Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: grahameb on September 16, 2011, 06:34:PM
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Former Lord Chief Justice Denning said:
"It is better an innocent man serves a life sentence than the law is seen to be making grave errors."
Was he right?
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Former Lord Chief Justice Denning said:
"It is better an innocent man serves a life sentence than the law is seen to be making grave errors."
Was he right?
In my world, the complete opposite is true, If the law is seen to be making grave errors, then somebody can step in and adress what is causing the errors. It's just a form of holding a mirror up to British society. Denning's comments belong to the 1780's not the 1980's. In fact, even in the 1780's there would have been 'free thinkers' capable of shooting holes Denning's views. I find his views ghastly and backward.
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Former Lord Chief Justice Denning said:
"It is better an innocent man serves a life sentence than the law is seen to be making grave errors."
Was he right?
It makes my blood boil everytime I read this 'quotation' >:(
Would he liked to have been banged up for something he didn't do? No doubt he thought he was above the law. Horrible man.
On a facetious note, perhaps it should be nailed up outside every courthouse just as a warning to those who believe they will get a fair trial.
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Would he liked to have been banged up for something he didn't do?
"Don't drop the soap Denning"
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Better That Ten Guilty Men…
Alexander Volokh
in BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT (Larry King ed., 2006)
“Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer,” said
English jurist William Blackstone. The ratio 10:1, now known as the “Blackstone
ratio,” expresses the classic Anglo-American ideas of the presumption of
innocence and (insofar as the statement speaks of “guilt,” “conviction,”
“imprisonment,” and the like) the burden of proof “beyond a reasonable doubt”
that prevails in criminal law. This should be the approach of every civilized country !!
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Just a very tenous link here, but on reading about Lord Denning on Wikipedia it says his wedding was officiated by Cecil Henry BOUTFLOWER!
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No i do not think he was right at all, ive always believed the truth is your sword by your side in battle
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Unfortunately Lord Denning put the Law before Justice. The court where he sat for some years of his life has the statue representing justice above its dome. The statue stands holding a sword in one hand and scales in the other The sword represents judgment. The scales represent equity withing that judgment. But the most interesting symbol of this statue is the blindfold. Wikipedia says, "The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality."
It appears that Lord Denning was not fit to represent the laws of England. For with sentiments like his how can he ever make a just judgment?
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Former Lord Chief Justice Denning said:
"It is better an innocent man serves a life sentence than the law is seen to be making grave errors."
Was he right?
NO, he was very wrong to have made a comment like this. He speaks of one man but there are many innocent men and women serving life sentences but yet the law continues to make grave errors. These errors send innocent people to prison and allow the real killers to remain at liberty, free to kill again, where is the justice in that?
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Grahame, have you ever heard of Blackstones Formulation?
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Grahame, have you ever heard of Blackstones Formulation?
Yes it's the precise opposite of Lord Dennings view.
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How do we know Lord Denning really said this? Was he quoted in a book, a television programme, or what?
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How do we know Lord Denning really said this? Was he quoted in a book, a television programme, or what?
You are right. What he actually said was It is better that some innocent men remain in jail than that the integrity of the English judicial system be impugned
He said this when the appeals of the Birmingham six were being discussed. He also said that if they had been hanged then people would have forgotten them and society would have been satisfied.
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How do we know Lord Denning really said this? Was he quoted in a book, a television programme, or what?
What he actually said was this:
"It is better that some innocent men remain in jail than that the integrity of the English judicial system be impugned."
He said this in 1988 in regard to the Birmingham Six.
The full quote is this:
"Hanging ought to be retained for murder most foul. We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten, and the whole community would be satisfied... It is better that some innocent men remain in jail than that the integrity of the English judicial system be impugned.
Source Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Denning,_Baron_Denning
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Unfortunately Lord Denning put the Law before Justice. The court where he sat for some years of his life has the statue representing justice above its dome. The statue stands holding a sword in one hand and scales in the other The sword represents judgment. The scales represent equity withing that judgment. But the most interesting symbol of this statue is the blindfold. Wikipedia says, "The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality."It appears that Lord Denning was not fit to represent the laws of England. For with sentiments like his how can he ever make a just judgment?
Perhaps that is the reason that the statue was made without a blindfold. Most people think it has one, but feel free to look at any photo of the statue above the Central Criminal Courts (Old Bailey). No blindfold. Maybe we should not expect Objectivity or Impartiality.
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Unfortunately Lord Denning put the Law before Justice. The court where he sat for some years of his life has the statue representing justice above its dome. The statue stands holding a sword in one hand and scales in the other The sword represents judgment. The scales represent equity withing that judgment. But the most interesting symbol of this statue is the blindfold. Wikipedia says, "The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality."It appears that Lord Denning was not fit to represent the laws of England. For with sentiments like his how can he ever make a just judgment?
Perhaps that is the reason that the statue was made without a blindfold. Most people think it has one, but feel free to look at any photo of the statue above the Central Criminal Courts (Old Bailey). No blindfold. Maybe we should not expect Objectivity or Impartiality.
You're right. There appears to not be one. Have you got a closeup of the statue? It's a bit difficult to see on the small photos. There should be one because everywhere else where justice is depicted there is one.
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Unfortunately Lord Denning put the Law before Justice. The court where he sat for some years of his life has the statue representing justice above its dome. The statue stands holding a sword in one hand and scales in the other The sword represents judgment. The scales represent equity withing that judgment. But the most interesting symbol of this statue is the blindfold. Wikipedia says, "The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality."It appears that Lord Denning was not fit to represent the laws of England. For with sentiments like his how can he ever make a just judgment?
Perhaps that is the reason that the statue was made without a blindfold. Most people think it has one, but feel free to look at any photo of the statue above the Central Criminal Courts (Old Bailey). No blindfold. Maybe we should not expect Objectivity or Impartiality.
You're right. There appears to not be one. Have you got a closeup of the statue? It's a bit difficult to see on the small photos. There should be one because everywhere else where justice is depicted there is one.
The following article is nothing to do with JB, but gives a really good image of the statue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341500/Call-probation-staff-given-power-cut-offenders-sentences.html
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Unfortunately Lord Denning put the Law before Justice. The court where he sat for some years of his life has the statue representing justice above its dome. The statue stands holding a sword in one hand and scales in the other The sword represents judgment. The scales represent equity withing that judgment. But the most interesting symbol of this statue is the blindfold. Wikipedia says, "The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality."It appears that Lord Denning was not fit to represent the laws of England. For with sentiments like his how can he ever make a just judgment?
Perhaps that is the reason that the statue was made without a blindfold. Most people think it has one, but feel free to look at any photo of the statue above the Central Criminal Courts (Old Bailey). No blindfold. Maybe we should not expect Objectivity or Impartiality.
You're right. There appears to not be one. Have you got a closeup of the statue? It's a bit difficult to see on the small photos. There should be one because everywhere else where justice is depicted there is one.
The following article is nothing to do with JB, but gives a really good image of the statue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341500/Call-probation-staff-given-power-cut-offenders-sentences.html
Yes thats about the size I can get but it isn't really that clear. As I said it doesn't look as if there is a blindfold? If has one then it isn't that obvious. Perhaps that is why we don't see British justice that often? ::)
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Unfortunately Lord Denning put the Law before Justice. The court where he sat for some years of his life has the statue representing justice above its dome. The statue stands holding a sword in one hand and scales in the other The sword represents judgment. The scales represent equity withing that judgment. But the most interesting symbol of this statue is the blindfold. Wikipedia says, "The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality."It appears that Lord Denning was not fit to represent the laws of England. For with sentiments like his how can he ever make a just judgment?
Perhaps that is the reason that the statue was made without a blindfold. Most people think it has one, but feel free to look at any photo of the statue above the Central Criminal Courts (Old Bailey). No blindfold. Maybe we should not expect Objectivity or Impartiality.
You're right. There appears to not be one. Have you got a closeup of the statue? It's a bit difficult to see on the small photos. There should be one because everywhere else where justice is depicted there is one.
The following article is nothing to do with JB, but gives a really good image of the statue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341500/Call-probation-staff-given-power-cut-offenders-sentences.html
Yes thats about the size I can get but it isn't really that clear. As I said it doesn't look as if there is a blindfold? If has one then it isn't that obvious. Perhaps that is why we don't see British justice that often? ::)
There is a blindfold. It is not clear on the photograph.
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Unfortunately Lord Denning put the Law before Justice. The court where he sat for some years of his life has the statue representing justice above its dome. The statue stands holding a sword in one hand and scales in the other The sword represents judgment. The scales represent equity withing that judgment. But the most interesting symbol of this statue is the blindfold. Wikipedia says, "The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality."It appears that Lord Denning was not fit to represent the laws of England. For with sentiments like his how can he ever make a just judgment?
Perhaps that is the reason that the statue was made without a blindfold. Most people think it has one, but feel free to look at any photo of the statue above the Central Criminal Courts (Old Bailey). No blindfold. Maybe we should not expect Objectivity or Impartiality.
You're right. There appears to not be one. Have you got a closeup of the statue? It's a bit difficult to see on the small photos. There should be one because everywhere else where justice is depicted there is one.
The following article is nothing to do with JB, but gives a really good image of the statue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341500/Call-probation-staff-given-power-cut-offenders-sentences.html
Yes thats about the size I can get but it isn't really that clear. As I said it doesn't look as if there is a blindfold? If has one then it isn't that obvious. Perhaps that is why we don't see British justice that often? ::)
There is a blindfold. It is not clear on the photograph.
Perhaps she lifted it whilst no one was looking.
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
I stand corrected, apologies. It shows how you sometimes see what you expect to see.
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
I stand corrected, apologies. It shows how you sometimes see what you expect to see.
Yes she took it of in the night. ;) Clearly some of them have blindfolds and others do not? Have you just discovered that Bitish Law is not just after all? Something I've said for years.
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
I stand corrected, apologies. It shows how you sometimes see what you expect to see.
The blindfold is mentioned in the wihipedia link given above.
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
I stand corrected, apologies. It shows how you sometimes see what you expect to see.
The blindfold is mentioned in the wihipedia link given above.
Yes I know. That's why I took it as gospel. But apparently Wikipedia is wrong?
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
You are correct. The first link was Lady Justice at the Old Bailey.
On the dome above the court stands a bronze statue of Lady Justice, executed by British sculptor F. W. Pomeroy. She holds a sword in her right hand and the scales of justice in her left. The statue is popularly supposed to show blind Justice; however, the figure is not blindfolded: the courthouse brochures explain that this is because Lady Justice was originally not blindfolded, and because her “maidenly form” is supposed to guarantee her impartiality which renders the blindfold redundant.[3]
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
You are correct. The first link was Lady Justice at the Old Bailey.
On the dome above the court stands a bronze statue of Lady Justice, executed by British sculptor F. W. Pomeroy. She holds a sword in her right hand and the scales of justice in her left. The statue is popularly supposed to show blind Justice; however, the figure is not blindfolded: the courthouse brochures explain that this is because Lady Justice was originally not blindfolded, and because her “maidenly form” is supposed to guarantee her impartiality which renders the blindfold redundant.[3]
And so the legal bods reason. The trouble is that it completely ignores the faults within human nature. Which cannot avoid being biased. Therefore the blindfold is an essential piece of equipment to my mind.
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
I stand corrected, apologies. It shows how you sometimes see what you expect to see.
NGB , if you don't mind me asking , what would you do with the CCRC to make it a better body at fighting MOJ ?
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There is definitely no blindfold. You can magnify the picture I posted earlier by up to 400% on your browser, and the eyes are clear. However, just to confirm (one link out of many)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
I stand corrected, apologies. It shows how you sometimes see what you expect to see.
NGB , if you don't mind me asking , what would you do with the CCRC to make it a better body at fighting MOJ ?
It is a difficult question to answer. The idea behind the CCRC was very good and it was given extensive powers to obtain evidence (including evidence withheld under PII) and to carry out its own independent investigations. In theory the new set up appeared to be a significant improvement on the old system of having to persuade the Home Secretary to refer a case back to the Court of Appeal. In practice the CCRC has proved to be incredibly slow. It has also seemed reluctant to use to the full its powers to obtain evidence and appears to be very cautious in its approach to cases.
As far as a solution to the problem is concerned in my experience it is always difficult to improve something once it has gone off course. Additional resources would enable cases to be processed more quickly but would not change the attitude of the CCRC towards cases. A complete overhaul at the top would be a good start, with most of the current Commissioners being replaced. A new Chief Executive could be appointed, with a remit to transform the CCRC into a body which does what it was established to do.
I think that there is one simple change which would assist with some miscarriages of justice. I believe that someone convicted should have the power to make an appeal against conviction to the Court of Appeal without having first to persuade the CCRC to refer the case. At present a defendant has the right to appeal immediately following the trial, but does not have a further right of appeal unless the case is referred by the CCRC.
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Cheer's NGB !!
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Former Lord Chief Justice Denning said: . . .
He was never Lord Chief Justice. He was Lord Justice Denning.
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He was never Lord Chief Justice. He was Lord Justice Denning.
Well am I glad that I never said that? ::)
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Well am I glad that I never said that? ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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He was never Lord Chief Justice. He was Lord Justice Denning.
He was Master of the Rolls.
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He was never Lord Chief Justice. He was Lord Justice Denning.
He was Lord Denning M.R.
(Master of the Rolls)
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Royce or cheese.?
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He was Lord Denning M.R.
(Master of the Rolls)
I'll have to tell my son that. He thinks he is master of the rolls. Until I told him not to be so greedy. ::)
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Royce or cheese.?
haha we both thought the same thing. ;D
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haha we both thought the same thing. ;D
A man after my own heart,Lugg ;D
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Royce or cheese.?
;D ;D
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A schoolmate of mine got a lift to school in a Rolls Royce when there was a bus strike, which made me rather jealous.
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A schoolmate of mine got a lift to school in a Rolls Royce when there was a bus strike, which made me rather jealous.
The nearest to a Rolls Royce I've travelled in, was my late pa-in-laws Austin Princess.Fabulous car.
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The nearest to a Rolls Royce I've travelled in, was my late pa-in-laws Austin Princess.Fabulous car.
If it was the old type princess then they did have Roll Royce engines in them.
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If it was the old type princess then they did have Roll Royce engines in them.
It was the old type princess,Lugg.A fabulous big car. Didn't know it had a RR engine though. You could hardly feel you were moving. I know he liked big cars,as he had a Pontiac too.
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Morning lookout how are you today. I have been in a Rolls many times a friend of ours had one think it was a Silver Cloud not into cars really. Also been in a Reliant Robin many times pushed in a heap in the back. Those were the days :) :) :) or should I say dates :)
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Morning lookout how are you today. I have been in a Rolls many times a friend of ours had one think it was a Silver Cloud not into cars really. Also been in a Reliant Robin many times pushed in a heap in the back. Those were the days :) :) :) or should I say dates :)
Morning Susan. The chap next door had an old Rolls in his garage.He used to be Lord Mayor,so he may have bought it back in the 70's.
Sister-in-law had a Humber Super Snipe,another lovely car with a fabulous walnut dashboard and leather interior. Todays cars are not a patch on the older models which were built like tanks. My old dad had a Lanchester. Yes,happy days. No wonder I now won't accept second-best,hahahaha. I tend to live in the past a lot and wish things were as they were. Stuck in a time-warp I think.
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Lookout, Was the Lanchester to which you refer, the motor with a fluid flywheel?
One of our cars was a 1920's bull-nosed Morris Cowley, bought by Grandfather. One had to climb over the sides to access the rear seat, i.e. no doors.
Did not have it long as too juicy. It was exchanged for a small Austin van.
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Lookout, Was the Lanchester to which you refer, the motor with a fluid flywheel?
One of our cars was a 1920's bull-nosed Morris Cowley, bought by Grandfather. One had to climb over the sides to access the rear seat, i.e. no doors.
Did not have it long as too juicy. It was exchanged for a small Austin van.
Oh gosh,campion,I don't know about a fluid flywheel,but it was a " posh'un ". I remember it in the mid 40's,also a Standard Vanguard.
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Lookout, T he Standard Vanguard was also a juicey motor. Hovis was 6d a loaf. Although petrol was about 3/6 per gall, the blackmarket fuel coupons were exhorbitant.
The ubiquitous Spivs were in their element.
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Lookout, T he Standard Vanguard was also a juicey motor. Hovis was 6d a loaf. Although petrol was about 3/6 per gall, the blackmarket fuel coupons were exhorbitant.
The ubiquitous Spivs were in their element.
Campion - surely the classic 'spiv'? ...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D1lq_4SPnxM/TJpy5R-Yg0I/AAAAAAAAARk/ZZfErufkc4I/s1600/spiv.jpg)
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Hi Roch love the shoes better than clogs :) :) :) never see a spiv in clogs Ha Ha Ha
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Lookout, T he Standard Vanguard was also a juicey motor. Hovis was 6d a loaf. Although petrol was about 3/6 per gall, the blackmarket fuel coupons were exhorbitant.
The ubiquitous Spivs were in their element.
Campion,,I feel so privileged to have experienced that part of my life, whereby though times were tough,we as a family lived pretty well thanks to my father whose deeds during the war were well rewarded. Without the blackmarket of course,and not a spiv in sight.