Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on January 22, 2011, 08:51:PM
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Death of DCI "Taff" Jones
Please click on image to enlarge...
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Mike , do you believe the police version of events over Taff's death ?
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Mike , do you believe the police version of events over Taff's death ?
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jon:- good question - my views on this matter, are not Jeremy's views, or the views of those representing him, or the views of any other moderator or member of admin at this, and other sites...
I suspect foul play in the death of DCI "Taff" Jones...
They say that he had an accident whilst at home doing some D.I.Y., but until I see evidence of this I feel instinctively that there could be something untoward linked to his death...
I do not have any evidence to back such a claim up, it's just a feeling I have, a bad feeling that his death was no accident, those are my views, not Jeremy's, not his legal team, not the owners of this site, or any other site - I just feel that the timing of his death was too convenient, considering that it was well known that he would have appeared at Jeremy's trial as a defense witness, not a prosecution one...
But for his untimely death, it is well known that "Taff" Jones, would have helped to prove that Jeremy did not, and could not have killed his sister, and he could not have stage managed her body, in the bedroom as alleged...
The simple truth of the matter, is that DCI "Taff" Jones, knew the reason for the attendance of men at the scene between 9am and 9:22am, and later between 10:35am and 11:35am - he knew that these persons moved and disturbed the body of Sheila in the bedroom. He knew the truth about Sheila having originally been found suspected as being dead in the region of the kitchen, downstairs, but that she had later regained consciousness, fled upstairs and been shot by use of the Bamber rifle, and died...
DCI "Taff" Jones, knew that Jeremy played no role at all, in Sheila's death...
DCI "Taff"Jones knew that the earlier part of the police operation, involving where Sheila's body had been discovered downstairs, and reported as a death, (suicide), inside whf had been covered up and swept under the carpet, with a view to protecting the good image of Essex police, and safe guarding the future of those police officers who were responsible for Sheila's death, upstairs in the bedroom...
DCI "Taff" Jones, was a threat to the police who were prepared to testify in favor of Sheila having originally being found upstairs in the bedroom, as opposed to downstairs in the region of the kitchen...
Bearing this in mind, his untimely death, was too convenient for it to have been an accident, and as I say, I find the circumstances of his death, as being suspicious...
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Have you ever spoken to his wife , or tried too ?
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Were there any witnesses to the accident that you know of, Mike?
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Carry2:- no further information has ever been forthcoming...
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Have you ever spoken to his wife , or tried too ?
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jon:- no, I have not, don't know if wife was present at time of alleged accident, or not...
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I have searched for newspaper report on his death and found nothing....He fell of step ladders and died of head injuries...he was 42???? :) :) :)
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I was always suspicious about this too,,,especially as he was also told/asked beforehand to " quit " the case.
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I think this is a interesting document as it states Taff to be a witness in the case it does not read Taff who was the investigating detective on the Bamber case.
It appears that Taff was going to give evidence for JB so it s not surprising to see that it did not change the direction of the case in fact removed a major roadblock to framing JB,the last in fact.
Taff was known as a fiery Welshman who had climbed to a high position in Essex Police, decorated many times, do you believe Tall would of stood by and let MA and SJ frame JB?
What do you think the effect on Taffs career would of been the Bamber case was the most public and biggest of Essex Police he was the offices who said he was innocent.
Imagine for one minute Taff exposing what was happening just look at all the Senior officers present at WHF on the morning all these officers would of been implicated in the cover up simply by their presence that morning.
Then ask yourself why the coroners report of what is supposed to of been a accident was not made available to JB defence team and has not been made available every time it has been requested since
I requested a copy and this was declined on the 26th June this Year, why not if he received a bump on the head and died in a accident why not let people see this?
I am now in the process of finding his family to establish if Taff "accident" has any witnesses, I will happy to believe it was a accident if lets say his wife was present or any of the 3 kids.
I am also trying to find out who sighed the paperwork? Who declared the accident a accident, I wonder if any names match to the ones who were at WHF on the morning
Not to forget Taff was the one who took home the SC/688/85 file and hid it in his loft and then had someone break in and steel it from him.
Quite happy to believe there is nothing suspicious in the death of Taff but I want to see proof.
I am also happy to believe JB is guilty but also like to see proof, and in 26 years I haven’t seen a scrap yet.
If you want to help in finding his family please get in touch.
Mark
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I wonder why "Taff " would choose to hide information in his loft.? Then die of an accident shortly after.?
Also,,,whoever stole the info must have known it was there,because it could have been anywhere in the house. Under a floorboard for instance.
Something happened at WHF that night and nobody is ever going to come forward."Taff " did everyone a favour by " covering their backs ".!
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I think this is a interesting document as it states Taff to be a witness in the case it does not read Taff who was the investigating detective on the Bamber case.
It appears that Taff was going to give evidence for JB so it s not surprising to see that it did not change the direction of the case in fact removed a major roadblock to framing JB,the last in fact.
Taff was known as a fiery Welshman who had climbed to a high position in Essex Police, decorated many times, do you believe Tall would of stood by and let MA and SJ frame JB?
What do you think the effect on Taffs career would of been the Bamber case was the most public and biggest of Essex Police he was the offices who said he was innocent.
Imagine for one minute Taff exposing what was happening just look at all the Senior officers present at WHF on the morning all these officers would of been implicated in the cover up simply by their presence that morning.
Then ask yourself why the coroners report of what is supposed to of been a accident was not made available to JB defence team and has not been made available every time it has been requested since
I requested a copy and this was declined on the 26th June this Year, why not if he received a bump on the head and died in a accident why not let people see this?
I am now in the process of finding his family to establish if Taff "accident" has any witnesses, I will happy to believe it was a accident if lets say his wife was present or any of the 3 kids.
I am also trying to find out who sighed the paperwork? Who declared the accident a accident, I wonder if any names match to the ones who were at WHF on the morning
Not to forget Taff was the one who took home the SC/688/85 file and hid it in his loft and then had someone break in and steel it from him.
Quite happy to believe there is nothing suspicious in the death of Taff but I want to see proof.
I am also happy to believe JB is guilty but also like to see proof, and in 26 years I haven’t seen a scrap yet.
If you want to help in finding his family please get in touch.
Mark
I do...PM me :) :)
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I wonder why "Taff " would choose to hide information in his loft.? Then die of an accident shortly after.?
Also,,,whoever stole the info must have known it was there,because it could have been anywhere in the house. Under a floorboard for instance.
Something happened at WHF that night and nobody is ever going to come forward."Taff " did everyone a favour by " covering their backs ".!
Hi Lookout his death is certainly bad timing. A fall from step ladders can cause injuries, but death? At first I thought he was using house ladders....till I read in Scott Lomax's book that they were only step ladders...
I find it remarkable that someone could have died from head injuries form a set of household ladders....One can only climb as high as the ceiling... :) :) :)
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I know of people who can arrange accidents. I strongly suspect, although I cannot prove it that Taff Jones' death was "accidental" ;) if you know what I mean?
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Hi Lookout his death is certainly bad timing. A fall from step ladders can cause injuries, but death? At first I thought he was using house ladders....till I read in Scott Lomax's book that they were only step ladders...
I find it remarkable that someone could have died from head injuries form a set of household ladders....One can only climb as high as the ceiling... :) :) :)
Hi Patti,,,I know that a blow on the back of the head can sometimes be fatal,,,but we don't know what injury he sustained,,and yes it was so badly timed as to arouse suspicion anyway,,,and whenever the true facts are withheld from something like this,you do tend to think the worst.
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Moral: If you are a prime witness in an up and coming murder trial. Stay off ladders. ;)
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Moral: If you are a prime witness in an up and coming murder trial. Stay off ladders. ;)
Yes,Grahame,,,stay in bed and cook your own food.
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I think this sort of speculation is exactly why the coroners report is being withheld. It would be very distressing for Taff Jones family to have to deal with his death being portrayed as some part of the great conspiracy theory against Jeremy Bamber. I think it's been said that the report is held under PII, and if so, the CCRC have access to it.
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I think this sort of speculation is exactly why the coroners report is being withheld. It would be very distressing for Taff Jones family to have to deal with his death being portrayed as some part of the great conspiracy theory against Jeremy Bamber. I think it's been said that the report is held under PII, and if so, the CCRC have access to it.
The CCRC allegedly having access to PII material in this case doesn't exactly fill anyone with a sense of relief or confidence in the system. I think you make a fair point about the distressing of his family. Nevertheless, if an alternative truth really is hidden in this affair, I cannot see how anyone family or otherwise, is being best served by its' continued concealment.
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The CCRC allegedly having access to PII material in this case doesn't exactly fill anyone with a sense of relief or confidence in the system. I think you make a fair point about the distressing of his family. Nevertheless, if an alternative truth really is hidden in this affair, I cannot see how anyone family or otherwise, is being best served by its' continued concealment.
I agree, but if the CCRC are given enough reason to look at the report they will do so, but they won't necessarily tell the defence that they have done so.
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I agree, but if the CCRC are given enough reason to look at the report they will do so, but they won't necessarily tell the defence that they have done so.
My impression of them is that they are overworked, under-resourced, not free from politicised interference, not strong enough to facilitate the confrontation of corruption and that many of the people who carry out the case work are not legal professionals?
I could be wrong.
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My impression of them is that they are overworked, under-resourced, not free from politicised interference, not strong enough to facilitate the confrontation of corruption and that many of the people who carry out the case work are not legal professionals?
I could be wrong.
Much of that is probably true, but when it comes to 'confrontation of corruption', you are basing that on the fact that they've found none. That could be because there is none to find.
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Much of that is probably true, but when it comes to 'confrontation of corruption', you are basing that on the fact that they've found none. That could be because there is none to find.
I think it's more likely that it's unpalatable (or that classic line - beyond its' remit) to be seen to undermine the integrity of systems we have.
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I think it's more likely that it's unpalatable (or that classic line - beyond its' remit) to be seen to undermine the integrity of systems we have.
Well it's certainly not their job, but I do think that if it emerged that a wrongful conviction was based on corruption and there was evidence to support that, they would refer it to the CoA, and then stand back and watch the sh*t hit the fan.
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Well it's certainly not their job, but I do think that if it emerged that a wrongful conviction was based on corruption and there was evidence to support that, they would refer it to the CoA, and then stand back and watch the sh*t hit the fan.
Here's hoping. I'd get them a pint if that took place in this case.
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I think this sort of speculation is exactly why the coroners report is being withheld. It would be very distressing for Taff Jones family to have to deal with his death being portrayed as some part of the great conspiracy theory against Jeremy Bamber. I think it's been said that the report is held under PII, and if so, the CCRC have access to it.
Thats comforting to know :(
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Hi Patti
I think it was just a tragic accident. Perhaps Taff Jones was so disturbed by the case/change of events that his mind wasn't on what he was doing and he slipped and fell. Here's a similar case:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/dec/27/topstories3.mainsection
I seem to remember also, that he was inside his house painting the hallway when this happened. I don't know how reliable that is (could have been a newspaper story) but if true, it would make it a lot more difficult for someone to just happen along and shove him off.
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I seem to remember also, that he was inside his house painting the hallway when this happened. I don't know how reliable that is (could have been a newspaper story) but if true, it would make it a lot more difficult for someone to just happen along and shove him off.
I thought he was painting the gable of his house. I can't remember where I got that from now though.
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I'm sure that DCI Jones's wife could clear up a lot of this. Where was she at the time of the accident?
Did she know about what was hidden in the attic , why it was hidden in the attic?
Has she been silenced...
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I'm sure that DCI Jones's wife could clear up a lot of this. Where was she at the time of the accident?
Did she know about what was hidden in the attic , why it was hidden in the attic?
Has she been silenced...
Hi haughton,,,yes,this is a question I'd put yesterday. I'm sure that any officer is,or already would have been informed and prepared for any eventuallity either within the force itself or otherwise,,simply because they are in the force and so they're in the public eye more so,along with the nature of their job,,,and to " hide " material such as could possibly have saved 26/7 years of a subject,I find unethical as well as really and truthfully " against the law ".
My suspicions were raised simply because he was the one who was adamant that Jeremy wasn't involved.
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It's ironic to think that before my brother retired,,he " worked for the government ",,and if he'd been involved in any sort of an " accident ",,there was a letter on his person requesting his briefcase be taken to the nearest police station.! Goodness me.
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A small article in 'The Law' May '86. (page 1)
(https://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgtmhe97i31LEzlnZCwNt_vx_uM_kWn3gi0c6LzE7uQPPlRXUKMY6XP06-ig9lfNXsOhe8AjY9bkZLTip9-suImgOklLVxzpFUCUs9uprqS8K2quf2WJ5ihDdlYdhG8yz5Xi6K4&q=cache%3Agsb5CoQIM-oJ%3Awww.essex.police.uk%2Fmuseum%2Fthelaw%2Fn_8605lw.pdf%20taff%20jones%20fell%20from%20ladder&docid=c666259ed71722f8319695f971fdd190&a=bi&pagenumber=1&w=783)
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The CCRC allegedly having access to PII material in this case doesn't exactly fill anyone with a sense of relief or confidence in the system. I think you make a fair point about the distressing of his family. Nevertheless, if an alternative truth really is hidden in this affair, I cannot see how anyone family or otherwise, is being best served by its' continued concealment.
Roch, what you say regarding the possible concealment of alternative truth can't be argued with, but from the family's perspective, what remains hidden, after all this time, is not at the forefront of their thoughts. Exposing that possible alternative would mean exposing the family, second time around, to their father/husband's involvement and thoughts regarding the Bamber tragedy, and subsequently, his own tragic death, and whilst, for his sake, they may wish for, whatever truth may be hidden, to be revealed. For them, the truth may be too uncomfortable to cope with.
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Why was Taff taken off the case?
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Why was Taff taken off the case?
i dont know it as fact but witholding evidence? he kept one of the silencers and used it as a paperwieght didnt he? ;D
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i dont know it as fact but witholding evidence? he kept one of the silencers and used it as a paperwieght didnt he? ;D
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Re: Suspicious death of DCI Jones - motives for murder?
« Reply #117 on: January 28, 2012, 12:46:PM »
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Quote from: tonyb on January 28, 2012, 12:40:PM
You sure this isn't a Press Confrence photo Mike
Looks like a camera lens in the top left corner?
Well, fact of the matter is, Ewen Smiths informant told him in 2003 that PC Whiddon had gione a,long to the desk of DCI 'Taff' Jones, and took possession of a silencer which 'Taff' had been keeping and using as a paper weight and that Whiddon took it along to the force armoury to see if it fitted the guns barrel,and when he carried that exercise out and he found that it did fit, the silencer in question along with the rifle were sent off to the lab' on 20th September 1985...
Now, you only have to use a little bit of common sense, and you must surely realize that Whiddon did screw the rifle onto the barrel of the gun at that time, on that occasion, and that this action could have been the source from which a small flek of Sheila's blood got into the silencer. Whiddon has not yet denied that he did it..
like i said.... keeping a key piece of evidence,unreal.
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Thanks for that Tony.
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Thanks for that Tony.
It just gets worse.
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It just gets worse.
Strange them counting it as a key piece of evidence yet they already had their key bit of evidence in the other silencer.
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Thanks for that Tony.
i must stress i do not know why taff was removed from the case but as he was holding a key exhibit on his desk and using it as a paperweight. this would destroy the integrity of the silencer in question and compromised the investigation i would of thought.
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hello Lookout, That DCI Jones's wife was insisting that Jeremy was innocent must mean that she had read Taffs notes! Question is ; why has she not disclosed this evidence, thus leaving a man to rot in prison who she knows to be not guilty!. I suspect intimidation with menaces
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Roch, what you say regarding the possible concealment of alternative truth can't be argued with, but from the family's perspective, what remains hidden, after all this time, is not at the forefront of their thoughts. Exposing that possible alternative would mean exposing the family, second time around, to their father/husband's involvement and thoughts regarding the Bamber tragedy, and subsequently, his own tragic death, and whilst, for his sake, they may wish for, whatever truth may be hidden, to be revealed. For them, the truth may be too uncomfortable to cope with.
That is a fair point April.
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hello Lookout, That DCI Jones's wife was insisting that Jeremy was innocent must mean that she had read Taffs notes! Question is ; why has she not disclosed this evidence, thus leaving a man to rot in prison who she knows to be not guilty!. I suspect intimidation with menaces
How do we know that this was the case? Also, perhaps it is natural for a spouse to back their loved one under pressure. Just a thought.
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How do we know that this was the case? Also, perhaps it is natural for a spouse to back their loved one under pressure. Just a thought.
Hi Roch,,,whether under pressure or not,,it's not the done thing to keep information that could be used at a later date..particularly if it meant someones' freedom. It must have been important enough to have hidden it in the loft. You can bet your life if it had been against Jeremy,,it would have been available for all to see.
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Hi Roch,,,whether under pressure or not,,it's not the done thing to keep information that could be used at a later date..particularly if it meant someones' freedom. It must have been important enough to have hidden it in the loft. You can bet your life if it had been against Jeremy,,it would have been available for all to see.
Hi Lookout. I meant, maybe the reason why she backed him on Bamber was out of loyalty rather than any notion of Bamber actually being innocent. Then again, it is possible he confided in her. So she may indeed have obtained an awareness of the relevant issues.
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hello Lookout, That DCI Jones's wife was insisting that Jeremy was innocent must mean that she had read Taffs notes! Question is ; why has she not disclosed this evidence, thus leaving a man to rot in prison who she knows to be not guilty!. I suspect intimidation with menaces
Hello Haughton. It may be exactly as you suggest. On the other hand, I doubt very much that Jeremy's innicence/guilt was uppermost in her thoughts after losing her husband , at such a young age, in so sudden and dramatic way. For the next few years she may have done no more than go through the motions of living. She may have needed medication. She may have need therapy, and by the time she came out the other end she may have felt it was too late to say anything............or had been persuaded not to.
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Now the dark secret and the reason why Jeremy will not win his appeal.
Bambergate is not about Jeremy Bamber at all.
The truth is, when ACC Simpson decided to cave in to the pressure from the family and redirect the case and frame Jeremy for the murders, he set two people on a collision course that even he did not see the outcome coming.
Taff Jones was a very experienced and skilled detective and the assistant head of Essex CID. The Bamber case was the biggest of his career, very public and he worked on the case for just about 5 weeks.
When removed from the case it blackened his career and I understand he was very much against framing a young man who had just lost all his family.
By the time he made his position was clear to his colleges, they had gone too far in fabricating a case against Jeremy, who by then was on remand for murder with the press following every move.
I understand one officer acted alone to try and bring Taff to their thinking, which did not work out.
I think ACC Simpson was informed on the same day as to what had happened by this officer, giving him a choice to instantly arrest him which would have led to his own arrest and that of many of the senior Essex Police officers.
If you want to know who then study the COLP interviews carefully.
Many of the officers do not know this but some of them have worked it out, and it creates a very interesting relationship between these former officers who covered up their mistake in the farmhouse, under the instruction of ACC Simpson and Essex Police today...
They are not going to be made scapegoats.
Ask yourself who decided Taff Jones died in a accident and follow your nose.
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The police and the relatives framed Jeremy for the murders, with the help of the state, and the only police officer prepared to stand up against the other conspirators (DCI "Taff" Jones) died in suspicious circumstances. So suspicious were the circumstances of his death (which occurred shortly after he made a report about the shootings involving the alleged silencer) that the inquest notes are currently withheld under pii...
Senior officer who took over the case once "Taff" had been removed, later went to work for the relatives as a security advisor at the family run Osea Road, Camp Site...
Its a small world isn't it?
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we are told that DCI Jones statement was hidden in the attic, later to be stolen in a burglary.
Question is; How would the burgler know that it was in the attic?
How would he find time to find a pair of steps to access the attic?
It points to one thing; Mrs Jones herself disposed of this statement and there was no burglary at all
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The police and the relatives framed Jeremy for the murders, with the help of the state, and the only police officer prepared to stand up against the other conspirators (DCI "Taff" Jones) died in suspicious circumstances. So suspicious were the circumstances of his death (which occurred shortly after he made a report about the shootings involving the alleged silencer) that the inquest notes are currently withheld under pii...
Senior officer who took over the case once "Taff" had been removed, later went to work for the relatives as a security advisor at the family run Osea Road, Camp Site...
Its a small world isn't it?
If this is true, then that is in my opinion shocking. Such an arrangement is not only innapropriate, it would also further feed suspicion regarding the whole relationship between relatives and some police officers.
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If this is true, then that is in my opinion shocking. Such an arrangement is not only innapropriate, it would also further feed suspicion regarding the whole relationship between relatives and some police officers.
I think it's easy to see how this sort of arrangement would have come about. If the former officer involved in the case, felt he had done nothing wrong during the investigation, he would not have considered that taking this position would, in any way be inappropriate.
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I think it's easy to see how this sort of arrangement would have come about. If the former officer involved in the case, felt he had done nothing wrong during the investigation, he would not have considered that taking this position would, in any way be inappropriate.
We need to know how and when Ainsley first became involved in any capacity.
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We need to know how and when Ainsley first became involved in any capacity.
Yes, I absolutely agree. As long as he wasn't on the payroll before the trial, I don't see that there is a sustainable argument. It does seem that it's yet another issue that muddies the waters, but these sort of things do happen.
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Yes, I absolutely agree. As long as he wasn't on the payroll before the trial, I don't see that there is a sustainable argument. It does seem that it's yet another issue that muddies the waters, but these sort of things do happen.
I'm afraid I have to take a somewhat more cynical approach to this Neil.
Somebody needs to set up a horizontal time-line of the case. I have briefly looked at this but I think you need to download software to do it.
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I'm afraid I have to take a somewhat more cynical approach to this Neil.
Somebody needs to set up a horizontal time-line of the case. I have briefly looked at this but I think you need to download software to do it.
I thought you might!
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Hi,does anybody have a photo of Taff Jones. I had just turned a teenager when this tradegy happened and spent the whole summer cycling around with my friends being an utter nuisance to the police...we knew the land better than them..so would find holes to watch.. however, I cant remember what Taff looked like...… and if you google him, you get stan jones.
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Hi,does anybody have a photo of Taff Jones. I had just turned a teenager when this tradegy happened and spent the whole summer cycling around with my friends being an utter nuisance to the police...we knew the land better than them..so would find holes to watch.. however, I cant remember what Taff looked like...… and if you google him, you get stan jones.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsrf=ALeKk039UTQ5VE-E776yGIkHYbNucEtSqg:1583339838691&q=dci+thomas+taff+jones+photo&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjt9pLFoIHoAhVHQRUIHaQ6Bn4Q420oCnoECAEQIg&biw=1627&bih=771#imgrc=IE4NRmiLlm_S7M