Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on January 13, 2012, 02:02:PM
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Information has been received to suggest how during a one hour period, Sheila communicated with police at the scene by her mimicking A barking, whining dog, which served to confuse the firearms officers into not being able to pinpoint her position inside the farmhouse, due to the family pet dog also barking and reacting to Sheila`s antics? These diversionary tactics served to keep police at bay, until WPC Jeapes spotted the rifle which Sheila lolled against the bedroom window...
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will the last person reading this forum please turn out the lights.......
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Information has been received to suggest how during a one hour period, Sheila communicated with police at the scene by her mimicking A barking, whining dog, which served to confuse the firearms officers into not being able to pinpoint her position inside the farmhouse, due to the family pet dog also barking and reacting to Sheila`s antics? These diversionary tactics served to keep police at bay, until WPC Jeapes spotted the rifle which Sheila lolled against the bedroom window...
Well I suppose that's one way of getting round the barking dog issue. ;D
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Well I suppose that's one way of getting round the barking dog issue. ;D
Someones barking!
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Information has been received to suggest how during a one hour period, Sheila communicated with police at the scene by her mimicking A barking, whining dog, which served to confuse the firearms officers into not being able to pinpoint her position inside the farmhouse, due to the family pet dog also barking and reacting to Sheila`s antics? These diversionary tactics served to keep police at bay, until WPC Jeapes spotted the rifle which Sheila lolled against the bedroom window...
MIKE YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING? GIVE ME STRENGTH.
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To be fair, this is just about as reasonable as some of the other mad cap theories presented, actually more so than some. ::)
(In my opinion).
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Dont know about me Mike,but i think you need carting off!!
If you look out of the window there should be a van with square wheels waiting for you ;)
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im off to work, have fun!!!
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Hartley...'Formerly iNumpty'
;D ;D
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Well, that is the information I have received, and it was as a result of Sheila adopting these tactics that she was able to keep the wolf from the door so to speak. The firearms team had never come up against such a diversionary tactic before, and they did not know what to do for the best?
It was evident that by the time Sheila rested the rifle against the bedroom window at about 7.15am, the polIce were completely and utterly convinced that she was quite literally 'barking mad and off her head`...
More significantly...
she was known to be in possession of a loaded gun...
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Hartley...'Formerly iNumpty'
;D ;D
;D If I can't take the pish out of my self then it's not really on if others do. ;D
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;D If I can't take the pish out of my self then it's not really on if others do. ;D
It's the 'formerly' I'm questioning ;)
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It's the 'formerly' I'm questioning ;)
Aaaah I see, 'currently' would perhaps be more appropriate I'm guessing. :P
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There's going to be some backwash for this 'elsewhere' :-\
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There's going to be some backwash for this 'elsewhere' :-\
You've lost me a bit there Rochy. ???
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You've lost me a bit there Rochy. ???
I think he means the guilty page Harts
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I think he means the guilty page Harts
Oh, okay. :-\
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I think the police dog handler at the scene should have dealt with this - not the TFU ::)
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I meant on Rantville. Where the other lot live. Better find a tin hat from somewhere quick.
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Well, that is the information I have received, and it was as a result of Sheila adopting these tactics that she was able to keep the wolf from the door so to speak. The firearms team had never come up against such a diversionary tactic before, and they did not know what to do for the best?
It was evident that by the time Sheila rested the rifle against the bedroom window at about 7.15am, the polIce were completely and utterly convinced that she was quite literally 'barking mad and off her head`...
More significantly...
she was known to be in possession of a loaded gun...
What that when your informant chucked a brick through your rear car window and shouted, "Don't forget to tell them will you". ;D
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I meant on Rantville. Where the other lot live. Better find a tin hat from somewhere quick.
Can't you just ignore them?
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Can't you just ignore them?
Thats not the point Harts.
Sorry to invade your post Roch.
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Can't you just ignore them?
I personsally don't go there. But people on here just keep reminding me of those munchkins who live in the merry old land of OZ.
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You've lost me a bit there Rochy. ???
I think Rochy is suggesting that the kind of madness that Mike has posted at the start of this thread is an open goal for the commentators over in Lambyland.
I could be wrong though (about what Rochy means - I'm definitely not wrong about the original post being comedy gold ;) ).
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I think Rochy is suggesting that the kind of madness that Mike has posted at the start of this thread is an open goal for the commentators over in Lambyland.
I could be wrong though (about what Rochy means - I'm definitely not wrong about the original post being comedy gold ;) ).
Do keep up Bob ;D
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Information has been received to suggest how during a one hour period, Sheila communicated with police at the scene by her mimicking A barking, whining dog, which served to confuse the firearms officers into not being able to pinpoint her position inside the farmhouse, due to the family pet dog also barking and reacting to Sheila`s antics? These diversionary tactics served to keep police at bay, until WPC Jeapes spotted the rifle which Sheila lolled against the bedroom window...
what drivel. whatever next...
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There is already documentary evidence that within a window of opportunity between 5.25am and 6.30am, firearms officers were in conversation with someone from inside the farm, and it is also documented that the sound of a dog was heard to barking from within the farmhouse. Now, since the police were aware of the type of dog inside the farmhouse, why is it that the barking which was heard was not specifically attributed to the dog in question?
Since, at 5.25am, firearms officers were in conversion with A person from inside the farm, and there are instances of dog barking from within the same farmhouse, how can anyone prove that it was not a person making the noises that were recorded as dog barks?
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Who gave you this wonderful information?
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I think Rochy is suggesting that the kind of madness controversy that Mike has posted at the start of this thread is an open goal for the commentators over in Lambyland pro boards forum
Can't you just ignore them?
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Roch? How do you do the 'crossed out but still readable' thing?
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Roch? How do you do the 'crossed out but still readable' thing?
The buttons on the top left of your panel are Bold / Italics Underline Score
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Cheers! :D
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The buttons on the top left of your panel are Bold / Italics Underline Score
Oh right I'm not going to try that.
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Oh right I'm not going to try that.
You just HAVE
What's the Mona Lisa button do? I once opened it and now I have a permanent massive low res Mona Lisa on my computer screen. Haven't got a clue how to get rid of it.
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You just HAVE
What's the Mona Lisa button do? I once opened it and now I have a permanent massive low res Mona Lisa on my computer screen. Haven't got a clue how to get rid of it.
;D ;D ;D You're one of those guys who when they see a button which says "don't press" immediately go and press it. If you didn't want the mona lisa why did you press it? ;D
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There is already documentary evidence that within a window of opportunity between 5.25am and 6.30am, firearms officers were in conversation with someone from inside the farm, and it is also documented that the sound of a dog was heard to barking from within the farmhouse. Now, since the police were aware of the type of dog inside the farmhouse, why is it that the barking which was heard was not specifically attributed to the dog in question?
Since, at 5.25am, firearms officers were in conversion with A person from inside the farm, and there are instances of dog barking from within the same farmhouse, how can anyone prove that it was not a person making the noises that were recorded as dog barks?
So you can PROVE SC was barking like a dog then Mike? Is there EVIDENCE to PROVE the police DID NOT attribute the barking to the dog in question,otherthan hearsay or i'll post it at a future date (...)
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So you can PROVE SC was barking like a dog then Mike? Is there EVIDENCE to PROVE the police DID NOT attribute the barking to the dog in question,otherthan hearsay or i'll post it at a future date (...)
I personally believe the barking of a dog can be attributed to a dog barking ::), but I look forward to Mikes answer ???
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I personally believe the barking of a dog can be attributed to a dog barking ::), but I look forward to Mikes answer ???
Yeah,I thought it the most likely...
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OMG They're not all locked up are they??!!
:P
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I personally believe the barking of a dog can be attributed to a dog barking ::), but I look forward to Mikes answer ???
Well I thought it to me most logical. If it can be interpreted that Sheila was barking like a dog it is equally as logical to assume that the dog was talking like Sheila. Therefore we must assume from that, that Sheila was dead at that time because it must have been the dog talking. ....erm... (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-718.gif) (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)
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Well I thought it to me most logical. If it can be interpreted that Sheila was barking like a dog it is equally as logical to assume that the dog was talking like Sheila. Therefore we must assume from that, that Sheila was dead at that time because it must have been the dog talking. ....erm... (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-718.gif) (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)
LMAO ;D
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Well I thought it to me most logical. If it can be interpreted that Sheila was barking like a dog it is equally as logical to assume that the dog was talking like Sheila. Therefore we must assume from that, that Sheila was dead at that time because it must have been the dog talking. ....erm... (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-718.gif) (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)
Sounds logical to me. ;D
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Bad language and obscenities were heard, was that the dog or sheila then ;) :o
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Bad language and obscenities were heard, was that the dog or sheila then ;) :o
Really. People will teach their dogs anything these days. ::)
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You've got to be kidding me here! Sheila barking. Now I've heard it all... :o
Personally I think the "conversation with someone from within the farmhouse" was simply with Jeremy, and the noises heard from within the farmhouse were the dog barking.
Until I see evidence of it being other than that, I stand firm - without barking and all!
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You've got to be kidding me here! Sheila barking. Now I've heard it all... :o
Personally I think the "conversation with someone from within the farmhouse" was simply with Jeremy, and the noises heard from within the farmhouse were the dog barking.
Until I see evidence of it being other than that, I stand firm - without barking and all!
I remember Robert Boutflour said she was barking. Or something similar? ::)
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I remember Robert Boutflour said she was barking. Or something similar? ::)
:o
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:o
Meaning she was to him barking mad. Or words to that effect.
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Barking mad does not a murderer make......but it's a good start!
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Barking mad does not a murderer make......but it's a good start!
Janet, You seem to be changing your views very quickly from JB innocent to JB guilty?
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not quite sure makes healthy debate
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Janet, You seem to be changing your views very quickly from JB innocent to JB guilty?
Maybe she is just saying what she sees without pitching her tent in either court. :-\
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Maybe she is just saying what she sees without pitching her tent in either court. :-\
Yes possibly?
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Maybe she is just saying what she sees without pitching her tent in either court. :-\
If someone is not sure there should be no reason to after all the verdict was guilty everyone went back home on that day everyone bar Jeremy Bamber why the 2 tents?
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If someone is not sure there should be no reason to after all the verdict was guilty everyone went back home on that day everyone bar Jeremy Bamber why the 2 tents?
I think I should invest in a Tom-Tom, I keep getting lost. :-[
Sorry mertol, can you expand?
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You all really need to pay attention...
I am not saying Sheila was literally barking like a dog, what I am saying is that this is how police later described such communications. Fact is, Sheila screamed obscenities, she ranted and raved, she howled like a wolf, she roared like a lion, she bellowed like a grizzly bear, she whined like a dog, cried like a baby, laughed like an hysterical clown, murmured, shouted, sang like an angel, cursed the police like a devil - and the police recorded all of these exchanges, as a dog barking...
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You all really need to pay attention...
I am not saying Sheila was literally barking like a dog, what I am saying is that this is how police later described such communications. Fact is, Sheila screamed obscenities, she ranted and raved, she howled like a wolf, she roared like a lion, she bellowed like a grizzly bear, she whined like a dog, cried like a baby, laughed like an hysterical clown, murmured, shouted, sang like an angel, cursed the police like a devil - and the police recorded all of these exchanges, as a dog barking...
In some instances, police were not sure that what they were hearing was Sheila, or the dog, or vice versa...
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Furthermore...
The way these communications, or conversations, and exchanges were recorded between the police outside the farmhouse, and Sheila inside, has so far not yet been disclosed, or admitted to by the police, but such exchanges were real and kept the police at bay for over three and a half hours, albeit there was only a one hour period between about 5:25am and 6:30am, when these communications took place...
Essex police are withholding the evidence that Sheila was still alive, inside the farmhouse, under pii...
The logs which have been released thus far only tell part of the story, and have themselves in parts been edited...
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No direct record has yet been published of communications between members of the raid team and (a) each other, (b) senior officers at the scene in the command post situated in a nearby outbuilding, (d) other officers at the scene who conducted duties of containment and support, (e) the control room, and (f) senior officers elsewhere...
All that has thus far been disclosed, are fragmented and incomplete messages, passed in the main by the occupants of CA07 from the scene, to the control room - but CA07 occupants had to get their information from another source, because none of these three police officers (PS Bews, PC Myall or PS saxby) were part of the firearms team, and none entered the farmhouse at any stage...
The closest two of them (PS Bews, PC Myall and Jeremy) got to the farmhouse was at about 4am when they saw the person/figure at the bedroom window, and dashed out of the grounds of the farmhouse back to the patrol car, to pass the request for the firearms team to be deployed to the scene because of what they had been witnessing...
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There would have been and were parts of these exchanges which the firearms team could not differentiate between Sheila and the dog inside the farmhouse, and other exchanges which there could be no doubt at all, that were being made by Sheila...
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How did the occupants of CA07 receive the information which they passed to the control room at 7:37am - the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female found upon entry into the kitchen?
The patrol car was parked a long way from the farmhouse, it was parked up alongside the farm cottages in pages lane, so how did that information get passed or was received by the occupnats of CA07 from officers inside the farmhouse?
There had to be a means of communication, between the officers inside the farmhouse at that time, and the occupants of CA07 which was parked up in pages lane, to enable CA07 to pass messages to the control room?
The control room, on the other hand would be monitoring what was taking place inside the farmhouse via the telephone eavesdrop, an arrangement which had been set up some time beforehand which enabled them to hear the screamings, and rantings, howling, and murmurings made by Sheila in response to challenges made to the occupants of the farmhouse. This line of communication via the telephone intercept was patched through to the firearms team at the scene, and this was why CA07 played the role of being the primary radio link from the scene to the control room, subject of disclosures...
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Police also obtained information about how many telephones were fitted and known to be in use, which did not help matters either, because although it had been established by the operator that the telephone handset was off its cradle, what was not known until police got into the farmhouse, was which telephone handset was actually off its cradle?
This created a logistical problem for the firearms officers and other police at the scene and elsewhere, since although they could hear the communications made by Sheila from inside the farmhouse, they could not pinpoint whereabouts inside the large farmhouse she was at the time such exchanges were made during that one hour period between about 5:25am and 6:30am...
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The contents of the disclosed log from the scene, the source of which is/was CA07 to the control room does not match the true circumstances of what police found and came up against before the firearms team entered the farmhouse, or afterwards...
Large important and as yet undisclosed transcripts and recordings have thus far not yet been disclosed, but continue to be withheld, under pii...
These other records contain the evidence that Sheila made many communications in the form of screamings, rantings, howlings, whinings, and all sorts of unimaginable noises made during that one hour period, and that some of these exchanges have been put down as a dog barking, but clearly most of the other exchanges, could not have been made by any dog...
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It was these communications or exchanges between the firearms team at the scene and Sheila inside the farmhouse, which served to prevent the firearms team from trying to get inside the farmhouse until much later, after WPC Julia Jeapes spotted the rifle which Sheila had been using or in possession of, having been leant against the bedroom window - a rifle which had up until that time not previously been resting there...
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I can see that everyone is not taking this matter seriously enough, but that is fine by me, but it is/was no laughing matter and the consequences were serious for Sheila, her family and the police, both at the scene and elsewhere...
Before anyone dismisses the noises which Sheila was making during these exchanges with the firearms team (which have in some instances during the incident been described as a dog barking) people need to look into the illness that Sheila was suffering with, and from...
A good place to start would be at the following link:-
(1) - http://www.namigc.org/content/fact_sheets/mentalillnesses/Schizophrenia/web-%20understanding%20schizophrenia1204.htm
"The person may talk nonsense, make up words, or replace words with sounds and rhymes."
Look here, also:-
(2) - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-some-examples-of-nervous-tics.htm
(3) - http://www.wisegeek.com/how-does-the-brain-work.htm
(4) - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-tourettes.htm
(5) - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-coprolalia.htm
(6) - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-trauma.htm
(7) - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071002142942AAde4Tb
(8) - http://ppdsupport.com/article/2010/09/28/dealing-psychosis-attack
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The audio recordings of the telephone eavesdrop contain the actual evidence that Sheila was still alive, and making all manner of sounds and noises, and in some instances she mimicked the dog barking, whining and howling, amongst screamings, and ranting of obscenities...
Evidence of this is also contained in other logs kept at the scene, and elsewhere, which documents the challenges made to the occupants of the farmhouse and the firearms team between around 5:25am and 6:30am...
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Otty Sanchez:-
(1) - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/26/otty-sanchez-mother-says-_n_245124.html
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Andrea Yates:-
(1) - http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/index.html
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You all really need to pay attention...
I am not saying Sheila was literally barking like a dog, what I am saying is that this is how police later described such communications. Fact is, Sheila screamed obscenities, she ranted and raved, she howled like a wolf, she roared like a lion, she bellowed like a grizzly bear, she whined like a dog, cried like a baby, laughed like an hysterical clown, murmured, shouted, sang like an angel, cursed the police like a devil - and the police recorded all of these exchanges, as a dog barking...
I've heard of such things.
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The audio recordings of the telephone eavesdrop contain the actual evidence that Sheila was still alive, and making all manner of sounds and noises, and in some instances she mimicked the dog barking, whining and howling, amongst screamings, and ranting of obscenities...
Evidence of this is also contained in other logs kept at the scene, and elsewhere, which documents the challenges made to the occupants of the farmhouse and the firearms team between around 5:25am and 6:30am...
and you've heard these Mike?
If you yourself haven't heard them I reckon someones else is barking up the wrong tree, so to speak...
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There will be the "devil to pay" when the truth comes out...
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and you've heard these Mike?
If you yourself haven't heard them I reckon someones else is barking up the wrong tree, so to speak...
You don't know what I have been shown, given or been told, which places you at a considerable disadvantage, unfortunately for you...
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I would strongly advise everybody to think twice about the fact that police have disclosed a record suggesting that the "dog inside the house was barking", until the police produce the audio recordings from the telephone eavesdrop during that crucial one hour period between 5:25am and 6:30am, since during that period firearms officers at the scene were in conversation of sorts with a person (not a dog) from inside the farm...
People who make posts about matters and issues like this, should get their facts right, before making such comments...
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Experts doing live-firing tests in Arizona today for @Bambertweets. Report due in time for CCRC submission deadline of 31 January 2012.
Very interesting
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Lets get the facts right...
Jeremy was not even present at the scene at 5:25am, when firearms officers were engaged in conversation with a person from inside the farm, since he was being escorted to a nearby village to make the call to Julie Mugford - so "who exactly", were police at the scene at 5:25am, in a conversation with, from inside the farm, at that precise time?
A relative perhaps?
A hitman?
Ralph Bamber?
June Bamber?
Sheila Caffell?
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Live rounds in Arizona?
Sounds like attention to detail by the defence
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What I am saying, is that references to a dog barking in any of the disclosed material, covering that hour long period between 5:25am and 6:30am, may not necessarily relate to the dog barking...
Now...
You are all free to think what you want, but I would strongly advise everyone to proceed with care, because Essex police "cannot be trusted" in how the so called evidence has been produced in this case...
The truth has definitely not yet been told by the police...
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What I am saying, is that references to a dog barking in any of the disclosed material, covering that hour long period between 5:25am and 6:30am, may not necessarily relate to the dog barking...
Now...
You are all free to think what you want, but I would strongly advise everyone to proceed with care, because Essex police "cannot be trusted" in how the so called evidence has been produced in this case...
The truth has definitely not yet been told by the police...
Will the truth ever come out in your opinion ?
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Will the truth ever come out in your opinion ?
Just like a guilty Adam and Eve they're hiding something, or they would not hold so much back after being asked so many times for it. If those PII files show nothing then why bother to hide them? That's the bit that intrigues me?
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Generally speaking, what I am saying is that references to a dog barking, should be treated as a possible reference to exchanges and communications made by Sheila with firearms officers at the scene. Now these exchanges were not made on a direct one to one basis, but were responses made by Sheila to challenges being made to the occupants of the farmhouse, by the firearms officers, which Sheila did respond to, during a one hour period between 5;25am and 6;30am...
The truth of the matter is, from what I have been told, is that (1) police made challenges to the farmhouse using a loud hailer, and (2) Sheila gave responses, which have been recorded in the disclosed logs as a dog barking, but the fact is that police at the scene did not hear these responses directly, only via the telephone eavesdrop which had been patched through to them at the scene by the operator. Now the information I have received, is that Sheila was not to know that the firearms officers outside the farmhouse could not hear her responses directly, and that they only heard them through the patched up eavesdrop, as described...
This is part of the information I have been provided with...
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Will the truth ever come out in your opinion ?
Yes...
I believe we are on the verge of the truth finally coming out, regarding these exchanges, and what kept the firearms officers from getting into the farmhouse before 7:30am...
I have been told that somebody linked to this case, who is representing Jeremy's interests, is on the threshold of uncovering the missing evidential link, but only time will tell if what I have been told proves to be correct...
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One of the problems linked to this matter is that there was a dog inside whf, which did bark from time to time, but this dog could not be heard to be barking by the police outside the farmhouse in the grounds, only and except via the eavesdrop, which had been set up by the operator...
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To understand what actually took place, we need to understand how different parties at the scene and elsewhere communicated with each other?
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To understand what actually took place, we need to understand how different parties at the scene and elsewhere communicated with each other?
For example...
The contents of the disclosed log, thus far, relate to communications from the scene between the occupants of CA07 and the control room - all the other communications and records are being withheld under pii...
thank you...
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For example...
The contents of the disclosed log, thus far, relate to communications from the scene between the occupants of CA07 and the control room - all the other communications and records are being withheld under pii...
thank you...
Lets get something right, the occupants of CA07 did not enter the farmhouse, nor were they involved directly in containment duties at the scene as part of the firearms operation which started off and continued from 5am, onwards...
Don't let this distract everyone from what the police did, and what they got up to, and why they have taken the action they have taken to keep what they did under wraps for over 26 years...
Lets get the facts right, Sheila died at the scene as a result of the firearms teams incompetence, not because Jeremy shot her dead in the bedroom and stage managed her body to make it look like she had taken her own life?
lets get the facts right...
The forearms officers who first entered the farmhouse, did not stage manage Sheila's body either, the stage managing came later, once all but three of the firearms officers, had left the scene...
Jeremy Bamber is truly innocent, no matter what anybody says to the contrary...
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To understand what actually took place, we need to understand how different parties at the scene and elsewhere communicated with each other?
Why is it, that the only account which has so far been disclosed, involves messages that were passed from the scene to the control room, by the occupants of CA07?
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Essex police are somewhat reluctant to disclose the other logs, because to do so would establish that they knew Sheila was still very much alive, and that she did not actually die in the bedroom until an occasion after the raid team entered the farmhouse, and to be even more specific, that the second shot was not inflicted under Sheila's chin, until an occasion after the police surgeon, Dr Craig (accompanied by PI 'Bob' Miller) had already confirmed her as being dead (:44am)...
fact is...
Sheila was not dead, and she only had one wound on her neck/throat by that stage...
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Sheila was certainly responding to challenges made by firearms officers to the occupants of the farmhouse, during that crucial one hour period between about 5:25am and 6:30am, and responding to the challenges made by police during that period...
This is what kept the firearms team from making an attempt to get into the farmhouse before 7:30am...
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Sheila was certainly responding to challenges made by firearms officers to the occupants of the farmhouse, during that crucial one hour period between about 5:25am and 6:30am, and responding to the challenges made by police during that period...
This is what kept the firearms team from making an attempt to get into the farmhouse before 7:30am...
Up until that point (6:30am)...
police did not think that Sheila had shot or killed anyone...
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And Jeremy, what, 50m away?, knew nothing about any of this??
None of the police outside heard any of this?
The only way of knowing was through the phone link?
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Up until that point (6:30am)...
police did not think that Sheila had shot or killed anyone...
at around 6:30am, police knew that Sheila had fired shots, and that was why they called for an ambulance to attend the scene. Because the shot, or the shots they heard through the telephone intercept occurred in a relatively short time of each other, police thought that the shootings could be linked to one victim rather than to several?
This could be related to the officers report relating to the shooting incident in the kitchen (at 6:30am)...
Why don't Essex police simply disclose the contents of this officers report?
What shooting incident in the kitchen?
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And Jeremy, what, 50m away?, knew nothing about any of this??
None of the police outside heard any of this?
The only way of knowing was through the phone link?
So we are not at cross purposes, and to prevent any misunderstanding, what precisely are you making reference to?
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Jeremy was not present at the scene, for a considerable amount of time, since he was escorted away to a local village to make the necessary call that he did make to Julie Mugford, that morning...
Now, all of this took time up, time which Jeremy could not have been present at the scene, and I would suggest was the opportunity which the firearms team at the scene took to try and establish contact with the occupants of whf?
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OK...
I ask anyone to pinpoint the closest telephone box situated to whf, so that we can gauge how long it took for Jeremy to be escorted away from the scene, to make the call to Julie Mugford, and then get back to the farmhouse?
If no-one else can provide this information, then the next time I am down in that neck of the woods, I will endeavour to check this issue out, myself?
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How much of a coincidence is it, that firearms officers at the scene, are in a conversation with a person from inside the farm, at a time when Jeremy was away from the scene, making the telephone call to Julie Mugford?
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How much of a coincidence is it, that firearms officers at the scene, are in a conversation with a person from inside the farm, at a time when Jeremy was away from the scene making the telephone call to Julie Mugford?
Furthermore...
that any references to a "dog barking" during this period, when Jeremy was not present at the scene, could in fact be a reference to communication's or exchanges made by Sheila to challenges made to the occupants of the farmhouse?
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Now...
I would like someone to explain to me in plain English, who "the person" or the "someone", that was engaged in conversation at the scene, from inside the farm at 5:25am, could be?
Since...
It could not have been Jeremy, because to all intents and puroposes, he was not there at that time?
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Did Sheila make noises similar to a dog barking, or whining?
I think so, I think she did, or that she could have done, yes..
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Experts doing live-firing tests in Arizona today for @Bambertweets. Report due in time for CCRC submission deadline of 31 January 2012.
Very interesting
If you find out any more information on this,could you please let us know?
It does sound interesting!
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You don't know what I have been shown, given or been told, which places you at a considerable disadvantage, unfortunately for you...
shown,given or told. thought so thanks for clarifing that Mike
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I would strongly advise everybody to think twice about the fact that police have disclosed a record suggesting that the "dog inside the house was barking", until the police produce the audio recordings from the telephone eavesdrop during that crucial one hour period between 5:25am and 6:30am, since during that period firearms officers at the scene were in conversation of sorts with a person (not a dog) from inside the farm...
People who make posts about matters and issues like this, should get their facts right, before making such comments...
and+1
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Information has been received to suggest how during a one hour period, Sheila communicated with police at the scene by her mimicking A barking, whining dog, which served to confuse the firearms officers into not being able to pinpoint her position inside the farmhouse, due to the family pet dog also barking and reacting to Sheila`s antics? These diversionary tactics served to keep police at bay, until WPC Jeapes spotted the rifle which Sheila lolled against the bedroom window...
I thought I'd repost the first quote Mike. Re read it and you'll see that whatever you subsequently post can not be taken seriously. If everything you say is true, the credibility of the post is blown out the water by the ridiculous "her mimicking A barking,whining dog" unreal...
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Sheila mimicked the sound of a dog barking at times which confused the firearms team because they could not pinpoint her location inside the farmhouse at specific times, and it was not until WPC Jeapes spotted the rifle at the bedroom window that police knew which part of the house she was at or in at that precise moment in time. There were other times, when it was obvious to the firearms team that it was Sheila, for example, when she was screaming and shouting obscenities, ranting and raving...
These activities kept the firearms at bay and prevented them from raiding the farmhouse for two and a half hours...
People can believe what they want to, but the truth is that something prevented the firearms team from going into the farmhouse to try and save the lives of five individuals (two of them little children) and that reason was Sheila who put the fear of god into them...
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Sheila mimicked the sound of a dog barking at times which confused the firearms team because they could not pinpoint her location inside the farmhouse at specific times, and it was not until WPC Jeapes spotted the rifle at the bedroom window that police knew which part of the house she was at or in at that precise moment in time. There were other times, when it was obvious to the firearms team that it was Sheila, for example, when she was screaming and shouting obscenities, ranting and raving...
These activities kept the firearms at bay and prevented them from raiding the farmhouse for two and a half hours...
People can believe what they want to, but the truth is that something prevented the firearms team from going into the farmhouse to try and save the lives of five individuals (two of them little children) and that reason was Sheila who put the far of god into them...
Exactly. "the truth is something prevented the firearms team"
I don't know what prevented them,I truly don't,I could make guesses but that's all they would be.But Being afraid of a woman barking like a dog ain't one (IMO).
A firearms team I would imagine will adhere to a Standard Operating Procedure.that way every one knows what there doing.Find out what the SOP would of been at the time of the murders and check if there are any anomalies in procedure. that's a better avenue to examine than SC doing dog impressions
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Exactly. "the truth is something prevented the firearms team"
I don't know what prevented them,I truly don't,I could make guesses but that's all they would be.But Being afraid of a woman barking like a dog ain't one (IMO).
A firearms team I would imagine will adhere to a Standard Operating Procedure.that way every one knows what there doing.Find out what the SOP would of been at the time of the murders and check if there are any anomalies in procedure. that's a better avenue to examine than SC doing dog impressions
Mimicking of the dog did not help matters, there were periods during that one hour of activity (between about 5:25am to 6:30am) that the firearms team did not know of the whereabouts of Sheila inside the farmhouse, due to the noises she was making (which got relayed through the 999 system in the control room to the firearms team at the scene). They didn't know if she was upstairs, or downstairs, simply because they did not know at that stage which telephone handset was off its cradle?
Police didn't know it was the telephone in the kitchen which had its handset off its cradle, until they got into the kitchen at about 7:30am...
But as soon as WPC Julia Jeapes took up her position in the role of containment and observation, and she spotted the rifle leaning up against the bedroom window at about 7:15am, police gambled on Sheila being upstairs in the bedroom, where they knew there should have been a telephone - which was why the raid team went in very quickly after the sighting made by Jeapes. Police thought Sheila was upstairs ion the bedroom, and as long as somebody kept sight of the gun at the window, and that is precisely what WPC Jeapes did, or as the case may be, what some other police officers did, using the scopes on their rifles...
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Mimicking of the dog did not help matters, there were periods during that one hour of activity (between about 5:25am to 6:30am) that the firearms team did not know of the whereabouts of Sheila inside the farmhouse, due to the noises she was making (which got relayed through the 999 system in the control room to the firearms team at the scene). They didn't know if she was upstairs, or downstairs, simply because they did not know at that stage which telephone handset was off its cradle?
Police didn't know it was the telephone in the kitchen which had its handset off its cradle, until they got into the kitchen at about 7:30am...
But as soon as WPC Julia Jeapes took up her position in the role of containment and observation, and she spotted the rifle leaning up against the bedroom window at about 7:15am, police gambled on Sheila being upstairs in the bedroom, where they knew there should have been a telephone - which was why the raid team went in very quickly after the sighting made by Jeapes. Police thought Sheila was upstairs ion the bedroom, and as long as somebody kept sight of the gun at the window, and that is precisely what WPC Jeapes did, or as the case may be, what some other police officers did, using the scopes on their rifles...
You've kind of answered your own question Mike. "But as soon as WPC Julia Jeapes took up her position in the role of containment and observation".That is her assigned task in the SOP at the WHF incident.Until she is in her assigned position to pass a qualified overview of events in her field of view then the ground controller would be unable to have an informed view of the entire site.Therefore I would doubt the firearms team would "storm" the building. This also however raises another question. If Jeapes reports "rifle in window" then it must be assumed that it was such. Also,for my info,was Jeapes's roll that day as a sniper?
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You've kind of answered your own question Mike. "But as soon as WPC Julia Jeapes took up her position in the role of containment and observation".That is her assigned task in the SOP at the WHF incident.Until she is in her assigned position to pass a qualified overview of events in her field of view then the ground controller would be unable to have an informed view of the entire site.Therefore I would doubt the firearms team would "storm" the building. This also however raises another question. If Jeapes reports "rifle in window" then it must be assumed that it was such. Also,for my info,was Jeapes's roll that day as a sniper?
Fact of the matter is, that within a very short time of WPC Jeapes reporting that she could see what appeared to be a rifle leaning up against the bedroom window, the raid team commenced its approach to enter the farmhouse. Other police officers who had been at the scene since 5am, were also in possession of weapons with scopes on, and they would almost certainly have zeroed in on any windows to see what could be seen, and if that rifle had been resting against that bedroom window from an earlier time, you can bet we would have heard about it?
In any event...
By the time the firearms team got upstairs into the bedroom, the rifle was apparently not resting against the same bedroom window, now who moved it in the interim period?
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Fact of the matter is, that within a very short time of WPC Jeapes reporting that she could see what appeared to be a rifle leaning up against the bedroom window, the raid team commenced its approach to enter the farmhouse. Other police officers who had been at the scene since 5am, were also in possession of weapons with scopes on, and they would almost certainly have zeroed in on any windows to see what could be seen, and if that rifle had been resting against that bedroom window from an earlier time, you can bet we would have heard about it?
In any event...
By the time the firearms team got upstairs into the bedroom, the rifle was apparently not resting against the same bedroom window, now who moved it in the interim period?
That Mike,is the "million dollar" question. If it can be PROVED that Jeapes saw a rifle, and then when the raid team entered it wasn't there, IMO it must be SC. But i emphasize PROVE. Jeapes could easily have been mistaken would surely then be the first line of defence,so to speak. Then you have the CCRC (?) stating the officers statements are more reliable than photos (?) QED Rifle must of been there. I don't know, the more you delve, the muddier the water seems to get.
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That Mike,is the "million dollar" question. If it can be PROVED that Jeapes saw a rifle, and then when the raid team entered it wasn't there, IMO it must be SC. But i emphasize PROVE. Jeapes could easily have been mistaken would surely then be the first line of defence,so to speak. Then you have the CCRC (?) stating the officers statements are more reliable than photos (?) QED Rifle must of been there. I don't know, the more you delve, the muddier the water seems to get.
WPC Julia Jeapes was a trained firearms instructor, who was using her scope on her rifle when she spotted what appeared to be a rifle leaning up against the bedroom window. I doubt very much that she was mistaken - what else was there in the bedroom window that she could have mistaken for a rifle leaning up against it?
Nothing in any of the crime scene photographs...
OK...
Lets substitute the rifle leaning against the bedroom window at the time WPC Jeapes made the crucial sighting, for something else, no mater what that something else might have been or could have been. What happened to that something that was leaning there against the bedroom window, which was not there by the time the raid team got into the bedroom, and later when PC Bird took his crime scene pictures?
Who moved it from the window, whatever it was?
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That Mike,is the "million dollar" question. If it can be PROVED that Jeapes saw a rifle, and then when the raid team entered it wasn't there, IMO it must be SC. But i emphasize PROVE. Jeapes could easily have been mistaken would surely then be the first line of defence,so to speak. Then you have the CCRC (?) stating the officers statements are more reliable than photos (?) QED Rifle must of been there. I don't know, the more you delve, the muddier the water seems to get.
There is a catch here and I have argued this many times. If Jeapes is mistaken, then what other long thin item did she spot propped up against the window, that could have been mistaken for a rifle? And where in the SOC photographic record, is the photograph of this other alternative long thin item propped up against the window?
Unless of course, Jeapes witnessed a trick of the light.
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According to Jeremys defence team,they now have a statement in their possesion from a Pc Brown (I think) who also states that he saw a rifle in the window.
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Could have been a broom I suppose!
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Could have been a broom I suppose!
Is there a broom in the SOC photos?
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Is there a broom in the SOC photos?
You are unable to see it Dave, cop were using it to sweep up the sugar that they spilt. ;)
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You are unable to see it Dave, cop were using it to sweep up the sugar that they spilt. ;)
That's what the CCRC's photographic expert said.
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That's what the CCRC's photographic expert said.
expert...pull the other one
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expert...pull the other one
Yeah i was just kidding Mertol.
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Yeah i was just kidding Mertol.
The police never clean up after them.
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The police never clean up after them.
They do if they cock up Grahame. :D
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There is a catch here and I have argued this many times. If Jeapes is mistaken, then what other long thin item did she spot propped up against the window, that could have been mistaken for a rifle? And where in the SOC photographic record, is the photograph of this other alternative long thin item propped up against the window?
Unless of course, Jeapes witnessed a trick of the light.
Same trick of light witnessed earlier by PS Bews and PC Myall?
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Same trick of light witnessed earlier by PS Bews and PC Myall?
Not forgetting the one which obscured Collins' vision... when he ID'd a female body though the window.
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Not forgetting the one which obscured Collins' vision... when he ID'd a female body though the window.
Does that same trick of light include the sight of only one wound upon Sheila's neck/throat by the police surgeon, Dr Craig, and police Inspector 'Bob' Miller, at 8:44am, when Sheila's death was confirmed, in the bedroom?
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Does tht same trick of light include the sight of only one wound upon Sheila's neck/throat by the police surgeon, Dr Craig, and police Inspector 'Bob' Miller, at 8:44am, when Sheila's death was confirmed?
Yes , it get's around ' the old trick of light ' !!
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Could have been a broom I suppose!
Only broom in SOC photographs was of one on the spiral stairs leading from the kitchen to the upstairs landing...
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Is there a broom in the SOC photos?
Here is a SOC photograph showing the broom on the spiral stairs:-
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Yes , it get's around ' the old trick of light ' !!
It does indeed, Jon, perhaps it should be known as the trick of the trick of the light?
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Here is a SOC photograph showing the broom on the spiral stairs:-
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Here is a SOC photograph showing the broom on the spiral stairs:-
Whats that at the bottom left of the stairs. Looks like a rifle.
Could it be Pargeters?
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According to David Boutflours witness statement, the .22 air rifle and a .410 shotgun were found in the sane place beneath a pile of or something similar, but all I can see or make out in this picture is the broom handle and the broom itself:-
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According to David Boutflours witness statement, the .22 air rifle and a .410 shotgun were found in the sane place beneath a pile of or something similar, but all I can see or make out in this picture is the broom handle and the broom itself:-
On the other hand there is something which could represent the barrel of a rifle which runs parallel with the broom handle...
Could be the barrel of the .22 air rifle...
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According to David Boutflours witness statement, the .22 air rifle and a .410 shotgun were found in the sane place beneath a pile of or something similar, but all I can see or make out in this picture is the broom handle and the broom itself:-
I thought the broom was hanging above your illustration!
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I thought the broom was hanging above your illustration!
You mean like a witches broom, and not a brush?
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According to David Boutflours witness statement, the .22 air rifle and a .410 shotgun were found in the sane place beneath a pile of or something similar, but all I can see or make out in this picture is the broom handle and the broom itself:-
Look again Mike, Bottom left is not a broom handle.
Yes broom above, but a rifle stock below, IMO.
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Look again Mike, Bottom left is not a broom handle.
Yes broom above, but a rifle stock below, IMO.
.410, or .22?
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Yes.
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Yes.
Could be the .410 that was broken down and found under the , by David Boutflour according to his witness statement, - if so police must have just left it there, and not bothered with it?
But - where is the .22 air rifle?