Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on August 16, 2011, 11:47:AM
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Jeremy Bamber and Betty Howie had something in common, something which had been troubling the Boutflour and Eaton clans for years - it bothered them to a considerable degree that three outsiders stood to become beneficiaries in various estates, of `Gran` Speakman, and June Bambers, in particular...
Betty Howie, Sheila Caffell and Jeremy Bamber were all secretly referred to as the cuckoos, not proper family...
With Sheila dead and taken out of the equation, it only left two cuckoos for the relatives to direct malice a forethought toward, Jeremy and Betty - neither of whom would benefit significantly or at all, from the deaths of Mabel Speakman, Ralph and June Bamber
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Parentage?
Who were the biological parents of (1) Sheila, (2) Jeremy, and (3) Betty Howie?
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Jeremy Bamber and Betty Howie had something in common, something which had been troubling the Boutflour and Eaton clans for years - it bothered them to a considerable degree that three outsiders stood to become beneficiaries in various estates, of `Gran` Speakman, and June Bambers, in particular...
Betty Howie, Sheila Caffell and Jeremy Bamber were all secretly referred to as the cuckoos, not proper family...
Mike what kind of sources are available to support the above? I mean if they were secretly referred to as such, how do you or the defence know about it? If this did turn out to be true, it might indicate rifts and power politics within the families. The relatives are already being openly questioned on here about the U shaped scratch on the forward mantlepiece and I agree that such questions should be asked of them. But to suggest that the same relatives held malice aforethought towards Sheila, who was grievously taken from them in this tragedy, I think I'd want to see some evidence of that theory.
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So would I.
Edit: Plus aren't the Howie family an extremely wealthy clan in their own right?
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So would I.
Edit: Plus aren't the Howie family an extremely wealthy clan in their own right?
Howie? clan? are they Scottish?
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So would I.
Edit: Plus aren't the Howie family an extremely wealthy clan in their own right?
Howie? clan? are they Scottish?
No, just a figure of speech.
They own Wicks manor: http://www.wicksmanor.com/theteam.cfm
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So would I.
Edit: Plus aren't the Howie family an extremely wealthy clan in their own right?
Howie? clan? are they Scottish?
Actually they may be, or their relatives going back in time were. Unless Hamish is a good old fashioned Essex name that I was unaware of? :-\
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So would I.
Edit: Plus aren't the Howie family an extremely wealthy clan in their own right?
Howie? clan? are they Scottish?
Actually they may be, or their relatives going back in time were. Unless Hamish is a good old fashioned Essex name that I was unaware of? :-\
The Blackwater estuary villages have had a contingent of families of Scottish derivation for centuries. Some of them are the descendants of Scots farmers or crofters who moved to the district after buying cheap land on Tiptree Heath. Some are refugees from the Scottish clearances. Others are the descendants of impoverished farm workers who moved with their 'masters' to Essex. So, yes, Hamish is a good old Essex name.
It was by the same process that PM Harold Macmillan's (great?) grandfather moved from a croft in the highlands to a seedy bedsit in the city during the mid 19th century.
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So would I.
Edit: Plus aren't the Howie family an extremely wealthy clan in their own right?
Howie? clan? are they Scottish?
Actually they may be, or their relatives going back in time were. Unless Hamish is a good old fashioned Essex name that I was unaware of? :-\
Good old Scottish names ;)
Hamish He Who Removes male Celtic/Gaelic
Hamish James - in Gaelic, Seumas, Seanius male Scottish
Hamish Variant of James: Supplant. Replace. Variant of Jacob Derived from the Latin Jacomus male English
Fergus A Valor or Strength; a Typical Scottish Name Which is the Anglicized Form of the Gaelic Fearghas, a Compound Name Composed of the Elements Fear (Man) and Ghas (Valor, Strength). Male Scottish
Recorded as Howie and Howey, this famous Scottish name is locational. It derives from an estate known a "The lands of How" in the county of Ayrshire, although the precise location is now lost. The name therefore is a member of the ever growing list of surnames of the British Isles that originate from lost medieval sites. It is claimed that the origin is from the Ancient British-Strathclyde 'hoh', a word which pre-dates written history, and describes a hollow or deep valley, from which also developed the surname How or Howe. The name as Howie or Howey is probably a diminutive meaning Little How, the suffix 'ie' or 'y' being a popular Scottish and North of England endearment.
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I've been around here since about 1965 and I don't recognise any of those people. Athough John looks familiar? Perhaps he worked somewhere else before he worked there? He looks like a transport manager I used to do work for. But I can't place the others?
Do you think the Howies are distant relations do you Keira?
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So who is Betty Howie? I'm completely lost with this... ???
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So who is Betty Howie? I'm completely lost with this... ???
She, (BH) is the one that called AE. Apart from that I have no idea who or what she is. :-\
(Page 7 of AE's 1991 statement).
"It started with a phone call from Betty HOWIE who told me of what she thought had happened at White House Farm. It came as an utter shock. Apart from her telling me that there had been a multiple tradegy she told me that Sheila had been staying at the farm which I had not known.
I had to check what she said before telling dad (R.W.Boutflour).
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Hi Grahame, I wonder if Betty Howie was born Betty Bunting, if she was descended from a long line of Jehus/Joyces Farm Buntings in the Goldhanger/Tolleshunt district, and if she became a Howie when she married Thomas L Howie.
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So who is Betty Howie? I'm completely lost with this... ???
She, (BH) is the one that called AE. Apart from that I have no idea who or what she is. :-\
(Page 7 of AE's 1991 statement).
"It started with a phone call from Betty HOWIE who told me of what she thought had happened at White House Farm. It came as an utter shock. Apart from her telling me that there had been a multiple tradegy she told me that Sheila had been staying at the farm which I had not known.
I had to check what she said before telling dad (R.W.Boutflour).
Thank you, OnceSaid.
Slap on the wrist for me for not reading everything properly :-[
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Hi Grahame, I wonder if Betty Howie was born Betty Bunting, if she was descended from a long line of Jehus/Joyces Farm Buntings in the Goldhanger/Tolleshunt district, and if she became a Howie when she married Thomas L Howie.
A lot of essex families go back centuries. Sometimes very difficult to entangle. I read somewhere that most of us can trace our ancestors back to Gengis Khan? ;D
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Hi Grahame, I wonder if Betty Howie was born Betty Bunting, if she was descended from a long line of Jehus/Joyces Farm Buntings in the Goldhanger/Tolleshunt district, and if she became a Howie when she married Thomas L Howie.
A lot of essex families go back centuries. Sometimes very difficult to entangle. I read somewhere that most of us can trace our ancestors back to Gengis Khan? ;D
Many American Presidents can trace their roots back to Essex, some of them to the Blackwater estuary villages: the ancestors of George Bush and his father, for example, migrated from Messing to America - during the 17th century, I believe. Pres George Washington's (Gt Gt Gt? I forget how many greats) grandfather was the rector or vicar at one of the Maldon churches.
But that's hardly surprising as so many of the founding fathers of America migrated from Essex and the FF often became presidents. Religious Non Conformism was hugely popular in Essex and when the non-confrmists came under much persecution, a number of them took off off to the new world where they could practice whatever religious beliefs they wished.
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Did this BH live near WHF?
What was her connection to AE?
Why did she call AE and not the head of the family?
What was BH's occupaion, if she had one?
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Did this BH live near WHF?
What was her connection to AE?
Why did she call AE and not the head of the family?
What was BH's occupaion, if she had one?
Did this BH live near WHF?The BH I mentioned was the daughter of John Bunting born in Mayland (on the Dengie peninsular, near Maldon) in 1883 and his wife Alice, nee Salt.
In 1911, just prior to this Betty's birth, John and Alice lived on Osea Island, a fascinating place later owned by Gerald Durrell and his menagerie, Osea is in the Blackwater estuary and now the Rehab that poor Amy Winehouse wrote her song about: she had rehab on Osea.
Osea island is just off the coast of Goldhanger, where (Mabel) Speakman (nee Bunting) and her family lived. It's not that far away from WHF.
John Bunting is at this time described on the census as a 'Farmer's son, managing a farm'. I've some old pictures in my archives of Osea and that farm from the time when John Bunting was there, I'll try to dig them out and post these here. I believe the Buntings are shown in my pictures.
What was her connection to AE?
On the 1901 Census, BH's father, John, was living with his parents (John Bunting, born 1839 in Tolleshunt D'Arcy and Sarah). They lived at Jehews ( also spelled Jehu's - and now Joyce's) Farm, Goldhanger. Also living with them was the sister of John (born 1883), Mabel Bunting, who was later to become Gran Speakman.
So, this BH was the daughter of Gran Speakman's brother.
BH may not have had an occupation, women often didn't work then.
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Chochokeira, many thanks for your reply.
My heads in a spin but I'm sure it will all fit into place.
I do wonder how BH knew about the troubles at WHF before AE, and her father.
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Chochokeira, many thanks for your reply.
My heads in a spin but I'm sure it will all fit into place.
I do wonder how BH knew about the troubles at WHF before AE, and her father.
I have the impression that Betty Howie was close to June and Nevill their children - I've read that one of the Howie family stood bail for Jeremy. So perhaps Betty Howie was the natural member of the extended family for neighbours who'd seen a large number of police at WHF to contact?
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I may have this completely wrong, but I thought BH lived in one of the cottages near whf. That's what I thought but don't remember why I thought that. :-\
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Chochokeira, many thanks for your reply.
My heads in a spin but I'm sure it will all fit into place.
I do wonder how BH knew about the troubles at WHF before AE, and her father.
Or perhaps a friend of Betty Howie's among the neighbours heard about all of the police at WHF on the village grapevine and rang Betty? Either way, in small villages like Tolleshunt D'Arcy and Goldhanger, it would not have taken long for everyone to be aware of the murders.
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I may have this completely wrong, but I thought BH lived in one of the cottages near whf. That's what I thought but don't remember why I thought that. :-\
If 'your' BH was the BH I've written of here, her husband, Thomas L Howie died in Chelmsford, at the hospital, I believe, in 1995. At what stage are you speaking of - following the murders or before?
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I may have this completely wrong, but I thought BH lived in one of the cottages near whf. That's what I thought but don't remember why I thought that. :-\
If 'your' BH was the BH I've written of here, her husband, Thomas L Howie died in Chelmsford, at the hospital, I believe, in 1995. At what stage are you speaking of - following the murders or before?
I thought she was in one of the cottages at the time of the murders, that's why it was her who contacted Ann.
I'm probably wrong though.
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I may have this completely wrong, but I thought BH lived in one of the cottages near whf. That's what I thought but don't remember why I thought that. :-\
If 'your' BH was the BH I've written of here, her husband, Thomas L Howie died in Chelmsford, at the hospital, I believe, in 1995. At what stage are you speaking of - following the murders or before?
I thought she was in one of the cottages at the time of the murders, that's why it was her who contacted Ann.
I'm probably wrong though.
Could be. The Howies were not an old local family. If I'm right about Thomas - and I could be wildly wrong - then he was probably Thomas Lambie Howie. I have his marriage and death records, his directory listings - I can even tell you his telephone numbers and so on - yet I can't find his birth record. Why? My guess is that's because he was born in Scotland and I don't have all of the Scots' records.
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Possibly, I'll see what else I can dig up, maybe Mike knows a bit more?
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Possibly, I'll see what else I can dig up, maybe Mike knows a bit more?
I have them living at Chappel Farm, Little Totham in c 1950 and Wickes Manor Farm, Tolleshunt Major in c 1980.
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Well that's them then, they own Wicks Farm now. You must have see their products in shops near you, cooked meats etc? Normally in a gold packet, expensive but very good stuff.
Having said that, I suddenly got the feeling you are vegetarian? Need some sleep I think.
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I may have this completely wrong, but I thought BH lived in one of the cottages near whf. That's what I thought but don't remember why I thought that. :-\
If 'your' BH was the BH I've written of here, her husband, Thomas L Howie died in Chelmsford, at the hospital, I believe, in 1995. At what stage are you speaking of - following the murders or before?
I thought she was in one of the cottages at the time of the murders, that's why it was her who contacted Ann.
I'm probably wrong though.
Could be. The Howies were not an old local family. If I'm right about Thomas - and I could be wildly wrong - then he was probably Thomas Lambie Howie. I have his marriage and death records, his directory listings - I can even tell you his telephone numbers and so on - yet I can't find his birth record. Why? My guess is that's because he was born in Scotland and I don't have all of the Scots' records.
Or...
Theirs was a wartime marriage. Was Thomas perhaps an airman or a clever Scots engineer/mechanic working for the RAF on a local airfield?
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Well that's them then, they own Wicks Farm now. You must have see their products in shops near you, cooked meats etc? Normally in a gold packet, expensive but very good stuff.
Having said that, I suddenly got the feeling you are vegetarian? Need some sleep I think.
Ah, meat, yes I've heard this word...
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So, Keira. Why are you bringing all this up about the Howies. What connection have they got with what happened at WHF?
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So, Keira. Why are you bringing all this up about the Howies. What connection have they got with what happened at WHF?
Betty Howie played her part in the events of that period, didn't she? Was it Betty and her husband who stood bail for Jeremy - assuming that this claim is true? It was Betty who told AE that there was something very wrong at WHF on 7/8/85. I wasn't sure who Betty was, so I've been having a look at this.
Remember too that I'm researching the history and people of a number of the Blackwater estuary villages: Goldhanger, the Tolleshunts, the Tothams and Osea island, also neighbouring villages on Tiptree Heath - Messing, Tiptree, Inworth and so on for a book that I'm writing. The stories of the old farming families of the district, not least because of their fascinating interconnections, are a rich resource for me.
It's all the more interesting to me too because my family and ancestors lived in these lovely little villagers for centuries.
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So, Keira. Why are you bringing all this up about the Howies. What connection have they got with what happened at WHF?
There are so many unanswered questions to this case too, aren't there? I'm a great believer in looking at such puzzles from different angles.
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Mike, you asked about Jeremy and Sheila's birth parents.
We know that Sheila’s natural mother was Christine Jay, the daughter of Canon Eric Jay, a one-time senior chaplain to the then Archbishop of Canterbury. Her father was an unknown cleric or theology student, someone of that sort.
For me, part of what's interesting about Sheila's parents is:
1. Sheila's father's identity seems to have remained a well kept secret. I imagine Sheila learned who he was when she met her birth mother for the first time shortly before her death? Yet little or nothing ever seems to have leaked out about him. I wonder why? Was he considered a bad chapter that was best kept firmly shut? Or was this to protect him and his reputation? There are lots of unanswered questions about thsi man. Was his name on Sheila's birth certificate - was he even aware of her birth, let alone her death? Did her attend her funeral? A number of people let poor Sheila down, was her birth father one of them?
2. Sheila's maternal grandfather, Cannon Eric George Jay, was the son of a hosiery assistant who lived in Tiptree. Eric was born in Tiptree in 1907 and lived just 10 minutes drive from WHF where Sheila died. I wonder did he know the Bambers and religion obsessed June in particular? Did he know of Sheila's death and did he attend her funeral?
3. Sheila was adopted anonymously via the children's society yet, there's her grandfather, born and living just up the road from the Bambers. Sheila was also born in Gloucester, where Robert Woodiwis Boutflour lived and worked and where Nevill had been a student.
it's a small world, isn't it?
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It seems also that Jeremy was let down by those who should have been there for him, including his own father who apparently preferred to believe the family'd version of events before Jeremy's? I would endeavour never to let my sons down, but will stand by them whatever they might do.
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It seems also that Jeremy was let down by those who should have been there for him, including his own father who apparently preferred to believe the family'd version of events before Jeremy's? I would endeavour never to let my sons down, but will stand by them whatever they might do.
Would you hand them into the police if they were rioting in London? I know I wouldn't (I'd deal with them myself), but that seems to be what is happening. :o
With regards to JB's biological parents, it seems to me (my opinion only here) that they are more interested in how they are perceived by other people than anything else, they probably have the view that even JB being accused would shed them in a bad light and damage their perceived reputation. Washing their hands of him is the only thing they were ever going to do as they had done previously.
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It seems also that Jeremy was let down by those who should have been there for him, including his own father who apparently preferred to believe the family's version of events before Jeremy's? I would endeavour never to let my sons down, but will stand by them whatever they might do.
Would you hand them into the police if they were rioting in London? I know I wouldn't (I'd deal with them myself), but that seems to be what is happening. :o
With regards to JB's biological parents, it seems to me (my opinion only here) that they are more interested in how they are perceived by other people than anything else, they probably have the view that even JB being accused would shed them in a bad light and damage their perceived reputation. Washing their hands of him is the only thing they were ever going to do as they had done previously.
One thing is for sure they gave them up when they were born. I should think by judging a woman's nature in general that it was probably a lot more difficult for the women to give up their son/daughter than it was for the fathers, who seemed more concerned with their reputations and carears than their offspring?
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It seems also that Jeremy was let down by those who should have been there for him, including his own father who apparently preferred to believe the family's version of events before Jeremy's? I would endeavour never to let my sons down, but will stand by them whatever they might do.
Would you hand them into the police if they were rioting in London? I know I wouldn't (I'd deal with them myself), but that seems to be what is happening. :o
With regards to JB's biological parents, it seems to me (my opinion only here) that they are more interested in how they are perceived by other people than anything else, they probably have the view that even JB being accused would shed them in a bad light and damage their perceived reputation. Washing their hands of him is the only thing they were ever going to do as they had done previously.
One thing is for sure they gave them up when they were born. I should think by judging a woman's nature in general that it was probably a lot more difficult for the women to give up their son/daughter than it was for the fathers, who seemed more concerned with their reputations and carears than their offspring?
Especially in the 1950s - just think of all those babies who were adopted - the women would have had little or no say in the matter.
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I agree with Hartley.Im sure that the Howies did live in one of the cottages attached to the whf at the time of the murders.I think you will find also,that Betty Howies husband worked alongside Nevill at the farm for years too?
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Hartley...
With regards to JB's biological parents, it seems to me (my opinion only here) that they are more interested in how they are perceived by other people than anything else, they probably have the view that even JB being accused would shed them in a bad light and damage their perceived reputation. Washing their hands of him is the only thing they were ever going to do as they had done previously.
My thoughts exactly.
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It seems also that Jeremy was let down by those who should have been there for him, including his own father who apparently preferred to believe the family'd version of events before Jeremy's? I would endeavour never to let my sons down, but will stand by them whatever they might do.
Would you hand them into the police if they were rioting in London? I know I wouldn't (I'd deal with them myself), but that seems to be what is happening. :o
With regards to JB's biological parents, it seems to me (my opinion only here) that they are more interested in how they are perceived by other people than anything else, they probably have the view that even JB being accused would shed them in a bad light and damage their perceived reputation. Washing their hands of him is the only thing they were ever going to do as they had done previously.
I think that's very true.
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I agree with Hartley.Im sure that the Howies did live in one of the cottages attached to the whf at the time of the murders.I think you will find also,that Betty Howies husband worked alongside Nevill at the farm for years too?
Interesting, Tyler. Did you ever meet them? Also, do you know if Betty's husand was Thomas Lambie Howie, as appears to be the case? I have TL Howie at Wickes Manor Farm, Tolleshunt Major in 1980 on the telephone directory for that year. So assuming these are all the same person/people - and we're speaking of a rare name in very small villages, so I think that's likely - then they would have lived at WHF some time after 1980. Does all of that fit the knowledge you have of them?
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The following is from the ships' passenger lists for 1957, the year of Sheila's birth.
Name: Eric G Jay
Date of Birth: 1 Mar 1907
Age: 50
Address: Lambeth Palace, London SE1
Profession: Clerk in holy orders
Country of intended future permanent residence: England
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Date of Arrival: 20 Sep 1957
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Montreal
Ship Name: Carinthia
Shipping Line: Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 1963/01
Eric Jay was travelling alone, without his family.
I can't find Sheila's birth date, but believe it may have been prior to her grandfather's return.
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the only member of sheilas natural family to attend her funeral was her uncle peter jay, so her natural father must have known sheila existed, im assuming because of the jay name. Peter must have been his brother, obviously.
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the only member of sheilas natural family to attend her funeral was her uncle peter jay, so her natural father must have known sheila existed, im assuming because of the jay name. Peter must have been his brother, obviously.
Wouldn't that have been Christine's brother (Sheila's mother), as her name was Jay?
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yes correct, think i should go back to bed ;)
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so what was sheilas dad called? i thought he was jay
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Chocho, you are a fountain of knowledge. I enjoy reading your posts, just want to let you know! +1
And Andrea, right you are. I´ll throw in a +1 for you too.
This world would be a much, much better place if parents, especially fathers (most mothers keep their children) would care for their offspring. See them and acknowledge them - even if they are not living with the mother. It-is-so-important!!
I can´t help thinking about Anders Breivik who slaughtered 77 people in Norway. He didn´t see his father since he was fifteen/sixteen. And this scumbag of a father goes on TV from his home in southern Europe(filmed from the back, but for some reason with visibly armed guards parading around in front of him).
This so called father went on TV just to say that he would never forgive his son or ever see him again, his own SON. Hey, mister, you didn´t see him in the first place, and who knows, if you had, this tragedy might never have happened! Probably NOT.
I was so furious after seeing that on TV.
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yes correct, think i should go back to bed ;)
Oh don't do that! It's so confusing on here.
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Andrea, I heard earlier that is was Sheila´s uncle on her father´s side. It may be wrong, but you are not the only one who thinks/thought that.
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The following is from the ships' passenger lists for 1957, the year of Sheila's birth.
Name: Eric G Jay
Date of Birth: 1 Mar 1907
Age: 50
Address: Lambeth Palace, London SE1
Profession: Clerk in holy orders
Country of intended future permanent residence: England
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Date of Arrival: 20 Sep 1957
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Montreal
Ship Name: Carinthia
Shipping Line: Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 1963/01
Eric Jay was travelling alone, without his family.
I can't find Sheila's birth date, but believe it may have been prior to her grandfather's return.
The following is from the ships' passenger lists for 1960:
Name: Eric Jay
Birth Date: 1 Mar 1907
Age: 53
Address: 10 Sylvan Rd, Upper Norwood
Profession: Clergymen
Country of last permanent residence (12 or mths more): Canada
Country of intended future residence: Canada
Country of which a citizen: U.k. (Eng)
Intended durationof stay in UK: 4 months
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Date of Arrival: 10 Jun 1960
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Montreal [Quebec]
Ship Name: Saxonia
Shipping Line: The Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 8328/01
Eric was accompanied by his wife, Margaret Jay, whose record states:
Country of which a citizen: U.k. (Can)
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were sheilas natural parents married?
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so what was sheilas dad called? i thought he was jay
Don't know. That's one of the mysteries I believe....
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Chocho, you are a fountain of knowledge. I enjoy reading your posts, just want to let you know! +1
And Andrea, right you are. I´ll throw in a +1 for you too.
This world would be a much, much better place if parents, especially fathers (most mothers keep their children) would care for their offspring. See them and acknowledge them - even if they are not living with the mother. It-is-so-important!!
I can´t help thinking about Anders Breivik who slaughtered 77 people in Norway. He didn´t see his father since he was fifteen/sixteen. And this scumbag of a father goes on TV from his home in southern Europe(filmed from the back, but for some reason with visibly armed guards parading around in front of him).
This so called father went on TV just to say that he would never forgive his son or ever see him again, his own SON. Hey, mister, you didn´t see him in the first place, and who knows, if you had, this tragedy might never have happened! Probably NOT.
I was so furious after seeing that on TV.
Thanks, abs. You are so right in this post too. If all parents loved their children there would be considerably less problems in this world.
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so what was sheilas dad called? i thought he was jay
Sheila's mother was Chrstine Jay, Andrea. I don't believe anyone knows who Sheila's father was. I think you've said that you thought he was a vicar or a theology student, something like that?
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were sheilas natural parents married?
I don't believe so.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Christine Jay's father (Sheila's maternal grandfather) was Cannon Eric Jay who lived at Lambeth Palace, the following is what one of my subscription biographies states of him:
"Eric was ordained as a priest in the Church of England in 1932. He later became chaplain to the archbishop of Canterbury, and assisted at the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II in Westminster Abbey in June 1953. He later moved to Canada to take up an academic post in the Theology Department at McGill University Montreal. He retired, and subsequently died in Montreal c. 1990(?)"
As he died in c 1990, he might presumably have learned of Sheila's tragic death.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
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I wonder if Cannon Jay is in this photograph?
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yes, wasnt jeremys dad a controller of stores at the palace?
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sheila and jeremy were adopted through the church of england i think.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
I know a 49 year old man here in Denmark. He was born here, but his mother was from Wales, and his father too. They were very young when she got pregnant. They wanted to stay together and have the baby, but her snobbish family (her father a lawyer, her boyfriend had a working class background) forced her to go to Denmark to give birth and give the child up for adoption.
When this man I know was 29, he saw an ad in a Danish newspaper. A couple from England were looking for their son, born this and this day, this and this year, who had been given up for adoption.
He knew that had to be him, so he answered the ad. He found out that his biological parents had indeed gotten married, they had more kids, so he has younger siblings.
He still visits them quite often in Wales. Such a bittersweet story.
This must have been common in England back then, or what??
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yes, wasnt jeremys dad a controller of stores at the palace?
This may not work:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,425.msg6637.html#msg6637
Otherwise its on Re: Are JB's real parents the REAL parents March 02
He looks rather pleased with himself.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
Thanks for finding this, HM Essex and, no, these weren't ordinary adoptions, were they? +1
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
I know a 49 year old man here in Denmark. He was born here, but his mother was from Wales, and his father too. They were very young when she got pregnant. They wanted to stay together and have the baby, but her snobbish family (her father a lawyer, her boyfriend had a working class background) forced her to go to Denmark to give birth and give the child up for adoption.
When this man I know was 29, he saw an ad in a Danish newspaper. A couple from England were looking for their son, born this and this day, this and this year, who had been given up for adoption.
He knew that had to be him, so he answered the ad. He found out that his biological parents had indeed gotten married, they had more kids, so he has younger siblings.
He still visits them quite often in Wales. Such a bittersweet story.
This must have been common in England back then, or what??
Most likely Abs, if they could afford to be sent abroad to escape the shame. Depends what class people were.
I know two women who were brought up by grandparents thinking they were the parents and who found out years later that their 'sisters' was actually their mothers. They were born in the '70s.
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the only member of sheilas natural family to attend her funeral was her uncle peter jay, so her natural father must have known sheila existed, im assuming because of the jay name. Peter must have been his brother, obviously.
Wouldn't that have been Christine's brother (Sheila's mother), as her name was Jay?
Yes, was Christine's brother, Christine had one brother, Peter, and one sister.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
I know a 49 year old man here in Denmark. He was born here, but his mother was from Wales, and his father too. They were very young when she got pregnant. They wanted to stay together and have the baby, but her snobbish family (her father a lawyer, her boyfriend had a working class background) forced her to go to Denmark to give birth and give the child up for adoption.
When this man I know was 29, he saw an ad in a Danish newspaper. A couple from England were looking for their son, born this and this day, this and this year, who had been given up for adoption.
He knew that had to be him, so he answered the ad. He found out that his biological parents had indeed gotten married, they had more kids, so he has younger siblings.
He still visits them quite often in Wales. Such a bittersweet story.
This must have been common in England back then, or what??
Most likely Abs, if they could afford to be sent abroad to escape the shame. Depends what class people were.
I know two women who were brought up by grandparents thinking they were the parents and who found out years later that their 'sisters' was actually their mothers. They were born in the '70s.
That happened to me!! Until I was seven, I thought that my mother was my sister.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
I know a 49 year old man here in Denmark. He was born here, but his mother was from Wales, and his father too. They were very young when she got pregnant. They wanted to stay together and have the baby, but her snobbish family (her father a lawyer, her boyfriend had a working class background) forced her to go to Denmark to give birth and give the child up for adoption.
When this man I know was 29, he saw an ad in a Danish newspaper. A couple from England were looking for their son, born this and this day, this and this year, who had been given up for adoption.
He knew that had to be him, so he answered the ad. He found out that his biological parents had indeed gotten married, they had more kids, so he has younger siblings.
He still visits them quite often in Wales. Such a bittersweet story.
This must have been common in England back then, or what??
Most likely Abs, if they could afford to be sent abroad to escape the shame. Depends what class people were.
I know two women who were brought up by grandparents thinking they were the parents and who found out years later that their 'sisters' was actually their mothers. They were born in the '70s.
That happened to me!! Until I was seven, I thought that my mother was my sister.
Oh, poor you, Shon'. That must have been such a shock.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
Thanks for finding this, HM Essex and, no, these weren't ordinary adoptions, were they? +1
Thanks Keira.
This connection to such high echelons of society must have made the presence of these two unplanned babies most shameful and unwelcome indeed.
I wonder if the grandparents (I say this as I doubt the two young mothers had any say or perhaps were consoled by the fact) were able to vet prospective adoptive parents. Maybe it's obvious that they did.
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My Grandad, who I called Dad, used to collect me from school, in his overcoat and trilby (!) and the other kids would ask me why my dad was so old!! So I started asking questions. But I didn't find out the real truth until I was 28.
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My Grandad, who I called Dad, used to collect me from school, in his overcoat and trilby (!) and the other kids would ask me why my dad was so old!! So I started asking questions. But I didn't find out the real truth until I was 28.
WOW - that must have been hard for you! When I was 21, I found out I have a half sister. My older sisters and my mother (and my father obviously - she was his!) knew, but they never told me. I was FURIOUS.
I know that is nothing compared, I can just imagine your confusion, because I reacted very strongly to what I found to be deception from my closest relatives!
Poor you, shona!
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
Thanks for finding this, HM Essex and, no, these weren't ordinary adoptions, were they? +1
Thanks Keira.
This connection to such high echelons of society must have made the presence of these two unplanned babies most shameful and unwelcome indeed.
I wonder if the grandparents (I say this as I doubt the two young mothers had any say or perhaps were consoled by the fact) were able to vet prospective adoptive parents. Maybe it's obvious that they did.
Yes, I would think so.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
I know a 49 year old man here in Denmark. He was born here, but his mother was from Wales, and his father too. They were very young when she got pregnant. They wanted to stay together and have the baby, but her snobbish family (her father a lawyer, her boyfriend had a working class background) forced her to go to Denmark to give birth and give the child up for adoption.
When this man I know was 29, he saw an ad in a Danish newspaper. A couple from England were looking for their son, born this and this day, this and this year, who had been given up for adoption.
He knew that had to be him, so he answered the ad. He found out that his biological parents had indeed gotten married, they had more kids, so he has younger siblings.
He still visits them quite often in Wales. Such a bittersweet story.
This must have been common in England back then, or what??
Most likely Abs, if they could afford to be sent abroad to escape the shame. Depends what class people were.
I know two women who were brought up by grandparents thinking they were the parents and who found out years later that their 'sisters' was actually their mothers. They were born in the '70s.
That happened to me!! Until I was seven, I thought that my mother was my sister.
Oh no Shona!
One of these women I mentioned is a distant relative and she only found out at her 'mother's' funeral when she was an adult. As far as I know, she hasn't spoken to anyone since as she was so shocked!
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My Grandad, who I called Dad, used to collect me from school, in his overcoat and trilby (!) and the other kids would ask me why my dad was so old!! So I started asking questions. But I didn't find out the real truth until I was 28.
WOW - that must have been hard for you! When I was 21, I found out I have a half sister. My older sisters and my mother (and my father obviously - she was his!) knew, but they never told me. I was FURIOUS.
I know that is nothing compared, I can just imagine your confusion, because I reacted very strongly to what I found to be deception from my closest relatives!
Poor you, shona!
I discovered that I have a half sister, 18 months older than me and called Helen. I've never had the courage to find her.
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My Grandad, who I called Dad, used to collect me from school, in his overcoat and trilby (!) and the other kids would ask me why my dad was so old!! So I started asking questions. But I didn't find out the real truth until I was 28.
Poor old you, no wonder you feel down sometimes. That must have affected your trust in your family.
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I hope that I'm not hijacking a thread, here. But I do understand ( a bit) the adoption process in the 60's. I was born in a mother and baby home and was supposed to be adopted, but my grandfather took me home when he came to collect my mother. It was a time of great shame, for unmarried mothers.
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I hope that I'm not hijacking a thread, here. But I do understand ( a bit) the adoption process in the 60's. I was born in a mother and baby home and was supposed to be adopted, but my grandfather took me home when he came to collect my mother. It was a time of great shame, for unmarried mothers.
Aah, that's really sweet. Your grandfather couldn't let you go.
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My Grandad, who I called Dad, used to collect me from school, in his overcoat and trilby (!) and the other kids would ask me why my dad was so old!! So I started asking questions. But I didn't find out the real truth until I was 28.
WOW - that must have been hard for you! When I was 21, I found out I have a half sister. My older sisters and my mother (and my father obviously - she was his!) knew, but they never told me. I was FURIOUS.
I know that is nothing compared, I can just imagine your confusion, because I reacted very strongly to what I found to be deception from my closest relatives!
Poor you, shona!
I discovered that I have a half sister, 18 months older than me and called Helen. I've never had the courage to find her.
I went straight and found my half sister. That was a good thing. First of all, I was the first from my family to contact her. She had ZERO contact with anyone from our father´s family, since he committed suicide (yeah - we all have "funny" families, huh!) when she was one and I was four. She was really, really glad that I did this. It also opened the door for my sisters (reluctantly) accepting her, but they did eventually. She is a sweet person, smart and talented.
You should try to find your sister, shona, maybe something good will come from it.
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My Grandad, who I called Dad, used to collect me from school, in his overcoat and trilby (!) and the other kids would ask me why my dad was so old!! So I started asking questions. But I didn't find out the real truth until I was 28.
WOW - that must have been hard for you! When I was 21, I found out I have a half sister. My older sisters and my mother (and my father obviously - she was his!) knew, but they never told me. I was FURIOUS.
I know that is nothing compared, I can just imagine your confusion, because I reacted very strongly to what I found to be deception from my closest relatives!
Poor you, shona!
I discovered that I have a half sister, 18 months older than me and called Helen. I've never had the courage to find her.
You want to find her, don't you Shon? Go on go for it, gal! She'll be so happy to hear from you. If you'd like my help, just PM me her details.
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I agree Shona.You should look her up.You will probably find that she has been looking for you too.Good luck if you decide to find her x
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She might not. My real father died just after I was born, of a heart attack ( he was 30, and a serving policeman) and when I started asking questions, I was told it was because of me. The stress of covering up what he'd done to his family and the police force. So, whether she knew about me or not, she'd probably hate me. Best to let it lie.
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She might not. My real father died just after I was born, of a heart attack ( he was 30, and a serving policeman) and when I started asking questions, I was told it was because of me. The stress of covering up what he'd done to his family and the police force. So, whether she knew about me or not, she'd probably hate me. Best to let it lie.
You are not giving your half sister credit for having a mind of her own. She will have seen through that nonsense claim and is sitting there now thinking exactly the same of you: best to leave it because Shona blames me for...whatever nonsense she was told. Go for it, find her.
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My Grandad, who I called Dad, used to collect me from school, in his overcoat and trilby (!) and the other kids would ask me why my dad was so old!! So I started asking questions. But I didn't find out the real truth until I was 28.
WOW - that must have been hard for you! When I was 21, I found out I have a half sister. My older sisters and my mother (and my father obviously - she was his!) knew, but they never told me. I was FURIOUS.
I know that is nothing compared, I can just imagine your confusion, because I reacted very strongly to what I found to be deception from my closest relatives!
Poor you, shona!
I discovered that I have a half sister, 18 months older than me and called Helen. I've never had the courage to find her.
You want to find her, don't you Shon? Go on go for it, gal! She'll be so happy to hear from you. If you'd like my help, just PM me her details.
My wife was adopted. Her parents were very old fashioned and secretive and didn't tell her much at allabout her mother. She went to a place in Witham down a road the other side of the train station and the lady their found out a great deal about her mother and her father and she had even got hold of original letters sent to and from her mother. It made very moving reading. She decided not to follow it up and so did not trace her mother after all.
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For Keira. I got confused in an earlier post and wrote wrong information.
The people that I actually thought lived in one of the cottages attached to whf were Len Foakes and his wife,and that this couple worked on the farm and were good friends of the Bambers.
I dont know why I thought it was the Howies,but I always seem to get them mixed up.
In actual fact,I know nothing about the Howies at all to be honest,so Im afraid I cannot help you there.Sorry! x
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For Keira. I got confused in an earlier post and wrote wrong information.
The people that I actually thought lived in one of the cottages attached to whf were Len Foakes and his wife,and that this couple worked on the farm and were good friends of the Bambers.
I dont know why I thought it was the Howies,but I always seem to get them mixed up.
In actual fact,I know nothing about the Howies at all to be honest,so Im afraid I cannot help you there.Sorry! x
No problem and no need to apologise, Tyler. I bet I get more confused than you do. The complexities of this case are guaranteed to confuse all of us.
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Keira,I found an old post of yours,where you stated that a young orphaned Howie was adopted by Granny Speakman. Interesting................!
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Keira,I found an old post of yours,where you stated that a young orphaned Howie was adopted by Granny Speakman. Interesting................!
I hope I also said that I've read that on here and elsewhere, Tyler, as that's where this information came from.
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were sheilas natural parents married?
I don't they were married, Andrea, because Sheila's birth was registered under the name of Sheila Jay and her mother's maiden name was Jay.
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wasnt he something to do with the arch bishop of canterbury or was that jeremys dad?
canon eric jay
Eric G. Jay Sheila's grandfather (father of Christine's mother) took part in ceremony of Queen's Coronation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_participants_in_Queen_Elizabeth_II_coronation_procession
He's listed under 'The Archbishops'.
It's interesting that Jeremy's natural father also had connections with Royal Household.
These weren't just 'ordinary' adoptions it seems.
The following picture is of the Duke of Edinburgh playing Cricket in Tolleshunt D'Arcy in 1949.
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The following picture is of the Duke of Edinburgh playing Cricket in Tolleshunt D'Arcy in 1949.
Did Nevill play cricket?
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Innocent days at the Thursday Club
MILES KINGTON
The Independant
Tuesday, 16 January 1996
"I think I am probably one of the last surviving members of the old Thursday Club, the gang of cronies that the Duke of Edinburgh used to gather round him in the 1950s to have a bit of fun away from his serious life at Buckingham Palace.
The club was strictly all-male, but that does not mean there were not women at these gatherings. After all, as Arthur Koestler once said to me, "The extraordinary thing about men at all-male gatherings is that they talk about women non-stop, whereas at mixed functions the men talk only about male hobbies such as sport, politics and cars - never about women, even though there are many women present."
...On an average night of the Thursday Club there would be 10 or 15 members present. There would be Lord Louis Mountbatten, Arthur Koestler, Prince Philip, Cecil Beaton, and little Larry Adler playing his mouth organ in the corner, and maybe one or other of the Kray brothers. There would also be the ladies, whose names I remember as Flo, Loulou, Beryl, Gertie, Simone, Pat and one or two others. To begin with, I puzzled over their presence there.
"I had no intention," I said stiffly. But he was not listening to me.
"These girls are all great ladies in their own right," he said. "The Duchess of Northumberland, the Percy, the Lady Devonshire ..."
"These are their titles?" I said, amazed.
"No," he said. "They are the pubs they work at."
There was a chorus of coarse laughter from the gathered throng, but to my amazement Lord Louis Mountbatten burst into tears and started cradling his head on his arm.
"Nobody understands me," he said. "Nobody loves me any more. Especially in India."
"Oh, knock it off, Louis!" Philip would say. "OK, so you slaughtered a couple of million Indians during Partition. OK, so you made a mistake. But don't let it get you down! Don't spoil the party! And no pictures please, Cecil!"
This to Cecil Beaton, who had already got his little Brownie out.
"If you don't want photos, why do you ask me here?" said Cecil, looking aggrieved.
"We shall have photos when we are ready for the group photo," said Philip. "It is very important that these occasions should look innocent when the time comes."
"When what time comes?" I asked.
"When they write my life story," said Philip.
There was an explosion of laughter at this.
"Who on earth would want to write your life story?" said old John Betjeman, who dropped in to the Thursday Club occasionally. "You are no more interesting than a public statue. You have done nothing except marry the Queen. That is all you have done."
"It will be enough, one day," sighed Philip. "One day in the future biographers will peer into the Royal Family's history looking for dirt. They will say, did Prince Philip ever have a wild life? Are there dark secrets? And they will discover the existence of the Thursday Club!"
"But nothing exciting ever happens at the Thursday Club!" said Flo, pouting. "Nobody ever gets out of line! It is all as safe as houses. We have a drink and we put a Joe Loss record on, but it is all as boring as hell."
"That is the whole point," said Philip. "They will say that, and they will be right and they will not investigate further. This will be a cover- up for ..."
He looked at his watch. "I must be going now. I have a ... meeting. But if anyone rings tell them I am here."
With that he was gone.
I often wondered where he was off to. Back to the Palace, I expect."
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Oooh err missus!! ???
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The following picture is of the Duke of Edinburgh playing Cricket in Tolleshunt D'Arcy in 1949.
Did Nevill play cricket?
If he did play cricket, he didn't play on this occasion. Here's a newspaper report of the match and those who did play. This is a copy of an old report, I hope you can read it.
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No idea what that means, but D of E is mentioned in both teams!
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No idea what that means, but D of E is mentioned in both teams!
I think the mention of the Duke of Edinburgh under the D'Arcy team is merely because the Duke was bowled out by one of the D'Arcy team.
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No idea what that means, but D of E is mentioned in both teams!
I think the mention of the Duke of Edinburgh under the D'Arcy team is merely because the Duke was bowled out by one of the D'Arcy team.
It's the opposite Keira - it seems the Duke bowled out the D'Arcy opening batsman.
He then took a catch to take out the other opener t'boot!
It would have been impressive had he not gone on to be bowled out himself for 1 :D
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I, for one, think that Sheila and Jeremy have too many roots reaching back
towards the Royal Family and it's staff, Clergy, etc, for it to be a coincidence that they
both have this connection!
What are the odds against BOTH of these adopted children having these connections?
How very odd indeed that the "Thursday Club" just happened to meet at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.
Is it possible that the Bamber family, being landed, wealthy and childless, were a convenient dumping ground for
rich and influential people to dump two love children - yet close enough that their whereabouts
and progress could easily be checked up on?
Is there some reason why their entire biological parentage must never be made public?
Is that the reason Jeremy will never get a fair appeal hearing?
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good points summer
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I, for one, think that Sheila and Jeremy have too many roots reaching back
towards the Royal Family and it's staff, Clergy, etc, for it to be a coincidence that they
both have this connection!
What are the odds against BOTH of these adopted children having these connections?
How very odd indeed that the "Thursday Club" just happened to meet at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.
Is it possible that the Bamber family, being landed, wealthy and childless, were a convenient dumping ground for
rich and influential people to dump two love children - yet close enough that their whereabouts
and progress could easily be checked up on?
Is there some reason why their entire biological parentage must never be made public?
Is that the reason Jeremy will never get a fair appeal hearing?
Bless you Summer. That is what I've been wondering.
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I, for one, think that Sheila and Jeremy have too many roots reaching back
towards the Royal Family and it's staff, Clergy, etc, for it to be a coincidence that they
both have this connection!
What are the odds against BOTH of these adopted children having these connections?
How very odd indeed that the "Thursday Club" just happened to meet at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.
Is it possible that the Bamber family, being landed, wealthy and childless, were a convenient dumping ground for
rich and influential people to dump two love children - yet close enough that their whereabouts
and progress could easily be checked up on?
Is there some reason why their entire biological parentage must never be made public?
Is that the reason Jeremy will never get a fair appeal hearing?
The author Margery Allingham lived in Tolleshunt D'Arcy at that time, Summer, and her husband, Philip ('Pip') was a member of the Thursday Club.
I doubt if Margery would have been so happy about Pip's membership had she known how notorious the Thursday Club was to become.
"From 1935 until her death in 1966, Margery Allingham and her husband Philip Youngman Carter ("Pip") lived at D'Arcy House in the Essex village of Tolleshunt D'Arcy, near Maldon, where they enjoyed what Margery's sister Joyce described as "a life full of writing, art and village cricket". "
After the war, Pip's job meant that he and Margery divided their time between D'Arcy and London. But Margery always preferred D'Arcy.
One of the highlights of village life in the 1950s was the annual cricket match between the village and Pip's London club, the Thursday Club.
The club had been formed in 1946, and its members met weekly for lunch in a Soho oyster bar. Membership was limited to 25 people, and included well-known figures such as Peter Ustinov, Gilbert Harding and the Duke of Edinburgh.
The match was held in June, in a field which was part of the extensive grounds of D'Arcy House.
The team who played on 18 June 1949 included a distinguished visitor - the Duke of Edinburgh. Margery and Philip had promised not to reveal the Duke's identity until after the match had started. But one of the villagers spotted him at lunch and said to Margery, "Doesn't that gentleman look exactly like the Duke of Edinburgh?" With great presence of mind, Margery calmly replied, "Yes, exactly like him!"
Margery's sister Joyce took cine films of the cricket matches and other highlights of village life. She left these to the Univeristy of East Anglia's East Anglian Film Archive in her will. Part of one film shows Margery baking bread for the cricketers' lunch.
Apologies, I should have given an attribution with this. It's on this link to the Margery Allingham Society website:
http://www.margeryallingham.org.uk/darcy.htm
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, where Margery Allingham and Pip lived and where Prince Philip and the Thursday Club were entertained.
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Follow the road that runs past D'Arcy House for a 100 yards or so and turn left and you're on the Tollesbury Road and just a stone's throw from Page's Lane and WHF.
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No idea what that means, but D of E is mentioned in both teams!
I think the mention of the Duke of Edinburgh under the D'Arcy team is merely because the Duke was bowled out by one of the D'Arcy team.
It's the opposite Keira - it seems the Duke bowled out the D'Arcy opening batsman.
He then took a catch to take out the other opener t'boot!
It would have been impressive had he not gone on to be bowled out himself for 1 :D
Thanks for that, Bob!
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Stephen Ward was an osteopath and artist who became notorious as one of the central figures in the 1963 Profumo affair, a British public scandal which profoundly affected the ruling Conservative Party government. Didn't Prime Minister Harold Macmillan resign over the affair?
Ward was the son of Arthur Evelyn Ward, Canon of Rochester Cathedral. He was educated at Highgate School in London. In 1920 the family moved to Torquay when Ward's father became Vicar of St. Matthias.
As a portrait artist, he had members of the Royal Family and politicians sit for him, including The Duke of Edinburgh, The Duke and Duchess of Kent and the Earl of Snowdon.
But Ward was basically a very upmarket pimp who introduced rich and famous men to young call girls. It was rumoured that Ward was the pimp of Ruth Ellis, the last woman to be hanged in the UK.
In 1961, Ward introduced the married British cabinet minister and MP John Profumo to a showgirl named Christine Keeler at a house party hosted at Lord Astor's country home, Cliveden, in the summer of 1961. Profumo's subsequent sexual relationship with Keeler and his false statement to the House of Commons regarding its nature led to Profumo's resignation.
Unknown to Profumo, Christine Keeler appeared also to be offering her services to Yevgeni Ivanov, a naval attaché at the embassy of the Soviet Union and Russian spy. Ward was co-operating with MI5 to entrap Ivanov, so Profumo's
affair quickly become known in establishment circles. Rumours about Profumo's relationship with Keeler became public in 1962.
Following the Profumo scandal, Ward was charged with living off the profits of prostitution ("immoral earnings"). Ward committed suicide by overdosing on sleeping tablets on the last day of the trial.
Ward was also a member of the notorious Thursday Club, a group of hard-drinking friends from top London society, including Prince Philip, the Marquess of Milford Haven and photographers Antony Beauchamp and Baron Nahum.[
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The Profumo Affair, in which some Thursday Club members played leading roles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k38gxwVSnTo&feature=related
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colin caffells mother was a cleaner for the profumos, he remembers getting hand me downs from their children.
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colin caffells mother was a cleaner for the profumos
Oh, blimey...!
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its all in the book choc ;)
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Thursday Club member, Stephen Ward's statement denying that he'd done anything wrong in respect of the Profumo affair:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dcIxHW7_yE
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy
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if the familly thought this about jermy then the must have thought it about shiela as well witch makes some of there sbsquent statements about her sound pretty sick and cyncall.
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy
That wall needs seeing to the earlier the better by the looks of it.
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D'Arcy House, Tolleshunt D'Arcy
That wall needs seeing to the earlier the better by the looks of it.
Yes, it's a bit iffy, isn't it? I shan't stand beneath that wall when I'm taking photographs...
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Thank you Campion, I really enjoyed this thread....Just one thing Sheila was born in Bath Somerset and not Gloucestershire...I think Kiera did really well on this. :)