Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on April 25, 2012, 06:14:PM
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I sent the original to Jeremy at HMP Full sutton in a large envelope with a short note explaining that this was the photograph I told him about which I found in an album whilst visiting Ewen Smith at his offices in Birmingham earlier in the day. I have previously said that I did not take a photograph of it which is true. What actually happened was that I removed the photograph from the album for the purpose of sending it to Jeremy. I stole it to send it to jeremy...
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I sent the original to Jeremy at HMP Full sutton in a large envelope with a short note explaining that this was the photograph I told him about which I found in an album whilst visiting Ewen Smith at his offices in Birmingham earlier in the day. I have previously said that I did not take a photograph of it which is true. What actually happened was that I removed the photograph from the album for the purpose of sending it to Jeremy. I stole it to send it to jeremy...
The photograph and note were sent to Jeremy at HMP Full Sutton, under special privilege, RULE 37A, Standing order SO 5B 32 (3)...
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Before I sent the photograph of Sheila on the bed to jeremy, under the aforementioned privileged rule, I had occasion to show the said photograph to a particular person who is a member of this forum. This took place when friends of mine were running the original, ` JeremyBamber.com', site, and the two people who ran that site were told about the existence of the photograph of Sheila on the bed...
I will not be identifying any of those three individuals by naming them, I merely draw everyones attention to the fact that the photograph of Sheila on the bed was shown to a member of this forum, prior to me sending it to Jeremy under the privilege rule...
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Other material which I sent under the privilege rule did not get received by jeremy - it was intercepted by prison authorities and placed on file in Jeremy's prison record...
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I believe the photograph of sheila on the bed is currently being held on Jeremy's Home office prison record...
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Other material which I sent under the privilege rule did not get received by jeremy - it was intercepted by prison authorities and placed on file in Jeremy's prison record...
this came to light after the occasion when I took the picture of Sheila on the bed from the album, and sent it to Jeremy under the privilege rule, and when Jeremy sacked Ewen Smith, and appointed GDS as his legal representative. Apparently, at that time some of the correspondence I had been sending to Jeremy under the privilege rule, was withheld by the prison, and not handed to Jeremy because they argued that he could not have letters and documents sent to him under the privilege rule from both me and GDS at the same time. Jeremy contacted me and told me to stop communicating with him by that privilege because it was effecting communications between himself and GDS who he had just appointed as his new legal representative? Jeremy told me that he had been called up to see the Governor about the contents of letters I had been sending him under the privilege rule (2004) and told that he would not be allowed them in his possession but that they would be kept on his prison file. For these reasons I feel certain that the photograph of Sheila on the bed which I sent to Jeremy in privileged communication is currently held on Jeremy's prison file...
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this came to light after the occasion when I took the picture of Sheila on the bed from the album, and sent it to Jeremy under the privilege rule, and when Jeremy sacked Ewen Smith, and appointed GDS as his legal representative. Apparently, at that time some of the correspondence I had been sending to Jeremy under the privilege rule, was withheld by the prison, and not handed to Jeremy because they argued that he could not have letters and documents sent to him under the privilege rule from both me and GDS at the same time. Jeremy contacted me and told me to stop communicating with him by that privilege because it was effecting communications between himself and GDS who he had just appointed as his new legal representative? Jeremy told me that he had been called up to see the Governor about the contents of letters I had been sending him under the privilege rule (2004) and told that he would not be allowed them in his possession but that they would be kept on his prison file. For these reasons I feel certain that the photograph of Sheila on the bed which I sent to Jeremy in privileged communication is currently held on Jeremy's prison file...
I have letters sent to me by Jeremy from this particular era and it becomes clear that Jeremy was very upset about the prospect that the prison authorities were threatening to stop any communications under the privilege rule (SO 5B 32 (3) between himself, and GDS...
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I have letters sent to me by Jeremy from this particular era and it becomes clear that Jeremy was very upset about the prospect that the prison authorities were threatening to stop any communications under the privilege rule (SO 5B 32 (3) between himself, and GDS...
What also becomes clear from his letters to me from that era, is that Jeremy was blaming me for it happening...
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What also becomes clear from his letters to me from that era, is that Jeremy was blaming me for it happening...
So...
from my point of view, the way I saw the situation was that it was alright for me to use the facility of the privileged rule to communicate with Jeremy when I was his McKensie man, but once he sacked Ewen Smith and appointed GDS, it was not?
I wrote to Jeremy, and told him that neither he, nor the prison authorities had notified me that I could no longer communicate with Jeremy under the privilege rule, and that it was unfair of Jeremy to be accusing me of preventing similar communications between himself, and GDS, under the same privilege rule, If I had not been told I no longer qualified. To be fair, it had been a considerable length of time since I had communicated with Jeremy by use of the privilege rule, mainly because of Ewen Smiths involvement (2003 / 2004) so when I sent the photograph of Sheila on the bed to Jeremy by way of that method, I had no way of knowing that to have done so would cause so much trouble...
The trouble I am talking about relates to my communications to Jeremy under the privilege rule, and similar communications between Jeremy and GDS from that era got stopped, or intercepted, and in some instances got ouyt on Jeremy's prison file...
I would also like to point out that around this time I wrote a letter to the Governor at HMP Full Sutton about the fact that communications I had been sending to Jeremy under the privilege rule had been intercepted and stopped, and that it was on prison / home office records that I had previously been entitled to communicate (under the privilege rule) with Jeremy from as long ago as 1990, when I had been approved as one of Jeremy Bambers official visitors, and his McKensie man?
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I also sent emails to Essex police headquarters (2004) mentioning the photograph of Sheila on the bed, and other matters, but they refused to enter into dialogue with me over the matter(s), choosing to say that such things could not be discussed in public because Mr Bamber (Jeremy) was in the process of submitting an application to the CCRC or trying to get his case sent back to the court of appeal, and therefore such information and issues were subjudici...
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So how can somebody get hold of that file now? And presumably you are still on good terms with the forum member if not with JB?
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............ and you didn't think to keep a copy!! :o
Literally unbelievable ::)
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Nick I was just talking about that (to myself it would appear) and I would most certainly have kept a copy outwith all the other missing documents as it was so important I would be terrified it would get lost.
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Nick I was just talking about that (to myself it would appear) and I would most certainly have kept a copy outwith all the other missing documents as it was so important I would be terrified it would get lost.
In Mike's defence, with previous convictions, you might be nervous about keeping a copy of something you have acquired illegally? ( please correct me Mike if I am wrong about the previous convictions, the only part of your history I know is from on here and I believe I read that is how you met JB
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I believe the photograph of sheila on the bed is currently being held on Jeremy's Home office prison record...
I'm not questioning your motives Mike. But you must have known about security at the prison and how they are hand in glove with the police? Were you not the slightest bit suspicious of this why didn't you rather send the photo to Jeremy's defence team? Not only that but having known that the first picture "got lost" why didn't you advice your informant rather than go to the CCRC with his picture, to go to Jeremy's defence team?
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In Mike's defence, with previous convictions, you might be nervous about keeping a copy of something you have acquired illegally? ( please correct me Mike if I am wrong about the previous convictions, the only part of your history I know is from on here and I believe I read that is how you met JB
Surely not if someones life (in prison) depended on it.
I'm sure Mike, if he ever had a copy in his possession, has the mental capacity to work out;
1) simply hide a copy (anywhere safe)!
2) keep a copy in a safely deposit box!
3) leave a copy with a trusted friend that he could get it from any time!
4) send a copy anonymously to!
a) JB's legal team (plus copy to CCRC)!
b) a newspaper!
c) ngb!
d) etc, etc,!!
This thread imo is ridiculous; and either set up for reactions (like mine), or to sucker more folk into this infamous photo subject.
As I've previously written - literally unbelievable !! - I will leave this thread now :P
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WOW..... what a thread.
So it would appear the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck is not being withheld under PII.
In fact, previous revelations by Mike detailed the alleged photograph was only 'seen' by Mike in Ewen Smith office when Mike was left alone with a photograph album that had been forwarded to Ewen Smith by Essex Police under confidentiality.
It now appears / or it has been revealed the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck was stolen from the offices of Ewen Smith only to then be 'lost' by sending the alleged photograph to Jeremy.
If I am not mistaken was it also revealed 'Z' has / had a copy of the alleged photograph that he hand delivered to the offices of the CCRC.
I wonder........... did 'Z' get a receipt for the hand delivery made given Mike's previous alleged experiences with such an alleged photograph disappearing when being handled via the apparently correct channels?
Does 'Z' still have a copy of the alleged photograph or did he hand over the only copy?
Of course I could be wrong and would welcome being corrected on any of the above.
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WOW..... what a thread.
So it would appear the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck is not being withheld under PII.
In fact, previous revelations by Mike detailed the alleged photograph was only 'seen' by Mike in Ewen Smith office when Mike was left alone with a photograph album that had been forwarded to Ewen Smith by Essex Police under confidentiality.
It now appears / or it has been revealed the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck was stolen from the offices of Ewen Smith only to then be 'lost' by sending the alleged photograph to Jeremy.
If I am not mistaken was it also revealed 'Z' has / had a copy of the alleged photograph that he hand delivered to the offices of the CCRC.
I wonder........... did 'Z' get a receipt for the hand delivery made given Mike's previous alleged experiences with such an alleged photograph disappearing when being handled via the apparently correct channels?
Does 'Z' still have a copy of the alleged photograph or did he hand over the only copy?
Of course I could be wrong and would welcome being corrected on any of the above.
Different photograph
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I believe Miek when he says there was a photo showing Sheila on the bed. Mike seems like an honest person.
However the one wound was because of the angle of the neck/photo.
I also beleive that it has been lost in the way he says.
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I'd have thought it would have been relatively easy to anonymously 'leak' to the picture to a newspaper.
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I'd have thought it would have been relatively easy to anonymously 'leak' to the picture to a newspaper.
the clock ticks...
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the clock ticks...
Don't let it tick too much longer!
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the clock ticks...
Sorry Mike, I saw the other thread 'Go for it Mike...' also, do you have some form of plan that we are not privy too? Have you managed to locate this photo? or is the other forum member ready to step forward?
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Utter dross. This photo mike,time to put up this as well as the many other times you've " threatened " to spill your exclusive beans...
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the clock ticks...
Yes Mike but we want the alarm to go off. ;)
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Talking about alarms. Can anyone tell me when the alarm was fitted at the farm? :D
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Why are you telling us this now, Mike?
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Why are you telling us this now, Mike?
I'm sure this is complete and utter rubbish. the twists and turns that the alledged photo have performed must be regarded as complete fabrication. If i'm wrong however the Photo will be posted on the forum. It wont of course,Mike will weave intrigue and suspense and you may fall under the spell of The Ringmaster. I may be a fucking idiot scumbag clown but i can still see the wood from the trees...
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I don't know what to think anymore Tony. Between this and the whole "June shot them" ridiculous (imo) theory... That's why I don't post on here much anymore.
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I don't know what to think anymore Tony. Between this and the whole "June shot them" ridiculous (imo) theory... That's why I don't post on here much anymore.
+1. It's getting more like "let's get some fiction to fit the facts".
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I'm still very much of the opinion that the whole case stinks to high heaven and I am more on the innocent side of the fence as it were than guilty, but some of the "theories" posted on here just make us look like a bunch of loonies. I tend to just go to the website and Simon Mckay via twitter to keep up with whats going on nowadays
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Where has Patti gone? Herv account has been deleted. I didn't know I was that ugly? :(
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Where has Patti gone? Herv account has been deleted. I didn't know I was that ugly? :(
She said she was leaving because she didn't like the tone of some things I believe but she put a smiley face so I thought it was a joke
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She said she was leaving because she didn't like the tone of some things I believe but she put a smiley face so I thought it was a joke
Oh, that is a shame. I really liked her posts. She seemed to bring a bit of common sense to the forum. Hope it weren't me what put the boot in? I'm a bit of a rebel sometimes.
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Oh, that is a shame. I really liked her posts. She seemed to bring a bit of common sense to the forum. Hope it weren't me what put the boot in? I'm a bit of a rebel sometimes.
I think it was in one of the threads yesterday with Mat, they got a little heated at times and sometimes personal
Re: The very best of luck to Jeremy
« Reply #379 on: Today at 07:19 PM »
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I'm a bit fed up of all this arguing. It's putting people off. I will refrain from posting until it stops..:)
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I think it was in one of the threads yesterday with Mat, they got a little heated at times and sometimes personal
Re: The very best of luck to Jeremy
« Reply #379 on: Today at 07:19 PM »
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I'm a bit fed up of all this arguing. It's putting people off. I will refrain from posting until it stops..:)
I see. I hope she comes back. We can do with more common sense posters here.
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I see. I hope she comes back. We can do with more common sense posters here.
agreed...
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I see. I hope she comes back. We can do with more common sense posters here.
and she was incredibly dedicated!
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Mike I am so angry I could spit!! I have been on this forum for over a year now and this has got to be one of the most insulting threads I have ever seen you start. Do you think we are all simpletons? You are not a nieve member of the public who has taken an interest in this case. You know exactly how the police/court/prison system works. You yourself have challenged the courts over your own conviction years BEFORE you met Bamber and got involved in his case. You expect us to believe you sent an original photograph, without keeping a copy, of a scene which could turn a lifers conviction on its head, to a cat A prisoner with a note and expected him to get it??!! You must think we are really stupid. I have believed in you all this time Mike but now I am seriously starting to question your honesty.
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Where has Patti gone? Herv account has been deleted. I didn't know I was that ugly? :(
Gutted!! Don't go Patti. Rise above all this sh*t and keep on sharing your knowledge/insight.
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Hi Neil I am gutted to hear Patti has gone I very nearly went myself last night as the forum seems to have lost was it is suppose to be about freeing Jeremy Bamber. It is not my nature to make quick decisions so I probably will still be hear forever Ha Ha.
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Rule 37A, standing oder SO 5B 32 (3), is supposed to relate to privileged communications between prisoners and those representing them. When I sent the photo of Sheila on the bed to jeremy it was the first time the prison authorities stopped and or intercepted anything...
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Rule 37A, standing oder SO 5B 32 (3), is supposed to relate to privileged communications between prisoners and those representing them. When I sent the photo of Sheila on the bed to jeremy it was the first time the prison authorities stopped and or intercepted anything...
Does that mean that it shouldn't have been opened/looked at and should have been secure then? Is there any reason why you did not take a copy? There are people here who do not believe you, clearly, I have no reason not to believe you and you may see no reason to justify your actions (and that is you prerogative) but you may help to dispel some of this if you clarify your reasons
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Hi Neil I am gutted to hear Patti has gone I very nearly went myself last night as the forum seems to have lost was it is suppose to be about freeing Jeremy Bamber. It is not my nature to make quick decisions so I probably will still be hear forever Ha Ha.
Stick with it Susan The forum gets that way sometimes. Now watch me annow the mods with this one. Please folks don't think I'm aiming this at anyone. ::)
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G - It's not a suggestion but I was just wondering, some of you guys have been here for a long time, clearly you know eachother either from here or in other ways but have any of you ever met up to sit down and thrash out some of the points of this case?
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G - It's not a suggestion but I was just wondering, some of you guys have been here for a long time, clearly you know eachother either from here or in other ways but have any of you ever met up to sit down and thrash out some of the points of this case?
Yes.
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Yes.
and was it productive?
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Mike I am so angry I could spit!! I have been on this forum for over a year now and this has got to be one of the most insulting threads I have ever seen you start. Do you think we are all simpletons? You are not a nieve member of the public who has taken an interest in this case. You know exactly how the police/court/prison system works. You yourself have challenged the courts over your own conviction years BEFORE you met Bamber and got involved in his case. You expect us to believe you sent an original photograph, without keeping a copy, of a scene which could turn a lifers conviction on its head, to a cat A prisoner with a note and expected him to get it??!! You must think we are really stupid. I have believed in you all this time Mike but now I am seriously starting to question your honesty.
Janet, I agree with you. I do not believe one word of this, and find it ingenuous.
I am not a patsy who will gobble up all that is posted.
Mike is a streetwise person who would never post the photo to Jeremy, without taking a copy. I will not be led by the nose on this. Mike is telling a massive fib, which helps no one. I have now slipped to 60-40 that Jeremy is innocent.
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and was it productive?
It was very interesting and I gained a lot of information from the discussion. I think that one BIG fault of the internet forum is that none of us know who each other are really like. So even if we get on with a certain person there is always an element of doubt in our minds about that person? We, whether we admit it or not always keep part of ourselves back from the rest of the members. And of course there is always that unknown element of "personality" which is very difficult to put across to other people.
So a personal meeting is always the best thing to do if it is possible of course? Even a phone call is helpful in this regard.
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Janet, I agree with you. I do not believe one word of this, and find it ingenuous.
I am not a patsy who will gobble up all that is posted.
Mike is a streetwise person who would never post the photo to Jeremy, without taking a copy. I will not be led by the nose on this. Mike is telling a massive fib, which helps no one. I have now slipped to 60-40 that Jeremy is innocent.
I feel I must stand with you and Janet on this one. If I possed such a picture and gave a copy of it to the CCRC and the CCRC said nothing about it. I would certainly have published it by now. In fact I would have flooded the internet with it and every known paper who would publish it.
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Hi Buddy I am sure Mike will have more than one copy of the said photo but for reasons not known to us he is keeping quiet about it just now. Mike is too street wise to let such a photo out of his possession without keeping copies and I really can,t see why he would make the story up what has he to gain.Perhaps I,m naive.
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Hi Buddy I am sure Mike will have more than one copy of the said photo but for reasons not known to us he is keeping quiet about it just now. Mike is too street wise to let such a photo out of his possession without keeping copies and I really can,t see why he would make the story up what has he to gain.Perhaps I,m naive.
I agree with this. It's a typical Mike ploy/test! I'm waiting to see what unravels.
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Hi Buddy I am sure Mike will have more than one copy of the said photo but for reasons not known to us he is keeping quiet about it just now. Mike is too street wise to let such a photo out of his possession without keeping copies and I really can,t see why he would make the story up what has he to gain.Perhaps I,m naive.
If so just post it, and i WILL KEEP MY GOB SHUT
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There are things you should all know about what really happened once I removed the the photo' of Sheila on the bed?
There are things you should all know about what was happening in the build up to the occasion I took the photograph, and sent it to Jeremy at HMP Full Sutton under the privilege rule of 37A...
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Mike is privilage rule 37A specific? only letters can be sent to the prisoner i.e nothing else ,this may explain the interception.
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Instead of dangling the carrot in front of our noses which you do so very often Mike why don't you stop playing games and just come out and say it?
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Hi Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi) - I totally agree with your post. :)
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Anything that can help jeremy needs to be coming out now not next year or year after, i will say jeremy could mount another case for appeal but after that thats it no more , time is of the essance.
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Anything that can help jeremy needs to be coming out now not next year or year after, i will say jeremy could mount another case for appeal but after that thats it no more , time is of the essance.
The only "essence" on this thread is good old country air....
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Hi mertol22 - I totally agree. :)
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There are things you should all know about what really happened once I removed the the photo' of Sheila on the bed...
I was at peril of being arrested for taking possession of the said photo of sheila on the bed, even though I did not take it with the intention of seeking to permanently deny a person of it. Trouble is, it was considred to be pii material, which was not supposed to exist. Ìf it did not exist, how could I be arrested? I therefore decided to send it to Jeremy for reasons I will expand upon in due course...
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I was at peril of being arrested for taking possession of the said photo of sheila on the bed, even though I did not take it with the intention of seeking to permanently deny a person of it. Trouble is, it was considered to be poi material, which was not supposed to exist. If it did not exist, how could I be arrested? I therefore decided to send it to Jeremy for reasons I will expand upon in due course...
Mike,IF this alledged photo exists AND you gained possession of it AND sent it to him in prison do you not see the reason he is still incarcerated? You seem to believe the photo on the bed will prove the case in his favor. i don't know, maybe I'm missing something....
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Anything that can help jeremy needs to be coming out now not next year or year after, i will say jeremy could mount another case for appeal but after that thats it no more , time is of the essance.
At this rate they'll be carrying him out in a body bag. If I was in his position I would probably go bananas by now. I would have been planning to escape by now by hook or by crook and fighting this thing on my terms instead of waiting for a bunch of old cronies deciding my fate for me.
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Mike,IF this alledged photo exists AND you gained possession of it AND sent it to him in prison do you not see the reason he is still incarcerated? You seem to believe the photo on the bed will prove the case in his favor. i don't know, maybe I'm missing something....
Well it would prove that the cops had moved the body and interfered with the crime scene when they have insisted that they didn't. Also "if" Sheila had only one bullet hole then it must be a photo that was taken "before" she was moved to the floor. Thus undermining the whole of the prosecution case. But of course it is all base on the illusive "IF"?
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Well it would prove that the cops had moved the body and interfered with the crime scene when they have insisted that they didn't. Also "if" Sheila had only one bullet hole then it must be a photo that was taken "before" she was moved to the floor. Thus undermining the whole of the prosecution case. But of course it is all base on the illusive "IF"?
And "IF" a body of experts, without agenda, can agree that it isn't just the position of the body, the light coming in from the wrong angle, etc.
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And "IF" a body of experts, without agenda, can agree that it isn't just the position of the body, the light coming in from the wrong angle, etc.
Persacerly. There seem to be too many "if's" in the equation?
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Not to mention the 'whys'. I'm still waiting to hear why a copy wasn't kept.
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Not to mention the 'whys'. I'm still waiting to hear why a copy wasn't kept.
Yes that would have appeared to be useful. If I was in possession of something that valuable I would put the original in a safe deposit box in the bank. But of course I am not Mike. And who know? He might have done so?
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Yes that would have appeared to be useful. If I was in possession of something that valuable I would put the original in a safe deposit box in the bank. But of course I am not Mike. And who know? He might have done so?
Its down to the rule mike said he used to send the image to jeremy, this privilage rule 37a, so if the prison intercepted and destroyed the image to them it does not exist, if rule 37a relates only letters can be sent unopened to contact mike about the image would prove it existed clearly what they dont want.
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Yes that would have appeared to be useful. If I was in possession of something that valuable I would put the original in a safe deposit box in the bank. But of course I am not Mike. And who know? He might have done so?
If I was jeremy and I found out he'd kept a copy of such a photo for all these years and not mentioned it I'd be pretty pissed off.
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Its down to the rule mike said he used to send the image to jeremy, this privilage rule 37a, so if the prison intercepted and destroyed the image to them it does not exist, if rule 37a relates only letters can be sent unopened to contact mike about the image would prove it existed clearly what they dont want.
".....clearly what they don't want" suggests, to me, the possibility that which ever experts hear whatever information, they have all been pre advised, from VERY high places, about their decision. I really believe that "they" can't afford to admit that "mistakes were made," the ramifications of doing so would be too costly on many levels.
One of the reasons I feel this so strongly is that whilst I've only recently joined this forum, I've been very impressed by some of the intelligent, well thought out arguements. I'm aware that good arguements don't add up to facts, but considering them could lead to a truth which has thus far remained hidden. Is anyone, at the highest level, hearing what is said here or are we being ignored because what we might reveal is "........clearly what they don't want".
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".....clearly what they don't want" suggests, to me, the possibility that which ever experts hear whatever information, they have all been pre advised, from VERY high places, about their decision. I really believe that "they" can't afford to admit that "mistakes were made," the ramifications of doing so would be too costly on many levels.
One of the reasons I feel this so strongly is that whilst I've only recently joined this forum, I've been very impressed by some of the intelligent, well thought out arguements. I'm aware that good arguements don't add up to facts, but considering them could lead to a truth which has thus far remained hidden. Is anyone, at the highest level, hearing what is said here or are we being ignored because what we might reveal is "........clearly what they don't want".
Most unlikely anyone in such a high place is viewing the forum as from where would they view it without anyone knowing also if they are nothing lasting has happened so far.
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".....clearly what they don't want" suggests, to me, the possibility that which ever experts hear whatever information, they have all been pre advised, from VERY high places, about their decision. I really believe that "they" can't afford to admit that "mistakes were made," the ramifications of doing so would be too costly on many levels.
One of the reasons I feel this so strongly is that whilst I've only recently joined this forum, I've been very impressed by some of the intelligent, well thought out arguements. I'm aware that good arguements don't add up to facts, but considering them could lead to a truth which has thus far remained hidden. Is anyone, at the highest level, hearing what is said here or are we being ignored because what we might reveal is "........clearly what they don't want".
What is key for me is that if these mistakes had been made, whatever they were and however bad, if he is in fact guilty why not just admit them to put an end to it all. Everybody makes mistakes, people often do the strangest and sickest things. So if there was horseplay, if they moved the bodies, if they had a training exercies etc etc, but JB killed the family, then why not just say so. A man crashed into my car the other day I know he did it because the evidence is there (matching dents, paint marks) but when confronted he said he didn't, I expected him to come round later and admit it. If he had I would have said, ok, fair enough, thanks for holding your hands up. The situation is infinitely more grave, the principle is the same! Unless of course they are hiding something.
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Well it would prove that the cops had moved the body and interfered with the crime scene when they have insisted that they didn't. Also "if" Sheila had only one bullet hole then it must be a photo that was taken "before" she was moved to the floor. Thus undermining the whole of the prosecution case. But of course it is all base on the illusive "IF"?
Based on the above, it is in fact Mike who by sending to the authorities the key defence evidence of SC on the bed prior to being moved (allegedly) that has caused tremendous harm to any appeals. Of course, I do not believe this for one moment,I'm sure there will be a classic "tesko twist" in the very near future.... ;)
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Based on the above, it is in fact Mike who by sending to the authorities the key defence evidence of SC on the bed prior to being moved (allegedly) that has caused tremendous harm to any appeals. Of course, I do not believe this for one moment,I'm sure there will be a classic "tesko twist" in the very near future.... ;)
Ah, the twist, I bet you all can't wait to hear the good news...
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Ah, the twist, I bet you all can't wait to hear the good news...
Exactly mike. The way you build to the crescendo is second to none.... ;
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Ah, the twist, I bet you all can't wait to hear the good news...
When you put it like that Mike, yes I'm on tip toe. What is the good news?
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Exactly mike. The way you build to the crescendo is second to none.... ;
Well, its good news ( I think) because the computer onto which the picture was copied, although an old system, is in storage and I may be able to recover the file in question...
I am taking advice...
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Well, its good news ( I think) because the computer onto which the picture was copied, although an old system, is in storage and I may be able to recover the file in question...
I am taking advice...
Wow! I never guessed on that twist I must admit?
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Well, its good news ( I think) because the computer onto which the picture was copied, although an old system, is in storage and I may be able to recover the file in question...
I am taking advice...
Before I sent the photograph to Jeremy at the beginning of 2004, I copied it onto one of my old computer which used a different operating system...
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Before I sent the photograph to Jeremy at the beginning of 2004, I copied it onto one of my old computer which used a different operating system...
It doesn't matter about the operating system Mike, but the format the picture was saved in.
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Before I sent the photograph to Jeremy at the beginning of 2004, I copied it onto one of my old computer which used a different operating system...
I currently have a computer which operates on windows 7...
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I currently have a computer which operates on windows 7...
Doesn't matter Mike. Just save the file to a memory stick.
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I currently have a computer which operates on windows 7...
doesnt matter. plug the old computor in the socket....
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I have had the disc removed and understand that I can purchase a lead so that I can play it on the new system?
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I have had the disc removed and understand that I can purchase a lead so tht I can play it on the new system?
mike,any 12 year old will get it working
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I have had the disc removed and understand that I can purchase a lead so tht I can play it on the new system?
Even broken hard drives you can still retrive the data, just copy all the data off it.
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i have some old notebooks running Windows , 2000 ME all the data is still there.
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i have some old notebooks running Windows , 2000 ME all the data is still there.
bet it's on DOS.
not a problem,ive a dos machine i'm sure we can use...
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Windows 98?
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Windows 98?
Windows ME?
Windows XP?
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Windows ME?
Windows XP?
Currently using windows 7...
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Currently using windows 7...
Mike,my brother works at intel in Seattle. he'll know someone in the uk that will assist you.
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Mike,my brother works at intel in Seattle. he'll know someone in the uk that will assist you.
I'm going out with the family this evening but PM me your email and I'm sure he'll assist
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I'm going out with the family this evening but PM me your email and I'm sure he'll assist
Checked with the brother. Data migration wizard on windows 7 will assist your efforts with the transfer of data on all previous window applications. No bother at all Mike
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Mike,my brother works at intel in Seattle. he'll know someone in the uk that will assist you.
Towards the back end of 2003 and the beginning of 2004, the relationship between Jeremy and self was somewhat strained because I was in regular communication with Ewen Smith and Jeremy wanted to be in control of everything himself. This resulted in me copying every letter and document I sent to Jeremy by using a scanner and I saved everything on the computer I was using at the time. I copied everything, I sent and received from Jeremy, it is all on the old drive in one of my old computers, I have removed them and they are in storage. I was led to believe that I could purchase some sort of a lead which I could them connect to my current computer via USB and access all the material. Does anyone know what lead I need to purchase, and how much it will cost?
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Towards the back end of 2003 and the beginning of 2004, the relationship between Jeremy and self was somewhat strained because I was in regular communication with Ewen Smith and Jeremy wanted to be in control of everything himself. This resulted in me copying every letter and document I sent to Jeremy by using a scanner and I saved everything on the computer I was using at the time. I copied everything, I sent and received from Jeremy, it is all on the old drive in one of my old computers, I have removed them and they are in storage. I was led to believe that I could purchase some sort of a lead which I could them connect to my current computer via USB and access all the material. Does anyone know what lead I need to purchase, and how much it will cost?
Mike,
You need one of these:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-SATA-IDE-CABLE-ADAPTER/dp/B003Q97FIW/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1335723638&sr=8-7
Some of the reviews show that people have had problems with this model, but I have one and it works fine.
Alternatively, you could spend twice as much on one that seems to have better reviews:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/IOMAX-SATA-Adapter-Power-Drive/dp/B001A5SK56/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335723638&sr=8-1
If you need more advice let me know.
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Mike, I fully believe that not only could a picture exist but that you've seen it and have had it in in your possesion, I just wish people here were willing to let you have time to prove it before they start with their silly remarks against you...........out of curiosity of this picture. Am I describing it perfectly?
Sheila is laid on the bed as a normal person would sleep, head on the pillow but on top of the covers.
The person who took the photo was stood where Sheila was actually found
You can see her legs, slightly, but not her feet.
Both arms are down by her sides.
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I TOLD YOU SO !!! NONE OF YOU BELIEVED ME !!! YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT MIGHT TURN UP !!! JUST LIKE STAN WORTH AND HIS GUN THEORY !! YEARS BEFORE THE AMERICAN !! YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING !! AND WHY HAVEN'T JB LEGAL TEAM USED THEM? I KEEP TELLING YOU... JB CAN ONLY APPEAL ON THE EVIDENCE USED IN COURT AGAINST HIM THAT GOT HIM A GUILTY VERDICT !!! NO ONE CAN CHANGE THAT !! IT'S A FACT !! IT WILL MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IF THE PHOTO IS CIRCULATED, BUT WILL IT BE?
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JB CAN ONLY APPEAL ON THE EVIDENCE USED IN COURT AGAINST HIM THAT GOT HIM A GUILTY VERDICT !
I may be misunderstanding you, but that isn't correct. He has to have new evidence to be able to appeal.
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Mike, I fully believe that not only could a picture exist but that you've seen it and have had it in in your possesion, I just wish people here were willing to let you have time to prove it before they start with their silly remarks against you...........out of curiosity of this picture. Am I describing it perfectly?
Sheila is laid on the bed as a normal person would sleep, head on the pillow but on top of the covers.
The person who took the photo was stood where Sheila was actually found
You can see her legs, slightly, but not her feet.
Both arms are down by her sides.
It doesnt sound like the same photo?The photo Mike has described has the photographer standing at the foot of the bed.
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Well yeah, but not directly in the mdidle at all, certianly more towards the window by about 70%
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Mike, I fully believe that not only could a picture exist but that you've seen it and have had it in in your possesion, I just wish people here were willing to let you have time to prove it before they start with their silly remarks against you...........out of curiosity of this picture. Am I describing it perfectly?
Sheila is laid on the bed as a normal person would sleep, head on the pillow but on top of the covers.
The person who took the photo was stood where Sheila was actually found
You can see her legs, slightly, but not her feet.
Both arms are down by her sides.
Mat - you clearly do it on purpose but you have an admirable knack of being intriguing! Keep it up, you have started/been part of some very interesting discussions. I won't even bother asking where you may have seen this photo as I don't expect an answer
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Mat........have you seen the photograph of Sheila on the bed?
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Mat - you clearly do it on purpose but you have an admirable knack of being intriguing! Keep it up, you have started/been part of some very interesting discussions. I won't even bother asking where you may have seen this photo as I don't expect an answer
Thanks, I think that people distrust me so instantly that the best way to win them over is to do it person by person. I'm sure my description is enough to make Mike think ".....wait a minute"
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If you were stood at the end of the bed the window would be behind you wouldn't it?
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I TOLD YOU SO !!! NONE OF YOU BELIEVED ME !!! YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT MIGHT TURN UP !!! JUST LIKE STAN WORTH AND HIS GUN THEORY !! YEARS BEFORE THE AMERICAN !! YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING !! AND WHY HAVEN'T JB LEGAL TEAM USED THEM? I KEEP TELLING YOU... JB CAN ONLY APPEAL ON THE EVIDENCE USED IN COURT AGAINST HIM THAT GOT HIM A GUILTY VERDICT !!! NO ONE CAN CHANGE THAT !! IT'S A FACT !! IT WILL MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IF THE PHOTO IS CIRCULATED, BUT WILL IT BE?
What did you say? ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Doleyglassback..........have you seen the alleged photograph?
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I'm starting to think I'm the only one who hasn't.
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Thanks, I think that people distrust me so instantly that the best way to win them over is to do it person by person. I'm sure my description is enough to make Mike think ".....wait a minute"
Who are you winning over?!
Mike has more savvy than that.
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Mike is a very smart man. He knows when he is being bullshitted and when he isn't. He knows when to listen and when to ignore.
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I'm starting to think I'm the only one who hasn't.
I dont think that anyone else has seen it Bridget.Those that seem to be claiming that they have, appear to be missing something significant when describing the photograph.
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Doleyglassback..........have you seen the alleged photograph?
yes I have. When I came on here people didn't believe me..but now Mike as come out and told you.. Sheila is laid on the bed in her nightie, the shot was taken at the foot of the bed...but Mike could put it on here, and show you..it still won't make a difference because it wasn't used in his case.
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yes I have. When I came on here people didn't believe me..but now Mike as come out and told you.. Sheila is laid on the bed in her nightie, the shot was taken at the foot of the bed...but Mike could put it on here, and show you..it still won't make a difference because it wasn't used in his case.
Can you tell us what else was "significant" about the photograph?
Did anything "stand out" to you as being a little strange?
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yes I have. When I came on here people didn't believe me..but now Mike as come out and told you.. Sheila is laid on the bed in her nightie, the shot was taken at the foot of the bed...but Mike could put it on here, and show you..it still won't make a difference because it wasn't used in his case.
Well, hello, you've just got my attention.
Tell me. Which was is she facing?
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which way*
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Well, hello, you've just got my attention.
Tell me. Which was is she facing?
Thought you knew...
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You're obviously failing to figure out why I am asking.
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yes I have. When I came on here people didn't believe me..but now Mike as come out and told you.. Sheila is laid on the bed in her nightie, the shot was taken at the foot of the bed...but Mike could put it on here, and show you..it still won't make a difference because it wasn't used in his case.
But it could change public opinion if it was exposed?
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I'm starting to think I'm the only one who hasn't.
[/quot
Me too! :D
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Hang on a minute. Isn't this fresh evidence?
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yes I have. When I came on here people didn't believe me..but now Mike as come out and told you.. Sheila is laid on the bed in her nightie, the shot was taken at the foot of the bed...but Mike could put it on here, and show you..it still won't make a difference because it wasn't used in his case.
Mike has stated that he has also shown it to another member of the forum but that he doesn't wish to name them, which is fine, it would however help if they came forward.
HMEssex - I think Mat may be suggesting that he has won me over although I was never 'against' him or anybody. I quite liked Hartley too beofe he left but because, without a sound board for arguements, I think a lot of it is specualtion and going around in circles.
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Hang on a minute. Isn't this fresh evidence?
What has been suggested is that he can only appeal on the evidence he was convicted on but this has also been dsputed and I don't think there has been any concrete clarification. Personally (and I am probably wrong) I believe that if this information was withheld at the time under the dreaded PII business he may have grounds to appeal as it would have obstructed his team from preparing a true and proper defence (but I do not know this and am speculating using limited knowledge)
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Can you tell us what else was "significant" about the photograph?
Did anything "stand out" to you as being a little strange?
THE PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BED.. IT WAS SHOT THROUGH THE FOOT BOARD, SO YOU CAN SEE THE GAPS IN THE FOOT BOARD.. SHEILA BLESS HER IS LAID ON THE BED, HER NIGHTIE WAS RAISED UP, SHE WASN'T WEARING UNDERWEAR, A BIT PORNOGRAPHIC..IF MIKE IS READING THIS ...WHY DON'T YOU JUST PUT IT ON? I'M SURE YOU CAN RETRIEVE IT!DON'T KNOW WHY IT HASN'T BEEN PUT ON HERE OR RELEASED TO THE PAPERS BEFORE NOW, IT WON'T HELP HIM...BUT IT WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC'S EYES FURTHER TO THE CORRUPTION THAT CAN LIE WITHIN SOME CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS... THE WHOLE NATION AS A RIGHT TO KNOW!!!
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You've now just lost my interest.
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What has been suggested is that he can only appeal on the evidence he was convicted on but this has also been dsputed and I don't think there has been any concrete clarification. Personally (and I am probably wrong) I believe that if this information was withheld at the time under the dreaded PII business he may have grounds to appeal as it would have obstructed his team from preparing a true and proper defence (but I do not know this and am speculating using limited knowledge)
J
Hi ajross. I must admit I had not believed that the photo existed, but now someone on the forum have said they have seen it.
I don't understand all the legalities ajross...it just goes whoosh to me. But, if I had such a photo, I would make sure everyone knew about it, for it shows the jury were deprived of a photo, that could have swayed them into believing that Shelia's body was a staged picture that the CPS had shown them.....
Ha! I think I will have a tipple....lol :)
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Mike has stated that he has also shown it to another member of the forum but that he doesn't wish to name them, which is fine, it would however help if they came forward.
HMEssex - I think Mat may be suggesting that he has won me over although I was never 'against' him or anybody. I quite liked Hartley too beofe he left but because, without a sound board for arguements, I think a lot of it is specualtion and going around in circles.
That's fair enough, and I agree we need soundboards for discussions etc., but I found his post last night re JM rather 'creepy'.
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That's fair enough, and I agree we need soundboards for discussions etc., but I found his post last night re JM rather 'creepy'.
You must have mis-interpreted it then.
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Doley has it completely backwards. Evidence used as grounds for appeal must be new evidence.
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You've now just lost my interest.
He described it as it was previously described by Mike.
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The none panties may be true. But THAT being visible in the photograph...isn't. Mark my words, if Mike ever posts the photograph.......or anyone does and it is published online/in the papers it won't be crude like that.
Maybe Mike siad that so he had an excuse to not post it on the forum - but really there was another reason why he didn't want to post it at that time.
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He described it as it was previously described by Mike.
Perhaps he has just read Mike's posts.
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You must have mis-interpreted it then.
Mat, it was the way you worded it.
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That's fair enough, and I agree we need soundboards for discussions etc., but I found his post last night re JM rather 'creepy'.
I'm not sure I saw it, sorry. There has been some lamentable behaviour on the part of several members but it seems par for the course unfortnately. If people could have these debates without that I think that it would be a lot more productive
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Doley has it completely backwards. Evidence used as grounds for appeal must be new evidence.
Thank you Bridget! :)
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Doley has it completely backwards. Evidence used as grounds for appeal must be new evidence.
HOLD ON A MINUTE!!!! NO I HAVEN'T GOT IT BACKWARDS!!!!THAT PHOTOGRAPH WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THE TRIAL...IT IS NOT NEW EVIDENCE!! BECAUSE IT WASN'T USED IS A DIFFERENT MATTER, BUT IT STILL WONT GET JB OUT..HE KNOWS IT AND SO DO HIS LEGAL TEAM!NONE OF US LIKE MISCARRIAGES OF JUSTICE..BUT SADLY WE ALL HAVE A GOOD IDEA HOW THE LEGAL SYSTEM WORKS..I DON.T BELIEVE THERE IS A PERSON ALIVE WOULD WANT ANYONE WHO IS INNOCENT BEHIND BARS..IF THIS PHOTOGRAPH COULD HAVE HELPED IT WOULD HAVE BEEN USED BY NOW!
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I said that I have a desire to speak to JM and that if anyone could put me in touch with her, or at least get her to reply to an email I'd appreciate it.
Maybe that came across 'creepy'.
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HOLD ON A MINUTE!!!! NO I HAVEN'T GOT IT BACKWARDS!!!!THAT PHOTOGRAPH WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THE TRIAL...IT IS NOT NEW EVIDENCE!! BECAUSE IT WASN'T USED IS A DIFFERENT MATTER, BUT IT STILL WONT GET JB OUT..HE KNOWS IT AND SO DO HIS LEGAL TEAM!NONE OF US LIKE MISCARRIAGES OF JUSTICE..BUT SADLY WE ALL HAVE A GOOD IDEA HOW THE LEGAL SYSTEM WORKS..I DON.T BELIEVE THERE IS A PERSON ALIVE WOULD WANT ANYONE WHO IS INNOCENT BEHIND BARS..IF THIS PHOTOGRAPH COULD HAVE HELPED IT WOULD HAVE BEEN USED BY NOW!
Turn the caps off.
It wasn't available to the defence, was it.
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The none panties may be true. But THAT being visible in the photograph...isn't. Mark my words, if Mike ever posts the photograph.......or anyone does and it is published online/in the papers it won't be crude like that.
Maybe Mike siad that so he had an excuse to not post it on the forum - but really there was another reason why he didn't want to post it at that time.
SO YOU WHO SAYS IT'S NOT TRUE...HAVE YOU SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPH? I HAVE! WHY SHOULD ANYONE LISTEN TO YOU? DON'T SPEAK ABOUT SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! I KNOW WHAT I SAW!!!YOU OR ANYONE CAN NOT TELL ME DIFFERENT!
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Turn the caps off.
It wasn't available to the defence, was it.
WASN'T IT?
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SO YOU WHO SAYS IT'S NOT TRUE...HAVE YOU SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPH? I HAVE! WHY SHOULD ANYONE LISTEN TO YOU? DON'T SPEAK ABOUT SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! I KNOW WHAT I SAW!!!YOU OR ANYONE CAN NOT TELL ME DIFFERENT!
Oh, trust me. I can certianly tell you different. I beleive you to be lying and what you have done is read Mike's posts and copied.
I believe Mike made up the panties story as an excuse to hold off on posting the picture for a little while... understandable.
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I said that I have a desire to speak to JM and that if anyone could put me in touch with her, or at least get her to reply to an email I'd appreciate it.
Maybe that came across 'creepy'.
This is what you said:
If anyone here has a direct line to Mugford then you're more than welcome to tell her to actually reply to me, or anyone else who has contacted her on my behalf. Feel free to tell her what I've told you. About the anoymous phone call made from 65246.
I'm sure you'll peak her interest. I'm DESPERATE for contact with her.
Why would we have direct line to JM?! And why would she reply to you? Contact her yourself if you're so DESPERATE.
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Well you never know who is reading these forums. Someone who knows the family, knows the police who worked the case or knows Mugford could indeed check out these forums.
It's not likely but there is a chance.
And I threw in the numbers so that someone may tell her if they did contact her so that she knows I am not some nutter wanting to slate her for her evidence.
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Oh, trust me. I can certianly tell you different. I beleive you to be lying and what you have done is read Mike's posts and copied.
I believe Mike made up the panties story as an excuse to hold off on posting the picture for a little while... understandable.
GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE!!! JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT MAKES ANYTHING THAT ANYONE ELSE AS SEEN AS LIES? ABOUT TIME YOU TOOK A CHILL PILL !! YOU TALK ABSOLUTE CRAP !!
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By keep on saying that I haven't seen it, are you trying to make me say if I have?
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Well you never know who is reading these forums. Someone who knows the family, knows the police who worked the case or knows Mugford could indeed check out these forums.
It's not likely but there is a chance.
And I threw in the numbers so that someone may tell her if they did contact her so that she knows I am not some nutter wanting to slate her for her evidence.
Yeah right!
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By keep on saying that I haven't seen it, are you trying to make me say if I have?
I'M TELLING YOU THAT YOU DON'T HAVE MY EYES !! YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THROUGH THEM... BUT YOU THINK YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT I SAW..SORRY OTHER MUPPET'S MIGHT TAKE THAT SORT OF TALK FROM YOU BUT I WON'T. DON'T TELL ME SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!! THAT'S WHAT I'M TELLING YOU..WHY HAVE YOU SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPH? IS THAT WHY YOUR SO RUDE? BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONLY YOU THAT'S SEEN IT? I CAN SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND I'VE SEEN IT!!
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Yeah right!
I made that VERY clear at the time. Maybe you should try and get an understanding of who everyone is before you doubt so easily.
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This is what you said:
If anyone here has a direct line to Mugford then you're more than welcome to tell her to actually reply to me, or anyone else who has contacted her on my behalf. Feel free to tell her what I've told you. About the anoymous phone call made from 65246.
I'm sure you'll peak her interest. I'm DESPERATE for contact with her.
Why would we have direct line to JM?! And why would she reply to you? Contact her yourself if you're so DESPERATE.
Oh yeah, I did read that and I did think it was a little strangely worded
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Mat - so for what reason can you not just go over there and confront her? I am no doubt being ignorant but if you are so desperate then she is easy to find!
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Well
She lives in Canada.
She doesn't answer emails.
If anyone steps foot on her property.. she calls the police.
I'd lose my job if I got messed up in that and am not one to just walk onto someones property. Don't think anyone should.
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I SUPPOSE I HAVEN'T SEEN THE STATEMENT THAT WAS GOT FROM THE MAN ON THE LANE AS WELL? OH SORRY ONLY YOU CAN SAY WHAT I SAW!!! :o
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J
Hi ajross. I must admit I had not believed that the photo existed, but now someone on the forum have said they have seen it.
I don't understand all the legalities ajross...it just goes whoosh to me. But, if I had such a photo, I would make sure everyone knew about it, for it shows the jury were deprived of a photo, that could have swayed them into believing that Shelia's body was a staged picture that the CPS had shown them.....
Ha! I think I will have a tipple....lol :)
Hi Patti. Who on the forum have said they've seen it?
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I'm not trying to argue with you as I don't see the point but you have alluded several times to people prepared to pay lots of money for her contact, why don't they find her and go over there, why has it been left to you to post on a forum to try and make contact?
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Well
She lives in Canada.
She doesn't answer emails.
If anyone steps foot on her property.. she calls the police.
I'd lose my job if I got messed up in that and am not one to just walk onto someones property. Don't think anyone should.
Wow! I wonder how the postman gets on? ???
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Hi Patti. Who on the forum have said they've seen it?
Doleyglassback has seen it and from Mat's posts I think it has been assumed that he has
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I'M TELLING YOU THAT YOU DON'T HAVE MY EYES !! YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THROUGH THEM... BUT YOU THINK YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT I SAW..SORRY OTHER MUPPET'S MIGHT TAKE THAT SORT OF TALK FROM YOU BUT I WON'T. DON'T TELL ME SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!! THAT'S WHAT I'M TELLING YOU..WHY HAVE YOU SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPH? IS THAT WHY YOUR SO RUDE? BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONLY YOU THAT'S SEEN IT? I CAN SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND I'VE SEEN IT!!
Doley, I'm not doubting you. Mat makes some interesting suggestions as reasons for things. His and your own contribution to the forum are certainly food for thought. There's a few different clashes between posters running on here at the moment. :D
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Hi Patti. Who on the forum have said they've seen it?
Doleyglassback G......Or is he/she kidding? :)
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It certainly is very lively, I'm struggling to keep up with Homeland!
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Doleyglassback has seen it and from Mat's posts I think it has been assumed that he has
In that case Doley must have seen Mike's one, and Mat has seen Z's one. Differences explained..
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In that case Doley must have seen Mike's one, and Mat has seen Z's one. Differences explained..
:)
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totally fed up to be honest. :(
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In that case Doley must have seen Mike's one, and Mat has seen Z's one. Differences explained..
;D ;D
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totally fed up to be honest. :(
awww... put your tin foil hat on and join in the fun..
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I'm going dizzy here!...Is there two photographs now? I'm confused. :)
-
Well
She lives in Canada.
She doesn't answer emails.
If anyone steps foot on her property.. she calls the police.
I'd lose my job if I got messed up in that and am not one to just walk onto someones property. Don't think anyone should.
So you just make anonymous phone calls?
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Wow! I wonder how the postman gets on? ???
;D
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So you just make anonymous phone calls?
What business do you think I am in? Calling an unlisted number. You can't hound people.
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I'm going dizzy here!...Is there two photographs now? I'm confused. :)
Well according to Mike he saw one photograph in Ewen thingamebob's office of Sheila on the bed. And he also says that his informant Zorro...er I mean Z has shown him another photo of Sheila on the bed which is different from the one he had seen. I think that's how the story goes?
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I'm going dizzy here!...Is there two photographs now? I'm confused. :)
If memory serves, yes. The one Mike saw (stole) at Ewen Smiths office, which I think had two wounds to the neck but no blood running from the mouth and her nightie was lifted, and the one Z showed him in the woods, and which Z later handed in to the CCRC, and which had only one wound to the neck (not sure of the nightie status). I think.
Or what G said.
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I have had the disc removed . . .
- Removed from what type of computer . . . laptop, desktop, or what?
- How long ago was it removed?
- What was it stored in after removal?
-
What a farce this thread is!
Has nobody else worked out the identity of "Doleyglassback"?
-
Who is it?
-
- Removed from what type of computer . . . laptop, desktop, or what?
- How long ago was it removed?
- What was it stored in after removal?
Doesn't matter. The data is very easily extracted. Unless its cinders of course....
-
What business do you think I am in? Calling an unlisted number. You can't hound people.
BT do! lol
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What a farce this thread is!
Has nobody else worked out the identity of "Doleyglassback"?
Who is Doleyglassback? Other than somebody that shouts a lot it would appear! :)
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Well according to Mike he saw one photograph in Ewen thingamebob's office of Sheila on the bed. And he also says that his informant Zorro...er I mean Z has shown him another photo of Sheila on the bed which is different from the one he had seen. I think that's how the story goes?
Thank You G.....I think I am with it now. :)
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What a farce this thread is!
Has nobody else worked out the identity of "Doleyglassback"?
I know who I think it is.
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If memory serves, yes. The one Mike saw (stole) at Ewen Smiths office, which I think had two wounds to the neck but no blood running from the mouth and her nightie was lifted, and the one Z showed him in the woods, and which Z later handed in to the CCRC, and which had only one wound to the neck (not sure of the nightie status). I think.
Or what G said.
Hi Bridget......Could the shots be from a mortuary or was the bed identified? Cor Blimey! It's like b.......ing crime watch...on here...lol :D
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What a farce this thread is!
Has nobody else worked out the identity of "Doleyglassback"?
Well I know our cousins elswhere will say it's Mike Tesko. They think everyone is Mike Tesko.
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I know who I think it is.
Do tell... ;D
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Hi Bridget......Could the shots be from a mortuary or was the bed identified? Cor Blimey! It's like b.......ing crime watch...on here...lol :D
Both were described as on the bed. But I haven't seen them..
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Well I know our cousins elswhere will say it's Mike Tesko. They think everyone is Mike Tesko.
I've been accused of being Anne Eaton, Hartley. Andrea....and a few more. Not Mike Tesko...........YET!
What happened to Andrea by the way.
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Well I know our cousins elswhere will say it's Mike Tesko. They think everyone is Mike Tesko.
Hmm, I did think that when the question was asked! Why would he do that though? I think that sort of behaviour might undermine Mike a little
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Do tell... ;D
Mike. Sorry Roch.
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I've been accused of being Anne Eaton, Hartley. Andrea....and a few more. Not Mike Tesko...........YET!
What happened to Andrea by the way.
Not you, Doley.
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Hi Bridget......Could the shots be from a mortuary or was the bed identified? Cor Blimey! It's like b.......ing crime watch...on here...lol :D
From what i've read on here they were in the bedroom. Mike seems to say that there is one on the bed, Mat says that there is but there is only one bullet wound visible (although there are two bullet wounds) it also transpires that there is another photo altogether which Mat and Doleyglasback have been arguing about. I'm a little lost!
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From what i've read on here they were in the bedroom. Mike seems to say that there is one on the bed, Mat says that there is but there is only one bullet wound visible (although there are two bullet wounds) it also transpires that there is another photo altogether which Mat and Doleyglasback have been arguing about. I'm a little lost!
One wound visibile with the second obscured because of angle. Yes.
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Mike. Sorry Roch.
It crossed my mind a few times... Honest!
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It crossed my mind a few times... Honest!
Why doesn't that surprise me ;)
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Can anyone tell me on here or via PM what happeend to Andrea? I remember my first stint here she messaged me, seemed nice... a little dim but harmless and very friendly.
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Hmm, I did think that when the question was asked! Why would he do that though? I think that sort of behaviour might undermine Mike a little
It would / has to a certain extent (the infamous Ali Bongo incident / Z).
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Can anyone tell me on here or via PM what happeend to Andrea? I remember my first stint here she messaged me, seemed nice... very friendly.
Andrea reads this forum Mat.
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I don't know the Ali Bongo/ Z incident. When I first saw Doley appear I actually thought it was a troll! (Which was a concept I knew nothing about before joining this forum a month ago!)
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Andrea reads this forum Mat.
But why does she not post
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From what i've read on here they were in the bedroom. Mike seems to say that there is one on the bed, Mat says that there is but there is only one bullet wound visible (although there are two bullet wounds) it also transpires that there is another photo altogether which Mat and Doleyglasback have been arguing about. I'm a little lost!
Hi ajross, I'm still not convinced about these photo's until I see them...First there was one, but that got lost, now there is two....soon there will be three and then they will be lost again. :D :D
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But why does she not post
Andrea's account was closed. Andrea informed me she had been banned. There was some disharmony, which in my personal opinion was exploited to good effect by a certain other forum owner. It's a bit complex to explain.
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What happened to Andrea by the way.
She left to go to the "other" forum and now enjoys the sick jokes over there.
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Alright, thanks for the info guys.
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One wound visibile with the second obscured because of angle. Yes.
How can you make that assumption if you haven't even seen it? I believe Dr. Craig the police surgeon said that she only had one wound to her neck?
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Hi ajross, I'm still not convinced about these photo's until I see them...First there was one, but that got lost, now there is two....soon there will be three and then they will be lost again. :D :D
Well Mike has one locked in a computer somewhere and I for one would be very pleased for somebody to tell me that they have seen it and for me to believe them, although the way this forum goes some times I'm not sure who I would believe! I do wonder if this forum is just me and one other person, sat at home, pretending to a couple of dozen characters. ;D
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Andrea's account was closed. Andrea informed me she had been banned. There was some disharmony, which in my personal opinion was exploited to good effect by a certain other forum owner. It's a bit complex to explain.
Andrea was not banned. She closed her account. When someone closes their account you cannot ban them.
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Hi ajross, I'm still not convinced about these photo's until I see them...First there was one, but that got lost, now there is two....soon there will be three and then they will be lost again. :D :D
Its something that needs to be established as soon as possible Patti because every second that jeremy remains in jail will seem like an eternity, if i owned such a photo copies would be made then off to see a editor of a big paper no money for it either im no mugford i want the truth and i want it now.
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Andrea was not banned. She closed her account. When someone closes their account you cannot ban them.
That's what I thought but she thinks she was banned. Unless she is referring to a temporary ban, prior to her account closing?
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Andrea was not banned. She closed her account. When someone closes their account you cannot ban them.
I think I just had deja vu, or did somebody post exactly the same yesterday? I'm sure that was the first post I saw when I logged on this eve
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Well Mike has one locked in a computer somewhere and I for one would be very pleased for somebody to tell me that they have seen it and for me to believe them, although the way this forum goes some times I'm not sure who I would believe! I do wonder if this forum is just me and one other person, sat at home, pretending to a couple of dozen characters. ;D
Lol..........there is only two of you? Godstrewth!!....I think I will join he Legion. :) :) :)
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I think I just had deja vu, or did somebody post exactly the same yesterday? I'm sure that was the forst post I saw when I logged on this eve
Well the date is on the post. But I don't think I posted it before? Shouldn't be surprised though I do repeat myself sometimes. Shouldn't be surprised though I do repeat myself sometimes.
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How can you make that assumption if you haven't even seen it? I believe Dr. Craig the police surgeon said that she only had one wound to her neck?
He only mentioned one, but then he only mentioned one on June and a couple on Ralph, and one or two on the boys. Don't quote me on the numbers, I haven't read his statement for a while, but he certainly wasn't doing a 'shot count'.
Well Mike has one locked in a computer somewhere and I for one would be very pleased for somebody to tell me that they have seen it and for me to believe them, although the way this forum goes some times I'm not sure who I would believe! I do wonder if this forum is just me and one other person, sat at home, pretending to a couple of dozen characters. ;D
Yep, just you and me and all of our imaginary friends :D
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Well the date is on the post. But I don't think I posted it before? Shouldn't be surprised though I do repeat myself sometimes. Shouldn't be surprised though I do repeat myself sometimes.
;D I think it was about another member maybe but it stated that you can't be banned, or I am finally going mad!!!
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He only mentioned one, but then he only mentioned one on June and a couple on Ralph, and one or two on the boys. Don't quote me on the numbers, I haven't read his statement for a while, but he certainly wasn't doing a 'shot count'.
Perhaps he lost count? He was an alcoholic after all. He was my doctor and he wasn't very good.
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Perhaps he lost count? He was an alcoholic after all. He was my doctor and he wasn't very good.
Well there you go then!
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;D I think it was about another member maybe but it stated that you can't be banned, or I am finally going mad!!!
True nervous very nervous it must be the eye ! perhaps we have all been watching the classic Tell Tale Heart short on youtube! but why would you call me mad...
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I can't believe this thread! what utter nonsense! A man who's dedicated the last God knows how many years trying to prove Bamber didn't do it, steals a photograph which has never been in the defence's domain before and then doesn't give it to Simon Mckay? Sends it by post? Doesn't send it electronically to someone? Come on people!!
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I can't believe this thread! what utter nonsense! A man who's dedicated the last God knows how many years trying to prove Bamber didn't do, steals a photograph which has never been in the defence's domain before and then doesn't give it to Simon Mckay? Sends it by post? Doesn't send it electronically to someone? Come on people!!
you aint seen nothing yet
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I can't believe this thread! what utter nonsense! A man who's dedicated the last God knows how many years trying to prove Bamber didn't do, steals a photograph which has never been in the defence's domain before and then doesn't give it to Simon Mckay? Sends it by post? Doesn't send it electronically to someone? Come on people!!
Isn't he saying he stored electronically? I agree though, it would be given to Simon McKay without doubt, if it existed.
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Is that the route you would have taken? Simon McKay?
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a picture of such importance that it 'might' be stored on an old computer somewhere?
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Time will tell as long as its there its quality will be constant ready to make copies.
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Is that the route you would have taken? Simon McKay?
wouldn't you in that situation? He's the boss right now, he's the guy with the freedom to decide what to do with it.
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Is that the route you would have taken? Simon McKay?
Would you have taken it to The Guardian?
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Time will tell as long as its there its quality will be constant ready to make copies.
Time will tell? I would respectfully suggest that now would be a good time!!
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Would you have taken it to The Guardian?
No, I don't like the Guardian all that much. I would have hired my own solicitor and put him in touch with Bamber.
But the photograph wouldn't get him outta the jail any way.
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Mat. If I was in Mike's situation I would have anonomously sent this photo to everyone with even a slight interest in the case. I would have shouted it from the roof tops.
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and, if it was PII then it's still PII now, so why suddenly admit to breaking the law, telling us where it's stored and risking arrest?
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But the photograph wouldn't get him outta the jail any way.
Possibly. But depending on the content, positioning, other items in the pic and combined with the logs, the wet blood photos etc, it could potentially cause serious difficulties for the authorities. There would certainly be explaining to do. Which fits in with their current strategy, which is to hope something doesn't come to light... but if it does, find a lame excuse to explain it.
Obstruct / dripfeed / explain piecemeal.
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Possibly. But depending on the content, positioning, other items in the pic and combined with the logs, the wet blood photos etc, it could potentially cause serious difficulties for the authorities. There would certainly be explaining to do. Which fits in with their current strategy, which is to hope something doesn't come to light... but if it does, find a lame excuse to explain it.
Obstruct / dripfeed / explain piecemeal.
The picture would alter the current thought that jeremy is in fact likely to be telling the truth to a wider spectrum of people interested in the case the ball would be firmly in the police court and with photographic evidence thats not going to be easy to explain away and how do we know other material exists elsewhere.
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The picture would alter the current thought that jeremy is in fact likely to be telling the truth to a wider spectrum of people interested in the case the ball would be firmly in the police court and with photographic evidence thats not going to be easy to explain away and how do we know other material exists elsewhere.
do you believe it exists Mertol?
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do you believe it exists Mertol?
yes i do in some form, its time people woke up and come to terms that this country is not great its one of a few fast becoming closed nations where truth is a menace , right now i would feel more safe in north korea.
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yes i do in some form, its time people woke up and come to terms that this country is not great its one of a few fast becoming closed nations where truth is a menace , right now i would feel more safe in north korea.
in some form?
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Hard copy i.e format taken, electronic, floppy disc, and thesedays hard drive, sd card, ive also heard it could be stored by cryptic data and you need a code to read it in this case not data but data image.
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in some form?
Imaginary form. This is complete rubbish. This alleged photo will never be produced my MT IMO
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Hard copy i.e format taken, electronic, floppy disc, and thesedays hard drive, sd card, ive also heard it could be stored by cryptic data and you need a code to read it in this case not data but data image.
so why has he never sent this to anyone? Why did he lie to the forum about it?
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IF mike has the picture do you not think he has severely obstructed JBs appeal ?
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Imaginary form. This is complete rubbish. This alleged photo will never be produced my MT IMO
lol...
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so why has he never sent this to anyone? Why did he lie to the forum about it?
I'm see he'll find an explanation.... He really likes the role of ringmaster!
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Imaginary form. This is complete rubbish. This alleged photo will never be produced my MT IMO
you sound very sure i wish i had that gift of insight.
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Did he not say he never made a copy?
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IF mike has the picture do you not think he has severely obstructed JBs appeal ?
I think the opposite is true.
If Mike doesn't have the picture or it doesn't exist, then he put bambers case back around 10 years, as this issue led to the sacking of Ewen Smith, the subsequent arrival of GDS and several years of wild theories and wasted CCRC submissions.
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you sound very sure i wish i had that gift of insight.
Not insight,foresight....
The twists and turns mikes performed re: this "photo" destroys it's credibility as to it's existence
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so why has he never sent this to anyone? Why did he lie to the forum about it?
The police are free at anytime to view the forum and locate ip location any tangible evidence that someome may be in violation of law could be questioned or even arrested, given the official take is jeremy is guilty public opinion would give rise to question and with good reason, that may be too much to gamble even for the police they are dumb but not that dumb.
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Imaginary form. This is complete rubbish. This alleged photo will never be produced my MT IMO
I like a man who says what he thinks :)
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Did he not say he never made a copy?
No. He believes he has a copy on an old computor. I think if it was me I'd of checked earlier....
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No. He believes he has a copy on an old computor. I think if it was me I'd of checked earlier....
Hi
I did say to Mike that I did not think such a photo existed, but he assured me it did. I can't believe that for 27 years this has been kept secret. Why was this picture never produced at the onset? Oh well Good Night folk.....We shall see. :)
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The police are free at anytime to view the forum and locate ip location any tangible evidence that someome may be in violation of law could be questioned or even arrested, given the official take is jeremy is guilty public opinion would give rise to question and with good reason, that may be too much to gamble even for the police they are dumb but not that dumb.
But now he HAS admitted to having it. So if it exists and IF the police wanted to, they could now take action, so whats the difference between now and a few months ago??
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But now he HAS admitted to having it. So if it exists and IF the police wanted to, they could now take action, so whats the difference between now and a few months ago??
For the police their work has already been done with the recent ccrc verdict dont rock the boat
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But now he HAS admitted to having it. So if it exists and IF the police wanted to, they could now take action, so whats the difference between now and a few months ago??
Nothing, and he's not exactly difficult to find is he?
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I have no idea what that means Mertol, sorry.
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But now he HAS admitted to having it. So if it exists and IF the police wanted to, they could now take action, so whats the difference between now and a few months ago??
Has mikes bluff been called and he's now found severely wanting. He was forever promising to inflict his wrath if the CCRC decision didnt go JBs way.... Now we'll see.....I know mike loves to string it out,that's just his style, but it really is counterproductive to the outcome he strives for IMO
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I can't believe this thread! what utter nonsense! A man who's dedicated the last God knows how many years trying to prove Bamber didn't do it, steals a photograph which has never been in the defence's domain before and then doesn't give it to Simon Mckay? Sends it by post? Doesn't send it electronically to someone? Come on people!!
Although we sit on different sides of the fence Vic I concur. This bed photo is nonsense.
It seems there are multiple pictures now, yet no one has posted one.
Lord Lucan will be found before this photo is shown.
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I have no idea what that means Mertol, sorry.
Lets say mike has the image on a computer he is questioned the computer taken away he never made copies he never sent any, that is the last he would see of it, if copies were sent by electronic means that data should be at GCHQ as a ex police officer told me every email sent they have.
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Lets say mike has the image on a computer he is questioned the computer taken away he never made copies he never sent any, that is the last he would see of it, if copies were sent by electronic means that data should be at GCHQ as a ex police officer told me every email sent they have.
But Mertol. Why would Mike drive hundreds of miles to meet Z, to see a picture, that he already had?? and what flippin good is it doing sat on his hard drive? It's certainly not helping Bamber!
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But Mertol. Why would Mike drive hundreds of miles to meet Z, to see a picture, that he already had?? and what flippin good is it doing sat on his hard drive? It's certainly not helping Bamber!
I hate to say I agree again.
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But Mertol. Why would Mike drive hundreds of miles to meet Z, to see a picture, that he already had?? and what flippin good is it doing sat on his hard drive? It's certainly not helping Bamber!
To take your last part 1st thats easier to answer right now nothing is helping mr bamber if we can agree on that nothing, those tests proved inconclusive more time was needed they were out of time beaten by time or a deadline, i dont know what mike has on this case so i am going to guess its boxes and boxes of files, he has recently posted some of these files , its possible among them this cropped up,i dont know, the meetings with z to which members are divided on may have been all prior to this recent change.
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To take your last part 1st thats easier to answer right now nothing is helping mr bamber if we can agree on that nothing, those tests proved inconclusive more time was needed they were out of time beaten by time or a deadline, i dont know what mike has on this case so i am going to guess its boxes and boxes of files, he has recently posted some of these files , its possible among them this cropped up,i dont know, the meetings with z to which members are divided on may have been all prior to this recent change.
what change?
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what change?
mikes recall he had a copy on this now obsolete computer, nothing to do with the thread but i will add i have about 5 obsolete notebooks as they were called then most still have data on.we have heard this new update about the photo image photographic proof will settle many opinions right now.
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mikes recall he had a copy on this now obsolete computer, nothing to do with the thread but i will add i have about 5 obsolete notebooks as they were called then most still have data on.we have heard this new update about the photo image photographic proof will settle many opinions right now.
I think you might have a long wait.
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I think you might have a long wait.
i hope not its not as if mr bamber has all the time in the world.
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Who is Doleyglassback? Other than somebody that shouts a lot it would appear! :)
ITS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE PEOPLE ACCEPT WHAT I'M SAYING..WHY SHOULD I BE SOMEONE WHO YOU WANT TO DISCREDIT? I DON'T KNOW YOU PEOPLE, AND YOU DON'T KNOW ME...BUT I KNOW WHAT I'VE SEEN AND ONE DAY YOU MAY SEE IT TOO AND LOOK BACK AT THIS MOMENT AND FEEL A TWAT!jUST BECAUSE SOME OF YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY DISHONEST DOESN'T MEAN WE ALL ARE..ITS TRUE SOME OF YOU HAVE BIG MOUTHS THAT WOBBLE WITH THINGS YOU ONLY WANT TO HEAR THOUGH!!!!!
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ITS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE PEOPLE ACCEPT WHAT I'M SAYING..WHY SHOULD I BE SOMEONE WHO YOU WANT TO DISCREDIT? I DON'T KNOW YOU PEOPLE, AND YOU DON'T KNOW ME...BUT I KNOW WHAT I'VE SEEN AND ONE DAY YOU MAY SEE IT TOO AND LOOK BACK AT THIS MOMENT AND FEEL A TWAT!jUST BECAUSE SOME OF YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY DISHONEST DOESN'T MEAN WE ALL ARE..ITS TRUE SOME OF YOU HAVE BIG MOUTHS THAT WOBBLE WITH THINGS YOU ONLY WANT TO HEAR THOUGH!!!!!
I don't have any problem with you and believe you have seen the photo, I merely made a joke about the caps
lock, it was said in jest and I apologise if I caused offence
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ITS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE PEOPLE ACCEPT WHAT I'M SAYING..WHY SHOULD I BE SOMEONE WHO YOU WANT TO DISCREDIT? I DON'T KNOW YOU PEOPLE, AND YOU DON'T KNOW ME...BUT I KNOW WHAT I'VE SEEN AND ONE DAY YOU MAY SEE IT TOO AND LOOK BACK AT THIS MOMENT AND FEEL A TWAT!jUST BECAUSE SOME OF YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY DISHONEST DOESN'T MEAN WE ALL ARE..ITS TRUE SOME OF YOU HAVE BIG MOUTHS THAT WOBBLE WITH THINGS YOU ONLY WANT TO HEAR THOUGH!!!!!
its not the only way for people to accept you tell the truth. The easiest way is to provide proof of what your saying is correct. I'm not talking about the alledged photo in this instance,i'm talking about all the crap that rears its head with absolutly no foundation. example being the itemised phone bill. that doesnt exist by virtue of the fact that itemised billing wasnt available.FACT. MT (i believe) has stated he has itemised bills from prior to the murders but hey presto,a key piece of proof of innocence is being held from the defence... (or of course,it doesn't exist) so as ive said,time to put up or shut up,I cant see why the Lemmings cant see it im afraid.... :(
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Was the telephone line at whf a business or private line installation?
Once you work that out, you will understand the truth about the existence of itemized billing...
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Was the telephone line at whf a business or private line installation?
Once you work that out, you will understand the truth about the existence of itemized billing...
police were satisfied a call was made to Jeremy,s cottage and to the police - how do you think police arrived at that conclusion?
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Because he told them that and he wasn't a suspect at the time?
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Was the telephone line at whf a business or private line installation?
Once you work that out, you will understand the truth about the existence of itemized billing...
check a previous post mike.check where itemised billing was first introduced and when...
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Was the telephone line at whf a business or private line installation?
Once you work that out, you will understand the truth about the existence of itemized billing...
here we go....
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I will consider posting the itemized billing notes once the CCRC makes its final decision
What is the result of your consideration?
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Please keep things civil. Doley, Buddy is naturally cautious.
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Your foul mouth means nothing to me Horsey. I am too intellegent to cross swords with you.
It is a shame because your account will be deleted, and I could have had fun with your stupid posts.
When will you trolls realise that you have no hiding place?
Unlike you I live in a house, not a hole in the ground. Unlike you I have Grandchilren, and this is achieved by normal means, not by wanking, so throw another one off the wrist, and piss off.
Buddy, go to your Two rifles thread, I have found something that you might be interested in....:))
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Are those the lyrics from a song?
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Are those the lyrics from a song?
;D ;D
What a charming man, eh?!
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Delightful.
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I was right, it's something called "Twat" by John Cooper Clarke for anyone that remembers him.
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I was right, it's something called "Twat" by John Cooper Clarke for anyone that remembers him.
WELL DONE BRIDGET, SOMEONE WITH INTELLIGENCE..MAKES GOOD...
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Under normal circumstances I would take that as a compliment.
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Under normal circumstances I would take that as a compliment.
it is a compliment...so take it as one...
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it is a compliment...so take it as one...
Thank you then. And thank you for turning off the caps. Did you get it out of your system, whatever it was?
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Mods - why has this fool not been banned and his posts deleted? :(
Hi bob! Thought you'd gone! Good to see you haven't. I dont think there are any arund at mo. How gorgeous is he!! Goodnight.
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Hi bob! Thought you'd gone! Good to see you haven't. I dont think there are any arund at mo. How gorgeous is he!! Goodnight.
I was going to go maggie but I lurked a while and then saw Mike asking on this thread for instructions on how to recover the data from his old hard drive, and as it's something I know a bit about, so I posted with links to help him out - not had any response though so not sure if I've added any value.
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I was going to go maggie but I lurked a while and then saw Mike asking on this thread for instructions on how to recover the data from his old hard drive, and as it's something I know a bit about, so I posted with links to help him out - not had any response though so not sure if I've added any value.
we dont agree all the time bob but if you have advice to help mike then he can use this to sort this out and release some hard credible breakthrough now would be a good time.
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Mods - why has this fool not been banned and his posts deleted? :(
We get tired of asking for restraint and we have members, some established, who will go looking for scraps and snap at other posters. It's tiresome. I nearly deleted this before but then I wondered if I would have to delete Buddy's posts also. In the end, I decided not to.
These posts do nothing for the forum in my opinion. They do not help the forum to retain a serious bent, required to sustain interest from passing professionals, media types etc.
I wish people would think carefully before they post, as to whether their post is helpful to highlighting the case or detrimental to it. If it's the latter, it simply isn't worth pressing the send button.
Grown men and women are not capable of taking a deep breath before sending posts which will often achieve nothing except incite a response in kind or sometimes worse.
Very tiresome.
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In all fairness to Buddy,he always tells it like it is.He is a long term member and is probably sick to the back teeth of the trolls,so you cannot blame him for being suspicious.And he was only reacting to a jibe from Doley toward forum members.
It might have been better if Doley had just reported Buddy's response to a moderator?But the scathing attack from Doley was uncalled for,over the top and too damn personal......IMO. :(
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I LOVE BUDDY x x x
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I LOVE BUDDY x x x
Aaah.....me too xx
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Your foul mouth means nothing to me Horsey. I am too intellegent to cross swords with you.
It is a shame because your account will be deleted, and I could have had fun with your stupid posts.
When will you trolls realise that you have no hiding place?
Unlike you I live in a house, not a hole in the ground. Unlike you I have Grandchilren, and this is achieved by normal means, not by wanking, so throw another one off the wrist, and piss off.
Buddy I loved that post especially the end :D
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Like Rochford I was considering deleting the posts here, which do not help the forum. However I shared his view that I did not want to delete Buddy's posts.
If Buddy would like me to I will delete all of the offending posts.
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shall we then revert to discussing the title heading?
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shall we then revert to discussing the title heading?
Good idea.
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Good idea.
Very good idea.
The alleged photgraph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck would have guaranteed Jeremy a referral to the Court of Appeal.
Further it would guarantee Jeremy's conviction being overturned.
It would be regarded as new evidence and would guarantee Jeremy being found innocent of the crime as convicted in a Court of Law.
As such Jeremy would have been able to right any wrong doings he feels in terms of the law and his inheritance before the civil courts.
Ask NGB if all the above would not be the case.
However, according to Mike, we have recently learnt Mike stole the alleged photograph that would deliver everything Jeremy wants and then Mike proceeds to lose it without covering his position.
It would appear the track record on the handling of evidence is not very good on all sides. Did Mike not take any lessons from the critisms made of Essex Police?
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Very good idea.
The alleged photgraph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck would have guaranteed Jeremy a referral to the Court of Appeal.
Further it would guarantee Jeremy's conviction being overturned.
It would be regarded as new evidence and would guarantee Jeremy being found innocent of the crime as convicted in a Court of Law.
As such Jeremy would have been able to right any wrong doings he feels in terms of the law and his inheritance before the civil courts.
Ask NGB if all the above would not be the case.
I agree, it would.
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I agree, it would.
No,I disagree....
"However, according to Mike, we have recently learnt Mike stole the alleged photograph that would deliver everything Jeremy wants and then Mike proceeds to lose it without covering his position."
As Mike has revealed,He has a copy on file on a computor.He just needs to be shown how to extract it. I know it can be done and can get it done.Hasn't asked yet....
PS sorry,was disagreeing with curious :-X
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No,I disagree....
"However, according to Mike, we have recently learnt Mike stole the alleged photograph that would deliver everything Jeremy wants and then Mike proceeds to lose it without covering his position."
As Mike has revealed,He has a copy on file on a computor.He just needs to be shown how to extract it. I know it can be done and can get it done.Hasn't asked yet....
PS sorry,was disagreeing with curious :-X
Tonyb
Thank you for pointing out Mike has a copy on file on a computer.
I have now read back through the thread and see this is what Mike is claiming.
I have to agree with some of the posts which have identified Mike is not necessarily doing the correct thing if he has the alleged photograph. I guess it will soon be make or break time.
If Mike does not have the alleged photgraph, in my opinion, credibilty will be zero rated and Jeremy's cause will be set back many years......... probably never to be released.
If Mike does have the alleged photograph, in my opinion, the issues surrounding the alleged photograph have been managed very badly. However, there may still be time to do something with it. This something would need to involve Simon McKay as from yesterday i.e. very urgently.
However, reading between the lines and taking into account how the alleged 'Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound' photograph story has webbed, weaved and evolved I have to say the whole thing reminds me of an old Michael Palin TV series called 'Ripping Yarns'.
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Sorry, but If had the photograph I would have sent the original to the lawyer and a copy to a newspaper under the name Anonymous.....and explaining what the photograph was. Any evidence is CRUCIAL...
27 years says so.....:)
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Sorry, but If had the photograph I would have sent the original to the lawyer and a copy to a newspaper under the name Anonymous.....and explaining what the photograph was. Any evidence is CRUCIAL...
27 years says so.....:)
Patti, the photo doesn't exist,at least not in the form Mike discribes. Mike has a habit of creating fiction from fact on occasions and IMO does himself a great dis-service. He hasn't just remembered this "copy",he's made it up with the get out clause that he is unable to retrieve it from a hard drive.
this is complete fiction even if the drive has been dismantled it's recoverable.
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I have to say the whole thing reminds me of an old Michael Palin TV series called 'Ripping Yarns'.
The Curse of the Claw
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Like Rochford I was considering deleting the posts here, which do not help the forum. However I shared his view that I did not want to delete Buddy's posts.
If Buddy would like me to I will delete all of the offending posts.
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Neil please feel free to remove my post. I will not be offended. I was reacting to a disgusting post, and sadly took the bait. I realise that at at times I over react, and apologise for this, but I was goaded.
I will keep my fizzog shut for a while.
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For the short time I've been a member of this forum, I've had the pleasure of meeting some really intelligent minds, but more importantly, I've met people who CARE about justice and work tirelessly to make sure the truth comes out.
It now seems possible that "THE" truth has been sitting there for some time, in the form of a picture so important that one would imagine it to be lodged, at the very least, with a solicitor, or better still in a bank vault, instead of which, it appears to reside somewhere deep in Cyberland where it remains for want of A LEAD!!!? Forgive me, I know nothing of computers, BUT I know a man who does!!!
If this picture exists, much of the hard work put in by dedicated people is irrelevant. I've read PAGES of what seems to me to be inhouse squabbles with not one reference to the person to whom this forum is dedicated. THERE IS NO "I" IN TEAM.
Illegal or not, if that picture had been photocopied and sent to every government department from the PM downwards, and to every television channel and newspaper, surely it would be "Mission accomplished"
Mike, most people seem to think you're doing sterling work. It was certainly the impression I had when I joined. I understand you've had problems in your relationship with Jeremy, and whilst I appreciate he may not be the easiest person, from where he is,it must feel as if the person who holds the key to his freedom is delaying turning it.
I have no personal axe to grind.n I'm not 100% sure one way or the other, but I believe in truth and I believe in justice.
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Like Rochford I was considering deleting the posts here, which do not help the forum. However I shared his view that I did not want to delete Buddy's posts.
If Buddy would like me to I will delete all of the offending posts.
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Neil please feel free to remove my post. I will not be offended. I was reacting to a disgusting post, and sadly took the bait. I realise that at at times I over react, and apologise for this, but I was goaded.
I will keep my fizzog shut for a while.
Cliff - there is no need to apologise. You were provoked and then the response you received was way over the top. It escalated from there. I will delete all of those posts now.
Please keep on posting Cliff, your contributions are always valued.
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For the short time I've been a member of this forum, I've had the pleasure of meeting some really intelligent minds, but more importantly, I've met people who CARE about justice and work tirelessly to make sure the truth comes out.
It now seems possible that "THE" truth has been sitting there for some time, in the form of a picture so important that one would imagine it to be lodged, at the very least, with a solicitor, or better still in a bank vault, instead of which, it appears to reside somewhere deep in Cyberland where it remains for want of A LEAD!!!? Forgive me, I know nothing of computers, BUT I know a man who does!!!
If this picture exists, much of the hard work put in by dedicated people is irrelevant. I've read PAGES of what seems to me to be inhouse squabbles with not one reference to the person to whom this forum is dedicated. THERE IS NO "I" IN TEAM.
Illegal or not, if that picture had been photocopied and sent to every government department from the PM downwards, and to every television channel and newspaper, surely it would be "Mission accomplished"
Mike, most people seem to think you're doing sterling work. It was certainly the impression I had when I joined. I understand you've had problems in your relationship with Jeremy, and whilst I appreciate he may not be the easiest person, from where he is,it must feel as if the person who holds the key to his freedom is delaying turning it.
I have no personal axe to grind.n I'm not 100% sure one way or the other, but I believe in truth and I believe in justice.
Well said april.....I agree with everything you have said. :)
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I know that what Mat said seems to have been discredited but he alleged that the photo obnly showed one bullet wound because of the angle it was taking. This could be possible and the photo could be relatively worthless other than showing inconsistencies in the story of the police. The most important thing seems to be to get hold of it!
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Well said april.....I agree with everything you have said. :)
Yes, excellent post April.
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I know that what Mat said seems to have been discredited but he alleged that the photo obnly showed one bullet wound because of the angle it was taking. This could be possible and the photo could be relatively worthless other than showing inconsistencies in the story of the police. The most important thing seems to be to get hold of it!
Yeah, one bullet wound because of angle cause by the fact that Sheila was laid on the bed as a perosn who was alive would - head on the pillow to the head is raised causing the neck to crease.
This is what I've always been led to believe.
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I have read that the SOC officer that was in charge, was repeatedly asked if the gun was made safe. I don't think it was. If Sheila had her hand on the trigger, It could well have gone off....It can't be proved of course....
From the pictures I have seen, there is no blood on the bed at Sheila side to suggest she was on there. But, if you look closely the bedding seems to have been shoved back, to allow someone to sit on the bed. :)
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Yeah, one bullet wound because of angle cause by the fact that Sheila was laid on the bed as a perosn who was alive would - head on the pillow to the head is raised causing the neck to crease.
This is what I've always been led to believe.
You are back Mat, apologies for saying you had been discredited, i thought you had been banned
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No problem, Ajross.
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Cliff - there is no need to apologise. You were provoked and then the response you received was way over the top. It escalated from there. I will delete all of those posts now.
Please keep on posting Cliff, your contributions are always valued.
who provoked who? and with what?
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I have read that the SOC officer that was in charge, was repeatedly asked if the gun was made safe. I don't think it was. If Sheila had her hand on the trigger, It could well have gone off....It can't be proved of course....
From the pictures I have seen, there is no blood on the bed at Sheila side to suggest she was on there. But, if you look closely the bedding seems to have been shoved back, to allow someone to sit on the bed. :)
One issue I have mentioned on here is that in the two photos of Sheila next to the bed her body has clearly been moved (there is a presumably urine patch on the floor under her which is in a different position) What strikes me is that it looks as if the bed has been made. Something which has also occured to me is that (while I am not disputing that she was on the bed at some point) if the urine (and if indeed that is what it is) was on the floor then I would suggest she was shot and found on the floor where that patch is. Unfortunately, the carpets were all burned so presumably there is no evidence
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One issue I have mentioned on here is that in the two photos of Sheila next to the bed her body has clearly been moved (there is a presumably urine patch on the floor under her which is in a different position) What strikes me is that it looks as if the bed has been made. Something which has also occured to me is that (while I am not disputing that she was on the bed at some point) if the urine (and if indeed that is what it is) was on the floor then I would suggest she was shot and found on the floor where that patch is. Unfortunately, the carpets were all burned so presumably there is no evidence
Hi ajross
Iv'e not read anything about the urine patch...I still have my L's on.....
Looking at the picture...there is blood splatter around her legs, but none on her legs. I'm inclined to go with what the pathologist said and that was the she was stood up during the first shot.
She brought her arm up to her neck....hence the blood falling in a downward position on her arms. IMHO I think she must have gone down to the floor. She would have lost possession of the gun, so her only way of picking it up, was to hit the floor.....I then think she was on her side, she positioned the gun again and shot, upon doing so it shot her back onto her back....All the blood flows to her right....
If Jeremy had shot her....he would have had to laid on the floor with her to have shot her....he would have to have been on the floor more or less of he shot her the first time......
I don't think Sheila would just stand there or lie there and let someone shoot her.....not only once but twice.....This is why Shelia must be the one that had the gun......does that make sense....:)
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Hi ajross
Iv'e not read anything about the urine patch...I still have my L's on.....
Looking at the picture...there is blood splatter around her legs, but none on her legs. I'm inclined to go with what the pathologist said and that was the she was stood up during the first shot.
She brought her arm up to her neck....hence the blood falling in a downward position on her arms. IMHO I think she must have gone down to the floor. She would have lost possession of the gun, so her only way of picking it up, was to hit the floor.....I then think she was on her side, she positioned the gun again and shot, upon doing so it shot her back onto her back....All the blood flows to her right....
If Jeremy had shot her....he would have had to laid on the floor with her to have shot her....he would have to have been on the floor more or less of he shot her the first time......
I don't think Sheila would just stand there or lie there and let someone shoot her.....not only once but twice.....This is why Shelia must be the one that had the gun......does that make sense....:)
You probably wouldn't have read anything about the possible urine patch as it was completely ignored when I posted it and asked about it. You do at least see a patch? Tell me i'm not barmy, it could just be a stain on the carpet
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I'm sure there is something up with this forum, it keeps crashing when I try and post stuff
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You probably wouldn't have read anything about the possible urine patch as it was completely ignored when I posted it and asked about it. You do at least see a patch? Tell me i'm not barmy, it could just be a stain on the carpet
I'll go and have a look...:)
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I am off to look too Ajross. This is something i've not heard about or read in any reports.
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I am off to look too Ajross. This is something i've not heard about or read in any reports.
and i'm probably wrong as I have no experience. my only support is that my wife agreed
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and i'm probably wrong as I have no experience. my only support is that my wife agreed
Ignore me, i've just looked at another photo from a different angle and it seems it may be a rug. sorry, looking at the other two photos together i thought it was a stain but looking really closely it seemed a little raised and on looking at the other photo i can see a rug under her. sorry, i'm a fool
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I was just about to post I beleive it to be a carpet. But I admit when I saw it in one picture I saw what you saw. It isn't until you look at more than one photograph and angle you realise your eyes are playing a trick on you.
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Ignore me, i've just looked at another photo from a different angle and it seems it may be a rug. sorry, looking at the other two photos together i thought it was a stain but looking really closely it seemed a little raised and on looking at the other photo i can see a rug under her. sorry, i'm a fool
Yeah, I have just looked at it....You're not a fool, believe me....I was convinced that it said Sheila was in the early changes of menopause, but is said early menstrual phrase.....I felt a bigger fool....Keep smiling....that's what I say... ;D
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Yeah, I have just looked at it....You're not a fool, believe me....I was convinced that it said Sheila was in the early changes of menopause, but is said early menstrual phrase.....I felt a bigger fool....Keep smiling....that's what I say... ;D
So, the two of you have just looked at the photos, can you shed any light on the hand written note in the bible? That is definitely there, i have asked before but nobody answered. it seems to start with the word 'love'
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4332;image
I don't know if that will take you to the close up, hopefully.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4332;image
I don't know if that will take you to the close up, hopefully.
All I can make out is "love one another"
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All I can make out is "love one another"
And you've no idea what happened to it? I read a mention of it once but i think it was on a different webpage
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Tonyb offered to help Mike extract the photo from his computer, have there been any developments on that front? Tonyb, has he replied?
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Mike,
Have you bought one of the HDD->USB interface kits I posted the links to earlier in this thread?
You didn't respond to my post so not sure if you missed it?
Either one of them will allow you to access the data on the disk.
As I said before, let me know if you need further info/help.
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Mike,
Have you bought one of the HDD->USB interface kits I posted the links to earlier in this thread?
You didn't respond to my post so not sure if you missed it?
Either one of them will allow you to access the data on the disk.
As I said before, let me know if you need further info/help.
Sorry, Bob, you also offered to help which makes the lack of reply even more disappointing.
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The transfer is quite simple thesedays , i know someone who copied data from a 8 inch floppy disc ! if mikes old computer is in the obsolete league what does a 8 inch floppy drive system fall into ? stoneage , this needs sorting out and urgently because in time jeremy wont be needing it.
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Sorry, Bob, you also offered to help which makes the lack of reply even more disappointing.
I guess Mike might not trust me as I'm a bit of an "anti", AJ, but even I can't intercept Amazon deliveries and insert small electronic listening devices into USB cables.
Or can I? .... ;D
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I guess Mike might not trust me as I'm a bit of an "anti", AJ, but even I can't intercept Amazon deliveries and insert small electronic listening devices into USB cables.
Or can I? .... ;D
Careful there, a couple of those points could get you in bother! :D
I'm neither pro nor anti but is something could confirm for me one way or the other I would be over the moon. Can I suggest something without inrending to upset. Mike - you have given up so much of your time on this case that you might be worried about it ending? If there is a photo that can free JB what would you do with yourself. (I'm trying to word this in a way that doesn't offend and i believe you deserve a lot of respect for all that you have done but if you do have this photo is that possibly stopping you?)
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Tonyb offered to help Mike extract the photo from his computer, have there been any developments on that front? Tonyb, has he replied?
No.I have a brother,ex Microsoft, now at intel who knows the score,so to speak.
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Yeah, one bullet wound because of angle cause by the fact that Sheila was laid on the bed as a perosn who was alive would - head on the pillow to the head is raised causing the neck to crease.
This is what I've always been led to believe.
Mat, how can you be sure that Sheila's head was in the position you say it was? Have you seen a picture that shows that? Or do you know someone who has such a picture and has told you that? How can you be so sure her head was in the position you say it was?
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I'll PM you Grahame.
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I'll PM you Grahame.
Will you PM me too Mat Please?
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Actually, I will just speak up because Mike is being called a liar.
There is a photo of Sheila on the bed at some stage, it could be at ANY stage of the day. I haven't seen it but my co-worker has. There could be more than one picture, I expect there is.
I provided a detailed description of it a few pages back.
I didn't say outright because of the abuse people get when they say something as big as what I am claiming.
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Actually, I will just speak up because Mike is being called a liar.
There is a photo of Sheila on the bed at some stage, it could be at ANY stage of the day. I haven't seen it but my co-worker has. There could be more than one picture, I expect there is.
I provided a detailed description of it a few pages back.
I didn't say outright because of the abuse people get when they say something as big as what I am claiming.
Thank you Mat for backing up Mike. That means that Mike is not a liar as some think. I can't promise you a soft ride though?
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I'm not expecting one! haha
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Actually, I will just speak up because Mike is being called a liar.
There is a photo of Sheila on the bed at some stage, it could be at ANY stage of the day. I haven't seen it but my co-worker has. There could be more than one picture, I expect there is.
I provided a detailed description of it a few pages back.
I didn't say outright because of the abuse people get when they say something as big as what I am claiming.
Thank you, Mat!
Do you know why this picture is being witheld?
Where is this picture?
Can we get a copy of this?
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So now we have 3 witnesses who know that Sheila was on the bed at some stage when the soc officers were present 4 if you count Z. (1) Mrs. Ann Eaton (2) Mike (3) Mat. The question still remains, when she was moved and why she was moved?
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And, if you and your co-worker have seen it, why did mike have to steal it?
Because it was witheld from Jeremy and the defence, Vic, and because Mike wants justice done, I would think.
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Nope Grahame, back to two. Ann heard it. She never witnessed it.
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And, if you and your co-worker have seen it, why did mike have to steal it?
There was probably more than one Vic. The real problen is why was it witheld?
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I don't know why it was stolen by Mike. The problem I have is .. my co-worker (God it's hard to answer these questions yet keep some anonminty.) ... my co-worker who is ......affiliated with certain government bodies saw this photo in 1993.
So I don't know where it is. I don't know why you don't all have it.
And I can't see how the defence do not have it. Seriously because if my co worker saw it.....It didn't come from the police.
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Exactly. It makes no sense. I don't believe it exists.
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I don't know why it was stolen by Mike. The problem I have is .. my co-worker (God it's hard to answer these questions yet keep some anonminty.) ... my co-worker who is ......affiliated with certain government bodies saw this photo in 1993.
So I don't know where it is. I don't know why you don't all have it.
And I can't see how the defence do not have it. Seriously because if my co worker saw it.....It didn't come from the police.
You see the value of this picture don't you Mat? It doesn't matter when Sheila's body was on the bed. It constitutes new evidence. Its for the lawyers to argue times etc.
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I see the picture as a can of worms.....and I wouldn't like to be working for the defence or the CCRC if it was to come out.
Too much work and so much speculation.
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Grahame, it's only a matter of time now before mike lifts it from the old hard drive and we'll all see it.
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You see the value of this picture don't you Mat? It doesn't matter when Sheila's body was on the bed. It constitutes new evidence. Its for the lawyers to argue times etc.
Why would Mat lie? There's no reason for him to do so. I believe him.
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Nope Grahame, back to two. Ann heard it. She never witnessed it.
Hi Vic. But she still gave that evidence in her statement that a police office told her that Sheila was on the bed. In any case two or three witnesses is counted in court as one backs up the other. How come the rest of Mrs. Eaton's evidence is accepted except that bit?
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You see the value of this picture don't you Mat? It doesn't matter when Sheila's body was on the bed. It constitutes new evidence. Its for the lawyers to argue times etc.
Very true. It would certainly make for an interesting conversation.
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Grahame, it's only a matter of time now before mike lifts it from the old hard drive and we'll all see it.
It doesn't matter Vic. We have at least two witnesses that it exists and what makes it more intriguing is the fact that Mike believes JB is innocent and Mat believes him to be guilty.
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A long topic and a lively one scattered among the postings reference is made to Sheila on the bed body on the bed when i read Sheila are we saying she was still alive ?
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I see the picture as a can of worms.....and I wouldn't like to be working for the defence or the CCRC if it was to come out.
Too much work and so much speculation.
It doesn't really matter what we think Mat. If what you say is true and because of what you have just said that you see it as a can of worms and that you were reluctant to say anything about it, means that there is every possibility that the picture/s exist and if it/they does/do, then this means that it must be counted among the evidence that was witheld from the court at the original trial.
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A long topic and a lively one scattered among the postings reference is made to Sheila on the bed body on the bed when i read Sheila are we saying she was still alive ?
Possible not Mertol. But then again what would be the main reason for moving someone from a soft surface to a hard surface?
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It doesn't really matter what we think Mat. If what you say is true and because of what you have just said that you see it as a can of worms and that you were reluctant to say anything about it, means that there is every possibility that the picture/s exist and if it/they does/do, then this means that it must be counted among the evidence that was witheld from the court at the original trial.
Sorry to butt in the picture would offer a different version of events that day and given the nature of those events a man was convicted on the known events and that simply is not acceptable.
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Sorry to butt in the picture would offer a different version of events that day and given the nature of those events a man was convicted on the known events and that simply is not acceptable.
Persacerly.
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Possible not Mertol. But then again what would be the main reason for moving someone from a soft surface to a hard surface?
There is general evidence to point that Sheila s 1st shot may not have been fatal.
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I don't know why it was stolen by Mike. The problem I have is .. my co-worker (God it's hard to answer these questions yet keep some anonminty.) ... my co-worker who is ......affiliated with certain government bodies saw this photo in 1993.
So I don't know where it is. I don't know why you don't all have it.
And I can't see how the defence do not have it. Seriously because if my co worker saw it.....It didn't come from the police.
If we take everyone at their word, presumably the reason why the defence don't have it is because Mike stole it and then forgot about it for a few years.
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If we take everyone at their word,
Strange that you should mention that Bridget. That is precisely what the Jury did who convicted Jeremy.
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Strange that you should mention that Bridget. That is precisely what the Jury did who convicted Jeremy.
Apart from Jeremy's.
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Apart from Jeremy's.
Granted. ;)
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Actually, I will just speak up because Mike is being called a liar.
There is a photo of Sheila on the bed at some stage, it could be at ANY stage of the day. I haven't seen it but my co-worker has. There could be more than one picture, I expect there is.
I provided a detailed description of it a few pages back.
I didn't say outright because of the abuse people get when they say something as big as what I am claiming.
I'm not sure Mike's being called a liar. I for one find it frustrating when he states something as fact,paints himself into a corner with a lack of tangible proof and goes quiet on the subject...
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Is there any more news on extracting this from the computer yet?
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Even if the photo comes to light I'm sure the authorities will find a way to explain it... e.g. She was moved to the bed from the floor to examine the floor under the body...etc.
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Even if the photo comes to light I'm sure the authorities will find a way to explain it... e.g. She was moved to the bed from the floor to examine the floor under the body...etc.
It really doesn't matter, as I said before it will still count was new evidence as it will immediately throw the former evidence and picture into doubt. Since every police officer testified that Sheila was on the bed. This single picture will immediately throw their testimonies into doubt for the simple reason that no one has mentioned that Sheila was on the bed at any time. In fact the very fact that every one of their statements agree contradicts this new picture. If it exists that is?
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It really doesn't matter, as I said before it will still count was new evidence as it will immediately throw the former evidence and picture into doubt. Since every police officer testified that Sheila was on the bed. This single picture will immediately throw their testimonies into doubt for the simple reason that no one has mentioned that Sheila was on the bed at any time. In fact the very fact that every one of their statements agree contradicts this new picture. If it exists that is?
grahame, "Since every police officer testified that Sheila was on the bed. This single picture will immediately throw their testimonies into doubt for the simple reason that no one has mentioned that Sheila was on the bed at any time." I assume this is a typo and you meant on the Floor?
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It really doesn't matter, as I said before it will still count was new evidence as it will immediately throw the former evidence and picture into doubt. Since every police officer testified that Sheila was on the bed. This single picture will immediately throw their testimonies into doubt for the simple reason that no one has mentioned that Sheila was on the bed at any time. In fact the very fact that every one of their statements agree contradicts this new picture. If it exists that is?
You are correct in this view although it has previously been said in appeal(?) that police officers statements are more reliable than photo's (at least thats what i remember)
The alledged photo coming to light would therefore reinforce AEs statement she was told by a police officer SC was found on the bed.
I personally do not believe that MT has a copy and hold the view that any copy will not come to light. I hope i am proved wrong as you are right grahame it will knock another foundation stone loose
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You are correct in this view although it has previously been said in appeal(?) that police officers statements are more reliable than photo's (at least thats what i remember)
The alledged photo coming to light would therefore reinforce AEs statement she was told by a police officer SC was found on the bed.
I personally do not believe that MT has a copy and hold the view that any copy will not come to light. I hope i am proved wrong as you are right grahame it will knock another foundation stone loose
What happened to the photo that 'Z' had? Wasn't that handed directly to the CCRC? Did it knock another foundation stone loose?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2212.15
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grahame, "Since every police officer testified that Sheila was on the bed. This single picture will immediately throw their testimonies into doubt for the simple reason that no one has mentioned that Sheila was on the bed at any time." I assume this is a typo and you meant on the Floor?
Yes, sorry, typo.
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You are correct in this view although it has previously been said in appeal(?) that police officers statements are more reliable than photo's (at least thats what i remember)
The alledged photo coming to light would therefore reinforce AEs statement she was told by a police officer SC was found on the bed.
I personally do not believe that MT has a copy and hold the view that any copy will not come to light. I hope i am proved wrong as you are right grahame it will knock another foundation stone loose
Yes I was worried that it would make no difference if there was such a picture. Not because it would undoubtedly prove that the police testimonies were wrong and therefore allegedly contrived, but because the CCRC will simply not accept it, rather believing that the police officers were not lying. Unfortunately that also must be challenged as it was not their place to make such a judgment in the first place. Unless it was the court of appeal who said that? I can't remember?
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Am I confused? The CCRC have the picture don't they.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2212.15
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Smoke and mirrors Mike, smoke and mirrors. You supposedly took possession of a photo of Sheila Caffell on the bed, post mortem. You sent the original photo by mail to a man you allegedly visited in jail. Why not hand it to him in person? You could have given it to his defence team. But what anyone would do is keep a copy, a physical copy. Not just some image on an old hard drive. And how did it get there Mike? By magic? You must have scanned it or copied it. I have believed in you without question for so long but not any more.
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Any news of this picture yet?
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Any news of this picture yet?
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused005.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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Smoke and mirrors Mike, smoke and mirrors. You supposedly took possession of a photo of Sheila Caffell on the bed, post mortem. You sent the original photo by mail to a man you allegedly visited in jail. Why not hand it to him in person? You could have given it to his defence team. But what anyone would do is keep a copy, a physical copy. Not just some image on an old hard drive. And how did it get there Mike? By magic? You must have scanned it or copied it. I have believed in you without question for so long but not any more.
Good, now find something else to get interested in...
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As this topic was started eleven days ago, don't you have any news yet regarding the drive you mentioned?
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Good, now find something else to get interested in...
But this thread and hopefully the revelation of the photo has us all intrigued. Mike, on many occasions you have promised to show us the "goods" if the CCRC decision didn't go favourably, now it's time to show the faithful they are not all Lemmings, IMHO....
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But this thread and hopefully the revelation of the photo has us all intrigued. Mike, on many occasions you have promised to show us the "goods" if the CCRC decision didn't go favourably, now it's time to show the faithful they are not all Lemmings, IMHO....
Mike also stated his informant was waiting to decide what to do, until after the CCRC decision. Whatever was handed to the CCRC was not sufficient for them to pull out of delivering a refusal to refer. Reading between the lines and Mat, it appears that whatever was handed in, can be explained away in the usual manner, i.e. total benefit of the doubt being given to Essex Police etc.
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But this thread and hopefully the revelation of the photo has us all intrigued. Mike, on many occasions you have promised to show us the "goods" if the CCRC decision didn't go favourably, now it's time to show the faithful they are not all Lemmings, IMHO....
The photograph of Sheila on the bed exists, I only removed one such photograph from the album when I visited Ewens office in 2004, there could have been others in the same album but I didn't look at all the pictures. The purpose of removing the photograph was with the specific intention of sending it to Jeremy, which is what I did. Of course, I did scan the image and retained it on a computer I was using at the time, I did this the same evening I returned from Ewens office in Birmingham, which was also the same evening that I spoke to Jeremy on the telephone at which stage I told him about the photograph of Sheila on the bed. I did not tell Jeremy that I had actually got one of the photographs when I spoke to him on the phone that evening, because I knew our telephone conversation was being monitored by Prison security, and I did not want to alert them that I had removed a photograph from the album sent to Ewen by Essex police. I sent the photograph to Jeremy under a privilege rule 37A, standing order 5B 32 (3), but I found out days later that the prison authorities had intercepted it and were refusing to hand it over to Jeremy, the prison told him that the contents of the correspondence would be placed on his prison file. This caused Jeremy and myself to have a fall out because at that stage he was in the process of appointing GDS to represent him, and getting rid of Ewen Smith. The prison told Jeremy that he could not receive privileged letters and contents from me, because he was currently using the same privilege to correspond with GDS. In fact, I think the prison either threatened to stop Jeremy and GDS communicating under the privilege rule because of the contents I sent to jeremy under the same. I wrote a separate letter to the governor at HMP Full Sutton, explaining that I had previously been entitled to communicate with Jeremy under the aforementioned privilege rule when I was acting as his McKensie man, and that no-one had contacted me to say that I could not still use that privileged facility?
Jeremy was fuming about what I had done because he said it was fucking up his new solicitor (GDS) communicating with him privately. He told me to stop writing to him under the privilege rule, and I think a week or so later, the prison authorities reinstated the privilege to allow Jeremy and GDS to communicate in private...
It was around this time that Jeremy disposed of Ewen Smiths services, and I was invited to transfer all the material in Ewen Smiths possession at Birmingham, down to GDS' offices in London, but I declined the offer. However, I did take up an invite to visit GDS' offices along with another person close to Jeremy (who I shall choose not to mention) for the purpose of looking through all the photograph albums and to take copies of any which showed Sheila on the bed. Present on this occasion was GDS' son Michael, we were allowed to take copies of a number of photographs but there were none of Sheila on the bed, which made me think that Ewen had sent these back to Essex police before forwarding the rest of the files onto GDS...
Anyway...
As far as I am concerned, the photograph I sent to Jeremy which shows Sheila on the bed is on Jeremys prison file...
Here are some photographs of the hard drive which contains a scanned copy of the picture I have been speaking about. I am taking steps to place it somewhere in safe hands (this very day), out of harms way, until I can get hold of a cable, to allow me to download the relevant file from it...
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A photo of the hard drive that contains the photo of Sheila on the bed. Cool.
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A photo of the hard drive that contains the photo of Sheila on the bed. Cool.
;D What caught my eye is the bar code on the hard drive. It couldn't be that old if it has that. Just shove it in your present computer Mike, set the thing to "slave" instead of "master" and hay presto you have your picture. You could even upload it onto the forum. Hard drives do look a bit boring on their own don't they.
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The 'drama' surrounding this photo has been long drawn out, drip fed and potentially counter-productive. No offence intended Mike, I realise this is your forum. Maybe the time has come to deliver the goods or forever hold your peace?
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The photograph of Sheila on the bed exists, I only removed one such photograph from the album when I visited Ewens office in 2004, there could have been others in the same album but I didn't look at all the pictures. The purpose of removing the photograph was with the specific intention of sending it to Jeremy, which is what I did. Of course, I did scan the image and retained it on a computer I was using at the time, I did this the same evening I returned from Ewens office in Birmingham...
The pictures you have posted of the hard drive indicate that it is using Vista V1, which wasn't released in the USA until 2006, and worldwide November 2007.
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The pictures you have posted of the hard drive indicate that it is using Vista V1, which wasn't released in the USA until 2006, and worldwide November 2007.
Hard drive contains image of Sheila on bed copied from original hard drive currently in possession of another (in storage). I am trying to obtain original hard drive later on today, and will photograph it similarly...
A copy of the image of Sheila on the bed will therefore be on both hard drives, the origonal one I scanned at the material time, and the second one (already photographed) I copied...
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;D What caught my eye is the bar code on the hard drive. It couldn't be that old if it has that. Just shove it in your present computer Mike, set the thing to "slave" instead of "master" and hay presto you have your picture. You could even upload it onto the forum. Hard drives do look a bit boring on their own don't they.
If the CCRC have already seen the picture it would be pointless re submitting it they will reject again or ignore, on the front cover of a large tabloid might not be easy to file away.
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Hard drive contains image of Sheila on bed copied from original hard drive currently in possession of another (in storage). I am trying to obtain original hard drive later on today, and will photograph it similarly...
A copy of the image of Sheila on the bed will therefore be on both hard drives, the origonal one I scanned at the material time, and the second one (already photographed) I copied...
So now the pics of the hard drive ard copied onto this hard drive. So is one in storage and this one is going into storage. I'm getting confused. ???..... Or bullshitted... ;)
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Hard drive contains image of Sheila on bed copied from original hard drive currently in possession of another (in storage). I am trying to obtain original hard drive later on today, and will photograph it similarly...
A copy of the image of Sheila on the bed will therefore be on both hard drives, the origonal one I scanned at the material time, and the second one (already photographed) I copied...
Oh ok, you didn't mention that before. Good news that it's on at least two hard drives, and that one that you have there is so recent that it will be a simple job to install and access it.
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Hi Mike I am with you on this one re: the photo on the bed and the hard drive. I cannot see what you would achieve by making it up as some have implied on the forum. Well done for all the hard work you are doing. I don,t think you deserve to be interrogated in this way. Lets wait and see.
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Oh ok, you didn't mention that before. Good news that it's on at least two hard drives, and that one that you have there is so recent that it will be a simple job to install and access it.
So simple it took 12(?) days to come up with a new twist. Mike says he needs a special cable to download images and is putting it in storage until he can get one. This os the reason he gave fo being unable to download it of his original drive... It appears,IMO,from mikes post 9.01am that he is in fact talking about the original hard drive and using photographic licence by showing pictures that have been"stage managed". This is really not the route that should be taken when one of the major arguments of your own defence scenario involve SOC pictures & videos missing/withheld similar to what MT himself is doing.
So what reason has MT got for withholding this picture?
1 it doesn't exist.
2 it does exist but he hasn't kept a copy
3 it does exist,he's kept a copy but can't extract it
4 it does exist,he's kept a copy,can extract but won't share it
There will be more depending on your point of view, so come on. Add to the list.
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So simple it took 12(?) days to come up with a new twist. Mike says he needs a special cable to download images and is putting it in storage until he can get one. This os the reason he gave fo being unable to download it of his original drive... It appears,IMO,from mikes post 9.01am that he is in fact talking about the original hard drive and using photographic licence by showing pictures that have been"stage managed". This is really not the route that should be taken when one of the major arguments of your own defence scenario involve SOC pictures & videos missing/withheld similar to what MT himself is doing.
So what reason has MT got for withholding this picture?
1 it doesn't exist.
2 it does exist but he hasn't kept a copy
3 it does exist,he's kept a copy but can't extract it
4 it does exist,he's kept a copy,can extract but won't share it
There will be more depending on your point of view, so come on. Add to the list.
Well yes, because at 9.01 he said "Here are some photographs of the hard drive which contains a scanned copy of the picture I have been speaking about" and it now appears that what is on this hard drive is another copy of the scanned copy etc... But let's not be picky, it will be easy enough for him to post now.
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Well yes, because at 9.01 he said "Here are some photographs of the hard drive which contains a scanned copy of the picture I have been speaking about" and it now appears that what is on this hard drive is another copy of the scanned copy etc... But let's not be picky, it will be easy enough for him to post now.
True
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Here are some photographs of the hard drive which contains a scanned copy of the picture I have been speaking about. I am taking steps to place it somewhere in safe hands (this very day), out of harms way, until I can get hold of a cable, to allow me to download the relevant file from it...
Miike - about 10 days ago I posted you two links to Amazon where you could buy exactly the cable you needed. You could therefore have been in posession of this cable about 9 days ago. One might have thought something this important would have deserved your intention - unless you are on yet another of your wind-ups of course? ::)
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I don't want to spoil whatever odd enjoyment you're getting out of this game Mike, but the disk you have posted a picture of is a SATA disk (i.e. it uses a modern interface), and could therefore simply be plugged into the spare cable inside your modern PC and read directly.
Furthermore, the disk you claim to have in archive, would have been an IDE disk. You therefore could not have backed this up to the SATA disk without a suitable interface cable (or external disk housing). So you must already have the cable you need to read it.
I just don't get why you keep playing these games, and have even less idea why people still believe you - especially the old timers who've been through this so many times before :(
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I don't want to spoil whatever odd enjoyment you're getting out of this game Mike, but the disk you have posted a picture of is a SATA disk (i.e. it uses a modern interface), and could therefore simply be plugged into the spare cable inside your modern PC and read directly.
Furthermore, the disk you claim to have in archive, would have been an IDE disk. You therefore could not have backed this up to the SATA disk without a suitable interface cable (or external disk housing). So you must already have the cable you need to read it.
I just don't get why you keep playing these games, and have even less idea why people still believe you - especially the old timers who've been through this so many times before :(
+ one Bob. The absence of certain ( lets keep the tradition up....) un-named forum members who would normally be in support of you on this one mike shows how embarrassed they must be reading the thread,watching you dig a bigger and bigger hole for yourself.
I must state for the record I'm not Anti-Mike Tesko in any way,shape and form. I'm simply anti bulllshit. I believe Bullshit deflects from the very good threads that are produced and disseminates any quality into rubbish
Haven't a clue why it happens but that's life I suppose, and don't forget, for some,Life could well mean Life.
Time to cut the Bullshit...
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+ one Bob. The absence of certain ( lets keep the tradition up....) un-named forum members who would normally be in support of you on this one mike shows how embarrassed they must be reading the thread,watching you dig a bigger and bigger hole for yourself.
I must state for the record I'm not Anti-Mike Tesko in any way,shape and form. I'm simply anti bulllshit. I believe Bullshit deflects from the very good threads that are produced and disseminates any quality into rubbish
Haven't a clue why it happens but that's life I suppose, and don't forget, for some,Life could well mean Life.
Time to cut the Bullshit...
I feel the same way Tony - I took Mike at his work and sent him links to get those cables - they could have been delivered within 24 hours and the image posted onto the forum an hour after that. He ignored my post, so I posted a few days later to remind him in case he had missed my post - again I was ignored. Then this latest "revelation" appears. I'm afraid you can only suspend your disbelief so far, and mine's past stretching point. The problem is, it casts doubt over everything else Mike claims as first-hand information :-\
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I feel the same way Tony - I took Mike at his work and sent him links to get those cables - they could have been delivered within 24 hours and the image posted onto the forum an hour after that. He ignored my post, so I posted a few days later to remind him in case he had missed my post - again I was ignored. Then this latest "revelation" appears. I'm afraid you can only suspend your disbelief so far, and mine's past stretching point. The problem is, it casts doubt over everything else Mike claims as first-hand information :-\
Aaawwww Bob. Don't get upset. He's been ignoring me for a while now... :'(
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A copy of the image of Sheila on the bed will therefore be on both hard drives, the original one I scanned at the material time, and the second one (already photographed) I copied...
Did you do that copying yourself? Do you have a modern desktop PC? If so, what make and model?
Also, why are you handling the drive out of its bag? The bag is there to protect it.
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You may be interested to know, that I have now managed to get my hands on two further hard drives from an additional two computers I used previously. I am posting images of these to identify them publicly for future reference. Images of Sheila appear on one of the latest hard drives I have managed to lay my hands on, and another copy of the scanned image on the original hard drive, a photograph of which I have already posted. Other material linked to this case is also stored upon these hard drives, some of the material is original, whilst other material is copied from the previous computer. There is something else everyone should be aware of - I also have some information stored on discs, memory sticks and portable memory hard drives which I used to save and transfer material from one computer to the other, but not all information on one computer was transferred to the other in sequence, only the relevant parts I continued to be interested in. In any event, I now have the hard drives from the three computers in question in my possession, containing information and material covering my role and involvement with this case over many many years...
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I am endeavouring to gather together all the other equipment used to help me store, and transfer information between systems, so that it is all in one place ready for the final push...
In the meantime, I am making arrangements for the three hardrives to be put into storage at a safe house, tonight. I may be away from the forum for several hours until I get back...
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By the way, the two tape cassettes shown in these images are recordings of private conversations I had with Jeremy whilst I was a serving prisoner at HMP Full Sutton, and were recorded the evening before I was released on bail by the court of appeal, on 26th July 1989. I am considering whether or not to make the contents of these recordings public...
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By the way, the two tape cassettes shown in these images are recordings of private conversations I had with Jeremy whilst I was a serving prisoner at HMP Full Sutton, and were recorded the evening before I was released on bail by the court of appeal, on 26th July 1989. I am considering whether or not to make the contents of these recordings public...
That would be so interesting Mike.
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By the way, the two tape cassettes shown in these images are recordings of private conversations I had with Jeremy whilst I was a serving prisoner at HMP Full Sutton, and were recorded the evening before I was released on bail by the court of appeal, on 26th July 1989. I am considering whether or not to make the contents of these recordings public...
Publish the tapes through a newspaper Mike. They should get more of an audience than on the forum and less chance of them thought a fake from certain members on here.
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To be honest, Mike could give copies of everything he has to the Guardian and let them lead this. However, its now been 7 years that Mike has had possession (a copy) of the photo of Sheila on the bed and we should really be asking whether Jeremy has spent 7 more years in prison than he should have?
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Publish the tapes through a newspaper Mike. They should get more of an audience than on the forum and less chance of them thought a fake from certain members on here.
Yes, good idea Grahame. Should think the Guardian would be up for it.
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To be honest, Mike could give copies of everything he has to the Guardian and let them lead this. However, its now been 7 years that Mike has had possession (a copy) of the photo of Sheila on the bed and we should really be asking whether Jeremy has spent 7 more years in prison than he should have?
Think at the moment getting him out at all is the main thing elphick, plenty of time for recriminations after. Whenever he gets out it won't happen without a huge struggle, I should imagine.
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Think at the moment getting him out at all is the main thing elphick, plenty of time for recriminations after. Whenever he gets out it won't happen without a huge struggle, I should imagine.
I agree. However, I have no idea why these simple things are so complicated to do. I mean, taking pictures of hard drives, posting them here and storing them in a safe house seems to be harder to me than accessing one of the copies of the pictures, calling/emailing Eric Allison at the Guardian and asking him to take this forward.
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I agree. However, I have no idea why these simple things are so complicated to do. I mean, taking pictures of hard drives, posting them here and storing them in a safe house seems to be harder to me than accessing one of the copies of the pictures, calling/emailing Eric Allison at the Guardian and asking him to take this forward.
Perhaps it's just a load of old cobblers elphick?
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I agree. However, I have no idea why these simple things are so complicated to do. I mean, taking pictures of hard drives, posting them here and storing them in a safe house seems to be harder to me than accessing one of the copies of the pictures, calling/emailing Eric Allison at the Guardian and asking him to take this forward.
I agree with this.
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I agree with this.
Thank you Rochford, hopefully as a moderator, you will be able to discuss this with the other moderators and do the right thing.
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I agree with this.
yes.
this bullshitting around the houses gets no one,anywhere
release the audio tapes to the press,you'll retain copywrite and coin a few quid off the premium rate "listen to Bamber" premium phone line. Win-Win for everybody i would think.
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Whats the significance of the letter from Tony Benn?
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Publish the tapes through a newspaper Mike. They should get more of an audience than on the forum and less chance of them thought a fake from certain members on here.
Maybe Grahame, but why would a newspaper be interested in a taped coversation between Mike and JB made the night of Mike's release? Unless, of course, the tapes contain JB's confession?
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Thank you Rochford, hopefully as a moderator, you will be able to discuss this with the other moderators and do the right thing.
Elphick, I have no input in Mike's work or decisions. Other than maybe when I've suggested something helpful on here!
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Maybe Grahame, but why would a newspaper be interested in a taped coversation between Mike and JB made the night of Mike's release? Unless, of course, the tapes contain JB's confession?
i'd be interested irespective of the content
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i'd be interested irespective of the content
So would I, but I doubt the Guardian would - after all, they can have a conversation with JB any time they like.
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By the way, the two tape cassettes shown in these images are recordings of private conversations I had with Jeremy whilst I was a serving prisoner at HMP Full Sutton, and were recorded the evening before I was released on bail by the court of appeal, on 26th July 1989. I am considering whether or not to make the contents of these recordings public...
Hi Mike, if you think those tapes could be helpful, then yes......You've had many years to think about it me duck...:)
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Elphick, I have no input in Mike's work or decisions. Other than maybe when I've suggested something helpful on here!
Thanks Rochford. Perhaps though, a unified campaign by the moderators would help get to the bottom of this. That would be a useful suggestion.
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Whats the significance of the letter from Tony Benn?
A sage question coming from a man named tonyb :D
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So would I, but I doubt the Guardian would - after all, they can have a conversation with JB any time they like.
yes,but surely were talking about tapes of an uncensored conversation? maybe JB didnt know he was being recorded?. I do know one thing,they ought to be transfered to a medium other than spooled tape for safetys sake
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So would I, but I doubt the Guardian would - after all, they can have a conversation with JB any time they like.
A good point. Perhaps we could ask Eric Allison to interview Mike? Mike can then bring forward the picture of Sheila on the bed and any other material he wants.
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A sage question coming from a man named tonyb :D
you know i trully didnt see that.... Durrrr.
anyway, i dont smoke a pipe,anymore.....
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yes,but surely were talking about tapes of an uncensored conversation? maybe JB didnt know he was being recorded?. I do know one thing,they ought to be transfered to a medium other than spooled tape for safetys sake
Quite so. I think the best thing to do would be to buy a fourth hard disk to digitise them onto, and then post a photo of it ;)
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A good point. Perhaps we could ask Eric Allison to interview Mike? Mike can then bring forward the picture of Sheila on the bed and any other material he wants.
That would be interesting - though I presume Eric Allison is well aware of Mike, so could have done this already?
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That would be interesting - though I presume Eric Allison is well aware of Mike, so could have done this already?
Eric would want a story with a picture of Sheila on the bed wouldn't he? Could he get that story and photo from Mike? If he could, then what is stopping him?
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Eric would want a story with a picture of Sheila on the bed wouldn't he? Could he get that story and photo from Mike? If he could, then what is stopping him?
I think you will find it is Mike who is stopping anything happening with the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck.
This is the alleged photograph that was apparenlty being withheld under PII which it has now transpired was stolen from the office of Ewen Smith. Jeremy subsequently sacked Ewen after Mike told Jeremy about the alleged photograph which resulted in Jeremy writing to Ewen to request a copy of the alleged photograph.
Given the latest revelations Mike has apparently had a copy of the alleged photograph since 2004 (circa 8 years). Mike did nothing with the alleged photograph even after learning the original was 'intercepted and disappeared' when the prison authorities abused special priviledge communications.
What has changed since 2004............ Jeremy is still in prison serving a whole life sentence.
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Personally, revealing everything to the public, might not be a good idea. I would hold back to see how the Judicial Review goes, because if Jeremy's case goes back to the court of appeal....All these photographs etc could be used then and will go in Jeremy's favour. To expose them now, to me would be a bit daft....:)
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I think you will find it is Mike who is stopping anything happening with the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck.
This is the alleged photograph that was apparenlty being withheld under PII which it has now transpired was stolen from the office of Ewen Smith. Jeremy subsequently sacked Ewen after Mike told Jeremy about the alleged photograph which resulted in Jeremy writing to Ewen to request a copy of the alleged photograph.
Given the latest revelations Mike has apparently had a copy of the alleged photograph since 2004 (circa 8 years). Mike did nothing with the alleged photograph even after learning the original was 'intercepted and disappeared' when the prison authorities abused special priviledge communications.
What has changed since 2004............ Jeremy is still in prison serving a whole life sentence.
This is an excellent post. Thanks.
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To expose them now, to me would be a bit daft....:)
How do you feel about not exposing them for 8 years?
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How do you feel about not exposing them for 8 years?
Hi elphick
From what I gather these photograph's are not for public information under the 30 year rule. I also understand that they were stolen or have been received by mistake. I was reading a letter by Jeremy which is on another forum last night and he says in that letter that he had come across photo's and documents that are under the PII and that the Essex police had asked for them back....but he refuses to give them back. I am under the impression that if these were exposed it could mean someone could be arrested, because they were obtained unlawfully.
If there is such a photo and Jeremy gets his appeal then would it not be better that these were exposed during that appeal and not before? It could be too his advantage and could change public opinion? :)
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Hi elphick
From what I gather these photograph's are not for public information under the 30 year rule. I also understand that they were stolen or have been received by mistake. I was reading a letter by Jeremy which is on another forum last night and he says in that letter that he had come across photo's and documents that are under the PII and that the Essex police had asked for them back....but he refuses to give them back. I am under the impression that if these were exposed it could mean someone could be arrested, because they were obtained unlawfully.
If there is such a photo and Jeremy gets his appeal then would it not be better that these were exposed during that appeal and not before? It could be too his advantage and could change public opinion? :)
No, for two reasons. Firstly, without such a photo he's unlikely to get an appeal, and secondly because you can't just spring new evidence on the other side during the course of proceedings. You have to disclose it and give the other side a chance to consider how they will respond to it, otherwise it is unlikely to be admitted as evidence.
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I'm assuming that these photo's are part of the 200+ that should have been produced at Jeremy's first trial back in 1986/7.?
If so,I don't think it matters who sees them at this juncture,because had there been a fairer trial at the onset,they,along with the thousands of unseen
documents would have paved the way for a more in-depth investigation rather than the shambolic and totally biased opinions of
the jury being swayed by the media and public alike.
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Hi elphick
From what I gather these photograph's are not for public information under the 30 year rule. I also understand that they were stolen or have been received by mistake. I was reading a letter by Jeremy which is on another forum last night and he says in that letter that he had come across photo's and documents that are under the PII and that the Essex police had asked for them back....but he refuses to give them back. I am under the impression that if these were exposed it could mean someone could be arrested, because they were obtained unlawfully.
If there is such a photo and Jeremy gets his appeal then would it not be better that these were exposed during that appeal and not before? It could be too his advantage and could change public opinion? :)
If the alleged photograph exists and has been withheld under PII and such an alleged photograph later enters the public domain then by definition the alleged photgraph will be new evidence.
If the alleged photgraph exist and it subsequently exposes a major miscarriage of justice then no one will be arrested and no one will be prosecuted. As a consequence the alleged photograph would also be evidence in itself for a significant misuse of PII. This would then potentially have very serious consequences for those who have be involved in surpressing the alleged photograph.
However, whilst the alleged photograph remains alleged all this remains immaterial.
If the alleged photgraph exists it is potentially DYNAMITE as stated previously.
If the alleged photograph does not exist then the credibility of those involved becomes zero in my opinion.
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I'm assuming that these photo's are part of the 200+ that should have been produced at Jeremy's first trial back in 1986/7.?
If so,I don't think it matters who sees them at this juncture,because had there been a fairer trial at the onset,they,along with the thousands of unseen
documents would have paved the way for a more in-depth investigation rather than the shambolic and totally biased opinions of
the jury being swayed by the media and public alike.
Hi lookout
The photo Mike is talking about is one of Sheila laying on the bed. Mike stole this photo form Jeremy's from one of Jeremy's old solicitors in 2004. The photo is protected under the public information (PII)
Mike claims he sent this photo to Jeremy and the photo was intercepted and Jeremy never got the photo. But, Mike says he has a copy of it on his hard drive....
If there is a photo of Sheila on the bed, then it would prove her body had been moved at some stage, whilst scenes of crime officers took photo's of the crime scene.
Have you looked in the archives at the photo's lookout? :)
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Hi Patti....again I was under the assumption that,from the start of the investigation,that any evidence that might have been,was corrupt
and that Sheila's body had been moved anyway,as " stage-managed, according to the Essex police,or someone attached to them.
My thoughts on that subject will remain unspoken for the time being.
I haven't looked at the photo's,but I've got a feeling I won't be surprised when I do see them.
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If the alleged photograph exists and has been withheld under PII and such an alleged photograph later enters the public domain then by definition the alleged photgraph will be new evidence.
If the alleged photgraph exist and it subsequently exposes a major miscarriage of justice then no one will be arrested and no one will be prosecuted. As a consequence the alleged photograph would also be evidence in itself for a significant misuse of PII. This would then potentially have very serious consequences for those who have be involved in surpressing the alleged photograph.
However, whilst the alleged photograph remains alleged all this remains immaterial.
If the alleged photgraph exists it is potentially DYNAMITE as stated previously.
If the alleged photograph does not exist then the credibility of those involved becomes zero in my opinion.
I agree with what you are saying. If Mike has the alleged photograph they why after 10 days is that alleged photograph still on his hard drive? And, why say at first he never took a copy....then go onto say it was on an old hard drive?
I would have thought that Mike would have pulled all stops he could, to have exposed it....and if this forum is monitored from outside media etc then they already know that such an alleged photograph might exist..... The mind boggles. :)
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Hi Patti....again I was under the assumption that,from the start of the investigation,that any evidence that might have been,was corrupt
and that Sheila's body had been moved anyway,as " stage-managed, according to the Essex police,or someone attached to them.
My thoughts on that subject will remain unspoken for the time being.
I haven't looked at the photo's,but I've got a feeling I won't be surprised when I do see them.
I think it was staged managed lookout...I will bring the thread up on "Spot the difference" there are at least 6 differences in two shots.....:)
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The photo is pretty pointless anyway, it would just show that the Police tampered with the scene, it doesn't prove what actually happened either way because EVERYONE knows the Police investigation was botched - even people who think he's guilty will admit that. The evidence needed to clear him remains under Pii for the very reason it would clear him.
There is more than enough evidence in the public domain to show that his trial was unfair and if this was any other case the person would have been released years ago...FACT.....can anyone name any other case where so much evidence exists to show an unfair conviction with that person still doing time?
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Dead bodies are quite flexible, up to a point of course,and after saying that, if Sheila's body was " moved about ",that in itself proves that she
certainly was the last one to die ( Jeremy was outside the farmhouse at this stage ) before rigor mortis sets in,,,which is approximately 2
hours after death,,,,so the time-scales in this case are a vital part of the investigation.
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Dead bodies are quite flexible, up to a point of course,and after saying that, if Sheila's body was " moved about ",that in itself proves that she
certainly was the last one to die ( Jeremy was outside the farmhouse at this stage ) before rigor mortis sets in,,,which is approximately 2
hours after death,,,,so the time-scales in this case are a vital part of the investigation.
lookout, if rigour mortise had set if for 4 to 5 hours, would her arm be so flexible to have moved it? :)
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Hi lonny,,,yes I knew of a recent case which was well and truly botched,,,but because it's not reached its final decision
I don't feel comfortable in mentioning it. I knew the person involved,in a professional capacity at the time of it going to court.
It will prove,at some point,another miscarriage of justice has been carried out.
Another lot of " dragging of feet " has been on display with the Jeremy Bamber case,when it could/should have reached its verdict years
ago.That of not guilty.!
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lookout, if rigour mortise had set if for 4 to 5 hours, would her arm be so flexible to have moved it? :)
We need a mortuary worker on this thread
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We need a mortuary worker on this thread
lonny it also begs another question that might not have been asked at the original trial....Was her arm easy to move? If it was, then surely this in its self, means she had not been dead for 4 to 5 hours. :)
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You really must sto calling him 'loony', it might catch on!
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You really must sto calling him 'loony', it might catch on!
Hahahah Bridget....Where did I do that...schhhhhhhhhh! lol :)
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Patti,,,,after 4 or 5 hours after a person's death,,,,,the moving of limbs would prove far more difficult,,,as opposed to while there was
a modicum of warmth left within the body. Besides that,,,the body,,,internal organs will have begun to break down ( decomposition ),,,and certain chemical
changes in the body would have taken place. This is why bodies are usually removed within the hour of death and taken to a mortuary within their
refrigeration department.
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You'd have had the flies in if she'd lain there for hours,to say nothing of a slight pong.
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We need a mortuary worker on this thread
We do. It is Mertol.
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Patti,,,,after 4 or 5 hours after a person's death,,,,,the moving of limbs would prove far more difficult,,,as opposed to while there was
a modicum of warmth left within the body. Besides that,,,the body,,,internal organs will have begun to break down ( decomposition ),,,and certain chemical
changes in the body would have taken place. This is why bodies are usually removed within the hour of death and taken to a mortuary within their
refrigeration department.
Except of course when the victim has been dead for 24 hours or so. A police photographer I knew (he died the other day actually) said that sometimes the bodies wrre green when they found them.
After a time the muscles do relax though.
Sheila's body didn't appear to be in rigor though. If she was then police would not have been able to move her arm, let alone her whole body as some suppose.
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Patti,it is also known that the greater amount of physical exertion before death,the sooner rigor mortis
sets in,so with all that running about up and downstairs,adrenaline pumping round her body,chances are that it
wouldn't have taken that long for her to become much " stiffer " than the norm. As after the normal 12 hour period of the
complete rigor mortis,in Sheila's case,it would have been sooner.
It's these medicolegal implications that are used to assess the time of death.
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Patti,it is also known that the greater amount of physical exertion before death,the sooner rigor mortis
sets in,so with all that running about up and downstairs,adrenaline pumping round her body,chances are that it
wouldn't have taken that long for her to become much " stiffer " than the norm. As after the normal 12 hour period of the
complete rigor mortis,in Sheila's case,it would have been sooner.
It's these medicolegal implications that are used to assess the time of death.
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So Cook moved her arm, but I don't think he was asked if it was stiff or not? I think it would have been difficult to have moved her arm if rigour mortise had set in for 4 maybe 5 hours...:)
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So Cook moved her arm, but I don't think he was asked if it was stiff or not? I think it would have been difficult to have moved her arm if rigour mortise had set in for 4 maybe 5 hours...:)
Rigor tends to set in after around 2 hours someone said. The cops broke in at around 8am. So do a bit of arithmatic and waddaya left with?
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Coook arrived at 9:30 :)
The arm was moved prior to making the gun safe..... >:(
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Coook arrived at 9:30 :)
The arm was moved prior to making the gun safe..... >:(
Well that means that she died very late and near to when the cops moved in? That is if there was no rigor mortice?
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I'm just reading the report and Cook says the only time the gun was moved, is when it was taken off the body, made safe and leaned it at the window.
He goes on the say that this was done after PC Bird had finished his photographing; then Bird continued to take photo's outside the bedroom....
G, this can't be true, because we have pictures in the archives that show the gun in two positions...:)
Someone it telling porkies....:)
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Makes you wonder if Cook was in a parallel universe, Patti.
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Hi Maggie, how's you? It appears that Cook took photo's in that bedroom twice according to this....
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Hi Maggie, how's you? It appears that Cook took photo's in that bedroom twice according to this....
Well we've seen at least 3 on the forum.
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Any update available on the recovery of the picture of Sheila on the bed?
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Any update available on the recovery of the picture of Sheila on the bed?
YES!.......Not. :(
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YES!.......Not. :(
I was wondering if I should contact the official site and put them in touch with Mike directly? http://jeremybamber.wufoo.com/forms/contact-us/
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I was wondering if I should contact the official site and put them in touch with Mike directly? http://jeremybamber.wufoo.com/forms/contact-us/
Whatever you do I guarantee that it won't result in a picture of Sheila on the bed, with or without various wounds, blood or knickers.
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I was wondering if I should contact the official site and put them in touch with Mike directly? http://jeremybamber.wufoo.com/forms/contact-us/
Cook did go into the main bedroom twice to take photographs....
I notice blood runs upwards and into her eye, that could mean a number of things, it could mean she was lifted and her head fell back. But, this would mean that she was still bleeding...
Or she could have been knocked back when she was shot, but this does not tie in with the blood flow from the wounds from her neck, which flow to the right.
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Cook did go into the main bedroom twice to take photographs....
I notice blood runs upwards and into her eye.....
If her head fell back Patti the blood surely would have run. down her throat. In fact if she was just lying flat on her back the blood would run down her throat. Even if her toungue had fallen back and throat muscles had relaxed the blood would still have drained down her throat.imo
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In the photograph of Sheila on the bed, with one wound to neck, there is no other blood visible except a dried, faded, vertical bloodstain under the lower entry wound. It must have been been the site of this that fooled Craig into mistakenly pronouncing her as being dead at 8.44am.
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If her head fell back Patti the blood surely would have run. down her throat. In fact if she was just lying flat on her back the blood would run down her throat. Even if her toungue had fallen back and throat muscles had relaxed the blood would still have drained down her throat.imo
Hi Maggie, I think the blood is from her nose, it runs backwards up her cheek and into her eye. I'll have another look...:)
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Yeah, the blood looks like it had come from her nose and fell back into her eye, then forward again onto the blood coming from her mouth....Like her head went back then forward, a sudden jolt????
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Hi Maggie, I think the blood is from her nose, it runs backwards up her cheek and into her eye. I'll have another look...:)
Patti the blood from her nose should run down her throat unless she has been moved
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Like her head went back then forward, a sudden jolt?
This has been suggested many times on this forum, by numerous posters.
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Patti the blood from her nose should run down her throat unless she has been moved
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This has been suggested many times on this forum, by numerous posters.
Sorry I didn't know....:)
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Patti the blood from her nose should run down her throat unless she has been moved
These are all signs that she had been moved.
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In the photograph of Sheila on the bed, with one wound to neck, there is no other blood visible except a dried, faded, vertical bloodstain under the lower entry wound. It must have been been the site of this that fooled Craig into mistakenly pronouncing her as being dead at 8.44am.
Sheila's nose started to bleed whilst police lifted her body into position on the bedroom floor. it is not yet clear to which entry wound this nose bleed was / is related to? But I personally think the nose bleed is associated with the first wound because blood from the upper wound does not replicate the direction of blood flow from the nose...
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Sorry I didn't know....:)
It wasn't a criticism, quite the opposite :)
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Sheila's nose started to bleed whilst police lifted her body into position on the bedroom floor. it is not yet clear to which entry wound this nose bleed was / is related to? But I personally think the nose bleed is associated with the first wound because blood from the upper wound does not replicate the direction of blood flow from the nose...
admittedly, niether does the blood which originally ran vertically from underneath the lower entry wound, but tbat blood had already dried..
This leads me to suspect, that blood which bled from the nose, gathered in Sheila's throat, mouth and nasal passage, and spilled from her left nostril during movement of the body by police...
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I agree, she was definitely moved, the photographs confirm that. Dose this mean that she was still bleeding when she was moved?
If she was found in that position, surely she would have had an injury to her head form the cabinet, but no injury was reported by the pathologist....It could be that he didn't look and did not know the position she was claimed to have been found in...:)
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I agree, she was definitely moved, the photographs confirm that. Dose this mean that she was still bleeding when she was moved?
If she was found in that position, surely she would have had an injury to her head form the cabinet, but no injury was reported by the pathologist....It could be that he didn't look and did not know the position she was claimed to have been found in...:)
yes, I think the first wound was still bleeding internally, whilst externally the bleeding from the lower wound had stopped and dried in a vertical fashion...
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It wasn't a criticism, quite the opposite :)
Hi Rochford :) No worries.....I hope you don't think I am a parrot lol
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yes, I think the first wound was still bleeding internally, whilst externally the bleeding from the lower wound had stopped and dried in a vertical fashion...
Having said that, I am prepared to accept that the nose bleed could be linked or associated to the upper fatal wound under the chin, in the following circumstances...
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(1) - Sheila was on bed with a solitary wound to neck
(2) - during training exercise, mishandling of weapon on body, resulted in a second wound bring inflicted on neck...
(3) - realizing that Sheila was still alive, fingers were placed over the upper entry wound whilst her body was lifted from the bed to the floor, at which time her head lolled back and forth, and to the left, so that blood that ran from the nose, lt corresponding trails of blood which had flowed in different directions on her face...
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Mike
Sheilas head must have been moved from side to side to get the blood running on her face like that. I would also reckon that was red oxygenated blood running out of sheilas mouth and neck. I am not an expert however and it is only a photo.
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Any progress with the recovery of the photo from any one of the hard drives? Can anyone from the forum offer to help Mike if they live nearby?
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Any progress with the recovery of the photo from any one of the hard drives? Can anyone from the forum offer to help Mike if they live nearby?
Toynb has offered as has somebody else,possibly Bob, but Mike has not responded I don't believe
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Toynb has offered as has somebody else,possibly Bob, but Mike has not responded I don't believe
I know specialists in this field worldwide.
think MTs fell out with me... :'(
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I apologise for the condition of the edited photograph I am posting but for the purpose of giving everyone an idea of what the wound on Sheila's neck looks like, this brings the point home:-
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How could Sheila be on the bed with this solitary wound to her neck, and then later be photographed on the bedroom floor with two wounds to her neck, and Jeremy Bamber be guilty of killing his sister and stage managing her body on the bedroom floor to try to make out that she had taken her own life?
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How could Sheila be on the bed with this solitary wound to her neck, and then later be photographed on the bedroom floor with two wounds to her neck, and Jeremy Bamber be guilty of killing his sister and stage managing her body on the bedroom floor to try to make out that she had taken her own life?
Have you had any joy getting hold of that other photo yet Mike? You said in another thread that you thought June fought with Ralph, where would that fit in with the sequence of events in your opinion, was Sheila ever a 'body' spotted in the kitchen? Or do you believe that when the police arrived on the scene with JB she was on the bed with a non-fatal gun shot wound?
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I apologise for the condition of the edited photograph I am posting but for the purpose of giving everyone an idea of what the wound on Sheila's neck looks like, this brings the point home:-
Mike
In my opinion it would be a lot better if you were to post a copy of the alleged photograph as opposed to a mock up.
From the mock up it appears the single gun shot wound was not bleeding. Is this correct?
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Mike
In my opinion it would be a lot better if you were to post a copy of the alleged photograph as opposed to a mock up.
From the mock up it appears the single gun shot wound was not bleeding. Is this correct?
In the mock up image which represents the single shot to the neck of Sheila on the bed, the single shot in question had stopped bleeding altogether, all that was left was the vertical trail beneath the entry wound as depicted (unedited) in the mock photograph. If the two shots were inflicted to Sheila within moments of each other as alleged by the prosecutions case, how could the lower entry wound stop bleeding, and then start bleeding again, so that when it started bleeding again blood presumably ran in a different direction than it had originally, and parallel with the blood which ran from the second entry wound above? If you study the mock image which as I say shows how the solitary wound was upon Sheila's neck before the second wound was inflicted, you can see that blood which originally ran from the wound, had stopped running altogether, and dried. Since the direction of this blood trail is vertical Sheila must have been upright in position when it was inflicted to the right side of her neck, with the angle of the weapon at about a 45 degree angle when it was offered up into positioned to fire the shot...
This is in stark contrast to the characteristics of the second upper entry wound, which was inflicted with the weapon flush to the body so that the barrel of the gun ended up beneath the chin...
I believe that there are clear features present here, to enable us to make an accurate guess that the two wounds upon Sheila's neck were not inflicted within moments of each other, since blood which trailed from the first lower entry wound had managed to dry before the upper second wound was inflicted. Not only that but the angle at which each wound was inflicted is vastly different. For example, the upper fatal wound beneath the chin, was inflicted with the gun flush to the body and this is consistent with it going off accidentally through mishandling by the police. This mishandling came at a time when police were present inside the building, and the victims had already been pronounced as being dead by the police surgeon, Dr Craig. It must follow, that iof at 8:44am when Craig pronounced Sheila as being dead she only had a solitary wound to her neck, that the second shot must have been and was inflicted afterwards, and of course, prior to the taking control of the scene by SOC at 10am...
A lot happened inside whf between 8:44am and 10 am that morning which Essex police do not want anyone to know about, events which involved firearms officers carrying out a training exercise with the bodies still in situ. It was whilst these training exercises were being carried out inside whf between 8:44am and 10am, that the second shot was fired which injured and killed Sheila. What appears to have happened is that a loaded rifle was left atop Sheila's body and a member of the team which took part in the training exercise handled the weapon whilst it was on Sheila's body activating the trigger not thinking that anyone had checked and made it safe. It now turns out that one of the original members of the raid team which forced entry into the premises at around 7:30am (PS Woodcock) removed the rifle and made it safe at around 11.15am. If true no-one had previously checked to see if the gun was in a safe condition, unless you accept what DI Cook had to say about how the rifle in photograph 23 ended up to be leaning against the bedroom window? If what Cook says took place regarding how the rifle transmigrated from Sheila's body to the bedroom window is true, then what Woodcock says happened is not true. If the rifle was not made safe, or checked to see if it was still loaded until 11:15am, by Woodcock, then Cook has lied, or and he handled the rifle on Sheila's body at a time when it still could have been loaded. If Cooks version of events is true, did he shoot Sheila whilst in the process of moving her right hand and arm upon and around the gun? Did he shoot Sheila whilst removing the rifle from her body to stand it against the bedroom window?
Worse still...
If Cook removed the rifle from Sheila's body and placed it against the bedroom window, who put it back onto Sheila's body, in time for Woodcock to come along and make the rifle safe at 11:15am?
There is another twist...
According to PI Montgomery, he removed the rifle from Sheila's body and made it safe...
So, it begs the question, did Montgomery accidentally shoot Sheila whilst he was removing the rifle from atop Sheila's body?
One thing remains clear, and that is depending upon which version of events you choose to believe, the rifle was removed from Sheila's body on no less than three separate occasions, by Cook, Montgomery and Woodcock. All three were present at the scene when the training exercises took place and when Sheila was shot for the second time...
Finally...
as if to hit the nail on the head, so to speak, there was and is no mention of any member of the firearms team checking the rifle and making it safe during the initial entry into the premises. It appeares as though the rifle was left well alone by everuone concerned, and perhaps this was why Sheila ended up getting shot for the second time, long after she had already been pronounced as being dead by the police surgeon, Dr Craig at 8:44am...
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Hi Mike I am just reading Woodcock's statement. I am slightly confused where the white side meets the green side and the stairs?
He says upon breaking entry to the external door, was a door inside on the right leading into the kitchen, opposite that was a another door facing the black side and, along side this door was a set of stairs...Where do these stairs lead too? :)
So the back stairs door was closed according to Woodcock, these are the stairs we see in the pictures.
He also says the 12 bore was in the cupboard in the office. Not according to Bird's photo's it was it was cocked upon the wall....who moved that?
This bit re the office and the gun cupboard is important.....Because the so called moderator was found in that cupboard and there were no signs of blood on the floor or on the box or bag it was in and that door was bolted. :)
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I'm confused with this office door because it was bolted from the inside. No blood in this office, no trace of anyone that had been in a crime scene who must have had blood on them and their feet having been in that office where the moderator was found......
Have I got the right office, which is at the opposite side of the white side?
Why did I think it was the back stairs from the kitchen that led to the main bedroom??????? This is not so is it?
It was the stairs that we have in the archives that shows the gun leaning on the window....I'm so thick....lololol
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How can a dog get under the main bedroom bed? It looks like the bed was very close to the ground, except for a few inches...???
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Hi Mike I am just reading Woodcock's statement. I am slightly confused where the white side meets the green side and the stairs?
He says upon breaking entry to the external door, was a door inside on the right leading into the kitchen, opposite that was a another door facing the black side and, along side this door was a set of stairs...Where do these stairs lead too? :)
So the back stairs door was closed according to Woodcock, these are the stairs we see in the pictures.
He also says the 12 bore was in the cupboard in the office. Not according to Bird's photo's it was it was cocked upon the wall....who moved that?
If the magazine in the gun was empty and no bullet left in the breech. Then surely the magazine was not filled up to it's 10 capacity.
I think I'm talking to myself here...lol I'd best stop before I'm escorted to the funny farm...:)
This bit re the office and the gun cupboard is important.....Because the so called moderator was found in that cupboard and there were no signs of blood on the floor or on the box or bag it was in and that door was bolted. :)
Woodcock says he made the gun safe at 11:10
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Woodcock's Statement: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,609.msg13181.html#msg13181
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I am just reading Woodcock's statement. I am slightly confused where the white side meets the green side and the stairs?
He says upon breaking entry to the external door, was a door inside on the right leading into the kitchen, opposite that was a another door facing the black side and, along side this door was a set of stairs... Where do these stairs lead too? :)
This bit re the office and the gun cupboard is important..... Because the so called moderator was found in that cupboard and there were no signs of blood on the floor or on the box or bag it was in and that door was bolted. :)
The front of the house is denoted Red, and the side with the kitchen is denoted White. Opposite Red and White are Green and Black respectively. The statement of WPc Julia Jeapes seems to reference colours incorrectly.
On entry via the external door on the White side, there was a door to the kitchen on the right (Red) and a door (not bolted) to the room with the gun cupboard to the left (Green). Straight ahead, there was apparently visible a third external door (bolted) on Black side. The nearby staircase provides access to the upstairs office and a storeroom. The police couldn't go via that storeroom to the rest of the house, as the connecting door was secured on Red side. The main staircase (to the bedrooms) can be accessed from the front door (on Red side). The kitchen has a second door to a corridor that leads to the main staircase and front door. The kitchen also has doors to a room (on Black side) behind the kitchen (the pantry) and to a third staircase, which also provides access to the main first floor.
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Mike
In my opinion it would be a lot better if you were to post a copy of the alleged photograph as opposed to a mock up.
Since it's now been almost 3 weeks, I would have thought that providing a copy of the photograph, rather than this mock up would have been much more helpful. Hopefully the forum would be united in wanting this as a priority.
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I have read that a hacksaw blade was found at the scene by a relative sometime after the murders.
I am wondering why the EP didn't find it at the time, also, why was it left lying about!. If JB had used it to gain access to the house to commit the crime, would he have left it there?
Why was it left to the relatives to produce it along with the moderators ?
notice on the inside of the cubicle door of a public convenience
BEWARE OF LIMBO DANCERS
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I too read about that Haughton,and yes,how strange that the relatives seem to find what everyone else can't.!!!
Along with that, i also read about the fuss and palava over Sheila's knickers,as apparently,when she was found,she wasn't wearing any. They were soaking in a bucket,to which Anne Eaton took them back to her house.?????
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I have read that a hacksaw blade was found at the scene by a relative sometime after the murders.
I am wondering why the EP didn't find it at the time, also, why was it left lying about!. If JB had used it to gain access to the house to commit the crime, would he have left it there?
Why was it left to the relatives to produce it along with the moderators ?
notice on the inside of the cubicle door of a public convenience
BEWARE OF LIMBO DANCERS
Hi Haughton: I'read that too, but also that it was rusty? Did anyone do a test on that blade to see if it had been used? I doubt they just took everything the extended said and booked him...on their evidence alone.....
Would they be female or Male limbo dancers? lol :)
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I too read about that Haughton,and yes,how strange that the relatives seem to find what everyone else can't.!!!
Along with that, i also read about the fuss and palava over Sheila's knickers,as apparently,when she was found,she wasn't wearing any. They were soaking in a bucket,to which Anne Eaton took them back to her house.?????
Interesting lookout. Why would someone who is contemplating on suicide put her knickers to soak, put a clean nightie on, yet no clean knickers, then shoot herself after she has shot her family?
It has been suggested that she showered to cleanse herself of her sins....? :)
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Bear in mind that the house had recently been redecorated, yet no marks were found on the recently painted window.
I suppose it could be argued that Jeremy had already shot everyone at 10 pm, and then exited through the window knocking the latch back into place. :(
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patti,for certain anatomical reasons limbo dancers are always male, work it out
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I have read that a hacksaw blade was found at the scene by a relative sometime after the murders.
I am wondering why the EP didn't find it at the time, also, why was it left lying about!. If JB had used it to gain access to the house to commit the crime, would he have left it there?
Why was it left to the relatives to produce it along with the moderators ?
notice on the inside of the cubicle door of a public convenience
BEWARE OF LIMBO DANCERS
[/color]
;D ;D
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The front of the house is denoted Red, and the side with the kitchen is denoted White. Opposite Red and White are Green and Black respectively. The statement of WPc Julia Jeapes seems to reference colours incorrectly.
On entry via the external door on the White side, there was a door to the kitchen on the right (Red) and a door (not bolted) to the room with the gun cupboard to the left (Green). Straight ahead, there was apparently visible a third external door (bolted) on Black side. The nearby staircase provides access to the upstairs office and a storeroom. The police couldn't go via that storeroom to the rest of the house, as the connecting door was secured on Red side. The main staircase (to the bedrooms) can be accessed from the front door (on Red side). The kitchen has a second door to a corridor that leads to the main staircase and front door. The kitchen also has doors to a room (on Black side) behind the kitchen (the pantry) and to a third staircase, which also provides access to the main first floor.
Hi Reader, nearly missed your post....I will have to study this, for I am not good at absorbing things easily......Am I right in saying there were 4 doors leading form the kitchen....God knows why I want to know this....but it helps me to think....:)
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patti,for certain anatomical reasons limbo dancers are always male, work it out
Hahahah I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :)
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Interesting lookout. Why would someone who is contemplating on suicide put her knickers to soak, put a clean nightie on, yet no clean knickers, then shoot herself after she has shot her family?
It has been suggested that she showered to cleanse herself of her sins....? :)
I see nothing wrong in Sheila putting her knickers in to soak, as this may have been habitual, and a practice she normally did.
Perhaps she did not take enough knickers with her for a weekend visit. Don't how often girls changed their underwear in them days or even today.
Perhaps that after soiling her knickers she felt the need to shower, and noticed the Pargeter rifle. Hmm
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Buddy,the query about the drawers and " bloody " water is whether it was menstrual blood or had Sheila used them to wipe blood from a particular area/person before putting them into a bucket. But why would Anne Eaton take something like that which may well have been used/needed.? DNA could still have been taken.
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Patti, what does lolo mean ?
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Buddy,the query about the drawers and " bloody " water is whether it was menstrual blood or had Sheila used them to wipe blood from a particular area/person before putting them into a bucket. But why would Anne Eaton take something like that which may well have been used/needed.? DNA could still have been taken.
That's right. Ann Eaton was so ready to hand over any evidence in relation to Jeremy, but failed to hand over two pairs of blood soiled knickers in one bucket and a pair of jogging bottoms in another....Like you say lookout she took them home....why? :)
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Although I think that JB never had a fair trial I am really sceptical of this photo.
It seems there are oodles of them about, yet none have been made public.
I would love Mike to shoot me down in flames, but remain unconvinced that this photo exists.
All the clandestine meetings that Mike has had from one end of the country to the other has produced no further evidence, in fact it has muddied the water.
Everything that is now posted has been discussed before, and we are now regurgitating it, nothing new! Perhaps folks should read ALL the statements that are available so we have a serious debate.
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Buddy,the query about the drawers and " bloody " water is whether it was menstrual blood or had Sheila used them to wipe blood from a particular area/person before putting them into a bucket. But why would Anne Eaton take something like that which may well have been used/needed.? DNA could still have been taken.
At that time Ann thought it was a murder/suicide, and thought she was doing what was right.
It was only later that Robert had a different theory.
It is clear that Robert disliked Jeremy.
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At that time Ann thought it was a murder/suicide, and thought she was doing what was right.
It was only later that Robert had a different theory.
It is clear that Robert disliked Jeremy.
That's a very valid point.
I have known people do really quite extraordinary things at suicide scenes, both before and after the emergency services have arrived. When someone commits suicide, the surviving relatives often finds what follows deeply invasive, and while they're grieving they aren't always rational either.
I've known relatives to hide completely bizarre things that have no relevance at all to what has happened to their loved one. It's possible that they are just desperate to preserve their memory, I suppose.
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Buddy,it's clear that none of the odious family liked,nor trusted each other either,as there was much squabbling after the deaths as to who died first which would indicate who,in the family,was in line for their legacy. Because it wasn't established which member of the family died first, there was over a decade of who gets what. ! Yes,I know only too well what sort of a family that Jeremy was up against. Contrary to belief,Jeremy wasn't like that and was probably the black sheep of the family because he wasn't as money orientated as the rest of them.
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It would not have been in Jeremy's interest to have killed any of his family at all,as he'd have known that any money going to him he'd have relinquished as soon as the cuffs were put on,so where was his motive.??????? If anyone,it was Sheila herself who had motives a'plenty,as well as a deranged mind.
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Buddy,it's clear that none of the odious family liked,nor trusted each other either,as there was much squabbling after the deaths as to who died first which would indicate who,in the family,was in line for their legacy. Because it wasn't established which member of the family died first, there was over a decade of who gets what. ! Yes,I know only too well what sort of a family that Jeremy was up against. Contrary to belief,Jeremy wasn't like that and was probably the black sheep of the family because he wasn't as money orientated as the rest of them.
I don't think that the family was odious, but were persuaded by Robert.
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Buddy I think even in the Documentary CTSB Anne Eaton was described as Miss Marple
Her behaviour after the murders was every bit as strange as Jeremys
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That's a very valid point.
I have known people do really quite extraordinary things at suicide scenes, both before and after the emergency services have arrived. When someone commits suicide, the surviving relatives often finds what follows deeply invasive, and while they're grieving they aren't always rational either.
I've known relatives to hide completely bizarre things that have no relevance at all to what has happened to their loved one. It's possible that they are just desperate to preserve their memory, I suppose.
People behave in very strange ways when they 're shocked. Suicide is utterly appalling to the people left behind. It is so dreadfully difficult to ever come to terms with.
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Digressing from this case,but to my mind still has the same implications as Sheila,and women like her,is the latest sad news about the woman from Wandsworth who today,murdered her two babies because she was suffering from post-natal depression.
Far more research should go into the reasons why some " hormonal " women,kill. If this problem is either ignored or overlooked,it can,and does lead to drastic results.
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Digressing from this case,but to my mind still has the same implications as Sheila,and women like her,is the latest sad news about the woman from Wandsworth who today,murdered her two babies because she was suffering from post-natal depression.
Far more research should go into the reasons why some " hormonal " women,kill. If this problem is either ignored or overlooked,it can,and does lead to drastic results.
That is so true lookout. It has always happened, we are more aware of it today because it used to be hushed up in the past. I don't know why it was thought unlikely that a woman with schizophrenia, an illness which has a high suicide rate was not capable of killing her children. Considering her symptoms and hallucinations around her children, it was waiting to happen. However, to accuse Sheila of murder is so wrong, personally I feel it started as a suicide by Sheila taking her children with her and she may have been discovered by June or Ralph.
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I agree Maggie.as besides Sheila being ill,she was also indoctrinated by June with her bible episodes. June also being a bit on the odd side as well with an obvious misunderstanding just how desperate Sheila's illness was when she spoke openly on adopting the boys.
I do think that was the complete turning point that tipped Sheila over the edge. Anyone with an understanding of paranoid schizophrenics knows that they are capable of such murders/killings. Be it that she was only slightly built,but would have had the strength of ten men,coupled with a hormonal imbalance along with the imbibement of cannabis and medication,presents a cocktail as powerful as any discus-thrower.
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I have no doubt at all that Sheila shot at and killed other victims, but I do not think she fired the second shot under the chin which killed her, photographic evidence taken at the scene by police proves that Sheila could only have shot herself once (lower entry wound). I think that once the original shot was fired, the external bleeding ceased very quickly, but the damage caused internally ensured that she was still bleeding inside...
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Buddy,it's clear that none of the odious family liked,nor trusted each other either,as there was much squabbling after the deaths as to who died first which would indicate who,in the family,was in line for their legacy. Because it wasn't established which member of the family died first, there was over a decade of who gets what. ! Yes,I know only too well what sort of a family that Jeremy was up against. Contrary to belief,Jeremy wasn't like that and was probably the black sheep of the family because he wasn't as money orientated as the rest of them.
This is a joke?
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Buddy,it's clear that none of the odious family liked,nor trusted each other either,as there was much squabbling after the deaths as to who died first which would indicate who,in the family,was in line for their legacy. Because it wasn't established which member of the family died first, there was over a decade of who gets what. ! Yes,I know only too well what sort of a family that Jeremy was up against. Contrary to belief,Jeremy wasn't like that and was probably the black sheep of the family because he wasn't as money orientated as the rest of them.
Lookout, please exert caution when describing people linked to the case. The family are victims of a tragedy, regardless of how any financial wranglings played out in the aftermath of the incident.
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I have no doubt at all that Sheila shot at and killed other victims, but I do not think she fired the second shot under the chin which killed her, photographic evidence taken at the scene by police proves that Sheila could only have shot herself once (lower entry wound). I think that once the original shot was fired, the external bleeding ceased very quickly, but the damage caused internally ensured that she was still bleeding inside...
What photographic evidence proves this?
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I agree Maggie.as besides Sheila being ill,she was also indoctrinated by June with her bible episodes. June also being a bit on the odd side as well with an obvious misunderstanding just how desperate Sheila's illness was when she spoke openly on adopting the boys.
I do think that was the complete turning point that tipped Sheila over the edge. Anyone with an understanding of paranoid schizophrenics knows that they are capable of such murders/killings. Be it that she was only slightly built,but would have had the strength of ten men,coupled with a hormonal imbalance along with the imbibement of cannabis and medication,presents a cocktail as powerful as any discus-thrower.
Many factors may have played a part in Sheila s breakdown, remember Daniel and Nicholas were not asked to pray at the foot of the bed they were told not by their mother but by June .
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I agree Maggie.as besides Sheila being ill,she was also indoctrinated by June with her bible episodes. June also being a bit on the odd side as well with an obvious misunderstanding just how desperate Sheila's illness was when she spoke openly on adopting the boys.
I do think that was the complete turning point that tipped Sheila over the edge. Anyone with an understanding of paranoid schizophrenics knows that they are capable of such murders/killings. Be it that she was only slightly built,but would have had the strength of ten men,coupled with a hormonal imbalance along with the imbibement of cannabis and medication,presents a cocktail as powerful as any discus-thrower.
The only person who has ever mentioned the twins being put into care is Jeremy bamber. June & Nevill couldn't have done it even if they had wanted to as it wasn't their call to make, especially as they were living with their father at the time.
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lookout, even today many people have strange attitudes to mental illness, in 1985 there was even more ignorance among the general public. In 1985 there was a massive lack of understanding and paranoid schizophrenia was little understood and tended to be hidden away. I don't really think it's fair to consider June and Ralph thoughtless when suggesting some sort of fostering but were possibly trying to find the best answer for all concerned. They apparently had little idea of how sick Sheila was, as in fact Jeremy states in an interview (guardian?).
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The only person who has ever mentioned the twins being put into care is Jeremy bamber. June & Nevill couldn't have done it even if they had wanted to as it wasn't their call to make, especially as they were living with their father at the time.
Hasn't some document recently come to light regarding this?
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Hasn't some document recently come to light regarding this?
As far as I'm aware there was social worker support for Sheila and June, Nevill and Sheila had put in place support for Sheila in Essex, all which was obviously known to Colin, but the twins could not be placed in care, as Jeremy claims, as Colin was their father and perfectly capable of supporting them as he was already doing.
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As far as I'm aware there was social worker support for Sheila and June, Nevill and Sheila had put in place support for Sheila in Essex, all which was obviously known to Colin, but the twins could not be placed in care, as Jeremy claims, as Colin was their father and perfectly capable of supporting them as he was already doing.
I've never believed that there was conversation the night of the murders about the children being taken into care because, as you say, their Dad was more than capabale to have them.
I've always felt this conversation was fabricated by Jeremy.
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I've never believed that there was conversation the night of the murders about the children being taken into care because, as you say, their Dad was more than capabale to have them.
I've always felt this conversation was fabricated by Jeremy.
Did you come to this conclusion before or after you read the ccrc refusal? As obviously this was nothing to do with the submissions?
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Was it not fostering that was allegedly discussed, as opposed to being taken in to care?
Either way, I do not believe that Jeremy Bamber would invent this as a reason to suggest (or imply) Sheila 'went berserk'.
It's too convoluted and flaky. I'm not buying it.
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I'm sure one of the family confirms something like this in one of their statements. I think it was Colin's mother that said, that she would not have let this happen. :)
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I've never believed that there was conversation the night of the murders about the children being taken into care because, as you say, their Dad was more than capabale to have them.
I've always felt this conversation was fabricated by Jeremy.
Another cunning move by him , he would have known that Colin had care of them , so why would he mention something that could so easily be rebuffed ? A bit like when he said ' i left the gun on the settle ' , when he could easily have said ' i left the gun in the gun cupboard ' !!
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Was it not fostering that was allegedly discussed, as opposed to being taken in to care?
Either way, I do not believe that Jeremy Bamber would invent this as a reason to suggest (or imply) Sheila 'went berserk'.
It's too convoluted and flaky. I'm not buying it.
Ok, so why would they discuss 'fostering' when again I ask you, was it June & Neville's call to make? When support was already in place?
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The only person who has ever mentioned the twins being put into care is Jeremy bamber. June & Nevill couldn't have done it even if they had wanted to as it wasn't their call to make, especially as they were living with their father at the time.
Vidvic, I thought there is a statement which talks about June looking around for day fostering for the boys.. I will have to check that. 8)
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Did you come to this conclusion before or after you read the ccrc refusal? As obviously this was nothing to do with the submissions?
Before.
The first time I heard of this case wasn't the CCRC submissions.
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Another cunning move by him , he would have known that Colin had care of them , so why would he mention something that could so easily be rebuffed ? A bit like when he said ' i left the gun on the settle ' , when he could easily have said ' i left the gun in the gun cupboard ' !!
I disagree completely Jon. He had to set up a seemingly believable scenario where the sights and moderator were removed but the rifle was accessible to a seemingly enraged Sheila.
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I disagree completely Jon. He had to set up a seemingly believable scenario where the sights and moderator were removed but the rifle was accessible to a seemingly enraged Sheila.
Why ?
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Did you come to this conclusion before or after you read the ccrc refusal? As obviously this was nothing to do with the submissions?
;D ;D ;D
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Vidvic, I thought there is a statement which talks about June looking around for day fostering for the boys.. I will have to check that. 8)
Yes, I think that is possible as that is what was in place as I said just now, only I wouldn't describe it as fostering, more home help.
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Before.
The first time I heard of this case wasn't the CCRC submissions.
Must have been a dream come true, being already interested in the case AND having access to the ccrc refusal. 17 reasons it was refused you say?
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I've never believed that there was conversation the night of the murders about the children being taken into care because, as you say, their Dad was more than capabale to have them.
I've always felt this conversation was fabricated by Jeremy.
So mat do you believe jeremy had a personality disorder eventho he has been found not to have any such thing. Do you believe that any person without a personality dissorder can gaily say 'tonights the night' and rush off to shoot his entire family. He would have to look these people in the eye as he shot them mat. Please explain how Jeremy Bamber found he could do this, could you?
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Must have been a dream come true, being already interested in the case AND having access to the ccrc refusal. 17 reasons it was refused you say?
I wouldn't say I was interested in it. I'd read about it in the early 90's and it had stuck in my mind. Then I heard that this case would be coming to the office - that must have been november last year when I first heard that so I read up again on it a little.
Yeah, 17. Think they cal them 'points of concern'.
So mat do you believe jeremy had a personality disorder eventho he has been found not to have any such thing. Do you believe that any person without a personality dissorder can gaily say 'tonights the night' and rush off to shoot his entire family. He would have to look these people in the eye as he shot them mat. Please explain how Jeremy Bamber found he could do this, could you?
There are hundreds of killers that have done the same as he did.
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The only person who has ever mentioned the twins being put into care is Jeremy bamber. June & Nevill couldn't have done it even if they had wanted to as it wasn't their call to make, especially as they were living with their father at the time.
With respect, I disagree. Sheila was greatly dependent on her parents' financial support.
June and Nevill bought and owned the luxury flat in London where Sheila lived with the twins. Sheila was on benefits and rarely worked, she could never have afforded this flat had her parents not financed it.
Sheila's lifestyle with her friends, who Powell calls the 'Gorgeous Girls', the clothes Sheila wore to the weekly glamour parties with lines of coke on the table that Powell states Sheila's friends told her Sheila attended - all of this was subsidised by support from Nevill and June.
This, in my opinion, suggests that June and Nevill would have had considerable influence over Sheila's and the twins lives.
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Ok, so why would they discuss 'fostering' when again I ask you, was it June & Neville's call to make? When support was already in place?
I concur most particularly as Colin already had direct involvement in terms of custody.
One would have thought Nevill and June, if they were trying to get involved would have included Colin within the discussions.
It was not as if Colin was a persona non grata at the farm............. he gave Sheila a lift to WHF for the planned week's visit.
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With respect, I disagree. Sheila was greatly dependent on her parents' financial support.
June and Nevill bought and owned the luxury flat in London where Sheila lived with the twins. Sheila was on benefits and rarely worked, she could never have afforded this flat had her parents not financed it.
Sheila's lifestyle with her friends, who Powell calls the 'Gorgeous Girls', the clothes Sheila wore to the weekly glamour parties with lines of coke on the table that Powell states Sheila's friends told her Sheila attended - all of this was subsidised by support from Nevill and June.
This, in my opinion, suggests that June and Nevill would have had considerable influence over Sheila's and the twins lives.
Influence, yes. But I'm sure if I didn't work and My Mum and Dad could afford if they would get me a house and ensure I was happy. Big difference between helping out with a house and telling you to put your kids into care.
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I've never believed that there was conversation the night of the murders about the children being taken into care because, as you say, their Dad was more than capabale to have them.
I've always felt this conversation was fabricated by Jeremy.
I believe the evidence suggests you are wrong.
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That is such a cop out, this if perpetrated by Jeremy Bamber was a cold blooded, premeditated killing of the two boys he loved his mum and dad and sister. You really believe that a totally rational person could do what he was found guilty of. You have a strange attitue to how peoples mindsd work. I would concede there may be many people who have killed in the heat of the moment but you must have a very narrow mind to believe this is in any way normal behaviour.
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So mat do you believe jeremy had a personality disorder eventho he has been found not to have any such thing. Do you believe that any person without a personality dissorder can gaily say 'tonights the night' and rush off to shoot his entire family. He would have to look these people in the eye as he shot them mat. Please explain how Jeremy Bamber found he could do this, could you?
The defence on the eve of the trial were quite despondent when a psychologist told them he believed bamber to be a psychopath. I have seen at least one tv interview where a psychologist describes bamber as a stereotypical psychopath, so am not sure what you're basing this post on? According to the official web site 26 doctors have said he's perfectly normal but who were these doctors? Why has he been tested so many times and why? Is there a list? Where is the evidence these tests were done?
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I believe the evidence suggests you are wrong.
What evidence? There is none.
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There is a lot of hearsay in this case though and what one person says as fact another will shoot down. got to read between the lines.
If a conversation did occur i don't beleive it was as serious as Jeremy makes out.
That is such a cop out, this if perpetrated by Jeremy Bamber was a cold blooded, premeditated killing of the two boys he loved his mum and dad and sister. You really believe that a totally rational person could do what he was found guilty of. You have a strange attitue to how peoples mindsd work. I would concede there may be many people who have killed in the heat of the moment but you must have a very narrow mind to believe this is in any way normal behaviour.
Not saying it is normal behaviour. But Parents have been killed over inheritence thousands of tiems. I remember working a case in 2002 where a Mother was shot by her loving son for taking away his games console.
Or there was a case recently in the papers where a son had killed his mother and set the house on fire to pretend someone else had done it.
Nothing shocks me.
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I wouldn't say I was interested in it. I'd read about it in the early 90's and it had stuck in my mind. Then I heard that this case would be coming to the office - that must have been november last year when I first heard that so I read up again on it a little.
Yeah, 17. Think they cal them 'points of concern'.
There are hundreds of killers that have done the same as he did.
17 you say?
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The defence on the eve of the trial were quite despondent when a psychologist told them he believed bamber to be a psychopath. I have seen at least one tv interview where a psychologist describes bamber as a stereotypical psychopath, so am not sure what you're basing this post on? According to the official web site 26 doctors have said he's perfectly normal but who were these doctors? Why has he been tested so many times and why? Is there a list? Where is the evidence these tests were done?
I've also seen him reffered to as a 'typical psycopath.'
But some people seem to take it as fact when others say he isn't.
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17 you say?
Points of concern? Yes.
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The defence on the eve of the trial were quite despondent when a psychologist told them he believed bamber to be a psychopath. I have seen at least one tv interview where a psychologist describes bamber as a stereotypical psychopath, so am not sure what you're basing this post on? According to the official web site 26 doctors have said he's perfectly normal but who were these doctors? Why has he been tested so many times and why? Is there a list? Where is the evidence these tests were done?
The psychologist you saw on TV as never met JB !! More nonsense !!
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The psychologist you saw on TV as never met JB !! More nonsense !!
And the 26 ones that said he isn't actually met Jeremy? He's spent hundreds of hours with different doctors then.
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The defence on the eve of the trial were quite despondent when a psychologist told them he believed bamber to be a psychopath. I have seen at least one tv interview where a psychologist describes bamber as a stereotypical psychopath, so am not sure what you're basing this post on? According to the official web site 26 doctors have said he's perfectly normal but who were these doctors? Why has he been tested so many times and why? Is there a list? Where is the evidence these tests were done?
Where did you read this ?
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And the 26 ones that said he isn't actually met Jeremy? He's spent hundreds of hours with different doctors then.
Being convicted of the crimes JB as mean's you get tested yearly , would you free him if you saw all 26 doctor's notes , would you Vic ?
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The defence on the eve of the trial were quite despondent when a psychologist told them he believed bamber to be a psychopath. I have seen at least one tv interview where a psychologist describes bamber as a stereotypical psychopath, so am not sure what you're basing this post on? According to the official web site 26 doctors have said he's perfectly normal but who were these doctors? Why has he been tested so many times and why? Is there a list? Where is the evidence these tests were done?
The results are on the forum, it is what happens in prison for high sec prisoners they test them each year.
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Being convicted of the crimes JB as mean's you get tested yearly , would you free him if you saw all 26 doctor's notes , would you Vic ?
Hell no.
He's not the only killer to pass tests like this.
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There is a lot of hearsay in this case though and what one person says as fact another will shoot down. got to read between the lines.
If a conversation did occur i don't beleive it was as serious as Jeremy makes out.
Not saying it is normal behaviour. But Parents have been killed over inheritence thousands of tiems. I remember working a case in 2002 where a Mother was shot by her loving son for taking away his games console.
Or there was a case recently in the papers where a son had killed his mother and set the house on fire to pretend someone else had done it.
Nothing shocks me.
The first about the play station sounds like heat of the moment and the second... did he have a personality disorder or psychiatric illness. I think my daughter may have shot me in the heat of the moment when I took her playstation away from her, it is not a good example and neither are comparable.
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The first about the play station sounds like heat of the moment and the second... did he have a personality disorder or psychiatric illness. I think my daughter may have shot me in the heat of the moment when I took her playstation away from her, it is not a good example and neither are comparable.
You really think your daughter wuold have shot you for taking her PS away??
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I've also seen him reffered to as a 'typical psycopath.'
But some people seem to take it as fact when others say he isn't.
Oh mat hearsay from a woman who had never met him, in a programme where they tried to make him out as someone who drove the tractor in a fairy dress or something, rubbish.
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Nothing shocks you mat ? trust me you will never see what ive seen period.
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Oh mat hearsay from a woman who had never met him, in a programme where they tried to make him out as someone who drove the tractor in a fairy dress or something, rubbish.
Jeremy had talked about killing his family before though. not just to Mugford.
Nothing shocks you mat ? trust me you will never see what ive seen period.
Okay.
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You really think your daughter wuold have shot you for taking her PS away??
Oh for goodness sake that was a joke.
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Here you go take a test....Are you a psychopath? http://www.okcupid.com/quizzy/take
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Oh for goodness sake that was a joke.
Well sorry!
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Hell no.
He's not the only killer to pass tests like this.
Did you see JB enter and leave WHF on the night in question ?
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Hell no.
He's not the only killer to pass tests like this.
He has also taken the test I have quoted so often which can be found on this forum which states that he is not hiding or deceiving the examiner about his psychopathy. He has come out of these tests as low on the likelihood of ever having signs of any personality disorder. More normal than most of us.
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Did you see JB enter and leave WHF on the night in question ?
Silly question.
Of course I didn't.
Have any jurors in any cases witnessed the crimes they are jurors on being committed? No. Don't be silly, but they still have to decide guilty or innocent.
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Apart from Mugford who else did he talk about killing his family to?
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Here you go take a test....Are you a psychopath? http://www.okcupid.com/quizzy/take
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I took the test Maggie....I dare not tell you the outcome :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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Here you go take a test....Are you a psychopath? http://www.okcupid.com/quizzy/take
Apparently so! I'm also a selfless lover and the person I am mostly likely from history is Abraham Lincoln.
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Silly question.
Of course I didn't.
Have any jurors in any cases witnessed the crimes they are jurors on being committed? No. Don't be silly, but they still have to decide guilty or innocent.
your answer as i thought it would be ah i see clearly you know nothing about law.
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I took the test Maggie....I dare not tell you the outcome :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
;D ;D ;D ;D
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your answer as i thought it would be ah i see clearly you know nothing about law.
I don't know how I'm meant to answer "did you see Jeremy enter or leave the house"...I know enough about law - lets not forget Mertol your basis of a major part of this case from from Colins book so do not throw stones.
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your answer as i thought it would be ah i see clearly you know nothing about law.
Your question had nothing to do with law.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
It told me i needed to get adventurous and kill a rabbit....Awwwwwwwwww as if I could do that, I used to choke when my mum cooked rabbit...I could never eat it or lamb. Barrrrrrrrrrrr! :D :D :D
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I don't know how I'm meant to answer "did you see Jeremy enter or leave the house"...I know enough about law - lets not forget Mertol your basis of a major part of this case from from Colins book so do not throw stones.
wrong again, i dont need colins book, how many murdered people have you seen and removed including children ?
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Apart from Mugford who else did he talk about killing his family to?
Mat who did he speak to about killing his family? Oh you mean Robert Boutflour do you.
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wrong again, i dont need colins book, how many murdered people have you seen and removed including children ?
Even if I had seen a million, I still haven't seen the boys so I can't comment on them.
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Apparently so! I'm also a selfless lover and the person I am mostly likely from history is Abraham Lincoln.
So you have disdain for ologys. You obviously believe you know better. Thats a bit arrogant isn't it mat?
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So you have disdain for ologys. You obviously believe you know better. Thats a bit arrogant isn't it mat?
Those tests are just fun on the internet and not to be taken seriously.
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There was Suzzette War d who lived with Jeremy for a few years, who said she never heard him say anything bad about his family. There was also Freddie, and someone else....
All three statements were rejected....based on Suzette being a married woman and Freddie xxxxx....Yet Julie was a thief. No matter how you look at that is seems unfair...:)
Personal attack, edited by Keira
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He has also taken the test I have quoted so often which can be found on this forum which states that he is not hiding or deceiving the examiner about his psychopathy. He has come out of these tests as low on the likelihood of ever having signs of any personality disorder. More normal than most of us.
So, he's just evil then.
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It told me i needed to get adventurous and kill a rabbit....Awwwwwwwwww as if I could do that, I used to choke when my mum cooked rabbit...I could never eat it or lamb. Barrrrrrrrrrrr! :D :D :D
According to Julie Mugford the 'nancy' boy used to feed rats cannabis before he strangled them, to get him in the mood for murder. Unfortunately most rats do not have receptors for cannabis so it is unlikely that it would have any effect. If there was an effect it would more than likely make the rats hyperactive. So that didn't work then.
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According to Julie Mugford the 'nancy' boy used to feed rats cannabis before he strangled them, to get him in the mood for murder. Unfortunately most rats do not have receptors for cannabis so it is unlikely that it would have any effect. If there was an effect it would more than likely make the rats hypoactive. So that didn't work then.
She said that he use to feed them it, not that it had any effect on them.
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So, he's just evil then.
Oh vidvic your worthy of better than that.
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There was Suzzette War d who lived with Jeremy for a few years, who said she never heard him say anything bad about his family. There was also Freddie, and someone else....
All three statements were rejected....based on Suzette being a married woman and Freddie being a foreigner....Yet Julie was a thief. No matter how you look at that is seems unfair...:)
if jeremy made one mistake it was getting involved with mugford patti who sold a story for the sum of £25,000 a lot of money then.
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She said that he use to feed them it, not that it had any effect on them.
No she said he used to feed them it so that it was easier to catch them and strangle them because they were dopey.
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According to Julie Mugford the 'nancy' boy used to feed rats cannabis before he strangled them, to get him in the mood for murder. Unfortunately most rats do not have receptors for cannabis so it is unlikely that it would have any effect. If there was an effect it would more than likely make the rats hypoactive. So that didn't work then.
If they believed what that woman said, then they would have had to believe her about Matt McDonal d
Did she ever see him give cannabis to the rats? I doubt it very much....another thing that will never be proven....that just puts Jeremy in bad light.. :)
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She said that he use to feed them it, not that it had any effect on them.
the xxxx who made £25,000 from her story one nice woman mat??
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the xxx who made £25,000 from her story one nice woman mat??
Where did I say she was nice?
I'd be very careful who you call names on the internet by the way Mertol. Calling Julie a slag could get you into trouble - peopel that post things like that on the internet are being tracked down more and more.
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if jeremy made one mistake it was getting involved with mugford patti who sold a story for the sum of £25,000 a lot of money then.
Iv'e just remembered the other one it was Brett Collin's....they did not use him, because of his sexuality.
Yes she did a tarty pose for that.....in a photo shoot. She knew what she was doing that is why she went running to Canada. :)
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There was Suzzette War d who lived with Jeremy for a few years, who said she never heard him say anything bad about his family. There was also Freddie, and someone else....
All three statements were rejected....based on Suzette being a married woman and Freddie being a foreigner....Yet Julie was a thief. No matter how you look at that is seems unfair...:)
I'm probably being a bit thick here, but who rejected these three statements and how do you conclude that it is due to marital status or nationality of those making the statements?
Are you referring to the jury?
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Oh vidvic your worthy of better than that.
I'm sorry maggie if You think that out of order, but I firmly believe bamber is where he should be and I don't think whether he is a psychopath or not makes one jot of difference.
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If they believed what that woman said, then they would have had to believe her about Matt McDonal d
Did she ever see him give cannabis to the rats? I doubt it very much....another thing that will never be proven....that just puts Jeremy in bad light.. :)
Totally Patti that is just fairyland. He may have tried to feed rats cannabis because he was a young guy and he thought it was funny. That wouldn't surprise me but to strangle them, please. Anyway as I said it was a none starter he cant have done that, they don't react to cannabis. But it was no doubt someone's good idea to get Julie to say that because we know that psychopaths are cruel to animals before they kill humans.
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Totally Patti that is just fairyland. He may have tried to feed rats cannabis because he was a young guy and he thought it was funny. That wouldn't surprise me but to strangle them, please. Anyway as I said it was a none starter he cant have done that, they don't react to cannabis. But it was no doubt someone's good idea to get Julie to say that because we know that psychopaths are cruel to animals before they kill humans.
Maybe he didn't strangle animals. But he certianly shot them...
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the slag who made £25,000 from her story one nice woman mat??
And bamber was an angelic innocent? They were a couple of toe rags both. Bamber had a 40k NOW deal all ready for his innocence at trial. He thought it should have been higher. Rivlin was disgusted with his attitude to this.
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I'm sorry maggie if You think that out of order, but I firmly believe bamber is where he should be and I don't think whether he is a psychopath or not makes one jot of difference.
You are entitled to your opinion vidvic. I just don't see how anyone could live with themselves if they were not a psychopath.
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And bamber was an angelic innocent? They were a couple of toe rags both. Bamber had a 40k NOW deal all ready for his innocence at trial. He thought it should have been higher. Rivlin was disgusted with his attitude to this.
don't know if you can post about Bambers deal. I posted about it in length last week and it dissappeared.
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You are entitled to your opinion vidvic. I just don't see how anyone could live with themselves if they were not a psychopath.
Because you are a decent human being maggie. A murderer plays by different rules.
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I'm probably being a bit thick here, but who rejected these three statements and how do you conclude that it is due to marital status or nationality of those making the statements?
Are you referring to the jury?
It was Jeremy's defence that rejected them. They felt they would not be adequate to testify due to their backgrounds, it is general knowledge....this happened. Remember that was 1986 not 2012....things are much different now, it would be seen as discrimination. :)
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Maybe he didn't strangle animals. But he certianly shot them...
Oh yes he shot rabbits apparently eventually. What has that to do with anything, farmers shoot rabbits all the time.
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Oh yes he shot rabbits apparently eventually. What has that to do with anything, farmers shoot rabbits all the time.
No point, I'm just saying. He did kill animals, which is why the gun was out the night he killed his family.
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Oh yes he shot rabbits apparently eventually. What has that to do with anything, farmers shoot rabbits all the time.
Though apparently he tried to shoot them in twilight without sights which would have assisted him in seeing them better.......
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Mat? Did you see the final draft of the ccrc's refusal?
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Mat? Did you see the final draft of the ccrc's refusal?
Well I saw a draft the day before. Can't say I would stand up in court and say that was the final draft though. I'd lean towards believing it was.
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Could we take a little more care about the terms we use? In heated discussions it's easy to get carried away and say something we don't mean. I do this too at times. Thanks, everyone. Keira x
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Well I saw a draft the day before. Can't say I would stand up in court and say that was the final draft though. I'd lean towards believing it was.
How did you see the elusive picture on the bed with one entry wound?
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And bamber was an angelic innocent? They were a couple of toe rags both. Bamber had a 40k NOW deal all ready for his innocence at trial. He thought it should have been higher. Rivlin was disgusted with his attitude to this.
Where is that recorded vidvic?
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How did you see the elusive picture on the bed with one entry wound?
I haven't seen this. I know people who have seen it and knew about it long before I knew of Mike Tesko or this forum.
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No point, I'm just saying. He did kill animals, which is why the gun was out the night he killed his family.
Mat the house was full of guns, he had no need to get his gun out; even if he had planned to get in, he would have been able to have got a gun.....It makes no difference if he left one out. None of them were under lock and key and two kiddies were staying there....All the stories about the guns being safe are hearsay.....Like it is hearsay that he got in through the window, of which there is no forensic evidence...
The office where the moderator was found, there was no blood in that office, to trace evidence that anyone from a crime scene had entered that office....
No marks on the Aga when initial photo's were taken, yet 38 days later there were....evidence and evidence is needed and there is none.....There is no evidence to support that Jeremy picked a gun up and shot his family....it is all hearsay for you know who...and that is a fact....
You give me one piece of evidence to say he committed those murders, because his bad attitude is not enough....:) Only Sayin...:)
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Where is that recorded vidvic?
Wilkes. Blood relations.
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It was Jeremy's defence that rejected them. They felt they would not be adequate to testify due to their backgrounds, it is general knowledge....this happened. Remember that was 1986 not 2012....things are much different now, it would be see as discrimination. :)
Fair enough if that is your opinion, although I hold a very different view. I'd like to think that I have an extremely strong grasp of what is, and what is not 'common knowledge' regarding this case.
Thank you for clarifying your post.
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I haven't seen this. I know people who have seen it and knew about it long before I knew of Mike Tesko or this forum.
So you'd known about it before February last year? Before 'z' handed it in?
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So you'd known about it before February last year? Before 'z' handed it in?
Not sure who Z is. But yeah, long before February last year I'd heard that a picture existed, or even pictures and that there were missing negatives.
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Fair enough if that is your opinion, although I hold a very different view. I'd like to think that I have an extremely strong grasp of what is, and what is not 'common knowledge' regarding this case.
Thank you for clarifying your post.
is this you former hartley ? you sound a little mellow/
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Not sure who Z is. But yeah, long before February last year I'd heard that a picture existed, or even pictures and that there were missing negatives.
So, when mike and 'z' were running from helicopter surveillance last year, avoiding capture of this elusive photograph, you knew all along that mike was telling the truth, but obviously you didn't read the forum then?
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So, when mike and 'z' were running from helicopter surveillance last year, avoiding capture of this elusive photograph, you knew all along that mike was telling the truth, but obviously you didn't read the forum then?
I knew that a photo of Sheila on the bed existed.
I don't know about Z though. If you'd fill me in, I'd appreciate it.
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Wilkes. Blood relations.
I will check it out. :-\ :-\ vic I do remember it was a tragedy.
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So, when mike and 'z' were running from helicopter surveillance last year, avoiding capture of this elusive photograph, you knew all along that mike was telling the truth, but obviously you didn't read the forum then?
Hadn't Mike been going on about the photo in Ewen Smith's office before Z appeared?
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I knew that a photo of Sheila on the bed existed.
I don't know about Z though. If you'd fill me in, I'd appreciate it.
I'm surprised that a forum member since feb 2011 hadn't heard of 'z'. He's probably been spoken about nearly as much as bamber before Christmas.
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Don't forget. I signed up on here and got so much abuse I just thought "fuck that forum" and left for months so I may have missed it or just not read the topic.
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Babes, you quoted instead of modified.
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Goading: Mod'd by Keira
Mike published that himself. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxan army exercise.
Goading. Mod'd by Keira
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Mike published that himself. He believed he was running from helicopters which later turned out to be an army exercise.
You're joking....
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xxxx, you quoted instead of modified.
Fook me, that's your card marked...
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As far as I'm aware there was social worker support for Sheila and June, Nevill and Sheila had put in place support for Sheila in Essex, all which was obviously known to Colin, but the twins could not be placed in care, as Jeremy claims, as Colin was their father and perfectly capable of supporting them as he was already doing.
Vic,
If the boys were never taken into care as you suggest, how could it be that the police took statements from a number of the twins foster carers?
These statements are recorded here, Vic
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Vic,
If the boys were never taken into care as you suggest, how could it be that the police took statements from a number of the twins foster carers?
These statements are recorded here, Vic
Ah, so you're talking about short term foster care in London, not the situation at the time of the murders.?
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mike tesko
Administrator
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Posts: 11397
Re: View of the informant
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2012, 06:43:AM »
Quote
I am turning phone off and removing battery until after meeting with informant, to prevent tracking...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 09:41:AM by mike tesko »
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mike tesko
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Posts: 11397
Re: View of the informant
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2012, 10:00:AM »
Quote
Met informant at rendezvous, everything is hunky dory...
Helicopters other day, army on exercise, unrelated..
Report to moderator Logged
Two posts from January from mike. How is this goading?
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Mat I have to be honest. I don't believe you. I don't believe you've seen the ccrc refusal.
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Ah, so you're talking about short term foster care in London, not the situation at the time of the murders.?
[/quotThere was never any doubt that Sheila loved her boys. She was just really sick.Vic Im sure it was day time foster care which was being talked about so that Sheila could have them close to her.
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Mike published that himself. He believed he was running from helicopters which later turned out to be an army exercise.
Are you sure, Vic? If so, I apologise.
Keira x
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mike tesko
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 11397
Re: View of the informant
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2012, 06:43:AM »
Quote
I am turning phone off and removing battery until after meeting with informant, to prevent tracking...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 09:41:AM by mike tesko »
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mike tesko
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Posts: 11397
Re: View of the informant
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2012, 10:00:AM »
Quote
Met informant at rendezvous, everything is hunky dory...
Helicopters other day, army on exercise, unrelated..
Report to moderator Logged
Two posts from January from mike. How is this goading?
Vic: Your post contained a sarcastic distortion of the above highlighted section. This was goading.
Keira x
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The boys lived with Colin! So if day fostering would mean her and the boys spending more time with her, then why would that send her into a deadly frenzy????
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Are you sure, Vic? If so, I apologise.
Keira x
Apology accepted Keira x thank you.
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The boys lived with Colin! So if day fostering would mean her and the boys spending more time with her, then why would that send her into a deadly frenzy????
I just think whatever happened was always going to happen. Dont really go along with this or that being said. One of the commonest side effects of paranoid schizophrenia is suicide. Signs leading up to psyvhotic events are dissasociation and depression. She was possibly not even hearing what was being said. I personally dont believe it was more than a suicide attempt with her and her boys which somehow escalated into a total bloodbath. Too many guns lying around.imo
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Apology accepted Keira x thank you.
Sorry, Vic, I have to retract it for the reasons given - Keira x
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Vic: Your post contained a sarcastic distortion of the above highlighted section. This was goading.
Keira x
Please don't take away my sarcasm.... Nooooooo.
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Come on, Keira! It is funny, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - it sounds like DIE HARD 5! I can see it in my head.
Mod'd by Keira
What is Die Hard 5?
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Mat I have to be honest. I don't believe you. I don't believe you've seen the ccrc refusal.
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That's fine. The last time someone said that, it was a ploy to get me to prove via PM I've seen it. So when people don't believe, that's fine. People that know me well enough know where I work and what I do so it's fine.
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Please don't take away my sarcasm.... Nooooooo.
;D ;D
You can still be humorous, Vic, you have such a great sense of humour.
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That's fine. The last time someone said that, it was a ploy to get me to prove via PM I've seen it. So when people don't believe, that's fine. People that know me well enough know where I work and what I do so it's fine.
I know, Mat.
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That's fine. The last time someone said that, it was a ploy to get me to prove via PM I've seen it. So when people don't believe, that's fine. People that know me well enough know where I work and what I do so it's fine.
Just to jump on the band wagon, I don't believe you either, but I don't have to and I don't need to be convinced. It's up to you what you want to post.
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Just to jump on the band wagon, I don't believe you either, but I don't have to and I don't need to be convinced. It's up to you what you want to post.
That's fine. Mud sticks. With all the bullshit people have posted about me - I wouldn't believe me if I was in your shoes either.
But I did tell you all about the CCRC decision, I did say why it was declined. And everything I said came true when that letter was posted by NGB.
I'm just a VERY good guesser it seems.
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That's fine. The last time someone said that, it was a ploy to get me to prove via PM I've seen it. So when people don't believe, that's fine. People that know me well enough know where I work and what I do so it's fine.
No it's not a ploy mat. I agree with a lot of your views on the case but there isn't anything accurate about your reporting of the refusal.
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No it's not a ploy mat. I agree with a lot of your views on the case but there isn't anything accurate about your reporting of the refusal.
Everything I said was accurate. Did you see the JR letter? Once that was posted I recieved PM's from people here apologising because they'd given me a hard time yet I'd told them almost word for word.
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Let's just agree to disagree.
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It's fine. I'm not going to debate it. I sensed early on that there were only two people I could fully trust to tell more than I would post on the open board, enough for them to know I'm serious and I've seen it and I've done that. One was Keira and the other was AA.
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That's fine. Mud sticks. With all the bullshit people have posted about me - I wouldn't believe me if I was in your shoes either.
But I did tell you all about the CCRC decision, I did say why it was declined. And everything I said came true when that letter was posted by NGB.
I'm just a VERY good guesser it seems.
But to be fair, you 'guessing' 30 minutes before is nothing, I made out I knew a couple of weeks before in one of my habitual wind ups, I was as accurate as you appear to be, although I most certainly have not seen any report giving the decision, then or now.
Anyway, I'm not calling you out and don't wish to cause offence, as I said, it's up to you what you post.
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But to be fair, you 'guessing' 30 minutes before is nothing, I made out I knew a couple of weeks before in one of my habitual wind ups, I was as accurate as you appear to be, although I most certainly have not seen any report giving the decision, then or now.
Anyway, I'm not calling you out and don't wish to cause offence, as I said, it's up to you what you post.
So it's people like you that make people suspicious of genuine people. I see.
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So it's people like you that make people suspicious of genuine people. I see.
So it would seem. :P
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:-[
So it's people like you that make people suspicious of genuine people. I see.
No mat ncoh or old uptight hartley still had a sense of humour.
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Though apparently he tried to shoot them in twilight without sights which would have assisted him in seeing them better.......
wots that got to do with anything?
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Ah, so you're talking about short term foster care in London, not the situation at the time of the murders.?
Hi Vic,
Are you claiming that short term foster care is not foster care?
Do we have any documents that establish that this was short term and its duration?
The situation at the time of the murders was that Colin had care of the twins 95% of the time (source: Colin's book) because Sheila had been recently released from hospital - she had been sectioned in March 1985 due to severe and violent psychotic episodes (Dr Ferguson's and Freddie's statements).
Given Sheila's deteriorating mental health, June would have wished to arrange foster care to prevent Sheila and June and Nevill losing contact with the boys and in order to ensure the twins had a religious upbringing.
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The boys lived with Colin! So if day fostering would mean her and the boys spending more time with her, then why would that send her into a deadly frenzy????
Vic,
Sheila's friend, Freddie, made a statement that, in March 1985, a mere telephone conversation with a friend, during which June was mentioned and the the call was cut off, led to Sheila immediately having a severe and violent psychotic episode. This was so severe that Freddie feared for the safety of everyone in the flat inclusing the twins'.
Sheila was a paranoid schizophrenic, at times she behaved in a highly irrational and violent manner. We can't apply the rules of logic to her conduct.
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It's fine. I'm not going to debate it. I sensed early on that there were only two people I could fully trust to tell more than I would post on the open board, enough for them to know I'm serious and I've seen it and I've done that. One was Keira and the other was AA.
Thank you, Mat!
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Everything I said was accurate. Did you see the JR letter? Once that was posted I recieved PM's from people here apologising because they'd given me a hard time yet I'd told them almost word for word.
Where was the JR letter posted?
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The defence on the eve of the trial were quite despondent when a psychologist told them he believed bamber to be a psychopath. I have seen at least one tv interview where a psychologist describes bamber as a stereotypical psychopath, so am not sure what you're basing this post on? According to the official web site 26 doctors have said he's perfectly normal but who were these doctors? Why has he been tested so many times and why? Is there a list? Where is the evidence these tests were done?
Do you mean Kerry Daynes? She has never examined Bamber, nor is she a member of the Healthcare Professions Council or the British Psychological Society. Bamber was tested by Dr. Vincent Egan.
http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/psychology/ppl/ve2
He was tested for psychopathy, self deception and manipulation towards the tester. To pass all these tests and a Lafayette Instrument polygraph but still be guilty, he would have to be some boy. We're getting in to the realms of Dr. Hannibal Lecter.
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The only person who has ever mentioned the twins being put into care is Jeremy bamber. June & Nevill couldn't have done it even if they had wanted to as it wasn't their call to make, especially as they were living with their father at the time.
That is not true. Other evidence has come to light recently which supports Jeremy's account about this.
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That's fine. Mud sticks. With all the bullshit people have posted about me - I wouldn't believe me if I was in your shoes either.
But I did tell you all about the CCRC decision, I did say why it was declined. And everything I said came true when that letter was posted by NGB.
I'm just a VERY good guesser it seems.
Where have I posted a letter Mat?
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Do you mean Kerry Daynes? She has never examined Bamber, nor is she a member of the Healthcare Professions Council or the British Psychological Society. Bamber was tested by Dr. Vincent Egan.
http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/psychology/ppl/ve2
He was tested for psychopathy, self deception and manipulation towards the tester. To pass all these tests and a Lafayette Instrument polygraph but still be guilty, he would have to be some boy. We're getting in to the realms of Dr. Hannibal Lecter.
Daynes only made her comments recently (around 2008 I think), where as Vidvic appears to be referring to the 'eve of the trial' which suggests 1986 or 2002, so perhaps he is referring to somebody else, although I confess I don't know.
Rubbishing Daynes professional standing is quite convenient and an obvious response, she must have a certain level of standing to have acted as an expert consulant on other cases.
I'm not saying that it makes any difference to the overall 'psychopath' argument and I'm not sure it really matters. :-\
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That is not true. Other evidence has come to light recently which supports Jeremy's account about this.
What evidence? all the witnesses to that particular conversation on that night are all dead.
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What evidence? all the witnesses to that particular conversation on that night are all dead.
I agree in relation to the particular conversation that night, but there is evidence relating to recent and ongoing dicussions about fostering.
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Daynes only made her comments recently (around 2008 I think), where as Vidvic appears to be referring to the 'eve of the trial' which suggests 1986 or 2002, so perhaps he is referring to somebody else, although I confess I don't know.
Rubbishing Daynes professional standing is quite convenient and an obvious response, she must have a certain level of standing to have acted as an expert consulant on other cases.
I'm not saying that it makes any difference to the overall 'psychopath' argument and I'm not sure it really matters. :-\
It might help if Vic was able to provide the professional source re the pre trial view. I think it's come from the Wilkes book. It might help if we could get the context for Daynes' comments. I wasn't trying to trash her professional standing, she is a chartered forensic psychologist who has never examined Bamber. I'm not sure what you mean by whether it matters or not.
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So where has this evidence come from? Who has it come from?
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It might help if Vic was able to provide the professional source re the pre trial view. I think it's come from the Wilkes book. It might help if we could get the context for Daynes' comments. I wasn't trying to trash her professional standing, she is a chartered forensic psychologist who has never examined Bamber. I'm not sure what you mean by whether it matters or not.
By 'whether it matters or not', I mean that it's not definitive, Jeremy isn't required to be a psychopath in order to be guilty, and likewise he could be innocent yet still be a psychopath.
It's just background and propping up arguments, I guess in a similar way to the argument that he's never been violent before, which doesn't actually matter in terms of whether he carried out the crime or not. He doesn't have to adhere to any particular profile (although I'm not saying that he doesn't).
I don't think I've explained that very well? :-\
EDIT: 'Not' inserted into phrase in brackets.
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So where has this evidence come from? Who has it come from?
It has not been made public yet so it would not be right for me to name the source here. What I can say is that the evidence comes from someone who did provide witness statements for the trial (although not in relation to this) and was in a position to know about this and is a credible witness. Obviously this does not directly corroborate Jeremy's account of the discussion at WHF the evening before the murders but it does support his assertion that this was something being discussed within the family.
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By 'whether it matters or not', I mean that it's not definitive, Jeremy isn't required to be a psychopath in order to be guilty, and likewise he could be innocent yet still be a psychopath.
It's just background and propping up arguments, I guess in a similar way to the argument that he's never been violent before, which doesn't actually matter in terms of whether he carried out the crime or not. He doesn't have to adhere to any particular profile (although I'm saying that he doesn't).
As I must disagree with you, NCOH, could I ask your grounds, for holding this view? Egap and I have previously posted detailed and compelling grounds for our view that Jeremy did not have a murderer's profile whereas Sheila did - my posts regarding this are in the Quiz for Sparks topic.
I don't think I've explained that very well? :-\
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One persons detailed and compelling grounds are another persons nonesense, you are however welcome to disagree.
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I was just about to say the same thing. Just because you find them compelling doesn't mean others would.
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I missed the word 'not' out of the phrase in brackets.
I was supposed to say (although I'm NOT saying that he doesn't). :-[
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Were we aware of any reports from the inquest stating that Sheila's stomach contents included partially digested food.? Given that the family had all had their evening meal together,yet there were no stomach contents in the bodies of the other victims. Which would have meant that Sheila would have eaten just a couple or so hours before the murders.
One of many points omitted from the trial,and just as important when considering time factors.
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Were we aware of any reports from the inquest stating that Sheila's stomach contents included partially digested food.? Given that the family had all had their evening meal together,yet there were no stomach contents in the bodies of the other victims. Which would have meant that Sheila would have eaten just a couple or so hours before the murders.
One of many points omitted from the trial,and just as important when considering time factors.
Hi 'Lookout', this information is contained in the post mortem reports and were available to all parties at the original trial. If it didn't get much attention at trial, then it was because neither the defence nor prosecution used it as a point to further their case or counter an argument. There is nothing sinister or untowards, if that is what you are implying?
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No,nothing sinister,NCOH,just a point I was making on the post-mortem, though I understand what you're getting at. All I was wondering was how long after the murders took place.
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Sheila was a very misunderstood and misguided soul.
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No,nothing sinister,NCOH,just a point I was making on the post-mortem, though I understand what you're getting at. All I was wondering was how long after the murders took place.
To try and ascertain the length of time between eating and being killed? I see what you mean (I think).
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EGAP,,,not forgetting that the family also forced her to have an abortion at the age of 17,which would have had a devastating effect on her mind at that crucial stage in life. Then a miscarriage before giving birth to the twins. June was the one who'd indoctrinated Sheila on " devil " children after having called Sheila one at the age of 17. Can you imagine being spoken to in such a way.?
There must have been a culmination of events to have led Sheila to distraction/destruction. I have every sympathy for the poor girl.
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NCOH, yes,but I was also suggesting that Sheila had eaten after the murders took place,as having already eaten an evening meal,she would have had something that would have been easily digestible in a shorter space of time than a full meal. Maybe just a couple of hours digesting process as opposed to 3+ hours after a heavier meal. Nevertheless,it still would have been an important factor.
Then again,each person is different at assimilation of food.
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I think I'd be correct in stating that more women kill/murder their children,than men. I did read somewhere that there's a test available to women who either wish to become pregnant,or who already are. This test is to ascertain whether the woman will be prone to post-natal depression.
To my mind,it can't come soon enough as we're hearing cases more often now than ever before,and if not treated in time,can,and does lead to drastic consequences.
In Sheila's time,it wasn't taken so seriously.
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NCOH, yes,but I was also suggesting that Sheila had eaten after the murders took place,as having already eaten an evening meal,she would have had something that would have been easily digestible in a shorter space of time than a full meal. Maybe just a couple of hours digesting process as opposed to 3+ hours after a heavier meal. Nevertheless,it still would have been an important factor.
Then again,each person is different at assimilation of food.
I'm not sure what level of forensic tests were available, let alone carried out, there are a number of different observations which could have indicated a time death, from stomach contents, film over eyes, body/liver temperature, hardening, skin colour, blood pooling and probably dozens more that I'm not aware of.
I also think it's a little difficult for a lay person to really interpret these signs correctly and in context.
There are several arguments that could be made either way and there are a few too many sweeping statements put forward. For example, we know that rigor mortis occurs at a very much quicker rate in muscles which have been active prior to death, the apparent lack of rigor mortis in Sheila must surely indicate that she was not active prior to death and therefore not responsible for the murders? On the otherhand, you might say that Sheila didn't show signs of rigor mortis because she only recently committed suicide and therefore was responsible.
I've got no idea what indications could or could not be obtained from her stomach contents, I'd like to think that they obtained all the information they could, but that may be too idealistic. :-\
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Yes, EGAP, I believe there were two miscarriages. Looking at it from a psychological view,it would seem that in Sheila's mind,she was perhaps trying to compensate for her previously " forced " abortion,by wanting to become pregnant.Who knows how,or what her mind was like at the time.? I do know with each pregnancy that she'd have had hormonal changes going on throughout her body,including her mind.
It was stated that Sheila was menstruating at the time of the murders.Another state of mind which could have been a significant factor in her instability.
Her lifestyle included a bit of waitressing in a " not so glamorous " establishment,cocaine taken at parties, a spell of nude modelling and benefits that were appropriate for her then condition.
The girl was rebelling for reasons we'll never get to find out. This was her way of asking for the help that didn't materialise.
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Because an adopted child struggles with loss even if that loss is not remembered, abortion and/or miscarriage are enormously difficult events to come to terms with. Even if Sheila didn't have schizophrenia it was enough to tip her over the edge. See egap1s post below. ie triad of adoption. (It can be a wonderfull and fulfilling experience for all but the child will always suffer from loss.).
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Maggie,,,it really must have been horrendous for Sheila at times,and I suppose that her actions were to try and suppress her feelings of abandonment and desperation.
Even when parents divorce,it still has a lasting effect on the child/children. They're not all resilient,as most blame themselves during marriage/partnership break-ups,the same as for an adopted child.
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Am I right in saying there were 4 doors leading from the kitchen...
Yes, it had four doors, as described. I think the pantry I mentioned also had an external door (Green side), which hadn't been used (in a long time) and may have been obstructed.
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Can I just say, what a lovely change to have a proper reasoned debate with differing views but no arguments....refreshing.
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Can I just say, what a lovely change to have a proper reasoned debate with differing views but no arguments....refreshing.
P L E A S E don't tempt Fate...
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Enjoy it while it lasts...
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P L E A S E don't tempt Fate...
I was gonna say, I've just got back from the pub!!! ;D
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Lol.....I'll report myself to the moderators and have the last 3 posts removed....
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vidvic I do so agree with you I am starting to enjoy posting again we can have different opinions but discuss it without malice or arrogance. Thanks for posting that.
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I guess I shouldn't start that thread "How I lost that photo of Mike in a Mankini" then? :-[ :-[ :-[
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I know this might sound somewhat controversial, but as everyone knows on here I have enormous sympathy for Sheila and her troubled life, however I do wonder how Sheila would have fared had she have been tested for psychopathic traits? Many people instantly think of a Hannibal Lecter type but I understand a psychopath is someone who is nr zero on empathy. Given Sheila's difficult start in life I don't think I'm being unfair in saying she might have been nr zero on empathy?
Hi egap1,
Not controversial as such, but may I ask what you mean by "fared"? Do you mean in terms of an intervention to potentially avoid the night in question?
I'm not sure about the 'zero empathy comment', certainly it's possible, but when Kerry Daynes is being called out for making assumptions about Jeremy without actually meeting him, then ...... well, did you ever meet Sheila? If not then how do you consider yourself qualified to make such a sweeping statement, or rather suggestion?
Sometimes I think too much is assumed or interpreted, I'm sure the same goes with regards to JB.
Another question which has bugged me for a while, can you explain your username? You don't have to, but is it '1Page' backwards, in reference to Pages Lane perhaps? Or something completely different?
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Any news on whether to alleged photograph has been recovered from the hard drive yet?
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Sheila was a very misunderstood and misguided soul.
No Sheila was a rebel, and hated farm life. It seems she also hated June, as much as the twins. Colin felt the need to speak to Nevill about June making the boys pray.
Who wrote on the cupboard I HATE THIS PLACE, It certainly was not one of the twins.
Sheila was not a misguided nor misunderstood soul, she had made her bed, even though Nevill had tried to guide her.
He got the flat for her hoping she would change her ways, but unfotunately she was hoplessly addicted to hard drugs..
I think it has been proved that Sheila was a regular drug user, mixed with her medication anything could have happened and did.
As far as foster care is concerned, it is my understanding that Colin was the guardian of the children, and would not have the children taken away.
Whatever triggered Sheila was not influenced by the foster care suggestion.
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Buddy,how about a reaction to her medication.? As with certain medications for psychotic disorders,it's a question of trial and error as to which is going to be the most suitable. With any medication,it can have adverse effects on different people,in different ways. Some reactions can and do give rise to further irrational behaviour. Then of course taken with other drugs dependent on what they were, would defeat the object thus cancelling out the effectiveness of the treatment given.
So in effect,it would mean that what Sheila took for her mental illness wouldn't have worked because of the chemical reaction of her prescription drugs and her addictive drugs.
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It has not been made public yet so it would not be right for me to name the source here. What I can say is that the evidence comes from someone who did provide witness statements for the trial (although not in relation to this) and was in a position to know about this and is a credible witness. Obviously this does not directly corroborate Jeremy's account of the discussion at WHF the evening before the murders but it does support his assertion that this was something being discussed within the family.
"I have been asked to express an opinion as to how she might have reacted if she became aware of a proposal to remove the children from her care. I would expect a very negative reaction. She would resist it in any way she knew. It would threaten whatever precarious balances she had. Her precise responses would be difficult to predict: she could have withdrawn into depression or have become angry and vitriolic.”
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No Sheila was a rebel, and hated farm life. It seems she also hated June, as much as the twins. Colin felt the need to speak to Nevill about June making the boys pray.
Who wrote on the cupboard I HATE THIS PLACE, It certainly was not one of the twins.
Sheila was not a misguided nor misunderstood soul, she had made her bed, even though Nevill had tried to guide her.
He got the flat for her hoping she would change her ways, but unfotunately she was hoplessly addicted to hard drugs..
I think it has been proved that Sheila was a regular drug user, mixed with her medication anything could have happened and did.
As far as foster care is concerned, it is my understanding that Colin was the guardian of the children, and would not have the children taken away.
I read there was a photo of the ' I hate this place' scratched in the wardrobe door, has anybody seen it? It would be interesting to look at
Whatever triggered Sheila was not influenced by the foster care suggestion.
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" I hate this place " is here on the forum i saw the photo big letters too.
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" I hate this place " is here on the forum i saw the photo big letters too.
Thanks, I shall look through the photos again tomorrow, I don't recall seeing it when I looked.
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I have tried to speed read the last twenty or so pages of this thread because so much has been posted since I was last here. However, I notice Mike is talking about a photograph of Sheila on the bed with one bullet wound as if that is the same photograph he stole and sent to JB. But I am fairly sure, somebody correct me if I am wrong, that when Mike introduced his informant Z into the equation and the photo he (Z) supposedly had of Sheila on the bed, Mike said it was different to the one he had seen because in that one Sheila had two bullet wounds. There was even discussion on here about how reliable Z was because his alledged picture of Sheila on the bed differed from that which Mike claimed to have "seen".
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I have tried to speed read the last twenty or so pages of this thread because so much has been posted since I was last here. However, I notice Mike is talking about a photograph of Sheila on the bed with one bullet wound as if that is the same photograph he stole and sent to JB. But I am fairly sure, somebody correct me if I am wrong, that when Mike introduced his informant Z into the equation and the photo he (Z) supposedly had of Sheila on the bed, Mike said it was different to the one he had seen because in that one Sheila had two bullet wounds. There was even discussion on here about how reliable Z was because his alledged picture of Sheila on the bed differed from that which Mike claimed to have "seen".
You are correct. The distinguishing feature of the ewen smith photo was that there was no blood on sheila's face, not the lack of one of the wounds.
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Thanks, I shall look through the photos again tomorrow, I don't recall seeing it when I looked.
Iv'e not seen that photograph either...Is there any chance someone can post it please. :)
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ajross Can I see the photo as well please.
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ajross Can I see the photo as well please.
When my son is not around I shall try and look through the photo archive to see if I can find it, I obviously don't want Ernest to see any of them though as he is too young but obsessed with the IPad
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Hi all currently in Lancs, i think mike posted the photo a week or so ago, the inscription was wild and vivid no way a minor could do that.
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Hi all currently in Lancs, i think mike posted the photo a week or so ago, the inscription was wild and vivid no way a minor could do that.
Do you know where? I can't seem to find it
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Do you know where? I can't seem to find it
Me neither and I'm usually quite good at finding things. :-\
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Do you know where? I can't seem to find it
hi ive just got back home , i will try to source it for you later a bottle of magners cider will help that action.
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Police moved Sheila from the bed to the bedroom floor...
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hi ive just got back home , i will try to source it for you later a bottle of magners cider will help that action.
Mertol, any joy with the photo?
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Still no photo? Still no itemised phone bills?
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Sorry, it was the photo of the writing on the wardrobe door I was after, not Sheila on the bed
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Oh, sorry. !! Getting so excited about the piccy on the bed and the itemised phone bills that I got mixed up.
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Oh, sorry. !! Getting so excited about the piccy on the bed and the itemised phone bills that I got mixed up.
Is that excitement not waning yet? :)
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finding the IHTP among the topics is not easy !, as they are rolling topics we dont stop or pause much, ive just completed my 1st search, i will try later hopefully i can offer a page number with the topic.
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Is that excitement not waning yet? :)
not for me ajross
i'm more at the given up stage..... ;D
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For the attention of all members and visitors:-
Please note that the CCRC decision is not yet final, and as such those who are trying to force my hand because I said I would undertake certain actions once it was given, they should think long and hard about how they are wrongly interpreting what I have been saying...
It's not over yet...
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For the attention of all members and visitors:-
Please note that the CCRC decision is not yet final, and as such those who are trying to force my hand because I said I would undertake certain actions once it was given, they should think long and hard about how they are wrongly interpreting what I have been saying...
It's not over yet...
If i have caused offence Mike then that was not my intention. It's just the thread was started a while ago, we've yet to see the photo and (personally) I've put it on the back burner until you have done whatever you have to do hence the 'waning' excitement question. I'm sure that you have your reason for any delay.
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If i have caused offence Mike then that was not my intention. It's just the thread was started a while ago, we've yet to see the photo and (personally) I've put it on the back burner until you have done whatever you have to do hence the 'waning' excitement question. I'm sure that you have your reason for any delay.
Yes, that's alright, I know everyone wants to see the picture of Sheila on the bed, and I will soon be taking steps to bring it into the hands of those who need it most. I am due to meet my informant in the morning in Glasgow to discuss the possibility of the other photographs of Sheila on the bed with only one wound to her neck' also being made available to those in most need of it. One thing I am not and that is that I do not tell lies, I might on occasions keep quiet and say nothing, but there is a difference between doing that and telling lies (in my opinion). Just you lot wait until you see the evidence I have been talking about for all these months, it's going to blow your minds away...
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Yes, that's alright, I know everyone wants to see the picture of Sheila on the bed, and I will soon be taking steps to bring it into the hands of those who need it most. I am due to meet my informant in the morning in Glasgow to discuss the possibility of the other photographs of Sheila on the bed with only one wound to her neck' also being made available to those in most need of it. One thing I am not and that is that I do not tell lies, I might on occasions keep quiet and say nothing, but there is a difference between doing that and telling lies (in my opinion). Just you lot wait until you see the evidence I have been talking about for all these months, it's going to blow your minds away...
Great stuff Mike.
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Great stuff Mike.
I hope so Mike, or I will be chasing you up Granvill Road.....hahahahahah
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Yes, that's alright, I know everyone wants to see the picture of Sheila on the bed, and I will soon be taking steps to bring it into the hands of those who need it most. I am due to meet my informant in the morning in Glasgow to discuss the possibility of the other photographs of Sheila on the bed with only one wound to her neck' also being made available to those in most need of it. One thing I am not and that is that I do not tell lies, I might on occasions keep quiet and say nothing, but there is a difference between doing that and telling lies (in my opinion). Just you lot wait until you see the evidence I have been talking about for all these months, it's going to blow your minds away...
Mike
You are correct people, including me, would like to see the alleged photograph because such an alleged photgraph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck would certainly confirm Jeremy could not have inflicted a second gun shot wound to Sheila.
End result - unsafe conviction
In my opinion, the CCRC would then have no choice but to give Jeremy leave to Appeal on the basis of new evidence for an unsafe conviction.
The problem is the photograph remains alleged despite you having access to it for circa 8 years if what you have stated is correct.
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Yes, that's alright, I know everyone wants to see the picture of Sheila on the bed, and I will soon be taking steps to bring it into the hands of those who need it most. I am due to meet my informant in the morning in Glasgow to discuss the possibility of the other photographs of Sheila on the bed with only one wound to her neck' also being made available to those in most need of it. One thing I am not and that is that I do not tell lies, I might on occasions keep quiet and say nothing, but there is a difference between doing that and telling lies (in my opinion). Just you lot wait until you see the evidence I have been talking about for all these months, it's going to blow your minds away...
And I have no reason not to believe you, good luck in Glasgow Mike (if indeed that is where you are going) ;)
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Mike
You are correct people, including me, would like to see the alleged photograph because such an alleged photgraph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck would certainly confirm Jeremy could not have inflicted a second gun shot wound to Sheila.
End result - unsafe conviction
In my opinion, the CCRC would then have no choice but to give Jeremy leave to Appeal on the basis of new evidence for an unsafe conviction.
The problem is the photograph remains alleged despite you having access to it for circa 8 years if what you have stated is correct.
Police have had access to it (including the negatives) for almost 27 years, I don't mind anyone blaming me for withholding this evidence, but my hands have been tied behind my back, and still are to a certain extent...
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And I have no reason not to believe you, good luck in Glasgow Mike (if indeed that is where you are going) ;)
"Cometh the hour, cometh the man"...
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Police have had access to it (including the negatives) for almost 27 years, I don't mind anyone blamed me for withholding this evidence, but my hands have been tied behind my back, and still are to a certain extent...
Why have your hands been tied behind your back? I can't think of a single thing in the world that would have stopped me either getting the photo to the defence or publicising it.
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Why have your hands been tied behind your back? I can't think of a single thing in the world that would have stopped me either getting the photo to the defence or publicising it.
The threat of being prosecuted...
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The threat of being prosecuted...
Mike
Prosecuted for what?
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Mike
Prosecuted for what?
You tell me, I have to bear any possible defence in mind, so I cannot comment...
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Mike
Prosecuted for what?
He stole a crime scene photo from a lawyers office (I believe) and in a case which seems a little corrupt (to those that believe JB innocent) that could easily be grounds for concern, surely?
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He stole a crime scene photo from a lawyers office (I believe) and in a case which seems a little corrupt (to those that believe JB innocent) that could easily be grounds for concern, surely?
They're going to prosecute him for stealing a photo that they say doesn't exist? Pull the other one. And anyway, why wouldn't you just send copies to the defence and several newspapers anonymously?
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You tell me, I have to bear any possible defence in mind, so I cannot comment...
But you would be uncovering a major corruption.
The lawyer for the Birmingham Six was not prosecuted with the infamous 'Not to be shown to the defence' file.............. the Birmingham Six had a significant political element to the case given it involved what was regarded as a terrorist organisation who were regarded asa significant threat to national security. With the greatest of respect I do not necessarily think the same applies to Jeremy.
If I am wrong then please explain and correct me.
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Yes, that's alright, I know everyone wants to see the picture of Sheila on the bed, and I will soon be taking steps to bring it into the hands of those who need it most. I am due to meet my informant in the morning in Glasgow to discuss the possibility of the other photographs of Sheila on the bed with only one wound to her neck' also being made available to those in most need of it. One thing I am not and that is that I do not tell lies, I might on occasions keep quiet and say nothing, but there is a difference between doing that and telling lies (in my opinion). Just you lot wait until you see the evidence I have been talking about for all these months, it's going to blow your minds away...
Have you been drinking Mike?
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He stole a crime scene photo from a lawyers office (I believe) and in a case which seems a little corrupt (to those that believe JB innocent) that could easily be grounds for concern, surely?
Did I steal it, or remove it?
Was my intention to permanently deprive someone of it?
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They're going to prosecute him for stealing a photo that they say doesn't exist? Pull the other one. And anyway, why wouldn't you just send copies to the defence and several newspapers anonymously?
AAh, that is the key point, stealing or removing something that does not officially exist, but which does exist..
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Have you been drinking Mike?
I actually laughed out loud when I read that.
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I might be travelling to Glasgow by train from Leeds in the morning, but then again, I might not be...
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I might be travelling to Glasgow by train from Leeds in the morning, but then again, I might not be...
Have a good journey north Mike - be carefull not to get sidetracked by spending the day in Leeds Wetherspoon's making stuff up.
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They're going to prosecute him for stealing a photo that they say doesn't exist? Pull the other one. And anyway, why wouldn't you just send copies to the defence and several newspapers anonymously?
Haha, a very valid point Bridget! Sorry for being a dunce, I think I have just been too excited about tonights continuation of the zombie apocalypse on channel 5!
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Have a good journey north Mike - be carefull not to get sidetracked by spending the day in Leeds Wetherspoon's making stuff up.
The Three Legs is the place to go, you couldn't make that place up!!!
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Have a good journey north Mike - be carefull not to get sidetracked by spending the day in Leeds Wetherspoon's making stuff up.
And, to make it look really convincing, don't spend any time on the forum tomorrow either.
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But you would be uncovering a major corruption.
The lawyer for the Birmingham Six was not prosecuted with the infamous 'Not to be shown to the defence' file.............. the Birmingham Six had a significant political element to the case given it involved what was regarded as a terrorist organisation who were regarded asa significant threat to national security. With the greatest of respect I do not necessarily think the same applies to Jeremy.
If I am wrong then please explain and correct me.
The Birmingham were only released after another police force ( Devon and Cornwall ) found notebooks , from their inquiry into the bombings , which the BP had said were destroyed , if Devon and Cornwall never kept them , The Birmingham Six may still be imprisoned !!
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The threat of being prosecuted...
So you publish your crime on a public forum? Treating us as fools....
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I have now managed to get my hands on two further hard drives from an additional two computers I used previously. I am posting images of these to identify them publicly for future reference.
For improved identification, please post a close-up photo of the label on the front of each drive, so that the serial number and all other data on the label are easily readable.
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For improved identification, please post a close-up photo of the label on the front of each drive, so that the serial number and all other data on the label are easily readable.
yeah,nice try....
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why are you all being sucked in by this nonsense? mike never saw this photo, had this photo. we only have his word it ever existed.
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why are you all being sucked in by this nonsense? mike never saw this photo, had this photo. we only have his word it ever existed.
Nobody is, people are just baking the fish. :P
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so while you are baking perhaps you could tell me which thread the sainted mike tesko posted them photos of a room last week. or have they all gone?
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why are you all being sucked in by this nonsense? mike never saw this photo, had this photo. we only have his word it ever existed.
And our tame undercover agent from the CCRC. ;)
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so while you are baking perhaps you could tell me which thread the sainted mike tesko posted them photos of a room last week. or have they all gone?
Do you mean the master bedroom which he tried to make people believe it was another?
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Do you mean the master bedroom which he tried to make people believe it was another?
This one?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2658.0.html
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why are you all being sucked in by this nonsense? mike never saw this photo, had this photo. we only have his word it ever existed.
Janet,everyone knows the picture doesn't exist,seemingly except Mike. This belief is being supported by the fact no Lemmings were present in the making of this thread.... ;D
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He apparently posted a picture of the writing scratched into the wardrobe, I know it's a different matter but I was interested in seeing it. Unfortunately nobody seems to know what happened to it. Any ideas? Anynody seen it?
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He apparently posted a picture of the writing scratched into the wardrobe, I know it's a different matter but I was interested in seeing it. Unfortunately nobody seems to know what happened to it. Any ideas? Anynody seen it?
It's not on the forum, if it once was then it's since been removed.
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It's not on the forum, if it once was then it's since been removed.
I can post it again, later tonight when I do some research with the case papers in my possession...
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I can post it again, later tonight when I do some research with the case papers in my possession...
Hi Mike, would you like me to nip round and help you? I'm being serious here! :)
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I can post it again, later tonight when I do some research with the case papers in my possession...
Thank you Mike, that would be great. It probably has little relevance but I would like to see it for my own interest. (also, I just reread my post and it came over as a little rude I think, that was an accident and sorry if it seemed that way.)
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It's not on the forum, if it once was then it's since been removed.
I confirm that I saw it on the forum.
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Which room at whf was this photograph of Sheila, and the rifle, taken in?
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I confirm that I saw it on the forum.
Then Mike has removed it.
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Then Mike has removed it.
The 'I hate this place' one? I have just asked him to repost it
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The 'I hate this place' one? I have just asked him to repost it
I am trying to locate it, I haven't removed anything, so don't believe stories like that what people are making up just for the fun of it...
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I confirm that I saw it on the forum.
I saw it also now will be 2-3 weeks ago posted about 9pm ish i think, quite large block capitals carved with anger as i read. i went way babk on one thread but it was not there so it must have been another .
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I am trying to locate it, I haven't removed anything, so don't believe stories like that what people are making up just for the fun of it...
God help you if it's in a hard drive Mike.... ;D
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I saw it also now will be 2-3 weeks ago posted about 9pm ish i think, quite large block capitals carved with anger as i read. i went way babk on one thread but it was not there so it must have been another .
Well I have just searched through hundreds of posts and loads of threads other than coming to the conclusion that Mike spends a lot of time posting, I have drawn a blank...again!
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I am trying to locate it, I haven't removed anything, so don't believe stories like that what people are making up just for the fun of it...
It's not on the forum, nobody is making anything up, if it once did appear then for whatever reason it has been removed.
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Well I have just searched through hundreds of posts and loads of threads other than coming to the conclusion that Mike spends a lot of time posting, I have drawn a blank...again!
It was in one of my photo' albums of the case all along, so I took a picture of it which I will now post, soz for the delay...
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Thanks for that Mike. Was that inside the wardrobe door or outside? :)
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Thanks for that Mike. Was that inside the wardrobe door or outside? :)
inside...
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inside...
I wonder then if Sheila wrote in capitals like Jeremy? How odd, poor girl must have been angry at the time..bless her! :)
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Hi Patti,,yes,very sad,as both Sheila and Jeremy are victims really.
Had these murders been committed today,things would have been a lot different for both of them,because Jeremy would have been free,and Sheila also would very likely still be alive because of the treatments available for her severe illness. Yes,the whole thing is very sad indeed.
How little was known back in the 80's. For all any of us know,Sheila could have heard voices in her head telling her to kill. It has been known,especially among paranoid schizophrenics,whose life-spans aren't those of normal people anyway,for near enough half of them commit suicide eventually,and that's after taking the appropriate medication ( always supposing they don't miss taking it )
The illness is very in-depth,and I do feel that it should be taken into consideration instead of laying blame on Jeremy.
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inside...
Blast! if only i'd waited for you rather than just spend the last hour scouring the internet for it to no avail! >:( :D thank you though Mike
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It is still probably hidden somewhere on the forum? Mike has no reason to delete it.
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inside...
It looks quite large in two of the photos and it also looks as if it has been scratched over 'fresh' paint
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Hi Patti,,yes,very sad,as both Sheila and Jeremy are victims really.
Had these murders been committed today,things would have been a lot different for both of them,because Jeremy would have been free,and Sheila also would very likely still be alive because of the treatments available for her severe illness. Yes,the whole thing is very sad indeed.
How little was known back in the 80's. For all any of us know,Sheila could have heard voices in her head telling her to kill. It has been known,especially among paranoid schizophrenics,whose life-spans aren't those of normal people anyway,for near enough half of them commit suicide eventually,and that's after taking the appropriate medication ( always supposing they don't miss taking it )
The illness is very in-depth,and I do feel that it should be taken into consideration instead of laying blame on Jeremy.
I understand patti now has a copy of I search of the rainbows end by colin so its my bet patti has read the page which i part posted a while ago in a nutshell Sheila heard voices from god saying the world was not as it should and she had to put right.
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Hi Patti,,yes,very sad,as both Sheila and Jeremy are victims really.
Had these murders been committed today,things would have been a lot different for both of them,because Jeremy would have been free,and Sheila also would very likely still be alive because of the treatments available for her severe illness. Yes,the whole thing is very sad indeed.
How little was known back in the 80's. For all any of us know,Sheila could have heard voices in her head telling her to kill. It has been known,especially among paranoid schizophrenics,whose life-spans aren't those of normal people anyway,for near enough half of them commit suicide eventually,and that's after taking the appropriate medication ( always supposing they don't miss taking it )
The illness is very in-depth,and I do feel that it should be taken into consideration instead of laying blame on Jeremy.
Hi lookout, I agree that both SB and JB must have found it very difficult living in a modern day society of night clubs and freedom of sexuality. This must have angered June very much for this was not her way and this was not the way she had tried to bring her children up....At the end of the day both children were in their 20's..both had left home and led their own lives, but was still being controlled by their mother.....
June advised Sheila to abort her 1st child, but in all fairness to that, both Colin and Sheila had an agreement that it was the right thing. After the abortion, Colin went to WHF to be with Sheila and went for a picnic.....they were told to go in the garden, but they went further a field to be by themselves and both of them stripped off and laid in the sunshine....but June came charging up in her mini and gave the pair of them what for and told Sheila she was the devils child....Sheila bless her, believed her...and was worried about carrying children, she thought that the abortion would ruin her insides...and she was in fear of not being able to carry another child....
Well, she got pregnant again, but this time the couple had wanted to marry....but June told them there was no way they could marry in my church because she did not believe in sex before marriage and SB was pregnant again...So none of the traditional wedding plans were made...IE marque in garden and local church wedding....it had to a register office wedding and reception in an hotel....no villages presents....out of the way....
Sadly a few weeks later Sheila lost the baby....and again was thrawt with worry, that she could never carry children......but she did she had two beautiful twin boys, who were the apple of her eye....and Colin's....Again, sadly the marriage was over before Sheila gave birth, but C loved her in his own way...Its all very sad...If you ever read his book it does make you cry...I;ve had many a tear....:)
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Hi lookout, I agree that both SB and JB must have found it very difficult living in a modern day society of night clubs and freedom of sexuality. This must have angered June very much for this was not her way and this was not the way she had tried to bring her children up....At the end of the day both children were in their 20's..both had left home and led their own lives, but was still being controlled by their mother.....
June advised Sheila to abort her 1st child, but in all fairness to that, both Colin and Sheila had an agreement that it was the right thing. After the abortion, Colin went to WHF to be with Sheila and went for a picnic.....they were told to go in the garden, but they went further a field to be by themselves and both of them stripped off and laid in the sunshine....but June came charging up in her mini and gave the pair of them what for and told Sheila she was the devils child....Sheila bless her, believed her...and was worried about carrying children, she thought that the abortion would ruin her insides...and she was in fear of not being able to carry another child....
Well, she got pregnant again, but this time the couple had wanted to marry....but June told them there was no way they could marry in my church because she did not believe in sex before marriage and SB was pregnant again...So none of the traditional wedding plans were made...IE marque in garden and local church wedding....it had to a register office wedding and reception in an hotel....no villages presents....out of the way....
Sadly a few weeks later Sheila lost the baby....and again was thrawt with worry, that she could never carry children......but she did she had two beautiful twin boys, who were the apple of her eye....and Colin's....Again, sadly the marriage was over before Sheila gave birth, but C loved her in his own way...Its all very sad...If you ever read his book it does make you cry...I;ve had many a tear....:)
I figured you may part with a beal patti.
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I figured you may part with a beal patti.
Hi Mertol :) Was Dallas good? What is a beal? :)
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Hi Mertol :) Was Dallas good? What is a beal? :)
Hi patti dallas good a beal tears
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Hi patti dallas good a beal tears
Your pulling me leg Mertol....give over lol :) Tell me what beal means ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Your pulling me leg Mertol....give over lol :) Tell me what beal means ;D ;D ;D ;D
its Lincolnshire slang been here yonks
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its Lincolnshire slang been here yonks
OK serry.... :) :) :) :) :)
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OK serry.... :) :) :) :) :)
have a chilled glass of plonko on me sharpens the mind !
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have a chilled glass of plonko on me sharpens the mind !
I know that's what I am having, been out and fetched a bottle of Chardonnay....it;s my favourite..Only the one glass mind... :( :( :( :( :(
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This thread should be titled 'How I have deliberately hidden possibly the most conclusive evidence that the police lied in the investigation of Jeremy Bamber'
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This thread should be titled 'How I have deliberately hidden possibly the most conclusive evidence that the police lied in the investigation of Jeremy Bamber'
Anything would be well hidden in this thread! :)
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This thread should be titled 'How I have deliberately hidden possibly the most conclusive evidence that the police lied in the investigation of Jeremy Bamber'
Police officially don't tell lies, do they?
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This thread should be titled 'How I have deliberately hidden possibly the most conclusive evidence that the police lied in the investigation of Jeremy Bamber'
Or... How I've wasted 9 years of my life,9 years of his life and failed to spend the million
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Or... How I've wasted 9 years of my life,9 years of his life and failed to spend the million
I'm being totally ignorant but I thought I read something about a million pounds yesterday on another page while searching for the photo. Is this some sort of reward? Where will it come from?
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I'm being totally ignorant but I thought I read something about a million pounds yesterday on another page while searching for the photo. Is this some sort of reward? Where will it come from?
JB... £1 million to the person who obtains the itemissed bills / or some other evidence that sets him free.
Mikes got the previous ones that prove their existence but is reluctant to pass go and collect.....
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JB... £1 million to the person who obtains the itemissed bills / or some other evidence that sets him free.
Mikes got the previous ones that prove their existence but is reluctant to pass go and collect.....
I should start looking into the case more carefully then, I wasn't aware of that.
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I should start looking into the case more carefully then, I wasn't aware of that.
Mikes stated on many occasions he's got the photo & bills to prove his innocence yet he's done nothing about it.... What does that tell you?......
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Mikes stated on many occasions he's got the photo & bills to prove his innocence yet he's done nothing about it.... What does that tell you?......
Better buy your tickets to South America for a quick get away just in case I find something and win your £million. ;D
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Better buy your tickets to South America for a quick get away just in case I find something and win your £million. ;D
Happy hunting!
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Happy hunting!
On the other hand I don't think I'll bother looking. I'm tired of all this jiggery pokery about lost statements and pictures etc. ::)
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On the other hand I don't think I'll bother looking. I'm tired of all this jiggery pokery about lost statements and pictures etc. ::)
[/quote
or the wiff..... :-\
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On the other hand I don't think I'll bother looking. I'm tired of all this jiggery pokery about lost statements and pictures etc. ::)
[/quote
or the wiff..... :-\
At the rate Mike's going it probably works out better moneywise for me to continue to work in social housing and that's saying something!!! :D
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JB... £1 million to the person who obtains the itemissed bills / or some other evidence that sets him free.
Mikes got the previous ones that prove their existence but is reluctant to pass go and collect.....
Why doesn't Jeremy have his defence call up BT and enquire? They will tell him that itemised billing wasn't even available.
Plus, where would this £1million come from? Jeremy certainly doesn't have it.
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Mat if Jeremy was released he would have that and much more so he would have to do an I.O.U.
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Oh, I see. It's money he intends to earn/inherit after release.
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Mat I think if he was released he would make quite a bit of money on books and the like just my opinion 8)
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Mat I think if he was released he would make quite a bit of money on books and the like just my opinion 8)
I think he'll be paid a fortune for the film rights for his book.
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Hi Chochok eira that is what I was trying to say to Mat but had a block as I do quite often.
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Why doesn't Jeremy have his defence call up BT and enquire? They will tell him that itemised billing wasn't even available.
The contents of a witness statement not previously disclosed makes mention of the fact that if special equipment had been fitted to the telephone line at whf, then it would be possible to obtain all the details of every call made from and to the farmhouse, but the author of the witness statement claims that no such special equipment was in use at the material time, but this is a lie, because a panic alarm was fitted after threats to kill Ralph Bamber and his family were made previously...
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Not necessarily. A panic alarm simply alerts the police when activated. It's unrelated to special call-logging equipment that was presumably being referred to.
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Not necessarily. A panic alarm simply alerts the police when activated. It's unrelated to special call-logging equipment that was presumably being referred to.
Because Essex police have not disclosed any information about the type / kind of panic alarm or any other special equipment that was fitted to the phone at whf, it still remains possible that police had a means of checking all calls made to and from the scene...
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Because Essex police have not disclosed any information about the type / kind of panic alarm or any other special equipment that was fitted to the phone at whf, it still remains possible that police had a means of checking all calls made to and from the scene...
In any event for the first month, Essex police accepted that Jeremy had received a call from whf, once the nature of the investigation changed police changed their view into a hitman making the call from whf to Jeremy at his cottage to let him know that everything had been done? This was later amended to nobody making a call from whf, once police realized that the other approaches were pie in the sky and not favourable to the prosecutions case which they intended to bring against Jeremy during trial...
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I wasn't aware of any evidence that a panic alarm was already installed on the line at the time of the murders. Even if it was, it's relevant only if it was activated to alert the police, and nobody has suggested that that occurred.
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Mike, can you confirm you still say you have itemised billing from the time of the murders that shows a call made from WHF to Jeremy?
I wasn't aware that a panic alarm had any tracking capabilities. I believe that there would need to be another piece of software.
Don't think I've ever read that a panic alarm was actually installed at the time of the murders, if it was it would make sense that SOMEONE would have used it during the slayings.
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You should already know that he never claimed to have such itemization, just earlier bills that he says were itemized, suggesting that later bills would also have been.
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You should already know that he never claimed to have such itemization, just earlier bills that he says were itemized, suggesting that later bills would also have been.
He hinted though, if he has the earlier bills that have the itemization - then surely the others should. To be fair I haven't seen him say he has - but others on here have said that Mike has said he has such bills. I guess I took their word for it.
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Mike, can you confirm you still say you have itemised billing from the time of the murders that shows a call made from WHF to Jeremy?
I wasn't aware that a panic alarm had any tracking capabilities. I believe that there would need to be another piece of software.
Don't think I've ever read that a panic alarm was actually installed at the time of the murders, if it was it would make sense that SOMEONE would have used it during the slayings.
Unless Sheila took the psrents by suprise, and or the phone was left off its cradle serving to deactivate the link to the police at the time the shootings commenced...
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Please forgive my ignorance, but what relevance do alarm buttons and itemized phone bills have to a lost photo? Have I missed something important?
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Please forgive my ignorance, but what relevance do alarm buttons and itemized phone bills have to a lost photo? Have I missed something important?
Well I see the fact that a panic alarm was fitted to be very significant and has been overlooked by some. Because the reason that it was installed was because of the very real threat to the Bamber family.
I have a theory that of course cannot be proved one way or another. It is just my theory. It has subjective evidence which is the say so of a certain contact that I have (it isn't an attempt to be cloak and dagger by the way).
Here's what my theory is. Jeremy receives a call in the early morning from his father telling him that Sheila has gone crazy with the gun/a gun. That was Ralph who was being forced by a third party assassin (the one or ones who had threatened the family's lives. The attacker/s beat him until he complied with their request and threatened to shoot the others or one of the family if be didn't. This was an attempt by them to get Jeremy round to WHF. Instead Jeremy phoned the police. On hearing police cars approaching up Pages Lane the killer/s killed the rest of the family, or Sheila if she was the last to die (quite easy for two people to force her head backwards in order to shoot her by pulling her hair back). before fleeing the house by unknown means (man seen scuttling away from the farm).
Operation half successful. Unfortunately Jeremy wasn't there or he would have been their last victim and their task would have been complete and a perfect murder.
The rest you can make what you will of it.
But what I will say is this: There are certain people in very influential positions whom it will not benefit to see Jeremy released. I have believed this for some time. Let me ask you one question. Why are their so many people who are interested in the case of Jeremy Bamber? And why are so many people concerned at the prospect of his release? I'm sorry, but it just isn't good enough to say its because he's child murderer. There are many other child murderers who don't even receive a fraction of the publicity that JB has, or have receive even a quarter of the hatred that JB has.
So WHY are people so interested in him and why are they so concerned for him to remain in jail? It is as if the CCRC are accommodating someone by wilfully preventing the simplest of evidence to pass their eyes? They are protecting someone and this someone (And I said this at the very beginning remember) has perhaps millions invested in this? Mark my words. I will be very surprised (but pleased) if JB's legal team win this Judicial review?
Mark this also. Why has Simon McKay been researched and some are trying their hardest to discredit him as soon as he took up this case? I can name at least three people who have done so. Why now? Why not at any other time? Why as soon as he took up JB's case? I am afraid JB has a very big fight in order to obtain his get out of jail card. Because thiscase goes right to the top and it involves vast sums of money and big business. I have said this from the very beginning. There are dark forces that are at work here (I'm not being religious here) these forces are quite tangible and real and are doing their utmost to keep JB in prison.
Just look at the hatred against those who think him innocent. Just think of the vast resistance by a great deal of people and those who mock those who think he is innocent. It is quite unnatural and seemingly paranoid reactions to it all. eg: Just the other day Rochford made a very simple and obvious question to a member who has obviously rejoined the forum and had been frequenting the silly other forum and the immediate reaction to his comment was "you're paranoid". What a strange reaction. They obviously couldn't see that it was their reaction that was paranoid and not Rochford.
Now as I said my view of events is only a theory and probably leaves itself open to many questions which could be justified. But the last piece of information I gave you. That is real. I have known almost from the beginning and that is the reason JB will have a devil of a fight to get out of Gaol. You will be surprised just how high this thing goes and there are people on this forum who know that what I am saying to you is true.
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Just as an after thought. It has been rumoured and it is true that pictures of my house have been posted on the silly forum. I would like to make it very clear that they are very old pictures. Over two years old at least and I am not prepared to tell you how I know this. You might even say they are as bad as updating their information as Google is. ;) I notice that one of their sheep has commented that it would put the wind up them if anyone posted pictures of their house. Well just to let you know. It makes no difference to me whether someone has taken pictures of my house at all. The one thing that does concern me is that I hadn't done any weeding before the picture was taken.
It still amazes me just how many of their sheep believe everything they are told by that halfwit? Those who frequent that forum must be really dim? In fact I know who they are and can confidently confirm that they ARE dim. ;D ;D ;D Carry on you tossers. You haven't got the balls to come round my house. There are cameras and they will get a very clear picture of you and woe betide you I will have some fun with you. ;)
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Grahame perhaps the sheep would be good enough to get down on their hands and knees and eat your weeds sheep are very good for that not much else poor souls. Perhaps they want a good picture for Homes & Gardens Mag.
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Grahame perhaps the sheep would be good enough to get down on their hands and knees and eat your weeds sheep are very good for that not much else poor souls. Perhaps they want a good picture for Homes & Gardens Mag.
The sheep will have to leave their cameras outside my royal estate though. ::)
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Grahame don,t give sheep too much credit they would not know what to do with a camera probably think it was a Yorkshire Pudding.
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The fact of the matter is that it was quite possible that the extended family members weren't aware of Sheila having "gone beserk " on a few occasions whereby if JB hadn't been present at WHF at the time of these scenario's happening,,then Ralph would automatically phone Jeremy for help/assistance to calm Sheila down.
I doubt if any of these " outbursts " were ever told to anyone,as Ralph was a private person and held in high regard. It would have been against his better judgement to have let this sort of a " scene " get beyond the immediate family.
It's no wonder JB had told the police that " she was mad ",,,,he'd seen it all before,,and back then there was little understanding about such a condition.
This is why,on the night/morning of the murders that Ralph phoned Jeremy before the police,,,thinking that if Jeremy was there,between them they'd be able to calm Sheila as they had done before,,,,because if Sheila had heard mention about the police it would have inflamed the situation further.
Hence the fact that Jeremy was in no particular hurry to get to WHF,,because of past events where they've been able to calm the situation.
But this time it was different in that Sheila had a gun,,,to which Jeremy had thought it was nothing more than a threat,,,but before JB himself rang the police,he rang JM asking her did she think he'd be doing the right thing in calling the police in,,,,which we all know he did after he'd spoken to JM.
JB,must have got the shock of his life when he reached the farmhouse,,,to learn that it wasn't just one of Sheila's usual threats and outbursts. He was visibly shocked and shaken to realise the extent of what had happened.
However,,,with the shock and trauma that JB must have suffered,but hadn't got time to show with the police presence there,and then coupled with a forthcoming trial,,,he gave the impression of being void of emotion,,etc. Which wouldn't have been the case. How does anyone know how a person feels,or what they're thinking.? He was now being nailed for something that clearly he didn't do,,and probably at the time,,couldn't understand.
I am quoting a passage written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who showed the weakness of this category of evidence when he wrote,quote " it must be confessed that circumstantial evidence can never be absolutely convincing, and that it is only the critical student of such cases who realises how often a damning chain of evidence may, by some slight change,be made to bear an entirely different interpretation," unqote.
It was circumstantial evidence that convicted Jeremy Bamber. The question is,did the police interpret the evidence in the correct way,or could the very different interpretation, that Sheila Caffell committed the murders before killing herself,,,be correct.?
The jury had no knowledge of who would therefore benefit from JB's conviction. RB,,DB,,,and AE,had frequently visited the police and accompanied them to WHF.
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The fact of the matter is that it was quite possible that the extended family members weren't aware of Sheila having "gone beserk " on a few occasions whereby if JB hadn't been present at WHF at the time of these scenario's happening,,then Ralph would automatically phone Jeremy for help/assistance to calm Sheila down.
I doubt if any of these " outbursts " were ever told to anyone,as Ralph was a private person and held in high regard. It would have been against his better judgement to have let this sort of a " scene " get beyond the immediate family.
It's no wonder JB had told the police that " she was mad ",,,,he'd seen it all before,,and back then there was little understanding about such a condition.
This is why,on the night/morning of the murders that Ralph phoned Jeremy before the police,,,thinking that if Jeremy was there,between them they'd be able to calm Sheila as they had done before,,,,because if Sheila had heard mention about the police it would have inflamed the situation further.
Hence the fact that Jeremy was in no particular hurry to get to WHF,,because of past events where they've been able to calm the situation.
But this time it was different in that Sheila had a gun,,,to which Jeremy had thought it was nothing more than a threat,,,but before JB himself rang the police,he rang JM asking her did she think he'd be doing the right thing in calling the police in,,,,which we all know he did after he'd spoken to JM.
JB,must have got the shock of his life when he reached the farmhouse,,,to learn that it wasn't just one of Sheila's usual threats and outbursts. He was visibly shocked and shaken to realise the extent of what had happened.
However,,,with the shock and trauma that JB must have suffered,but hadn't got time to show with the police presence there,and then coupled with a forthcoming trial,,,he gave the impression of being void of emotion,,etc. Which wouldn't have been the case. How does anyone know how a person feels,or what they're thinking.? He was now being nailed for something that clearly he didn't do,,and probably at the time,,couldn't understand.
I am quoting a passage written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who showed the weakness of this category of evidence when he wrote,quote " it must be confessed that circumstantial evidence can never be absolutely convincing, and that it is only the critical student of such cases who realises how often a damning chain of evidence may, by some slight change,be made to bear an entirely different interpretation," unqote.
It was circumstantial evidence that convicted Jeremy Bamber. The question is,did the police interpret the evidence in the correct way,or could the very different interpretation, that Sheila Caffell committed the murders before killing herself,,,be correct.?
The jury had no knowledge of who would therefore benefit from JB's conviction. RB,,DB,,,and AE,had frequently visited the police and accompanied them to WHF.
sometimes you can put your foot in it i do question as to why some of the relatives were keen to get the case moving, with little to go on how could they speed the investigation up, despite the nature of the crimes the officers assigned to the case would have been decided by someone in great authority the relatives had no right to get things moving thats why police officers are paid goog money.
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Grahame
Have to agree that there is every possibility that a third party could have been involved. There are so many possibilities and so little hard evidence we have to be careful of argui.g from one direction ie. Jeremy or Sheila. All theories reach a dead end and I always have the feeling there is somethi.g obvious which is being missed .
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I know Mertol.. It's all wrong. The jury had " no knowledge " of a lot of things,,,,and there's one thing I can't abide,and that's a weak defence,,which clearly it has been from day one,and look at the obscene amount they get for failing to use common sense,something which doesn't need a degree. Though saying that,,,it makes me wonder. Police also come under that category as well. Dormant grey matter.
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FAO------MIKE.
Is there any possible way that you can find out how many times Ralph called Jeremy to help restrain Sheila when she was having her " outbursts ".? It would help immensely. These " turns " of hers were kept pretty " hush hush " you see.
On the night of the murders,JB just imagined it to be one of Sheila's usual psychotic episodes,,which by all accounts he was used to. It's like someone " crying wolf ",where you tend not to take much notice of,,then when something drastic does happen,you're ill-prepared.
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Re The Posts 813, 820 and 821, by Mike and Grahame, could someone say, whether the itemised Billing, allegedly held and withheld by EP, would indicate the timing, duration, and ORIGIN, of PB's all important call to her sister, on the eve of the massacre?
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Re The Posts 813, 820 and 821, by Mike and Grahame, could someone say, whether the itemised Billing, allegedly held and withheld by EP, would indicate the timing, duration, and ORIGIN, of PB's all important call to her sister, on the eve of the massacre?
Personally I'm not sure they exist. But if they did then the times would certainly be present as they are today because that is the purpose of them.
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The billing campion mentioned wouldn't show PB's call at all, because it would, at best, be on PB's bill, not Nevill's.
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Grahame don,t give sheep too much credit they would not know what to do with a camera probably think it was a Yorkshire Pudding.
They haven't been here Susan and thats it. They will have to be careful when they sit down, because they my crush their miniscule brains. ;D What a load of gullible tit heads they are over there on the silly forum. I really am amazed at the very real lack of brains there are there. Which is hardly surprising if they are followers of old numpty features Lamberton...BAAAAAA. ;D ;D
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The billing campion mentioned wouldn't show PB's call at all, because it would, at best, be on PB's bill, not Nevill's.
Sorry I'm a bit slow this morning. Who's PB?
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PB = Pamela Boutflour.
Regarding vidvic's post, it's been stated by mike tesko that he will post those bills once Jeremy's current CCRC application has been settled (i.e. with no further review possible). Also, mike tesko didn't say he had a copy of the image handed in to the CCRC, only a copy of a different image that he'd "lost" years ago, and hadn't acknowledged before because he'd taken it from Ewen Smith without authorization. The alleged importance of the 'Z' image is that it showed clearly that Sheila had only one wound; mike hadn't seen such an image until shown it by 'Z' recently, so GDS presumably didn't know about it.
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Hi Grahame I was told that all 5 of them are very young and immature.
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Hi Reader, I am obliged to you for your Communications expertise. You got the gist of my enquiry about details of Auntie Pam's significant late night telephone call. O K, sew if JB and WHF were under (special branch) surveillance for a month, prior to the slaughter, would not EP, via S----------H ( PII ) BE AWARE OF THIS INFORMATION??
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Well I see the fact that a panic alarm was fitted to be very significant and has been overlooked by some. Because the reason that it was installed was because of the very real threat to the Bamber family.
I have a theory that of course cannot be proved one way or another. It is just my theory. It has subjective evidence which is the say so of a certain contact that I have (it isn't an attempt to be cloak and dagger by the way).
Here's what my theory is. Jeremy receives a call in the early morning from his father telling him that Sheila has gone crazy with the gun/a gun. That was Ralph who was being forced by a third party assassin (the one or ones who had threatened the family's lives. The attacker/s beat him until he complied with their request and threatened to shoot the others or one of the family if be didn't. This was an attempt by them to get Jeremy round to WHF. Instead Jeremy phoned the police. On hearing police cars approaching up Pages Lane the killer/s killed the rest of the family, or Sheila if she was the last to die (quite easy for two people to force her head backwards in order to shoot her by pulling her hair back). before fleeing the house by unknown means (man seen scuttling away from the farm).
Operation half successful. Unfortunately Jeremy wasn't there or he would have been their last victim and their task would have been complete and a perfect murder.
The rest you can make what you will of it.
But what I will say is this: There are certain people in very influential positions whom it will not benefit to see Jeremy released. I have believed this for some time. Let me ask you one question. Why are their so many people who are interested in the case of Jeremy Bamber? And why are so many people concerned at the prospect of his release? I'm sorry, but it just isn't good enough to say its because he's child murderer. There are many other child murderers who don't even receive a fraction of the publicity that JB has, or have receive even a quarter of the hatred that JB has.
So WHY are people so interested in him and why are they so concerned for him to remain in jail? It is as if the CCRC are accommodating someone by wilfully preventing the simplest of evidence to pass their eyes? They are protecting someone and this someone (And I said this at the very beginning remember) has perhaps millions invested in this? Mark my words. I will be very surprised (but pleased) if JB's legal team win this Judicial review?
Mark this also. Why has Simon McKay been researched and some are trying their hardest to discredit him as soon as he took up this case? I can name at least three people who have done so. Why now? Why not at any other time? Why as soon as he took up JB's case? I am afraid JB has a very big fight in order to obtain his get out of jail card. Because thiscase goes right to the top and it involves vast sums of money and big business. I have said this from the very beginning. There are dark forces that are at work here (I'm not being religious here) these forces are quite tangible and real and are doing their utmost to keep JB in prison.
Just look at the hatred against those who think him innocent. Just think of the vast resistance by a great deal of people and those who mock those who think he is innocent. It is quite unnatural and seemingly paranoid reactions to it all. eg: Just the other day Rochford made a very simple and obvious question to a member who has obviously rejoined the forum and had been frequenting the silly other forum and the immediate reaction to his comment was "you're paranoid". What a strange reaction. They obviously couldn't see that it was their reaction that was paranoid and not Rochford.
Now as I said my view of events is only a theory and probably leaves itself open to many questions which could be justified. But the last piece of information I gave you. That is real. I have known almost from the beginning and that is the reason JB will have a devil of a fight to get out of Gaol. You will be surprised just how high this thing goes and there are people on this forum who know that what I am saying to you is true.
Hi, Grahame, and thankyou for your insightful and impassioned response.
Whilst I admit to not being quite as convinced as you of Jeremy's innocence, I suspect you have the same abhorrence of injustice as I.
It is interesting that I've posted, on another thread, almost the same as you have said in the paragraph in which you begin "But what I will say is this," however, I suspect that my knowledge is more instinctive than yours and sadly, much of what I "know" has no basis other than my own conviction.
To accept your theory, there are several questions which need answering and whist I have the feeling that you could give them, I think you maybe, either can't or won't. I would like to know which member of this quiet, selfcontained, respectable, middle class family had attracted the attention of an assassination squad, and why? What you imply goes way beyond any petty, interfamilial squabbles over position, property or land and whilst the family could be described as being "comfortable," I very much doubt their coffers contained "vast sums". That being so, what is left? Neville, well liked, trusted, respected, taking backhanders!!!? He was a local magistrate, not a highcourt judge. Jeremy getting his fingers burned by playing with the "big boys?" I do believe he liked to portray himself as one of their number because he thought it "bigged" him up, impressed others but I don't believe he was anywhere near as clever as he wished to be seen, so for this reason I don't see him as masterminding anything which resulted in the wholesale slaughter of his family and whilst, back then, he came across as an arrogant poseur who treated both police and press with a degree of contempt (perhaps with reason) it didn't make him a murderer.
I get what you say about feelings regarding Jeremy as running high. A person of my acquaintance was appalled when I mentioned his name, but for the most part, those feelings are contained within this forum. I'm aware there have been some contentious issues and that some members treat others less than courteously but thankfully most of us are able to enjoy an exchange of views and are open enough to change our own views if someone elses makes more sense.
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I don't know what information exists about SB involvement, except that nobody has disputed that Ps Woodcock was in SB at the time. SB are very secretive. According to mike tesko, Jeremy was being investigated in relation to drugs. That needn't have involved SB. I doubt whether it's known whether that investigation ever included keeping a log of any calls, let alone whether such logging was being done on the night in question.
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Hi Reader, I am obliged to you for your Communications expertise. You got the gist of my enquiry about details of Auntie Pam's significant late night telephone call. O K, sew if JB and WHF were under (special branch) surveillance for a month, prior to the slaughter, would not EP, via S----------H ( PII ) BE AWARE OF THIS INFORMATION??
You've got it campion. Can anybody tell me the significance of this picture? (it is copyright by the way so it may not be here long. It also is classed as secret)
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The ultimate phallic symbol?
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You've got it campion. Can anybody tell me the significance of this picture? (it is copyright by the way so it may not be here long. It also is classed as secret)
What is it Grahame?
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Hi, Grahame, and thankyou for your insightful and impassioned response.
Whilst I admit to not being quite as convinced as you of Jeremy's innocence, I suspect you have the same abhorrence of injustice as I.
It is interesting that I've posted, on another thread, almost the same as you have said in the paragraph in which you begin "But what I will say is this," however, I suspect that my knowledge is more instinctive than yours and sadly, much of what I "know" has no basis other than my own conviction.
To accept your theory, there are several questions which need answering and whist I have the feeling that you could give them, I think you maybe, either can't or won't. I would like to know which member of this quiet, selfcontained, respectable, middle class family had attracted the attention of an assassination squad, and why? What you imply goes way beyond any petty, interfamilial squabbles over position, property or land and whilst the family could be described as being "comfortable," I very much doubt their coffers contained "vast sums". That being so, what is left? Neville, well liked, trusted, respected, taking backhanders!!!? He was a local magistrate, not a highcourt judge. Jeremy getting his fingers burned by playing with the "big boys?" I do believe he liked to portray himself as one of their number because he thought it "bigged" him up, impressed others but I don't believe he was anywhere near as clever as he wished to be seen, so for this reason I don't see him as masterminding anything which resulted in the wholesale slaughter of his family and whilst, back then, he came across as an arrogant poseur who treated both police and press with a degree of contempt (perhaps with reason) it didn't make him a murderer.
I get what you say about feelings regarding Jeremy as running high. A person of my acquaintance was appalled when I mentioned his name, but for the most part, those feelings are contained within this forum. I'm aware there have been some contentious issues and that some members treat others less than courteously but thankfully most of us are able to enjoy an exchange of views and are open enough to change our own views if someone elses makes more sense.
Hi April. I can tell you two things. (1) Ralph and his family had received death threats. I believe it was from someone he sent down? (2) Jeremy was (it is said by some) involved in drug smuggling. Regarding this I think that Jeremy may be holding back on information? Then again, maybe he has nothing to tell? I can tell you one more thing about Ralph which I cannot elaborate on. Several men from his old regiment died under mysterious circumstances.
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What is it Grahame?
Let's see if someone can tell us?
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What is it Grahame?
.....and where is it?
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Do we get a clue Grahame, maybe someone can phone a friend.....!!
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.....and where is it?
The clue is in campion's post. Do a bit of research and you "may" just find it? But as I said and pictures of that area are counted top secret and so almost all images of this have been taken down by the authorities.
One more clue. It is a surveilance tower somewhere that I propose pertains to this case?
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Stokenchurch communications tower.
Is there a prize?
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Hi Grahame I would be happy just to see the picture why can everybody see it but me.
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Stokenchurch communications tower.
Is there a prize?
Correct. The prize is that you are a good detective. How did you find it if you don't mind me asking? And can you tell me the connection it has with this case?
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Hi Grahame I would be happy just to see the picture why can everybody see it but me.
Not sure Susan?
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Grahame I am so annoyed no wonder I can,t solve this case when I am being denied all the evidence ;) ;) ;)
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Correct. The prize is that you are a good detective. How did you find it if you don't mind me asking? And can you tell me the connection it has with this case?
I just stuck communications tower in Geograph and it came up with pics of various ones, including that one. I assume the connection is just the name of the operation? It's a BT tower isn't it?
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Hi Grahame I would be happy just to see the picture why can everybody see it but me.
Good afternoon Susan
Can you see ANYTHING on the post by Grahame?
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Susan you must have your computer set so that images cannot be shown. I don't know how you can unlock it, but I am sure one of the wizards on here can help.
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And by the way, that is a crap prize! >:(
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Correct. The prize is that you are a good detective. How did you find it if you don't mind me asking? And can you tell me the connection it has with this case?
The ability to trace calls?
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I just stuck communications tower in Geograph and it came up with pics of various ones, including that one. I assume the connection is just the name of the operation? It's a BT tower isn't it?
Yes it is. I am sure campion would like to elaborate on this one? He may be online later. I'll let him explain as it was his idea to post it. Me? I know narthing, I know narthing. ::)
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The ability to trace calls?
I think it has a relevence in the police operation in regards to Jeremy's drug dealings?
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Hi Buddy I really need a wizard as I am missing out on so much. Could it be to do with being on a Dial Up Connection.
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Hi Buddy I really need a wizard as I am missing out on so much. Could it be to do with being on a Dial Up Connection.
Dunno Susan, but I am sure someone will. Sorry.
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Hi April. I can tell you two things. (1) Ralph and his family had received death threats. I believe it was from someone he sent down? (2) Jeremy was (it is said by some) involved in drug smuggling. Regarding this I think that Jeremy may be holding back on information? Then again, maybe he has nothing to tell? I can tell you one more thing about Ralph which I cannot elaborate on. Several men from his old regiment died under mysterious circumstances.
Grahame, are these two things linked?
Regardfing the drug smuggling, if an "error" on Jeremy's part caused the annihilation of his family, it must have been HUGE and I can only assume that there is still a contact out on him because he would surely know who was responsible. If this is the case, there's quite a conundrum here. He's inside for murders he didn't commit but if he's ever released it's likely that he won't live to enjoy his freedom. What would happen if he told the truth about his involvement?
Mysterious deaths of fellow regiment members-wasn't Neville in the airforce-could suggest a pact made to hold a secret...... about what? A wartime escapade, boys being boys....or worse, a wartime atrocity which only they were party to. Or espionage? SB has been mentioned.But doesn't it rather step outside the box when families of regiment members are slaughtered. Unless, of course, the merry band of brothers did not dissolve after the war and formed some kind of shadey alliance.
And in the meantime, there's your mysterious picture to ponder. Curiouser and curiouser!!!
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Hi Buddy I really need a wizard as I am missing out on so much. Could it be to do with being on a Dial Up Connection.
Susan can you see other images that are posted here?
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And by the way, that is a crap prize! >:(
Well I did send out an action man to deliver your prize. But his body was found at the bottom of a high cliff and the chocolates were scattered all around him together with the note, "And all because the lady loves Milk Tray". :(
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Why is it whevenever I look at the title of this thread instead of reading "how I lost the phot" as that is all the title I can see. I instead read, "how I lost the plot"?
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Why is it whevenever I look at the title of this thread instead of reading "how I lost the phot" as that is all the title I can see. I instead read, "how I lost the plot"?
Ha ha! I think exactly the same thing whenever I see it on the front page.
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Hi Grahame the only thing I see is the words that come up I can see images if I get a thread to click on. When you read the post does the image come up below the wording Confused.com
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Thankyou for the intro Bloggs and Son, the --famous Essex firm.
Hi Pop Pickers, remember Alan FREEMAN (RIP)? Well, it was found by chance, looking for Red Kites, for SUSAN, at the Stokenchurch RSPB Sanctuary, near J5 on the M40, near Chequers, DC's pad.
It was allegedly taken by someone called A.CROWE.
Keira was keen to elucidate a connection between A Pargeter, and the nomenclature Oeration Stokenchurch.
It is also to do with Rochford's HARRIS's Birds, which are like BuZZzzzards, but hunt in packs. They look a little like BRYLCREEM Boys. Mertol (mYRTLE !) might call them ERKS. 'CUE
9((
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Some brilliant posts on here today. Crikey I don't know where to start.....
I agree with most of them.
I also agree about a 3rd party....I also believe drugs were involved....
Witnesses form the village reported that they had received envelopes containing 100 quid....
They also reported torches under the hedge rows, it was assumed these torches were for drug drops....
Nevill had a licence to grow opium....both Jeremy and Sheila took drugs....it was the 80's, the drug scene had hit market...
I think it is the powers to be that are keeping JB locked up.....There I have said it.... :P :o :o :o :o
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Jeremy getting his fingers burned by playing with the "big boys?" I do believe he liked to portray himself as one of their number because he thought it "bigged" him up, impressed others but I don't believe he was anywhere near as clever as he wished to be seen, so for this reason I don't see him as masterminding anything which resulted in the wholesale slaughter of his family and whilst, back then, he came across as an arrogant poseur who treated both police and press with a degree of contempt (perhaps with reason) it didn't make him a murderer.
Very good April.
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Grahame, are these two things linked?
Regardfing the drug smuggling, if an "error" on Jeremy's part caused the annihilation of his family, it must have been HUGE and I can only assume that there is still a contact out on him because he would surely know who was responsible. If this is the case, there's quite a conundrum here. He's inside for murders he didn't commit but if he's ever released it's likely that he won't live to enjoy his freedom. What would happen if he told the truth about his involvement?
Mysterious deaths of fellow regiment members-wasn't Neville in the airforce-could suggest a pact made to hold a secret...... about what? A wartime escapade, boys being boys....or worse, a wartime atrocity which only they were party to. Or espionage? SB has been mentioned.But doesn't it rather step outside the box when families of regiment members are slaughtered. Unless, of course, the merry band of brothers did not dissolve after the war and formed some kind of shadey alliance.
And in the meantime, there's your mysterious picture to ponder. Curiouser and curiouser!!!
I can't say April? It is only a theory after all. Nothing can be proved either way? But JB certainly dealt in drugs.
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Some brilliant posts on here today. Crikey I don't know where to start.....
Witnesses form the village reported that they had received envelopes containing 100 quid....
Wish I'd lived there, I could have done with it in '85
They also reported torches under the hedge rows, it was assumed these torches were for drug drops....
Perhaps they were there to light the way to the local coven on the Essex marshes!!
Nevill had a licence to grow opium....both Jeremy and Sheila took drugs....it was the 80's, the drug scene had hit market...
I think it is the powers to be that are keeping JB locked up.....There I have said it.... :P :o :o :o :o
Only joking, Patti. I'm 99% with you.
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Hi Grahame the only thing I see is the words that come up I can see images if I get a thread to click on. When you read the post does the image come up below the wording Confused.com
Hi Susan. Open up your browser settings and just look in there for a possible reason? Possibly reader can help you on that one? Or of course you could open another browser?
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Grahame don,t even know what a browser is so it would appear I am a no hoper only been on the internet for 2 years I really just know to press keys and send. What can be done with me.
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Suzzzie, Have you seen the picture yet?
Blodwynflower re your Post 857, 'the ability to trace calls''- but also consider:- Could the Crime Scene have been monitored from the sky?, bearing in mind it was light from approx 5.30am.
When Mick ----- ? placed the placard (which apparently perturbed JB ) on the the top of WHF via the roof opening, was he expecting it to be seen by his associates back at HQ ? This facility could have been accomplished, by the Sattelite Technology available from the Stokenchurch MAST (foa Bridget/DCrump- ties! up).
You may consider this 'Pie in the Sky',or a 'Wild Goose C(h)ase', but I prefer to allude it to a 'Red Kite Flight !!
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Hi campion poor Suzzzie has seen no pictures and does not expect to either because I think my laptop is past it :) :) :)
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Towards the back end of 2003 and the beginning of 2004, the relationship between Jeremy and self was somewhat strained because I was in regular communication with Ewen Smith and Jeremy wanted to be in control of everything himself. This resulted in me copying every letter and document I sent to Jeremy by using a scanner and I saved everything on the computer I was using at the time. I copied everything, I sent and received from Jeremy, it is all on the old drive in one of my old computers, I have removed them and they are in storage. I was led to believe that I could purchase some sort of a lead which I could them connect to my current computer via USB and access all the material. Does anyone know what lead I need to purchase, and how much it will cost?
does this tells the true story? did they fall out as far back as this? Maybe Mike holding the picture back for some kind of sick pleasure?..........
NO. I don't want to believe that,but it fits nicely with Mikes version of events.
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Suzie, Go direct on Google, Key in RAF Stokenchurch mast photos. Good hunting.
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Campion Thanks for that I am off go ogling not yodelling :) :) :)
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Oh Suzie, You are Cryptic, but I do like you!
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Oh Suzie, You are Cryptic, but I do like you!
Tales from the cryptic. :)
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campion I like you TOO after all the pics I have looked at this afternoon not sure why I am looking at them but they were so nice ;) ;) ;)
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Some brilliant posts on here today. Crikey I don't know where to start.....
I agree with most of them.
I also agree about a 3rd party....I also believe drugs were involved....
Witnesses form the village reported that they had received envelopes containing 100 quid....
They also reported torches under the hedge rows, it was assumed these torches were for drug drops....
Nevill had a licence to grow opium....both Jeremy and Sheila took drugs....it was the 80's, the drug scene had hit market...
I think it is the powers to be that are keeping JB locked up.....There I have said it.... :P :o :o :o :o
I guess I struggle with some of these because although they sound plausible in isolation, they beg questions as to the validity of other things and taken together things seem to not add up.
The third party - I assume that the person was involved on the night. But then, we need to remember that Ralph phoned both the police and Jeremy and clearly said it was Sheila. Additionally, Ralph went as far as telling the police Sheila's age in what appears to be quite a coherent phone call.
As for drug drops and lights, Jeremy himself says "This very idea is just laughable and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise."
I don't know about the £100 for the villagers, but I'd happily read about it if someone points me in the right direction.
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Hi elphick I agree with you think the drugs drop is nonsense. As far as the third party involved I have to keep telling myself this was not just murders it was a frenzied attack by a person filled with hate and very deranged. Why would anybody want to murder the little twins because of drugs etc they would have just gone for Ralph. I think Ralph was savagely beaten when dead or near death for murders like that to be carried out their has to be strong feelings of hate and anger plus I think religious connotations were prevalent in the massacre.
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Hi elphick I agree with you think the drugs drop is nonsense. As far as the third party involved I have to keep telling myself this was not just murders it was a frenzied attack by a person filled with hate and very deranged. Why would anybody want to murder the little twins because of drugs etc they would have just gone for Ralph. I think Ralph was savagely beaten when dead or near death for murders like that to be carried out their has to be strong feelings of hate and anger plus I think religious connotations were prevalent in the massacre.
Hi Susan, I agree with much of what you say.
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I guess I struggle with some of these because although they sound plausible in isolation, they beg questions as to the validity of other things and taken together things seem to not add up.
The third party - I assume that the person was involved on the night. But then, we need to remember that Ralph phoned both the police and Jeremy and clearly said it was Sheila. Additionally, Ralph went as far as telling the police Sheila's age in what appears to be quite a coherent phone call.
As for drug drops and lights, Jeremy himself says "This very idea is just laughable and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise."
I don't know about the £100 for the villagers, but I'd happily read about it if someone points me in the right direction.
Hi Elphick...You are right. But, there could be a possibility that Nevill was forced to make that call. But, in all fairness, and I totally agree, we tend to wonder of course a little bit....
The only thing that bugs me Elphick is Sheila, the position she is in, the bible, two shots and her cleanness. I know it is possible that she could have showered to meat her maker, but why put night clothes on, why not meet you maker dressed up? Then, of course you would have to be in her minds thoughts I suppose at the time.... :) :) :) :)
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Hi Patti Wow you are in demand tonight. Am I right in thinking your Aunt got herself ready to meet her maker before she committed suicide hope I have this right
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Hi Elphick...You are right. But, there could be a possibility that Nevill was forced to make that call. But, in all fairness, and I totally agree, we tend to wonder of course a little bit....
The only thing that bugs me Elphick is Sheila, the position she is in, the bible, two shots and her cleanness. I know it is possible that she could have showered to meat her maker, but why put night clothes on, why not meet you maker dressed up? Then, of course you would have to be in her minds thoughts I suppose at the time.... :) :) :) :)
Hi Patti, I'd happily believe that Ralph was forced to make the call to Jeremy (since it was cut off) but I can't reconcile that with the purported evidence that Ralph also called the police directly, giving a coherent account. I can't see him being forced to make two calls. Additionally, I can't see a third party taking such a risk, since they would not have known the whereabouts of any mobile units - for example a car may have only been 5 minutes away.
What do you think of the evidence that Ralph called the police directly? Do you think he did?
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Sheila was actually found with the rifle across her body,as opposed to longways towards her neck,which to my mind has given the impression that she shot herself, well the second shot anyway. Something else that doesn't ring true.
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Patti
Millionaire coggleshall farmer James Bell50killed his estranged wife Augusta 22 in Upper Billingford. Norfolk.He married Augusta after serving 6months in prison for an attack on his first wife They had been married for 4weeks when he shot augusta and himself. Sounds a bit of a psycopath to me.
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Hi Patti, I'd happily believe that Ralph was forced to make the call to Jeremy (since it was cut off) but I can't reconcile that with the purported evidence that Ralph also called the police directly, giving a coherent account. I can't see him being forced to make two calls. Additionally, I can't see a third party taking such a risk, since they would not have known the whereabouts of any mobile units - for example a car may have only been 5 minutes away.
What do you think of the evidence that Ralph called the police directly? Do you think he did?
Hi Elphick
I have thought about the phone call from Nevill to the police...I am not sure that he did, I#m not sure if he didn't.
PC West that took that call, then passed all the information to HQ or where ever. So he made another log out in his collar number....and passed the info on....saying call from Mr Bamber... (meaning Jeremy).... who lives at WHT daughter of Nevill Bamber has gone beserk with a gun...she is 27 as oppose to being 26....It's all so confusing....
What doesn't help is the conflicting stories and false information I have been reading....you sort of get drawn into it and, before you know it, the murder was done by a local man in his 30's, who worked on the farm.....hahaha
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Hi Elphick
I have thought about the phone call from Nevill to the police...I am not sure that he did, I#m not sure if he didn't.
PC West that took that call, then passed all the information to HQ or where ever. So he made another log out in his collar number....and passed the info on....saying call from Mr Bamber... (meaning Jeremy).... who lives at WHT daughter of Nevill Bamber has gone beserk with a gun...she is 27 as oppose to being 26....It's all so confusing....
What doesn't help is the conflicting stories and false information I have been reading....you sort of get drawn into it and, before you know it, the murder was done by a local man in his 30's, who worked on the farm.....hahaha
In most crimes patti the one single part which generates the most questions are the times of events.
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Hi Patti. I've noticed you have some difficulty accepting that Sheila cld have carried out the murders given what you consider to be her "cleanness". If this is so why did the coroner not pick up on this? He must have been happy with the original murder/suicide verdict and at this stage there was no thought of Sheila showering and/or changing her clothes.
The other day you mentioned the close range shot to June between the eyes and that had Sheila have been the killer she wld have had blood staining on her clothes. But as I understand it, given the weapons and ammunition used, Sheila would not necessarily have incurred blood staining from the victims' wounds?
I don't know Pattie. I'm asking the ? to improve my understanding.
Must go for my daily run now.
Hi egap, I don't know why the pathologist did not pick on it, I thought he said he could not determine whether it was suicide or murder. Nor, could he prove she had been in the shower. I can't prove she had and nor can anyone else. It is an assumption, it could be likely.
The other day, when I was talking about the position of Sheila and June and if you stood them both up, from their laying positions, they would both be facing one another, which would make it possible for Sheila to have made the shot between June's eyes, for the spatter goes in that direction too....There is no spatter from June's where she is laid near the door, so therefore it is possible, that she was standing near the bottom of the bed, when she received the shot.
Yes, Sheila would have received back spatter from her victims, especially from the shots to the head. It is known that all shots were at close range. You can see the spatter all over the bedroom floor, your not telling me the spatter went around the person who made the shot, but still managed to land on the floor....for that is not possible.
I know I sound conflicting egap, but that is because nothing can be proved and there is lack of evidence and forensics.....
All the finger pointing towards Sheila for the past 27 years....makes me wonder, that Jeremy has been fooled....and, he strongly believes his sister had done the murders because he gets a phone call at circa:15 in a morning from his father...She= Sheila has a gun, come over..or something to those words...then live goes dead...he tries to ring back the line is engaged. From that ponit a few seconds of his fathers voice he deduced it was his sister who had the gun.....
But, when you look at the crime scene, it does not add up...It looks like June is more the likely one to have had the gun, than her daughter. Why was Sheila at that side of the bed? Why didn't Sheila have blood on her feet after the shower, she had walked through the bedroom that has blood all over the floor...but the pathologist said they were clean...
Sheila certainly had the mental illness, no doubt about that. She was a troubled soul. I also think she would be capable of using a gun, but could she be that vicious? I don't know...... If the police had done their job in the first place, we wouldn't be debating on it all now and maybe Jeremy would be working hard on the small holding he wanted to buy in Devon..... :) :)
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I would be happy just to see the picture why can everybody see it but me?
At the top of each page on the forum, there should be a "^" character in white (above and slightly to the left of the page title). Is it there? Also, is the PC (or laptop) doing anything else that's a bit annoying or not quite right? How old is the computer?
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Morning reader yes the symbol is there the laptop behaves very well considering it is about 8 year old my Dial Up Connection is slow but bearable the laptop has not had so much use.
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Hi back again the symbol is opposite where it says Recent Posts it is a white triangle shaped thing is this the one you meant ;)
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All the finger pointing towards Sheila for the past 27 years....makes me wonder, that Jeremy has been fooled....and, he strongly believes his sister had done the murders because he gets a phone call at circa:15 in a morning from his father...She= Sheila has a gun, come over..or something to those words...then live goes dead...he tries to ring back the line is engaged. From that ponit a few seconds of his fathers voice he deduced it was his sister who had the gun.....
But, when you look at the crime scene, it does not add up...It looks like June is more the likely one to have had the gun, than her daughter. Why was Sheila at that side of the bed? Why didn't Sheila have blood on her feet after the shower, she had walked through the bedroom that has blood all over the floor...but the pathologist said they were clean...
Sheila certainly had the mental illness, no doubt about that. She was a troubled soul. I also think she would be capable of using a gun, but could she be that vicious? I don't know...... If the police had done their job in the first place, we wouldn't be debating on it all now and maybe Jeremy would be working hard on the small holding he wanted to buy in Devon..... :) :)
Patti, I concur with all you say here, which leads me to my next question. When Neville phoned Jeremy did he say ".....your sister", "Sheila", "She"(maybe a family diminuative for Sheila) OR did he perhaps, say "she", which may have meant June, and he couldn't bring himself to say it?
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Hi Patti, I'd happily believe that Ralph was forced to make the call to Jeremy (since it was cut off) but I can't reconcile that with the purported evidence that Ralph also called the police directly, giving a coherent account. I can't see him being forced to make two calls. Additionally, I can't see a third party taking such a risk, since they would not have known the whereabouts of any mobile units - for example a car may have only been 5 minutes away.
What do you think of the evidence that Ralph called the police directly? Do you think he did?
It is my opinion that he did not. But when the police log was found which gave the impression that he did, Jeremy mistakenly thought that was evidence that would help him although his legal team apparently tried to persuade him not to use it for CCRC.
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There is simply no proof of any call from nevill to anyone, only bamber's word.
Even if you take bamber's word, listen to his last recorded interviews with the guardian. He is quite clear. He said Sheila.
The original trial was set around this phrase, as it meant that either bamber or Sheila, no one else, could be responsible.
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There is simply no proof of any call from nevill to anyone, only bamber's word.
Even if you take bamber's word, listen to his last recorded interviews with the guardian. He is quite clear. He said Sheila.
The original trial was set around this phrase, as it meant that either bamber or Sheila, no one else, could be responsible.
Thats a fair comment and explains why the judge summed up as he did.
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Thats a fair comment and explains why the judge summed up as he did.
Except, of course, having a gun, holding a gun, "going beserk and has a gun" isn't tantamount to USING a gun, but when one of the only two suspects is somewhere other than the SOC, it seems ludicrous to pin it on him.
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Except, of course, having a gun, holding a gun, "going beserk and has a gun" isn't tantamount to USING a gun, but when one of the only two suspects is somewhere other than the SOC, it seems ludicrous to pin it on him.
I assume that's why they didn't at first.
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I assume that's why they didn't at first.
I believe it was the family that changed the course of the investigation? Soon after that Julie Mugford confessed her criminal errors which strangely lead to her statement about her former unfaithful boyfriend.
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I believe it was the family that changed the course of the investigation? Soon after that Julie Mugford confessed her criminal errors which strangely lead to her statement about her former unfaithful boyfriend.
Pressure, pressure, pressure.... Mugford comes forward (but actually doesn't come forward).... silencer with adults blood appears, as if by magic?
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Pressure, pressure, pressure.... Mugford comes forward (but actually doesn't come forward).... silencer with adults blood appears, as if by magic?
Which now, if we are to believe American experts, has nothing to do with Sheila because it is possible that the gun was fired without the silencer.
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Which now, if we are to believe American experts, has nothing to do with Sheila because it is possible that the gun was fired without the silencer.
Which we will eventually know if the CCRC allow JB's appeal to go ahead?
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Pressure, pressure, pressure.... Mugford comes forward (but actually doesn't come forward).... silencer with adults blood appears, as if by magic?
Only, it was the other way around.
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Only, it was the other way around.
In which sense?
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David found the silencer a while before mugford came forward.
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There is simply no proof of any call from nevill to anyone, only bamber's word.
Even if you take bamber's word, listen to his last recorded interviews with the guardian. He is quite clear. He said Sheila.
The original trial was set around this phrase, as it meant that either bamber or Sheila, no one else, could be responsible.
This is a good post.
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David found the silencer a while before mugford came forward.
Which is what I said I think?
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Pressure, pressure, pressure.... Mugford comes forward (but actually doesn't come forward).... silencer with adults blood appears, as if by magic?
Like the shop keeper in Mr Benn pick a costume to suit jeremy.
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David found the silencer a while before mugford came forward.
With blood on it :-\ But knowledge that this bloody silencer was away at the lab with results awaited, didn't come in to play regarding the 6th September review reporting to top brass (which nobody knew about for 27 years)? And the police telephone record states he found it on 11th September?
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Like the shop keeper in Mr Benn pick a costume to suit jeremy.
Nice one, Mertol ;D
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Which now, if we are to believe American experts, has nothing to do with Sheila because it is possible that the gun was fired without the silencer.
and Possible fired with the silencer? or has that been catagoricaly ruled out by the US experts?
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and Possible fired with the silencer? or has that been catagoricaly ruled out by the US experts?
Because of the actions of the CCRC we may never know?
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With blood on it :-\ But knowledge that this bloody silencer was away at the lab with results awaited, didn't come in to play regarding the 6th September review reporting to top brass (which nobody knew about for 27 years)? And the police telephone record states he found it on 11th September?
Does the telephone record actually say that, or is it a record dated the 11th of September which mentions that he found a silencer but doesn't say when?
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Does the telephone record actually say that, or is it a record dated the 11th of September which mentions that he found a silencer but doesn't say when?
Does it say, silencer found in gun cupboard?
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Hi Patti, I'd happily believe that Ralph was forced to make the call to Jeremy (since it was cut off) but I can't reconcile that with the purported evidence that Ralph also called the police directly, giving a coherent account. I can't see him being forced to make two calls. Additionally, I can't see a third party taking such a risk, since they would not have known the whereabouts of any mobile units - for example a car may have only been 5 minutes away.
What do you think of the evidence that Ralph called the police directly? Do you think he did?
Hi Elphick, I'm not 100% sure that is a telephone log from Nevill. Both logs were done West, but each one is different....It could be that he made another log outlining what Jeremy had told him about his father's call to HQ. I suppose it could be debated in court that it was Nevill, it would be up to the jury to decide. It is possible that he was forced to make a call and phoned JB up instead of the police and was cut off...then forced to make a call to police, but why?
It could be that someone wanted JB over there......to make is look like 6 murders...or JB was set up....Or Sheila did shoot her family........ :) :) :)
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Patti, I concur with all you say here, which leads me to my next question. When Neville phoned Jeremy did he say ".....your sister", "Sheila", "She"(maybe a family diminuative for Sheila) OR did he perhaps, say "she", which may have meant June, and he couldn't bring himself to say it?
Hi april. Jeremy does doubt this in his early statement....but he is now adamant that she did it. I am 80 % convinced she did, but there is a part of me that can't except certain things. I am also 100% sure JB did not, he didn't have the guts to kill......On the other hand he could have been fooled for 27 years into thinking it was Sheila...He has never given up, I will say that for him and, neither would I... :) :) :)
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Does the telephone record actually say that, or is it a record dated the 11th of September which mentions that he found a silencer but doesn't say when?
Does it say, silencer found in gun cupboard?
The Case of Jeremy Bamber 22.08.11
45. Furthermore Document S15, clearly shows a telephone message from David Boutflour on 11th September 1985 at 15.20 stating he has found a silencer with blood on it logged as message 13.
46. Moreover, there are no references to a sound moderator having been found at White House Farm in Ann Eaton’s witness statements until her fifth submission on 12th September 1985.
47. While on the 13th August 1985, DS 21 Jones showed DI Miller the sound moderator and drew his attention to the red paint and blood present upon it, (See DI Miller’s statement dated October 1985, Document AB – 13).
48. On the 14th August 1985 DS 21 Jones took a witness statement from Ann Eaton and there is no mention of a sound moderator having been discovered on the 10th August 1985. While it is also asserted that Ann Eaton spent the day with DI Cook, DS Jones and DI Miller to show them where DRB/1 had scratched the red mantel shelf, (see DI Cook Statement to COLP page 21, Document S 10).
49. It is submitted that if it was true that DRB/1 was found on the 10th August 1985 then it would be logical for her to mention the discovery because it was deemed so relevant by officers and indeed herself.
64. Furthermore, a Telephone Message Report 44 states that David Boutflour phoned Essex Police insisting he be interviewed about finding a sound moderator covered in blood, (Message 44 taken between 12th and 17th September 1985, Index Card 1, 18th September 1985/ Holmes 2 Account
49, Document 37/160 ).
65. In addition Telephone Message 38 states,
‘11th September 1985: From David Boutflour. He has found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in downstairs office,’ (see Document S 15).
66. While Index Card for Silencer states: ‘7. Action 195. Boutflour mentions silencer in gun cupboard at scene and he suggests possible layouts of items in cupboard,’ (see Document P – 32).
67. Similarly, David Boutflour confirms in his witness statement dated 12th September 1985 that he,
‘informed the police of the finding of the telescopic sight and sound moderator,’ (see Document AB – 6).
68. Furthermore, it is also asserted that the HOLAB 3 forms regarding David Boutflour’s entries have, ‘no date when found’ on them. Other exhibit entries on the HOLAB 3 forms have a date attributed to them, as to when they were found.
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Hi Patti,,,,Nevill would never involve the police if he could avoid doing so,,,,probably on account of his position as a magistrate,,,which in a way,I can understand.
It had been said that with past experiences of Sheila's psychotic outbursts,that both Nevill,with the help of Jeremy,had been able to calm Sheila without going to the extreme.
There's every possibility that Jeremy had treated the situation as " just another of Sheila's do's ",,,rather than taking the situation seriously. I would say in all honesty,that he wasn't prepared for what was happening,and had happened.
Because initially it was being treated as a " domestic ",,would be a reason why Jeremy was told to " make his own way to the farm " as opposed to being collected by the police,,,,otherwise,I can't understand why the police didn't pick him up,,,especially after the event where Jeremy wouldn't have been deemed fit to drive.
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Hi Elphick, I'm not 100% sure that is a telephone log from Nevill. Both logs were done West, but each one is different....It could be that he made another log outlining what Jeremy had told him about his father's call to HQ. I suppose it could be debated in court that it was Nevill, it would be up to the jury to decide. It is possible that he was forced to make a call and phoned JB up instead of the police and was cut off...then forced to make a call to police, but why?
It could be that someone wanted JB over there......to make is look like 6 murders...or JB was set up....Or Sheila did shoot her family........ :) :) :)
I think one log was written by West (a record of what Jeremy told him) and the other was written by Malcolm Bonnett (a record of what West passed on to him).
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65. In addition Telephone Message 38 states,
‘11th September 1985: From David Boutflour. He has found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in downstairs office,’ (see Document S 15).
Ok, so that could equally be David being a PITA and chasing them because he hadn't heard anything. Where are the actual message logs, I was looking for them earlier and couldn't find them.
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Hi april. he didn't have the guts to kill......
Patti, I think you're spot on in this!!! BUT, I feel that there was an element of the 24, going on 16, year old Jeremy, arrogant, naive, contemptuous, cocky and in his own eyes, a bit of a hard man, which in the beginning relished the attention, played to the gallery and probably saw it as almost a compliment that he was seen by those he wished to impress,as being capable of such a crime. Sadly, he came from a world where arrogance took precedence over humility, a little more of which may have seen him walk free.
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Hi april1 I agree with every word you say Jeremy in is own naive way did not think it possible he could be found guilty I think he relished the attention played to the gallery as if he was in some kind of film he did not take the Court case seriously and really helped to convict himself, I think he was very immature just a boy craving attention and I am sure he made remarks to his girlfriend about he would do this and that but he was all talk I think it was one of the relatives who said Jeremy would not have the guts to commit these murders Tony Pargeter (not sure about the spelling) was the guy. I bet with hindsight Jeremy has looked back and thought if only.
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I think one log was written by West (a record of what Jeremy told him) and the other was written by Malcolm Bonnett (a record of what West passed on to him).
You will find both phone logs here:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,133.30.html
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Patti, I think you're spot on in this!!! BUT, I feel that there was an element of the 24, going on 16, year old Jeremy, arrogant, naive, contemptuous, cocky and in his own eyes, a bit of a hard man, which in the beginning relished the attention, played to the gallery and probably saw it as almost a compliment that he was seen by those he wished to impress,as being capable of such a crime. Sadly, he came from a world where arrogance took precedence over humility, a little more of which may have seen him walk free.
And to top it all police with no sense of humour. :(
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Patti, I think you're spot on in this!!! BUT, I feel that there was an element of the 24, going on 16, year old Jeremy, arrogant, naive, contemptuous, cocky and in his own eyes, a bit of a hard man, which in the beginning relished the attention, played to the gallery and probably saw it as almost a compliment that he was seen by those he wished to impress,as being capable of such a crime. Sadly, he came from a world where arrogance took precedence over humility, a little more of which may have seen him walk free.
He wanted to show this was a farce he reminded me of JR Ewing very sure and confident this was going to be thrown out of court i truly believe upon the verdict it knocked the living daylights out of him which exists to this day.
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You will find both phone logs here:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,133.30.html
Hmm.. I meant the logs which show the call on the 11th of September from DB, but I see in that thread there are snippets of the Bews, Myall and Saxby statements some of us have been asking for.
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Hmm.. I meant the logs which show the call on the 11th of September from DB, but I see in that thread there are snippets of the Bews, Myall and Saxby statements some of us have been asking for.
No I think you posted in response to Patti's post which mentioned the telephone logs from Jeremy and Nevill? Here:
Hi Elphick, I'm not 100% sure that is a telephone log from Nevill. Both logs were done West, but each one is different....It could be that he made another log outlining what Jeremy had told him about his father's call to HQ. I suppose it could be debated in court that it was Nevill, it would be up to the jury to decide. It is possible that he was forced to make a call and phoned JB up instead of the police and was cut off...then forced to make a call to police, but why?
It could be that someone wanted JB over there......to make is look like 6 murders...or JB was set up....Or Sheila did shoot her family........
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No I think you posted in response to Patti's post which mentioned the telephone logs from Jeremy and Nevill?
Sorry, yes you're right. I also replied to Roch wanting the other thing though.
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Um.. It wasn't me that said that to Elphick though!
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Um.. It wasn't me that said that to Elphick though!
No but it was you that questioned it Bridget. see post 1018.
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No but it was you that questioned it Bridget. see post 1018.
Now you have me completely confooosed - do you mean #918? If so, I was also asking about the 11th September call from DB in that one.
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Ok, so that could equally be David being a PITA and chasing them because he hadn't heard anything. Where are the actual message logs, I was looking for them earlier and couldn't find them.
Bridget, personally I find that explanation improbable.. Fair play to you for using your brain though ;) In the unlikely event that any prosecution witnesses end up in the dock, you could potentially be of use to them. This is the only document that I know of.
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Bridget, personally I find that explanation improbable.. Fair play to you for using your brain though ;) In the unlikely event that any prosecution witnesses end up in the dock, you could potentially be of use to them. This is the only document that I know of.
Ho ho ;)
The message seems to have been cut off mid sentence, so there must be more somewhere.
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The message seems to have been cut off mid sentence, so there must be more somewhere.
That's the first time I've seen that suggested... interesting. Can you think of a reason for it to be cut off? The doc looks like a ropey photocopy.
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Now you have me completely confooosed - do you mean #918? If so, I was also asking about the 11th September call from DB in that one.
fergetit it aint important anyway. ;D
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That's the first time I've seen that suggested... interesting. Can you think of a reason for it to be cut off? The doc looks like a ropey photocopy.
Where did you find it Rochford? I wonder if there are any other clearer copies anywhere? The missing words could be anything?
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That's the first time I've seen that suggested... interesting. Can you think of a reason for it to be cut off? The doc looks like a ropey photocopy.
I think you'd have to know how HOLMES worked at the time to answe that, but my guess is that that is a print out from the front page list, and the fields may have been character limited. Maybe there was a way to access the full record from that front page.
Also, might there not be a hand written record of the call, like there is for the JB/West and West/Bonnett calls?
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Where did you find it Rochford? I wonder if there are any other clearer copies anywhere? The missing words could be anything?
I pinched it from one of the sites. It might have been this one. It's interesting what Bridget has pointed out. Mike once posted up a photocopied evidence schedule which appeared to have been tampered with by placing something over one of the boxes, so that the typed entry was missing. He suggested it was something to do with the silencer but if memory serves me correctly, I think it related to the one allegedly found on the day of the incident.
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I think you'd have to know how HOLMES worked at the time to answer that, but my guess is that that is a print out from the front page list, and the fields may have been character limited. Maybe there was a way to access the full record from that front page.
Also, might there not be a hand written record of the call, like there is for the JB/West and West/Bonnett calls?
So this is a Home Office document and not an EP schedule? Handwritten stuff seems to be off limits to the defence. The only handwritten stuff I've seen is the COLP / Dickinson notes (not sure which is which :-[)
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So this is a Home Office document and not an EP schedule? Handwritten stuff seems to be off limits to the defence. The only handwritten stuff I've seen is the COLP / Dickinson notes (not sure which is which :-[)
I don't know, maybe a better description would be an EP document generated on the HO system. It might help if we could see the whole thing.
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The interesting thing about this entry relating to the find of a silencer by David Boutflour, is that is was reported has having been found on 11th September 1985, yet police claim they collected it on evening of 12th August 1985, and that Boutflour had already found it once in the same gun cupboard on 10th August 1985. Beats me why Boutflour should be reporting the find of the silencer on 11th September 1985, when he had already reportedly found it a month sooner, and it has already been handed to the police a month earlier - why would you report to the police details about the find of a silencer a month after you had already reported its find, and a month after police already had taken possession of it?
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Mike, please read post no. 943. Can you remember the schedule I am referring to?
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. . . the symbol is opposite where it says Recent Posts it is a white triangle shaped thing is this the one you meant
No, it's not. However, the tower picture is large and would take some time to download. Maybe you didn't wait long enough.