Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on December 13, 2011, 04:49:PM
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Police took a photograph of a footprint at the scene which was made by Sheila in the kitchen where police originally discovered her body, according to my informant...
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This photograph had to be suppressed as part of the cover up...
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This photograph had to besuppressed as part of the cover up...
Has your informant got a copy of this Mike?
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This photograph had to besuppressed as part of the cover up...
Has your informant got a copy of this Mike?
He has directed me to a certain document I may have in my possession that mentions the existence of the said photograph, which took me days to find, but I finally located it last night...
Why did police take this photograph and then withhold it?
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Bamber Enquiry Index
Box Number - 5
Sub index - BK
Property Description - PHOTOGRAPH of FOOTPRINT
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Bamber Enquiry Index
Box number - 37
Sub Index - I
Description of property - EXHIBIT LABELS AND PHOTOGRAPHS OF FOOTPRINTS
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How significant do you think it is though Mike? Yes it proves she was in the kitchen at some stage that night but does it prove she must have been in the kitchen when the police entered??
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How significant do you think it is though Mike? Yes it proves she was in the kitchen at some stage that night but does it prove she must have been in the kitchen when the police entered??
Informant told me that Sheila's footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood on kitchen floor, and that police were satisfied that Sheila shot and killed Ralph in the kitchen. he also told me that police took other similar photographs along the route which Sheila took when she regained consciousness and fled upstairs before she died in the main bedroom...
COLP had access to these pictures in 1991...
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I will post the full schedule of these exhibits and references (photographed footprints of Sheila) some time tomorrow...
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I will post the full schedule of these exhibits and references (photographed footprints of Sheila) some time tomorrow...
Is this the schedule Mike?
sch4 001.jpg
Sorry, unable to cut and paste. It is within reply no. 95 of "you should all know this?"
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(Z) - I see what you mean about the footprints, I found the schedule you spoke about...
This post ^^^^. Click the quote to take you to that post.
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Bloodstains on carpets...
well the stain is very likely to be impossible to remove if its had enough time to dry....
but if its wet then chances are the stain can be cleaned up ...leaving very little or no easily visible traces..
so if Sheila died about 3.00 am or before ..no chance of cleaning bloody footprints made by her on carpet..if any were on a piece of carpet.
however if she died about 8.00 am ish and people are on hand to take photographs quickly they can be taken and the carpet then cleaned as long as they dont mess about wasting time ..get it wet and scrub away...key is not to let the bloodstain dry out.
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next there be an exibit note for a missing VAX cleaner. talk about clutching at straw smiffy,beyond belief... ;D
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How significant do you think it is though Mike? Yes it proves she was in the kitchen at some stage that night but does it prove she must have been in the kitchen when the police entered??
Informant told me that Sheila's footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood on kitchen floor, and that police were satisfied that Sheila shot and killed Ralph in the kitchen. he also told me that police took other similar photographs along the route which Sheila took when she regained consciousness and fled upstairs before she died in the main bedroom...
COLP had access to these pictures in 1991...
So could the items placed on the floor to soak up the blood actually be covering the existence of footprints? Or were they elsewhere in the kitchen?
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How significant do you think it is though Mike? Yes it proves she was in the kitchen at some stage that night but does it prove she must have been in the kitchen when the police entered??
Informant told me that Sheila's footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood on kitchen floor, and that police were satisfied that Sheila shot and killed Ralph in the kitchen. he also told me that police took other similar photographs along the route which Sheila took when she regained consciousness and fled upstairs before she died in the main bedroom...
COLP had access to these pictures in 1991...
So could the items placed on the floor to soak up the blood actually be covering the existence of footprints? Or were they elsewhere in the kitchen?
At least two footprints belonging to Sheila were photographed in the vicinity of the coal bucket inside which Ralphs head ended up, and another two on the carpet in the downstairs office where the gun cupboard is situated, and further footprints along the route Sheila took leading to the bedroom where she was eventually shot and killed...
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How significant do you think it is though Mike? Yes it proves she was in the kitchen at some stage that night but does it prove she must have been in the kitchen when the police entered??
Informant told me that Sheila's footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood on kitchen floor, and that police were satisfied that Sheila shot and killed Ralph in the kitchen. he also told me that police took other similar photographs along the route which Sheila took when she regained consciousness and fled upstairs before she died in the main bedroom...
COLP had access to these pictures in 1991...
So could the items placed on the floor to soak up the blood actually be covering the existence of footprints? Or were they elsewhere in the kitchen?
I like your thinking... it may even be they desired to have blood pour out of Ralph to hide bloody footprints.
Other possible covers would be the odd newspapers and magazine scattered on the floor...and possibly sugar spread about after bloody prints were cleaned up to give the impression nothing had been cleaned up....ie the sugar deception the police were not happy to talk about.
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This photograph had to besuppressed as part of the cover up...
Has your informant got a copy of this Mike?
He has directed me to a certain document I may have in my possession that mentions the existence of the said photograph, which took me days to find, but I finally located it last night...
Why did police take this photograph and then withhold it?
I'm surmising that EP wouldn't need to conceal a photographic record of bloody footprints under the original 4/1 investigation. Not even as part of any initial concealment regarding the circs surrounding Sheila's death (as per theorised). Because Sheila would have had to have been downstairs at some point in that 4/1 scenario anyway. And it could be portrayed that this travel to/from downstairs occurred earlier than when the raid had commenced. Photos of such footprints would only need to be concealed once the case turned to 5 murders.
Mike, have the defence sanctioned or requested a block on any uploading of schedules which refer to footprints? Is that why you have typed the text up instead?
I wonder if the police left any footprints?
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This photograph had to besuppressed as part of the cover up...
Has your informant got a copy of this Mike?
He has directed me to a certain document I may have in my possession that mentions the existence of the said photograph, which took me days to find, but I finally located it last night...
Why did police take this photograph and then withhold it?
I'm surmising that EP wouldn't need to conceal a photographic record of bloody footprints under the original 4/1 investigation. Not even as part of any initial concealment regarding the circs surrounding Sheila's death (as per theorised). Because Sheila would have had to have been downstairs at some point in that 4/1 scenario anyway. And it could be portrayed that this travel to/from downstairs occurred earlier than when the raid had commenced. Photos of such footprints would only need to be concealed once the case turned to 5 murders.
Mike, have the defence sanctioned or requested a block on any uploading of schedules which refer to footprints? Is that why you have typed the text up instead?
I wonder if the police left any footprints?
here are the relevant police schedules:-
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And so...
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
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MIKE, Congrats on your contraversially cryptic cartoon! Is that a Vulture, or Red Kite on Plods phallic helMET?
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MIKE, Congrats on your contraversially cryptic cartoon! Is that a Vulture, or Red Kite on Plods phallic helMET?
I think you'll find it's a Lyle & Scott logo.
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I fear you are correct, David. Hartley, would you like to give your opinion on what Mike's trying to indicate - that the Sound Moderator evidence is a load of B......S!!
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
I noticed that but it was not the plural reference that stuck out, it was the number of potential photographs.
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
End cap for the rifle, yes...
Neither police nor relatives say where it was found, or by whom and when?
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
I noticed that but it was not the plural reference that stuck out, it was the number of potential photographs.
Are you aware that the lab carried out various experiments on 4 other (non-related) identical control sound moderators, to get an idea of how different blood would interact and mix and how far it might extend into the sound moderator.
The use of a plural is worth a look, but hardly much to go on.
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
I noticed that but it was not the plural reference that stuck out, it was the number of potential photographs.
Are you aware that the lab carried out various experiments on 4 other (non-related) identical control sound moderators, to get an idea of how different blood would interact and mix and how far it might extend into the sound moderator.
The use of a plural is worth a look, but hardly much to go on.
I have not heard of this before. Was evidence about this presented at the trial? I find the information that photographs were taken of silencers very interesting, because I do not believe these have been disclosed to the defence.
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There are numerous mentions in the COLP interviews in which it is clearly implied that 2 silencers were involved.
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
I noticed that but it was not the plural reference that stuck out, it was the number of potential photographs.
Are you aware that the lab carried out various experiments on 4 other (non-related) identical control sound moderators, to get an idea of how different blood would interact and mix and how far it might extend into the sound moderator.
The use of a plural is worth a look, but hardly much to go on.
I have not heard of this before. Was evidence about this presented at the trial? I find the information that photographs were taken of silencers very interesting, because I do not believe these have been disclosed to the defence.
Harters, there is often the possibility of an explanation that does not necessarily aid the defence. Do you know if there is any documented mention of these 'control' silencers?
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
I noticed that but it was not the plural reference that stuck out, it was the number of potential photographs.
Are you aware that the lab carried out various experiments on 4 other (non-related) identical control sound moderators, to get an idea of how different blood would interact and mix and how far it might extend into the sound moderator.
The use of a plural is worth a look, but hardly much to go on.
I have not heard of this before. Was evidence about this presented at the trial? I find the information that photographs were taken of silencers very interesting, because I do not believe these have been disclosed to the defence.
I don't know whether evidence was presented at trial or about photographs.
The bit about the 4 control silencers is below, but I don't know what the document extract is from.
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Well, that might be the content of the '6 albums'.
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Well, that might be the content of the '6 albums'.
Or it might not be. :-\
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Box 5 / BD Metal threaded ring
Would that be an end-cap for a rifle?
could well be.
what I also find interesting is "6X photo albums of silencers "
silencers in PLURAL..so they cover more than one silencer!
I noticed that but it was not the plural reference that stuck out, it was the number of potential photographs.
Are you aware that the lab carried out various experiments on 4 other (non-related) identical control sound moderators, to get an idea of how different blood would interact and mix and how far it might extend into the sound moderator.
The use of a plural is worth a look, but hardly much to go on.
2 things...
1/ If true then its shows by the use of "control" items the forensic labs knew the value of having control samples and that certain tests without control samples are basically useless. Thus their failure to report the testing of head and control samples in regards to the gunshot residue tests on Sheila and invalid and meaningless as no baseline from the control and background head swabs to work from.
2/ If true ....."different blood" element of Hartley's claim sounds rather wierd indeed and any such tests would undermine the prosecutions contentions.
If it required muzzle contact or near muzzle contact with the victim when fired to produce backspatter into the silencers it suggests the claims of Fletcher that the rifle was shot from more then 2 feet away in regards to wounds on June and Ralph are not sound. There would be no point in carrying out tests that were totally irrelevant. Thus the claims of Fletcher are undermined if they even thought of carrying out these tests.
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Look at the date on the second sheet
8/9/88.
clearly after trial.
the tests seem as mickey mouse as it can get and totally irrelevant ...dripping blood into silencers will not be representative at all of backspatter.
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Can I just say I haven't made any claims at all, I've been particularly candid with what I have posted.
Thank you.
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Informant told me that Sheila's footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood on kitchen floor, and that police were satisfied that Sheila shot and killed Ralph in the kitchen. he also told me that police took other similar photographs along the route which Sheila took when she regained consciousness and fled upstairs before she died in the main bedroom...
COLP had access to these pictures in 1991...
So could the items placed on the floor to soak up the blood actually be covering the existence of footprints? Or were they elsewhere in the kitchen?
Patti, this may be of interest to you, with regard to you thread entited "White towel and cushions, who put them there"
At least two footprints belonging to Sheila were photographed in the vicinity of the coal bucket inside which Ralphs head ended up, and another two on the carpet in the downstairs office where the gun cupboard is situated, and further footprints along the route Sheila took leading to the bedroom where she was eventually shot and killed...
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Apologies, I've posted my comment with an existing comment.
Patti, I hope you can decipher, I'm too tired to correct it.....!!
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Well, it certainly appears to be the case that there is a photograph of a footprint. I am prepared to assume that it is a photograph taken in the kitchen depicting a footprint in Ralph's blood. But, I am (at least currently) not prepared to assume or accept that the footprint was made by Sheila. Indeed, the photographs of Sheila on the bedroom floor do not show any blood at all on either of her feet. So, who cleaned the blood from Sheila's foot? Presumably Mike, you would say that EP cleaned the blood from Sheila's foot? This theory is quite ridiculous but I suppose that it is no more ridiculous than the theory that Sheila herself, having killed 4 persons, engaged in some form of ritual cleansing of her foot/feet.
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Well, it certainly appears to be the case that there is a photograph of a footprint. I am prepared to assume that it is a photograph taken in the kitchen depicting a footprint in Ralph's blood. But, I am (at least currently) not prepared to assume or accept that the footprint was made by Sheila. Indeed, the photographs of Sheila on the bedroom floor do not show any blood at all on either of her feet. So, who cleaned the blood from Sheila's foot? Presumably Mike, you would say that EP cleaned the blood from Sheila's foot? This theory is quite ridiculous but I suppose that it is no more ridiculous than the theory that Sheila herself, having killed 4 persons, engaged in some form of ritual cleansing of her foot/feet.
Why not consider the possibility that the footprint in Ralph's blood in the kitchen was made by his wife, June Bamber, why does the footprint have to have been made by Sheila, and no-one else?
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Because your first post says in express terms that your informant told you that SHEILA'S footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood !!!!
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Because your first post says in express terms that your informant told you that SHEILA'S footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood !!!!
Very good observation...
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Informant told me that Sheila's footprint was photographed in Ralph's blood on kitchen floor, and that police were satisfied that Sheila shot and killed Ralph in the kitchen. he also told me that police took other similar photographs along the route which Sheila took when she regained consciousness and fled upstairs before she died in the main bedroom...
COLP had access to these pictures in 1991...
So could the items placed on the floor to soak up the blood actually be covering the existence of footprints? Or were they elsewhere in the kitchen?
At least two footprints belonging to Sheila were photographed in the vicinity of the coal bucket inside which Ralphs head ended up, and another two on the carpet in the downstairs office where the gun cupboard is situated, and further footprints along the route Sheila took leading to the bedroom where she was eventually shot and killed...
Hi Mike, where did you get this information about the footprints from?