Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:06:AM

Title: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:06:AM
AGREE:

Bamber could get a puncture - Phillip.

There would be insects on the ground - Yvonne.

He could be seen from distance - Phillip.

It was an open area - Phillip. 

Wilkinson cycled it in daylight - OS.

Wilkinson was not the same size as Bamber - OS.

No one saw him cycle it - OS.


DISAGREE:

There were BBQ's on route between mid night and 2am - ILB.

There were steep inclines - ILB.

There would be farmers farming between midnight and 2pm - ILB.

He would not know the way - Bamber.

He would need night vision googles - ILB.

There is no farm track from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane - ILB.

Bamber would have to carry his bike - Rob.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:11:AM
So there are things I agree with.

However things such as insects on the ground or maybe getting a puncture would not deter him.

It was an open area with good light.  So someone could see him from distance. But only if they were already outside. Which is very unlikely. The route passes no properties.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:18:AM
Understand why Wilkinson cycled the route in daylight.

He needed to make notes, check the terrain & distances.

Not sure how Wilkinson being a different size to Bamber matters. Unless Wilkinson was much fitter than a 24 year old Bamber & made a tough route sound easy.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 02:37:PM
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Tolleshunt+D'Arcy,+Maldon,+Essex+CM9/@51.7441638,0.7481108,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47d91dd4eb622635:0xb1a27ebbdcc45e75

There was nothing to stop JB using a windsurfer to travel to and from WHF.  I've found a youtube vid of a windsurfer on the River Blackwater.  It would take next to no time for JB to stroll down to the seawall where he could have hidden his windsurfer and it would take probably 5 mins to hook round to WHF - see map above.  Pages Lane is between Lauriston Farm and Rolls Farm.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_IVBsMB9k

He might have attached a lamping light to the boom head which he could then remove for the short walk from the river up the field and onto Pages Lane.

https://www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk/2015-rip-curl-flashbomb-hooded-55mm-wetsuit-black-wsu4of-p-11719.html

https://www.surfdome.com/Wetsuit_Boots-578/

It's called thinking out the box!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 02:43:PM
I do agree with supporters that no evidence was found on the bike & no tyre tracks were found.

I do not believe this means much as checks were done days later.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 03:23:PM
I am sorry but I am firmly in the camp of Bamber, De ath, and RB in rendering the route as ridiculous.

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 03:26:PM
Adam knows Bamber jumped in the motor and bombed it to WHF.

Using the sea wall mantra to goad.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 04:03:PM
The Sea Wall itself going in the direction towards WHF from GH seems to peter out after about 6 miles.

At the Backwater Estuary/Tollsbury Fleet. Although it may have become non negotiable to cycle before then.

Bamber's turn off was a long time before then.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 04:07:PM
It is lucky WHF was not in the other direction via The Sea Wall.

It goes past the Osea Leisure Park within 2 miles. Which is several hundred yards long.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 05:22:PM
B reg astra brand new 8 minutes

V the none sensical sea wall journey.

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 05:24:PM
Wilkinsons day time journey after Bamber was banged on remand points strongly to the fact they knew it couldn't be replicated when the journey or narrative they were conjuring up took place. Wilkinson knew he could only do it in the day.

Have to agree with Bamber that travelling over land in the middle of the night on a ladies bike is laughable and madness.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 06:01:PM
The nearest farm to The Sea Wall is on Joyce's Chase. Which looks to be around 150 metres from it.

Lauriston Farm is the second nearest but is nearly a mile from The Sea Wall.

There are no other properties near prior to Bamber's left turn.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 06:35:PM
If he really went at speed I reckon he could have drove it in six minutes.

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 08:15:PM
If he really went at speed I reckon he could have drove it in six minutes.

And wake up everyone in the process driving at breakneck speed  ::)

If he started his car up in Goldhanger at silly hours he run the risk of being observed driving away from his cottage and out of the village. Where would he park at WHF?  If he drove up Pages Lane he run the risk of waking up those in the farm cottages.  If he parked at the bottom of Pages Lane or on the B1023 then he run the risk of passers by seeing his car.  And yes others are out and about at silly hours: police patrol cars, emergency personnel, medics, etc.  It was the height of the holiday season with holiday makers departing and arriving from airports and ferry crossings.  All it would take is one person to observe his car and game over. 

If he cycled he had to move the bike along Head Street and Fish Street.  Same risks as above. 

If he walked and wore dark clothing and was able to camaflouge his person it would present little risk.  If someone spotted such a person they would be unable to identify. 

So he either walked or didn't leave WHF until the call from NB.  I reckon its the latter.

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 08:32:PM
And wake up everyone in the process driving at breakneck speed  ::)

If he started his car up in Goldhanger at silly hours he run the risk of being observed driving away from his cottage and out of the village. Where would he park at WHF?  If he drove up Pages Lane he run the risk of waking up those in the farm cottages.  If he parked at the bottom of Pages Lane or on the B1023 then he run the risk of passers by seeing his car.  And yes others are out and about at silly hours: police patrol cars, emergency personnel, medics, etc.  It was the height of the holiday season with holiday makers departing and arriving from airports and ferry crossings.  All it would take is one person to observe his car and game over. 

If he cycled he had to move the bike along Head Street and Fish Street.  Same risks as above. 

If he walked and wore dark clothing and was able to camaflouge his person it would present little risk.  If someone spotted such a person they would be unable to identify. 

So he either walked or didn't leave WHF until the call from NB.  I reckon its the latter.

Not one person in the history of mankind jumps out of bed at the sound of a car starting. When in a deep sleep.

I could literally drive to the Tesco garage now in a loud ford transit van and come back and not be witnessed by any neighbours or indeed anyone and this is half past 8 in 2025.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 08:35:PM
Feel like I am in a parallel universe.

A eight minute drive at 2am in 1985 in an Enid Blyton style village is a " risky affair "
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 08:37:PM
And wake up everyone in the process driving at breakneck speed  ::)

If he started his car up in Goldhanger at silly hours he run the risk of being observed driving away from his cottage and out of the village. Where would he park at WHF?  If he drove up Pages Lane he run the risk of waking up those in the farm cottages.  If he parked at the bottom of Pages Lane or on the B1023 then he run the risk of passers by seeing his car.  And yes others are out and about at silly hours: police patrol cars, emergency personnel, medics, etc.  It was the height of the holiday season with holiday makers departing and arriving from airports and ferry crossings.  All it would take is one person to observe his car and game over. 

If he cycled he had to move the bike along Head Street and Fish Street.  Same risks as above. 

If he walked and wore dark clothing and was able to camaflouge his person it would present little risk.  If someone spotted such a person they would be unable to identify. 

So he either walked or didn't leave WHF until the call from NB.  I reckon its the latter.

Park on Pages Lane and saunter down to the farmhouse. Perhaps put the cycle in the boot and once on Pages Lane disembarked on the bicycle down to the farmhouse.

I can't see him walking it, but he may have done. I don't think " it been too tiring " would have put him off doing it.

The Sea wall route going over land in the middle of the night is just ridiculous.

Reference the vicinity, it was completely dead. Bews remarked that Bambers astra was the only car he had seen as they'd been on patrol nearby on an industrial estate.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 08:44:PM
There is a chance of a patrol car pulling him over if they clock him. This is either driving, cycling, or walking.

They will believe he is out robbing or up to some kind of skullduggery.

Outward journey, he can lie and abort. Return journey he's fucked.

Visual wise if he encounters any pedestrians ( highly unlikely) there is a greater risk of an ID via walking or cycling.

Nobody will take much notice of a car going past if they are walking down a street. They'd had no reason to. They wouldn't believe that the person driving is on their way to massacre five people ( or on their way back from doing so) very doubtful a reg number would be memoriesd or even make of a car.

We're there industrial premises nearby? Who would be out and about in a small village in an affluent area in 1985 at that time? No pubs open, Maybe an insomnia sufferer walking his dog?

But logically speaking the only thing what would have clocked JB at that time would be foxes and cats.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 09:16:PM
Not one person in the history of mankind jumps out of bed at the sound of a car starting. When in a deep sleep.

I could literally drive to the Tesco garage now in a loud ford transit van and come back and not be witnessed by any neighbours or indeed anyone and this is half past 8 in 2025.

But people don't stay in a deep sleep all night.  They drift in and out of REM and RAM 1,2,3 and 4.  Only stages 3 and 4 are deep sleep.

But we are not talking about 8.30pm in 2025.  We are talking about circa 3am in 1985 in a very sleepy village in the height of summer where most people will have windows open. 

You can see the set up and how the cars are parked. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7458272,0.7561388,3a,75y,188.2h,69.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGcezE90HIbcGNNXpUf3CIQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D20.918409120337202%26panoid%3DGcezE90HIbcGNNXpUf3CIQ%26yaw%3D188.19893660007935!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:01:PM
The prosecution case is he cycled The Sea Wall. On the bike he stole 2 days earlier. Lots of advantages -

Good terrain.

Good vision.

Flat terrain.

Passing no properties.

4.2 miles.

He lived 5 minutes from it.

He grew up 5 minutes from it.

He worked 5 minutes from it.

Would not be physically tiring.

--------

Not sure what else he needed.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:12:PM
But people don't stay in a deep sleep all night.  They drift in and out of REM and RAM 1,2,3 and 4.  Only stages 3 and 4 are deep sleep.

But we are not talking about 8.30pm in 2025.  We are talking about circa 3am in 1985 in a very sleepy village in the height of summer where most people will have windows open. 

You can see the set up and how the cars are parked. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7458272,0.7561388,3a,75y,188.2h,69.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGcezE90HIbcGNNXpUf3CIQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D20.918409120337202%26panoid%3DGcezE90HIbcGNNXpUf3CIQ%26yaw%3D188.19893660007935!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Absolutely no risk of him getting clocked moving his astra out of head street. Let alone driving the route.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Rob_ on March 18, 2025, 10:15:PM
There is a chance of a patrol car pulling him over if they clock him. This is either driving, cycling, or walking.

They will believe he is out robbing or up to some kind of skullduggery.

Outward journey, he can lie and abort. Return journey he's fucked.

Visual wise if he encounters any pedestrians ( highly unlikely) there is a greater risk of an ID via walking or cycling.

Nobody will take much notice of a car going past if they are walking down a street. They'd had no reason to. They wouldn't believe that the person driving is on their way to massacre five people ( or on their way back from doing so) very doubtful a reg number would be memoriesd or even make of a car.

We're there industrial premises nearby? Who would be out and about in a small village in an affluent area in 1985 at that time? No pubs open, Maybe an insomnia sufferer walking his dog?

But logically speaking the only thing what would have clocked JB at that time would be foxes and cats.

Probably not, but on hearing 5 people have been killed just down the road they would go trotting into the local station and report it.

I am up at 3 am most days, it's surprising what you see sometimes. I am convinced Bamber would not drive.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:15:PM
The prosecution case is he cycled The Sea Wall. On the bike he stole 2 days earlier. Lots of advantages -

Good terrain.

Good vision.

Flat terrain.

Passing no properties.

4.2 miles.

He lived 5 minutes from it.

He grew up 5 minutes from it.

He worked 5 minutes from it.

Would not be physically tiring.

--------

Not sure what else he needed.

EP/ DPP got a DI to do the routes in October 85. A month after Bamber was remanded.

With 500 people interviewed in the locacility and not one single soul clocking Bamber they had to get creative.

Do you believe EP should have replicated a sea wall journey in the timeframe that Jeremy Bamber is supposed to have made the murder journey?
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:18:PM
Probably not, but on hearing 5 people have been killed just down the road they would go trotting into the local station and report it.


But without a reg number or even a description of the car make ( which you would not remember as you'd have no reason to) the information would be rendered useless.

However a visual ID walk or cycle, you could make a description ( brown hair, male, in his twenties)

If you made eye contact or even a fleeting glance you could make a positive ID parade.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:21:PM
The prosecution case is he cycled The Sea Wall. On the bike he stole 2 days earlier. Lots of advantages -

Good terrain.

Good vision.

Flat terrain.

Passing no properties.

4.2 miles.

He lived 5 minutes from it.

He grew up 5 minutes from it.

He worked 5 minutes from it.

Would not be physically tiring.

--------

Not sure what else he needed.

He says he has no idea of it

You can make assumptions, but you cannot disprove what he states in this regard. You will never be able to.

You know this.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:21:PM
EP/ DPP got a DI to do the routes in October 85. A month after Bamber was remanded.

With 500 people interviewed in the locacility and not one single soul clocking Bamber they had to get creative.

Do you believe EP should have replicated a sea wall journey in the timeframe that Jeremy Bamber is supposed to have made the murder journey?

Your first paragraph. And?

Second paragraph. Not that creative. Staring them in the face.

Third paragraph. Why?
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Rob_ on March 18, 2025, 10:22:PM
But without a reg number or even a description of the car make ( which you would not remember as you'd have no reason to) the information would be rendered useless.

However a visual ID walk or cycle, you could make a description ( brown hair, male, in his twenties)

If you made eye contact or even a fleeting glance you could make a positive ID parade.

The reg/make does not matter, they would say it was a small red car or something like that and Bamber is done for.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:22:PM
He says he has no idea of it

You can make assumptions, but you cannot disprove what he states in this regard. You will never be able to.

You know this.

He lived 5 minutes from it.

He grew up 5 minutes from it.

He worked 5 minutes from it.

You know this.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 10:24:PM
Absolutely no risk of him getting clocked moving his astra out of head street. Let alone driving the route.

Please stop being silly.  He had to start the car up and drive out of Goldhanger through narrow lanes with properties either side all of which probably had windows open given it was the height of summer.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 10:26:PM
The reg/make does not matter, they would say it was a small red car or something like that and Bamber is done for.

Exactly. 
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:28:PM
Your first paragraph. And?

Second paragraph. Not that creative. Staring them in the face.

Third paragraph. Why?

Your first paragraph. Scrambling around clutching at straws. If they thought the route viable it could have been put to Bamber in his September 85 interviews.

Your second paragraph. Very creative, reasonable doubt created on this fact alone.

Third paragraph. Because the accused is supposed to have made a suicidal journey in the pitch black over acres of farmland in the middle of the night on a ladies bike with no lighting whatsoever.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 10:29:PM
The prosecution case is he cycled The Sea Wall. On the bike he stole 2 days earlier. Lots of advantages -

Good terrain.

Good vision.

Flat terrain.

Passing no properties.

4.2 miles.

He lived 5 minutes from it.

He grew up 5 minutes from it.

He worked 5 minutes from it.

Would not be physically tiring.

--------

Not sure what else he needed.

He had to pass numerous properties along Head St and Fish St to access the sea wall. 
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:31:PM
The reg/make does not matter, they would say it was a small red car or something like that and Bamber is done for.

No not at all, a person going about their business which at that time walking their dog I can only assume as there was no other reason for them in the early hours of 85 to be out and about would not give a second thought about a passing car.

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:32:PM
Your first paragraph. Scrambling around clutching at straws. If they thought the route viable it could have been put to Bamber in his September 85 interviews.

Your second paragraph. Very creative, reasonable doubt created on this fact alone.

Third paragraph. Because the accused is supposed to have made a suicidal journey in the pitch black over acres of farmland in the middle of the night on a ladies bike with no lighting whatsoever.

The police did discuss the bike in his police interviews.

Don't think they had to be creative. Julie's 8/9/85 WS said he planned to cycle. The Sea Wall would be known to EP.

Don't believe cycling on good flat terrain is suicidal.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:33:PM
Please stop being silly.  He had to start the car up and drive out of Goldhanger through narrow lanes with properties either side all of which probably had windows open given it was the height of summer.

You stop being silly It was 2am in 1985. To suggest people would be window watching or waking up to the ignition on a car starting and driving away is absolutely Ludicrous.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:33:PM
He had to pass numerous properties along Head St and Fish St to access the sea wall.

He would exit out of his back garden.

Then across one field.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Rob_ on March 18, 2025, 10:34:PM
No not at all, a person going about their business which at that time walking their dog I can only assume as there was no other reason for them in the early hours of 85 to be out and about would not give a second thought about a passing car.

At 3 in the morning if I see someone walking / driving I immediately think who is that?

We have different views that's ok.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:34:PM
By the logic being purported there would be no such thing as a successfull car theft in the early hours. ( when lots take place)

Every homeowner would leap out of bed and bomb downstairs and catch the thief in action.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:35:PM
He had to pass numerous properties along Head St and Fish St to access the sea wall.

Thistly Close also did not exist in 1985.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:36:PM
At 3 in the morning if I see someone walking / driving I immediately think who is that?

We have different views that's ok.

Walking yes because you'd face to face clock them perhaps.

Yes we have different views. It's ok
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:37:PM
The police did discuss the bike in his police interviews.

Don't think they had to be creative. Julie's 8/9/85 WS said he planned to cycle. The Sea Wall would be known to EP.

Don't believe cycling on good flat terrain is suicidal.

Ludicrous unfeasible journey but clever narrative fair play
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:39:PM
Ludicrous unfeasible journey but clever narrative fair play

Have to go by Wilkinson's WS - good, flat terrain.

You had a bike & were in the area last year. But knew his WS was correct.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:44:PM
I don't believe the defence challenged the journey. It would just mean them digging a hole for themselves. Ditto the windows.

They focused more on Julie's & SB's minor cheque book fraud. Which was about 2 years earlier.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 10:44:PM
You stop being silly It was 2am in 1985. To suggest people would be window watching or waking up to the ignition on a car starting and driving away is absolutely Ludicrous.

No one said anything about window watching.  People get disturbed and get up for all sorts of reasons. 
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:47:PM
No one said anything about window watching.  People get disturbed and get up for all sorts of reasons.

And people also sleep soundly.

I reckon my odds are good and appreciate people will disagree for the sake of argument.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:49:PM
Have to go by Wilkinson's WS - good, flat terrain.

You had a bike & were in the area last year. But knew his WS was correct.

Can't compare the two, night and day.

Nobody can disprove Bambers claim of " him having no idea "

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 10:49:PM
He would exit out of his back garden.

Then across one field.

But could still be seen from the rear of the properties along Head St and Fish St.  The problem is the lower risk routes are actually higher risk if observed.  Ie if observed how does he explain walking across the fields to the rear of his property pushing a bike!
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:52:PM
But could still be seen from the rear of the properties along Head St and Fish St.  The problem is the lower risk routes are actually higher risk if observed.  Ie if observed how does he explain walking across the fields to the rear of his property pushing a bike!

Seen through trees and bushes outside peoples back gardens at 2am?

He would be prepared to take that risk.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:54:PM
Can't compare the two, night and day.

Nobody can disprove Bambers claim of " him having no idea "

Did he testify he didn't know the route?

Probably better he didn't. An open goal for the prosecution.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:54:PM
Seen through trees and bushes outside peoples back gardens at 2am?

He would be prepared to take that risk.

Getting all just too much Hollywood movie for me.

All the time a B reg 85 astra on your driveway.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:54:PM
Did he testify he didn't know the route?

Probably better he didn't. An open goal for the prosecution.

He wasn't asked in cross or direct.

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 18, 2025, 10:56:PM
And people also sleep soundly.

I reckon my odds are good and appreciate people will disagree for the sake of argument.

I have already explained people don't sleep soundly all night and some people will be up and about.  I have already pointed out it was the height of the holiday season.  People arriving home and departing for early morning flights/ferries.  That's just one group of people that will be out and about.  Think about the patrol car that was in the area...patrolling...
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 10:57:PM
Getting all just too much Hollywood movie for me.

All the time a B reg 85 astra on your driveway.

Cycling from where he lived to where he worked. Millions do it every day.

Nothing Hollywood about it. But a big potential reward.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:57:PM
Did he testify he didn't know the route?

Probably better he didn't. An open goal for the prosecution.

From the age of 8 he was at greashams

Back for school holidays

Was driving and abroad from his teen years.

He was a car guy, no reason for him to know the route.

Probably took the dog on the field behind bourtree
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 10:59:PM
Cycling from where he lived to where he worked. Millions do it every day.

Cycling over land in the pitch black in the middle of the night in a wetsuit?

It's bollocks.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:01:PM
He wasn't asked in cross or direct.

A good idea of the defence to keep his journey low profile. It was such a dream journey for him.

The judge did talk about the bike in his summing up.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 11:01:PM
I have already explained people don't sleep soundly all night and some people will be up and about.  I have already pointed out it was the height of the holiday season.  People arriving home and departing for early morning flights/ferries.  That's just one group of people that will be out and about.  Think about the patrol car that was in the area...patrolling...

Flights and ferries?

Even nevill said local police was dad's army.

It was an affluent area, I'm not sure how many patrol cars were out and about that very night. Bews said Bambers car was the only one they had seen in that time period.

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:03:PM
Cycling over land in the pitch black in the middle of the night in a wetsuit?

It's bollocks.

There was good light as it was an open area.

GH has no street lighting.

Agree he cycled over land.

What he wore was up to him.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 11:03:PM
A good idea of the defence to keep his journey low profile. It was such a dream journey for him.

The judge did talk about the bike in his summing up.

Think they had bigger fish to fry such as his sisters blood in the sound moderator.

The journey is good talk for forum fodder
 Nothing can seriously go in his benefit, he could walk, he could cycle he could drive. Between 10pm and 3.26am he is a lone man in cottage with nobody to give him an alibi.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 11:04:PM
There was good light as it was an open area.

GH has no street lighting.

Agree he cycled over land.

What he wore was up to him.

I'm with Jez " madness laughable "
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:06:PM
From the age of 8 he was at greashams

Back for school holidays

Was driving and abroad from his teen years.

He was a car guy, no reason for him to know the route.

Probably took the dog on the field behind bourtree

Up to 8 years old & school holidays. Lots of time.

Living 5 minutes from The Sea Wall.

Farming the land.

May have done a trial run the night before as said by Julie. Jog the memory.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:07:PM
I'm with Jez " madness laughable "

We know you are with Jez.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 11:08:PM
We know you are with Jez.

I'm man enough to admit certain aspects of the case go to Bambers detriment. But in this instance I think it's bollocks.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 11:11:PM
We know you are with Jez.

You are not as guilter as you make out. You know there is a chance of Bamber being innocent otherwise you wouldn't be here.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:12:PM
I'm man enough to admit certain aspects of the case go to Bambers detriment. But in this instance I think it's bollocks.

EP and the prosecution disagree with you.

But Jez says he didn't know a short route 5 mins from where he lived, worked & grew up. 
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:13:PM
You are not as guilter as you make out. You know there is a chance of Bamber being innocent otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Zero chance.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 18, 2025, 11:13:PM
EP and the prosecution disagree with you.

But Jez says he didn't know a short route 5 mins from where he lived, worked & grew up.

Do you believe shelia knew the route?

Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:19:PM
Do you believe shelia knew the route?

Be careful

Of course. It was a 5 minute walk from WHF.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:21:PM
Julie did testify Bamber planned to cycle The Sea Wall. On the bike he stole.

The defence could have prompted Bamber to deny he knew the route. But the prosecution would have then ripped him to shreads.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 18, 2025, 11:27:PM
For me it's always been straight forward how he travelled. Ditto for EP & the prosecution.

But forums will produce a couple of people who won't accept it. That is fine.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2025, 11:52:AM
I don't believe Bamber would be unaware of a public cycle path as huge as The Sea Wall.

It was 5 minutes from where he lived, farmed & grew up. It ran between GH & WHF.

But appreciate when asked decades later he will say 'Uh, a secret passage way?'
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2025, 12:06:PM
Appreciate why decades later he's going to say he did not know the route.

However it was the right decision not to claim this at trial.

He would be aware of The Sea Wall alongside Osea Caravan Park. He worked there!
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: ILB on March 19, 2025, 12:10:PM
Jez denies knowing the route.

You just have to accept it.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2025, 06:34:PM
And wake up everyone in the process driving at breakneck speed  ::)

If he started his car up in Goldhanger at silly hours he run the risk of being observed driving away from his cottage and out of the village. Where would he park at WHF?  If he drove up Pages Lane he run the risk of waking up those in the farm cottages.  If he parked at the bottom of Pages Lane or on the B1023 then he run the risk of passers by seeing his car.  And yes others are out and about at silly hours: police patrol cars, emergency personnel, medics, etc.  It was the height of the holiday season with holiday makers departing and arriving from airports and ferry crossings.  All it would take is one person to observe his car and game over. 

If he cycled he had to move the bike along Head Street and Fish Street.  Same risks as above. 

If he walked and wore dark clothing and was able to camaflouge his person it would present little risk.  If someone spotted such a person they would be unable to identify. 

So he either walked or didn't leave WHF until the call from NB.  I reckon its the latter
.
I was agreeing with you until the last part. You can't surely believe Nevill would rely on someone whom he suspected was trying to kill him, even in extremis.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2025, 07:03:PM
Walking would take too long and be too tiring.

Wilkinson said he can't walk cross country in a direct line. Too many obstacles.

No point walking the BHF or Sea Wall routes when he can cycle.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2025, 07:08:PM
Walking would take too long and be too tiring.

Wilkinson said he can't walk cross country in a direct line. Too many obstacles.

No point walking the BHF or Sea Wall routes when he can cycle.
But he knew the layout of the land. I don't think we'll ever know.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2025, 07:11:PM
Cycling 4.2 miles is not tiring. I have done it enough times. However usually don't have the luxuary of it being 100% on flat terrain with no traffic.

He needed to keep his energy levels high. Both before & after the massacre.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2025, 07:13:PM
But he knew the layout of the land. I don't think we'll ever know.

So he would know how tough it would be.

It is 2.4 miles in a direct line. Crossing 13 fields.

However suspect it would be zig zagging over 3 miles across up to 20 fields.
Title: Re: My agreements/disagreements with supporters. Re: The Sea Wall route::
Post by: Cambridgecutie on March 20, 2025, 07:11:AM
I was agreeing with you until the last part. You can't surely believe Nevill would rely on someone whom he suspected was trying to kill him, even in extremis.

If NB thought JB was trying to kill him it begs the question why he was so lax with firearms security.  In any event NB never said he thought JB was trying to kill him.  We are told by RWB and BW that NB made a couple of comments which have been twisted to imply he was referencing JB.

The soc evidence by way of blood stains/lack of, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks supports NB phoning JB by virtue of the fact the shooter was in the main bedroom inflicting gunshot wounds on June when NB came upstairs.  If NB was not downstairs phoning JB what was he doing?