Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Curiosity on April 17, 2025, 03:27:PM

Title: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Curiosity on April 17, 2025, 03:27:PM
Will Jeremy Bamber's battle-barge be sunk in the English Channel and disappear without trace or will it arrive safely at Caen Beach on the way to Saint-Tropez? -

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2025/apr/17/the-murders-at-white-house-farm-should-jeremy-bamber-still-be-in-prison
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 03:33:PM
The last time he came over the channel and touched at Dover he didn't get a good result.

The start of a 40 year nightmare.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Adam on April 17, 2025, 03:43:PM
So far, the commission has spent four years dealing with four of these pieces of evidence.

At this rate, it would take another six years to consider the case, by which time Bamber would be 70.

It is believed that the decision to accelerate his case has been made to save the CCRC from further criticism.

----------

So they have gone through all 10 grounds in 4 years instead of 10.

Don't know why he should get preferential treatment in his forth application to the CCRC/COA. His choice to submit 10 grounds.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 03:57:PM
Is today an announcement?
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Curiosity on April 17, 2025, 04:33:PM
Is today an announcement?
Simon Hattenstone seems to think so, being a supporter in the know. Maybe the CCRC have now appointed an interim leader who can sign-off the submission today specially for Easter. Or could be a group decision by those lower down the ladder.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 04:46:PM
Interesting article, enjoyed it.

Bamber seems as resilient as ever even after 40 years.

Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: lookout on April 17, 2025, 04:57:PM
It's always been the blasted phone-calls, in fact,it's always been one word against the other and without evidence set in stone how on earth does anyone get past that. ?
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 05:04:PM
Am I right in saying If he gets a knock back it will be a provisional decision as in the same as it was in 2011?

Does he then get three months to submit more grounds?
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 05:08:PM
----------

So they have gone through all 10 grounds in 4 years instead of 10.

Don't know why he should get preferential treatment in his forth application to the CCRC/COA. His choice to submit 10 grounds.

Wouldn't call it preferential treatment as such although do agree with you they may have speeded the process to save themselves from further criticsm. He does have a long history with the CCRC.

If the grounds don't meet the standard he will be back to square one again. Perhaps quicker than expected,
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2025, 05:51:PM
Interesting article, enjoyed it.

Bamber seems as resilient as ever even after 40 years.
A well-written article from a former Salford teacher, but he skirts round the difficult issues, probably led by the Bamber charisma and manipulation which allows the latter to set the agenda, any disquisition even minorly critical running the risk of disownment. So no mention of the turbulent relationship he had with parents and sister, his intense dislike of the twins, he accepts Bamber's feeble justification of the Osea Road robbery and his indecision about the order of the telephone calls.

One would also have to accept that police withheld the knowledge of speaking to Nevill that fateful morning at an early stage in the investigation when there was no reason to and Bamber wasn't in the frame.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Adam on April 17, 2025, 06:08:PM
A well-written article from a former Salford teacher, but he skirts round the difficult issues, probably led by the Bamber charisma and manipulation which allows the latter to set the agenda, any disquisition even minorly critical running the risk of disownment. So no mention of the turbulent relationship he had with parents and sister, his strong dislike of the twins, he accepts Bamber's feeble justification of the Osea Road robbery and his indecision about the order of the telephone calls.

One would also have to accept that police withheld the knowledge of speaking to Nevill that fateful morning at an early stage in the investigation when there was no reason to and Bamber wasn't in the frame.

To highlight poor security but agrees he should not have spent the money.

Feeble?

He did not say it was him the following day. And had staged the scene to make it look like an outside job.

Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ngb1066 on April 17, 2025, 06:14:PM
Am I right in saying If he gets a knock back it will be a provisional decision as in the same as it was in 2011?

Does he then get three months to submit more grounds?

Yes.

Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2025, 06:15:PM
To highlight poor security but agrees he should not have spent the money.

Feeble?

He did not say it was him the following day. And had staged the scene to make it look like an outside job.
But why not tell his parents and the Boutflours that they were in danger of being robbed, instead of fleecing the joint himself? It was Jeremy who persuaded Nevill not to deposit the past month's takings in the bank as was customary, but to lock them in the safe, so I don't accept Jeremy's explanation. It was a symbolic microcosm of the crime to come, as he was striking whilst the funds were at their zenith, untouched by hospitalization fees for Sheila at St. Andrews, Northampton and possible private schooling for Nicholas and Daniel when they reached a similar age to when Jeremy himself was packed off to Greshams.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Adam on April 17, 2025, 06:22:PM
But why not tell his parents and the Boutflours that they were in danger of being robbed, instead of fleecing the joint himself? It was Jeremy who persuaded Nevill not to deposit the past month's takings in the bank as was customary, but to lock them in the safe, so I don't accept Jeremy's explanation. It was a symbolic microcosm of the crime to come, as he was striking whilst the funds were at their zenith, untouched by hospitalization fees for Sheila at St. Andrews, Northampton and possible private schooling for Nicholas and Daniel when they reached a similar age to when Jeremy himself was packed off to Greshams.

Not sure how there were security issues.

Thieves would have to get into the caravan site and then a safe. They would only do that if they knew there was good money inside.

Most of the time the safe was empty or had minimal money. Bamber's robbery was on a jackpot day of around £900.00.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 06:23:PM
A well-written article from a former Salford teacher, but he skirts round the difficult issues, probably led by the Bamber charisma and manipulation which allows the latter to set the agenda, any disquisition even minorly critical running the risk of disownment. So no mention of the turbulent relationship he had with parents and sister, his intense dislike of the twins, he accepts Bamber's feeble justification of the Osea Road robbery and his indecision about the order of the telephone calls.

One would also have to accept that police withheld the knowledge of speaking to Nevill that fateful morning at an early stage in the investigation when there was no reason to and Bamber wasn't in the frame.

He states in that article that one of the reasons he robbed the site is because he believes he was owed money.

I do recall him mentioning having a dispute over AE over bonuses and him complaining she got more than he did. Whether that be a genuine justified grievance or not , but the two reasons he gave back in 1985 highlifed were part greed and to highlight the lacklustre security of the site.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2025, 06:33:PM
He states in that article that one of the reasons he robbed the site is because he believes he was owed money.

I do recall him mentioning having a dispute over AE over bonuses and him complaining she got more than he did. Whether that be a genuine justified grievance or not , but the two reasons he gave back in 1985 highlifed were part greed and to highlight the lacklustre security of the site.
Pamela used to give her bonus directly to Ann, whereas June kept this as a lever to use against her son. In fact, it was only a symbolic one, as she frequently wrote personal cheques in his favour to cover his lavish lifestyle. I think there was resentment on several issues regarding Osea Road, where Jeremy might
have preferred to work and which he may well have known as things stood was willed to Sheila upon his mother's death.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: BarefootDanC on April 17, 2025, 09:23:PM
Am I right in saying If he gets a knock back it will be a provisional decision as in the same as it was in 2011?

Does he then get three months to submit more grounds?

Yes. If they refuse to refer, the CCRC will produce a Provisional Statement of Reasons for these and then look at the less detailed grounds.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: BarefootDanC on April 17, 2025, 09:27:PM
So far, the commission has spent four years dealing with four of these pieces of evidence.

At this rate, it would take another six years to consider the case, by which time Bamber would be 70.

It is believed that the decision to accelerate his case has been made to save the CCRC from further criticism.

----------

So they have gone through all 10 grounds in 4 years instead of 10.

Don't know why he should get preferential treatment in his forth application to the CCRC/COA. His choice to submit 10 grounds.

The other grounds are less details, so these should be quicker to work through.

Also, some of these should be easy to dismiss. For example, one ground is the alleged "Nevill Bamber called at 3:26 and Jeremy called at 3:36". This time, the new evidence is someone's "forensic expert opinion" that these represent two calls.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: BarefootDanC on April 17, 2025, 09:30:PM
Will Jeremy Bamber's battle-barge be sunk in the English Channel and disappear without trace or will it arrive safely at Caen Beach on the way to Saint-Tropez? -

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2025/apr/17/the-murders-at-white-house-farm-should-jeremy-bamber-still-be-in-prison

In order to get referred, the CCRC would have to believe that there is now merit in the "2 silencers" theory, or expert opinion that "the silencer was never on the gun" - which is likely inadmissible because it could have been presented at the trial.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 09:33:PM
Yes. If they refuse to refer, the CCRC will produce a Provisional Statement of Reasons for these and then look at the less detailed grounds.

I think it is pretty much from his perspective make or break time as a CAT A prisoner at 64 years old.

I think he is heading towards the legacy of a potential MOJ, not something I imagine he relishes.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: BarefootDanC on April 17, 2025, 10:41:PM
I think it is pretty much from his perspective make or break time as a CAT A prisoner at 64 years old.

I think he is heading towards the legacy of a potential MOJ, not something I imagine he relishes.

Yes, if they decide against referring now, I think it would be very unlikely that his lawyer can persuade them to change their mind. Following that, his only recourse it to apply for a Judicial Review, which I am sure his lawyer will do, but once that fails, all he can then do is submit a further CCRC application!
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 10:51:PM
Yes, if they decide against referring now, I think it would be very unlikely that his lawyer can persuade them to change their mind. Following that, his only recourse it to apply for a Judicial Review, which I am sure his lawyer will do, but once that fails, all he can then do is submit a further CCRC application!

Even on the event of a successful referral it may take years for him to get to the COA.

Although we can't draw comparisons between individual cases. Colin Norris, the convicted serial killer nurse got a referral in 2001 and four years on still hasn't been to the COA.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2025, 10:56:PM
Even on the event of a successful referral it may take years for him to get to the COA.

Although we can't draw comparisons between individual cases. Colin Norris, the convicted serial killer nurse got a referral in 2001 and four years on still hasn't been to the COA.

I'm not sure what you mean. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43216615
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 10:58:PM
I'm not sure what you mean. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43216615

You compound my point, a referral in 2021. He is still in prison and hasn't had an appeal at the COA

It's 2025 Steve.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2025, 11:13:PM
You compound my point, a referral in 2021. He is still in prison and hasn't had an appeal at the COA

It's 2025 Steve.
Maybe they will declare it unsafe. It doesn't mean he's innocent.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 17, 2025, 11:21:PM
Maybe they will declare it unsafe. It doesn't mean he's innocent.

I was referring to the time element. JB may be in a similar position upon a successful ccrc referral.

Awaiting longingly.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: BarefootDanC on April 18, 2025, 09:44:AM
Even on the event of a successful referral it may take years for him to get to the COA.

Although we can't draw comparisons between individual cases. Colin Norris, the convicted serial killer nurse got a referral in 2001 and four years on still hasn't been to the COA.

Last time the CCRC referred Bambers case, the referral was in 2001 and his case was heard in November 2002, but the law was different then.

In 2002, once he had a referral he could submit as many other grounds as he wished, so he submitted a total of 16 grounds!

This time, he will want to do the same but he will need the court's permission, so this could mean lots of legal wrangling over permission for extra grounds.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 18, 2025, 04:29:PM
Last time the CCRC referred Bambers case, the referral was in 2001 and his case was heard in November 2002, but the law was different then.

In 2002, once he had a referral he could submit as many other grounds as he wished, so he submitted a total of 16 grounds!

This time, he will want to do the same but he will need the court's permission, so this could mean lots of legal wrangling over permission for extra grounds.

Yes as said, even on the event of successful referral an appeal could be two, three years away.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: lookout on April 19, 2025, 12:42:PM
Speaking of referrals, does anyone remember the Ray Gilbert case ? Ray was charged with the murder of a manager in a bookies in 1981. The man admitted he was a petty criminal but by no means a murderer. He served 36 years in prison and was released in 2016.
A team who support Ray have submitted a new case review report to the CCRC to hopefully clear his name.
Merseyside Police had declined to comment on receipt of the application.
A former senior coroners officer, now an independent death investgator stated that Merseyside Police had " mede some early errors " initially which would make Ray's conviction unsafe. CCRC had been unaware.


CCRC are very busy apparently.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 19, 2025, 01:25:PM
Speaking of referrals, does anyone remember the Ray Gilbert case ? Ray was charged with the murder of a manager in a bookies in 1981. The man admitted he was a petty criminal but by no means a murderer. He served 36 years in prison and was released in 2016.
A team who support Ray have submitted a new case review report to the CCRC to hopefully clear his name.
Merseyside Police had declined to comment on receipt of the application.
A former senior coroners officer, now an independent death investgator stated that Merseyside Police had " mede some early errors " initially which would make Ray's conviction unsafe. CCRC had been unaware.


CCRC are very busy apparently.
He came on the site lookout. It may have been during your absence. He left, possibly following some hard-hitting contributions by Q C Chevalier. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10638963/Ex-prisoner-jailed-36-years-one-biggest-miscarriages-justice-time.html
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: snow66! on April 19, 2025, 01:31:PM
He came on the site lookout. It may have been during your absence. He left, possibly following some hard-hitting contributions by Q C Chevalier. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10638963/Ex-prisoner-jailed-36-years-one-biggest-miscarriages-justice-time.html
He briefly posted on the Red forum too, Steve.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 19, 2025, 01:54:PM
Dr Martyn Ismails evidence post conviction is troubling against Jeremy. ( paragraph 518 coa 2002)
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 19, 2025, 01:56:PM
He briefly posted on the Red forum too, Steve.

I liked QC, good poster.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 19, 2025, 02:10:PM
Dr Martyn Ismails evidence post conviction is troubling against Jeremy. ( paragraph 518 coa 2002)
You mean, Jeremy posed his sister by pulling her by the legs postmortem..
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: snow66! on April 19, 2025, 02:25:PM
I liked QC, good poster.
Yes, QC had a big influence on the way I looked into a case, ILB.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 19, 2025, 02:31:PM
You mean, Jeremy posed his sister by pulling her by the legs postmortem..

I've the statement of Dr Ismail somewhere in my archives. I did post it on here at some point.

From memory yes something about a third party would have had to pull her legs and something about a bedside cabinet. He made a prediction of where her head would fall. I would have to re read the document.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ngb1066 on April 19, 2025, 06:17:PM
I liked QC, good poster.

He could be extremely offensive and insulting as well.  He was one of the very few to receive a permanent ban here.

Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: ILB on April 19, 2025, 06:21:PM
He could be extremely offensive and insulting as well.  He was one of the very few to receive a permanent ban here.

Yes I can remember him getting banned etc. It's a shame. Because I thought he put good posts across.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: lookout on April 19, 2025, 07:23:PM
He came on the site lookout. It may have been during your absence. He left, possibly following some hard-hitting contributions by Q C Chevalier. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10638963/Ex-prisoner-jailed-36-years-one-biggest-miscarriages-justice-time.html





Thankyou for that Steve. I wasn't quite sure that he came onto the site, but now I remember. One thing that does stick in my mind was the description of the way, knot-wise, that the victim's wrists had been tied because I'd said that the one who did this must have either studied knots or was a seaman because of the way he was tied. I'll be interested to see the outcome if it gets to the CoA.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: snow66! on April 19, 2025, 08:01:PM




Thankyou for that Steve. I wasn't quite sure that he came onto the site, but now I remember. One thing that does stick in my mind was the description of the way, knot-wise, that the victim's wrists had been tied because I'd said that the one who did this must have either studied knots or was a seaman because of the way he was tied. I'll be interested to see the outcome if it gets to the CoA.
Ray has actually just had a book published giving his side of the story, Lookout!
Its available on Amazon.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Steve_uk on April 19, 2025, 09:12:PM
Ray has actually just had a book published giving his side of the story, Lookout!
Its available on Amazon.
I didn't know he had written a book. There's a summary of the case here: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/i-served-36-years-murder-31435639

..and an older article here: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/aug/28/ukcrime.features11
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: snow66! on April 19, 2025, 09:58:PM
I didn't know he had written a book. There's a summary of the case here: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/i-served-36-years-murder-31435639

..and an older article here: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/aug/28/ukcrime.features11
Thanks Steve!
Yes its certainly a muddled case, maybe his book can clarify his actions.
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Curiosity on April 25, 2025, 02:00:PM
What on earth has happened to these promised, long-overdue submissions?  Have they got lost in the post to the CoA or is the CCRC frit of confessing they've been tossed in the waste bin?
Title: Re: 17th. April 2025 - A rather different D-Day.
Post by: Jane on April 25, 2025, 04:16:PM
What on earth has happened to these promised, long-overdue submissions?  Have they got lost in the post to the CoA or is the CCRC frit of confessing they've been tossed in the waste bin?


Was just about to ask the same question!..............but there are still 5 days left in April! Actually, only 3 if we discount the weekend!