Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: ILB on March 26, 2024, 10:24:AM
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I believe a carbon copy audible of what is written
https://youtu.be/NX3lLfl6VCI?si=QG_ZA6nLEXeBuTly
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I believe a carbon copy audible of what is written
https://youtu.be/NX3lLfl6VCI?si=QG_ZA6nLEXeBuTly
The area she's talking about is NOWHERE near to where JB would have been to reach WHF. It's entirely in the opposite direction. She's spun a tale around Maldon's Royal Charter, local gossip -why, in 1983/4 would there have been such?- and vindictiveness.
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The area she's talking about is NOWHERE near to where JB would have been to reach WHF. It's entirely in the opposite direction. She's spun a tale around Maldon's Royal Charter, local gossip -why, in 1983/4 would there have been such?- and vindictiveness.
As said it is a carbon copy of what is on the website.
Reiterating her knowledge of the sea wall and her belief that Jeremy Bamber would have found it impossible.
And no mention of him going past osea.
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Any night fishing would be at the Osea Leisure Park. That is where the caravans were situated. There is a river near by.
No point travelling 1.4 - over 5 miles away and overlapping Bamber's route.
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Any night fishing would be at the Osea Leisure Park. That is where the caravans were situated. There is a river near by.
No point travelling 1.4 - over 5 miles away and overlapping Bamber's route.
Night fishing is just one narrative she uses
She also mentions people would sit and talk by the sea wall all night
BD has to be taken as gospel until proved to be a liar
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Night fishing is just one narrative she uses
She also mentions people would sit and talk by the sea wall all night
BD has to be taken as gospel until proved to be a liar
Why would people from Osea Leisure Park travel 1.4 - over 5 miles away to sit & talk on The Sea Wall. At 2am?
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Why would people from Osea Leisure Park travel 1.4 - over 5 miles away to sit & talk on The Sea Wall. At 2am?
Stop mentioning osea
She is retierating her knowledge of Jez being unable to make the journey from Goldhanger to WHF via the sea wall
You know this
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As said it is a carbon copy of what is on the website.
Reiterating her knowledge of the sea wall and her belief that Jeremy Bamber would have found it impossible.
And no mention of him going past osea.
I don't think Mrs D. knew any more about the sea wall that that which extended to the boundries of Osea Camp. There was no need for JB to have been anywhere near Osea Camp. Why, with an already difficult cycle ride facing him, would he have chosen to ride a couple? of miles out of his way, in the wrong direction, only to then turn round and go over the same ground, when he could have gone straight to his destination from the start? The irony is, had he cycled towards Osea Camp, there'd have been a far greater risk of being seen by late night revellers/anglers who were resident at the camp.
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Stop mentioning osea
She is retierating her knowledge of Jez being unable to make the journey from Goldhanger to WHF via the sea wall
You know this
Her article is about the Osea Leisure Park.
Why would people between 1.4 - over 5 miles from Bamber's route encroach his route to 'sit and talk'. At 2am?
If you have not got an answer just say you will contact her for answers.
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You keep mentioning osea
She just had a caravan there
Nothing to do with her description of the entire sea wall
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I don't think Mrs D. knew any more about the sea wall that that which extended to the boundries of Osea Camp. There was no need for JB to have been anywhere near Osea Camp. Why, with an already difficult cycle ride facing him, would he have chosen to ride a couple? of miles out of his way, in the wrong direction, only to then turn round and go over the same ground, when he could have gone straight to his destination from the start? The irony is, had he cycled towards Osea Camp, there'd have been a far greater risk of being seen by late night revellers/anglers who were resident at the camp.
Don't give ILB ideas.
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Stop mentioning osea
She is retierating her knowledge of Jez being unable to make the journey from Goldhanger to WHF via the sea wall
You know this
Unless she'd tried it, how would she know, bearing in mind she wasn't local to the area?
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You keep mentioning osea
She just had a caravan there
Nothing to do with her description of the entire sea wall
If she lived in Basildon and had a caravan between 1.4 - over 5 miles from Bamber's route, why would she know what it was like at 2am?
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Unless she'd tried it, how would she know, bearing in mind she wasn't local to the area?
She states she has intimate knowledge of the sea wall.
Mentioning osea is just diverting
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If she lived in Basildon and had a caravan between 1.4 - over 5 miles from Bamber's route, why would she know what it was like at 2am?
From experience obviously
She describes it as being populated
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Guilters would argue a purple door was yellow!
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From experience obviously
She describes it as being populated
About as populated at 2am as an 'Out of Order' lift.
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About as populated at 2am as an 'Out of Order' lift.
Not according to de'ath
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She states she has intimate knowledge of the sea wall.
Mentioning osea is just diverting
She probably does have intimate knowledge of the sea wall within the parameters of the camp. Even beyond it, towards Heybridge Basin, there are several watering holes, as there is at Goldhanger, but beyond that there's nothing until Tollesbury.............and one hell of a long walk back.
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Guilters would argue a purple door was yellow!
Just don't see why people would travel 1.4 - over 5 miles to sit, talk or fish. At 2am.
They could do that at Osea Leisure Park.
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She probably does have intimate knowledge of the sea wall within the parameters of the camp. Even beyond it, towards Heybridge Basin, there are several watering holes, as there is at Goldhanger, but beyond that there's nothing until Tollesbury.............and one hell of a long walk back.
In fairness that's making assumptions
She seems adamant he couldn't make the journey
She knew where he lived and what the journey would have entailed
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She probably does have intimate knowledge of the sea wall within the parameters of the camp. Even beyond it, towards Heybridge Basin, there are several watering holes, as there is at Goldhanger, but beyond that there's nothing until Tollesbury.............and one hell of a long walk back.
Watering holes? Pubs?
Are you insinuating that BD was a heavy drinker ?
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Watering holes? Pubs?
Are you insinuating that BD was a heavy drinker ?
Absolutely not. What's wrong with a glass of lager shandy on a hot day after a long walk?
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She may have made an innocent mistake.
She saw people sitting, talking even fishing after sunset at the Osea Leisure Park. Then generalised this to include the whole Sea Wall.
If she's going to put up videos and articles she can't afford to make such mistakes.
Gullible supporters will be up it like a rat up a drain pipe. ILB is now saying Bamber's route would be heavily populated. At 2am!
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She probably does have intimate knowledge of the sea wall within the parameters of the camp. Even beyond it, towards Heybridge Basin, there are several watering holes, as there is at Goldhanger, but beyond that there's nothing until Tollesbury.............and one hell of a long walk back.
Yes there are certainly no all night cafes or bars on Bamber's Sea Wall section.
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In fairness that's making assumptions
She seems adamant he couldn't make the journey
She knew where he lived and what the journey would have entailed
Let's be honest. She could say what she wanted. What did she actually say that had any value? It was simply her opinion. She never claimed to have done that walk. She may have known where he lived but she never claimed to have been there or seen it. I think the only thing of value, in what she said, is that it was useful, as a platform, to have a dig at the family over something which had nothing to don with murders.
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Let's be honest. She could say what she wanted. What did she actually say that had any value? It was simply her opinion. She never claimed to have done that walk. She may have known where he lived but she never claimed to have been there or seen it. I think the only thing of value, in what she said, is that it was useful, as a platform, to have a dig at the family over something which had nothing to don with murders.
She never claimed not to either.
She wouldn't have said he couldn't have made the journey or mentioned the population of the wall if she believed he could have done the journey.
I will ask her
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She may have made an innocent mistake.
She saw people sitting, talking even fishing after sunset at the Osea Leisure Park. Then generalised this to include the whole Sea Wall.
If she's going to put up videos and articles she can't afford to make such mistakes.
Gullible supporters will be up it like a rat up a drain pipe. ILB is now saying Bamber's route would be heavily populated. At 2am!
Gullible haha, all opinions are my own.
BD is a reliable source.
Again you are making an assumption.
I will try to contact BD for comment. Assuming she is on social media
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Absolutely not. What's wrong with a glass of lager shandy on a hot day after a long walk?
Just only having one glass 😆
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She never claimed not to either.
She wouldn't have said he couldn't have made the journey or mentioned the population of the wall if she believed he could have done the journey.
I will ask her
She would say that because she is a supporter.
Please ask her why she would be on Bamber's cycle route of the Sea Wall at 2am.
Thank you.
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She would say that because she is a supporter.
Please ask her why she would be on Bamber's cycle route of the Sea Wall at 2am.
Thank you.
So what if she's a supporter.
I will ask her a variety of questions I see fit
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Very disrespectful of you to dismiss her as " one of Bambers old dears'
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Gullible haha, all opinions are my own.
BD is a reliable source.
Again you are making an assumption.
I will try to contact BD for comment. Assuming she is on social media
Not sure why you're so convinced of her reliability.
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Not sure why you're so convinced of her reliability.
A witness of truth
With intimate knowledge.
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A witness of truth
With intimate knowledge.
Unlike Gunfire Graffiti, the Eaton's/Boutflours, EP, authors, journalists, farm workers, residents.
BD had a caravan 1.4 - over 5 miles away. That negates everyone else.
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Not sure why you're so convinced of her reliability.
The Sea Wall is now heavily populated.
Everyone with there night vision googles as no one can see past there nose in outside darkness.
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Someone from Head, Fish or Church Street should have told the council to put up street lighting.
People outside will be crashing into walls & hedges from 4pm onwards in winter.
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A witness of truth
With intimate knowledge.
Her opinion of someone she hardly knew. Intimate knowledge of what? Only what she claims to have.
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Unlike Gunfire Graffiti, the Eaton's/Boutflours, EP, authors, journalists, farm workers, residents.
BD had a caravan 1.4 - over 5 miles away. That negates everyone else.
GG used night vision goggles.
The relatives are biased.
Ditto police
Authors? Which one?
Journalist which one?
Residents which one?
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De'ath is a witness of truth.
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De'ath is a witness of truth.
Why are you so certain?
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Why are you so certain?
Why aren't you ?
If it was to the detriment of Bamber it would be celebrated.
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GG used night vision goggles.
The relatives are biased.
Ditto police
Authors? Which one?
Journalist which one?
Residents which one?
Please don't lie. Gunfire Graffiti did not wear night googles. He used the outside ambiant light.
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ILB gets carried away with his support.
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ILB gets carried away with his support.
I don't support him.
I afford him fairness
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Please don't lie. Gunfire Graffiti did not wear night googles. He used the outside ambiant light.
He wore night vision goggles
A cycling accessory
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He wore night vision goggles
A cycling accessory
Please don't say that. You know he didn't.
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Please don't say that. You know he didn't.
He says it himself
I'm not going over it again
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In any event de'ath has put the sea wall theory to bed
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In any event de'ath has put the sea wall theory to bed
Please don't say that.
You know the Osea Leisure Park is between 1.4 - over 5 miles from Bamber's route.
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Please don't say that.
You know the Osea Leisure Park is between 1.4 - over 5 miles from Bamber's route.
De'ath has intimate knowledge of the sea wall. Including from Bambers route by her own words.
Knowledge that has nothing to do with her having a van at osea.
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De'ath has intimate knowledge of the sea wall. Including from Bambers route by her own words.
Knowledge that has nothing to do with her having a van at osea.
Please don't lie.
She is a supporter who had a caravan between 1.4 - over 5 miles from Bambers route.
She also lived in Basildon.
No reason she would ever visit Bamber's route at 2am.
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He says it himself
I'm not going over it again
Please don't lie.
He replicated Bamber's night time Sea Wall cycle ride.
He said 'the available ambient light made it so easy to see'.
This would not be surprising as it looks like most of the route is open land.
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Hope Barbara D'eath responds to ILB's letter.
Need to know if she was ever on Bamber's route at 2am. If 'yes' then 'why'.
Saying she lived in Basildon & had a caravan between 1.4 - over 5 miles away from the route, would not be sufficient.
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There is no source de'ath lived in Basildon
De'ath had intimate knowledge of the sea wall and has correctly rendered Bambers potential sea wall journey as " laughable, " and " unrealistic "
De"ath is being regarded as unreliable due to " having a caravan deal gone wrong with the relatives "
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Just don't understand why Adam doesn't say.
" In honesty I admit it's stupid I suggested the sea wall when the guy had a car and could complete the journey in a round trip in sixteen minutes "
In and out in the astra, badda boom badda by
Uneven ground
Populated
Complete darkness
De'ath testimony
Night vision goggles
Ladies bike
No artificial light
No bike light
Cumbersome
Time consuming
Unrealistic
Could go on
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There is no source de'ath lived in Basildon
De'ath had intimate knowledge of the sea wall and has correctly rendered Bambers potential sea wall journey as " laughable, " and " unrealistic "
De"ath is being regarded as unreliable due to " having a caravan deal gone wrong with the relatives "
Jane suggested she lived in Basildon yesterday.
Hope she explains the reasons why.
Obviously BD would live a long way away. You don't put your caravan 10 minutes from where you live!
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Thinking about CAL's proposed route. Reasons he may risk it -
There was no street lighting. People outside less likely to see him.
Anyone that did see him, may not be a problem. It was going to be murder/suicide.
It was 2am.
It was Tuesday.
The 2 pubs he passed closed at 11pm in the 80's.
Jane said there were no properties on Maldon Road in 1985.
He knew the route as drove it every day.
It was good terrain.
He could avoid cars on Maldon Road.
He could check properties for security cameras beforehand.
He could cycle through Head & Church Street in less than 2 minutes if cycling quickly.
A bike is silent.
It is quicker than cycling the Sea Wall.
He could avoid a lot of Church Street by cycling across the church & attached fields.
Unlikely anyone able to see Bamber through windows when there is no street lighting.
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So really 4 possible routes.
Entering the Sea Wall via his back garden & fields is the only one that passes no properties.
However accept he may have cycled one of the other routes & not been seen.
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Obviously he wouldn't do that when he had a car.
Too much pissing around.
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Hope Barbara D'eath responds to ILB's letter.
Need to know if she was ever on Bamber's route at 2am. If 'yes' then 'why'.
Saying she lived in Basildon & had a caravan between 1.4 - over 5 miles away from the route, would not be sufficient.
Why should she be ?
What business is it of yours what she does ?
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So really 4 possible routes.
Entering the Sea Wall via his back garden & fields is the only one that passes no properties.
However accept he may have cycled one of the other routes & not been seen.
You know de'ath has debunked the sea wall ;D
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Why should she be ?
What business is it of yours what she does ?
As you know she is saying Bamber couldn't have cycled the prosecutions Sea Wall route.
Obviously living miles away and having a caravan miles away are not sufficient reasons to say this.
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No street lighting would also mean Bamber would not be identified. If someone was outside and saw a cyclist.
They could just say I saw someone cycling . If they remembered & were asked. They would also have to remember the date.
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As you know she is saying Bamber couldn't have cycled the prosecutions Sea Wall route.
Obviously living miles away and having a caravan miles away are not sufficient reasons to say this.
What difference does her not living on it mean?
Bamber didn't live on it, nobody did.
She has intimate knowledge of the entire sea wall, knows It would be populated and knows Bamber couldn't make the journey there.
Why would she lie ?
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A witness of truth
A solid witness
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What difference does her not living on it mean?
Bamber didn't live on it, nobody did.
She has intimate knowledge of the entire sea wall, knows It would be populated and knows Bamber couldn't make the journey there.
Why would she lie ?
Obviously if she lived miles away & had a caravan miles away, she would never have visited Bamber's route. Espescially at 2am!
Bamber lived, worked, grew up & planned the massacre yards from The Sea Wall.
Please keep on top of things.
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Obviously if she lived miles away & had a caravan miles away, she would never have visited Bamber's route. Espescially at 2am!
Bamber lived, worked, grew up & planned the massacre yards from The Sea Wall.
Please keep on top of things.
I thought she was from the East End Of London, she classes herself as an Outsider?
I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site. Our family spent many weekends and holidays in Essex away from our home in the East End of London. Having read as much as possible about Jeremy I feel there have been a few misconceptions around the case and about Jeremy and I’d like to put a few points forward.
As an outsider to this rural part of Essex,
Our Catchtment area for the Holiday Parks i worked on was East End of London, Braintree, Basildon, Chelmsford ETC, Basildon itself was a very good catchment area?
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There is no source de'ath lived in Basildon
De'ath had intimate knowledge of the sea wall and has correctly rendered Bambers potential sea wall journey as " laughable, " and " unrealistic "
De"ath is being regarded as unreliable due to " having a caravan deal gone wrong with the relatives "
She said, in the clip, that she lived in the East End of London -apologies to Adam!- so even less likely to have the "intimate knowledge of........." that you're so certain she has.
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She said, in the clip, that she lived in the East End of London -apologies to Adam!- so even less likely to have the "intimate knowledge of........." that you're so certain she has.
She lives more north London now Jane
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She lives more north London now Jane
Ta for that HB.
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She said, in the clip, that she lived in the East End of London -apologies to Adam!- so even less likely to have the "intimate knowledge of........." that you're so certain she has.
I am from Sheffield. I was born there.
I have intimate knowledge of solihull and certain parts of south London having lived in both places.
I don't get what you are saying? Are you insinuating where BD lived effects her knowledge of the sea wall in it's eniterity ?
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Obviously if she lived miles away & had a caravan miles away, she would never have visited Bamber's route. Espescially at 2am!
Bamber lived, worked, grew up & planned the massacre yards from The Sea Wall.
Please keep on top of things.
That doesn't make sense.
Bamber living nearby does not underestimate BD knowledge
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I am from Sheffield. I was born there.
I have intimate knowledge of solihull and certain parts of south London having lived in both places.
I don't get what you are saying? Are you insinuating where BD lived effects her knowledge of the sea wall in it's eniterity ?
I don't think BD lived on the section of the Sea Wall Bamber cycled. Or near it.
She had a caravan 1.4 - 5 miles away from it.
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I don't think BD lived on the section of the Sea Wall Bamber cycled. Or near it.
She had a caravan 1.4 - 5 miles away from it.
BD stated intimate knowledge of Bambers route
The entire sea wall
Osea
Maldon
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If this was a guilter giving a source it would be celebrated
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BD stated intimate knowledge of Bambers route
The entire sea wall
Osea
Maldon
Best you write to her. Find out how often she was on Bamber's route section of The Sea Wall at 2am.
Obviously the BBQ's she mentioned would be within the confines of the Osea Leisure centre where she had a caravan. Not 5 miles away.
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BD stated intimate knowledge of Bambers route
The entire sea wall
Osea
Maldon
The"entire sea wall" isn't Osea to Maldon. It's Maldon to Tollesbury.
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If this was a guilter giving a source it would be celebrated
It would be stripped to nothing by supporters. In this instance, they'd be correct in questioning its veracity.
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It would be stripped to nothing by supporters. In this instance, they'd be correct in questioning its veracity.
You haven't stripped anything.
You have made the assumption that just because BD doesn't live local she is lying.
Which is ludicrous.
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You haven't stripped anything.
You have made the assumption that just because BD doesn't live local she is lying.
Which is ludicrous.
And you're NOT making the assumption that she knows, "intimately", ie, has walked every inch of the sea wall from Maldon to Tollesbury?
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And you're NOT making the assumption that she knows, "intimately", ie, has walked every inch of the sea wall from Maldon to Tollesbury?
I believe she has intimate knowledge of the route being populated which is relevant in this case. Goldhanger to d'arcy
But of course a caravan deal gone wrong somehow overrides that
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I believe she has intimate knowledge of the route being populated which is relevant in this case. Goldhanger to d'arcy
But of course a caravan deal gone wrong somehow overrides that
That would necessitate journeying from Osea to Goldhanger. Perhaps she went by bike? If she could, why couldn't he? Ooops! I forgot, He wasn't going to Osea. The same would apply to her getting to D'Arcy from Goldhanger! One way or the other, if she knew it "intimately" she'd have needed to experience it for herself.
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That would necessitate journeying from Osea to Goldhanger. Perhaps she went by bike? If she could, why couldn't he? Ooops! I forgot, He wasn't going to Osea. The same would apply to her getting to D'Arcy from Goldhanger! One way or the other, if she knew it "intimately" she'd have needed to experience it for herself.
Which she might have done, she doesn't have had to cycled it, she refers to the particular point been populated. She may have been on that route plenty of times even been there overnight as she attests to people doing so.
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Which she might have done, she doesn't have had to cycled it, she refers to the particular point been populated. She may have been on that route plenty of times even been there overnight as she attests to people doing so.
Ah! But WHICH point, in particular, is she claiming as being "populated"? And unless she has been there at or around the time that JB is estimated to have used it, how would she know? The place and time she claims to have "intimate" knowledge of, unless it's the exact route JB is claimed to have used, carries no weight as evidence.
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Ah! But WHICH point, in particular, is she claiming as being "populated"? And unless she has been there at or around the time that JB is estimated to have used it, how would she know? The place and time she claims to have "intimate" knowledge of, unless it's the exact route JB is claimed to have used, carries no weight as evidence.
It's the DPP who claimed he used a route to avoid the main roads ergo the sea wall.
De'ath claims she has knowledge of the vicinity and the route he would have took. She describes it as being " overnightly populated which means it's not feasible as he would have been seen.
From my personal perspective the sea wall has always been a none starter, cumbersome, unpractical, time consuming, no lighting. Absolutely ridiculous.
De'ath has just simply strengthened that belief of mine.
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It's the DPP who claimed he used a route to avoid the main roads ergo the sea wall.
De'ath claims she has knowledge of the vicinity and the route he would have took. She describes it as being " overnightly populated which means it's not feasible as he would have been seen.
From my personal perspective the sea wall has always been a none starter, cumbersome, unpractical, time consuming, no lighting. Absolutely ridiculous.
De'ath has just simply strengthened that belief of mine.
Well, we might be edging closer to singing of the same page, here!
From my own perspective, I don't actually give two figs about the sea wall as a possibility. It was claimed, by a poster, several years back, that such wasn't possible because at a strategic point, it was undergoing repairs, but there has been no verification one way or another.
Had I been making such a journey, a car would have been my transport of choice. However, I'm not, nor ever have been, JB.
It seems to me that, on which ever side of the fence one sits, BD's claim, unless it's taken on face value, without questioning, doesn't stand up to scrutiny. She buffers what little she has to say about JB -basically that he was shy and well mannered- by giving a history of Maldon going back to the Middle Ages, and ending with a diatribe of grudges about how the family were trying to "gentrify" the site, resulting in them either having to move their van to the back, or remove it completely. Every camp site I've looked at, does the same. It's called progress.
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Well, we might be edging closer to singing of the same page, here!
From my own perspective, I don't actually give two figs about the sea wall as a possibility. It was claimed, by a poster, several years back, that such wasn't possible because at a strategic point, it was undergoing repairs, but there has been no verification one way or another.
Had I been making such a journey, a car would have been my transport of choice. However, I'm not, nor ever have been, JB.
It seems to me that, on which ever side of the fence one sits, BD's claim, unless it's taken on face value, without questioning, doesn't stand up to scrutiny. She buffers what little she has to say about JB -basically that he was shy and well mannered- by giving a history of Maldon going back to the Middle Ages, and ending with a diatribe of grudges about how the family were trying to "gentrify" the site, resulting in them either having to move their van to the back, or remove it completely. Every camp site I've looked at, does the same. It's called progress.
I think from a gulity perspective the car is the most likely method of transport he used.
Nobody is going to jump out of bed to the sound of a car starting.
Nobody will remember a car going past, either if somebody is walking or driving. They'd have no reason to do so.
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Well, we might be edging closer to singing of the same page, here!
From my own perspective, I don't actually give two figs about the sea wall as a possibility. It was claimed, by a poster, several years back, that such wasn't possible because at a strategic point, it was undergoing repairs, but there has been no verification one way or another.
Had I been making such a journey, a car would have been my transport of choice. However, I'm not, nor ever have been, JB.
It seems to me that, on which ever side of the fence one sits, BD's claim, unless it's taken on face value, without questioning, doesn't stand up to scrutiny. She buffers what little she has to say about JB -basically that he was shy and well mannered- by giving a history of Maldon going back to the Middle Ages, and ending with a diatribe of grudges about how the family were trying to "gentrify" the site, resulting in them either having to move their van to the back, or remove it completely. Every camp site I've looked at, does the same. It's called progress.
Obviously it's on Jeremy's site, Jeremy believes the relatives tried to stitch him up. Obviously de'aths tail of the caravan incident is Jeremy trying to portray the relatives as being greedy.
To be honest I'm not interested in a caravan dispute.
I can't see BD lying about the sea wall just because of that. The two don't relate.
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I think from a gulity perspective the car is the most likely method of transport he used.
Nobody is going to jump out of bed to the sound of a car starting.
Nobody will remember a car going past, either if somebody is walking or driving. They'd have no reason to do so.
I have no argument with that. My only reservation is that neither of us is JB so we can't possibly know -despite the bumpscious booby claiming otherwise- what was JB's thinking.
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I have no argument with that. My only reservation is that neither of us is JB so we can't possibly know -despite the bumpscious booby claiming otherwise- what was JB's thinking.
I honestly don't think it's the end of the story
If the Jeremy Julie in league thing is true I do believe that as Jeremy gets older ( when he hits his seventies ) he will highlight Julie's involvement. When he gets too tired and old to keep fighting his convictions.
Who knows It may even come if he gets knockbacked from the ccrc this time? The guy is in his sixties
One thing is for sure if the theory is true it must eat him up something chronic knowing that Julie is free while he has been rotting in the clink for almost four decades
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I honestly don't think it's the end of the story
If the Jeremy Julie in league thing is true I do believe that as Jeremy gets older ( when he hits his seventies ) he will highlight Julie's involvement. When he gets too tired and old to keep fighting his convictions.
Who knows It may even come if he gets knockbacked from the ccrc this time? The guy is in his sixties
One thing is for sure if the theory is true it must eat him up something chronic knowing that Julie is free while he has been rotting in the clink for almost four decades
IF it's true!...........but I wouldn't like to say, for certain, that she didn't trump him. Wouldn't we all if we'd been threatened?
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I hope ILB is ok.
He's spent the last week claiming an old dear Bamber supporter has debunked the prosecutions 39 year old cycling narrative.
Because she had a caravan between 1.4 - 5 miles away!
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Just need to know why BD was on Bamber's route at 2am.
If she is generalising from her experience at the Osea Leisure Park, guilters will of course dismiss her.
I suspect she will not respond to ILB's letter.
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Ideally BD would have been on Bamber's route at 2am several times. Not just once.
I cannot think of a reason why she or anyone else would be. There is nothing there or near there.
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Too me dea'th is a not a game changer in regards to the sea wall.
I have always dismissed it in any regard. The sea wall scenario without it being populated
Dea'ths knowledge of the population of the wall strengthens the already failing sea wall scenario.
A witness of truth, a stand up woman.
To dismiss dea'ths as an " old dear" is ridiculous
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De'ath having a van at osea means nothing
De'ath states she has knowledge that Bambers Goldhanger to Darcy route was nightly populated. Which means there is a great potential that if he did the none starter sea wall journey. He'd be clocked.
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Seems guilters think de'ath is lying because she had a caravan deal break down with Ann Eaton.
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What difference does her not living on it mean?
Bamber didn't live on it, nobody did.
She has intimate knowledge of the entire sea wall, knows It would be populated and knows Bamber couldn't make the journey there.
Why would she lie ?
Did you read Jane's post in #1?
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Seems guilters think de'ath is lying because she had a caravan deal break down with Ann Eaton.
I don't think she's deliberately lying, but I think the caravan incident clouded her judgment and she's under a misapprehension. I thought the same way with Sandra Lean, well-intentioned as she is, though possibly swayed by the teenage son she never had.
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De'ath having a van at osea means nothing
De'ath states she has knowledge that Bambers Goldhanger to Darcy route was nightly populated. Which means there is a great potential that if he did the none starter sea wall journey. He'd be clocked.
Nightly populated?
Even she isn't saying she had intimate knowledge. She is talking about apparent things going on at the Osea Leisure Park.
There is nothing on Bamber's route that would bring anyone there at 2am.
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At the moment it seems there could be up to 10 route options for Bamber.
Suspect there were several walking routes. Across fields and path ways. Off the main roads. He would have known about the terrain.
There are 4 cycling routes.
The prosecution case is he cycled The Sea Wall.
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Nightly populated?
Even she isn't saying she had intimate knowledge. She is talking about apparent things going on at the Osea Leisure Park.
There is nothing on Bamber's route that would bring anyone there at 2am.
She is talking about bambers route being populated
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She is talking about bambers route being populated
Why?
Have you written to her?
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Why?
Have you written to her?
She is on facebook, I don't have her personal address for god sake.
Why would she lie?
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To be fair this may not be a lie -
'Families would go to their vans and spend the entire holidays there. Fathers would either travel back and forth to work or stay from Friday night to Sunday night there. Children would be up late; barbeques were a group affair where several families would get together and party sometimes till the early hours.
This is why I dismiss the police claim'.
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However Bamber's route is between 1.4 - over 5 miles away.
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She means Bambers route.
De'ath is a witness of truth.
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She means Bambers route.
De'ath is a witness of truth.
Even you know the residents of the Osea Leisure Park would not travel 5 miles to have a BBQ.
You said there was no light on Bamber's route.
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Even you know the residents of the Osea Leisure Park would not travel 5 miles to have a BBQ.
You said there was no light on Bamber's route
Nightfisher men use torches and portable lighting self explanatory.
You keep referring back to osea all the time.
De'ath is on about Bambers route.
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Obviously this is an elderly woman who may be shocked by a random guy messaging her over a Facebook account.
Adam quite rightly says she may not respond. If she doesn't I believe it will be because she may be spooked to answer by a random message. Not because she is lying.
To be honest she might not be interested at all anymore. She may be pro guilt for all I know.
However I will message her and if she replies to me I will with her permission share the response.
She may even be a member on here for all I know.
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Nightfisher men use torches and portable lighting self explanatory.
You keep referring back to osea all the time.
De'ath is on about Bambers route.
Quite contrary to BD's claim that JB's night time cycle ride wasn't possible, we have RB's assertion that such is exactly what happened. Who would have known best? A townie who was only there for holidays, or a life long countryman?
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Quite contrary to BD's claim that JB's night time cycle ride wasn't possible, we have RB's assertion that such is exactly what happened. Who would have known best? A townie who was only there for holidays, or a life long countryman?
RB didn't like Jeremy. Whether that be justified or not. He didn't.
I'm not going to say " fit him up" but it's obviously from the outset he was trying to change the police directive. I'd wager from the first moment they saw him at bourtree they believed he had done it. This is before the silencer discovery.
How much knowledge did RB have of people on the sea wall at night, I'm guessing the same as BD, Difference is RB had an interest in Jeremy getting convicted. He wasn't exactly neutral.
How far was RBs farm? Am I right it was called carbonells?
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Nightfisher men use torches and portable lighting self explanatory.
You keep referring back to osea all the time.
De'ath is on about Bambers route.
That is because she is referring to the caravan park.
So you agree no one would travel to Bamber's route for a BBQ at 2am.
It is just about these mysterious night fishermen.
If she saw night fishermen at 2am, she then needs to say what she was doing there.
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That is because she is referring to the caravan park.
So you agree no one would travel to Bamber's route for a BBQ at 2am.
It is just about these mysterious night fishermen.
If she saw night fishermen at 2am, she then needs to say what she was doing there.
I have no idea if people would pitch tents, have a BBQ, teenagers out messing around or anything. It's quite possible along with night fishermen as de'ath states. The 80s were different times. It was also the height of the summer.
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I have no idea if people would pitch tents, have a BBQ, teenagers out messing around or anything. It's quite possible along with night fishermen as de'ath states. The 80s were different times. It was also the height of the summer.
You said there was no light there.
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RB didn't like Jeremy. Whether that be justified or not. He didn't.
I'm not going to say " fit him up" but it's obviously from the outset he was trying to change the police directive. I'd wager from the first moment they saw him at bourtree they believed he had done it. This is before the silencer discovery.
How much knowledge did RB have of people on the sea wall at night, I'm guessing the same as DB. Difference is RB had an interest in Jeremy getting convicted. He wasn't exactly neutral.
How far was RBs farm? Am I right it was called carbonells?
It was called Carbonells...............and it was very much closer, in distance, than BD's East End of London home.
Who do you think would be the more likely to be taken seriously? RB, a well respected, local figure, who'd known the area longer than he'd known JB, or a holiday maker who had little more than an impression of JB, and probably only knew the area with the parameters of the camp site?
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Obviously this is an elderly woman who may be shocked by a random guy messaging her over a Facebook account.
Adam quite rightly says she may not respond. If she doesn't I believe it will be because she may be spooked to answer by a random message. Not because she is lying.
To be honest she might not be interested at all anymore. She may be pro guilt for all I know.
However I will message her and if she replies to me I will with her permission share the response.
She may even be a member on here for all I know.
Can't see why she would not answer a question about Bamber. She is interested in the case.
Usually a person needs to accept a friend request before you can message them on FB.
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Can't see why she would not answer a question about Bamber. She is interested in the case.
Usually a person needs to accept a friend request before you can message them on FB.
I believe it goes to the spam folder.
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You said there was no light there.
That is correct
Artificial lighting solves that problem.
You know this.
Or campfires.
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It was called Carbonells...............and it was very much closer, in distance, than BD's East End of London home.
Who do you think would be the more likely to be taken seriously? RB, a well respected, local figure, who'd known the area longer than he'd known JB, or a holiday maker who had little more than an impression of JB, and probably only knew the area with the parameters of the camp site?
Evidently RB.
However I don't believe de'ath was ever a potential witness in the first instance.
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His family were well known. Nevill was a prominent person and June, the children Shelia and Jeremy would have been less known perhaps but still known and connected by association.
Theres a strong chance of a visual if the sea wall is populated.
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Did you read Jane's post in #1?
Steven/Stephen long time old sir. I hope you are well
I answered everything pal
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RB didn't like Jeremy. Whether that be justified or not. He didn't.
I'm not going to say " fit him up" but it's obviously from the outset he was trying to change the police directive. I'd wager from the first moment they saw him at bourtree they believed he had done it. This is before the silencer discovery.
How much knowledge did RB have of people on the sea wall at night, I'm guessing the same as BD, Difference is RB had an interest in Jeremy getting convicted. He wasn't exactly neutral.
How far was RBs farm? Am I right it was called carbonells?
Doesn't sound like BD liked Ann and the Eaton's much either. I don't think anyone has said she was lying, just that she's biased and it's unlikely she was out on the part of the sea wall relating to Jeremy's path at a time when he might have used it. Personally, I don't think he did - I think he drove.
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His family were well known. Nevill was a prominent person and June, the children Shelia and Jeremy would have been less known perhaps but still known and connected by association.
Theres a strong chance of a visual if the sea wall is populated.
You said there was not enough outside light to cycle & the prosecution/defence were wrong.
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Doesn't sound like BD liked Ann and the Eaton's much either. I don't think anyone has said she was lying, just that she's biased and it's unlikely she was out on the part of the sea wall relating to Jeremy's path at a time when he might have used it. Personally, I don't think he did - I think he drove.
Please elaborate on why Bamber would drive when he had a bike. Julie & the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall.
Don't just say you think he drove & then disappear from the forum for several weeks. Which you did last time.
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At least ILB is now saying there was enough outside light to cycle The Sea Wall.
The problem for Bamber is there were tents, BBQ's, teenagers, people sitting/talking & fisherman. At 2am!
Well according to supporters BD & ILB anyway.
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The official entrance to the Sea Wall is opposite Thistley Close.
He can avoid properties on Head Street, Fish Street & Thistley Close by exiting out of his back garden.
Once on The Sea Wall he does not pass any properties.
Everyone now agrees there was adequate ambient light to cycle a route he knew on good terrain.
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At least ILB is now saying there was enough outside light to cycle The Sea Wall.
The problem for Bamber is there were tents, BBQ's, teenagers, people sitting/talking & fisherman. At 2am!
Well according to supporters BD & ILB anyway.
Please don't twist things
There was no natural light
But people have torches campfires and portable battery lighting.
This is people on the sea wall doing activity.
Not Bamber on a ladies bike with no lighting. Populated as well.
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Please elaborate on why Bamber would drive when he had a bike. Julie & the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall.
Don't just say you think he drove & then disappear from the forum for several weeks. Which you did last time.
Why would he use a ladies bike when he had a motor.
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Seems the CT version of the prosecution is that they suggested he walked to WHF and took the bike back.
I thought Julie and Bamber said the bike arrived at bourtree days before the massacre ?
This is Jeremy's official site, has the narrative changed ?
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Seems the CT version of the prosecution is that they suggested he walked to WHF and took the bike back.
I thought Julie and Bamber said the bike arrived at bourtree days before the massacre ?
This is Jeremy's official site, has the narrative changed ?
Doesn't make sense to me as well ILB, Julie said she saw the bike at Jeremy's on the Sunday the 4th of August, she never saw it again at Jeremy's house from the 7th of August to the 27th of August. Out of anybody who would have seen the bike it would have been her.
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Please elaborate on why Bamber would drive when he had a bike. Julie & the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall.
Don't just say you think he drove & then disappear from the forum for several weeks. Which you did last time.
Easy, why ride a bike when you can drive, he would be refreshed, he could carry a change of clothing, it was a ladies sit up and beg, would he look strange on that type of bike with no lights at early morning if he's seen and become more noticable, the sea wall wasn't an ideal bike ride route and still isn't according to my mapping on KOMOOT, the Prosecution doesn't know for certain how he got there and back, Julie is known to be a liar.
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Why would he use a ladies bike when he had a motor.
Because a bike is silent and doesn't pass 90 people.
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Please don't twist things
There was no natural light
But people have torches campfires and portable battery lighting.
This is people on the sea wall doing activity.
Not Bamber on a ladies bike with no lighting. Populated as well.
You can't have it both ways.
With or without torches and camp fires people wouldn't gather there & have BBQ,'s at 2am if there was no open area natural lighting.
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Easy, why ride a bike when you can drive, he would be refreshed, he could carry a change of clothing, it was a ladies sit up and beg, would he look strange on that type of bike with no lights at early morning if he's seen and become more noticable, the sea wall wasn't an ideal bike ride route and still isn't according to my mapping on KOMOOT, the Prosecution doesn't know for certain how he got there and back, Julie is known to be a liar.
Because a bike is silent and passes no properties.
The bike was fine for the job. It would not be tiring for him or take too long. The terrain was good & he was fit.
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Obviously if a bike had not arrived at his cottage just before the massacre, then he would have walked or driven.
In that case, I would favour walking. There may be a quick walking friendly route across fields which passed no properties.
He did not believe he had major time constraints.
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Because a bike is silent and passes no properties.
The bike was fine for the job. It would not be tiring for him or take too long. The terrain was good & he was fit.
The car passed very few properties and i doubt anyone would be looking out their window, the car was better for the job, he would be less tired and the terrain was 10 times better in a car than the Sea Wall, and it would take half the time, and he was an lazy sod acording to some?
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The car passed very few properties and i doubt anyone would be looking out their window, the car was better for the job, he would be less tired and the terrain was 10 times better in a car than the Sea Wall, and it would take half the time, and he was an lazy sod acording to some?
Past around 45 properties. Just takes one person.
Not worth the risk when there is a 100% safe route which had good flat terrain. Wouldn't be tiring for him.
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Agree walking would be very tiring. Even if he had a good route which shortened the journey.
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Agree Bamber was lazy. But no one would be lazy if there was over 500k for a nights work.
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The car passed very few properties and i doubt anyone would be looking out their window, the car was better for the job, he would be less tired and the terrain was 10 times better in a car than the Sea Wall, and it would take half the time, and he was an lazy sod acording to some?
Has anyone claimed to have heard him return from the farm the previous evening after he'd finished work, and has anyone claimed to have heard him when he 'rushed' to his family's aid around 3.45am? If they didn't hear him on either of those occassions, why would they have heard him around midnight?
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It's obvious he's gone via the car if gulity.
The prosecution used the cycle narrative to be creative.
Adam just supports it to be awkward.
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Has anyone claimed to have heard him return from the farm the previous evening after he'd finished work, and has anyone claimed to have heard him when he 'rushed' to his family's aid around 3.45am? If they didn't hear him on either of those occassions, why would they have heard him around midnight?
Just takes one person.
Not worth the risk for over 500k.
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People are different.
I would be 100% safe for 500k. Cycle The Sea Wall. If no Sea Wall or bike, would walk across fields.
ILB would be more reckless. That approach did not work for him before & he was caught.
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I understand why the prosecution said he cycled The Sea Wall.
If they said he drove or walked, the defence would have a field day.
Cycling The Sea Wall with a bike which had just arrived at his cottage was bullet proof.
The defence could only say 'yes it's possible but there is no proof he did'.
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The defence argument was - no one saw him.
That would not influence the jury. They would have been told how remote The Sea Wall was.
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People are different.
I would be 100% safe for 500k. Cycle The Sea Wall. If no Sea Wall or bike, would walk across fields.
ILB would be more reckless. That approach did not work for him before & he was caught.
Didn't work for Bamber, Come September he will have been in jail 39 years.
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Nobody is going to hear or see a car at that time.
Pissing around on a ladies bike over s darkened track and fields
It's laughable it's ludicrous
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Imagine what Bamber would feel like if Julie had not come forward & Taff stayed on the case. But....
Someone saw him drive off/or arrive back.
Talk about kicking yourself.
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It's just a complete non starter.
De'ath further strengthening the view.
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Nobody is going to hear or see a car at that time.
Pissing around on a ladies bike over s darkened track and fields
It's laughable it's ludicrous
Just takes one person out of 90 or one security camera from 45 properties. Or both.
But appreciate you are more reckless.
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Past around 45 properties. Just takes one person.
Not worth the risk when there is a 100% safe route which had good flat terrain. Wouldn't be tiring for him.
Perfect Terrain for a sit up and beg Ladies Cycle in the early hours of the Morning
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=18874;image
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=18873;image
No wonder Julie never saw the bike again at Goldhanger, i bet he thought Sod that for a game of Soldiers?
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Imagine what Bamber would feel like if Julie had not come forward & Taff stayed on the case. But....
Someone saw him drive off/or arrive back.
Talk about kicking yourself.
If anyone had seen him at the time that would incriminate him, it might have saved Julie from coming forward?
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Perfect Terrain for a sit up and beg Ladies Cycle in the early hours of the Morning
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=18874;image
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=18873;image
No wonder Julie never saw the bike again at Goldhanger, i bet he thought Sod that for a game of Soldiers?
Too risky driving. Just takes one security camera or person.
Too much of an open goal to the defence if the prosecution said he drove.
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Too risky driving. Just takes one security camera or person.
Too much of an open goal to the defence if the prosecution said he drove.
He went to meet the police in the car nobody saw him.
Bews stating that Bambers car was the only other car on the road.
Bike is a clever narrative.
But not realistic. But from a prosecution point of view very good.
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The prosecution saying he walked across fields would be challenged by the defence. As it was a long walk which would be tiring.
The jury would say he was prepared to do the walk as a one off for over 500k.
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It's literally a 16 minute round trip drive.
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The prosecution saying he walked across fields would be challenged by the defence. As it was a long walk which would be tiring.
The jury would say he was prepared to do the walk as a one off for over 500k.
I would!
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With the walk across fields narrative bullet proof, the prosecution decided he cycled. Don't blame them!
The cycle ride was quicker, less tiring, a bike had arrived & Julie testified he planned to.
A dream for the prosecution.
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I would!
I wouldn't kill my family for money. But each to their own.
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With the walk across fields narrative bullet proof, the prosecution decided he cycled. Don't blame them!
The cycle ride was quicker, less tiring, a bike had arrived & Julie testified he planned to.
A dream for the prosecution.
Well why are Bamber and the CT saying the prosecution narrative is he walked then cycled back ?
Is he now claiming the bike wasn't at bourtree at all?
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I wouldn't kill my family for money. But each to their own.
I would walk a few miles to avoid properties for 500k. Rather than drive because 'it's quicker'.
But appreciate you are more reckless.
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The defence would say 'no one saw him walking'.
As with the cycle ride this would not influence the jury. As a 2am walk passed no properties.
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I could literally now drive to the corner shop down the road in daylight and none of my neighbours would notice!!!!
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Well why are Bamber and the CT saying the prosecution narrative is he walked then cycled back ?
Is he now claiming the bike wasn't at bourtree at all?
No idea. He had the chance to refute Julie saying the bike arrived at Goldhanger just before the massacre during his police interviews & trial.
He didn't.
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Please elaborate on why Bamber would drive when he had a bike. Julie & the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall.
Don't just say you think he drove & then disappear from the forum for several weeks. Which you did last time.
Where does it say that Julie said he cycled the Sea Wall Adam? Can you please provide a Link? Notice how she mentions one way, this seems to back up her statement that the bike was seen at the cottage on the Sunday the 4th and not seen on the 7th of Aug the Day of the murders.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55444;image
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4952.0;attach=34828;image
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No idea. He had the chance to refute Julie saying the bike arrived at Goldhanger just before the massacre during his police interviews & trial.
He didn't.
He did refute what she said back then.
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Where does it say that Julie said he cycled the Sea Wall Adam? Can you please provide a Link? Notice how she mentions one way, this seems to back up her statement that the bike was seen at the cottage on the Sunday the 4th and not seen on the 7th of Aug the Day of the murders.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55444;image
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4952.0;attach=34828;image
Think he dropped her at the train station on the Sunday evening, and she was then at bourtree on the Wednesday morning of the massacre.
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Where does it say that Julie said he cycled the Sea Wall Adam? Can you please provide a Link? Notice how she mentions one way, this seems to back up her statement that the bike was seen at the cottage on the Sunday the 4th and not seen on the 7th of Aug the Day of the murders.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55444;image
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4952.0;attach=34828;image
Her WS said he planned to cycle.
Her testimony said he planned to cycle The Sea Wall. It is in Wilkes book.
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He did refute what she said back then.
The bike was seen before & after the massacre at Goldhanger.
Obviously Bamber cycled there & back. No point only cycling just one journey.
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Julie obviously told the police he planned to cycle The Sea Wall.
EP checked the route and agreed it was cycle friendly & passed no properties - bullet proof.
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Cycling The Sea Wall is a common sense route. For the prosecution.
It was cycle friendly & passed no properties. He had an available bike & no major time limits.
But appreciate people are more reckless.
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ILB has Bamber driving & letting himself into WHF with a key. After Nevill had not bolted doors from inside.
Sounds like he's popping over for coffee.
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Another advantage of cycling is he can go right up to WHF.
ILB says himself he would have to park a long way from WHF. There were other properties on Pages Lane.
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He could park on pages lane and walk down.
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How do you know Bamber didnt bolt the doors instead of Nevill.?
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He could park on pages lane and walk down.
Would have to be a long way from the properties on Pages Lane.
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Would have to be a long way from the properties on Pages Lane.
He's not going to leave the engine running is he?
Turn off the engine and as long as the car is out of site nobody will be none the wiser.
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How do you know Bamber doing bolt the doors instead of Nevill.?
Assume farmers bolted there doors & locked there windows. Farm houses are constantly broken into. Ditto most people.
Tony Martin had enough & shot intruders!
But if you believe he let himself in with a door key, feel free.
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As said I could jump in the van now drive to the shop and none of my neighbours or anyone would notice.
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He's not going to leave the engine running is he?
Turn off the engine and as long as the car is out of site nobody will be none the wiser.
Out of sight?
He's on Pages Lane.
But apparently no one ever goes outside after 10pm.
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As said I could jump in the van now drive to the shop and none of my neighbours or anyone would notice.
Just takes one person or security camera.
Or two or three or.......
But appreciate you are more reckless.
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He could park anywhere on that lane, and literally just saunter down.
Nobody will see him
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Biggest risk with the car is it breaking down on the return journey to goldhanger.
If that happened then he'd be fucked.
But it was a brand new astra
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He could park anywhere on that lane, and literally just saunter down.
Nobody will see him
How close to the occupied farm workers houses would you park?
Appreciate no one goes outside after 10pm.
Either way a silent bike can go right up to WHF.
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How close to the occupied farm workers houses would you park?
Appreciate no one goes outside after 10pm.
Either way a silent bike can go right up to WHF.
Except the sea wall they go there all night.
De'ath pissed on your bonfire with that one didn't she :))
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Just takes one person or security camera.
Or two or three or.......
But appreciate you are more reckless.
No one is going to notice me.
I could literally sit in the van ten minutes before leaving and the neighbours would not notice !
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Biggest risk with the car is it breaking down on the return journey to goldhanger.
If that happened then he'd be fucked.
But it was a brand new astra
That is another risk.
A bike puncture is not a risk. He can either carry the bike & leave it at WHF or Goldhanger. Depending on whether going to/from.
Or he can dump the bike somewhere out of sight & walk.
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No one is going to notice me.
I could literally sit in the van ten minutes before leaving and the neighbours would not notice !
Just takes one person or security camera.
Or two or three or.......
But appreciate you are more reckless.
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Just takes one person or security camera.
Or two or three or.......
But appreciate you are more reckless.
It's not reckless and this is in the day.
People are going about their business, who cares about some guy in van ?
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It's not reckless and this is in the day.
People are going about their business, who cares about some guy in van ?
You are not driving in a village at 2am about to committ a massacre.
Agree no one will remember your van now.
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It's not reckless and this is in the day.
People are going about their business, who cares about some guy in van ?
Starting a car & driving past 45 properties, 90 people & security cameras I consider reckless.
But appreciate you are more reckless.
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Starting a car & driving past 45 properties, 90 people & security cameras I consider reckless.
But appreciate you are more reckless.
What would you do if Bamber gets his convictions overturned and is freed?
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Except the sea wall they go there all night.
De'ath pissed on your bonfire with that one didn't she :))
An old dear Bamber supporter who lives in London & had a caravan miles away.
Very much so.
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One minute The Sea Wall is a remote route behind a small village. Leading & adjoining to nowhere. ILB saying it was too dark to go on.
Now it's making the Copacabana look quiet. At 2am! Teenagers, tents, bonfires, fishermen, BBQ's, people sitting/talking.
I'll stick with Millers quote 'no one would see him in a million years'.
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It was too dark to cycle.
And to populated
Dea'th confirms this
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One minute The Sea Wall is a remote route behind a small village. Leading & adjoining to nowhere. ILB saying it was too dark to go on.
Now it's making the Copacabana look quiet. At 2am! Teenagers, tents, bonfires, fishermen, BBQ's, people sitting/talking.
I'll stick with Millers quote 'no one would see him in a million years'.
Source of miller saying this?
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Source of miller saying this?
https://youtu.be/gx7y-in6ly4?si=Yx4OduXcQwnTGDy1
22 minutes.
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It was too dark to cycle.
And to populated
Dea'th confirms this
BD doesn't say too dark. Only you do.
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BD is saying there was good natural light outside. As everyone was apparently outside at 2am.
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https://youtu.be/gx7y-in6ly4?si=Yx4OduXcQwnTGDy1
22 minutes.
How much experience of the sea wall did Miller have?
Disagree that car headlights would be seen in a small hamlet at 2am in 1985.
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How much experience of the sea wall did Miller have?
Disagree that car headlights would be seen in a small hamlet at 2am in 1985.
Miller was part of investigation team. So will know all about the different route options.
The trial was a year after the massacre. EP had plenty of time investigate prior to telling the prosecution how Bamber travelled.
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ILB's best option is to contact BD.
If she can give good reasons why she was regulary on Bamber's route at 2am, that would be a start.
She would then need to explain why the residents of the Osea Leisure Park would travel up to 5 miles at 2am.
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ILB's best option is to contact BD.
If she can give good reasons why she was regulary on Bamber's route at 2am, that would be a start.
She would then need to explain why the residents of the Osea Leisure Park would travel up to 5 miles at 2am.
You keep going back to osea.
It's getting repetitive.
She says people on the wall on his route.
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I think it's insulting to accuse BD of being a liar.
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You keep going back to osea.
It's getting repetitive.
She says people on the wall on his route.
The nearest biggest places are Heybridge and Maldon. Which are both between 3.5 - 7.5 miles away.
Not sure why anyone there would want to be on The Sea Wall at 2am.
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You keep going back to osea.
It's getting repetitive.
She says people on the wall on his route.
s
It's a very, VERY long wall, and unless she has walked his route, regularly, late nights/early mornings, she can't attest to how frequently there will be people there. Although she could verify who might be on the sea wall in her own vicinity as she gives us to understand that her caravan was right next to it.
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s
It's a very, VERY long wall, and unless she has walked his route, regularly, late nights/early mornings, she can't attest to how frequently there will be people there. Although she could verify who might be on the sea wall in her own vicinity as she gives us to understand that her caravan was right next to it.
Have you walked Bamber's route?
The photos and bits I have on Youtube it looks quiet during the day, let alone at 2am. Which is not surprising.
It leads to and adjoins nowhere. It is not exactly lush sand, clear blue water & surfing wave territory.
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Have you walked Bamber's route?
The photos and bits I have on Youtube it looks quiet during the day, let alone at 2am. Which is not surprising.
It leads to and adjoins nowhere. It is not exactly lush sand, clear blue water & surfing wave territory.
You do realise this event we are discussing happened almost 39 years ago ?
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The 80s were simple times.
I was a teenager in the 80s, no internet no phones, back then. It's not uncommon for the sort of activity BD describes to be taking place.
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Bamber's walking route going in a straight line across fields is 2.2 miles.
This does not involve going near any properties once he has gone through the church on Church Street.
If wanted to exit out of his back garden to avoid properties on Head, Fish & Church Street, that would add on another 0.6 miles.
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Can't see him walking it.
Again same as the cycling, too much pissing around. Time consuming.
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Can't see him walking it.
Again same as the cycling, too much pissing around. Time consuming.
Why is walking or cycling 'pissing about'?
Nothing wrong with 30 minutes of doing that for over 500k.
But appreciate you are more reckless.
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Why is walking or cycling 'pissing about'?
Nothing wrong with 30 minutes of doing that for over 500k.
But appreciate you are more reckless.
The guy had a car. It's quicker and easier.
Park on pages lane, out of view and sight, in out back in the car to goldhanger
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Wasn't Nevills car s Citroen found at bourtree?
I have certainly seen s photo of it outside Jeremy's cottage before.
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A 2.2/2.8 mile walk, he would be reliant on all the fields being walker friendly. Together with the hedges/fences between fields not being difficult to pass.
I don't believe he would walk The Sea Wall, which was 4.2 miles. There would have been a better alternative walking route.
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As far as physical effort & time goes, I would rather cycle 4.2 miles than walk at least 2.2/2.8 miles.
The Sea Wall route terrain would have also been better than the fields terrain.
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As far as physical effort & time goes, I would rather cycle 4.2 miles than walk at least 2.2/2.8 miles.
The Sea Wall route terrain would have also been better than the fields terrain.
But for over 500k, happy to do either!
The 4.2 & 2.8 mile routes pass no properties.
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There may have been a cycle route through the fields. Using the footpaths on the edge of each field.
Doubt he could cycle through all the fields. The eventual route may take longer than The Sea Wall route with a lot of zig zagging. Although the advantage of not passing properties remains.
EP would have checked that. They went with The Sea Wall.
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A 2.2/2.8 mile walk, he would be reliant on all the fields being walker friendly. Together with the hedges/fences between fields not being difficult to pass.
I don't believe he would walk The Sea Wall, which was 4.2 miles. There would have been a better alternative walking route.
Maybe he Swam it, he would avoid all properties, he would avoid the walkers and Fishermen, he would go in his Wet Suit and not have to change, the Return Swim would wash the Blood from his Wet Suit, he would avoid the Sea Wall and Hedges from walking, he would avoid traffic and Nosey Neighbours looking out their windows at early morning.
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Have you walked Bamber's route?
The photos and bits I have on Youtube it looks quiet during the day, let alone at 2am. Which is not surprising.
It leads to and adjoins nowhere. It is not exactly lush sand, clear blue water & surfing wave territory.
It's not the sort of terrain I'd care to walk on now, in daylight, let alone nearly 40 years ago in total darkness!
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So 6 cycle routes available. Some slightly overlap.
Two of them passed no properties. Of which he needed to be disciplined.
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Maybe he Swam it, he would avoid all properties, he would avoid the walkers and Fishermen, he would go in his Wet Suit and not have to change, the Return Swim would wash the Blood from his Wet Suit, he would avoid the Sea Wall and Hedges from walking, he would avoid traffic and Nosey Neighbours looking out their windows at early morning.
YEA!!! That'd be it then, HB!! You've nailed it!
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It's not the sort of terrain I'd care to walk on now, in daylight, let alone nearly 40 years ago in total darkness!
Why is that? The bits I have seen show it to be footpaths.
Trudie Benjamin even sat down on a footpath bench during her Sea Wall vlog!
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So 6 cycle routes available. Some slightly overlap.
Two of them passed no properties. Of which he needed to be disciplined.
Disciplined for over 500k.
I'm sure he would even collect June from her bible class on time for that amount.
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I don't think Bamber swam The Sea Wall. Too far.
Although he would pass no properties providing he exited by his back garden.
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Why is that? The bits I have seen show it to be footpaths.
Trudie Benjamin even sat down on a footpath bench during her Sea Wall vlog!
Obviously over the years it would have done work on it.
You can compare it from Bambers time to when she did it.
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Obviously over the years it would have done work on it.
You can compare it from Bambers time to when she did it.
The only relevant people that can do that are EP.
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The only relevant people that can do that are EP.
Why?
One copper did the route in the day time.
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Why?
One copper did his route in the day time.
The ones still alive.
1985 - Wilkinson, the family, the prosecution.
After that GG cycled it at night.
Let me know how you get on. Photos appreciated.
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The ones still alive.
1985 - Wilkinson, the family, the prosecution.
After that GG cycled it at night.
Let me know how you get on. Photos appreciated.
Will be on foot more than likely. Or may have the chance to buy a cheap bike
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Why did Trudi step down from the JB campaign? Did she change stance?
Wonder why all the videos were pulled down.
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Will be on foot more than likely. Or may have the chance to buy a cheap bike
The main thing would be terrain & vision in the night. I know what 4.2 miles is like to cycle.
Be interesting to know how bike friendly the route from his back garden to The Sea Wall entrance was. He would have to double back. This avoids the Fish Street properties.
Also be good to know when he turned off The Sea Wall to get to WHF. Some path ways will be better than others.
Google 3D does not cover these.
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Why did Trudi step down from the JB campaign? Did she change stance?
Wonder why all the videos were pulled down.
Believe she qualified as a lawyer. Probably thought being attached to the case would damage her credibility.
Suspect Bamber wanted the weekly vlogs taken down. A pity. Used to look forward to Monday evenings.
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Will be on foot more than likely. Or may have the chance to buy a cheap bike
Remember to be familar with the route before going there in the dark.
Even I would probably say it was too difficult if going in cold.
A bike is not essential. You will be able to tell how easy it would be to cycle just by looking/walking.
However being greedy, be interesting to know how quickly you could cycle it. Going at a good pace.
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Walking there and back is a bit of mission.
Remember to bring your packed lunch.
A bike would make it easy to cycle there & back twice. Once during the day. Once when dark.
If cycling at night, please specify the time. Big difference between 8pm & 2am.
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Walking there and back is a bit of mission.
Remember to bring your packed lunch.
A bike would make it easy to cycle there & back twice. Once during the day. Once when dark.
If cycling at night, please specify the time. Big difference between 8pm & 2am.
There is parking at end of thistle street.
The problem is I have no idea what the turning to WHF is.
Cannot find trudis video as it has been taken offline.
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Believe she qualified as a lawyer. Probably thought being attached to the case would damage her credibility.
Suspect Bamber wanted the weekly vlogs taken down. A pity. Used to look forward to Monday evenings.
Wonder why he did?
Is it true he wants this forum shut down ?
It's not like he can stop the awkward questions forming. There in the domain for all to see and interpret how they see fit.
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Where does the sea wall turn to WHF?
Can you even get signal or GPS on the wall.
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The main thing would be terrain & vision in the night. I know what 4.2 miles is like to cycle.
Be interesting to know how bike friendly the route from his back garden to The Sea Wall entrance was. He would have to double back. This avoids the Fish Street properties.
Also be good to know when he turned off The Sea Wall to get to WHF. Some path ways will be better than others.
Google 3D does not cover these.
Can he access it from his back garden ?
I thought he had to go to thistle street for the sea wall.
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Can he access it from his back garden ?
I thought he had to go to thistle street for the sea wall.
I have no idea where Thistle St is! All I can find is Thistly Close, which is new.
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There is parking at end of thistle street.
The problem is I have no idea what the turning to WHF is.
Cannot find trudis video as it has been taken offline.
The only way to have an idea what left turning he made off The Sea Wall, is to try them.
There is a left turning which goes in a straight line right to WHF. However that passes one property. But certainly worth checking that one.
If he didn't cycle that he would make one of the earlier turnings.
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I have no idea where Thistle St is! All I can find is Thistly Close, which is new.
Thought it might be new. It does look quite new on Google 3D. Assume the properties further down towards The Sea Wall are new as well.
That would make entering The Sea Wall via his back garden easier and mean less cycling.
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It is quite a long way from The Sea Wall turn off to WHF. At least a mile.
But it's got to be done for over 500k.
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I'd ideally like to have done it at night.
However the problem is trying to navigate the route. With lack of knowledge.
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Thats the entrance.
Looks shit for parking, may be a case of parking away. Most of roads look double yellowed
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I'd ideally like to have done it at night.
However the problem is trying to navigate the route. With lack of knowledge.
The problem for you is you have to be there at night. As you say it was too dark to cycle and people would still be on it.
However you do not know the route.
Only option is to get used to it during the day.
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Obviously there is a field to go over to get to WHF direct.
If this has an incline theres no way he cycled it.
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Obviously there is a field to go over to get to WHF direct.
If this has an incline theres no way he cycled it.
Why?
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Thats the entrance.
Looks shit for parking, may be a case of parking away. Most of roads look double yellowed
This looks like one of the paths I took. We were parked in the Chequers car park! Of course, there's access for cars down Fish St because there are houses -not all have off road parking- but the only place to park a vehicle, other than on the road, would be the playing field. It's possible that they put a barrier up at night, but I'd have thought, in such a small community, unlikely. The next closest footpath is beside the church.
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Why?
Cycling up a field in darkness is madness.
Even walking up with the bike it's just too much pissing around.
Moat feasible in my view is taking the the car straight there.
Or driving to the top of pages lane and dismounting on the cycle.
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Obviously there is a field to go over to get to WHF direct.
If this has an incline theres no way he cycled it.
In all the places I've accessed it there has been a slope with steps to access the wall. I doubt there to be steps cut in along the whole length of it, only in those areas closest to amenities.
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Cycling up a field in darkness is madness.
Even walking up with the bike it's just too much pissing around.
Moat feasible in my view is taking the the car straight there.
Or driving to the top of pages lane and dismounting on the cycle.
Why is cycling up a hill in darkness any different to cycling on flat surface?
The only reason he would not cycle up a hill is if it was too steep.
I doubt there was a hill. Fish Street & Church Street are opposite and are flat.
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Why is cycling up a hill in darkness any different to cycling on flat surface?
The only reason he would not cycle up a hill is if it was too steep.
I doubt there was a hill. Fish Street & Church Street are opposite and are flat.
There is definatley a field to cycle over.
Bamber mentions them in his words in a tik tok. So does RB. ( Statements and notes not tik tok )
Both would know the route of course.
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ILB is trying to create obstacles again.
Now Bamber wouldn't cycle up a hill in the dark. Where he lived, worked and grew up!
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There is definatley a field to cycle over.
Bamber mentions them in his words in a tik tok. So does RB. ( Statements and notes not tik tok )
Both would know the route of course.
I know there are fields to cycle over once off The Sea Wall. It is on Google maps.
The paths around the fields are probably fine.
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I know there are fields to cycle over once off The Sea Wall. It is on Google maps.
The paths around the fields are probably fine.
If the field has a steep incline that could cause an issue.
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Seems the narrative has changed from the CT.
They are saying that the prosecution alleged he never cycled to WHF just cycled back.
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Why is cycling up a hill in darkness any different to cycling on flat surface?
The only reason he would not cycle up a hill is if it was too steep.
I doubt there was a hill. Fish Street & Church Street are opposite and are flat.
Okay. I've walked UP onto the sea wall in places, from Heybridge to Tollesbury. Access isn't always across fields, but the land is below sea level. At Goldhanger the paths I've mentioned have required walking/cycling across a field, at the end of which have been conveniently placed steps, without which, access, up the steeply raked slope, with a bike, would be difficult.
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If the field has a steep incline that could cause an issue.
'If'.
Only way to know is to see for yourself.
In my experience cyclists cycle up hills. And down.
Doubt there is an incline worthy of the name. All fields I have seen are on flat surfaces.
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ILB is trying to create obstacles again.
Now Bamber wouldn't cycle up a hill in the dark. Where he lived, worked and grew up!
We are having an adult discussion.
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'If'.
Only way to know is to see for yourself.
In my experience cyclists cycle up hills. And down.
Doubt there is an incline worthy of the name. All fields I have seen are on flat surfaces.
Cycling down a steep field incline at 2am in the morning is a potential for a bad accident. In pitch black darkness
You know this
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Cycling down a steep field incline at 2am in the morning is a potential for a bad accident. In pitch black darkness
You know this
You are inventing 'steep hills' to try to create obstacles.
All fields I have seen are on flat surfaces.
Wilkinson did not mention any steep hills.
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You are inventing 'steep hills' to try to create obstacles.
All fields I have seen are on flat surfaces.
Wilkinson did not mention any steep hills.
Like you said if we end discovering that the route does have them, then it's not a case of creating obstacles it's recognising them.
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Wilkinson said it was level -
Well defined.
Level.
Six feet wide (sea wall).
Occasional stiles.
Stiles easy to pass.
Path cycled 'with ease'.
Well maintained.
Clearly defined.
Easily negotiable.
Walked/cycled with ease.
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All fields I have seen are on flat surfaces.
You've never seen a inclined field or uneven field in your entire life ????
Sounds unbelievable.
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Wilkinson said it was level -
Well defined.
Level.
Six feet wide (sea wall).
Occasional stiles.
Stiles easy to pass.
Path cycled 'with ease'.
Well maintained.
Clearly defined.
Easily negotiable.
Walked/cycled with ease.
He'd hardly going to turn round and day " it's a right shit show guv, there's no way Bamber did that journey.
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It is a straight forward cycle ride for a 24 year old man who lived/worked there. Taking around 20 minutes.
The big advantage is it passed no properties.
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He'd hardly going to turn round and day " it's a right shit show guv, there's no way Bamber did that journey.
Are you saying Wilkinson's WS is a lie? Very risky.
Not another member of EP in on it.
A pity the defence didn't check the route.
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It is a straight forward cycle ride for a 24 year old man who lived/worked there. Taking around 20 minutes.
The big advantage is it passed no properties.
I thought Wilkinson said it took 35 mins?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=35026;image
He also said this...............https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=35027;image
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Are you saying Wilkinson's WS is a lie? Very risky.
Not another member of EP in on it.
A pity the defence didn't check the route.
It was a clever narrative to use.
The prosecution had to come up with something to use. Over 500 people interviewed locally and nobody saw him.
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The Sea Wall route is flat as far as I am concerned.
Any minor hills will be cycled up & down. As you do.
I don't agree Wilkinson would make a false WS which would be so easy to check for the defence.
ILB is trying to create obstacles for a straight forward cycle ride.
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It was a clever narrative to use.
The prosecution had to come up with something to use. Over 500 people interviewed locally and nobody saw him.
Yes. No one saw him.
That would be his aim.
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The Sea Wall route is flat as far as I am concerned.
Any minor hills will be cycled up & down. As you do.
I don't agree Wilkinson would make a false WS which would be so easy to check for the defence.
ILB is trying to create obstacles for a straight forward cycle ride.
De'ath has already done that. Well delivered them not created.
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Yes. No one saw him.
That would be his aim.
Or the police were just clutching at straws.
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Best thing is that ILB goes there.
He is the one saying it is too dark, too populated, too steep.
Needs to prove the prosecution wrong.
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It was a clever narrative to use.
The prosecution had to come up with something to use. Over 500 people interviewed locally and nobody saw him.
I bet he didn't use a laddies sit up and Beg Bike, it would have took longer than the 35 mins he said he did it in. The quickest route was via the roads and Brook House Farm, and look t the wording he uses........Practicable........meaning able to be done or put into practice successfully.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=35027;image
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I thought Wilkinson said it took 35 mins?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=35026;image
He also said this...............https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=35027;image
That's what I said yesterday! It cuts off one hell of a corner and minimizes the -albeit slight- risk of being seen.
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Or the police were just clutching at straws.
Having a dream route & just arrived bike at his cottage isn't clutching at straws in my view.
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Having a dream route & just arrived bike at his cottage isn't clutching at straws in my view.
The CT are saying they alleged he walked to WHF then collected the bike for the return journey.
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That's what I said yesterday! It cuts off one hell of a corner and minimizes the -albeit slight- risk of being seen.
It's a long way around following the Sea Wall Jane, he uses the wording clever, the shortest route practicable without using main roads, doesn't mean the best route and quickest.
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I bet he didn't use a laddies sit up and Beg Bike, it would have took longer than the 35 mins he said he did it in. The quickest route was via the roads and Brook House Farm, and look t the wording he uses........Practicable........meaning able to be done or put into practice successfully.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=35027;image
He just jumped in the car hardy in my view.
Adam knows this but swears by this crazy dark sea wall theory.
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He just jumped in the car hardy in my view.
Adam knows this but swears by this crazy dark sea wall theory.
I agree with the prosecution. For over 500k better safe than sorry.
You are more reckless & have paid heavy prices for it. Thought that would have made you more careful. But no.
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It's a long way around following the Sea Wall Jane, he uses the wording clever, the shortest route practicable without using main roads, doesn't mean the best route and quickest.
No one ever said cycling the Sea Wall was the quickest route.
However a one time extra 10 minutes of cycling is worth it for over 500k.
He had no time constraints.
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Nobody would have noticed the car.
Everyone would be asleep.
Nobody noticed it when he went to meet police !
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Nobody would have noticed the car.
Everyone would be asleep.
Nobody noticed it when he went to meet police !
You keep saying that.
He was not mystic Bamber & would not know what would happen if he drove.
Cycling The Sea Wall was worth doing for over 500k. The bike arriving 2 days before.
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You keep saying that.
He was not mystic Bamber & would not know what would happen if he drove.
Cycling The Sea Wall was worth doing for over 500k. The bike arriving 2 days before.
Do you not understand that a guy who does something of this magnitude in a massive risk taker in the first instance ? He was going to committ X5 murder.
He even if gulity told his girlfriend of his murderous plans!
Doubt a quick car journey through deserted roads would worry him.
The biggest risk was the car breaking down. That's it.
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Do you not understand that a guy who does something of this magnitude in a massive risk taker in the first instance ? He was going to committ X5 murder.
He even if gulity told his girlfriend of his murderous plans!
Doubt a quick car journey through deserted roads would worry him.
The biggest risk was the car breaking down. That's it.
You keep saying that because he risked killing 5 people he would take a massive risk in being seen.
For over 500k better to minimise your risks.
He did the right thing by cycling The Sea Wall. There was just too much other forensic and circumstantial evidence.
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You keep saying that because he risked killing 5 people he would take a massive risk in being seen.
For over 500k better to minimise your risks.
He did the right thing by cycling The Sea Wall. There was just too much other forensic and circumstantial evidence.
I think he drove if gulity. Always will. The sea wall is debunked.
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Good old Barbara de'ath. A game changer !
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Brand new astra I believe it was.
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ILB really needs to just confirm the visibility of The Sea Wall at night. Although Gunfire Graffiti has already said the ambient light made it so easy to see.
If he wants to confirm whether it is populated or not, he needs to be there at 2am.
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Wilkinson has already said the terrain was good, flat & cycle friendly.
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It's a long way around following the Sea Wall Jane, he uses the wording clever, the shortest route practicable without using main roads, doesn't mean the best route and quickest.
Fors and against all routes and all methods of transport, then, HB? D'ya reckon he tossed a coin? :))
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He just jumped in the car hardy in my view.
Adam knows this but swears by this crazy dark sea wall theory.
Yes i agree, Cal say's he used the Road as does Wilkinson by saying it was the shortest and quickest practcable route to go by the road, Zoso and Jane agree, so the Road seems the most practacible way for a 500k ride. JM in her witness statement just say's he planned to cycle there.
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Fors and against all routes and all methods of transport, then, HB? D'ya reckon he tossed a coin? :))
It's either driving past 45 properties & potential security cameras. Or cycling past no properties or security cameras. .
I know what I would do for over 500k.
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Yes i agree, Cal say's he used the Road as does Wilkinson by saying it was the shortest and quickest practcable route to go by the road, Zoso and Jane agree, so the Road seems the most practacible way for a 500k ride. JM in her witness statement just say's he planned to cycle there.
She also testified he planned to cycle The Sea Wall.
Too risky driving past 45 properties, security cameras and at least 90 people. He had a dream route & stole June's bike for it 2 days before.
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Did anything ever come of the impending video of the professional cyclist on the BMX bike, or has that plan bitten the dust? https://youtu.be/dYKxkKvzm9M
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ILB was very reckless and paid the heavy price for it. I suspect more than once as he's still reckless.
That's fine. But he needs to go to the Sea Wall & debunk the rock solid 39 year old prosecution stance. This will be done by -
Proving he could not cycle in open area outside darkness.
Prove there are people on The Sea Wall at 2am.
--------
If he does, surprised it has taken 39 years considering the amount of campaigning Bamber has done.
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As said, ILB will need to include photos.
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Did anything ever come of the impending video of the professional cyclist on the BMX bike, or has that plan bitten the dust? https://youtu.be/dYKxkKvzm9M
Listened to the first 5 minutes. Already 3 errors.
There are nearly 90 pieces of evidence linking him to the crime. .
The prosecution case is he cycled to and from WHF. As the bike arrived 2 days before the massacre.
Julie didn't use the bike for work or to cycle to the station. She only saw it a few hours before going home 2 days before the massacre.
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They say the cycle routes were not carried out by someone of the same build as Bamber. That is an advantage for Bamber as he was slim & 24.
Not replicating the route at night is nothing major. Bamber lived at Goldhanger, used to live at WHF & farmed the land in between!
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They say the cycle routes were not carried out by someone of the same build as Bamber. That is an advantage for Bamber as he was slim & 24.
Not replicating the route at night is nothing major. Bamber lived at Goldhanger, used to live at WHF & farmed the land in between!
He certainly knew the terrain. On a further point, I'd like to offer Yvonne a different fisherman's friend. https://youtu.be/y55bHKHMjuU
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They say the defence did not take the jury to The Sea Wall.
Suspect someone from the defence did go there. They reported back that taking the jury there would do more harm than good.
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He certainly knew the terrain. On a further point, I'd like to offer Yvonne a different fisherman's friend. https://youtu.be/y55bHKHMjuU
Yes she does sound like a dalek after a night out.
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They say the defence did not take the jury to The Sea Wall.
Suspect someone from the defence did go there. They reported back that taking the jury there would do more harm than good.
Suspect someone from the defence went there day & night.
His report back - 'it can't be challenged'.
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Suspect someone from the defence went there day & night.
His report back - 'it can't be challenged'.
Was it Trudi Benjamin who walked the sea wall? I thought there was a video of it somewhere.
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Was it Trudi Benjamin who walked the sea wall? I thought there was a video of it somewhere.
Her vlogs have been taken down.
A pity as the bench she sat on was on excellent terrain.
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Yes she does sound like a dalek after a night out.
30 cigarettes a day will do that.
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Very immature of Adam to bring up my criminal past as an argument for why his sea wall theory is shit and unfeasible.
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Very immature of Adam to bring up my criminal past as an argument for why his sea wall theory is shit and unfeasible.
It is very reckless driving. He wasn't going to the supermarket.
Do you believe the defence visited The Sea Wall? They had a year.
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It is very reckless driving. He wasn't going to the supermarket.
Do you believe the defence visited The Sea Wall? They had a year.
No I don't. I don't think they ever thought of doing so.
Would it have helped? Im not sure to be honest, they had much bigger fish to try and overcome, the silencer and Julie.
I have always planned to ask Paul Terzeon himself this question.
As I've said they rode heavily on the " nobody saw him make the journey that means he was at home in bed guv " stance
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As said Bamber himself fixed the narrative it was either him or Shelia by his phonecall to the police. Destroying any chance of a third party involvement being brought up
Very difficult case to defend in all honesty. I've always believed they his counsel were convinced of his guilt. But at the end of the day all they do is put their clients case forward.
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No I don't. I don't think they ever thought of doing so.
Would it have helped? Im not sure to be honest, they had much bigger fish to try and overcome, the silencer and Julie.
I have always planned to ask Paul Terzeon himself this question.
As I've said they rode heavily on the " nobody saw him make the journey that means he was at home in bed guv " stance
My view is that would check the prosecutions route. Day and night.
Verdict - unbreakable.
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My view is that would check the prosecutions route. Day and night.
Verdict - unbreakable.
I suppose the only way to confirm this is by asking Paul Terzeon.
Or of course Jeremy Bamber himself.
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I don't think transport was his biggest problem to be honest. And even if they proved the wall was impossible to do there are still other routes.
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As said Bamber himself fixed the narrative it was either him or Shelia by his phonecall to the police. Destroying any chance of a third party involvement being brought up
Very difficult case to defend in all honesty. I've always believed they his counsel were convinced of his guilt. But at the end of the day all they do is put their clients case forward.
He must have been supremely confident, having fixed the narrative, that Sheila's culpability would be accepted.
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He must have been supremely confident, having fixed the narrative, that Sheila's culpability would be accepted.
Totally agree.
And initially at least from the police perspective it indeed was. ( Officially I know sbj and others had misgivings from the outset)
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I don't think transport was his biggest problem to be honest. And even if they proved the wall was impossible to do there are still other routes.
Be standard practice for the defence to check the prosecution route. Day & night.
They can then debunk it at trial. The prosecution can't change routes mid trial.
The Sea Wall was unbreakable.
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As Yvonne Hartley said, the defence didn't take the jury to The Sea Wall.
A wise move by them.
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Be standard practice for the defence to check the prosecution route. Day & night.
They can then debunk it at trial. The prosecution can't change routes mid trial.
The Sea Wall was unbreakable.
That still doesn't rule out he went via other routes.
The guys ex partner was saying he had confessed to her.
Apparently his sisters blood on the silencer. Which is said to have been used in the killings
Think the defence had bigger problems in my view.
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Totally agree.
And initially at least from the police perspective it indeed was. ( Officially I know sbj and others had misgivings from the outset)
I know of one who, after speaking to JB, never shifted from his guilty stance.
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As Yvonne Hartley said, the defence didn't take the jury to The Sea Wall.
A wise move by them.
Then we have our answer. And your opinion it was a wise move.
Me personally, I don't think the trial rested on transport.
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He must have been supremely confident, having fixed the narrative, that Sheila's culpability would be accepted.
Yes, and not worried about Julie, though surprisingly Ann Eaton's likely input nagged him, hence his flattery in the prologue to the murders and his tour de force that first day at Bourtree Cottage.
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That still doesn't rule out he went via other routes.
The guys ex partner was saying he had confessed to her.
Apparently his sisters blood on the silencer. Which is said to have been used in the killings
Think the defence had bigger problems in my view.
The route is vital.
If they debunk The Sea Wall it undermines the prosecution badly. They can't change routes mid trial. The other routes are also weaker & the defence would attack them.
But the defence knew The Sea Wall was unbreakable. So it was - 'it was possible but that doesn't mean he did'.
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I know of one who, after speaking to JB, never shifted from his guilty stance.
Maybe if he'd played the grieving son more effectively it might had made a difference.
Was shocked SBJ said to him on the morning of the killings " your family are dead pull yourself together "
How times have changed, in 2024 he'd probably be subject to a disciplinary procedure!
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Then we have our answer. And your opinion it was a wise move.
Me personally, I don't think the trial rested on transport.
So that's why your going to message BD & visit The Sea Wall.
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The route is vital.
If they debunk The Sea Wall it undermines the prosecution badly. They can't change routes mid trial. The other routes are also weaker & the defence would attack them.
But the defence knew The Sea Wall was unbreakable. So it was - 'it was possible but that doesn't mean he did'.
The words was " he used a route that avoided the back roads "
Wilkinsons statement was that the route was decent.
If the defence had countered it would have been up for deliberation who they believed.
Julie also said as Ainsley thought he would cycle the brook track not the sea wall.
So not massively detrimental the defence disputing the sea wall.
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So that's why your going to message BD & visit The Sea Wall.
I am working In Essex in May.
I have a big interest in the case.
So do you.
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Maybe if he'd played the grieving son more effectively it might had made a difference.
Was shocked SBJ said to him on the morning of the killings " your family are dead pull yourself together "
How times have changed, in 2024 he'd probably be subject to a disciplinary procedure!
Might it have been that SBJ saw the play acting?
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The words was " he used a route that avoided the back roads "
Wilkinsons statement was that the route was decent.
If the defence had countered it would have been up for deliberation who they believed.
Julie also said as Ainsley thought he would cycle the brook track not the sea wall.
So not massively detrimental the defence disputing the sea wall.
Julie testified he planned to cycle The Sea Wall.
The defence would take the jury to The Sea Wall if they thought Wilkinson's statement was wrong. But they checked it day and night and realised it was unbreakable.
Good luck with your visit.
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Debunking The Sea Wall has several advantages.
It destroys the prosecution case.
It creates reasonable doubt
The defence can say no one saw him cycle on the main roads.
The defence can say it is a long round trip walking across fields.
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But The Sea Wall was unbreakable.
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Don't know why people dispute The Sea Wall.
Of course it was possible. The prosecution would not use it & the defence accept it otherwise.
But people are entitled to say he walked or drove.
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Debunking The Sea Wall has several advantages.
It destroys the prosecution case.
It creates reasonable doubt
The defence can say no one saw him cycle on the main roads.
The defence can say it is a long round trip walking across fields.
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But The Sea Wall was unbreakable.
Doesn't destroy the prosecution case.
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Don't know why people dispute The Sea Wall.
Of course it was possible. The prosecution would not use it & the defence accept it otherwise.
But people are entitled to say he walked or drove.
Its a clever narrative. Of course they would use it.
They had to, nobody saw him.
Doesnt make it feasible.
Nice try you're quick, unfortunately I'm just a little quicker.
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Its a clever narrative. Of course they would use it.
They had to, nobody saw him.
Doesnt make it feasible.
Nice try your quick, unfortunately I'm just a little quicker.
Do you agree if the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall & the defence do not dispute, it was possible?
Neither side would be daft enough to make such huge mistakes.
You are still entitled to say he drove.
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Do you agree if the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall & the defence do not dispute, it was possible?
Neither side would be daft enough to make such huge mistakes.
You are still entitled to say he drove.
The defences mantra is he never made the journey in the first instance.
You understand the burden of proof ?
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The defences mantra is he never made the journey in the first instance.
You understand the burden of proof ?
Do you agree that the prosecution saying he cycled The Sea Wall when it was not possible was a huge risk?
The defence had a year to go there.
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Do you agree that the prosecution saying he cycled The Sea Wall when it was not possible was a huge risk?
The defence had a year to go there.
And they didn't choose to go there.
That's not to mean they lied about going and them saying " fucking hell it's a perfect route, he could have done it, that's us fucked in court"
Obviously they didn't think it necessary.
What's the overriding point you are trying to make?
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The mantra also was predominately Shelia did the crime due to her schizophrenia and mental health difficultiesm
On paper, having an alternative suspect with these problems is not a bad thing.
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And they didn't choose to go there.
That's not to mean they lied about going and them saying " fucking hell it's a perfect route, he could have done it, that's us fucked in court"
Obviously they didn't think it necessary.
What's the overriding point you are trying to make?
Do you believe the defence went to The Sea Wall. Day and night?
They had a year to do so. Bamber has said the route was not negotiable.
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Do you believe the defence went to The Sea Wall. Day and night?
They had a year to do so. Bamber has said the route was not negotiable.
Yvonne has said on that video they didn't.
Obviously Jeremy has confirmed that they didn't. If you believe that.
Do you believe Jeremy is lying about this?
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Yvonne has said on that video they didn't.
Obviously Jeremy has confirmed that they didn't. If you believe that.
Do you believe Jeremy is lying about this?
Yvonne said they never took the jury there.
Do you think that is because it would show how easy the route was?
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Yvonne said they never took the jury there.
Do you think that is because it would show how easy the route was?
No. I don't think they gave it much thought
Disagree with what your said in regards to route importance.
The mantra was Bamber was innocent.
The onus is on the prosecution to establish guilt.
When there's 500 people interviewed in the locality and nobody sees your client there's a pretty clear case for reasonable doubt in that instance on itself in regards to transportation.
As I'm retierating again, they had more pressing issues.
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And they didn't choose to go there.
That's not to mean they lied about going and them saying " fucking hell it's a perfect route, he could have done it, that's us fucked in court"
Obviously they didn't think it necessary.
What's the overriding point you are trying to make?
Well, they did go to Fingringhoe Ranges to hear the difference between a rifle with and without sound moderator. Whether they were given the option to walk the sea wall, Brook House Farm track and White House Farm itself I don't know.
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No. I don't think they gave it much thought
Disagree with what your said in regards to route importance.
The mantra was Bamber was innocent.
The onus is on the prosecution to establish guilt.
When there's 500 people interviewed in the locality and nobody sees your client there's a pretty clear case for reasonable doubt in that instance on itself in regards to transportation.
As I'm retierating again, they had more pressing issues.
Do you think the defence thought a covert 2am route was not important?
Do you think both the prosecution and defence are wrong in agreeing The Sea Wall route could be cycled?
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Do you think the defence thought a covert 2am route was not important?
Do you think both the prosecution and defence are wrong in agreeing The Sea Wall route could be cycled?
1) I believe the defence did not think it important for reasons I've previously stated on many occassions.
2) The question is none sensical. The prosecution narrative and attempting to couple it with the defence having no view as they believed it didn't occur in the first instance. That was the latters mantra. This question is stupid.
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Keep firing Adam by all means
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1) I believe the defence did not think it important for reasons I've previously stated on many occassions.
2) The question is none sensical. The prosecution narrative and attempting to couple it with the defence having no view as they believed it didn't occur in the first instance. That was the latters mantra. This question is stupid.
Do you believe when you visit The Sea Wall it will show highly qualified lawyers from both the prosecution and defence were wrong?
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Well, they did go to Fingringhoe Ranges to hear the difference between a rifle with and without sound moderator. Whether they were given the option to walk the sea wall, Brook House Farm track and White House Farm itself I don't know.
I didn't know that.
Was that the prosecution on defence decision?
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Do you believe when you visit The Sea Wall it will show highly qualified lawyers from both the prosecution and defence were wrong?
What do you mean by wrong? Please elaborate.
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What do you mean by wrong? Please elaborate.
Both sides agree The Sea Wall route could be cycled at 2am.
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I didn't know that.
Was that the prosecution on defence decision?
This is correct
The transcript is available.
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Both sides agree The Sea Wall route could be cycled at 2am.
Do they ?
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Where you going with this Adam?
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Do they ?
Yes.
Do you believe the relatives and GG will also be proved wrong when you visit?
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Yes.
Do you believe the relatives and GG will also be proved wrong when you visit?
GG used night vision goggles.
The relatives had a financial interest. Did they do a practical trial run or just whinged?
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GG used night vision goggles.
The relatives had a financial interest. Did they do a practical trial run or just whinged?
Please don't lie.
What will you do when you visit The Sea Wall and realise the prosecution and defence were wrong?
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Please don't lie.
What will you do when you visit The Sea Wall and realise the prosecution and defence were wrong?
I am going to the sea wall for self interest.
Again a further none sensical question.
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I am going to the sea wall for self interest.
Again a further none sensical question.
Surely you will go to the CT if you have a eureka moment.
You won't find The Sea Wall can't be cycled at night & there are people on it at 2am. That would have been tested by the defence & lots of other people over the last 39 years.
But if you want to go for self interest feel free. Look forward to your report & photos
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Surely you will go to the CT if you have a eureka moment.
You won't find The Sea Wall can't be cycled at night & there are people on it at 2am. That would have been tested by the defence & lots of other people over the last 39 years.
But if you want to go for self interest feel free. Look forward to your report & photos
I don't mind jokes and humour but constant Drivel [boring, stupid annoying] is a bit much for my precious time, I'm sitting the Sea Wall out Now.
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Surely you will go to the CT if you have a eureka moment.
You won't find The Sea Wall can't be cycled at night & there are people on it at 2am. That would have been tested by the defence & lots of other people over the last 39 years.
But if you want to go for self interest feel free. Look forward to your report & photos
Why would I go to thr CT? I have nothing to do with them.
I just have an interest in the case of Jeremy Bamber. The same as you.
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I don't act In a professional capacity for Jeremy Bamber. I'm not qualified to do so. And even if I was I wouldn't. That's if he even wanted me to do so. He has plenty of people working on his behalf.
I am a fence sitter and will always remain so. Personally I believe everybody should have this stance.
We are just people playing on a forum. Some of us have connections in the past to area, defendant, place etc. I'm not even am slueth. Can't speak direct for other posters intentions. But nothing we say on here obviously would be dictated on a legal arena. And as I've always said only compelling evidence will get his convictions quashed. Which so far has not happened.
As a father, it's a too emotive case for me to ever get personally involved in which is why I am independent.
Look at Mike for example, the time the cost the effort he put in for Jeremy, and the latter cut ties with him. Personally I would have said " well fuck you Jeremy it's your life " even if his theories were a little crazy he still added value in my book
Creating this forum and getting his case for innocence in the public eye.
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Why would I go to thr CT? I have nothing to do with them.
I just have an interest in the case of Jeremy Bamber. The same as you.
So if there are 2am BBQ's & it can't be cycled at night, you won't contact anyone outside the forum.
Up to you. David's 2016 forensic evidence breakthrough he wrote to Bamber, Andrew Hunter & NGB.
Has BD responded to your message?
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So if there are 2am BBQ's & it can't be cycled at night, you won't contact anyone outside the forum.
Up to you. David's 2016 forensic evidence breakthrough he wrote to Bamber, Andrew Hunter & NGB.
Has BD responded to your message?
As said transportation isn't at the heart of the conviction and wasn't at the trial. There were far more pressing issues and I believe the CT have already included an answer to the bike in the 2021 submission.
I suspect my message has gone to her spam folder.
2016 forensic breakthrough?
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The darkness of the sea wall at the time the defendant is supposed to have made the journey makes the theory completely non sensical. All I have to do in this regard to prove that is to visit it at night. This can be done by walking.
The police officer did the journey in the day. Why didn't he replicate it at night? What's the point in replication a journey of someone who didn't do it in the day? Obviously the conclusion is simple he knew it couldn't be done.
If their is a steep incline with a field it just makes the theory even more laughable. Both RB and Bamber said that it had and both will know of course.
As always from a prosecution narrative it can be made to look sinister and effective for empathsis.
Can't blame them 500 interviewed and nobody saw him! Had to get creative !
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As said transportation isn't at the heart of the conviction and wasn't at the trial. There were far more pressing issues and I believe the CT have already included an answer to the bike in the 2021 submission.
I suspect my message has gone to her spam folder.
2016 forensic breakthrough?
The journey was very much at the heart of the case. It is often discussed on here.
I accept it is possible to drive to WHF & back. He had a car. But don't believe he did.
Disappointing you have never accepted it was possible to cycle The Sea Wall. Going on about goggles and now tents/BBQ's. The prosecution & defence would not make such a huge error. But at least you are now going to visit it.
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The journey was very much at the heart of the case. It is often discussed on here.
I accept it is possible to drive to WHF & back. He had a car. But don't believe he did.
Disappointing you have never accepted it was possible to cycle The Sea Wall. Going on about goggles and now tents/BBQ's. The prosecution & defence would not make such a huge error. But at least you are now going to visit it.
I'm not saying it wasn't at the heart of course it is an issue but I'm sure you can appreciate when your client has an ex girlfriend who is saying he confessed to her and a sound moderator with the alternative suspects blood in it that they are more serious obstacles to overcome.
500 people interviewed and not clocking him on the night creates reasonable doubt he made any type of journey in itself.
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The darkness of the sea wall at the time the defendant is supposed to have made the journey makes the theory completely non sensical. All I have to do in this regard to prove that is to visit it at night. This can be done by walking.
The police officer did the journey in the day. Why didn't he replicate it at night? What's the point in replication a journey of someone who didn't do it in the day? Obviously the conclusion is simple he knew it couldn't be done.
If their is a steep incline with a field it just makes the theory even more laughable. Both RB and Barber said that it had and both will know of course.
As always from a prosecution narrative it can be made to look sinister and effective for empathsis.
Can't blame them 500 interviewed and nobody saw him! Had to get creative !
Both RB & GG said it could be cycled at night. Together with the prosecution and defence. . But you won't accept them. Which is immature. But at least you are now visiting it.
Please provide the source of a steep incline. Not that it matters. Cyclists who encounter a hill do one thing - cycle it.
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The journey was very much at the heart of the case. It is often discussed on here.
I accept it is possible to drive to WHF & back. He had a car. But don't believe he did.
Disappointing you have never accepted it was possible to cycle The Sea Wall. Going on about goggles and now tents/BBQ's. The prosecution & defence would not make such a huge error. But at least you are now going to visit it.
In fairness it was de'ath who mentioned the BBQs, all night parties and populated sea wall. My primary focus was always thet it would be too dark and cumbersome to do. I have only discovered de'aths claims in the last week or so.
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Both RB & GG said it could be cycled at night. Together with the prosecution and defence. . But you won't accept them. Which is immature. But at least you are now visiting it.
Please provide the source of a steep incline. Not that it matters. Cyclists who encounter a hill do one thing - cycle it.
A steep incline path is easy to cycle up. A steep incline field when you can't see shit is non sensical
You know this.
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I'm not saying it wasn't at the heart of course it is an issue but I'm sure you can appreciate when your client has an ex girlfriend who is saying he confessed to her and a sound moderator with the alternative suspects blood in it that they are more serious obstacles to overcome.
500 people interviewed and not clocking him on the night creates reasonable doubt he made any type of journey in itself.
The 500 people just confirms there are no BBQ's, tents and teenagers on Bamber's route at 2am. Which you already knew.
The route passed no properties so no one would see him. So no reasonable doubt.
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A steep incline path is easy to cycle up. A steep incline field when you can't see shit is non sensical
You know this.
Who said he's cycling up fields?
He cycled the Sea Wall. Then cycled up paths to WHF.
You know this.
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Both RB & GG said it could be cycled at night. Together with the prosecution and defence. . But you won't accept them. Which is immature. But at least you are now visiting it.
Please provide the source of a steep incline. Not that it matters. Cyclists who encounter a hill do one thing - cycle it.
Troll and goad as much as you like, it won't bolster your shit arguments at all.
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Cycling up or down a field is possible. Depends on the terrain.
Anyway waiting for ILB's source.
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The 500 people just confirms there are no BBQ's, tents and teenagers on Bamber's route at 2am. Which you already knew.
The route passed no properties so no one would see him. So no reasonable doubt.
It was a small area, Ive previously looked at the population and it's not far off the mark.
Nobody clocked him, 500 interviewed. Good reasonable doubt odds there.
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Troll and goad as much as you like, it won't bolster your shit arguments at all.
I do believe it is very immature to not accept GG, the family, prosecution & defence. To constantly claim it was too dark to cycle.
Just say 'yes he could cycle it, but I believe he drove'.
Anyway look forward to your 'steep incline' source.
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Who said he's cycling up fields?
He cycled the Sea Wall. Then cycled up paths to WHF.
You know this.
What paths to WHF ?
You yourself don't know this. You said.
Bamber and RB both mentioned fields, Bamber himself called it " laughable "
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It was a small area, Ive previously looked at the population and it's not far off the mark.
Nobody clocked him, 500 interviewed. Good reasonable doubt odds there.
I don't understand.
The Sea Wall route passed no properties. So why would someone see him at 2am?
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I do believe it is very immature to not accept GG, the family, prosecution & defence. To constantly claim it was too dark to cycle.
Just say 'yes he could cycle it, but I believe he drove'.
Anyway look forward to your 'steep incline' source.
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I don't understand.
The Sea Wall route passed no properties. So why would someone see him at 2am?
According to de'ath it was populated.
Why would EP interview 500 people in the area ( almost the entire area population. ) if they thought he went via the sea wall ?
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What paths to WHF ?
You yourself don't know this. You said.
Bamber and RB both mentioned fields, Bamber himself called it " laughable "
The gaps between fields are called paths.
In my view there will be sufficient paths between the Sea Wall & Pages Lane. You will enlighten everyone more after your visit.
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The gaps between fields are called paths.
In my view there will be sufficient paths between the Sea Wall & Pages Lane. You will enlighten everyone more after your visit.
WHF is a farm, surrounded by acres of farmland
Are you suggesting Nevill commissioned to have a path built?
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WHF is a farm, surrounded by acres of farmland
Are you suggesting Nevill commissioned to have a path built?
What are the gaps between fields? They go right round and along fields.
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No source has been provided regarding steep inclines over fields. After two requests.
Wilkinson said the terrain was level.
Therefore ILB's post is dismissed.
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No source has been provided regarding steep inclines over fields. After two requests.
Wilkinson said the terrain was level.
Therefore ILB's post is dismissed.
As said neither of us have been.
You don't dismiss me at anything!
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Aerial shot of WHF 1985
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The beginning of Pages Lane is only 0.4 miles from The Sea Wall.
I'm sure Bamber knew a suitable way.
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Ridiculous he could cycle over those fields in the pitch black.
Walking textbook definition of none starter.
Have to agree with Bamber " laughable "
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Aerial shot of WHF 1985
Where the 'S' on Shuttlecock is, on the far right is a pathway.
Thanks ILB.
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Where the 'S' on Shuttlecock is, on the far right is a pathway.
Thanks ILB.
You are more than welcome.
It's pages lane you tit.
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Did Bamber testify The Sea Wall couldn't be cycled?
He certainly didn't say anything in his police interviews.
But appreciate he will now say he didn't even know it was there. Although lived, worked & grew up 5 minutes away.
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You are more than welcome.
It's pages lane you tit.
So he could cycle Pages Lane. It's a lane.
You old tit.
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It is strange that people say Bamber couldn't cycle on footpaths. For around 20 minutes.
Even the defence agreed.
But up to them.
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Did Bamber testify The Sea Wall couldn't be cycled?
He certainly didn't say anything in his police interviews.
But appreciate he will now say he didn't even know it was there. Although lived, worked & grew up 5 minutes away.
Why would he?
He wasn't been asked about it.
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No source has been provided regarding steep inclines over fields. After two requests.
Wilkinson said the terrain was level.
Therefore ILB's post is dismissed.
No response from ILB.
Inventing 'steep inclines' is disappointing.
But desperate times....
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So he could cycle Pages Lane. It's a lane.
You old tit.
From the road I think yes no problem.
However it's clear that the sea wall would mean he would have to cycle over fields as himself and RB state.
In the dark totally non sensical.
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No response from ILB.
Inventing 'steep inclines' is disappointing.
But desperate times....
Wilkinson replicated the journey in the day.
Highly doubt he bothered to go over the fields as required on the bike.
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Why would he?
He wasn't been asked about it.
Yes the defence case was 'yes it's possible but there is no proof he did'.
Except 89 pieces of COA forensic evidence.
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Wilkinson replicated the journey in the day.
Highly doubt he bothered to go over the fields as required on the bike.
So in daylight Wilkinson missed a steep incline towards WHF?
Anyway you have not provided a source, so as said your claim is dismissed.
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Yes the defence case was 'yes it's possible but there is no proof he did'.
Except 89 pieces of COA forensic evidence.
89 pieces of ADAM evidence.
But appreciate you now agree with me they had more pressing matters to contend with.
Thanks Adam.
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So in daylight Wilkinson missed a steep incline towards WHF?
Anyway you have not provided a source, so as said your claim is dismissed.
It's clear from the aerial view if he went via the sea wall he would have to cycle fields which at 2am is just not feasible.
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So in daylight Wilkinson missed a steep incline towards WHF?
Anyway you have not provided a source, so as said your claim is dismissed.
The picture doesn't lie.
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Not sure why ILB posted a photo of Pages Lane. It's a lane so can be cycled.
The quickest pathway route from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane is only 0.4 miles. If that is cycle friendly then the whole journey is cycle friendly.
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Not sure why ILB posted a photo of Pages Lane. It's a lane so can be cycled.
The quickest pathway route from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane is only 0.4 miles. If that is cycle friendly then the whole journey is cycle friendly.
Source of sea wall leading onto pages lane please
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It's clear from the aerial view if he went via the sea wall he would have to cycle fields which at 2am is just not feasible.
Are you able to digest the gaps between fields are pathways. So people do not have to walk on fields.
Certainly walking friendly. Most probably cycle friendly.
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Source of sea wall leading onto pages lane please
Google maps.
The shortest left turn path from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane is 0.4 miles.
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As far as cycling across fields goes. Doubt he needed to.
Suspect some fields could be cycled. Some couldn't.
Bamber would know the best route. He worked on the land!
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Not sure why ILB posted a photo of Pages Lane. It's a lane so can be cycled.
The quickest pathway route from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane is only 0.4 miles. If that is cycle friendly then the whole journey is cycle friendly.
I didn't post a photo of pages lane.
I posted an aerial view photo of WHF and the surrounding acres.
Of course pages lane can be cycled.
When accessed via the road.
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I didn't post a photo of pages lane.
I posted an aerial view photo of WHF and the surrounding acres.
Of course pages lane can be cycled.
When accessed via the road.
Did you look at Google Maps?
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Did you look at Google Maps?
Google maps does not offer a fully sea wall route you know this
You can't make estimations
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Google maps does not offer a fully sea wall route you know this
You can't make estimations
There is a left turn pathway that is a straight line to Pages Lane. Measuring 0.4 miles.
If that is cycle friendly, then that would be the perfect route.
I look forward to your report.
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There is a left turn pathway that is a straight line to Pages Lane. Measuring 0.4 miles.
If that is cycle friendly, then that would be the perfect route.
I look forward to your report.
Have no fear
Us northern lads are made of stronger stuff.
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The pathways around fields will certainly be walker friendly. Farmers & the public can walk around crops rather than on fields.
Obviously walker friendly = cycle friendly.
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The pathways around fields will certainly be walker friendly. Farmers & the public can walk around crops rather than on fields.
Obviously walker friendly = cycle friendly.
Disagree.
Also depends on direction
Goldhanger is west to east.
In fact interesting...
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Disagree.
Also depends on direction
Goldhanger is west to east.
In fact interesting...
Do you not believe people walk around fields?
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Seems GG took his blog down
Not surprised to be honest.
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Do you not believe people walk around fields?
Not every fields have walkways.
Need exact coordinates to establish from the aerial view
Very interesting.
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From Google Maps & the internet, it does seem like a straight forward 20 minute cycle ride. Espescially for Bamber who lived, worked & grew up there.
The Sea Wall has good terrain.
Then it is a case of turning left at the appropriate time & cycling on the field footpaths until reaching Pages Lane. Ideally on the shortest route pathway of only 0.4 miles.
Disappointing supporters don't take the defence approach - 'possible but no evidence he did'.
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From Google Maps & the internet, it does seem like a straight forward 20 minute cycle ride. Espescially for Bamber who lived, worked & grew up there.
The Sea Wall has good terrain.
Then it is a case of turning left at the appropriate time & cycling on the field footpaths until reaching Pages Lane. Ideally on the shortest route pathway of only 0.4 miles.
Disappointing supporters don't take the defence approach - 'possible but no evidence he did'.
You have never been to the sea wall.
Stop going off Wilkinson
Get yourself down there. You live closer to it then I do.
Not having a driving licence is a poor excuse.
Jump on a train.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
The CT have Bamber turning left off The Sea Wall at the location I have mentioned.
I suspect the 0.4 mile footpath leading to Pages Lane is cycle friendly. As it leads from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
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Suspect is no good.
We have to go ourselves.
I am going
So should you.
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At present the only area I am not sure about is the 0.4 miles. From The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
It does look cycle friendly. There are paths all the way to it.
Obviously The Sea Wall and Pages Lane are cycle friendly.
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Trying to goad an ex convict will never work Adam :))
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I have just tried Google Maps 3D.
Knew it wouldn't go down the 0.4 mile pathway to Pages Lane.
Thought it might go down Pages Lane to the beginning of the pathway. But it didn't.
As said because the pathway leads from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane, I will have to say it will be cycle friendly.
ILB will confirm upon his visit.
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I have made Google Maps satellite as big as possible.
Where Pages Lane ends and merges into the pathway, the size of the pathway remains the same - wide enough for a car.
The pathway does narrow a bit as it gets closer to The Sea Wall. In my estimation around 6 feet wide.
So it is pretty clear it will be cycle friendly. It is a lane/pathway that leads from somewhere to somewhere.
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I have made Google Maps satellite as big as possible.
Where Pages Lane ends and merges into the pathway, the size of the pathway remains the same - wide enough for a car.
The pathway does narrow a bit as it gets closer to The Sea Wall. In my estimation around 6 feet wide.
So it is pretty clear it will be cycle friendly. It is a lane/pathway that leads from somewhere to somewhere.
Time will tell.
However I still stand by the fact it is an unfeasible journey.
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I will look on Google satellite later on and come to my own conclusions.
Will be back later, stripping the front bedroom for the rest of the afternoon.
Enjoy your Saturday
ILB.
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The Pages Lane entrance from Maldon Road is wide enough for a van, let alone a car. Following that end of Pages Lane to where the pathway starts, Pages Lane does not get any narrower.
There is then not really any differrence in wideness during the footpath section leading up to The Sea Wall.
What does change on Google Maps is the terrain. The terrain of Pages Lane would be suitable for cars. The terrain of the pathway would be suitable to walk and cycle. It is no longer a road, but a pathway to The Sea Wall.
Bamber would have no trouble cycling a flat pathway as wide as a van on footpath quality terrain for 0.4 miles. A few hundred yards from where he used to live & now worked.
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What the end of Pages Lane may have, is a gate. Meaning no cars beyond this point. This is because The Sea Wall is not suitable for cars.
However the lane continues as a foot/cycle path. As The Sea Wall is suitable for walkers/cyclists.
So really not much difference between size and terrain between Pages Lane & beyond.
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Good evening Adam
About to look.
I take it you are saying they pages lane leads direct to the sea wall.
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Good evening Adam
About to look.
I take it you are saying they pages lane leads direct to the sea wall.
No. There is a pathway from The Sea Wall that leads to Pages Lane. It looks very wide and cycle friendly. As my previous posts on this page say. It is 0.4 miles long.
Have you not looked at Google Maps before?
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No. There is a pathway from The Sea Wall that leads to Pages Lane. It looks very wide and cycle friendly. As my previous posts on this page say. It is 0.4 miles long.
Have you not looked at Google Maps before?
Your a liar, I've been on Google earth. You are talking shit
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That lane leads into fields way before the sea wall he would have to go into fields and we have no idea of the incline or anything.
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Your a liar, I've been on Google earth. You are talking shit
Please keep to the topic rather than try to divert.
Plesse give your opinion on the straight cycle/walk pathway from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
Google Maps shows it is as wide as Pages Lane.
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Please keep to the topic rather than try to divert.
Plesse give your opinion on the straight cycle/walk pathway from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
Google Maps shows it is as wide as Pages Lane.
Google earth is more reliable.
Pages lane leads to fields
Which he would have to cross.
It was a rhetorical question by the way.
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That lane leads into fields way before the sea wall he would have to go into fields and we have no idea of the incline or anything.
I don't understand.
Pages Lane merges into a cycle/walkway which leads to The Sea Wall. It is wide and will have good terrain.
There is no incline. You failed to provide a source.
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I don't understand.
Pages Lane merges into a cycle/walkway which leads to The Sea Wall. It is wide and will have good terrain.
There is no incline. You failed to provide a source.
No it doesn't, look on Google earth.
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Google earth is more reliable.
Pages lane leads to fields
Which he would have to cross.
It was a rhetorical question by the way.
Please don't lie.
Pages Lane merges into a cycle/walkway. This leads to The Sea Wall.
You cannot drive down it as The Sea Wall is not suitable for cars. However it is a walk/cycle path for anyone who wants to walk/cycle to The Sea Wall from Pages Lane.
All on Google Maps.
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Please don't lie.
Pages Lane merges into a cycle/walkway. This leads to The Sea Wall.
You cannot drive down it as The Sea Wall is not suitable for cars. However it is a walk/cycle path for anyone who wants to walk/cycle to The Sea Wall from Pages Lane.
All on Google Maps.
Google earth is more effective. Maps will not extend on private land. Don't try to confuse it.
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No it doesn't, look on Google earth.
Please don't lie.
Pages Lane the road ends & merges into a cycle/walk path. So people can walk to The Sea Wall.
The path is as wide as Pages Lane.
This is often the case if someone wants to get to the beach. Park the car & walk.
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Please don't lie.
Pages Lane the road ends & merges into a cycle/walk path. So people can walk to The Sea Wall.
The path is as wide as Pages Lane.
This is often the case if someone wants to get to the beach. Park the car & walk.
How can you distinguish a route via maps
Over to you.
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Thats the tail end of pages lane, it Leads to fields.
It's way before crossing the sea wall.
It involves farmers fields as Bamber and RB both said.
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Anyway as everyone can see who goes onto Google Maps, there is a path which runs along the side of the fields. From The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
This is wide & will be cycle/walk friendly. It is 0.4 miles long.
Even the OS says this is one of the routes he may have taken.
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How can you distinguish a route via maps
Over to you.
Please don't try to divert by putting images up.
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Please don't try to divert by putting images up.
Why?
They are the same images you are looking at when making outlandish false claims.
Images which are available to all of us.
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Thats the tail end of pages lane, it Leads to fields.
It's way before crossing the sea wall.
It involves farmers fields as Bamber and RB both said.
Please don't put bits of the route up. Then lie.
As an elderly man it is very immature.
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Please don't put bits of the route up. Then lie.
As an elderly man it is very immature.
You've been caught out :))
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Why?
They are the same images you are looking at when making outlandish false claims.
Images which are available to all of us.
Please don't lie.
I can't make false claims about what's on Google Maps. As everyone sees the same thing.
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Think I've established what I've needed to establish.
I think it's time to ask one of the moderators to lock the thread.
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Please don't lie.
I can't make false claims about what's on Google Maps. As everyone sees the same thing.
:)) :))
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Seems like Adam is calling both RB and Bamber liars about their knowledge of the surrounding area.
Also disputing Google as well.
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Anyway as far as I am concerned there is a perfectly adequate cycle path. From The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
This is as wide as Pages Lane & 0.4 miles long.
It runs alongside the fields. As cycle paths do on farmland!
Wilkinson said - level terrain.
Anyone can go on Google Maps & check.
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I think the photos tell the truth. I'm not trying to be patronising.
I think it's time for a new thread in fairness. I'm doing the visit in may. As hardy boy said earlier we've discussed it to death.
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I can only go via the satellite information and images available.
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ILB will obviously check this on his visit and report back. With photos.
He just needs to go to the end of pages lane. Then keep walking/cycling down the wide path.
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ILB will obviously check this on his visit and report back. With photos.
He just needs to go to the end of pages lane. Then keep walking/cycling down the wide path.
Doesn't add up Adam, sorry
Let people make their own minds up.
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For me there has been good recent progress on Bamber's route.
Jane said Thistley Close was not there in 1985. Assume it is ditto with the Fish Street properties next to these. This would make access to The Sea Wall from his back garden easier and quicker.
Google Maps shows a cycle/foot path along the edge of fields. Starting at the end of Pages Lane, to The Sea Wall. This is wide, flat and will have perfectly adequate terrain
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That is the end dreg of the sea wall route the last bit of field if he went via the sea wall.
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Pages lane evaporates long before the sea wall entrance begins ( fields ) nd he has to conduct his route via fields
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As always said I thought the sea wall to WHF route had an end path that basically took you to WHF. Whether it be psges lane or anything. As it turns out you can only access WHF via pages lane via the road route and Maldon road of course.
Cycling through fields at 2am and back is just ludicrous.
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Not sure why ILB has put up a picture of a field.
The official site has the pathway I am referring to. It is the blue path that adjoins Pages Lane.
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
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Not sure why ILB has put up a picture of a field.
The official site has the pathway I am referring to. It is the blue path that adjoins Pages Lane.
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
Source
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It is the blue pathway which adjoins the red and green lines next to 'A'.
Sorry ILB, even the OS are not saying he cycled across fields.
But keep digging.
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Obviously Bamber and RB reference the route.
Acknowledging it went via fields
Both having intimate knowledge of it.
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It is the blue pathway which adjoins the red and green lines next to 'A'.
Sorry ILB, even the OS are not saying he cycled across fields.
But keep digging.
Bamber himself is saying that along with RB.
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Source
The link in reply 461.
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It is the blue pathway which adjoins the red and green lines next to 'A'.
Sorry ILB, even the OS are not saying he cycled across fields.
But keep digging.
That's not a clear route you tit, it's a diagram. A rough map
A satellite gives you the correct information, the layout, the fields, the roads, the road ending.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
Agree this is the most cycle friendly route.
Along The Sea Wall. Then turning left up wide pathways onto Pages Lane.
And not passing one property.
A dream route. Intially just for Bamber.
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That's not a clear route you tit, it's a diagram. A rough map
A satellite gives you the correct information, the layout, the fields, the roads, the road ending.
They are going down the pathway.
You old tit.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
Agree this is the most cycle friendly route.
Along The Sea Wall. Then turning left up wide pathways onto Pages Lane.
And not passing one property.
A dream route. Intially just for Bamber.
Yeah a dream route for a hiker on am adventure.
For a man committing five times murder it is
Dark and unlit
Cumbersome
Bad terrain
Inclines
Involves cycling through vegitation and fields
Passes people ( de'aths source)
Potential for injury.
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They are going down the pathway.
You old tit.
No they're not you fool.
It's a rough guide.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
It's the Blue route - 6978 metres.
Even the OS are saying it was a cycle option.
Google Maps shows the pathway leading to Pages Lane was wide. It it a pathway which leads to somewhere - Pages Lane or The Sea Wall. Depending on which way you go. So will be good terrain.
Sorry ILB.
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Does that rough map I've just put in Google give me an idea of how many roundabouts I will drive without starting the satalite navigation option?
No it doesn't, it's a rough guide. Like your source
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ILB has made false claims today -
There are steep inclines. No source provided
Bamber would have to cycle across fields. Debunked by Google Maps.
Very disappointing.
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ILB is now making more false claims -
Bad terrain. This refutes Wilkinsons WS. He has been there.
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Agree there is a potential to injury for Bamber.
He may fall off the bike and graze his knee.
Worth the risk for over 500k.
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Adam is changing the subject of the topic.
After realising he has been proven wrong.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
The 6978 route is the prosecution route -
Along The Sea Wall.
Up a cycle path for 0.4 miles.
Down Pages Lane.
Both sides need to accept this.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
The 6978 route is the prosecution route -
Along The Sea Wall.
Up a cycle path for 0.4 miles.
Down Pages Lane.
Both sides need to accept this.
The best current way to see how easy this would be, is to use Google Maps. Which I have done & come to a decision.
ILB can refute this by visiting the route. Photos required.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
The 6978 route is the prosecution route -
Along The Sea Wall.
Up a cycle path for 0.4 miles.
Down Pages Lane.
Both sides need to accept this.
None of us are disputing that
However your source doesn't describe
The terrain
The fields
The actual route
The vicinity
Google satellite does however. Which makes your pages lane claim fail. And fail bigstyle.
And that's before we even mention de'ath or darkness
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I will be surprised if ILB says any of the prosecution route is not accessible when he visits it.
This will refute a lot of other people over the last 39 years.
I look forward to his report and photos.
At present Google Maps is doing a good job. Just a pity Google 3D didn't go down Pages Lane.
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Adams refuses to accept his massive failure which is fine.
It's uploaded for all to see !
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None of us are disputing that
However your source doesn't describe
The terrain
The fields
The actual route
The vicinity
Google satellite does however. Which makes your pages lane claim fail. And fail bigstyle.
And that's before we even mention de'ath or darkness
Sorry I don't know what you are talking about again.
All you did was post a photo of a bit of the route. Then posted a photo of a field.
For me Google Maps Satellite gives an excellent view of the route.
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Either ILB is playing dumb on purpose.
Or he doesn't realise that roads can merge into cycle ways. This sort of thing will often happen in the country.
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Either ILB is playing dumb on purpose.
Or he doesn't realise that roads can merge into cycle ways. This sort of thing will often happen in the country.
In language you will understand I can't just look at a squiggly line and make assumptions.
So I look at a satalite aerial view and garner more fulfilling knowledge.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
As said route 6978 is on Google Maps Satellite. In my view giving an excellent view.
For me Google Maps Satellite clearly shows Pages Lane merging into a wide cycle/walk way. Which would be common in the country. It leads to The Sea Wall.
But appreciate ILB will never accept this as it makes Bamber's cycle ride easy.
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Seems Adam has lot the plot completely.
I'm not a medical professional and perhaps an intervention is required.
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The issue is only 0.4 miles - The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
If I thought he would have to cycle or carry the bike across fields, I would say so.
However Google Maps Satellite shows the path to be wide and an extension of Pages Lane. So certainly bike friendly.
Even the OS have the pathway as a route.
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Seems from my perspective Google satellite has put the theory to bed for good.
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Seems from my perspective Google satellite has put the theory to bed for good.
The prosecution must have been wrong for the last 39 years. They are the ones saying he cycled the cycle path from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane. The defence not disputing.
I enlarged Google Maps satellite. The cycle path looks about as wide as a car. Which is no surprise for a gap between fields on farm land.
The terrain will be fine for cycling.
But if your future photos show different, please post them.
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The prosecution must have been wrong for the last 39 years. They are the ones saying he cycled the cycle path from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane. The defence not disputing.
I enlarged Google Maps satellite. The cycle path looks about as wide as a car. Which is no surprise for a gap between fields on farm land.
The terrain will be fine for cycling.
But if your future photos show different, please post them.
Well the photo shows pages lane evaporating into fields.
Which RB and Bamber himself confirmed.
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Well the photo shows pages lane evaporating into fields.
Which RB and Bamber himself confirmed.
Pages Lane merges into a cycle path. This runs along the side of fields to The Sea Wall.
My estimate after enlarging Google Maps satellite is the cycle path is about as wide as a car. It is 0.4 miles long.
This is the prosecution route. As on the Official Site & Crmes that Shook Britain video.
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After enlarging Google Maps Satallite, my view is the cycle path is of good terrain.
This would not be surprising as it is path to either Pages Lane or The Sea Wall. Depending on which direction you cycle.
But could be wrong.
ILB will provide photos and give more details on the terrain after his visit.
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Pages Lane merges into a cycle path. This runs along the side of fields to The Sea Wall.
My estimate after enlarging Google Maps satellite is the cycle path is about as wide as a car. It is 0.4 miles long.
This is the prosecution route. As on the Official Site & Crmes that Shook Britain video.
No it doesntm
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No it doesntm
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
The prosecution route/6978 has Bamber turning left off The Sea Wall.
He then cycles 0.4 miles up the cycle path to Pages Lane. As said, in my estimation the cycle path is about as wide as a car.
You can report back with photos on the terrain of this after your visit.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
The prosecution route/6978 has Bamber turning left off The Sea Wall.
He then cycles 0.4 miles up the cycle path to Pages Lane. As said, in my estimation the cycle path is about as wide as a car.
You can report back with photos on the terrain of this after your visit.
How it's four fields good terrain ?
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Anyway as far as I am concerned there is a perfectly adequate cycle path. From The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
This is as wide as Pages Lane & 0.4 miles long.
It runs alongside the fields. As cycle paths do on farmland!
Wilkinson said - level terrain.
Anyone can go on Google Maps & check.
Can you post the actual route you are proposing Adam, because I cannot see a cycle path, a very unfriendly track maybe, but it's not a official public right of way?
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Can you post the actual route you are proposing Adam, because I cannot see a cycle path, a very unfriendly track maybe, but it's not a official public right of way?
He is trolling.
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He is trolling.
Yes I know ILB, I do a lot of walking when I get the time so am used to using maps, cycle path from the sea wall to Pages Lane I don't think so?
Lets see if Adam comes up with a route?
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Yes I know ILB, I do a lot of walking when I get the time so am used to using maps, cycle path from the sea wall to Pages Lane I don't think so?
Lets see if Adam comes up with a route?
Don't know why Adam is disputing the route going over fields
Jeremy and RB are on record stating it does and will both know the local area
Don't know what he is trying to achieve.
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Please elaborate on why Bamber would drive when he had a bike. Julie & the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall.
Don't just say you think he drove & then disappear from the forum for several weeks. Which you did last time.
I don't come here as much now, that's just the way it is.
I think he would have driven because it was easier. He may have done several dummy runs to see who was about at that time. Did Julie actually state that he cycled? As far as she was concerned, a MM was responsible for the actual murders and the prosecution gave the cycle as a possibility - they can't 'know' he used it.
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Don't know why Adam is disputing the route going over fields
Jeremy and RB are on record stating it does and will both know the local area
Don't know what he is trying to achieve.
I agree, also he states that the route from the sea wall to Pages Lane went no where near any properties but it does. It goes right through a farm!
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I don't come here as much now, that's just the way it is.
I think he would have driven because it was easier. He may have done several dummy runs to see who was about at that time. Did Julie actually state that he cycled? As far as she was concerned, a MM was responsible for the actual murders and the prosecution gave the cycle as a possibility - they can't 'know' he used it.
I agree, the prosecution just say he did because of the timings.
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Cycling looks good because a bike was his cottage and cycling adds more emphasis to a prosecution narrative " he went via cycle to be quiet and not be seen. Using the sea wall. Which one paper looks good because it's apparently a desolate track.
I think the truth is if gulity is he simply jumped in the car. The area was desolate and the houses he would encounter were set back. There's little risk in driving in itself. The biggest risk of driving is not been seen or heard but the car breaking down on the return journey to his cottage. As said if thst happened he would have been well and truly been up shit creek without a paddle. However the odds of that happening were probably slim, the astra car was pretty much brand new and probably well maintained. He later went to meet the police in the car without been seen. Bews remarking that Bambers car was the only one he saw.
He can if he wants to be extra cautious. Park half way down pages lane ( out of sight of farmworkers houses ) and simply saunter down to WHF. Do what he did. Leave the farmhouse get back in the car and return home.
I don't think Bamber was a guy who had much care about " risk " if anything he is rash, impulsive and risk taker. A man who can carry out of what he is convicted of is a large risk taker in itself. In the aftermath of the event he didn't even bother to act ( if he is gulity ) like a Bereaved relative, selling stuff, smuggling drugs, attempting to sell pictures of Shelia, mocking the coppers with his Hugo boss suit label. The guy if gulity told his girlfriend what he did and expected she would never breathe a word to anyone!
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The neighbour who saw his car parked outside all night is probably meaing before they went to bed at let's say midnight, his car was still there. Which of course it would be, as he didn't leave till a couple of hours later.
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I don't come here as much now, that's just the way it is.
I think he would have driven because it was easier. He may have done several dummy runs to see who was about at that time. Did Julie actually state that he cycled? As far as she was concerned, a MM was responsible for the actual murders and the prosecution gave the cycle as a possibility - they can't 'know' he used it.
Do you not think it's better to be safe for over 500k.
Driving past 45 properties, 90 people & security cameras because 'it's easier' is not much good if he spends 39 years in prison.
But each to there own.
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He is trolling.
You are the troll. A criminal one as well.
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Cycling looks good because a bike was his cottage and cycling adds more emphasis to a prosecution narrative " he went via cycle to be quiet and not be seen. Using the sea wall. Which one paper looks good because it's apparently a desolate track.
I think the truth is if gulity is he simply jumped in the car. The area was desolate and the houses he would encounter were set back. There's little risk in driving in itself. The biggest risk of driving is not been seen or heard but the car breaking down on the return journey to his cottage. As said if thst happened he would have been well and truly been up shit creek without a paddle. However the odds of that happening were probably slim, the astra car was pretty much brand new and probably well maintained. He later went to meet the police in the car without been seen. Bews remarking that Bambers car was the only one he saw.
He can if he wants to be extra cautious. Park half way down pages lane ( out of sight of farmworkers houses ) and simply saunter down to WHF. Do what he did. Leave the farmhouse get back in the car and return home.
I don't think Bamber was a guy who had much care about " risk " if anything he is rash, impulsive and risk taker. A man who can carry out of what he is convicted of is a large risk taker in itself. In the aftermath of the event he didn't even bother to act ( if he is gulity ) like a Bereaved relative, selling stuff, smuggling drugs, attempting to sell pictures of Shelia, mocking the coppers with his Hugo boss suit label. The guy if gulity told his girlfriend what he did and expected she would never breathe a word to anyone!
Each to there own.
You are more reckless. Which resulted in a 12 stretch.
I would take the least risk approach - passing no properties.
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Don't know why Adam is disputing the route going over fields
Jeremy and RB are on record stating it does and will both know the local area
Don't know what he is trying to achieve.
It goes alongside fields. Which is why the prosecution has it as there route.
They are not going to have a route which goes across fields.
You know this.
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Can you post the actual route you are proposing Adam, because I cannot see a cycle path, a very unfriendly track maybe, but it's not a official public right of way?
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
Route 6978. The prosecution route.
You will have to go on Google Maps satellite to see the cycle path from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall.
You can enlarge Google Maps. You will see the cycle path is around the width of a car.
But appreciate you will always call it 'a very unfriendly track'.
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ILB says The Sea Wall is 'heavily populated'.
Then says there is no access to it!
-
A cycle path the width of a car (me). Or 'a very unfriendly track' (Rob).
Either way the prosecution said he cycled it. Which was only 0.4 miles.
ILB will post lots of photos of it after his visit.
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Each to there own.
You are more reckless. Which resulted in a 12 stretch.
I would take the least risk approach - passing no properties.
9 and half years actually.
-
I have realised ILB is a 'disrupter' poster.
He will dispute everything that goes against Bamber. This is because he has a beef with the legal system as an ex prisoner.
This disrupting will be by debate, name calling, abuse, goading, denial, GIF's, unrelated images & diversion.
I hope he is honest when taking photos.
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At least Rob says there is 'a very unfriendly track'.
Wouldn't call a track as wide as a car that. Besides which no one said a route that avoided all properties was going to have the red carpet laid out.
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I have realised ILB is a 'disrupter' poster.
He will dispute everything that goes against Bamber. This is because he has a beef with the legal system as an ex prisoner.
This disrupting will be by debate, name calling, abuse, goading, denial, GIF's, unrelated images & diversion.
I hope he is honest when taking photos.
Completely wrong as per usual.
I have no issue with the police or the legal system.I just call it how it is. A common sense approach.
You give abuse out as well, you are ageist, and you like to dictate the agenda. You are a troll. I've seen you been called out for such on the Jeremy Bamber FB discussion group.
In this particular instancr ou are making false claims about the sea wall. How am I sticking up for Bamber? I am on the fence. I believe if gulity he drove. Which I've referenced on numerous occasions.
What do you want me to say to your bullshit theories? " Oh yes jolly good Adam" " that sounds right "
You can't blame me if I disagree. It's a forum.
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Completely wrong as per usual.
I have no issue with the police or the legal system.I just call it how it is. A common sense approach.
You give abuse out as well, you are ageist, and you like to dictate the agenda. You are a troll. I've seen you been called out for such on the Jeremy Bamber FB discussion group.
What do you want me to say to your bullshit theories? " Oh yes jolly good Adam"
You can't blame me if I disagree. It's a forum.
You agree you dispute everything that goes against Bamber? Using the methods I mentioned.
Bit hard to deny it as it's all over the forum!
I will call you a name if you call me one.
Mike & Guest29835 also had a beef with the police. Everyone has there reasons for supporting Bamber.
-
Anyway -
The prosecution believe Bamber took a left turn up the cycle path to Pages Lane - 0.4 miles.
I agree & using 2024 technology believe the cycle path was as wide as a car.
Rob believes it looks like a 'very unfriendly track'.
ILB says there is no track & no access to the heavily populated Sea Wall!
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You agree you dispute everything that goes against Bamber? Using the methods I mentioned.
Bit hard to deny it as it's all over the forum!
I will call you a name if you call me one.
Mike & Guest29835 had a beef with the police. Everyone has there reasons for supporting Bamber.
I am not a supporter.
I just have an interest in the case.
You are trying to goad, you have been called out for this on Facebook.
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I am not a supporter.
I just have an interest in the case.
You are trying to goad, you have been called out for this on Facebook.
Says the man who posts GIF's.
You are a supporter. A hardcore one as well. You dispute all evidence against Bamber.
-
Anyway -
The prosecution believe Bamber took a left turn up the cycle path to Pages Lane - 0.4 miles.
I agree & using 2024 technology believe the cycle path was as wide as a car.
Rob believes it looks like a 'very unfriendly track'.
ILB says there is no track & no access to the heavily populated Sea Wall!
Anyway, I can't see these stances changing. One of them is 39 years old!
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Says the man who posts GIF's.
You are a supporter. A hardcore one as well. You dispute all evidence against Bamber.
If you post things I disagree with. I will highlight it and give my opinion.
It is not my fault I can't agree with most of if not all of your theories. Which are often not backed up and bordering on the ridiculous. I don't apologise for that.
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Anyway, I can't see these stances changing. One of them is 39 years old!
I guess the landscape must have changed then.
Adam is suggesting the five fields that are between the sea wall and WHF must have been planted in 1987.
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I guess the landscape must have changed then.
Adam is suggesting the five fields that are between the sea wall and WHF must have been planted in 1987.
ILB is suggesting there are no cycle paths between fields.
Leading from Pages Lane to the 'heavily populated' Sea Wall.
Even Rob disagrees!
-
If you post things I disagree with. I will highlight it and give my opinion.
It is not my fault I can't agree with most of if not all of your theories. Which are often not backed up and bordering on the ridiculous. I don't apologise for that.
Well I did provide a Google Maps Satallite source yesterday.
But you went into disruption mode.
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ILB is suggesting there are cycle paths between fields.
Leading from Pages Lane to the 'heavily populated' Sea Wall.
Even Rob disagrees!
No there isn't, I have never suggested that.
I said the end of pages lane evaporates to fields.
There you go again, being a troll.
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No there isn't, I have never suggested that.
I said the end of pages lane evaporates to fields.
There you go again, being a troll.
Have amended my post.
-
No there isn't, I have never suggested that.
I said the end of pages lane evaporates to fields.
There you go again, being a troll.
Do you believe there are gaps between fields?
-
Do you believe there are gaps between fields?
Do you mean do I believe are they paths between fields ?
-
If there are gaps between fields, not sure what else there are supposed to be. Rather than footpaths.
Obviously Pages Lane to The Sea Wall was a big foot/cycle path as it lead to/from The Sea Wall.
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Do you mean do I believe are they paths between fields ?
What else is a gap for. Espescially one leading from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall?
-
ILB says -
The Sea Wall was too dark to cycle.
Then says it was 'heavily populated' at 2am'.
Now says there is no foot or cycle path to it!
-
What else is a gap for. Espescially one leading from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall?
Pages lane doesn't lead direct to the sea wall according the Google satellite.
-
ILB says -
The Sea Wall was too dark to cycle.
Then says it was 'heavily populated' at 2am'.
Now says there is no foot or cycle path to it!
What has a populated sea wall at 2am have anything to do with pages lane.
People won't access the sea wall from pages lane.
-
So we now have -
A heavily populated Sea Wall at 2am of which there is no access!
-
Pages lane doesn't lead direct to the sea wall according the Google satellite.
I disagree.
The prosecution disagree with that. They did go there.
Please answer my questions -
Do you believe there are gaps between fields on farm land?
If yes, do you believe they would be walking/cycle friendly.
Do you believe there would be a cycle path from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall?
-
So we now have -
A heavily populated Sea Wall at 2am of which there is no access!
Nice try but one again you fail
The sea wall is from Maldon to tollsebury with numerous access points along the route.
-
Nice try but one again you fail
The sea wall is from Maldon to tollsebury with numerous access points along the route.
So everyone travels 7 miles to get onto Bamber's 'dark' route.
-
I disagree.
The prosecution disagree with that. They did go there.
Please answer my questions -
Do you believe there are gaps between fields on farm land?
If yes, do you believe they would be walking/cycle friendly.
Do you believe there would be a cycle path from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall?
1) no such things as " gaps" there in some cases a walking track between the fields.
2) it all depends on the field in question
3) it's not what I believe, it's what is the truth. There are five fields intercrossing between the sea wall and WHF. The pages lane path evaporates into fielding.
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I disagree.
The prosecution disagree with that. They did go there.
Please answer my questions -
Do you believe there are gaps between fields on farm land?
If yes, do you believe they would be walking/cycle friendly.
Do you believe there would be a cycle path from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall?
Then you are calling Robert boutflour who knew the land intimately a liar.
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So everyone travels 7 miles to get onto Bamber's 'dark' route.
No I didn't say that again you troll. As said numerous access points on the wall.
Using de'ath as a reliable source ( in ref to her knowledge of Bambers route and the population ,)
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Bamber can't say he didn't know about the cycle path at the end of Pages Lane.
It was 0.2 miles from WHF!
-
Bamber can't say he didn't know about the cycle path at the end of Pages Lane.
It was 0.2 miles from WHF!
There isn't a cycle path.
-
No I didn't say that again you troll. As said numerous access points on the wall.
Using de'ath as a reliable source ( in ref to her knowledge of Bambers route and the population ,)
Your the troll. An alcoholic disruptor one as well.
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Cycling looks good because a bike was his cottage and cycling adds more emphasis to a prosecution narrative " he went via cycle to be quiet and not be seen. Using the sea wall. Which one paper looks good because it's apparently a desolate track.
I think the truth is if gulity is he simply jumped in the car. The area was desolate and the houses he would encounter were set back. There's little risk in driving in itself. The biggest risk of driving is not been seen or heard but the car breaking down on the return journey to his cottage. As said if thst happened he would have been well and truly been up shit creek without a paddle. However the odds of that happening were probably slim, the astra car was pretty much brand new and probably well maintained. He later went to meet the police in the car without been seen. Bews remarking that Bambers car was the only one he saw.
He can if he wants to be extra cautious. Park half way down pages lane ( out of sight of farmworkers houses ) and simply saunter down to WHF. Do what he did. Leave the farmhouse get back in the car and return home.
I don't think Bamber was a guy who had much care about " risk " if anything he is rash, impulsive and risk taker. A man who can carry out of what he is convicted of is a large risk taker in itself. In the aftermath of the event he didn't even bother to act ( if he is gulity ) like a Bereaved relative, selling stuff, smuggling drugs, attempting to sell pictures of Shelia, mocking the coppers with his Hugo boss suit label. The guy if gulity told his girlfriend what he did and expected she would never breathe a word to anyone!
I think a bike would be more conspicuous
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There isn't a cycle path.
Are you blind?
Even Rob says there is a track.
It has been the prosecution case for 39 years.
You tit.
-
I think a bike would be more conspicuous
The Sea Wall route passed no properties.
You think he chugged along in his car past 90 people & security cameras. Each to there own.
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The neighbour who saw his car parked outside all night is probably meaing before they went to bed at let's say midnight, his car was still there. Which of course it would be, as he didn't leave till a couple of hours later.
I wouldn't notice if my neighbours left/arrived at any time. You just become accustomed and don't notice such things. Plus the neighbour wasn't asked until weeks later.
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I wouldn't notice if my neighbours left/arrived at any time. You just become accustomed and don't notice such things. Plus the neighbour wasn't asked until weeks later.
Do you think the Prosecution were wrong to say he cycled The Sea Wall?
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I think ILB may have the same mentality Bamber has.
He is able to blank something out. At present he is saying there is no.cycle track from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall.
Even though Google Maps shows one and it's been the prosecution route for 39 years!
Maybe it is a trait criminals can switch on for themselves.
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Are you blind?
Even Rob says there is a track.
It has been the prosecution case for 39 years.
You tit.
Goes through another farm you fucking idiot.
As RB said he had to go over fields you tit
-
Goes through numerous fields.
At 2am in the pitch black
Madam is wrong again.
-
Goes through another farm you fucking idiot.
As RB said he had to go over fields you tit
The cycle path goes through 6 fields.
It is called having gaps/a cycle path between fields.
It is also callled access between Pages Lane & The Sea Wall.
It has been the prosecution route since 1985.
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I think ILB may have the same mentality Bamber has.
He is able to blank something out. At present he is saying there is no.cycle track from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall.
Even though Google Maps shows one and it's been the prosecution route for 39 years!
Maybe it is a trait criminals can switch on for themselves.
There is a farm track or some sort of track that goes through another farm with no lighting you tit.
You said cycle track.
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Adam is saying Bamber would not take a risk cycling past properties ( which are set back )
But he would cycle through them!
-
Goes through numerous fields.
At 2am in the pitch black
Madam is wrong again.
Agree it was around 2am.
Agree it was outside darkness.
Agree it goes through fields - people call that a pathway.
-
Adam is saying Bamber would not take a risk cycling past properties ( which are set back )
But he would cycle through them!
The Sea Wall route passed no properties.
Miller - 'No one would see him in a million years'.
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The Sea Wall route passed no properties.
Miller - 'No one would see him in a million years'.
Adam it goes through a farm.
It's a rough track.
It's 2am
It also goes under trees and shrubbery.
He has to go over s property. Someone's private land.
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The Sea Wall route passed no properties.
Miller - 'No one would see him in a million years'.
Also please don't call me an alcoholic. The name is a moninker. Next time I will report such a comment.
Regards
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There is a farm track or some sort of track that goes through another farm with no lighting you tit.
You said cycle track.
Farm track, cycle track, footpath.
All that mattered was he could cycle the 0.4 miles to get to Pages Lane.
We disagree on wherher there was enough light. The Prosecution & defence believe there was.
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I wouldn't notice if my neighbours left/arrived at any time. You just become accustomed and don't notice such things. Plus the neighbour wasn't asked until weeks later.
Adam knows if gulity he drove.
He is trying to be awkward.
-
Also please don't call me an alcoholic. The name is a moninker. Next time I will report such a comment.
Regards
Please don't call me a troll.
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Farm track, cycle track, footpath.
All that mattered was he could cycle the 0.4 miles to get to Pages Lane.
We disagree on wherher there was enough light. The Prosecution & defence believe there was.
Again you are making assumptions.
Have you asked Paul Terzeon or Bamber himself ?
Bamber calls the idea ridiculous he along with RB says " over fields , not by them. And it is correct otherwise he would go through a neighbouring farm.
Both Bamber and RB having intimate knowledge of the vicinity
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Adam it goes through a farm.
It's a rough track.
It's 2am
It also goes under trees and shrubbery.
He has to go over s property. Someone's private land.
What farm? There are no properties on The Sea Wall.
Agree it's 2am.
Agree the terrain is not concrete. But still fine.
Agree there is a few yards of trees.
-
Please don't call me a troll.
It is not just me.
You have also conducted such behaviour on the Jeremy Bamber Facebook page.
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The only property is at the beginning of Pages Lane.
He can either cycle around it. Or cycle past it at a high speed.
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What farm? There are no properties on The Sea Wall.
Agree it's 2am.
Agree the terrain is not concrete. But still fine.
Agree there is a few yards of trees.
Do you agree that
It's pitch black
No lighting
Can't see shit
-
Just not looking feasible to me.
Darkness, going past properties, populated sea wall,
I'm being totally honest.
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ILB wants the perfect terrain cycle route.
Now he is mentioning a few yards of trees!
-
Do you agree that
It's pitch black
No lighting
Can't see shit
Agree with the prosecution. There was enough light for him.
The cycle path was 0.2 miles from WHF for goodness sake. He won't get lost in the dark.
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ILB wants the perfect terrain cycle route.
Now he is mentioning a few yards of trees!
It isn't a case of terrain on pages lane.
It is
Complete darkness
Goes right through private property
Populated sea wall
Cumbersome
-
Would help if I could do directions on Google satellite
-
Just not looking feasible to me.
Darkness, going past properties, populated sea wall,
I'm being totally honest.
You have had your fun with BD & the 'populated Sea Wall'.
She has not responded to your message. So her article is dismissed.
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It isn't a case of terrain on pages lane.
It is
Complete darkness
Goes right through private property
Populated sea wall
Cumbersome
I thought Bamber would drive through 45 properties.
Now you are saying he wouldn't cycle past/around 1!
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You have had your fun with BD & the 'populated Sea Wall'.
She has not responded to your message. So her article is dismissed.
Didn't have my fun at all.
The message will have gone in her spam folder.
Why did GG take his blog down ?
-
I thought Bamber would drive through 45 properties.
Now you are saying he wouldn't cycle past/around 1!
It goes through the property you tit.
The other farm may have security cameras
It could set the dogs off, anything.
-
In fact it goes through three potential properties and farms !
I always was under the impression pages lane catered just for WHF and wyck farm
Guess I was wrong.
-
It goes through the property you tit.
The other farm may have security cameras
It could set the dogs off, anything.
Where is this property where Bamber has to turn into a superhero and cycle through?
-
It goes through the property you tit.
The other farm may have security cameras
It could set the dogs off, anything.
Please don't call me that.
Otherwise I will bring up your alcoholisn and criminal activities.
-
Please don't call me that.
Otherwise I will bring up your alcoholisn and criminal activities.
Not an alcoholic Mr Collins.
No longer a criminal Mr Collins.
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In fact it goes through three potential properties and farms !
I always was under the impression pages lane catered just for WHF and wyck farm
Guess I was wrong.
So he cycles through the pathway past the property.
There are trees on the pathway giving him good cover.
Or he can cycle round the back of it.
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So he cycles through the pathway past the property.
There are trees on the pathway giving him good cover.
Or he can cycle round the back of it.
Very risky
Dogs barking alerting
Security cameras
Pitch black
-
Not an alcoholic Mr Collins.
No longer a criminal Mr Collins.
What are you talking about?
You call yourself 'I love booze' & did at least one long term inside.
Anyway as said, please do not call me that.
-
Very risky
Dogs barking alerting
Security cameras
Pitch black
I thought he chugged along past 90 people, 45 properties and security cameras.
-
What are you talking about?
You call yourself 'I love booze'.
Anyway as said, please do not call me that.
It's a moniker.
Please don't reference my criminal past and call me an active criminal.
Not nice is it.
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I thought he chugged along past 90 people, 45 properties and security cameras.
You know full well security cameras cover properties and not roads
You are saying he went THROUGH properties not PAST
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You know full well security cameras cover properties and not roads
You are saying he went THROUGH properties not PAST
Security cameras cover roads and driveways.
At least you agree Pages Lane now leads to a cycle path. Took long enough.
-
You know full well security cameras cover properties and not roads
You are saying he went THROUGH properties not PAST
He would cycle along Pages Lane. Going past one property which has trees covering it.
-
Security cameras cover roads and driveways.
At least you agree Pages Lane now leads to a cycle path. Took long enough.
A rough track Mr Collins yes.
-
He would cycle along Pages Lane. Going past one property which has trees covering it.
He would go through 3. Photo supplied
-
We both know deep down he drove if gulity.
-
We both know deep down he drove if gulity.
I agree with the prosecution & defence.
Even Bamber wouldn't be as reckless as you.
Straight forward 20 minute cycle ride on good flat terrain.
But those trees might be a problem!
-
A rough track Mr Collins yes.
Good.
Wow that was hard work.
Even Rob instantly agreed there was a track leading to/from The Sea Wall. .
-
I agree with the prosecution & defence.
Even Bamber wouldn't be as reckless as you.
Straight forward 20 minute cycle ride on good flat terrain.
But those trees might be a problem!
I wouldn't cycle through three farms.
Bamber is much more reckless than me if gulity. Which Is why he hasn't known a days freedom since the age of 24 and as it stands is in jail for the rest of his life on a whole life order.
I haven't been to jail in years, long term partner, children, self employment.
-
Good.
Wow that was hard work.
Even Rob instantly agreed there was a track leading to/from The Sea Wall. .
There is a track.
RB and Bamber both reference fields
Both are local men.
I am not.
Guess both are lying.
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I wouldn't cycle through three farms.
Bamber is much more reckless than me if gulity. Which Is why he hasn't known a days freedom since the age of 24 and as it stands is in jail for the rest of his life on a whole life order.
I haven't been to jail in years, long term partner, children, self employment.
It is not cycling through, it is cycling on Pages Lane past the properties. Or he can go around them.
You would chug along in your car past properties, people and cameras. Now you are scared of cycling past a property.
-
Obviously the track goes through the 3 properties.
I was wrong I thought there was just and wick farm.
Too risky as said barking dogs, security cameras, farmers being awake
Darkness, cumbersome
All the while a brand new Vauxhall Astra parked outside your cottage.
-
There is a track.
RB and Bamber both reference fields
Both are local men.
I am not.
Guess both are lying.
Yes there are fields. There is also a cycle path running along them.
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It is not cycling through, it is cycling on Pages Lane past the properties. Or he can go around them.
You would chug along in your car past properties, people and cameras. Now you are scared of cycling past a property.
We are going to end up going through the road routes
I know you are trolling, but on the 2 per cent chance you not I go through it with you and compare.
-
Yes there are fields. There is also a cycle path running along them.
Both Bamber and RB reference going over the fields
-
Obviously the track goes through the 3 properties.
I was wrong I thought there was just and wick farm.
Too risky as said barking dogs, security cameras, farmers being awake
Darkness, cumbersome
All the while a brand new Vauxhall Astra parked outside your cottage.
Well the prosecution said he cycled.
They have supplied the route.
The defence did not dispute.
-
Both Bamber and RB reference going over the fields
Bamber. That's reliable.
Why would he have to go over fields? There was a cycle path as wide as a car.
Please provide RB's source.
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Obviously the track goes through the 3 properties.
I was wrong I thought there was just and wick farm.
Too risky as said barking dogs, security cameras, farmers being awake
Darkness, cumbersome
All the while a brand new Vauxhall Astra parked outside your cottage.
Barking dogs. From a silent bike?
The property was well covered by trees.
To cycle past those properties - 5 seconds.
Or he can cycle around them.
-
These 3 properties are a long way from the edge of Pages Lane. There are a lot of trees around.
He had the choice of cycling past them or going around the back of them.
-
As ILB says, it was dark.
There were also trees and the properties on Pages Lane were a long way from Pages Lane.
Suspect Bamber just cycled past them. As fast as he could.
-
Barking dogs. From a silent bike?
The property was well covered by trees.
To cycle past those properties - 5 seconds.
Or he can cycle around them.
Spotlights on the property would come on automatic.
Security cameras
Dogs
Private land.
Very risky
-
In fact very very risky it the chance of the ID.
The farm owners would know Bamber, wasn't some randomer! His childhood home was seconds away !
-
Spotlights on the property would come on automatic.
Security cameras
Dogs
Private land.
Very risky
Spotlights? I thought he was cycling in the dark.
None of those things would stop me for over 500k. And I take the careful approach.
Private land. It was properties yards off Pages Lane.
Bamber could check for security cameras. WHF was 0.2 miles away on the same Lane!
-
Spotlights? I thought he was cycling in the dark.
None of those things would stop me for over 500k. And I take the careful approach.
Private land. It was properties yards off Pages Lane.
Bamber could check for security cameras. WHF was 0.2 miles away on the same Lane!
The route goes through the other farm
I'm being generous here in saying he could complete it on darkness on the first instance..
Giving you the benefit of the doubt!
-
In fact very very risky it the chance of the ID.
The farm owners would know Bamber, wasn't some randomer! His childhood home was seconds away !
I thought everyone would be asleep at 2am. Which is why he drove.
At least you are trying to create obstacles for something we both agree exists. Denying there was a pathway from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall wastes a lot of time.
-
These 3 properties are a long way from the edge of Pages Lane. There are a lot of trees around.
He had the choice of cycling past them or going around the back of them.
The route goes through the three properties.
-
I thought everyone would be asleep at 2am. Which is why he drove.
At least you are trying to create obstacles for something we both agree exists. Denying there was a pathway from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall wastes a lot of time.
Good diversion tactic attempt 7 out of ten.
In fairness without visiting the place myself I'm not one hundred per cent sure.
And even if I am I have to go by Bamber and RWB.
As a none local.
The fact the route was populated, dark, and now went through three properties has made it less than 1 percent feasible so far.
-
The route goes through the other farm
I'm being generous here in saying he could complete it on darkness on the first instance..
Giving you the benefit of the doubt!
Just measured the distance between the 3 properties - 150 metres.
Cycling past them at 100% would be 5 - 10 seconds. Which would be silent.
Bamber can always check from afar to make sure there is no movement.
-
Seems part of the route takes Bamber past livestock.
In the pitch black !
I need to inspect this route for myself, it's ridiculous.
-
Just measured the distance between the 3 properties - 150 metres.
Cycling past them at 100% would be 5 - 10 seconds. Which would be silent.
Bamber can always check from afar to make sure there is no movement.
Yeah course you did pal :))
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Just measured the distance between the 3 properties - 150 metres.
Cycling past them at 100% would be 5 - 10 seconds. Which would be silent.
Bamber can always check from afar to make sure there is no movement.
From afar ?
He has to go past them again according to what you are saying !
-
Good diversion tactic attempt 7 out of ten.
In fairness without visiting the place myself I'm not one hundred per cent sure.
And even if I am I have to go by Bamber and RWB.
As a none local.
The fact the route was populated, dark, and now went through three properties has made it less than 1 percent feasible so far.
Please don't say it was populated. That ship has sailed.
We both agree there was a pathway and 3 properties on Pages Lane.
I won't chase you for RB's source. He probably did say Bamber would cycle across fields, using the pathways.
-
Yeah course you did pal :))
Do you not know how to measure distances on Google maps?
-
From afar ?
He has to go past them again according to what you are saying !
Yes he would have cycled past them on the way there and back.
As said he can make sure there is no movement before cycling past. Doubt there would be at 2am.
Or he can cycle around the back of the smaller property.
-
Do you not know how to measure distances on Google maps?
You shouldnt be on maps you should be on satalite
-
Yes he would have cycled past them on the way there and back.
As said he can make sure there is no movement before cycling past. Doubt there would be at 2am.
Or he can cycle around the back of the smaller property.
He cycled through them Adam. 3 private properties.
His journey prior in the pitch black without lighting !
On according to de'ath a populated route.
Agree with Bamber to be honest! Laughable, madness
-
Anyway Bamber's cycle route -
Out of the back garden.
Avoiding Fish Street properties. Less properties there in 85. Thistley Close not there.
Onto The Sea Wall.
Left onto the pathway.
Onto Pages Lane.
Past/around 3 properties.
Leave bike where he wants.
-
Not buying pages lane for 100 percent until I make a visit. In terms of easy connectivity wise.
-
Anyway Bamber's cycle route -
Out of the back garden.
Avoiding Fish Street properties. Less properties there in 85. Thistley Close not there.
Onto The Sea Wall.
Left onto the pathway.
Onto Pages Lane.
Past/around 3 properties.
Leave bike where he wants.
" Leave the bike where he wants "
Adam is now suggesting he took a taxi back to goldhanger!
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In fact, have you been on satalite Adam ?
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He cycled through them Adam. 3 private properties.
His journey prior in the pitch black without lighting !
On according to de'ath a populated route.
Agree with Bamber to be honest! Laughable, madness
It was outside darkness. Pitch black is locked in a cupboard at night.
Through, past, around. What is the difference?
Actually now going to think where Bamber left his bike.
He could have left it at the end if Pages Lane. It was only 0.2 miles from WHF.
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So he now leaves his bike in complete darkness. ( His mum's bike s few hundred yards from WHF)
Running the risk of not being able to retrieve it, which if not wearing gloves would have his prints all over it.But the biggest question would be ( in his mind ) The police would want to know why your mums bike was found down a desolate lane )
He then walks through three private farms
Spotlights
Dogs
Security cameras
Farmers up and about
Known visually.
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To be honest I don't believe Bamber would leave the bike at the beginning of Pages Lane. Then walk.
He would cycle past/through/round the 3 properties. Then leave the bike around yards from WHF.
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So he now leaves his bike in complete darkness. ( His mum's bike s few hundred yards from WHF)
Running the risk of not being able to retrieve it, which if not wearing gloves would have his prints all over it.But the biggest question would be ( in his mind ) The police would want to know why your mums bike was found down a desolate lane )
He then walks through three private farms
Spotlights
Dogs
Security cameras
Farmers up and about
Known visually.
Spotlights/pitch black.
Farmers about/driving.
Security cameras/no security cameras.
Make your mind up.
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I think Bamber would risk leaving June's bike outside.
Tuesday was the Pages Lane 2am bike theives night off!
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You ask me enough questions let me ask you, I'm not being patronising
1 Do you believe Bamber is a gulity man?
,2) Do you believe a person who committs a crime of this magnitude is a risk taker ?
3) Do you accept in the aftermath Bamber made no attempt to cover his tracks?
4) do you believe that Bamber engaged in risky behaviour post the crime ?
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Farmers out at 2am?
No wonder Bamber wasn't happy.
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Adam thinks a man who kills five people including two children would be " scared " to complete a 16 minute car journey.
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You ask me enough questions let me ask you, I'm not being patronising
1 Do you believe Bamber is a gulity man?
,2) Do you believe a person who committs a crime of this magnitude is a risk taker ?
3) Do you accept in the aftermath Bamber made no attempt to cover his tracks?
4) do you believe that Bamber engaged in risky behaviour post the crime ?
1: Yes.
2: All crimes a risk. The offender believes they have limited the risks.
3: Yes.
4: Callous behaviour.
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Adam thinks a man who kills five people including two children would be " scared " to complete a 16 minute car journey.
Broom broom.
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Yet In the meantime if gulity
Framed an innocent man
Confessed to his girlfriend.
Tried to sell softcore porn pictures of his late sister to a red top newspaper
Went on the piss up often
Smuggled drugs from Holland
Callously put his mum's beloved dog down " cos he might knacker my stereo equipment )
Mocked police
Told the father of the two children he murdered days before " once the twins are off your hands it will be a millstone removed from your neck, you'll get work."
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1: Yes.
2: All crimes a risk. The offender believes they have limited the risks.
3: Yes.
4: Callous behaviour.
Please answer two again correctly.
This is not a crime of nicking a mars bar from Tesco, or a pub fight. He broke into a property and committed five counts of murder if gulity. Very different risk level. Be realistic.
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Yet In the meantime if gulity
Framed an innocent man
Confessed to his girlfriend.
Tried to sell softcore porn pictures of his late sister to a red top newspaper
Went on the piss up often
Smuggled drugs from Holland
Callously put his mum's beloved dog down " cos he might knacker my stereo equipment )
Mocked police
Told the father of the two children he murdered days before " once the twins are off your hands it will be a millstone removed from your neck, you'll get work."
These are all different threads.
At the moment am still learning about the prosecution cycle route.
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These are all different threads.
At the moment am still learning about the prosecution cycle route.
It's about risk taking
Do you believe all those things I've listed if gulity are risky?
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And your saying in comparison a short drive along deserted streets in a small hamlet in 1985 is a " big risk !
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Please answer two again correctly.
This is not a crime of nicking a mars bar from Tesco, or a pub fight. He broke into a property and committed five counts of murder if gulity. Very different risk level. Be realistic.
Yes he took a risk. Thought it was worth the risk for over 500k.
Prior to that he was not a big risk taker. Inheritance killers usually are not.
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Yes he took a risk. Thought it was worth the risk for over 500k.
Prior to that he was not a big risk taker. Inheritance killers usually are not.
So driving a car 16 minutes is not a risk is it ?
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And your saying in comparison a short drive along deserted streets in a small hamlet in 1985 is a " big risk !
Appreciate you believe he drove.
I have looked at both driving and cycling. I would cycle - via The Sea Wall/Pages Lane.
The prosecution believed he cycled. They had a point, a bike arrived at his cottage 2 days before!
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Appreciate you believe he drove.
I have looked at both driving and cycling. I would cycle - via The Sea Wall/Pages Lane.
The prosecution believed he cycled. They had a point, a bike arrived at his cottage 2 days before!
Well in fairness they got a 10 to 2 majority against him. But yes he was convicted I admit.
Transport was never proved either way and to this day remains speculative.
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I've never been a hardcore Bamber supporter. I'm independent.
Will always be on the fence.
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Talking to friend about what she would do if she took a bag of 500k from outside a bank.
I would spend the day travelling around London on different trains, tubes and buses. As well as walk. Try to make a couple of clothes/bag changes during it. Pay for things by cash.
This is so CCTV couldn't keep track of me.
Would then hide the money for several months.
She said she would go straight home!
People have different approaches during a crime.
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London in 2024 is different to Goldhanger tollshunt Darcy in 1985.
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Today if the crime had happened we wouldn't be having a ", who dunnit discussion " 39 years later.
Police have too much technology these days times have changed. Crimes are solved much easier
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London in 2024 is different to Goldhanger tollshunt Darcy in 1985.
Referring to the level of risk people take. Before, during and after a crime.
Me cycling to/from WHF = travelling around London.
Worth the extra effort to get more chance of getting 500k.
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https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
Route 6978. The prosecution route.
You will have to go on Google Maps satellite to see the cycle path from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall.
You can enlarge Google Maps. You will see the cycle path is around the width of a car.
But appreciate you will always call it 'a very unfriendly track'.
There is no cycle path from the end of Pages Lane to the Sea Wall that I can see Adam?
Also the route looks like it goes right through a farm?
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There is no cycle path from the end of Pages Lane to the Sea Wall that I can see Adam?
Also the route looks like it goes right through a farm?
Appreciate you call it an unfriendly track.
The properties are on Pages Lane. Not the cycle path. Already been discussed.
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Looking at Google maps again, there is a left turn off The Sea Wall. Just prior to the prosecution turn off.
Following this footpath would take you past the properties on Pages Lane.
This footpath does not look as good as the prosecution cycle path.
At the end of the day, up to Bamber. He would know!
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Appreciate you call it an unfriendly track.
The properties are on Pages Lane. Not the cycle path. Already been discussed.
Non of these tracks are what most people would call a cycle track especially in the dark Adam, I have never seen anyone cycling along a public right of way in daylight let alone in total darkness.
As far as I can see there is no public right of way from the sea wall to the bottom of pages lane unless you go through yet another farm?
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Referring to the level of risk people take. Before, during and after a crime.
Me cycling to/from WHF = travelling around London.
Worth the extra effort to get more chance of getting 500k.
So am I
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Non of these tracks are what most people would call a cycle track especially in the dark Adam, I have never seen anyone cycling along a public footpath in daylight let alone in total darkness.
As far as I can see there is no public right of way from the sea wall to the bottom of pages lane unless you go through yet another farm?
Never seen anyone cycle on a footpath. Wow. Guess June bought the bike for no reason.
The cycle path from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall is the width of a car. In my view that is wide enough to cycle.
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If ILB can check both the prosecution cycle path, and the path directly before it.
With daylight photos.
Be interesting to know if the other path could be cycled.
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Never seen anyone cycle on a footpath. Wow. Guess June bought the bike for no reason.
The cycle path from Pages Lane to The Sea Wall is the width of a car. In my view that is wide enough to cycle.
If you look closely it's a route tractors take I think Adam? It would be deeply rutted etc. not suitable for cycles though ok if on foot.
Public rights of way are not cycle lanes, they are often ploughed over every year anyway.
I am hoping you can put Bambers hat on and propose a route that someone could cycle along in total darkness and not go near any properties?
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If you look closely it's a route tractors take I think Adam? It would be deeply rutted etc. not suitable for cycles though ok if on foot.
Public rights of way are not cycle lanes, they are often ploughed over every year anyway.
I am hoping you can put Bambers hat on and propose a route that someone could cycle along in total darkness and not go near any properties?
Good point. Tractors are common on farms. Which is a reason there are pathways between fields and they are wide.
I don't believe a tractor being on the pathway would mean it can't be cycled.
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Good point. Tractors are common on farms. Which is a reason there are pathways between fields and they are wide.
I don't believe a tractor being on the pathway would mean it can't be cycled.
As far as I can see the only public right of way would be via Lauriston and Wycke farms? the route you are suggesting is not on a complete public right of way so it's condition at any point in time could greatly vary?
If you don't want to be serious and just time waste please don't reply.
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As far as I can see the only public right of way would be via Lauriston and Wycke farms? the route you are suggesting is not on a complete public right of way so it's condition at any point in time could greatly vary?
If you don't want to be serious and just time waste please don't reply.
We both agree the paths were wide. As tractors go down them.
I don't agree that a tractor going down a path would mean you can't cycle down it.
At the moment am sticking with the prosecution route. But would like to know more about the left turn just before there.
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We both agree the paths were wide. As tractors go down them.
I don't agree that a tractor going down a path would mean you can't cycle down it.
At the moment am sticking with the prosecution route. But would like to know more about the left turn just before there.
It is not a path it is a track used by farm vehicles, not a problem if on foot but hopeless on a cycle at night.
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As far as the 3 Pages Walk properties go. Bamber's options are -
Cycle through Pages Lane past them. Take 5 - 10 seconds.
Cycle behind the small property.
Take the earlier left turn pathway which goes past these properties.
As said, Bamber's choice.
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It is not a path it is a track used by farm vehicles, not a problem if on foot but hopeless on a cycle at night.
I don't agree with that.
A tractor is a vehicle with wheels. No reason why a bike could go on the same terrain.
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Do you think the Prosecution were wrong to say he cycled The Sea Wall?
No, because it's a possibility.
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No, because it's a possibility.
Adam knows Bamber if gulity drove.
The prosecution used it as a clever narrativem
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No, because it's a possibility.
Do you agree he could have brought the bike over so Julie could cycle to the bus station?
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As far as the 3 Pages Walk properties go. Bamber's options are -
Cycle through Pages Lane past them. Take 5 - 10 seconds.
Cycle behind the small property.
Take the earlier left turn pathway which goes past these properties.
As said, Bamber's choice.
I think it's pretty sad that someone has now spent close to 40 years in jail and we are struggling to find a plausible route that can be cycled in the dark.
My job means I sometimes spend a lot of time working at night so I know how tricky simple tasks can be yet you have him screaming along rutted tracks in total darkness.
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Adam knows Bamber if gulity drove.
The prosecution used it as a clever narrativem
Rob made a good point. The gaps between fields are partly for tractors.
I did say the cycle path looks as wide as a car.
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The Sea Wall route passed no properties.
You think he chugged along in his car past 90 people & security cameras. Each to there own.
In 1985? Security cameras? He wasn't driving a vintage car that backfired every two seconds. No one would have thought twice about a car on the road - who (other than the police) reported seeing him journey to WHF after his call to the police? The neighbours didn't hear him leave and who picked him up on a camera?
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I think it's pretty sad that someone has now spent close to 40 years in jail and we are struggling to find a plausible route that can be cycled in the dark.
My job means I sometimes spend a lot of time working at night so I know how tricky simple tasks can be yet you have him screaming along rutted tracks in total darkness.
Screaming?
He cycled for 20 minutes. Between where he lived and where he worked/was brought up.
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We both agree the paths were wide. As tractors go down them.
I don't agree that a tractor going down a path would mean you can't cycle down it.
At the moment am sticking with the prosecution route. But would like to know more about the left turn just before there.
Lots of problems with the path at the moment.
Bamber and RB both dismissed despite being local
Adam saying it was cycle friendly. Others disagreeing.
Adam says that Bamber going through three farm houses is ," not risky "
Despite dogs, spotlights, security cameras, people.
Adam says Bamber " ditched the bike somewhere down the lane in pitch black " and after went to retrieve it in pitch black darkness.
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I don't agree with that.
A tractor is a vehicle with wheels. No reason why a bike could go on the same terrain.
Because the tracks from the tractor cause an uneven surface.
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In 1985? Security cameras? He wasn't driving a vintage car that backfired every two seconds. No one would have thought twice about a car on the road - who (other than the police) reported seeing him journey to WHF after his call to the police? The neighbours didn't hear him leave and who picked him up on a camera?
Not a case of after the event.
Beforehand it is too risky. Just takes one person out of 90. Or 2,3....
Or one security camera.
No need to take the risk as he had a perfectly adequate cycle route.
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Because the tracks from the tractor cause an uneven surface.
Uneven surface.
That's it abort the cycle ride. The surface is uneven.
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Lots of problems with the path at the moment.
Bamber and RB both dismissed despite being local
Adam saying it was cycle friendly. Others disagreeing.
Adam says that Bamber going through three farm houses is ," not risky "
Despite dogs, spotlights, security cameras, people.
Adam says Bamber " ditched the bike somewhere down the lane in pitch black " and after went to retrieve it in pitch black darkness.
Please don't say pitch black.
That is when you are in a lift with no light.
It was outside darkness.
You know this.
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Uneven surface.
That's it abort the cycle ride. The surface is uneven.
Yep we now agree Adam! the cycle is a total red herring it never happened.
I think JB would go on foot, but keep a open mind on driving as ILB believes.
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The obstacles today -
Trees.
Uneven tracks.
Potential barking dogs.
Floodlights.
Bamber forgetting where he left the bike.
Farm workers at 2am.
The Pages Lane 2am Tuesday night bike thief.
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Not a case of after the event.
Beforehand it is too risky. Just takes one person out of 90. Or 2,3....
Or one security camera.
No need to take the risk as he had a perfectly adequate cycle route.
Agree he went via the sea wall sounds better than he jumped in the motor. Clever narrative.
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Yep we now agree Adam! the cycle is a total red herring it never happened.
I think JB would go on foot, but keep a open mind on driving as ILB believes.
I cycle on uneven surfaces every day. Potholes as well. While simultaneously cycling through traffic.
The Sea Wall route would be very easy for me. Providing I knew the way.
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Agree he went via the sea wall sounds better than he jumped in the motor. Clever narrative.
Lucky they had the option. Unlucky for Bamber.
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Please don't say pitch black.
That is when you are in a lift with no light.
It was outside darkness.
You know this.
What is that? sometimes in a area of heavy light pollution and clouds you can see a bit but not that much?
Bamber coming out of his cottage and again out of WHF would be a problem as it takes a while for the eyes to become adapted to the night anyway.
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Not a case of after the event.
Beforehand it is too risky. Just takes one person out of 90. Or 2,3....
Or one security camera.
No need to take the risk as he had a perfectly adequate cycle route.
Security camera's back then wouldn't have even been a thought. People were lucky to even have an alarm system. WHF didn't even have one.
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What is that? sometimes in a area of heavy light pollution and clouds you can see a bit but not that much?
Bamber coming out of his cottage and again out of WHF would be a problem as it takes a while for the eyes to become adapted to the night anyway.
Another problem for Bamber -
It would take him a few seconds to adapt to outside darkness.
And there was me thinking it was just a 20 minute cycle ride to where he worked.
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I cycle on uneven surfaces every day. Potholes as well. While simultaneously cycling through traffic.
The Sea Wall route would be very easy for me. Providing I knew the way.
Have you cycled on a rutted farm track?
Do you avoid the potholes in daylight or at night? do you have lights or are you just using the Moon?
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Another problem for Bamber -
It would take him a few seconds to adapt to outside darkness.
And there was me thinking it was just a 20 minute cycle ride to where he worked.
Another lie Adam? It could take up to 20 minutes for the eyes to become fully light adapted and by that time Bamber would be flat on his face in a pile of dung.
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Have you cycled on a rutted farm track?
Do you avoid the potholes in daylight or at night? do you have lights or are you just using the Moon?
Rutted farm track?
Bikes are designed to go over potholes. Up kerbs, even over uneven surfaces.
But a rutted farm track sounds like a job for Indiana Jones.
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Another lie Adam? It could take up to 20 minutes for the eyes to become fully light adapted and by that time Bamber would be flat on his face in a pile of dung.
20 minutes.
Wow. Do they not go outside after 3pm in the country?
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Rutted farm track?
Bikes are designed to go over potholes. Up kerbs, even over uneven surfaces.
But a rutted farm track sounds like a job for Indiana Jones.
I have struggled in a 4x4 on some farm tracks, please tell me which bikes are designed to go over potholes I would like to buy one?
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Seems Bamber had night vision goggles.
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Rutted farm track?
Bikes are designed to go over potholes. Up kerbs, even over uneven surfaces.
But a rutted farm track sounds like a job for Indiana Jones.
Not the bike he would have been using.
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I have struggled in a 4x4 on some farm tracks, please tell me which bikes are designed to go over potholes I would like to buy one?
A bike with wheels?
Bamber wasn't driving a 4x4 on farm tracks. He was cycling a bike for 20 minutes.
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Please don't say pitch black.
That is when you are in a lift with no light.
It was outside darkness.
You know this.
If he left it adjacent to WHF then fair enough will probably retrieve it.
However dumping it down the lane and them going back looking for it in darkness is fanciful in its extreme
You know this
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20 minutes.
Wow. Do they not go outside after 3pm in the country?
Please post a source for the eyes becoming fully light adapted after a few seconds?
Actually don't bother because you are just making it up I won't say lying as you don't know anyway.
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Not the bike he would have been using.
Sounds like Bamber needed a whip and hat to cycle the farm tracks.
Wouldn't be surprised if Pat Roach was hiding in the fields.
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If he left it adjacent to WHF then fair enough will probably retrieve it.
However dumping it down the lane and them going back looking for it in darkness is fanciful in its extreme
You know this
I'm sure he put June's bike somewhere he could find it later.
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Sounds like Bamber needed a whip and hat to cycle the farm tracks.
Wouldn't be surprised if Pat Roach was hiding in the fields.
The bike certainly would have been having been dumped.
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The bike certainly would have been having been dumped.
The CTSB doc has him cycling right up to WHF.
He would know what best suited him.
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Have to say none of the new batch of apparent cycling problems would have put me off cycling -
Trees for 50 yards.
A bike thief on Pages Lane at 2am.
Bamber forgetting where he left his bike.
Farm workers working at 2am.
Uneven farm track terrain.
Rutted farm track terrain. (Need explanation).
Barking dogs from 3 properties a long way from Pages Lane.
Spotlight from 3 properties a long way from Pages Lane.
Security cameras from 3 properties a long way from WHF.
Bamber's eyes needing to get used to outside darkness.
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I did suggest Pat Roach may appear from the fields mid journey. Now that would put me off!
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The main issue was the 3 properties on Pages Lane. Bamber had 3 options with these.
The progress made yesterday is that it has been agreed that farm tracks are generally at least the width of a vehicle. As Rob said, this is partly so tractors can go on them. I have never known of anyone say a road, lane, or track that wide is too narrow to cycle on.
Basically it was cycling on farm tracks for 20 minutes. Between where he lived and worked/used to live. On what Wilkinson described as 'good, level' terrain.
If outside darkness was an issue, the prosecution & defence would not agree it was possible.
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The main issue was the 3 properties on Pages Lane. Bamber had 3 options with these.
The progress made yesterday is that it has been agreed that farm tracks are generally at least the width of a vehicle. As Rob said, this is partly so tractors can go on them. I have never known of anyone say a road, lane, or track that wide is too narrow to cycle on.
Basically it was cycling on farm tracks for 20 minutes. Between where he lived and worked/used to live. On what Wilkinson described as 'good, level' terrain.
If outside darkness was an issue, the prosecution & defence would not agree it was possible.
If I was Bambers defense I would have easily shown the jury how tricky cycling in the dark with no lights would be on rutted farm tracks.
It was so tricky the cops had to do it in daylight. The main problem though this is all total speculation not a scarp of evidence he actually did this.
For example no one has ever came forward saying their dogs started kicking off at three in the morning, and I have set quite a few dogs off from quite a distance on my walks / work.
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Adam is now suggesting Bomber from auf weheidersein pet was there.
New twist, never seen this before.
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Please don't say pitch black.
That is when you are in a lift with no light.
It was outside darkness.
You know this.
Adam, I get the impression that you don't/can't drive? I also get the impression that, whilst you may be an ace at whizzing around your urban area on a bicylce, you experience of rural, as those of us who live in such areas experience it, may be limited.
Farmers, less frequently now, left footpaths round the edges of their fields. Ramblers often couldn't walk two abreast because these paths were so narrow. Those tracks wide enough to facilitate farm machinery, are heavily rutted by their treads. The area between the ruts is also subject to ruts, Quad bikes and 'putputs' which are used for convenience, being the cause. Ankles can very easily become turned, bicycle tires, hitting such, could cause the rider to go over the handlebar -and that's in daylight!
Leaving aside the sea wall, with its styles, steps, and rabbit burrows, farm tracks weren't meant for bicycles -I imagine cycling would be actively discouraged. Footpaths aren't cycle lanes. They were never meant to be such.................however! You might like to explore bridal ways? If a horse can, I guess a cyclist could. So much easier in a car, though.
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One thing that may influence peoples opinion of Bamber's transport is there experience of bikes.
I have had a bike for 18 months. So would charge through The Sea Wall route. Espescially if hyped up. Including on June's bike.
Non cyclists may find the words 'farm tracks' intimidating.
Bamber was not a cyclist. However he was young and fit. He had also lived and worked between the two properties for over 10 years. Suspect his cycling would be similar to mine.
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Just doesn't look feasible or realistic to me.
For a starters Bamber and RB claimed the route went over fields. They are men knew the area much better than any of us
But let's just use the track route for a moment.
The track path goes through ,3 farms, not alongside as Adam says. There is a huge risk of a security camera, dogs barking, spot lights, anybody being alerted. Not only that he would make the return journey via the same route and through the three farms.
The route is pitch black darkness. Bambers bike had no lighting. He wouldn't be able to navigate the route. He wouldn't be able to see shit
De'ath says the sea wall was populated.
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One thing that may influence peoples opinion of Bamber's transport is there experience of bikes.
I have had a bike for 18 months. So would charge through The Sea Wall route. Espescially if hyped up. Including on June's bike.
Non cyclists may find the words 'farm tracks' intimidating.
Bamber was not a cyclist. However he was young and fit. He had also lived and worked between the two properties for over 10 years. Suspect his cycling would be similar to mine.
Adam, there's a saying which goes thus:- We need to walk one mile in another person's shoes before we can understand what it feels like to be that person................In this case, it maybe that you need to get on your bike and cycle the route it's claimed, by some, that JB took, before you know if it's possible for him to have done so?
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One thing that may influence peoples opinion of Bamber's transport is there experience of bikes.
I have had a bike for 18 months. So would charge through The Sea Wall route. Espescially if hyped up. Including on June's bike.
Non cyclists may find the words 'farm tracks' intimidating.
Bamber was not a cyclist. However he was young and fit. He had also lived and worked between the two properties for over 10 years. Suspect his cycling would be similar to mine.
I think he used to cycle very often as a youth in fairness. It's in CALS book.
I used to cycle as a young kid, as most boys did. I had a chopper. I last used one a year or so ago on a family day out. ( Mountain bike ) It never leaves you.
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I don't think he would be of the cautious mindset. If gulity the idiot put the silencer back in the cupboard! For all an sundry to discover.
Shot a staged suicide victim twice !
Did behaviour after the crime which invoked suspicion on him
Told his girlfriend what he did.
Not the most retiring or cautious personality types. If he can do all that I think it's safe to say he didn't worry by a short car journey.
He's not a criminal mastermind by any stretch of the imagination if you believe him guilty. They were on his case from the start. He was on remand within two months and convicted and jailed for life within 14 months.
Did not make any attempts to cover his tracks.
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Sounds like Bamber needed a whip and hat to cycle the farm tracks.
Wouldn't be surprised if Pat Roach was hiding in the fields.
I don't know who Pat Roach is but if he had been, he's have spotted Bamber having to push his bike over rough terrain - and you thought he'd be spotted if he drove! Damn that Pat Roach!
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I don't know who Pat Roach is but if he had been, he's have spotted Bamber having to push his bike over rough terrain - and you thought he'd be spotted if he drove! Damn that Pat Roach!
Played bomber in auf weirdersehen pet, was in Indians Jones films series as well, died some years ago.
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I don't know who Pat Roach is but if he had been, he's have spotted Bamber having to push his bike over rough terrain - and you thought he'd be spotted if he drove! Damn that Pat Roach!
How can you not know who Pat Roach? 🤭
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How can you not know who Pat Roach? 🤭
I do now LOL - it's the welsh bloke from Auf Wiedersehen Pet.
(Now I'm wondering why he (in particular) would be hiding in the field?) ???
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Played bomber in auf weirdersehen pet, was in Indians Jones films series as well, died some years ago.
Yes, I Googled it. Didn't know he was in Indiana Jones though - now I get it
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How can you not know who Pat Roach? 🤭
I've never heard of him!!!
Looked him up. I remember him having an argument with a plane in an Indiana Jones film.
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I've never heard of him!!!
Did you prefer prisoner on cell block H jane :))
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Did you prefer prisoner on cell block H jane :))
Oh dear! How sad!! I never watched that or Auf Wiedersehen, Pet!!!
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Oh dear! How sad!! I never watched that or Auf Wiedersehen, Pet!!!
The good life ? Some mothers do have them ?? :))
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The good life ? Some mothers do have them ?? :))
The Good Life, tick! Some Mothers? No, no, NO! It seemed as if everyone was having fun at the expense of the mentally challenged. It wasn't until Michael Crawford joined the cast of Phantom that I stopped seeing Frank Spencer.
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Would like to know more about the terrain on the left turn pathway around 300 metres before the prosecutions turn off.
This doesn't look as good as the prosecution turn off & is not in a straight line. However it does go to Pages Lane & avoids the 3 Pages Lane properties.
Bamber would have known in 85.
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The Good Life, tick! Some Mothers? No, no, NO! It seemed as if everyone was having fun at the expense of the mentally challenged. It wasn't until Michael Crawford joined the cast of Phantom that I stopped seeing Frank Spencer.
Yes, I liked felicity Kendall ^-^
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Yes, I liked felicity Kendall ^-^
Funny, that! So did my late partner................I wonder what it was about her :))
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Would like to know more about the terrain on the left turn pathway around 300 metres before the prosecutions turn off.
This doesn't look as good as the prosecution turn off & is not in a straight line. However it does go to Pages Lane & avoids the 3 Pages Lane properties.
Bamber would have known in 85.
I think the best thing to do is visit. Which I am going to do
.
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I think the best thing to do is visit. Which I am going to do
.
Please let me know about it with photos. I may visit afterwards. Summer is coming.
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Please let me know about it with photos. I may visit afterwards. Summer is coming.
Will do.
Is pages lane s private road?
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It is indeed.
Be surprised if you could get access direct from the sea wall
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Will do.
Is pages lane s private road?
It's about 1.5km from WHF to the bottom of Pages Lane ILB, then it turns into a footpath, not a direct path to the sea wall, it takes a few turns and narrow's, so road wise it's a dead end. I went to the top, but i didn't go down. My Kommot [mapping] will not let me plot a cycle Route along the sea wall and this is the best cycling app used by millions. Local Cyclists input cycle routes in the local arae, the Sea Wall is not one plotted by cyclists. I can override it, but then it tells me there might be area's i have to dismount my bike.
This is the messaging i get from KOMOOT Includes a segment in which cycling is not permitted
You'll need to dismount and push your bike.
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I do now LOL - it's the welsh bloke from Auf Wiedersehen Pet.
(Now I'm wondering why he (in particular) would be hiding in the field?) ???
Welsh? He was like Bristol type in auf. He had a fist fight with Harrison Ford in Raiders.
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It's about 1.5km from WHF to the bottom of Pages Lane ILB, then it turns into a footpath, not a direct path to the sea wall, it takes a few turns and narrow's, so road wise it's a dead end. I went to the top, but i didn't go down. My Kommot [mapping] will not let me plot a cycle Route along the sea wall and this is the best cycling app used by millions. Local Cyclists input cycle routes in the local arae, the Sea Wall is not one plotted by cyclists. I can override it, but then it tells me there might be area's i have to dismount my bike.
This is the messaging i get from KOMOOT Includes a segment in which cycling is not permitted
You'll need to dismount and push your bike.
Thanks for that first sentance. Pages Lane merging into a footpath leading to The Sea Wall.
Can see why the prosecution had him cycling that route.
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Thanks for that first sentance. Pages Lane merging into a footpath leading to The Sea Wall.
Can see why the prosecution had him cycling that route.
A foot path in the pitch black on a bike.
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A foot path in the pitch black on a bike.
Pitch black is being in a lift during a power cut.
Both the prosecution and defence agreed it could be cycled in outside darkness. It was an open area.
Agree if going there was the first time, daylight would be essential. However Bamber had over a decades experience of the area.
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Thanks for that first sentance. Pages Lane merging into a footpath leading to The Sea Wall.
Can see why the prosecution had him cycling that route.
This is the messaging i get from KOMOOT Includes a segment in which cycling is not permitted
You'll need to dismount and push your bike.
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Pitch black is being in a lift during a power cut.
Both the prosecution and defence agreed it could be cycled in outside darkness. It was an open area.
Agree if going there was the first time, daylight would be essential. However Bamber had over a decades experience of the area.
Experience doesn't mean anything in terms of being able to see.
Darkness is darkness
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Welsh? He was like Bristol type in auf. He had a fist fight with Harrison Ford in Raiders.
Bristol isn't a kick in the arse off Wales but you're right it was a Bristol accent.
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Pitch black is being in a lift during a power cut.
Both the prosecution and defence agreed it could be cycled in outside darkness. It was an open area.
Agree if going there was the first time, daylight would be essential. However Bamber had over a decades experience of the area.
Have you got a source the defence did agree ?
Please don't say " they didn't contest it" what was to contest? The mantra was he was at home, was innocent and didn't make any journey.
Do you have a source of any member of Bambers legal team at trial saying " yes he definatley could have gone via the sea wall "
Or any source they he could before or in the aftermath?
Thank you
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Bristol isn't a kick in the arse off Wales but you're right it was a Bristol accent.
Good actor, he lived in Birmingham for many years and had a scrapyard there.
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Not surprised Hardy Boys Kommot app didn't work.
The Sea Wall doesn't look the sort of route a family of cyclists would go to for a Sunday afternoon cycle ride.
However fine for the one off night Bamber had planned.
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Not surprised Hardy Boys Kommot app didn't work.
The Sea Wall doesn't look the sort of route a family of cyclists would go to for a Sunday afternoon cycle ride.
However fine for the one off night Bamber had planned.
Will look forward to your video
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Have you got a source the defence did agree ?
Please don't say " they didn't contest it" what was to contest? The mantra was he was at home, was innocent and didn't make any journey.
Do you have a source of any member of Bambers legal team at trial saying " yes he definatley could have gone via the sea wall "
Or any source they he could before or in the aftermath?
Thank you
The whole trial is a source. Together with the defence closing speech.
Obviously anyone can cycle in outside darkness where they have spent over 10 years. Turn all lights off where I live & I could cycle for miles.
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The whole trial is a source. Together with the defence closing speech.
Obviously anyone can cycle in outside darkness where they have spent over 10 years. Turn all lights off where I live & I could cycle for miles.
I'm suprised youv'e got time to get dressed the amount of time you spend on here.
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I'm suprised youv'e got time to get dressed the amount of time you spend on here.
Just about to do my every other day exercises. Have to get dressed for that as some of it is outside.
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The whole trial is a source. Together with the defence closing speech.
Obviously anyone can cycle in outside darkness where they have spent over 10 years. Turn all lights off where I live & I could cycle for miles.
No one believes you Adam, it's obvious you have never done it. There is a big difference between a man made road / cycleway and a rough public right of way.
I could not walk some of the public footpaths near me at night without torches.
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No one believes you Adam, it's obvious you have never done it. There is a big difference between a man made road / cycleway and a rough public right of way.
I could not walk some of the public footpaths near me at night without torches.
It would be like being blind.
It's a non starter
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No one believes you Adam, it's obvious you have never done it. There is a big difference between a man made road / cycleway and a rough public right of way.
I could not walk some of the public footpaths near me at night without torches.
I have never been to area. Never said I had.
Google Maps and Hardy Boy say Pages Lane merges into a wide footpath. It is the prosecution route.
Wilkinson, RB and Gunfure Graffiti say The Sea Wall terrain is good.
You said paths between fields are wide as tractors go down them.
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Just about to do my every other day exercises. Have to get dressed for that as some of it is outside.
It must be going outside your comfort zone then?
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It would be like being blind.
It's a non starter
Could you not cycle outside where you live with no street, car or property lights?
Wow. I could cycle for miles.
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Could you not cycle outside where you live with no street, car or property lights?
Wow. I could cycle for miles.
On a isolated countryside path at 2am without a bike light a total non starter
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It must be going outside your comfort zone then?
Very much so. Want to get to 20 free weight pull ups.
Got to 14 then got tennis elbow from playing squash. Now recovered am currently on 11.
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No one believes you Adam, it's obvious you have never done it. There is a big difference between a man made road / cycleway and a rough public right of way.
I could not walk some of the public footpaths near me at night without torches.
This was the point I was trying to make earlier. Cycle tracks are designated areas for people to ride bikes. The sea wall between Goldhanger and D'Arcy was not such. Ruts, rabbit holes, styles and steps make it unsuitable by day, let alone at night with no borrowed light.
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On a isolated countryside path at 2am without a bike light a total non starter
So you could cycle outside where you live in outside darkness.
Me and the prosecution disagree that it would be any different for Bamber.
But you are entitled to oppose the 39 year old prosecution stance.
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Very much so. Want to get to 20 free weight pull ups.
Got to 14 then got tennis elbow from playing squash. Now recovered am currently on 11.
Pull the other one
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Or rather chin ups. As the chin must go above the bar. Wrist straps are good so you don't lose grip.
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I don't live in the countryside.
Tomorrow night I'm going for a couple of drinks, the pub is a fifteen minute walk from my house. Il take you a little video of country path walkthrough and see if you find it applicable to cycle on and if you can see.
So you can cycle in outside darkness where you live, but not in the countryside.
From what I have seen of The Sea Wall , Pages Lane & the cycle path between the two, I would just power through. Espescially if I had lived there for over a decade!
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This was the point I was trying to make earlier. Cycle tracks are designated areas for people to ride bikes. The sea wall between Goldhanger and D'Arcy was not such. Ruts, rabbit holes, styles and steps make it unsuitable by day, let alone at night with no borrowed light.
I think he had to walk Jane, could take a much more direct route. ILB thinks he drove I am beginning to come round to this as well? Did he have access to other vehicles?
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So you can cycle in outside darkness where you live, but not in the countryside.
From what I have seen of The Sea Wall , Pages Lane & the cycle path between the two, I would just power through. Espescially if I had lived there for over a decade!
Must say Adam, youv'e got an chincredible sense of humor.
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So you can cycle in outside darkness where you live, but not in the countryside.
From what I have seen of The Sea Wall , Pages Lane & the cycle path between the two, I would just power through. Espescially if I had lived there for over a decade!
I never said I could cycle on the streets in darkness.
In any event the sea wall and path isn't a normal surburban street.
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This sea wall route just seems too much pissing around.
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I don't live in the countryside.
Tomorrow night I'm going for a couple of drinks, the pub is a fifteen minute walk from my house. Il take you a little video of country path walkthrough and see if you find it applicable to cycle on and if you can see.
If you live in a area of heavy light pollution ILB you may get some help depending on cloud cover?
Will be a interesting test.
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If you live in a area of heavy light pollution ILB you may get some help depending on cloud cover?
Will be a interesting test.
Adam will make it out he can see.
He would argue Millwall didn't lose 2 - 1 today.
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I never said I could cycle on the streets in darkness.
In any event the sea wall and path isn't a normal surburban street.
Can you or can't you?
I could cycle all night at night around where I live. Just using the natural light.
Not sure why it would be different anywhere else in the UK.
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Adam will make it out he can see.
He would argue Millwall didn't lose 2 - 1 today.
I was talking to three Millwall fans today in Sheff
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Can you or can't you?
I could cycle all night at night around where I live. Just using the natural light.
Not sure why it would be different anywhere else in the UK.
You have never done it though have you!
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Can you or can't you?
I could cycle all night at night around where I live. Just using the natural light.
Not sure why it would be different anywhere else in the UK.
Well I believe he would have diffiilculty seeing.
In answer to your question I could jump on a cycle and give it an attempt how effective it would I'm not sure
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I was talking to three Millwall fans today in Sheff
Can remember going to cold blow lane in the 80s hardy, scary scary place lol
The old ground.
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Cycling in an area I don't know just relying on outside ambient light is another matter.
However Bamber had lived in the area for over 10 years!
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This sea wall route just seems too much pissing around.
He gets on a bike. Cycles. Then gets off.
I did that myself today.
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Can remember going to cold blow lane in the 80s hardy, scary scary place lol
The old ground.
Yes it had a reputation alright the Old Den. I asked if they were still on the Isle Of Dogs, I didn’t know they had moved.
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He gets on a bike. Cycles. Then gets off.
I did that myself today.
Were you on the way to murder your mother father sister and nephews at 2am?
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Cycling in an area I don't know just relying on outside ambient light is another matter.
However Bamber had lived in the area for over 10 years!
I bet you have never walked or cycled along the nearest public right of way to your front door.
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It's weird seeing Adam have Jeremy as his avatar. When I speak to Adam I feel like I am speaking to Jeremy himself.
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I bet you have never walked or cycled along the nearest public right of way to your front door.
We can't all live the dream
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I have been on several country walks. My parents are keen walkers & would drive me & my sister to the country for a walk & a picnic.
Obviously the footpaths were suitable for walking. Which is why we were walking on them. In the main they were suitable to cycle.
A bike is not wide, so does not need wide footpaths.
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I have been on several country walks. My parents are keen walkers & would drive me & my sister to the country for a walk & a picnic.
Obviously the footpaths were suitable for walking. Which is why we were walking on them. In the main they were suitable to cycle.
A bike is not wide, so does not need wide footpaths.
No one is denying a bike isn't wide enough.
I'm not entirely convinced with our findings. Bamber and RB saying that the crossing involved going over fields.
Until I go how can I argue with that ? Both men knew the locality and area better than any of us.
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I have been on several country walks. My parents are keen walkers & would drive me & my sister to the country for a walk & a picnic.
Obviously the footpaths were suitable for walking. Which is why we were walking on them. In the main they were suitable to cycle.
A bike is not wide, so does not need wide footpaths.
I which you would get your terminology correct Adam, but you do it deliberately to give the impression Bamber had a nice smooth footpath to cycle down.
By footpath I assume you mean a public right of way? and as I posted earlier I have never seen anyone cycling on one of these. As Jane posted earlier you often walk single file along these.
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I which you would get your terminology correct Adam, but you do it deliberately to give the impression Bamber had a nice smooth footpath to cycle down.
By footpath I assume you mean a public right of way? and as I posted earlier I have never seen anyone cycling on one of these. As Jane posted earlier you often walk single file along these.
Well Wilkinson said -
Well defined.
Level.
Six feet wide (sea wall).
Occasional stiles.
Stiles easy to pass.
Path cycled 'with ease'.
Well maintained.
Clearly defined.
Easily negotiable.
Walked/cycled with ease.
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Unless ILB has returns with photos & a different experience, we all have to accept this.
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Well Wilkinson said -
Well defined.
Level.
Six feet wide (sea wall).
Occasional stiles.
Stiles easy to pass.
Path cycled 'with ease'.
Well maintained.
Clearly defined.
Easily negotiable.
Walked/cycled with ease.
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Unless ILB has returns with photos & a different experience, we all have to accept this.
Did he have to cross "stiles" these can be tricky even in daylight, in darkness and carrying a bike not so easy.
ILB's photos will help but remember it was 1985 not today.
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Did he have to cross "stiles" these can be tricky even in daylight, in darkness and carrying a bike not so easy.
ILB's photos will help but remember it was 1985 not today.
He has a hidden agenda against Jeremy Bamber.
It's obvious we all know it.
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He has a hidden agenda against Jeremy Bamber.
It's obvious we all know it.
Rather too conspicuous to be hidden, don't you think?
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Rather too conspicuous to be hidden, don't you think?
Not really.
The subject is serving a whole life tariff in prison and has no access to the internet. Apart from his campaign team.
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Not really.
The subject is serving a whole life tariff in prison and has no access to the internet. Apart from his campaign team.
Were you not talking about Adam's agenda being hidden?
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He has a hidden agenda against Jeremy Bamber.
It's obvious we all know it.
Nah, he just has an interest in the case, nothing Adam or any of us say here, affects Jeremy's position one iota.
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Wilkinson -
About 1 mile along from the B1023 from TD there is a well constructed private tarmacked road/farm track which eventually leads to The Sea Wall via WHF & Wyke Farm.
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This was already confirmed by me 2 days ago using Google Maps.
ILB agreeing yesterday after 24 hours of saying there was no path.
Seems Wilkinson is saying the whole path is tarmacked. .
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Were you not talking about Adam's agenda being hidden?
Yes I was.
He states he has an interest in the case. Buying a book online, and coming to the case " with an open mind "
I don't believe that. It's hidden in my eyes because although it's obvious what he truly is he himself won't admit it.
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Yes I was.
He states he has an interest in the case. Buying a book online, and coming to the case " with an open mind "
I don't believe that. It's hidden in my eyes because although it's obvious what he truly is he himself won't admit it.
Many people here claim to have an open mind, but rarely argue both sides. It's obvious Adam believes Bamber guilty and he has said so.
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Many people here claim to have an open mind, but rarely argue both sides. It's obvious Adam believes Bamber guilty and he has said so.
You have your opinion, I'll have mine.
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You have your opinion, I'll have mine.
Indeed, as does Adam and it seems pretty clear to me which side of the fence he's standing.
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Wilkinson -
The track from WHF leads to the Northern Sea Wall.
The Sea Wall is a well defined and level footpath about 6 feet wide. The path can be walked and cycled with ease.
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This is confirming what I said 2 days ago using Google Maps. Regarding the path from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane. A pity ILB spent a day denying it was there. Which was disappointing. Google Maps Satellite does not lie.
Wilkinson confirms The Sea Wall was easy to cycle.
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The Sea Wall - Cycled with ease'.
This not beating around the bush.
He's not saying it was tough but possible or he had to carry the bike some of the way.
He says 'cycled with ease'.
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Indeed, as does Adam and it seems pretty clear to me which side of the fence he's standing.
Pretty clear you are either oblivious to what I'm insinuating or you are not and trying to be awkward for the sake of it.
In any event
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The Sea Wall - Cycled with ease'.
This not beating around the bush.
He's not saying it was tough but possible or he had to carry the bike some of the way.
He says 'cycled with ease'.
He's hardly going to say " no way Bamber did this guv' when on orders from Ainsley!
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The scariest thing is he probably never even did the journey himself Wilkinson.
Carte blanche
You can tell it's fake in many ways Wilkinson was CID. A task like that would be carried out by uniform a young pc.
A DI wouldn't do it, he might oversee it.
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Pretty clear you are either oblivious to what I'm insinuating or you are not and trying to be awkward for the sake of it.
In any event
So why don't yo just say what you mean. I have no idea what agenda he's supposed to have. He's just a poster on a forum with an opinion, like you.
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Don't know why ILB spent a day denying there was a cycle path from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
It is on Google Maps Satellite & the prosecution route. Rob agreed it was there straight away.
Both sides need to take a mature approach to the case and accept evidence. Rather than deny it exists.
Now ILB is suggesting Wilkinson did not visit the area and made up his WS. Hopefully he retracts this today.
Hopefully he also confirms today whether he can cycle in outside darkness where he lives. I have said I could cycle for miles where I live.
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Don't know why ILB spent a day denying there was a cycle path from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane.
It is on Google Maps Satellite & the prosecution route. Rob agreed it was there straight away.
Both sides need to take a mature approach to the case and accept evidence. Rather than deny it exists.
Now ILB is suggesting Wilkinson did not visit the area and made up his WS. Hopefully he retracts this today.
Hopefully he also confirms today whether he can cycle in outside darkness where he lives. I have said I could cycle for miles where I live.
I just doubt that a DI would carry out the task, he probably got a junior officer to do it and relay the findings.
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Seems Wilkinson is saying the route from The Sea Wall to WHF had very good terrain - 'there is a well constructed private tarmacked road/farm track which eventually leads to The Sea Wall via WHF & Wyke Farm'.
My estimation was the farm track was as wide as a car. As Rob said, tractors need to go down farm tracks. So wide with very good terrain.
Pages Lane is designed for cars so perfect terrain for a bike.
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So the prosecution cycle route -
The Sea Wall - 'Cycled with ease'.
Farm track - As wide as a car. Tarmacked.
Pages Lane - A lane for cars. Perfect terrain for a bike.
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Seems Wilkinson is saying the route from The Sea Wall to WHF had very good terrain - 'there is a well constructed private tarmacked road/farm track which eventually leads to The Sea Wall via WHF & Wyke Farm'.
My estimation was the farm track was as wide as a car. As Rob said, tractors need to go down farm tracks. So wide with very good terrain.
Pages Lane is designed for cars so perfect terrain for a bike.
I just don't believe a DI would undertake it himself. It was probably done by an underlying.
You know how the chain of command works.
A DI is a senior officer, he was a rank below Taff.
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Anyway il do you s video of the small farm track this evening il be walking down. It's unlit too
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He would have to drive through/past or around Wyke Farm. So I am interested in the left turn around 300 yards before the prosecutions.
This pathway takes a less direct route to Pages Lane. However completly avoids Wyke Farm. If the terrain was good enough to cycle, then it is a good option.
ILB will enlighten us soon.
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He would have to drive through/past or around Wyke Farm. So I am interested in the left turn around 300 yards before the prosecutions.
This pathway takes a less direct route to Pages Lane. However completly avoids Wyke Farm. If the terrain was good enough to cycle, then it is a good option.
ILB will enlighten us soon.
Of course.
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Wilkinson rules out taking a more direct route by walking -
'There are footpaths which seem to link WHF to Goldhanger in a more direct manner. Via Joyce Farm & Lauriston Farm.
I have attempted to negotiate these paths but without success. The paths go directly across fields or cultivated crops. Or peter out on the banks of small streams and irrigation'.
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The only walking option routes were the same as the cycling options. Walking those routes twice in one night would be very tiring and time consuming. It would also mean spending more time outside so more chance of being seen.
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Seems the only direct walking route option would be walking across at least 10 fields & across pathways. If possible.
Or he could use a combination of footpaths & walking across fields. Which would entail zig zagging. This seems very tiring and time consuming.
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In hindsight, the potential tiring 3 hour round trip mission of walking across fields, pathways, over hedges/streams, irrigation and zig zagging would have benefitted him the most.
Julie and the relatives would not have seen June's bike at Goldhanger before and afterwards.
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No idea until I go in may and make my own conclusions
Seems from your conclusion both Bamber and RB are liars and in regards to knowing the routes and locality.
We aren't local guys.
We just have maps and satalites.
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No idea until I go in may and make my own conclusions
Seems from your conclusion both Bamber and RB are liars and in regards to knowing the routes and locality.
We aren't local guys.
We just have maps and satalites.
Have more than that.
If you can check some of the fields. See if they could be walked over & if there are any obstacles blocking a direct route.
Sorry to keep asking for information.
What did RB say? Preferably with source.
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In hindsight, the potential tiring 3 hour round trip mission of walking across fields, pathways, over hedges/streams, irrigation and zig zagging would have benefitted him the most.
Julie and the relatives would not have seen June's bike at Goldhanger before and afterwards.
Thinking again, having no bike at Goldhanger before & after the massacre may not be a great advantage.
The prosecution would just say he walked!
So might as well cycle as quicker and easier.
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Have more than that.
If you can check some of the fields. See if they could be walked over & if there are any obstacles blocking a direct route.
Sorry to keep asking for information.
What did RB say? Preferably with source.
You don't have to say sorry.
We both have an interest in the case.
In regards to RB the source is in one of witnesses statements, books or diary notes. In regards to Bamber it is from his own mouth.
Both men knew the area much better than I, from Bambers perspective it's fruitless to lie about the route, it can easily be checked out.
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You don't have to say sorry.
We both have an interest in the case.
In regards to RB the source is in one of witnesses statements, books or diary notes. In regards to Bamber it is from his own mouth.
Both men knew the area much better than I, from Bambers perspective it's fruitless to lie about the route, it can easily be checked out.
I am not sure about Bamber's position.
Is he saying he didn't know about The Sea Wall?
Or that he knew about it but says it could not be cycled?
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I am not sure about Bamber's position.
Is he saying he didn't know about The Sea Wall?
Or that he knew about it but says it could not be cycled?
The source of Bamber dismissing the sea wall route is on his tik tok page. I can't recall it word for word but I can remember him calling the idea " laughable and complete madness "
We both know he would know what was been insinuated by the prosecution. He was on trial!
The same as you, I believe he would know the route, as we both agree it was on his parents doorstep, he worked the land and had lived at WHF from being adopted when he was a baby.
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If the prosecution route couldn't be 'cycled with ease', they would just say he walked or cycled via Maldon Road.
He could avoid the properties on Church Street when getting onto Maldon Road by going through the church and along 2 fields.
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If the prosecution route couldn't be 'cycled with ease', they would just say he walked or cycled via Maldon Road.
He could avoid the properties on Church Street when getting onto Maldon Road by going through the church and along 2 fields.
As said there are three methods of transport walk bike car
As said he the defence had bigger fish to fry, even if the sea wall theory was bunked how did that counter Julie mugford and the silencer with Shelias blood.
Moving back to transport, as said you say he could walk and he also had a car.
I'm surprised the prosecution just didn't say " he made a journey " all three are feasible on paper, walking bike and car
Why was Nevills Citroen at Bourtree?
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As said there are three methods of transport walk bike car
As said he the defence had bigger fish to fry, even if the sea wall theory was bunked how did that counter Julie mugford and the silencer with Shelias blood.
Moving back to transport, as said you say he could walk and he also had a car.
I'm surprised the prosecution just didn't say " he made a journey " all three are feasible on paper, walking bike and car
Why was Nevills Citroen at Bourtree?
I thought it was said that blood was found on the passenger seat of the Citroen? It was never said whose or what.
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As said there are three methods of transport walk bike car
As said he the defence had bigger fish to fry, even if the sea wall theory was bunked how did that counter Julie mugford and the silencer with Shelias blood.
Moving back to transport, as said you say he could walk and he also had a car.
I'm surprised the prosecution just didn't say " he made a journey " all three are feasible on paper, walking bike and car
Why was Nevills Citroen at Bourtree?
The prosecution would have wanted to submit a specific route to the jury.
The route they chose passed least properties & used up less energy and time than walking.
Saying he cycled on the main roads, one juror may say he wouldn't risk that. Which creates reasonable doubt.
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The prosecution would have wanted to submit a specific route to the jury.
The route they chose passed least properties & used up less energy and time than walking.
Saying he cycled on the main roads, one juror may say he wouldn't risk that. Which creates reasonable doubt.
Seems they alleged he walked to WHF, and returned by bike. I thought Julie had seen the bike at the weekend before at Jeremys cottage?
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I thought the mantra was he cycled both too and from? I thought the bike was at bourtree. This is from the COA 2002 appeal judgement.
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Why would he take the bike then return it s day before the crime ?
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Seems they alleged he walked to WHF, and returned by bike. I thought Julie had seen the bike at the weekend before at Jeremys cottage?
He cycled there and back. No point just doing one journey by bike.
Julie testified she saw the bike 2 days before.
The judge speaking about this in his summing up.
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He cycled there and back. No point just doing one journey by bike.
Julie testified she saw the bike 2 days before.
The judge speaking about this in his summing up.
This is the COA, why would they get it wrong.
This is also what the CT say happened.
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He cycled there and back. No point just doing one journey by bike.
Julie testified she saw the bike 2 days before.
The judge speaking about this in his summing up.
Have you got a transcript of justice drakes summing up ? A full one ? I have many documents but not that.
I have seen excerpts
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It does seem a straight forward 20 minute cycle ride.
On wide, flat pathways on good terrain, tarmacked paths and Pages Lane.
He had lived at both properties and had worked on the land in between. For long periods.
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Have you got a transcript of justice drakes summing up ? A full one ? I have many documents but not that.
I have seen excerpts
The judge said why would he bring a bike for Julie if the relationship had been coming to a close for 6 months. It is in Wilkes's book.
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The judge said why would he bring a bike for Julie if the relationship had been coming to a close for 6 months. It is in Wilkes's book.
Seems the COA and the CT are muddled up then.
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Never saw any refute from Bamber or to be honest anything remotely about the route from the defence perspective until I heard him speaking about the route himself on tik tok.
Can't recall It being in the cross examination transcript off the top of my head
This is why I believe the defence stance from the outset was " nobody saw me make the journey guv' it's also referenced as a key defence point in the judgement of the COA 2002 so it would obviously been the stance at trial.
Don't believe the defence tried to debunk the sea wall.
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A transcript of the direct examination between Rivlin and Bamber hasn't survived the length of time. There is no copy of it. They might have discussed it.
Doubtful however as I believe if they had Arlidge would have challenged him about it on cross examination.
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Are you two still arguing about that damn bike? ;D
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This guy is cycling from Tollsbury to Goldhanger on an old Mountain Bike he's not riden for about 5 years, should give a good idea of the terrain? Fast forward to about 3 mins 30 seconds when he starts at the sea wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgIRcZSLXjg
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Thanks. So it could be cycled with ease. The pathways attached look even easier.
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Thanks. So it could be cycled with ease. The pathways attached look even easier.
In the daytime.
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In the daytime.
Of course Bamber would not be able to find his way in outside darkness.
He would end up in Heybridge.
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Of course Bamber would not be able to find his way in outside darkness.
He would end up in Heybridge.
A video posted recently in the daylight- an event which took place in 1985. (At 2am)
Cannot draw a comparison in my opinion and I won't until till I visit.
Also Bambers route is supposed to have gone over fields and tracks.
The only way we can say for sure is to replicate the 2am journey and go the route to WHF.
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A video posted recently - an event which took place in 1985.
Cannot draw a comparison in my opinion and I won't until till I visit.
Also Bambers route is supposed to have gone over fields and tracks.
The only way we can say for sure is to replicate the 2am journey and go the route to WHF.
The prosecution route goes up the Sea Wall, up the wide tarmacked track and up Pages Lane.
So agree tracks. But no fields.
Most of the video is tracks. They are for walking or cycling on.
You have not said whether you can cycle in outside darkness where you live.
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The prosecution route goes up the Sea Wall, up the wide tarmacked track and up Pages Lane.
So agree tracks. But no fields.
Most of the video is tracks. They are for walking or cycling on.
You have not said whether you can cycle in outside darkness where you live.
Trying to upload pictures of a farm track walk and short video I did last night. It keeps saying timed out.
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The prosecution route goes up the Sea Wall, up the wide tarmacked track and up Pages Lane.
So agree tracks. But no fields.
Most of the video is tracks. They are for walking or cycling on.
You have not said whether you can cycle in outside darkness where you live.
Again we are just relying on maps and satalite.
From my perspective until we go and get crystal clear clarity we both can't say for certain.
We both know this
This is fact whether a guilter on the fence or innocent stance.
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Again we are just relying on maps and satalite.
From my perspective until we go and get crystal clear clarity we both can't say for certain.
We both know this
This is fact whether a guilter on the fence or innocent stance.
Videos, photos, Google Maps Satellite, WS's, vlogs, testimonies.
But appreciate you still want to visit. The feedback the forum will be greateful for.
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Videos, photos, Google Maps Satellite, WS's, vlogs, testimonies.
But appreciate you still want to visit. The feedback the forum will be greateful for.
Vlogs? GG deleted his.
Photos ?
Agree with what we have g maps satalites. It's not gospel though
I have de'aths source and pitch black darkness
I don't believe Wilkinson did the journey. I think a junior Officer did it.
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Vlogs? GG deleted his.
Photos ?
Agree with what we have g maps satalites. It's not gospel though
I have de'aths source and pitch black darkness
I don't believe Wilkinson did the journey. I think a junior Officer did it.
Yes GG & Trudies are not online.
You did read GG's. I watched Trudie's.
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Yes GG & Trudies are not online.
You did read GG's. I watched Trudie's.
So what's your point then ?
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I disagreed with GG. Outlined the reasons. They are on this forum. In the event he has appeared to have pulled the blog down.
Trudie was Bambers campaign manager. What occured between those two is a matter for them.
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So what's your point then ?
There is a lot of evidence Bamber's route can be cycled. Even today Hardy Boy put up a video of someone cycling The Sea Wall.
But appreciate you want to visit.
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There is a lot of evidence Bamber's route can be cycled. Even today Hardy Boy put up a video of someone cycling The Sea Wall.
But appreciate you want to visit.
I imagine that sea wall you can cycle in the day time without massive difficulty. However difficult you can use your eyes easily in the daylight.
The fact is this defendant was accused of cycling it at 2am and taking tracks and fields to WHF.
Which is a bit different, RB and Bamber say it encountered fields.
Until I go with me not being a local man how can I ascertain either way ?
You yourself said you planned to visit at some point.
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Hardy Boy's video does show The Sea Wall is in am open area. Meaning good ambient light.
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Hardy Boy's video does show The Sea Wall is in am open area. Meaning good ambient light.
You confirm my point that we can use our eyes to see In the daylight.
Thanks Adam.
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You confirm my point that we can use our eyes to see In the daylight.
Thanks Adam.
You can also use your eyes in open area outside darkness.
Although Bamber would automatically know the route.
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You can also use your eyes in open area outside darkness.
Although Bamber would automatically know the route.
Cycling at 2am in complete darkness
Anyway let's stay respectful, time will tell
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Cycling at 2am in complete darkness
Anyway let's stay respectful, time will tell
Can only assume you believe you could cycle outside where you live in darkness. Ditto me where I live.
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Can only assume you believe you could cycle outside where you live in darkness. Ditto me where I live.
Not on a farm track. Which I undertook on Tuesday evening ( albeit walking )
On the road, it's difficult to say. Unless in a powercut situation. The roads have plenty of street lighting.
I live in a city, the bright lights in the distance didn't give much help in the slightest.
As for ambient light, a total non starter.
Also made a short video.
Having trouble uploading to the forum. Keeps saying timed out as said to you yesterday.
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Not on a farm track. Which I undertook on Tuesday evening ( albeit walking )
On the road, it's difficult to say. Unless in a powercut situation. The roads have plenty of street lighting.
I live in a city, the bright lights in the distance didn't give much help in the slightest.
As for ambient light, a total non starter.
Also made a short video.
Having trouble uploading to the forum. Keeps saying timed out as said to you yesterday.
I don't think there will be much ambient light going from Goldhanger to D'Arcy. Maldon will be too far behind you to borrow it's light. You'll just have to hope for a good moon.
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I don't think there will be much ambient light going from Goldhanger to D'Arcy. Maldon will be too far behind you to borrow it's light. You'll just have to hope for a good moon.
In fairness a country farm track in Sheffield will differ in comparison to goldhanger. One in 2024 one in 1985.
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Not on a farm track. Which I undertook on Tuesday evening ( albeit walking )
On the road, it's difficult to say. Unless in a powercut situation. The roads have plenty of street lighting.
I live in a city, the bright lights in the distance didn't give much help in the slightest.
As for ambient light, a total non starter.
Also made a short video.
Having trouble uploading to the forum. Keeps saying timed out as said to you yesterday.
Why not on a farm track. Were there 6 foot pot holes all over the place?
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Just seems a lot of pissing around to be honest the sea wall. He had a brand new astra on his driveway.
Just because Adam sees driving as a risk doesn't mean Bamber did.
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Why not on a farm track. Were there 6 foot pot holes all over the place?
Was bad surface sludgy. And up until recently we've have excellent weather up here.
Landrover tracks marks
Uneven surface.
Surrounded by shrubbery narrow.
In fairness I have the advantage of knowing the landscape from childhood. Built dens when I was a kid there.
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Walking it took time, visibility was poor none existant.
Cycling would just not be feasible.
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Walking it took time, visibility was poor none existant.
Cycling would just not be feasible.
Guess the prosecution and defence were wrong then.
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Was bad surface sludgy. And up until recently we've have excellent weather up here.
Landrover tracks marks
Uneven surface.
Surrounded by shrubbery narrow.
In fairness I have the advantage of knowing the landscape from childhood. Built dens when I was a kid there.
Uneven surface.
Hardy's video showed perfectly adequate terrain. On the Sea Wall.
The person was cycling it!
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Not on a farm track. Which I undertook on Tuesday evening ( albeit walking )
On the road, it's difficult to say. Unless in a powercut situation. The roads have plenty of street lighting.
I live in a city, the bright lights in the distance didn't give much help in the slightest.
As for ambient light, a total non starter.
Also made a short video.
Having trouble uploading to the forum. Keeps saying timed out as said to you yesterday.
Guess the prosecution and defence were wrong then.
GG said once his eyes got used to the ambient light it was 'so easy to see'.
But you would not accept that.
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No point ILB posting a video of a random place of his choosing.
However a video of when he visits The Sea Wall will be useful.
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Guess the prosecution and defence were wrong then.
GG said once his eyes got used to the ambient light it was 'so easy to see'.
But you would not accept that.
Seems we are confused what the narrative is in its entirety.
The COA, prosecution, Lomax, saying he walked then cycled back.
You saying he cycled there and back.
Julie saying the bike came two days before. Bamber taking it back then recollecting it.
All the while 1985 astra sat on his driveway!
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For me it is more important to get a video and photo of the route at night. I am more than happy that the terrain was perfectly adequate to cycle on.
The exception is the left turn around 300 yards before the prosecutions left turn. Would like to see that route in daylight.
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Seems we are confused what the narrative is in its entirety.
The COA, prosecution, Lomax, saying he walked then cycled back.
You saying he cycled there and back.
Julie saying the bike came two days before. Bamber taking it back then recollecting it.
All the while 1985 astra sat on his driveway!
COA:
132. The appellant agreed that his mother's bicycle had been at his home during the week before the killings.
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COA:
The Prosecution Case at Trial 145. The prosecution case at trial was that the appellant, motivated by hatred and greed, had planned and carried out the killings. Having left White House Farm at about 10 p.m. on Tuesday 6 August 1985 he had returned by bicycle (taking a route which avoided the main roads) in the early hours of the following morning.
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COA:
132. The appellant agreed that his mother's bicycle had been at his home during the week before the killings.
So why do the COA say that he walked then cycled back. As well as the prosecution Lomax etc
What you have stated there doesn't mean gospel that the bike was at the cottage on the evening of the massacre.
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COA:
The Prosecution Case at Trial 145. The prosecution case at trial was that the appellant, motivated by hatred and greed, had planned and carried out the killings. Having left White House Farm at about 10 p.m. on Tuesday 6 August 1985 he had returned by bicycle (taking a route which avoided the main roads) in the early hours of the following morning.
Exactly returned by bicycle.
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You said you believed he cycled both ways. To be fair, I also thought that was the allegation.
Julie says the bike was at the house.
Had he done a cycle trial run the Monday night before returning it?
But why would he if he was walking?
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Bambers official page says it's alleged he walked then cycled back.
Need to know for certain the actual allegation. It's important.
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Bambers official page says it's alleged he walked then cycled back.
Need to know for certain the actual allegation. It's important.
For me the OS is wrong. May be an innocent mistake.
Yvonne was saying the bike was at his cottage before the massacre as Julie was using it to cycle to the bus station. Which was also wrong. Julie had never used it.
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For me the OS is wrong. May be an innocent mistake.
Yvonne was saying the bike was at his cottage before the massacre as Julie was using it to cycle to the bus station. Which was also wrong. Julie had never used it.
Is the DPP wrong ?
Is the COA wrong?
Is lomax wrong?
I can't recall what cal and Wilkes said
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Is the DPP wrong ?
Is the COA wrong?
Is lomax wrong?
I can't recall what cal and Wilkes said
I will go by the prosecution stance. Julie's WS & testimony. Together with Bamber saying the bike was at Goldhanger pre massacre.
Together with common sense. No point in walking there and cycling back.
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Uneven surface.
Hardy's video showed perfectly adequate terrain. On the Sea Wall.
The person was cycling it!
To be fair, that was about a couple of years back, the terrain could well have been different back then, he was on a mountain bike which was a Raliegh with wider tyres and suspension and Bamber was on a sit up and beg ladies bike with narrow tyres, i'm not saying it couldn't be done, but the road just seems a better option for me than risk that at night?
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To be fair, that was about a couple of years back, the terrain could well have been different back then, he was on a mountain bike which was a Raliegh with wider tyres and suspension and Bamber was on a sit up and beg ladies bike with narrow tyres, i'm not saying it couldn't be done, but the road just seems a better option for me than risk that at night?
Best thing is to use a combination of now (video) & 1985 (Wilkinson's WS). Which says/shows it was possible to cycle The Sea Wall.
Three cycle route.options. ILB will confirm if there were 4 when he vists.
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The quickest cycle route is via Head Street, Church Street & Maldon Road. Turning off at the Brook House Farm track.
This is 100% roads. Took Wilkinson 16 minutes. Suspect it would take Bamber 10 minutes going at a good pace.
Even ILB will agree he could cycle this route in the dark. Bamber drove that route to work every day!
The problem is he going past a lot of properties. Although silently and there was no street lighting.
Believe this is CAL's route. The prosecution believe he avoided the main roads.
Lots of options.
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I will go by the prosecution stance. Julie's WS & testimony. Together with Bamber saying the bike was at Goldhanger pre massacre.
Together with common sense. No point in walking there and cycling back.
I will do more research.
Very important.
Can't see why three of the countries most senior judges would make a mistake with a key aspect at the COA.
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11732.msg539591.html#msg539591
Here is another video of The Sea Wall. The man walking it.
Obviously if you can walk normally on terrain, you can also cycle on it.
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11732.msg539591.html#msg539591
Here is another video of The Sea Wall. The man walking it.
Obviously if you can walk normally on terrain, you can also cycle on it.
As said I plan to replicate the 2am journey.
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The Brook House Farm route is the route he would have driven. Would rather cycle that route than drive.
Silent and a smaller object to be spotted. Unlikely anyone would see him from inside there properties as there was no street lighting. Perfect terrain for cycling. It would take less than 15 minutes to cycle and not use up much energy.
But the prosecution said he cycled The Sea Wall.
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The Brook House Farm route is the route he would have driven. Would rather cycle that route than drive.
Silent and a smaller object to be spotted. Unlikely anyone would see him from inside there properties as there was no street lighting. Perfect terrain for cycling. It would take less than 15 minutes to cycle and not use up much energy.
But the prosecution said he cycled The Sea Wall.
There are actually two routes he could have drove.
I'm not sure what the agenda was anymore
Seems the prosecution and COA are saying he walked there.
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There are actually two routes he could have drove.
I'm not sure what the agenda was anymore
Seems the prosecution and COA are saying he walked there.
The prosecution are saying he cycled there and back -
COA:
The Prosecution Case at Trial 145. The prosecution case at trial was that the appellant, motivated by hatred and greed, had planned and carried out the killings. Having left White House Farm at about 10 p.m. on Tuesday 6 August 1985 he had returned by bicycle (taking a route which avoided the main roads) in the early hours of the following morning.
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The prosecution are saying he cycled there and back -
COA:
The Prosecution Case at Trial 145. The prosecution case at trial was that the appellant, motivated by hatred and greed, had planned and carried out the killings. Having left White House Farm at about 10 p.m. on Tuesday 6 August 1985 he had returned by bicycle (taking a route which avoided the main roads) in the early hours of the following morning.
That does not day he made the outward journey via cycle.
It says he returned by cycle.
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That does not day he made the outward journey via cycle.
It says he returned by cycle.
It says he left WHF around 10pm (supper). Then returned by bike.
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Seems the CT are doing a walk themselves.
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Even the CT say 'difficulties, rather than impossibility.
No one's suggesting a red carpet was laid out for his cycle ride. But the reward was worth the 'difficulties'.
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Even the CT say 'difficulties, rather than impossibility.
No one's suggesting a red carpet was laid out for his cycle ride. But the reward was worth the 'difficulties'.
Bamber will have been the one who will have suggested they do this you know.
Seems everything has to be ran by Jeremy for his approval.
He calls the sea wall scenario " laughable and madness "
They are going with the intention to convey that the route wasn't practical to do.
Otherwise what else would be the point? They are his campaign team. When I go I am just going for self interest as an independent.
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Seems the CT are doing a walk themselves.
:-[
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:-[
Although on the fence I must admit I never liked the grave reading bake off or things like this.
I think case related protests are ok though.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://podtail.com/en/podcast/jeremy-bamber-and-white-house-farm/&ved=2ahUKEwj0h9Gqp7CFAxXvUEEAHYMzBhcQFnoECC0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw25_fzEWrTrGbq-A5NKDjjB
Barbara D'eath interview.
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Listened to the first 20 minutes.
BD still has not said why she would be on Bamber's Sea Wall route. Which was up to 5 miles away from the Osea Leisure Park.
Disappointed Phillip & Yvonne said they only walked some of the the route from Goldhanger for 45 minutes. Then gave up & turned back. Wilkinson said in 85 it took him 70 minutes to walk. Suspect they got disillusioned as the terrain was adequate.
Phillip & Yvonne did say they also walked some of the route from WHF. Assume that is down Pages Lane and the adjoined farm track to The Sea Wall.
Disagree with Phillip that June's bike would get a puncture after 50 yards. Bikes are made for cycling. On roads, pavements, grass & farm tracks. Can only recall two punctures since getting my first bike at around 8. Wilkinson did not get a puncture.
Don't agree ducks & insects maybe being on the Sea Wall would have deterred Bamber.
Phillip did say Bamber would have been spotted from afar. This must be due to the good ambient light GG mentioned.
As said before, if it can walked, it can be cycled.
So far Phillip and Yvonne have not said they went there at night. Which is surprising. They could have taken photos of the outside darkness & anyone on The Sea Wall and interviewed these mysterious night fishermen.
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Listened to the first 20 minutes.
Disagree with Phillip that June's bike would get a puncture after 50 yards. Bikes are made for cycling. On roads, pavements, grass & farm tracks. Can only recall two punctures since getting my first bike at around 8. Wilkinson did not get a puncture.
You'd be very unlucky to get a puncture cycling along footpaths/bridleways and byways.
I cycle all the time along byways and bridleways, often on long forgotten bridleways too, which are overgrown, and still manage to get across in one piece. It is rare to get a puncture.
Jeremy Bamber would have been unlucky to get a puncture that night, but if he had, I reckon he would have just given up. Had he got a puncture he may have decided not to murder his family.
What is more telling though, is that Bamber supporters are so willing to make a statement that they know has no relationship with the truth. It shows that they are willing to just make stuff up to make a story fit with their innocence scenario.
They wouldn't have to do any of that if there was any actual evidence that showed Jeremy Bamber to be innocent. They know that there is overwhelming evidence to show that Jeremy Bamber is guilty, and that Sheila is innocent.
And so they lie. And they even lie when they don't need to.
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You'd be very unlucky to get a puncture cycling along footpaths/bridleways and byways.
I cycle all the time along byways and bridleways, often on long forgotten bridleways too, which are overgrown, and still manage to get across in one piece. It is rare to get a puncture.
Jeremy Bamber would have been unlucky to get a puncture that night, but if he had, I reckon he would have just given up. Had he got a puncture he may have decided not to murder his family.
What is more telling though, is that Bamber supporters are so willing to make a statement that they know has no relationship with the truth. It shows that they are willing to just make stuff up to make a story fit with their innocence scenario.
They wouldn't have to do any of that if there was any actual evidence that showed Jeremy Bamber to be innocent. They know that there is overwhelming evidence to show that Jeremy Bamber is guilty, and that Sheila is innocent.
And so they lie. And they even lie when they don't need to.
Hardy Boy's video has someone cycling The Sea Wall. Wilkinson & Gunfire Graffiti also cycled it and did not report a puncture.
Cross country Mountain bike competitions have the bikes going over rough uneven terrain at high speed without getting a puncture. June's bike could handle level farm tracks.
If he got a puncture on the way back, he would have to carry the bike back. Or dump it somewhere. But as you said, very unlucky if he got one.
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You need to visit it Adam.
I am doing so.
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You need to visit it Adam.
I am doing so.
You don't need to visit the Brook House Farm cycle route. Most of that is covered by Google Maps 3D. It is 100% roads.
You don't need to walk across fields. There will be a way although hard work.
Satisfied the terrain of the prosecution route is fine to cycle. But nothing wrong with more photos or video footage. Hopefully you cover the whole route unlike Yvonne and Phillip. The farm track adjoining The Sea Wall & Pages Lane will be interesting.
For me people can travel in outside darkness quite easily in areas they know. However it needs to be visited at night to confirm it is empty.
Be good to know about the left turning Farm Track off The Sea Wall around 300 yards before the prosecutions left turn. This goes to Pages Lane and avoids Wyke Farm. Could it be cycled.
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Need to add that information regarding the route from 9, Head Street to the start of The Sea Wall would be interesting. Via his back garden.
This looks straight forward & avoids properties. Jane said Thistley Close and some of Fish Street were not there in 1985.
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Brand new astra sat on his driveway.
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Brand new astra sat on his driveway.
Am aware of that.
Just trying to ensure your feedback covers everything.
Yvonne and Philips feedback was disappointing.
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Brand new astra sat on his driveway.
There was someone who walked past the house around midnight and Bamber's car was still there. That's not to say he didn't use it a couple of hours later, but it would have been a huge risk.
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There was someone who walked past the house around midnight and Bamber's car was still there. That's not to say he didn't use it a couple of hours later, but it would have been a huge risk.
Where did you read that Steve? But also, how would someone remember seeing his car on the drive? Bamber wasn't a suspect until weeks later so no one would have been asked about him or his car until a time when he was being investigated.
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ILB disputes anything that goes against Bamber. That is fine. People have different tactics regarding support.
This month he denied there is a farm track adjoining The Sea Wall and Pages Lane. Even though it's been the prosecution route for 39 years & Google Maps Satellite shows it! He only agreed it was there after realising it could benefit him due to Bamber (maybe) having to cycle past Wyke Farm.
However I have faith he will provide good photos. No point taking photos of fields with poor terrain and then saying he couldn't cycle it. Everyone knows the prosecution route is on foot/cycle paths and farm tracks.
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Where did you read that Steve? But also, how would someone remember seeing his car on the drive? Bamber wasn't a suspect until weeks later so no one would have been asked about him or his car until a time when he was being investigated.
Appendix 1 Carol Ann Lee:
Jeremy telephoned Julie from Bourtree Cottage around 10pm. He sounded "pissed off", telling her: "I've been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never." Aware that he was referring to killing his entire family, Julie told him not to be stupid-he was just fed up because he had been stuck on the tractor all day. They spoke for about twenty minutes. He told her she might hear from him later, athough Julie "thought nothing of this."
Jeremy later described how, after ending the call, he had something to eat and drink and watched television before going to bed around 11:30pm. None of his neighbours heard anything from him. A local car valet who knew Jeremy by sight took a stroll around the village about midnight after drinking in the Chequers; he noticed a number of cars outside Bourtree Cottage, including Jeremy's Astra, but couldn't remember if any lights were on inside the property.
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ILB disputes anything that goes against Bamber. That is fine. People have different tactics regarding support.
This month he denied there is a farm track adjoining The Sea Wall and Pages Lane. Even though it's been the prosecution route for 39 years & Google Maps Satellite shows it! He only agreed it was there after realising it could benefit him due to Bamber (maybe) having to cycle past Wyke Farm.
However I have faith he will provide good photos. No point taking photos of fields with poor terrain and then saying he couldn't cycle it. Everyone knows the prosecution route is on foot/cycle paths and farm tracks.
I fail to see how I believe he drove if gulity is not going against him ?
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I fail to see how I believe he drove if gulity is not going against him ?
What parts of the prosecution case do you agree with?
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What parts of the prosecution case do you agree with?
What part of the defence case do you disagree with ?
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I find the star witnesses evidence " suspect ,"
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What part of the defence case do you disagree with ?
All of it.
I am a guilter. You say you are 'on the fence'.
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You'd be very unlucky to get a puncture cycling along footpaths/bridleways and byways.
I cycle all the time along byways and bridleways, often on long forgotten bridleways too, which are overgrown, and still manage to get across in one piece. It is rare to get a puncture.
Jeremy Bamber would have been unlucky to get a puncture that night, but if he had, I reckon he would have just given up. Had he got a puncture he may have decided not to murder his family.
What is more telling though, is that Bamber supporters are so willing to make a statement that they know has no relationship with the truth. It shows that they are willing to just make stuff up to make a story fit with their innocence scenario.
They wouldn't have to do any of that if there was any actual evidence that showed Jeremy Bamber to be innocent. They know that there is overwhelming evidence to show that Jeremy Bamber is guilty, and that Sheila is innocent.
And so they lie. And they even lie when they don't need to.
Really? I was cycling on holiday off road in the New Forrest and got a puncture within half an hour with a mountain bike.
You never answered my question on what astrophotography you do? Unless I missed it?
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All of it.
I am a guilter. You say you are 'on the fence'.
We should all be on the fence.
Only one man on the planet the guy currently sat in HMP wakefield knows the truth.
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Really? I was cycling on holiday off road in the New Forrest and got a puncture within half an hour with a mountain bike.
You never answered my question on what astrophotography you do? Unless I missed it?
He will only answer questions he can goad you with in terms of a response.
Which is fine
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He will only answer questions he can goad you with in terms of a response.
Which is fine
Killingeve is not like that.
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We should all be on the fence.
Only one man on the planet the guy currently sat in HMP wakefield knows the truth.
Most people are either supporters or guilters.
But appreciate you don't want to commit.
Being 'on the fence' there should be things on the prosecution case you agree with.
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Most people are either supporters or guilters.
But appreciate you don't want to commit.
Being 'on the fence' there should be things on the prosecution case you agree with.
I think he is an innocent man who was a victim of circumstances on the whole.Which is why I've always lent to innocence
Although there are certain elements of the prosecution case which I see as feasible.
Happy to list examples, and have done before. They are on this board.
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I think he is an innocent man who was a victim of circumstances on the whole.Which is why I've always lent to innocence
Although there are certain elements of the prosecution case which I see as feasible.
Happy to list examples, and have done before. They are on this board.
A list would be good. I seem to have forgotten when you did before.
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A list would be good. I seem to have forgotten when you did before.
Do you what pro Jeremy and against or just against?
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Do you what pro Jeremy and against or just against?
State what parts of the prosecution case you agree with.
I have only read you dispute it. Most recently saying the prosecition route didn't exist!
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State what parts of the prosecution case you agree with.
I have only read you dispute it. Most recently saying the prosecition route didn't exist!
I never said it didn't exist. I said I didn't think it was feasible. You know this.
From a guilt perspective I offered the view of him driving. Don't twist things
In answer to your question, I believe certain elements can circumstantially insinuate guilt and they are simple things.
The rifle story.
Michael fielder
The comment to Colin at the party prior to the massacre
Lying about going on shooting trips with Shelia
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I never said it didn't exist. I said I didn't think it was feasible. You know this.
From a guilt perspective I offered the view of him driving. Don't twist things
In answer to your question, I believe certain elements can circumstantially insinuate guilt and they are simple things.
The rifle story.
Michael fielder
The comment to Colin at the party prior to the massacre
Lying about going on shooting trips with Shelia
Well you refused to acknoledge there was a farm track adjoining The Sea Wall and Pages Lane. But now you do.
Do you dispute all the forensic evidence?
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Well you refused to acknoledge there was a farm track adjoining The Sea Wall and Pages Lane. But now you do.
Do you dispute all the forensic evidence?
The silencer I think is refutable.
Ismails theory ( paragraph 518 cos 2002 was an interesting. However I don't agree with it. ( A gravitational excersise )
GSR is not a sustainable element.
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The burns leave me flummoxed in all honesty.
Even from a guilt view I believe as a sign of life test is " weak and stupid and unfeasible "
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Well you refused to acknoledge there was a farm track adjoining The Sea Wall and Pages Lane. But now you do.
Do you dispute all the forensic evidence?
I don't agree with anything adjourning until I visit.
You dismissed Robert Boutflour and Jeremy Bamber. We aren't local men. They were.
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The silencer I think is refutable.
Ismails theory ( paragraph 518 cos 2002 was an interesting. However I don't agree with it. ( A gravitational excersise )
GSR is not a sustainable element.
Well there are 89 pieces of forensic evidence. All sourced.
Bamber disputes the silencer.
Do you think the experts were all wrong or deliberately submitted false evidence. Or a bit of both?
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Well there are 89 pieces of forensic evidence. All sourced.
Bamber disputes the silencer.
Do you think the experts were all wrong or deliberately submitted false evidence. Or a bit of both?
Well Ismail did his report in 1999. 14 years after the trial. It will never effect anything. As said its a prediction and a gravatational excersise.
I've disputed your ever changing pieces before. There on this forum
As has David and guest29835.
Nice try.
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I don't agree with anything adjourning until I visit.
You dismissed Robert Boutflour and Jeremy Bamber. We aren't local men. They were.
Well it's on Google maps & has been the prosecution route for 39 years.
Hardy Boy has seen it & Wilkinson said it is tarmaked.
Not really a surprise there is a farm track. Gives the residents of Wyke & WHF a route to The Sea Wall. But you want to visit it which is fine.
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Well it's on Google maps & has been the prosecution route for 39 years.
Hardy Boy has seen it & Wilkinson said it is tarmaked.
Not really a surprise there is a farm track. Gives the residents of Wyke & WHF a route to The Sea Wall. But you want to visit it which is fine.
Thanks for that Adam.
Id still rather visit.
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GG saw it with his night vision goggles.
Taking the brave but sincere decision to take the blog down.
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Well Ismail did his report in 1999. 14 years after the trial. It will never effect anything. As said its a prediction and a gravatational excersise.
I've disputed your ever changing pieces before. There on this forum
As has David and guest29835.
Nice try.
When I find new sourced evidence, the list increases. Currently 89 pieces of equal weight.
I know you disputed it. You dispute everything against Bamber.
Do you believe the experts lied or were wrong. Or a bit of both?
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When I find new sourced evidence, the list increases. Currently 89 pieces of equal weight.
I know you disputed it. You dispute everything against Bamber.
Do you believe the experts lied or were wrong. Or a bit of both?
Which experts?
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When I find new sourced evidence, the list increases. Currently 89 pieces of equal weight.
I know you disputed it. You dispute everything against Bamber.
Do you believe the experts lied or were wrong. Or a bit of both?
I don't dispute everything against Bamber.
As retierated.
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Seems Adam is suggesting he knows the track intimately.
" Giving the users of WHF and wyke farm full access to the sea wall "
Despite never being there in his life by his own words.
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Which experts?
The experts which have produced 89 pieces of forensic evidence. Outlined in the COA.
Do you believe the experts are part of the industrial frame?
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The experts which have produced 89 pieces of forensic evidence. Outlined in the COA.
Do you believe the experts are part of the industrial frame?
Source of your 89 experts in the COA judgement. All 500 odd paragraphs please.
I have the document to my disposal a mere mouse click away.
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Seems Adam is suggesting he knows the track intimately.
" Giving the users of WHF and wyke farm full access to the sea wall "
Despite never being there in his life by his own words.
The Sea Wall is a public footpath. Everyone has full access to it.
Not surprising there is a farm track from Pages Lane to it. WHF & Wyke Farm is on Pages Lane. Together with other properties.
Bamber may not have used it anyway. Depending on your feedback of the other farm track.
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Do you believe the experts are part of the industrial frame?
No, and I don't have to. I'm not the one serving the whole life tariff.
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The Sea Wall is a public footpath. Everyone has full access to it.
Not surprising there is a farm track from Pages Lane to it. WHF & Wyke Farm is on Pages Lane. Together with other properties.
Bamber may not have used it anyway. Depending on your feedback of the other farm track.
Believe he drove if gulity. As mentioned before.
But appreciate anyone who doesn't agree with you is " disputing for Bamber"
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The Sea Wall is a public footpath. Everyone has full access to it.
Not surprising there is a farm track from Pages Lane to it. WHF & Wyke Farm is on Pages Lane. Together with other properties.
Bamber may not have used it anyway. Depending on your feedback of the other farm track.
Goes through three farms prior.
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Goes through three farms prior.
It goes through Wyke Farm. As stated by Wilkinson. Which is better than driving past 45.
Or he can go around the back.
Not sure how many residents were there. WHF usually had 2 residents. Together with farm workers in seperate properties.
You will confirm whether he had the option of avoiding Wyke farm completely upon your visit.
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It goes through Wyke Farm. As stated by Wilkinson. Which is better than driving past 45.
Or he can go around the back.
Not sure how many residents were there. WHF usually had 2 residents. Together with farm workers in seperate properties.
You will confirm whether he had the option of avoiding Wyke farm completely upon your visit.
Very risky
Yes I'll confirm
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Appendix 1 Carol Ann Lee:
Jeremy telephoned Julie from Bourtree Cottage around 10pm. He sounded "pissed off", telling her: "I've been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never." Aware that he was referring to killing his entire family, Julie told him not to be stupid-he was just fed up because he had been stuck on the tractor all day. They spoke for about twenty minutes. He told her she might hear from him later, athough Julie "thought nothing of this."
Jeremy later described how, after ending the call, he had something to eat and drink and watched television before going to bed around 11:30pm. None of his neighbours heard anything from him. A local car valet who knew Jeremy by sight took a stroll around the village about midnight after drinking in the Chequers; he noticed a number of cars outside Bourtree Cottage, including Jeremy's Astra, but couldn't remember if any lights were on inside the property.
Thanks Steve. I still question how anyone could recall seeing his car weeks later.
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Thanks Steve. I still question how anyone could recall seeing his car weeks later.
What do you think of Bamber's reason for June's bike arriving at his cottage 2 days before the massacre - so Julie could cycle several miles to catch a bus when going home?
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The left turn pathway around 300 yards before the prosecutions does look very wide & cycle friendly. Going by enlarging Google Maps Satellite.
As Rob said farm tracks are partly designed for tractors.
This farm track actually leads part of the way to a farm. Which is around 150 yards away from where Bamber would take his right turn towards Pages Lane.
After his right turn he goes across two fields onto Pages Lane. Completely avoiding Wyke Farm. The tracks alongside these two fields don't look as wide. But still good enough to cycle on.
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If he couldn't cycle alongside the final two fields, he could dump the bike & walk across them. Collecting the bike on the way back.
This walk across these 2 fields leads him to the back of WHF. Avoiding Wyke Farm. A walk of 100 - 300 yards.
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The prosecution would want to submit one cycle route to the jury.
The left turn farm track they choose does lead from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane in a virtual straight line. The shortest route and on the best terrain.
Wyke Farm is a long way from Pages Lane. No one will hear or see a silent bike spending 5-10 seconds going past in 2am outside darkness.
However for me, unless shown otherwise after ILB's visit, Bamber also had the other farm track option onto Pages Lane which avoided Wyke Farm.
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The prosecution would want to submit one cycle route to the jury.
The left turn farm track they choose does lead from The Sea Wall to Pages Lane in a virtual straight line. The shortest route and on the best terrain.
Wyke Farm is a long way from Pages Lane. No one will hear or see a bike spending 5-10 seconds going past in 2am outside darkness.
However for me, unless shown otherwise after ILB's visit, for me he also had the other farm track option onto Pages Lane which avoided Wyke Farm.
The prosecution said the following................ on Tuesday 6 August 1985 he had returned by bicycle (taking a route which avoided the main roads) in the early hours of the following morning. They cannot give one cycle route because they don't know the route he took, just like you don't know and no one on this forum knows if he cycled or not. How do i know this...........no one has come forward and said they seen him cycle a route and he hasn't admitted he cycled a route. They went for him cycling, because JM said he planned to cycle and in a later statement on the 18/11/1985 went back to say that she saw the cycle at Jeremy's cottage on the Sunday the 4th and it wasn't at the house the day of the murders on the 7th. So if he cycled there and back, how do you account for Julie not seeing the bike again at the House?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4952.0;attach=34828;image
Ann is still looking for the Cycle on the 15th of August.
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The prosecution said the following................ on Tuesday 6 August 1985 he had returned by bicycle (taking a route which avoided the main roads) in the early hours of the following morning. They cannot give one cycle route because they don't know the route he took, just like you don't know and no one on this forum knows if he cycled or not. How do i know this...........no one has come forward and said they seen him cycle a route and he hasn't admitted he cycled a route. They went for him cycling, because JM said he planned to cycle and in a later statement on the 18/11/1985 went back to say that she saw the cycle at Jeremy's cottage on the Sunday the 4th and it wasn't at the house the day of the murders on the 7th. So if he cycled there and back, how do you account for Julie not seeing the bike again at the House?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4952.0;attach=34828;image
Ann is still looking for the Cycle on the 15th of August.
It was at the farm on the day of the murders. Bamber probably put it somewhere out of the way. He said himself he had brought the bike over for Julie to use. Didn't AE find it in the shed?
Once ILB gives his photographic feedback on the other left turn farm track leading to Pages Lane, everyone will know whether he had another option after leaving The Sea Wall. To me it looks very much like he did have the other option.
Agree we will never know what route he took.
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It was at the farm on the day of the murders. Bamber probably put it somewhere out of the way. He said himself he had brought the bike over for Julie to use. Didn't AE find it in the shed?
Once ILB gives his photographic feedback on the other left turn farm track leading to Pages Lane, everyone will know whether he had another option after leaving The Sea Wall. To me it looks very much like he did have the other option.
Agree we will never know what route he took.
Although we will never know the route he took, there should be a plausible one.
Once you are off the public rights of way, it is unlikely the tracks are cycle friendly, and public rights of way can be pretty rough anyway.
I cannot find the route you are referring to that avoids Wycke's farm? using public rights of way that is? Edges of fields are not public rights of way and generally would not be cyclable.
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It was at the farm on the day of the murders. Bamber probably put it somewhere out of the way. He said himself he had brought the bike over for Julie to use. Didn't AE find it in the shed?
Once ILB gives his photographic feedback on the other left turn farm track leading to Pages Lane, everyone will know whether he had another option after leaving The Sea Wall. To me it looks very much like he did have the other option.
Agree we will never know what route he took.
Ann found it at Jeremy's cottage on the 22nd of August it was outside the backdoor, yet Julie never saw it, so where had it been?..........Barlow seen it there the previous day at Jeremy's cottage
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5815.0;attach=37694;image
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Have to go by RB and Jeremy as a valid source until I make the pilmagrige there myself.
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What do you think of Bamber's reason for June's bike arriving at his cottage 2 days before the massacre - so Julie could cycle several miles to catch a bus when going home?
No idea - why ever it was there, I don't think he used the bike.
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No idea - why ever it was there, I don't think he used the bike.
Please give your opinion. Third request.
What do you think of Bamber's reason for bringing the bike to his cottage 2 days before the massacre - so Julie could cycle several miles to get a bus when going home?
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Have to go by RB and Jeremy as a valid source until I make the pilmagrige there myself.
So Bamber knew about The Sea Wall.
Wonder why he never testified or said in his police interviews or to his lawyers it couldn't be cycled.
The prosecution said he cycled The Sea Wall and the defence agreed it was possible.
Agree RB believes he cycled and said there was sufficient light.
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Although we will never know the route he took, there should be a plausible one.
Once you are off the public rights of way, it is unlikely the tracks are cycle friendly, and public rights of way can be pretty rough anyway.
I cannot find the route you are referring to that avoids Wycke's farm? using public rights of way that is? Edges of fields are not public rights of way and generally would not be cyclable.
You were saying the farm tracks around fields are wide enough for tractors. Which going by Google Maps Satellite I agree with. So certainly fine to walk & cycle.
Not sure what 'public right of way' is supposed to mean. If the terrain was adequate then it was a cycle option.
Please do not pretend you don't know the farm track I am referring to.
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Seems there are different views over Bamber's cycle ride. Even amongst guilters.
From what I know I believe I would power through the route on June's bike at night.
Killingeve believes he would cycle.
Jane believes she would find cycling the route physically difficult.
Zoso believes he would take the huge risk of driving. But hasn't given any advantages or an opinion of Bamber's reason for June's bike arriving at his cottage.
Hardy Boy says he cycles in the countryside day and night & posted a video of someone easily cycling The Sea Wall. But seems to believe he drove.
The prosecution believe Bamber's attitude would be more in line with me & Killingeve. A fit young man who knew the area would find the cycle ride easy & would be aware of the huge advantage. The 500k+ reward would help motivate him.
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One post ILB is posting RB's WS cannot be trusted as he is a guilter.
Next he is posting 'have to go by RB as a valid source'!
ILB has not provided any extracts from RB's WS to support his statement regarding 'steep inclines' & 'cycling across fields'. Bamber didn't mention either pre or during trial.
The videos, photos & Wilkinson's WS show level terrain on the cycle route.
Not sure why Bamber would cycle across fields when there are farm tracks going alongside fields.
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It was at the farm on the day of the murders. Bamber probably put it somewhere out of the way.
So if it was at the Farm on the day of the murders, and Bamber hid it somewhere how did he get back to his house? Julie say's the Bike wasn't at the house on the 7th so it must have been at the Farm and say's she never saw it again, ann never seen it till the 22nd of August at Bambers outside the back door.
Could well be he bought the cycle back on the 4th of August for a trial run along the sea wall and he thought "fook that for a game of soldiers" ;D ;D ;D
When do you plan to Power Cycle along the Sea Wall LANCE on your Ladies Cycle in the middle of the Night, i would Personally pay to watch you do it, as i'm sure others on here would.
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Seems Adam is calling both Bamber and RB liars despite both men knowing the area exceptionally well.
Weird why Adam does this, he has never been there according to him.
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Obviously the car is what he would have used if gulity.
Pissing around on a ladies bike, up inclines and fields at 2am is just not feasible.
De'ath confirmed the wall and Bambers route would be populated.
A pro guilters GG took a blog down when he undertook the seawall with night vision goggles.
Bamber called the route " laughable and madness " ( fair enough thats biased but he's a local guy )
RB confirming fields and inclines.
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Reading Dennis Wagers statement this morning. Clears Bamber of Adams accusation that he set the caravan shop on fire.
Quite why Bamber would do that when he was making money from the park is madness. But this is Adam.
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Seems Adam is calling both Bamber and RB liars despite both men knowing the area exceptionally well.
Weird why Adam does this, he has never been there according to him.
You need to make a decision on RB's WS.
You either agree with it or not. You can't just agree with it when it suits you.
And you still haven't quoted RB's extract regarding cycling across fields.
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You need to make a decision on RB's WS.
You either agree with it or not. You can't just agree with it when it suits you.
And you still haven't quoted RB's extract regarding cycling across fields.
" Oh no I could easily kill my parents " is different to the landscape of an area.
You know this
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I do agree with Phillip that Bamber wouldn't take a bike just so he could carry it across fields he couldn't cycle on. Espescially as every field has a farm track on it's edge!
I don't agree with Yvonne that ducks and insects would deter Bamber. He was a farm labourer!
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" Oh no I could easily kill my parents " is different to the landscape of an area.
You know this
Please quote the extract from RB's WS regarding cycling across fields.
Final request.
Seems you agree with RB regarding sufficient light on the cycle route.
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Please quote the extract from RB's WS regarding cycling across fields.
Final request.
Seems you agree with RB regarding sufficient light on the cycle route.
I am not a student in your school. There are plenty of documents diary notes letters of RB. Do your research.
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It's obvious the guy if gulity just jumped in the motor. He might have even used the blue farm van.
There's no way he pissed about cycling it.
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Seems that anything that involves 20 minutes of effort in obtaining 500k+ by killing people is 'too much pissing about' for ILB.
Not exactly the master criminal.
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Seems that anything that involves 20 minutes of effort in obtaining 500k+ by killing people is 'too much pissing about' for ILB.
Not exactly the master criminal.
Going over a populated track.
Even Bamber would say " it's a fair cop guv"
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Going over a populated track.
Even Bamber would say " it's a fair cop guv"
Do you think Bamber stopped off to have a hamburger with the teenagers having a BBQ?
Nothing wrong with a 2am snack.
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Don't know why Adam just doesn't say.
" Yes he had a brand new astra on his driveway and it would have been a 8 minute drive and he wouldn't have been seen but I believe he pissed around on a ladies bike on a populated sea wall in darkness"
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Please give your opinion. Third request.
What do you think of Bamber's reason for bringing the bike to his cottage 2 days before the massacre - so Julie could cycle several miles to get a bus when going home?
I have already said that I think he either walked or drove. I don't think he used the bike but that's not to say he didn't. These are just opinions Adam. I've never given it as much consideration as you have but Bamber seems to me to be a person who would always take the easy path and driving would have been less hassle.
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I have already said that I think he either walked or drove. I don't think he used the bike but that's not to say he didn't. These are just opinions Adam. I've never given it as much consideration as you have but Bamber seems to me to be a person who would always take the easy path and driving would have been less hassle.
Ok you don't believe Bamber's reason for bringing the bike over. Which I agree with.
Julie cycling several miles lumbering a suitcase with her instead of getting a taxi or lift, is about as likely as Nevill ringing up Bamber's AM.
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Bamber and Arlidge went over it at trial
Will upload
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You were saying the farm tracks around fields are wide enough for tractors. Which going by Google Maps Satellite I agree with. So certainly fine to walk & cycle.
Not sure what 'public right of way' is supposed to mean. If the terrain was adequate then it was a cycle option.
Please do not pretend you don't know the farm track I am referring to.
You are getting worse Adam, it's rather sad really, although some public rights of way you would be able to cycle on I have never seen anyone doing this.
Of course I don't know the farm track you are referring to and neither do you. You would be able to walk along it, but very doubtful you could cycle along it in the dark.
I was once in a field and someone tapped me on the shoulder making me jump. The chap said any chance of a tow, I turned round and he had a 4x4 bogged up to it's axles. I walked over to his vehicle and soon got him going. Cycling no way!
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Ok you don't believe Bamber's reason for bringing the bike over. Which I agree with.
Julie cycling several miles lumbering a suitcase with her instead of getting a taxi or lift, is about as likely as Nevill ringing up Bamber's AM.
No, I don't believe that the bike was for Julie.
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So if it was at the Farm on the day of the murders, and Bamber hid it somewhere how did he get back to his house? Julie say's the Bike wasn't at the house on the 7th so it must have been at the Farm and say's she never saw it again, ann never seen it till the 22nd of August at Bambers outside the back door.
Could well be he bought the cycle back on the 4th of August for a trial run along the sea wall and he thought "fook that for a game of soldiers" ;D ;D ;D
When do you plan to Power Cycle along the Sea Wall LANCE on your Ladies Cycle in the middle of the Night, i would Personally pay to watch you do it, as i'm sure others on here would.
So would I! and when Adam has finished powering over the rutted farm tracks and long grass a simple inspection of the cycle would show it was obvious what the bike had been used for.
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He testified at trial about it.
Will upload the screenshot in due course.
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No, I don't believe that the bike was for Julie.
Neither do I or EP.
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You are getting worse Adam, it's rather sad really, although some public rights of way you would be able to cycle on I have never seen anyone doing this.
Of course I don't know the farm track you are referring to and neither do you. You would be able to walk along it, but very doubtful you could cycle along it in the dark.
I was once in a field and someone tapped me on the shoulder making me jump. The chap said any chance of a tow, I turned round and he had a 4x4 bogged up to it's axles. I walked over to his vehicle and soon got him going. Cycling no way!
On Google Maps Satellite there is one black field between the other farm track and the prosecutions farm track. I can not make it any easier for you to find.
Everyone on here has to go by the photos, videos and Wilkinson's/RB's WS's. Which shows good cycling terrain. Otherwise it would not be the prosecution case.
I also directed you to Gunfire Graffiti's vlog who cycled routes but you refused to read it. Which was a bit ignorant of you.
I don't believe ducks or insects maybe being on the route would deter Bamber, as Yvonne suggested.
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ILB's claims of 'steep inclines' has been dismissed. He did not provide a source.
The photos, videos and Wilkinson's WS confirm level terrain.
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ILB's claims of cycling across fields has been dismissed. He did not provide a source.
The Sea Wall is a foot/cycle path. There is at least one farm track from The Sea Wall onto Pages Lane.
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If the cycle was used at all, did he use it in both directions or did he hide it when he returned which makes it more suspicious?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4952.0;attach=34828;image
Julie states that when she left to go to London on the Sunday the 4th the bike was at the House, but when Julie returned on the 7th, the bike WASN'T there..................... she doesn't say she didn't SEE it, she say's it WASN'T there at the house? She never saw the cycle again. Ann never seen it at the house till the 22nd of August and it was outside the back door................ if it was outside the back door all the time both Ann and Julie would have seen it earlier?
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Adam couldn't dismiss anything.
Thanks Adam for accepting you can find the source.
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You were saying the farm tracks around fields are wide enough for tractors. Which going by Google Maps Satellite I agree with. So certainly fine to walk & cycle.
Not sure what 'public right of way' is supposed to mean. If the terrain was adequate then it was a cycle option.
Please do not pretend you don't know the farm track I am referring to.
Well you certainly don't Adam as you only just recently found out where WHF is.
How many posts have you made on JB cycling the sea wall / farm tracks and you don't know what a public right of way is! You have never looked at a map have you!
You posted recently you knew every footpath within what was it five miles of where you live obviously only the smooth tarmac type.
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Well you certainly don't Adam as you only just recently found out where WHF is.
How many posts have you made on JB cycling the sea wall / farm tracks and you don't know what a public right of way is! You have never looked at a map have you!
You posted recently you knew every footpath within what was it five miles of where you live obviously only the smooth tarmac type.
Well I found out before you. Using Google Maps.
I said I could cycle anywhere around where I live without artificial lighting. This would be on roads but farm tracks would make no difference.
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Well I found out before you. Using Google Maps.
I said I could cycle anywhere around where I live without artificial lighting. This would be on roads but farm tracks would make no difference.
Google Maps does not show public rights of way.
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'In England and Wales, excluding the 12 Inner London boroughs and the City of London, the right of way is a legally protected right of the public to pass and re-pass on specific paths.'
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And? Bamber cycled The Sea Wall, farm tracks & Pages Lane.
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'In England and Wales, excluding the 12 Inner London boroughs and the City of London, the right of way is a legally protected right of the public to pass and re-pass on specific paths.'
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And? Bamber cycled The Sea Wall, farm tracks & Pages Lane.
You are the one claiming he cycled that night and you have only just found out what a public right of way is. Which means ?
For your information anything that is not a right of way (in the countryside) is unlikely to be cycle friendly. Shows that you do absolutely zero research.
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You are the one claiming he cycled that night and you have only just found out what a public right of way is. Which means ?
For your information anything that is not a right of way (in the countryside) is unlikely to be cycle friendly. Shows that you do absolutely zero research.
How do you know what is a public right of way on Bamber's route?
Wilkinson & Gunfire Graffiti said it was easy to cycle.
Hardy Boy's video shows The Sea Wall can be cycled. The man was cycling it!
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How do you know what is a public right of way on Bamber's route?
Wilkinson & Gunfire Graffiti said it was easy to cycle.
Hardy Boy's video shows The Sea Wall can be cycled. The man was cycling it!
Because I have checked.
I cannot find a route that keeps Bamber a decent distance from properties perhaps you can help me?
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Because I have checked.
I cannot find a route that keeps Bamber a decent distance from properties perhaps you can help me?
How did you check?
You said the farm tracks are wide enough for tractors.
Try the 39 year old prosecution route.
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How did you check?
You said the farm tracks are wide enough for tractors.
Try the 39 year old prosecution route.
Tractors are designed to travel over extremely rough ground unless I am mistaken? cycles are not.
What was the 39 year prosecution route? I don't believe Bamber could cycle through farms that night?
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Tractors are designed to travel over extremely rough ground unless I am mistaken? cycles are not.
What was the 39 year prosecution route? I don't believe Bamber could cycle through farms that night?
You don't know the prosecution route. You need to start researching.
Bamber's route is a straight forward 20 minute cycle ride on good, level terrain.
But appreciate supporters will try to make it look hard. The latest obstacle from Yvonne - there would be insects on the ground!
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You don't know the prosecution route. You need to start researching.
Bamber's route is a straight forward 20 minute cycle ride on good, level terrain.
But appreciate supporters will try to make it look hard. The latest obstacle from Yvonne - there would be insects on the ground!
Well he would not go through farms, so I find the prosecution route not viable, unless you know otherwise?
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Well he would not go through farms, so I find the prosecution route not viable, unless you know otherwise?
Well he would cycle around/past Wyke farm. In darkness. The building is a long way from Pages Lane.
I did direct you to another Farm Track in reply 970 today. This avoids Wyke Farm.
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Well he would cycle around/past Wyke farm. In darkness. The building is a long way from Pages Lane.
I did direct you to another Farm Track in reply 970 today. This avoids Wyke Farm.
This is not a public right of way so it's very unlikely to be cycle friendly. It's why I have always said he walked.
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This is not a public right of way so it's very unlikely to be cycle friendly. It's why I have always said he walked.
It looks like a farm track wide enough for a tractor to me. It also leads to another farm.
So obviously can be cycled.
You didn't tell me how you know which farm tracks on Google Maps are 'public rights of way'. Final request.
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It looks like a farm track wide enough for a tractor to me. It also leads to another farm.
So obviously can be cycled.
You didn't tell me how you know which farm tracks on Google Maps are 'public rights of way'. Final request.
Public rights of way should be maintained in a condition so they can be passed on foot. this does not mean they are suitable for cycling most are NOT.
I have come across some I struggle to walk on.
Where do you find where they are? I cannot believe you are asking!
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Public rights of way should be maintained in a condition so they can be passed on foot. this does not mean they are suitable for cycling most are NOT.
I have come across some I struggle to walk on.
Where do you find where they are? I cannot believe you are asking!
Your claim that you know whether the farm tracks on Bamber's route are 'public rights of way' is dismissed.
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Your claim that you know whether the farm tracks on Bamber's route 'public rights of way' is dismissed.
You can dismiss it Adam, but I know every public right of way Bamber could have used that night. There are not many options which is why if guilty I say he went on foot.
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Adam is just a troll
Had an altercation with Bamber in 1984.
Lived on benefits attacking Bamber since.
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Adam is just a troll
Had an altercation with Bamber in 1984.
Lived on benefits attacking Bamber since.
Yes ILB it's sad to say but true.
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ILB is just a troll.
Been in prison for a long time so supports a child murderer as doesn't like the police who caught him.
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Yes ILB it's sad to say but true.
You've been dismissed again. Public rights of way, lol.
Keep digging.
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You've been dismissed again. Public rights of way, lol.
Keep digging.
You need to get out into the countryside on your bike Adam, but make sure you take a puncture repair kit with you.
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You need to get out into the countryside on your bike Adam, but make sure you take a puncture repair kit with you.
I have cycled on lots of rough terrain. It's what 8-12 year old boys do. Never got a puncture during that period.
As Killingeve said, Bamber would be very unlucky to get a puncture cycling on cycle tracks, farm tracks and Pages Lane on a short one off return journey.
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You don't know the prosecution route. You need to start researching.
Bamber's route is a straight forward 20 minute cycle ride on good, level terrain.
But appreciate supporters will try to make it look hard. The latest obstacle from Yvonne - there would be insects on the ground!
It wasn't straight forward Adam, i think he had two stiles to negotiate [Wilkinson said they were kept in good repair and easy to negotiate] but if it's two there, it's also two back again, so that would be four stiles in total and don't forget Bamber was in the Dark and Wilkinson wasn't?
Going by road cycling or by car, no stiles at all.
Sea Wall stile changed to a gate now, Picture taken Aug 7th 2022
https://photos.komoot.de/www/1c/1c2up1f0upxqv1in654ga4797w49o9fkg1-p272239815-full/18279327f42?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Path leading upto Pages Lane from the Sea wall
https://photos.komoot.de/www/c7/c707bgr0dgp3mrr51lptwlzd4ok19hth-p382654843-full/18a042884e5?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Remains of a Duck Decoy along the sea wall
https://d2exd72xrrp1s7.cloudfront.net/www/000/1k2/sk/skz4bjwirfyfiozptw3i2xv2rrp7lot-uhi4396030/0?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Sea Wall Picture taken Aug 17th 2023
https://photos.komoot.de/www/1q/1q04vi27w9tkw16vetc70x9key4ojzcqey-p382611977-full/18a03f79154?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
This Picture is from the Path going down St Peter's Church and just before reaching Joyce's chase road
https://photos.komoot.de/www/mi/mijwko665wv21wuzyrmvcr3pf4ok19rj4-p382655109-full/18a0428b5df?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
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ILB is just a troll.
Been in prison for a long time so supports a child murderer as doesn't like the police who caught him.
Don't support him. He maintains his innocence. I just have an interest in the case.
You deliberately set out to goad other posters. Fair play if you are getting a miniscule income from it. But that is in my opinion your sole purpose, and I reckon I'm not in a club of one.
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It wasn't straight forward Adam, i think he had two stiles to negotiate [Wilkinson said they were kept in good repair and easy to negotiate] but if it's two there, it's also two back again, so that would be four stiles in total and don't forget Bamber was in the Dark and Wilkinson wasn't?
Going by road cycling or by car, no stiles at all.
Sea Wall stile changed to a gate now, Picture taken Aug 7th 2022
https://photos.komoot.de/www/1c/1c2up1f0upxqv1in654ga4797w49o9fkg1-p272239815-full/18279327f42?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Path leading upto Pages Lane from the Sea wall
https://photos.komoot.de/www/c7/c707bgr0dgp3mrr51lptwlzd4ok19hth-p382654843-full/18a042884e5?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Remains of a Duck Decoy along the sea wall
https://d2exd72xrrp1s7.cloudfront.net/www/000/1k2/sk/skz4bjwirfyfiozptw3i2xv2rrp7lot-uhi4396030/0?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Sea Wall Picture taken Aug 17th 2023
https://photos.komoot.de/www/1q/1q04vi27w9tkw16vetc70x9key4ojzcqey-p382611977-full/18a03f79154?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
This Picture is from the Path going down St Peter's Church and just before reaching Joyce's chase road
https://photos.komoot.de/www/mi/mijwko665wv21wuzyrmvcr3pf4ok19rj4-p382655109-full/18a0428b5df?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
I don't believe 2 styles prevents it being straight forward
Your video & Bamber's extensive knowledge of the area confirms it would be easy.
He told Julie he thought it would take 15 minutes.
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It wasn't straight forward Adam, i think he had two stiles to negotiate [Wilkinson said they were kept in good repair and easy to negotiate] but if it's two there, it's also two back again, so that would be four stiles in total and don't forget Bamber was in the Dark and Wilkinson wasn't?
Going by road cycling or by car, no stiles at all.
Sea Wall stile changed to a gate now, Picture taken Aug 7th 2022
https://photos.komoot.de/www/1c/1c2up1f0upxqv1in654ga4797w49o9fkg1-p272239815-full/18279327f42?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Path leading upto Pages Lane from the Sea wall
https://photos.komoot.de/www/c7/c707bgr0dgp3mrr51lptwlzd4ok19hth-p382654843-full/18a042884e5?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Remains of a Duck Decoy along the sea wall
https://d2exd72xrrp1s7.cloudfront.net/www/000/1k2/sk/skz4bjwirfyfiozptw3i2xv2rrp7lot-uhi4396030/0?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
Sea Wall Picture taken Aug 17th 2023
https://photos.komoot.de/www/1q/1q04vi27w9tkw16vetc70x9key4ojzcqey-p382611977-full/18a03f79154?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
This Picture is from the Path going down St Peter's Church and just before reaching Joyce's chase road
https://photos.komoot.de/www/mi/mijwko665wv21wuzyrmvcr3pf4ok19rj4-p382655109-full/18a0428b5df?width=3072&height=2304&crop=false&q=70
For me those pictures just confirm Wilkinson's WS - 'cycled with ease'. Espescially from someone of Bamber's fitness & area knowledge.
But appreciate people have different levels of fitness & cycling experience. So will base Bamber's journey on how they would travel.
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" unbiased " statement of a DI connected to the case as gospel, the naivety :))
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There is a lot of information on The Sea Wall -
Videos.
Photos.
WS's
Vlogs.
Interviews.
Maps.
Other posters who have visited.
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Someone of Bamber's fitness and extensive area knowledge would find the journey easy.
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Rob & ILB are entitled to throw the kitchen sink at Bamber's 20 minute cycle ride. However they must provide a source for all claims.
I dismissed 3 claims from them yesterday.
I will ask twice for a source.
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Rob & ILB are entitled to throw the kitchen sink at Bamber's 20 minute cycle ride. However they must provide a source for all claims.
I dismissed 3 claims from them yesterday.
I will ask twice for a source.
You are dismissing both Bamber and RB as local men. That's fine. That's your choice.
However as I'm not a local I can't disagree with them.
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I don't believe 2 styles prevents it being straight forward
Your video & Bamber's extensive knowledge of the area confirms it would be easy.
He told Julie he thought it would take 15 minutes.
No that makes four styles in total, so he has to get off his bike, lift 20kg bike over the style and climb over the style himself and get on bike again and start cycling four times, what Wilkinson didn't take in to consideration, a Ladies bike has no cross member to assist any lift, a ladies bike doesn't have a cross member so that Ladies can put their feet to the floor and not hurt themselves between the legs, also the Ladies bike would have been heavier than his, also the ladies bike would have had a much longer wheelbase than his making it more clumsy to lift over a style and of course a ladies bike would have been much slower to ride than his.
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No that makes four styles in total, so he has to get off his bike, lift 20kg bike over the style and climb over the style himself and get on bike again and start cycling four times, what Wilkinson didn't take in to consideration, a Ladies bike has no cross member to assist any lift, a ladies bike doesn't have a cross member so that Ladies can put their feet to the floor and not hurt themselves between the legs, also the Ladies bike would have been heavier than his, also the ladies bike would have had a much longer wheelbase than his making it more clumsy to lift over a style and of course a ladies bike would have been much slower to ride than his.
Two styles there. Two back.
Styles are put on foot/cycle paths. As your photo shows.
In 1985 June's bike was perfectly adequate for the job. He's not going to buy a BMX & say it's for Julie.
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Adam talks like he's a frequent visitor.
Despite also stating he has never been there.
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Wilkinson said the styles were 'easy to negotiate'.
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Wilkinson said the styles were 'easy to negotiate'.
I know and i did put that in my 998 post, but the styles would be easier with his bike, a ladies bike has NO cross member [top tube] to lift from and it would be heavier.
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I know and i did put that in my 998 post, but the styles would be easier with his bike, a ladies bike has NO cross member [top tube] to lift from and it would be heavier.
I'm sure a 24 year old farmer could lift June's bike. He gave a 15 stone Nevill 40+ injuries!
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This is not a public right of way so it's very unlikely to be cycle friendly. It's why I have always said he walked.
Whether something is a public right of way or not does not affect its suitability to cycle. Bridleways and byways can be easy or hard to cycle on. Private roads can be easy or hard to cycle on. All depends on the maintenance in the years prior to cycling on that particular road/path or whatever.
Often footpaths can be better for a cyclist because bridleways can be churned up by horses, and byways can sometimes be totally destroyed by cars. But they are still always negotiable by bike.
Obviously it is illegal to cycle on a footpath, but that wouldn't have mattered for Bamber.
But to travel 3-4 miles from A to B on off-road terrain is easy. Even if you have to push the bike part of the way. And that would only be for short distances. And that would be rare.
Negotiating styles on footpaths with a bike is simple and relatively easy.
There are many ways to negotiate a set of styles on a bike, including throwing the bike over the styles (yes, I have done it).
Usually what I do is to lift the bike up over my side of the styles and rest the bike on the lower part on the other side, and just let the bike fall.
I've just looked at the map, and there's pretty much a footpath that goes in a straight line from Goldhanger to Pages Lane. There's some risk going through a couple of farms, but then Bamber is a risk taker, with no real sense of the consequences of his actions. There is a clump of forest nearby, and he could just walk the bike though that.
And then there is the sea wall way, which also looks easy.
I've never been bothered about how Bamber got to and from WHF, because I know there would be many ways and routes long and short between the two places, and Bamber could choose whatever he wanted to, being someone who had lived there all his life.
But looking at the route between the two places, it couldn't be easier. The two most obvious routes are both very simple to negotiate.
There are many more routes he could have taken, and there is a footpath that goes into WHF itself. There is a convoluted route back to Goldhanger, which he could have taken. But if it were me, I'd have taken the direct route and walked around the farms, or taken the sea wall route.
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Whether something is a public right of way or not does not affect its suitability to cycle. Bridleways and byways can be easy or hard to cycle on. Private roads can be easy or hard to cycle on. All depends on the maintenance in the years prior to cycling on that particular road/path or whatever.
Often footpaths can be better for a cyclist because bridleways can be churned up by horses, and byways can sometimes be totally destroyed by cars. But they are still always negotiable by bike.
Obviously it is illegal to cycle on a footpath, but that wouldn't have mattered for Bamber.
But to travel 3-4 miles from A to B on off-road terrain is easy. Even if you have to push the bike part of the way. And that would only be for short distances. And that would be rare.
Negotiating styles on footpaths with a bike is simple and relatively easy.
There are many ways to negotiate a set of styles on a bike, including throwing the bike over the styles (yes, I have done it).
Usually what I do is to lift the bike up over my side of the styles and rest the bike on the lower part on the other side, and just let the bike fall.
I've just looked at the map, and there's pretty much a footpath that goes in a straight line from Goldhanger to Pages Lane. There's some risk going through a couple of farms, but then Bamber is a risk taker, with no real sense of the consequences of his actions. There is a clump of forest nearby, and he could just walk the bike though that.
And then there is the sea wall way, which also looks easy.
I've never been bothered about how Bamber got to and from WHF, because I know there would be many ways and routes long and short between the two places, and Bamber could choose whatever he wanted to, being someone who had lived there all his life.
But looking at the route between the two places, it couldn't be easier. The two most obvious routes are both very simple to negotiate.
There are many more routes he could have taken, and there is a footpath that goes into WHF itself. There is a convoluted route back to Goldhanger, which he could have taken. But if it were me, I'd have taken the direct route and walked around the farms, or taken the sea wall route.
You don't mind possibly damaging your wheels, pedals, spokes and scratching your frame then? Just throw the bike over and hope for the best.
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Whether something is a public right of way or not does not affect its suitability to cycle. Bridleways and byways can be easy or hard to cycle on. Private roads can be easy or hard to cycle on. All depends on the maintenance in the years prior to cycling on that particular road/path or whatever.
Often footpaths can be better for a cyclist because bridleways can be churned up by horses, and byways can sometimes be totally destroyed by cars. But they are still always negotiable by bike.
Obviously it is illegal to cycle on a footpath, but that wouldn't have mattered for Bamber.
But to travel 3-4 miles from A to B on off-road terrain is easy. Even if you have to push the bike part of the way. And that would only be for short distances. And that would be rare.
Negotiating styles on footpaths with a bike is simple and relatively easy.
There are many ways to negotiate a set of styles on a bike, including throwing the bike over the styles (yes, I have done it).
Usually what I do is to lift the bike up over my side of the styles and rest the bike on the lower part on the other side, and just let the bike fall.
I've just looked at the map, and there's pretty much a footpath that goes in a straight line from Goldhanger to Pages Lane. There's some risk going through a couple of farms, but then Bamber is a risk taker, with no real sense of the consequences of his actions. There is a clump of forest nearby, and he could just walk the bike though that.
And then there is the sea wall way, which also looks easy.
I've never been bothered about how Bamber got to and from WHF, because I know there would be many ways and routes long and short between the two places, and Bamber could choose whatever he wanted to, being someone who had lived there all his life.
But looking at the route between the two places, it couldn't be easier. The two most obvious routes are both very simple to negotiate.
There are many more routes he could have taken, and there is a footpath that goes into WHF itself. There is a convoluted route back to Goldhanger, which he could have taken. But if it were me, I'd have taken the direct route and walked around the farms, or taken the sea wall route.
That straight line is the prosecution route. The property you refer to is Wyke Farm.
There is another farm track before this one which leads onto Pages Lane via a right turn. This also looks easy to cycle & avoids Wyke Farm.
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You don't mind possibly damaging your wheels, pedals, spokes and scratching your frame then? Just throw the bike over and hope for the best.
No, I don't care much about my bikes. I cycle all the time, but I'm not a lycra clad cyclist. I poodle along country lanes, and cycle tour. When a bike breaks down I'll throw it away and buy a new one. My current bike is 10 years old and cost 167 pounds in Halfords in a sale. I always buy the cheapest bike, then it doesn't matter if it gets damaged, scratched or stolen.
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The style in Hardy Boy's photo looks just over waist height.
I am sure Bamber could lift June's bike that high.
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The style in Hardy Boy's photo looks just over waist height.
I am sure Bamber could lift June's bike that high.
Im not saying he can’t Adam, going by road he doesn’t have these obstacles there and back, the photo’s are recent so it could have been different in 85? Personally at that time I would have gone with CALS option by road, undercover of Darkness, but what I do know, lifting my wife’s Victoria Pendleton over a style took two of us compared to my 10.4kg Boardman bike and I certainly wouldn’t be throwing it over that is for sure.
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Im not saying he can’t Adam, going by road he doesn’t have these obstacles there and back, the photo’s are recent so it could have been different in 85? Personally at that time I would have gone with CALS option by road, undercover of Darkness, but what I do know, lifting my wife’s Victoria Pendleton over a style took two of us compared to my 10.4kg Boardman bike and I certainly wouldn’t be throwing it over that is for sure.
I agree he could lift June's bike over a waist high style.
A style would not deter me if wanting to cycle a route that avoided the main roads. Which was the prosecution case.
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Rob & ILB are entitled to throw the kitchen sink at Bamber's 20 minute cycle ride. However they must provide a source for all claims.
I dismissed 3 claims from them yesterday.
I will ask twice for a source.
How about we meet Adam at night on similar conditions to what JB had? you do the cycle ride in darkness and you have to meet someone else at pages lane to confirm you have not cheated and do the return trip back to me within 40 minutes?
You can walk the route in daylight so you know every inch of the route, shall we have a friendly bet?
If the bike come back covered in crap you also fail.
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Adams one source used night vision goggles.
The author then later took the article down
Not surprised.
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How about we meet Adam at night on similar conditions to what JB had? you do the cycle ride in darkness and you have to meet someone else at pages lane to confirm you have not cheated and do the return trip back to me within 40 minutes?
You can walk the route in daylight so you know every inch of the route, shall we have a friendly bet?
If the bike come back covered in crap you also fail.
You and ILB are entitled to throw the kitchen sink at an easy 20 minute cycle ride.
But you must provide a source on any claims. Preferably without a request from me.
Don't just make up things as they will only get dismissed.
ILB also needs to stop denying things that are online.
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Hardy Boy posted what he believed was an obstacle yesterday - Bamber had to cycle on foot/cycle paths and lift a bike over 2 waist high styles.
The difference here is he backed up this with photos.
I still disagree that Bamber cycling on foot/cycle paths & having to lift June's bike waist height would deter him cycling the prosecution route.
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Yvonne said insects being on Bamber's route would be an obstacle.
She didn't supply a source however it is common knowledge that insects would be on the ground.
I don't believe insects on the ground would deter Bamber from cycling the prosecution route.
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How about we meet Adam at night on similar conditions to what JB had? you do the cycle ride in darkness and you have to meet someone else at pages lane to confirm you have not cheated and do the return trip back to me within 40 minutes?
You can walk the route in daylight so you know every inch of the route, shall we have a friendly bet?
If the bike come back covered in crap you also fail.
The thing is that on the night of the murders Jeremy Bamber would have been highly motivated.
He would have had plenty of energy to cycle along a bumpy off road track and deal with any problems as they arose.
You can't recreate that 40 years later with different people, and expect them to behave in exactly the same way.
And it will never change the reality.
Trying to win an argument in this way is just a very childish thing to do, and changes nothing.
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The thing is that on the night of the murders Jeremy Bamber would have been highly motivated.
He would have had plenty of energy to cycle along a bumpy off road track and deal with any problems as they arose.
You can't recreate that 40 years later with different people, and expect them to behave in exactly the same way.
And it will never change the reality.
Trying to win an argument in this way is just a very childish thing to do, and changes nothing.
Killingeve just come out with it and say you have an agenda against Bamber.
I understand guilters but you make Adam look like a Bamber fanboy
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Trying to win an argument in this way is just a very childish thing to do, and changes nothing.
Who on the forum is trying to win an argument ?
We all just have a vivid interest in the case. None of this goes to a legal setting. I'm sure all members are aware of the fact.
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The thing is that on the night of the murders Jeremy Bamber would have been highly motivated.
He would have had plenty of energy to cycle along a bumpy off road track and deal with any problems as they arose.
You can't recreate that 40 years later with different people, and expect them to behave in exactly the same way.
And it will never change the reality.
Trying to win an argument in this way is just a very childish thing to do, and changes nothing.
It's not childish, if someone cannot travel the route under no pressure in the time they claim Bamber did it in then it's a problem that should have been addressed at trail. It's not just the cycle ride it's everything else he had to do.
Every time Bamber hears something he would have to dismount and duck down etc. He would have been under severe stress and pressure.
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Yvonne said insects being on Bamber's route would be an obstacle.
She didn't supply a source however it is common knowledge that insects would be on the ground.
I don't believe insects on the ground would deter Bamber from cycling the prosecution route.
I have come back from walks smothered in stuff Adam, you have never been on a walk apart from going to the chippy?
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The thing is that on the night of the murders Jeremy Bamber would have been highly motivated.
He would have had plenty of energy to cycle along a bumpy off road track and deal with any problems as they arose.
You can't recreate that 40 years later with different people, and expect them to behave in exactly the same way.
And it will never change the reality.
Trying to win an argument in this way is just a very childish thing to do, and changes nothing.
It is true that Bamber would be highly motivated.
That is why I do not believe if some of The Sea Wall or Farm Tracks were uneven, that would deter him.
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I have come back from walks smothered in stuff Adam, you have never been on a walk apart from going to the chippy?
Bamber wasn't walking.
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It's not childish, if someone cannot travel the route under no pressure in the time they claim Bamber did it in then it's a problem that should have been addressed at trail. It's not just the cycle ride it's everything else he had to do.
Every time Bamber hears something he would have to dismount and duck down etc. He would have been under severe stress and pressure.
What would he hear Worzel Gummidge?
Bamber was under no time constraints. There or back.
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What would he hear Worzel Gummidge?
Bamber was under no time constraints. There or back.
Then stop going on about the 20 minutes if it does not matter, the problem is time does matter Adam ;)
We all know Bamber thought calls could be traced, which is why you have him on a cycle at night with no lights. If time was not important you would say he went on foot.
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Then stop going on about the 20 minutes if it does not matter, the problem is time does matter Adam ;)
We all know Bamber thought calls could be traced, which is why you have him on a cycle at night with no lights. If time was not important you would say he went on foot.
How do you know what Bamber thought.
I have given the cycle ride a generous 20 minutes. Although he told Julie he thought it would take 15 minutes.
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How do you know what Bamber thought.
I have given the cycle ride a generous 20 minutes. Although he told Julie he thought it would take 15 minutes.
If Julie knew something damming known only to Bamber I would be very interested, but she knows nothing that could not be learned from general over hearing and chit chat.
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It is true that Bamber would be highly motivated.
That is why I do not believe if some of The Sea Wall or Farm Tracks were uneven, that would deter him.
I spend as much spare time as I can, cycling around countrylanes and bridleways and byways. I carry my bike over styles, fences and god knows what dozens of times a year.
This whole thing is a non issue.
Bamber had 3 valid choices...
Drive, walk, bike.
Walking would take the longest time, so probably not that.
Driving was the least discreet, so probably not that.
Cycling was reasonably inconspicuous, and relatively quick. And you can always get off and walk. So probably that.
He could of used any of the above three and not have been seen, but he probably used a bike.
Nothing else could ever prove or disprove any of that.
He admits to taking his mothers bike to Goldhanger a few days before the murders. So the bike scenario is plausible.
Hanging out with an angry bloke from an internet forum under the cover of darkness is not something I'd recommend.
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If Julie knew something damming known only to Bamber I would be very interested, but she knows nothing that could not be learned from general over hearing and chit chat.
Julie knew 19 things which she would not have read in the newspapers. Thread already created.
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On our way back from a wedding, we decided to take the country route. We stopped off at Heybridge for coffee on the sea wall. The first thing I saw, in very large letters, was "NO CYCLING"!!! Further on we stopped off at Osea Leisure. From the single field, it's expanded beyond belief to a place of some renown. Next stop was Goldhanger. From the exit at Head Street to the next exit at Church Street, took approximately one and a half minutes. From the Church St exit to the junction with Tollesbury Rd, took approximately five minutes, during which time we had to pause for traffic lights and were overtaken by three vehicles. My partner said he frequently cycled that stretch of the road from D'Arcy to Goldhanger where there was a beach. This was, however, in the 1940s.
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I spend as much spare time as I can, cycling around countrylanes and bridleways and byways. I carry my bike over styles, fences and god knows what dozens of times a year.
This whole thing is a non issue.
Bamber had 3 valid choices...
Drive, walk, bike.
Walking would take the longest time, so probably not that.
Driving was the least discreet, so probably not that.
Cycling was reasonably inconspicuous, and relatively quick. And you can always get off and walk. So probably that.
He could of used any of the above three and not have been seen, but he probably used a bike.
Nothing else could ever prove or disprove any of that.
He admits to taking his mothers bike to Goldhanger a few days before the murders. So the bike scenario is plausible.
Hanging out with an angry bloke from an internet forum under the cover of darkness is not something I'd recommend.
Really had 5 options -
Cycle the prosecution route - The Sea Wall, Farm track, Pages Lane.
Cycle the prosecution route. Turn off The Sea Wall to Pages Lane on the earlier farm track.
Cycle via Brook House Farm.
Drive.
Walk.
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Julie testified he planned to cycle The Sea Wall. However would not know what farm track he used to get onto Pages Lane.
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Really had 5 options -
Cycle the prosecution route - The Sea Wall, Farm track, Pages Lane.
Cycle the prosecution route. Turn off The Sea Wall to Pages Lane on the earlier farm track.
Cycle via Brook House Farm.
Drive.
Walk.
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Julie testified he planned to cycle The Sea Wall. However would not know what farm track he used to get onto Pages Lane.
If he cycles via Brook House Farm then he has to cycle along Maldon Road is that correct?
The earlier track would take him through Hyde Farm?
You were posting that he could keep well clear of properties?
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Madness cycling through other farms
Dogs barking, cattle, spotlights, possible security cameras.
Awaking the farm occupants
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If he cycles via Brook House Farm then he has to cycle along Maldon Road is that correct?
The earlier track would take him through Hyde Farm?
You were posting that he could keep well clear of properties?
I know he would he cycle up Head Street, Church Street & Maldon Road.
There is no street lighting on those roads and a bike is silent. It is also terrain built for cars so perfect for a bike. It is the quickest cycling route.
Officially it is an option although the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall.
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Obviously the darkness dea'th, night fishermen, etc put the sea wall theory to bed.
But an interesting theory to discuss.
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Think it was wise of GG to pull down his blog when he knew it was subject to scrutiny. Completely biased aided by night vision goggles!
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Obviously the darkness dea'th, night fishermen, etc put the sea wall theory to bed.
But an interesting theory to discuss.
BD was referring to the Osea Leisure Park which was 5 miles away.
The 3 videos and photos show no sea, let alone fishermen. And that is in the day time.
Please be realistic.
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BD was referring to the Osea Leisure Park which was 5 miles away.
The 3 videos and photos show no sea, let alone fishermen. And that is in the day time.
Please be realistic.
You do realise the event happened in 1985? Which de'ath is referencing, the sea wall of the time. Different times the 80s
De'ath knew Bambers route and routinely referenced it.
She was then attacked for this because guilters claimed she is lying because she had a caravan deal fall through with the relatives some years after the massacre.
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I know he would he cycle up Head Street, Church Street & Maldon Road.
There is no street lighting on those roads and a bike is silent. It is also terrain built for cars so perfect for a bike. It is the quickest cycling route.
Officially it is an option although the prosecution say he cycled The Sea Wall.
He wouldn't cycle up Head St AND Church St. One doesn't lead onto the other. They're independent of each other, although both exit onto the Maldon Rd.
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BD was referring to the Osea Leisure Park which was 5 miles away.
The 3 videos and photos show no sea, let alone fishermen. And that is in the day time.
Please be realistic.
You be realistic.
Bamber is supposed to have made the journey in the early hours of the morning on darkness.
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He wouldn't cycle up Head St AND Church St. One doesn't lead onto the other. They're independent of each other, although both exit onto the Maldon Rd.
Please don't argue with Adam he is an expert of the vicinity in question. Despite also saying he has never been there in his life.
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I don't agree a silent bike would result in dogs waking and barking. If cycling the Brook House Farm route.
However there would be a possibility of someone being outside on Head or Church Street.
As Killingeve said, Bamber would be highly motivated so would cycle The Sea Wall. Even though Yvonne said there would be insects on the ground.
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He wouldn't cycle up Head St AND Church St. One doesn't lead onto the other. They're independent of each other, although both exit onto the Maldon Rd.
He would cycle up Head Streer onto Church Street. Then cycle up Church Street onto Maldon Road.
Please refer to Google Maps if you have forgotten the route.
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I don't agree a silent bike would result in dogs waking and barking. If cycling the Brook House Farm route.
However there would be a possibility of someone being outside on Head or Church Street.
As Killingeve said, Bamber would be highly motivated so would cycle The Sea Wall. Even though Yvonne said there would be insects on the ground.
Very risky cycling through three farms with potential security cameras and other hazards. Going through private property.
Bamber being known by the occupants.
Move on.
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On the totality of it all though the sea wall is too much fucking about in laymens terms.
Much easier to just jump in his brand new astra, in and out.
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You be realistic.
Bamber is supposed to have made the journey in the early hours of the morning on darkness.
People can see & get around in outside darkness. In areas they know.
Both Hardy Boy, Killingeve, RB, GG have said so.
If you would not able to leave your front door I recommend you see a specialist.
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I drove to pick my partner up from a resturaunt close to my village the other evening it was around 8pm. It was still light. Completely deserted. Nobody would have seen me and this is 2024 in Sheffield !
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People can see & get around in outside darkness. In areas they know.
Both Hardy Boy, Killingeve, RB, GG have said so.
If you would not able to leave your front door I recommend you see a specialist.
Aided by street lighting yes. Not a pitch black sea wall.
Can you see in a power cut inside your house ?
GG took his blog down. No doubt after being subject to scrutiny.
Don't recall RB saying it was lit. Ditto hardy who posted a video of a day time cycle ride.
Killingeve is an ardent anti Bamber. Making you look like a Bamber fan boy.
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On the totality of it all though the sea wall is too much fucking about in laymens terms.
Much easier to just jump in his brand new astra, in and out.
People have different approaches to committing a crime worth over 500k.
You would not want to make any effort. You even want Nevill to leave the front door open for you. If you get caught, so be it.
Others would make an effort. As Killingeve said Bamber would be highly motivated & prepared to cycle for 20 minutes.
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People have different approaches to committing a crime worth over 500k.
You would not want to make any effort. You even want Nevill to leave the front door open for you. If you get caught, so be it.
Others would make an effort. As Killingeve said Bamber would be highly motivated & prepared to cycle for 20 minutes.
Jumping in a car in a tranquil Enid blyton style village in 1985 to make a 16 minute round trip is not " a massive risk"
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Aided by street lighting yes. Not a pitch black sea wall.
Can you see in a power cut inside your house ?
GG took his blog down. No doubt after being subject to scrutiny.
Don't recall RB saying it was lit. Ditto hardy who posted a video of a day time cycle ride.
Killingeve is an ardent anti Bamber. Making you look like a Bamber fan boy.
You need to see an eye specialist.
There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
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You need to see an eye specialist.
There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
56 in July, never wore glasses.
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Very risky cycling through three farms with potential security cameras and other hazards. Going through private property.
Bamber being known by the occupants.
Move on.
Agree the Brook House Farm route is more risky.
The Sea Wall route he passes no properties. Providing he makes & cycles down the farm track which is before the prosecutions.
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56 in July, never wore glasses.
There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
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There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
With great difficult cycling and walking. The route to pages lane is rural mixed with houses but mostly countryside.
People who are driving use their car headlamps.
Nice try.
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With great difficult cycling and walking. The route to pages lane is rural mixed with houses but mostly countryside.
People who are driving use their car headlamps.
Nice try.
There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
Final request.
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Agree the Brook House Farm route is more risky.
The Sea Wall route he passes no properties. Providing he makes & cycles down the farm track which is before the prosecutions.
I am on about the sea wall
He goes through three farms.
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He would cycle up Head Streer onto Church Street. Then cycle up Church Street onto Maldon Road.
Please refer to Google Maps if you have forgotten the route.
Was there just a matter of hours ago, Adam. Technically, it wouldn't be possible for him to cycle UP both roads. Bourtree is as close as makes little difference to the junction with Fish St/Church St -hardly worth getting on a bike for- but having gone UP it, he'd have to turn left to cycle DOWN Church St towards Maldon Rd.
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There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
Final request.
Please elaborate do you mean by walking or cycling or driving ?
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Was there just a matter of hours ago, Adam. Technically, it wouldn't be possible for him to cycle UP both roads. Bourtree is as close as makes little difference to the junction with Fish St/Church St -hardly worth getting on a bike for- but having gone UP it, he'd have to turn left to cycle DOWN Church St towards Maldon Rd.
Again Adam has intimate knowledge of the area.
Despite never been there.
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Please elaborate do you mean by walking or cycling or driving ?
Walking and cycling.
Not just in Goldhanger. But all country villages that have no street lighting.
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Was there just a matter of hours ago, Adam. Technically, it wouldn't be possible for him to cycle UP both roads. Bourtree is as close as makes little difference to the junction with Fish St/Church St -hardly worth getting on a bike for- but having gone UP it, he'd have to turn left to cycle DOWN Church St towards Maldon Rd.
As Google Maps shows. He would cycle up Head Street. Then turn when arriving at Church Street.
Church Street leads onto Maldon Road.
If you have forgotten the route since your visit hours ago, please refer to Google Maps Satellite.
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As Google Maps shows. He would cycle up Head Street. Then turn when arriving at Church Street.
Church Street leads onto Maldon Road.
If you have forgotten the route since your visit hours ago, please refer to Google Maps Satellite.
Oh! That's exactly what I said! I'm so glad you agree.
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Oh! That's exactly what I said! I'm so glad you agree.
Be impossible to cycle up Head/Church Street simultaneously.
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For ILB -
'A recent CPRE survey revealed that 96% of Norfolk villages that currently do not have street lights want to remain unlit.'
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For ILB -
'A recent CPRE survey revealed that 96% of Norfolk villages that currently do not have street lights want to remain unlit.'
Lovely place, iv'e cycled around the village's of Norfolk, not in the Dark though ;D ;D ;D
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Was there just a matter of hours ago, Adam. Technically, it wouldn't be possible for him to cycle UP both roads. Bourtree is as close as makes little difference to the junction with Fish St/Church St -hardly worth getting on a bike for- but having gone UP it, he'd have to turn left to cycle DOWN Church St towards Maldon Rd.
Be impossible to cycle up Head/Church Street simultaneously.
Well done! 'S'actly what I said! Good that you agree.
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It gets dark at 4pm in the winter.
Wonder how thousands/millions of people walk or cycle around in the villages of England with no artificial lighting.
ILB will enlighten.
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For ILB -
So it’s quite remarkable that one place where you’ll find barely any lights is the nearby Essex village of Theydon Bois, which has an Underground station meaning it’s only a short trip from the capital’s boundaries.
According to MyLondon, the villagers have consistently voted against the installation of such lighting for decades, out of fear that it would ruin the ambience of the place as well as adding to their council tax bill.
This is very strange and honestly you don’t even notice it at first, it’s something you don’t even think about during the day - however at night time you’ll notice it’s pitch black basically everywhere.
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Even people in London get around without artificial lighting.
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ILB refused to say whether he could walk/cycle around where he lived without artificial lighting.
I have always said I could travel for miles where I live without artificial lighting
Seems thousands/millions of people agree with me.
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For ILB -
'A recent CPRE survey revealed that 96% of Norfolk villages that currently do not have street lights want to remain unlit.'
The event we are discussing is in Essex not Norfolk.
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The event we are discussing is in Essex not Norfolk.
There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
Final request.
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You have not answered.
Therefore your claim that Bamber could not have cycled between where he lived and worked because 'it was dark outside' has been dismissed.
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There is no street lighting on Fish, Head & Church Street. How do people get around in the dark?
Final request.
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You have not answered.
Therefore your claim that Bamber could not have cycled between where he lived and worked because 'it was dark outside' has been dismissed.
By walking and cycling in the dark. These are residential streets. There will be lights on from properties that cause some illumination.
You know this
Having lived in cities if not all my life I find it difficult to differentiate the difference.
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Bambers main road cycle route takes him down a unlit long country road with no bicycle light no illumination.
He may have been hit by a car.
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By walking and cycling in the dark. These are residential streets. There will be lights on from properties that cause some illumination.
You know this
Your claim is dismissed.
Next.
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Your claim is dismissed.
Next.
Nothing is dismissed.
You've never put anything forward what I can't counter and long will it continue.
You can't goad an ex criminal Adam. It used to be my bread and butter ^-^
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Dismissing ILB's & Robs claims like there is no tomorrow. Four in the last 2 days.
Steep inclines - no source.
Cycling across fields - no source.
Rights of way - no source.
Villages having no street lighting - no answer
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But they will keep digging regarding an easy 20 minute cycle journey.
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I can't dismiss Hardy Boys and Yvonne's obstacles. Hardy Boy produced photos & it is common knowledge that insects would be on the ground.
However I can disagree that waist high styles, foot/cycle tracks and insects would deter a highly motivated Bamber.
ILB & Rob don't even provide sources or answers. So there claims can be dismissed.
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Your south London wide boy patter shit will not wash with me pal. I lived there a long time.
How can you claim to be an expert on the sea wall when you've never been there.
Yet you dismiss de'ath who had intimate knowledge.
As well as dismissing RB and Bamber, both integral parts of the case we are all discussing!
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Can remember Adam calling both Julie and Ainsley liars over the brook house farm track!
And I'm on the fence!
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Agree the Brook House Farm route is more risky.
The Sea Wall route he passes no properties. Providing he makes & cycles down the farm track which is before the prosecutions.
Well if he has to cycle along Maldon road I think we can rule this route out? At those times of day a cyclist would be much more conspicuous than a car. As ILB says no one would pay much attention to a car but they would a bike.
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Well if he has to cycle along Maldon road I think we can rule this route out? At those times of day a cyclist would be much more conspicuous than a car. As ILB says no one would pay much attention to a car but they would a bike.
Precisely Rob.
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Can remember Adam calling both Julie and Ainsley liars over the brook house farm track!
And I'm on the fence!
Julie testified he cycled The Sea Wall.
I know nothing about Ainsley's view on Bamber's cycle ride.
The prosecution case since 1985 is that he cycled The Sea Wall route.
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Dismissing ILB's & Robs claims like there is no tomorrow. Four in the last 2 days.
Steep inclines - no source.
Cycling across fields - no source.
Rights of way - no source.
Villages having no street lighting - no answer
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But they will keep digging regarding an easy 20 minute cycle journey.
Please Adam stop embarrassing yourself!
A teddy bear knows where to look to find public rights of way!
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Well if he has to cycle along Maldon road I think we can rule this route out? At those times of day a cyclist would be much more conspicuous than a car. As ILB says no one would pay much attention to a car but they would a bike.
There would be no cars on Maldon Road at 2am. Hardly any during the day by the look of things.
Bamber could hide if he saw/heard a car in the distance.
But agree the prosecution are right to say he cycled The Sea Wall. Your view that he couldn't cycle in outside darkness has been dismissed. By thousands/millions of people.
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Please Adam stop embarrassing yourself!
A teddy bear knows where to look to find public rights of way!
You are well aware - 2 requests for a source. Then dismissal.
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Julie testified he cycled The Sea Wall.
I know nothing about Ainsley's view on Bamber's cycle ride.
The prosecution case since 1985 is that he cycled The Sea Wall route.
We had a in-depth discussion on the issue on this forum a few months ago.
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In fairness I did agree the brook house farm track been a decent enough route.
Until I found out the route personally by looking into it.
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We had a in-depth discussion on the issue on this forum a few months ago.
Julie testified he cycled The Sea Wall.
I know nothing about Ainsley's view on Bamber's cycle ride.
The prosecution case since 1985 is that he cycled The Sea Wall route.
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In fairness I did agree the brook house farm track been a decent enough route.
Until I found out the route personally by looking into it.
It is the same route he would drive & drove to work every day.
So for you, the perfect cycle ride.
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You are well aware - 2 requests for a source. Then dismissal.
You portray yourself as the greatest sleuth in the modern era Adam but you don't know where to look for public rights of way!
Your claim is dismissed!
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You portray yourself as the greatest sleuth in the modern era Adam but you don't know where to look for public rights of way!
Your claim is dismissed!
You need to provide sources after making a statement. Preferably prior to me asking.
Don't just make up things & hope to blag your way out of it.
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You need to provide sources after making a statement. Preferably prior to me asking.
Don't just make up things & hope to blag your way out of it.
Sorry Adam public rights of way are shown on maps. Now which ones?
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It is the same route he would drive & drove to work every day.
So for you, the perfect cycle ride.
A car has headlights.
The bike doesn't
A lot of route is rural. And we are talking 1985.
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To be fair Guest29835, Lookout & Nugs used to make statements with no source.
Lookout would say 'find it yourself' after a request.
Nugs would stonewall then get upset if pressurised.
Guest29835 would either stonewall, make a joke or say 'it is on the forum somewhere'.
Appreciate supporters are very passionate but have not got much to work with.
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You portray yourself as the greatest sleuth in the modern era Adam but you don't know where to look for public rights of way!
Your claim is dismissed!
Has an agenda against Bamber. Which is fair enough. But shouldn't colour a view.
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A car has headlights.
The bike doesn't
A lot of route is rural. And we are talking 1985.
Head Street, Church Street & Maldon Road is tarmac for cars. So perfect for bikes.
Your claim about outside darkness has been dismissed today.
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To be fair Guest29835, Lookout & Nugs used to make statements with no source.
Lookout would say 'find it yourself' after a request.
Nugs would stonewall then get upset if pressurised.
Guest29835 would either stonewall, make a joke or say 'it is on the forum somewhere'.
Appreciate supporters are very passionate but have not got much to work with.
I have plenty of documents in my possession.
I have often offered to share them with you personally and post them to the forum.
Research is a much as an individual thing as collective. I have provided sources on many occassions. You dismiss them.
I can't change that that's your choice.
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Head Street, Church Street & Maldon Road is tarmac for cars. So perfect for bikes.
Your claim about outside darkness has been dismissed today.
Again it's only you saying that on planet Adam.
Reality however :))
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Apparently de'ath living in Basildon means she doesn't know the route from Goldhanger to Darcy :))
On planet Adam
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Again it's only you saying that on planet Adam.
Reality however :))
I provided sources of villages with no artificial lighting.
Can you walk/cycle about where you live without artificial lighting?
Final time I will ask this.
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I have plenty of documents in my possession.
I have often offered to share them with you personally and post them to the forum.
Research is a much as an individual thing as collective. I have provided sources on many occassions. You dismiss them.
I can't change that that's your choice.
You do post documents which are useful.
On the Sea Wall issue you have not provided sources/answers on -
Steep inclines.
Cycling across fields.
How thousands/millions of people walk/cycle around without artificial lighting.
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Anyone would have no choice but to dismiss your claims.
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I provided sources of villages with no artificial lighting.
Can you walk/cycle about where you live without artificial lighting?
Final time I will ask this.
It's a legal requirement for cycles to have lights at night Adam, please don't ask for a source it's the law.
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I provided sources of villages with no artificial lighting.
Can you walk/cycle about where you live without artificial lighting?
Final time I will ask this.
No because they have streetlights that have been put there by the council and if I remove them I will end up in court. I can't change where I live.
That's not an evasive answer. It's common sense. I live in Sheffield. You will agree of course living in London.
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Again it's only you saying that on planet Adam.
Reality however :))
Are you saying Head Street, Church Street & Maldon Road is not tarmac?
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Are you saying Head Street, Church Street & Maldon Road is not tarmac?
What has this got to do with visibility ?
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No because they have streetlights that have been put there by the council and if I remove them I will end up in court. I can't change where I live.
That's not an evasive answer. It's common sense. I live in Sheffield. You will agree of course living in London.
Your claim that Bamber couldn't cycle in outside darkness has been dismissed - X 2.
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What has this got to do with visibility ?
So you agree it was perfect terrain for cycling.
But believe only Bamber couldn't cycle in outside darkness where he lived & worked. Compared to thousands/millions of other people who lived in Goldhanger & other villages.
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So you agree it was perfect terrain for cycling.
But believe only Bamber couldn't cycle in outside darkness where he lived & worked. Compared to thousands/millions of other people who lived in Goldhanger & other villages.
Are you familiar with the road route. I am sure you are.
Do you accept that the long main road is rural.
Cycling that 2am, when surrounded by fields and not natural lighting is hard enough.
Also running the risk of getting hit by a car.
Accept of course the traffic would be next to none at that hour.
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Snow's Bamber cycling obstacle is the most convincing - he may get a sore bottom.
Bamber did have a bottom and the bike did have a seat.
However he would be highly motivated for over 500k.
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Your claim that Bamber couldn't cycle in outside darkness has been dismissed - X 2.
No it hasn't.
What have I failed to answer ?
You are asking me a question and I previously answered.
Please stop being deceptive and putting a spin on things.
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Snow's Bamber cycling obstacle is the most convincing - he may get a sore bottom.
Bamber did have a bottom and the bike did have a seat.
However he would be highly motivated for over 500k.
Agree 500k is tempting. However I don't believe from a gulity stand point it was the lone factor in his choice if he did it.
But we are discussing the transport aspect of the case.
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Are you familiar with the road route. I am sure you are.
Do you accept that the long main road is rural.
Cycling that 2am, when surrounded by fields and not natural lighting is hard enough.
Also running the risk of getting hit by a car.
Accept of course the traffic would be next to none at that hour.
Hit by a car?
Where did that car on Maldon Road suddenly appear from? One minute it was 150 yards away, the next it's hitting me.
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Shame Bamber didn't have a home countries Johnnie Cochran.
" If he can't shoot the route, he didn't kill them for the loot"
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Hit by a car?
Where did that car on Maldon Road suddenly appear from? One minute it was 150 yards away, the next it's hitting me.
I didn't want to do this but I suppose you leave me no choice.
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That's tollsebury road. Imagine 3am 7.8.85 where's the lighting Adam.
Please don't say the sky.
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If you agree he " could cycle visibility wise on that road " I will have dismiss you.
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No bike light no street lighting no other artificial lighting.
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That's tollsebury road. Imagine 3am 7.8.85 where's the lighting Adam.
Please don't say the sky.
Oi oi. ILB is coming up with photos.
Yes must be hard cycling in a straight line in an area you know.
Wonder why there is no street lighting. Did no one cycle after 4pm in the winter?
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ILB shouldn't be disputing the cycling in the dark.
I have given sources that thousands/millions of people travel around with no artificial lighting. And they prefer it that way!
But it's been his big argument for years, so won't accept defeat.
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I can provide common sense and reality.
No artificial lighting
No bike light
No visible lighting
Ladies bike at 2am.
Common sense.
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ILB shouldn't be disputing the cycling in the dark.
I have given sources that thousands/millions of people travel around with no artificial lighting. And they prefer it that way!
But it's been his big argument for years, so won't accept defeat.
Have you ?
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I can provide common sense and reality.
No artificial lighting
No bike light
No visible lighting
Ladies bike at 2am.
Common sense.
Me, the prosecution & defence disagree with you.
Even Bamber hasn't included it in one of his multiple submissions.
Wonder how people travel around in third world countries at night. Just a thought.
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If you include third world countries that is certainly going into millions without artificial lighting at night.
But Bamber couldn't cycle for 20 minutes between where he lived and worked. On good terrain.
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If you include third world countries that is certainly going into millions without artificial lighting at night.
But Bamber couldn't cycle for 20 minutes between where he lived and worked. On good terrain.
For 500k+!
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Me, the prosecution & defence disagree with you.
Even Bamber hasn't included it in one of his multiple submissions.
Wonder how people travel around in third world countries at night. Just a thought.
Why would Bamber include transport?
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For 500k+!
Just jump in the car as me and Zoso and hardy believe.
Not piss around on cycle with no visibility!
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Adam is now drawing a link between zaire and Bamber !
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Why would Bamber include transport?
Because he had a vision problem. Unlike the rest of Goldhanger he couldn't walk or cycle outside his cottage after 4pm in winter.
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Adam is now drawing a link between zaire and Bamber !
Just wondering why millions of people worldwide can travel around where they live at night without artifcial lighting, on foot or bike. But Bamber couldn't.
For 500k+!
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Then of course you can go back centuries before artificial lighting existed.
Did everyone go to bed at 4pm in winter?
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Please provide your million of sources.
In the event so far none is provided.
Not long Jeremy my old mucker!
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Please provide your million of sources.
In the event so far none is provided.
Not long Jeremy my old mucker!
Not going to provide a million sources.
I said millions of people have no artificial lighting where they live. In England and abroad.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/theydon-bois-the-town-with-no-street-lights-60066/%23:~:text%3DTheydon%2520Bois%252C%2520on%2520the%2520edge,absence%2520of%2520any%2520street%2520lighting.&ved=2ahUKEwjMotGKw8KFAxUKQ0EAHXR3DT4QFnoECA0QBQ&usg=AOvVaw2vVxF-JdnjnNdMlW268S7_
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cprenorfolk.org.uk/stories/lets-keep-our-villages-in-the-dark/&ved=2ahUKEwiu09yYw8KFAxXZZ0EAHbFmBBkQFnoECCgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0SSrXlyPiMOMTof4b_Uo4l
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.aol.co.uk/living/2019/12/09/britains-darkest-village-with-no-street-lights-becomes-illumina/&ved=2ahUKEwigkdS-w8KFAxUFV0EAHWseA7sQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1atIg38z0J0pd7fWZxiFu2
Google Maps 3D Goldhanger.
-
Cannot draw comparisons with the events in the sources you have posted to the circumstances of Jeremy Bamber in what is alleged he did in tollshunt darcy Essex August 7th 1985.
You know this.
-
Seems that Bamber is the only person in Goldhanger that couldn't walk to it's pub in darkness.
And the only non blind person in human history who could not travel in outside darkness.
-
Cannot draw comparisons with the events in the sources you have posted to the circumstances of Jeremy Bamber in what is alleged he did in tollshunt darcy Essex August 7th 1985.
You know this.
Agree. Bamber would also be highly motivated.
For 500k+.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/life-surreys-most-demand-friendly-26554423.amp&ved=2ahUKEwi52u_7xsKFAxU0QUEAHXKnBDs4ChAWegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw16jWLrY5bKmmcV4lapaceZ
That is 5 sources. ILB did ask.
That is more than the zero I got from ILB & Rob this week. On multiple issues.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/life-surreys-most-demand-friendly-26554423.amp&ved=2ahUKEwi52u_7xsKFAxU0QUEAHXKnBDs4ChAWegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw16jWLrY5bKmmcV4lapaceZ
That is 5 sources. ILB did ask.
That is more than the zero I got from ILB & Rob this week. On multiple issues.
How this couple can draw comparison with the Jeremy Bamber case 7.8.85 escapes me.
Over to you Adam, it is your claim
-
Adam has turned the deaths of five people into a episode of country life!
-
How this couple can draw comparison with the Jeremy Bamber case 7.8.85 escapes me.
Over to you Adam, it is your claim
Because they prefer to live in a village with no artificial lighting. Unlike Bamber they can travel after 4pm in winter.
Read the article.
-
Summary -
Pre artificial lighting - The whole world.
Current situation - Villages in England. Villages around the world. Millions of people have no artificial lighting.
----------
And ILB says Bamber couldn't cycle for 20 minutes between where he lived & worked!
-
Now I've dismissed the cycling in the dark theory, ILB will be going on about BBQ's, teenagers, night fishermen and camping. After BD claimed this happened 5 miles away at a caravan site.
Goodness knows what Rob will come up with after his weird 'right of way' theory was dismissed.
Great.
-
Please highlight what is relevant
I can't draw a comparison between Jeremy Bamber and this couple and their life in Surrey. Apologies.
-
Please highlight what is relevant
I can't draw a comparison between Jeremy Bamber and this couple and their life in Surrey. Apologies.
Your theory that Bamber couldn't cycle for 20 minutes between where he lived and worked because 'it was at night' was always very very weak.
Now it has been dismissed. Even Bamber lived in a village with no street lighting!
Focus on BBQ's & teenagers.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/theydon-bois-the-town-with-no-street-lights-60066/%23:~:text%3DTheydon%2520Bois%252C%2520on%2520the%2520edge,absence%2520of%2520any%2520street%2520lighting.&ved=2ahUKEwjMotGKw8KFAxUKQ0EAHXR3DT4QFnoECA0QBQ&usg=AOvVaw2vVxF-JdnjnNdMlW268S7_
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cprenorfolk.org.uk/stories/lets-keep-our-villages-in-the-dark/&ved=2ahUKEwiu09yYw8KFAxXZZ0EAHbFmBBkQFnoECCgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0SSrXlyPiMOMTof4b_Uo4l
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.aol.co.uk/living/2019/12/09/britains-darkest-village-with-no-street-lights-becomes-illumina/&ved=2ahUKEwigkdS-w8KFAxUFV0EAHWseA7sQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1atIg38z0J0pd7fWZxiFu2
Google Maps 3D Goldhanger.
Actually Theydon Bois is not very good for star gazing, it's around Bortle 6.
-
Your theory that Bamber couldn't cycle for 20 minutes between where he lived and worked because 'it was at night' was always very very weak.
Now it has been dismissed. Even Bamber lived in a village with no street lighting!
Focus on BBQ's & teenagers.
You haven't done anything.
-
Seems Adam has put up a picture of a random couple living a Darby and Joan life as a detriment to Jeremy Bamber.
The logic escapes me.
Maybe an intervention is required?
-
Seems Adam has put up a picture of a random couple living a Darby and Joan life as a detriment to Jeremy Bamber.
The logic escapes me.
Maybe an intervention is required?
Your the one that put up pictures.
I put up sources.
Focus on BBQ's and teenagers. At least until your visit.
-
Summary -
Pre artificial lighting - The whole world.
Current situation - Villages in England. Villages around the world. Millions of people have no artificial lighting.
----------
And ILB says Bamber couldn't cycle for 20 minutes between where he lived & worked!
Perhaps you can explain why police officers in London prior to street lighting carried lanterns Adam?
-
Your the one that put up pictures.
I put up sources.
Focus on BBQ's and teenagers. At least until your visit.
I know what you was trying to insinuate.
However it's not logical and a comparison cannot be drawn between the two events.
-
Anyway we are being told to compare.
Stargazing in Norfolk.
A couples Darby and Joan life in Surrey.
A Christmas tree in worcestershire.
And Jeremy Bamber, convicted of slaughtering his family in 1985 in Essex.
-
Now I've dismissed the cycling in the dark theory, ILB will be going on about BBQ's, teenagers, night fishermen and camping. After BD claimed this happened 5 miles away at a caravan site.
Goodness knows what Rob will come up with after his weird 'right of way' theory was dismissed.
Great.
Public rights of way is not a theory Adam, have you found out which maps show them? I am trying to remember so I can tell you ;)
Why do manufactures make cycle lights if they are totally unnecessary Adam? The world is daft ::)
As rear bike lights are made to make you visible to other road users rather than light your route, they aren’t typically as bright as front lights. Most rear bikes go up to 100 lumens, so the closer you can get to this number, the better.
Your front lights will automatically be far brighter, and you should use our above guide on lit and unlit roads to inform your choice.
To cycle safely on unlit roads (especially rural ones) you’ll need between 400 to 600 lumens for maximum visibility. Without external lighting, your vision will be impaired significantly, and you’ll be less visible to drivers.
-
Public rights of way is not a theory Adam, have you found out which maps show them? I am trying to remember so I can tell you ;)
Why do manufactures make cycle lights if they are totally unnecessary Adam? The world is daft ::)
As rear bike lights are made to make you visible to other road users rather than light your route, they aren’t typically as bright as front lights. Most rear bikes go up to 100 lumens, so the closer you can get to this number, the better.
Your front lights will automatically be far brighter, and you should use our above guide on lit and unlit roads to inform your choice.
To cycle safely on unlit roads (especially rural ones) you’ll need between 400 to 600 lumens for maximum visibility. Without external lighting, your vision will be impaired significantly, and you’ll be less visible to drivers.
I have no idea whether Bamber used a front light.
He wouldn't need to for a 20 minute cycle ride. He had lived and worked between the 2 properties for years.
Him & millions of other people around the world are easily able to function in areas with no artificial lighting. He lived in Goldhanger which had none!
Move on.
-
Seems Bamber had x-ray vision and night vision goggles.
-
Was Bamber a cat ?
Could he morph?
-
I don't agree everyone in Goldhanger used night vision goggles when it got dark.
Residents will know there surroundings & use natural light.
However if wrong, Bamber would have then used his night vision goggles to cycle The Sea Wall.
-
I don't believe farm workers worked at 2am in the area. As ILB suggested.
However if they did they used the ambient light & land knowledge or night vision goggles.
Bamber either used the ambient light and land knowledge, or night vision goggles to cycle The Sea Wall.
-
I don't believe farmers in winter just worked when it was light. This would limit there hours to 8am - 4pm.
Obviously they worked beyond those hours using the ambient light and knowledge of the land.
-
I don't believe farmers in winter just worked when it was light. This would limit there hours to 8am - 4pm.
Obviously they worked beyond those hours using the ambient light and knowledge of the land.
I often work all through the night Adam, but I used head lights and usually carry two or three torches.
Please stop posting total crap!
-
I often work all through the night Adam, but I used head lights and usually carry two or three torches.
Please stop posting total crap!
Obviously farmers need there hands free. So won't be holding two or three torches.
Please stop posting total crap.
-
Rob is now saying he holds 'two or three torches'. And headlights.
What's he doing painting a picture with his mouth?
-
Obviously farmers need there hands free. So won't be holding two or three torches.
Please stop posting total crap.
You are a joke Adam, it's sad you cannot discuss the case seriously.
-
I don't agree there would be bike thieves on Pages Lane at 2am. As ILB suggested.
If there were obviously they would be wearing night vision goggles or using the ambient light and knowledge of the area.
-
You are a joke Adam, it's sad you cannot discuss the case seriously.
What are you doing which requires you to -
Wear head lights.
Hold 2/3 torches.
----------
Do you have more than 2 hands?
-
I have done a quick check. Seems night vision goggles were not readily available to purchase in 1985.
Residents of Goldhanger, 2am farmers, farmers in winter and nighttime bike thieves would be using the ambient light & area knowledge in 1985.
This is still the case now. Throughout the world when there is no artificial lighting.
-
I don't agree there would be bike thieves on Pages Lane at 2am. As ILB suggested.
If there were obviously they would be wearing night vision goggles or using the ambient light and knowledge of the area.
Bamber kissed his girlfriend in 1984.
-
What are you doing which requires you to -
Wear head lights.
Hold 2/3 torches.
----------
Do you have more than 2 hands?
I can't say what I do Adam, but I have a head torch and several others torches which I use as and when I need them. When I say carry they are on my person not in my hands.
If I am in a area of heavy light pollution and low cloud cover I don't need the more powerful torches so much. The same location and a clear sky can make a huge difference, now I would need torches more.
-
Rob is now saying he holds 'two or three torches'. And headlights.
What's he doing painting a picture with his mouth?
He's a Juggler.
-
He's a Juggler.
Yes true!
Actually someone always turns up without a torch (you get people like Adam who think they can see in the dark!) so I carry a spare plus another as backup.
-
Yes true!
Actually someone always turns up without a torch (you get people like Adam who think they can see in the dark!) so I carry a spare plus another as backup.
What are you doing with your torch. Reading, writing, making a protein drink?
Bamber would be doing none of these.
-
What are you doing with your torch. Reading, writing, making a protein drink?
Bamber would not be doing none of these.
I use torches Adam believe it or not so I can see where I am going.
I don't have the luxury of waiting for 45 minutes for my night vision to kick in I have work to do.
-
I use torches Adam believe it or not so I can see where I am going.
I don't have the luxury of waiting for 45 minutes for my night vision to kick in I have work to do.
A headlight? 3 torches, 45 minutes to get used to outside darkness.
I'm feeling like Superman.
-
A headlight? 3 torches, 45 minutes to get used to outside darkness.
I'm feeling like Superman.
No you are not Superman Adam you are just someone who posts about things which you have no experience or knowledge about.
-
No you are not Superman Adam you are just someone who posts about things which you have no experience or knowledge about.
Hope I experience outside darkness one evening.
-
Hope I experience outside darkness one evening.
Yes it's quite nice Adam hopefully it's a clear night in winter then you might spot M42?
-
You are flogging a dead horse Rob.
Apparently Bamber had every artificial light artifact that night.
-
You are flogging a dead horse Rob.
Apparently Bamber had every artificial light artifact that night.
Bit of fun ILB ;)
-
You are flogging a dead horse Rob.
Apparently Bamber had every artificial light artifact that night.
Phillip said Bamber would be spotted from a long way away. Obviously the light was good. As GG & RB said.
How else would 2am farmers and bike thieves operate?
-
Phillip said Bamber would be spotted from a long way away. Obviously the light was good. As GG & RB said.
How else would 2am farmers and bike thieves operate?
Exactly
Who the hell would see a man drive an astra at 2am in a sleepy hangar ?
They certainly didn't an hour and half later
-
Shame GG took his placebo blog down.
I can only imagine it was subjected to scrutiny.
-
Bit of fun ILB ;)
He'd argue the capital of England was Carlisle mate
-
Shame GG took his placebo blog down.
I can only imagine it was subjected to scrutiny.
Yes a shame.
The vlog did have a comments section which had several replies. No one disputed what he said. As he cycled the routes day and night.
-
Both sides on here agree the Sea Wall terrain was perfectly adequate to cycle.
A lot of photos, videos, WS's & information is online - wide farm tracks, tarmacked paths, foot/cycle paths & Pages Lane.
Bamber was fit, highly motivated and knew the route. So insects or 2 waist high styles on a 20 minute journey would not deter him.
But appreciate Bamber will say otherwise & a TikTok properganda video has been created. Gullible supporters will believe him.
ILB and Rob are the only people I am aware of in the last 39 years who say Bamber could not have cycled it because it was at night.
-
Did/do farmers wear helmets with powerful lights on?
These would be similar to what minors wear when underground.
Obviously a lot of there work would be in outside darkness. In winter it is only light 8am - 4pm.
If they didn't wear these they would be relying on the ambient light and land knowledge. If they did use them, then it would be a good option for Bamber when cycling.
They would need both hands free to work. So carrying a torch would not be practical.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/09/heat-night-harvesting-farmers/&ved=2ahUKEwir1YDi7MuFAxVjXEEAHf4uAoAQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0OSVMHt95lCW2uuNnrbTED
This farmer uses a headlight.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
Some of these photos highlight what GG was referring to when he said the ambient light made it so easy for him to see when cycling The Sea Wall.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/09/heat-night-harvesting-farmers/&ved=2ahUKEwir1YDi7MuFAxVjXEEAHf4uAoAQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0OSVMHt95lCW2uuNnrbTED
This farmer uses a headlight.
So not just me and ILB are blind Adam so is this farmer?
-
So not just me and ILB are blind Adam so is this farmer?
Obviously if Bamber was using a headlight when farming in darkness, he could use it to cycle.
-
https://youtu.be/ecizZLy1374?si=cyO5DTWi2zCThn9N
This is an example of a farm track seperating fields. As Rob previously said, wide enough for a tractor.
Bamber wouldn't need it that wide but wouldn't have been complaining if they were.
-
Obviously if Bamber was using a headlight when farming in darkness, he could use it to cycle.
A headlight could be seen from miles away so no.
-
A headlight could be seen from miles away so no.
Who would see him, Worzel Gummidge?
-
https://youtu.be/ecizZLy1374?si=cyO5DTWi2zCThn9N
This is an example of a farm track seperating fields. As Rob previously said, wide enough for a tractor.
Bamber wouldn't need it that wide but wouldn't have been complaining if they were.
Most fields would not have a farm track separating them.
-
Most fields would not have a farm track separating them.
The ones on Bamber's journey do.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.shutterstock.com/search/miner-headlamp&ved=2ahUKEwjGiYf0psyFAxVha0EAHQloD94QFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1EiX_rlHfzKWtJe__Rjq1K
These were mass produced in the 80's. So farmers could wear something similar when farming in the dark.
ILB suggested night vision goggles. These may have been used by elite navy seals in the 80's. But not farmers.
If farmers didn't wear helmet lights in the dark, obviously there was enough ambient light &;they had enough knowledge of the area.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.shutterstock.com/search/miner-headlamp&ved=2ahUKEwjGiYf0psyFAxVha0EAHQloD94QFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1EiX_rlHfzKWtJe__Rjq1K
These were mass produced in the 80's. So farmers could wear something similar when farming in the dark.
ILB suggested night vision goggles. These may have been used by elite navy seals in the 80's. But not farmers.
If farmers didn't wear helmet lights in the dark, obviously there was enough ambient light &;they had enough knowledge of the area.
Gosh you have changed your tone! Now you are saying all farmers are blind not just me!
-
Gosh you have changed your tone! Now you are saying all farmers are blind not just me!
I realised farmers will have to work in the dark.
So either used there knowledge of the area & the ambient light. Or used a headlight.
Ditto Bamber's cycle ride.
-
I realised farmers will have to work in the dark.
So either used there knowledge of the area & the ambient light. Or used a headlight.
Ditto Bamber's cycle ride.
Knowledge of the area does not help a lot if you are in a field, it's not like walking down your footpath and turning right for the chippy.
-
Knowledge of the area does not help a lot if you are in a field, it's not like walking down your footpath and turning right for the chippy.
Bamber would cycle The Sea Wall and farm tracks to Pages Lane.
No fields.
-
Bamber would cycle The Sea Wall and farm tracks to Pages Lane.
No fields.
Same thing, Bamber would not be saying to himself "need to get over to the right deep rut coming up in 20 yards".
It would be "oh S***" crash bang wallop.
-
Bamber would cycle The Sea Wall and farm tracks to Pages Lane.
No fields.
Was fields involved.
RB and Bamber.
-
Was fields involved.
RB and Bamber.
Bamber!
You didn't provide RB's extract. So dismissed.
How do you believe farmers work at night. Using natural light or headlights?
-
Bamber!
You didn't provide RB's extract. So dismissed.
How do you believe farmers work at night. Using natural light or headlights?
I don't have to provide anything. I'm not a student in your school. You have spent over a decade championing Bambers guilt. Please take a modicum of time to do your own research.
Farmers working at night ?
-
I don't have to provide anything. I'm not a student in your school. You have spent over a decade championing Bambers guilt. Please take a modicum of time to do your own research.
Farmers working at night ?
Farming is not am 8am-4pm job in for 6 months.
-
I don't have to provide anything. I'm not a student in your school. You have spent over a decade championing Bambers guilt. Please take a modicum of time to do your own research.
Farmers working at night ?
You need to provide a source for claims. Or they will be dismissed.
-
You need to provide a source for claims. Or they will be dismissed.
I don't have to do anything. Let's just make that clear from the outset. You don't dictate to me.
Please do your own research before you falsely call me a liar.
Thank you.
-
I don't have to do anything. Let's just make that clear from the outset. You don't dictate to me.
Please do your own research before you falsely call me a liar.
Thank you.
Up to you.
How do you believe farmers work at night. Using natural light or headlights?
Second request.
-
Up to you.
How do you believe farmers work at night. Using natural light or headlights?
Second request.
Im not familiar with the farming life. I thought it was an early rise.
Please make your point.
-
Up to you.
How do you believe farmers work at night. Using natural light or headlights?
Second request.
You get what I'm saying though?
You are as case enthusiast as I am, you can do your own research?
There are a myriad of documents.
-
Im not familiar with the farming life. I thought it was an early rise.
Please make your point.
Early rise = dark.
How do you believe farmers work in darkness. Using natural light or headlights?
Third request.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
In my view a lot of these photos show sufficient ambient light on farm land.
But waiting for ILB's answer.
-
ILB's protocol is -
He makes the claim. I search for the source.
What's not to like?!
-
ILB's protocol is -
He makes the claim. I search for the source.
What's not to like?!
We have both provide sources.
You provide false sources claiming that Bamber and June didn't speak since 1978!
-
Early rise = dark.
How do you believe farmers work in darkness. Using natural light or headlights?
Third request.
Accept that early rises can be in the dark.
But not in August.
You know this.
-
Early rise = dark.
How do you believe farmers work in darkness. Using natural light or headlights?
Third request.
Spotlights, torches, lights on a tractor, all types of artificial lighting.
I suppose it depends on the task they are undertaking.
I don't know what you are getting at.
-
Seems that Bamber got to work for 7.30am in the morning.
Unsure what the WHF schedule was to be honest. Although an employee Alan Fraser bell says when he arrived at the farm he would take instruction from either Nevill or Jeremy on the tasks for the day.
So guess that worker started the same time as Bamber or after.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
In my view a lot of these photos show sufficient ambient light on farm land.
But waiting for ILB's answer.
3d imagery is not the same as reality.
-
What's certain is Bambers duties were not just limited to labouring duties.
He was a chargehand and gave orders.
Being Nevills son no doubt there was a degree or nepotism.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
In my view a lot of these photos show sufficient ambient light on farm land.
But waiting for ILB's answer.
As you made the post Adam perhaps you could tell us the exposure lengths and ISO used for each picture?
I take photographs of the night sky with total exposure lengths that can run into hours but that does not mean I can see at night.
-
We have both provide sources.
You provide false sources claiming that Bamber and June didn't speak since 1978!
1978? I quoted Mary Mugfords court testimony. Source - Wilkes book.
How do you believe farmers work in darkness. Using natural light or headlights?
Forth request.
-
Accept that early rises can be in the dark.
But not in August.
You know this.
What's August got to do with anything?
How do you believe farmers work in darkness. Using natural light or headlights?
Fifth request.
-
Spotlights, torches, lights on a tractor, all types of artificial lighting.
I suppose it depends on the task they are undertaking.
I don't know what you are getting at.
An answer after 5 requests.
Torches are no good as they would need both hands free.
Spotlights. You mean like football stadiums have? None of those in Goldhanger or TD.
Do you agree a helmet with a light on is practical? They were easy to obrain and had been used for decades by thousands of people in other industries. I gave you a source of a farmer using one.
First request.
-
Just checked Tollshint D'arcy. No street lighting.
So Goldhanger, TD no street lighting. Farmers worked in the dark. Either using the ambient light or helmet lights.
Bamber's 20 minute bike ride gets easier and easier.
-
What's certain is Bambers duties were not just limited to labouring duties.
He was a chargehand and gave orders.
Being Nevills son no doubt there was a degree or nepotism.
Not talking about Bamber.
Was asking how thousands of farmers worked in darkness. You gave an answer after 5 requests.
Torches and spotlights are ruled out.
The most practical is headlights or ambient light. Obviously if Bamber used a helmet light, he could use it to cycle. Otherwise he would use the ambient light.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
This is the fairest representation of light on farmland at night. Hundreds of pages of photos.
ILB has posted individual photos of areas with no ambient lighting.
It is not credible to say the open farm tracks and Sea Wall would have no ambient lighting.
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An answer after 5 requests.
Torches are no good as they would need both hands free.
Spotlights. You mean like football stadiums have? None of those in Goldhanger or TD.
Do you agree a helmet with a light on is practical? They were easy to obrain and had been used for decades by thousands of people in other industries. I gave you a source of a farmer using one.
First request.
You are just making yourself look like an absolute tit.
You can prop torches on a surface to illuminate the area you are working at.
A spotlight is not a football stadium floodlight. You know this.
A helmet with a light is decent. Although there is no source of Junes bike having any light whatsoever.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
This is the fairest representation of light on farmland at night. Hundreds of pages of photos.
ILB has posted individual photos of areas with no ambient lighting.
It is not credible to say the open farm tracks and Sea Wall would have no ambient lighting.
How the hell does computer imagery relate to the real thing :))
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Even your source of couple living the Darby and Joan life in Surrey was more relevant.
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1978? I quoted Mary Mugfords court testimony. Source - Wilkes book.
How do you believe farmers work in darkness. Using natural light or headlights?
Forth request.
Well Bamber and June did speak.
Wilkes book provides no sources itself. He didn't meet Bamber till the early nineties.
But fair play, an interesting book to read.
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A combine harvester or tractor will have lights on it.
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You are just making yourself look like an absolute tit.
You can prop torches on a surface to illuminate the area you are working at.
A spotlight is not a football stadium floodlight. You know this.
A helmet with a light is decent. Although there is no source of Junes bike having any light whatsoever.
You wear a helmet on your head. Not put it on a bike.
It is why it's called a helmet.
You tit.
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Anyway, good.
ILB believes farmers who work at night either use the ambient natural light. Or may wear a helmet light
Bamber used one or the other to cycle. Or used both.
He would be used to using ambient light. Goldhanger & TD had no artificial lighting & he had been a farmer for years.
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How the hell does computer imagery relate to the real thing :))
They are photos. Hundreds of them.
Pitch black, lol.
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You wear a helmet on your head. Not put it on a bike.
It is why it's called a helmet.
You tit.
A helmet can have a torch on.
You tit.
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They are photos. Hundreds of them.
Pitch black, lol.
By all means stick with your 3d imagery.
Reality however
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A helmet can have a torch on.
You tit.
I know. It is what I have been suggesting farmers used. With a source. A helmet light.
Keep up.
You suggested Bamber used a torch & would put it on the floor. What would he see, his feet?
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I know. It is what I have been suggesting farmers used. With a source. A helmet light.
Keep up.
You suggested Bamber used a torch & would put it on the floor. What would he see, his feet?
Did I ?
The bike didn't have an artificial light.
Anyway common sense dictates he went in the astra.
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Pattern emerging here with Adam.
His mantra was always " oh Bamber didn't need any light whatsoever he could do the sea wall journey on the bike blindfolded "
Now he is bringing helmets with torches, bike lights and other pieces of artificial lighting to the table!
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What's August got to do with anything?
A lot, the event we are discussing took place on August 7th 1985.
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Bamber's cycling options -
Rely on ambient light & area knowledge. As everyone in Goldhanger & TD did.
Use his helmet light. If he had one for work.
Buy a helmet light. They would be mass produced.
Use a front bike light.
Use all of these or just the ambient light.
--------
My view is there was enough ambient light & he knew the route. It was a 20 minute journey on good terrain.
But lots of options. ILB thinks people can't go more than 5 feet from there front doors without artificial lighting. Bamber would have this weak theory covered.
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Bamber's cycling options -
Rely on ambient light & area knowledge. As everyone in Goldhanger & TD did.
Use his helmet light. If he had one for work.
Buy a helmet light. They would be mass produced.
Use a front bike light.
Use all of these or just the ambient light.
--------
My view is there was enough ambient light & he knew the route. It was a 20 minute journey on good terrain.
But lots of options. ILB thinks people can't go more than 5 feet from there front doors without artificial lighting. Bamber had this theory covered.
So you now accept GG used artificial lighting night vision goggles etc.
Your initial Bamber sea wall theory was that he didn't use any lighting whatsoever.
You have changed story.
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So you now accept GG used artificial lighting night vision goggles etc.
Your initial Bamber sea wall theory was that he didn't use any lighting whatsoever.
You have changed story.
Just wondered how farmers work in the dark.
The most practical answer is either using the ambient light. Or wearing a powerful light helmet. Or both.
Ditto Bamber's bike ride.
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Just wondered how farmers work in the dark.
The most practical answer is either using the ambient light. Or wearing a powerful light helmet. Or both.
Ditto Bamber's bike ride.
Bambers 2am cycle ride madness resulting him going to A&E
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Bamber!
Julie!
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Bambers 2am cycle ride madness resulting him going to A&E
A & E?
So that's why there are signs in Goldhanger & TD saying 'No walking or cycling in the dark'.
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As I've said just too much pissing about.
Brand new astra on the driveway.
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Awake residents of Head Street that heard a car starting up or arriving back may look outside there window. They would then see Bamber & his car.
I don't believe they would forget that as it would not be a common event. Espescially if watching the news the following day.
Head Street properties were close together and near the road.
But you are a big risk taker & don't believe in what you consider 'pissing about' for 500k+.
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Awake residents of Head Street that heard a car starting up or arriving back may look outside there window. They would then see Bamber & his car.
I don't believe they would forget that as it would not be a common event. Espescially if watching the news the following day.
Head Street properties were close together and near the road.
But you are a big risk taker & don't believe in what you consider 'pissing about' for 500k+.
Nobody wakes up to the sound of a car engine.
Why do you think the vast majority of van thefts take place at night ?
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Soon as he's out of his estate he's on the country roads and he's away.
So easy.
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Nobody wakes up to the sound of a car engine.
Why do you think the vast majority of van thefts take place at night ?
They may already be awake. Lots of properties near 9, Head Steet & Bamber's car.
But as said, you would drive & let yourself in with the key. After Nevill & June didn't bolt the door.
Cycling & getting in through the bathroom window would be 'too much pissing about' for you for 500k+.
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Soon as he's out of his estate he's on the country roads and he's away.
So easy.
If you couldn't get in with a key, would you climb through the bathroom window.
Or is that 'too much pissing about' for 500k+?
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Soon as he's out of his estate he's on the country roads and he's away.
So easy.
Yes only 90 people until on Maldon Road.
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Yes only 90 people until on Maldon Road.
Properties set back.
On the off chance somebody is awake they are not going to rush to their window to gawp at the sound of a car driving past.
Of course that's if they even hear it.
I'm currently sat in my living room and I've just heard three go down the street.
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Properties set back.
On the off chance somebody is awake they are not going to rush to their window to gawp at the sound of a car driving past.
Of course that's if they even hear it.
I'm currently sat in my living room and I've just heard three go down the street.
Doesn't matter about now. It was about minimising the risk in 1985.
For a big reward but also a big punishment if unsuccessful.
The prosecution didn't believe Bamber would be so daft.
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Doesn't matter about now. It was about minimising the risk in 1985.
For a big reward but also a big punishment if unsuccessful.
The prosecution didn't believe Bamber would be so daft.
But believed he was daft enough to confide in Julie that he killed his parents sister and nephews....
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Biggest risk with the car is it breaking down.
On the way back if that happened then he would be fucked. I admit that.
Brand new motor, 16 minute drive hmmm
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Biggest risk with the car is it breaking down.
On the way back if that happened then he would be fucked. I admit that.
Brand new motor, 16 minute drive hmmm
If you couldn't get in with a key, would you climb through the bathroom window.
Or is that 'too much pissing about' for 500k+?
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Pattern emerging here with Adam.
His mantra was always " oh Bamber didn't need any light whatsoever he could do the sea wall journey on the bike blindfolded "
Now he is bringing helmets with torches, bike lights and other pieces of artificial lighting to the table!
Next thing Adam will be saying JB went by tractor then he could toe a stadium light behind him!
It took years for Adam to accept the sea wall route, then from no lights to floodlights!
I think it all changed when he found out where WHF was?
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Next thing Adam will be saying JB went by tractor then he could toe a stadium light behind him!
It took years for Adam to accept the sea wall route, then from no lights to floodlights!
I think it all changed when he found out where WHF was?
Just wondering how farmers farm in the dark.
Obviously if they used helmets with lights, as my source showed a farmer doing, then that would be an option for Bamber when he cycled.
If they just rely on the ambient light which my source showed hundreds of photos of good ambient lighting, then Bamber cycled just using the ambient light.
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Just wondering how farmers farm in the dark.
Obviously if they used helmets with lights, as my source showed a farmer doing, then that would be an option for Bamber when he cycled.
If they just rely on the ambient light which my source showed hundreds of photos of good ambient lighting, then Bamber cycled just using the ambient light.
Adam in my view Bamber could not use any form of lighting, in the country side a light could be seen from miles around.
I think we are at the point where the safest option was walking, and to be honest not that much slower than cycling. Driving is another option but to my way of thinking only if Bamber had access to another car? Could he risk taking his own car maybe?
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People that explore caves would wear helmets with lights. Together with people who climb mountains or go on walks which go into the night.
It is a good option for any job in darkness.
Obviously Bamber would have the option of using one to cycle with. If farmers used these. Or just use the good ambient light.
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Adam in my view Bamber could not use any form of lighting, in the country side a light could be seen from miles around.
I think we are at the point where the safest option was walking, and to be honest not that much slower than cycling. Driving is another option but to my way of thinking only if Bamber had access to another car? Could he risk taking his own car maybe?
Who would see a light at 2am?
He doesn't pass any properties between Head Street and WHF.
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People that explore caves would wear helmets with lights. Together with people who climb mountains or go on walks which go into the night.
It is a good option for any job in darkness.
Obviously Bamber would have the option of using one to cycle with. If farmers used these. Or just use the good ambient light.
I have a helmet with a light on use it all the time, I go for the less bright ones so I get two or three days use out of a battery. The bright ones don't last that long.
But ever so risky using lights ?
2 am? In my experience there is always someone around.
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I have a helmet with a light on use it all the time, I go for the less bright ones so I get two or three days use out of a battery. The bright ones don't last that long.
But ever so risky using lights ?
2 am? In my experience there is always someone around.
Well Miller said 'no one would see him in a million years'.
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Well Miller said 'no one would see him in a million years'.
Well he would Adam, Miller was the cop with those "blinking eyes" when asked about JB being guilty.
A sure sign of lying.
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Well Miller said 'no one would see him in a million years'.
Naturally, as member of CID on the case....
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I do agree with Miller.
Once on The Sea Wall, the nearest property is Wyke Farm on Pages Lane.
This is half a mile off The Sea Wall.
Bamber can get onto Pages Lane and avoid going past Wyke Farm by cycling up the farm track a few hundred yards before the prosecutions left turn. Then turning right.
He would go within 175 yards of another farm but not go past it.
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Naturally, as member of CID on the case....
If you couldn't get in with a key, would you climb through the bathroom window.
Or is that 'too much pissing about' for 500k+
Third time I have asked this.
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If you couldn't get in with a key, would you climb through the bathroom window.
Or is that 'too much pissing about' for 500k+
Third time I have asked this.
Very risky feat. Risking five life sentences for murder.
Madness to suggest anyone will hear a car engine start and then suddenly rush to their window to gawp in amazement at 2am.
Stupid to cycle on a ladies bike in the dark over fields and a route you don't know. Complete darkness.
Good ol' de'ath confirming the sea wall being populated.
Yes too much pissing about and potentially fatal in terms of being ID
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In answer to your question would I climb through a bathroom window ?
No, I personally wouldn't. I wouldn't kill five members of my family for monetary gain.
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In answer to your question would I climb through a bathroom window ?
No, I personally wouldn't. I wouldn't kill five members of my family for monetary gain.
So you would drive. Try to get in with a key.
Then drive home if the key didn't work.
Thank you.
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Not sure how cycling for 20 minutes on good terrain is 'pissing about'.
People cycle every day. Usually for longer than 20 minutes. Day and night. With and without artificial lighting.
Bamber's route was in the open so would have good ambient light. He knew the route anyway.
Madness to drive past 45 properties, 90 people, other cars and security cameras.
But some people are bigger risk takers & pay the price.
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Helmets with lighting are used by -
Minors.
Cavers.
Climbers.
Walkers.
People that work at night. Such as some construction workers.
--------
Obviously there will be other uses which I haven't thought of.
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So very possible farmers used helmets when farming in the dark. If not, a helmet or bike light would be easy for Bamber to purchase.
Not sure a bike light or helmet would have benefitted Bamber much. Both RB & GG said there was good lighting on the route. Which is not surprising as it is in the open. Bamber also knew the route.
But if Rob & ILB believe he needed artificial lighting, the options were there.
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So very possible farmers used helmets when farming in the dark. If not, a helmet or bike light would be easy for Bamber to purchase.
Not sure a bike light or helmet would have benefitted Bamber much. Both RB & GG said there was good lighting on the route. Which is not surprising as it is in the open. Bamber also knew the route.
But if Rob & ILB believe he needed artificial lighting, the options were there.
Thanks for that Adam.
I'm still going with my hypothesis.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://helmets.org/helmetlights.htm%23:~:text%3DHelmet%2520lights%2520are%2520particularly%2520useful,up%2520for%2520the%2520next%2520turn.&ved=2ahUKEwifoMah-dCFAxUlWkEAHdMADHYQFnoECA0QBQ&usg=AOvVaw1CcyV6jKctWMiY932Mg_0q
Seems a helmet light would be more effective than a bike light.
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'It is a legal requirement to wear a helmet when at work on a farm ATV'.
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'It is a legal requirement to wear a helmet when at work on a farm ATV'.
Haha, this is 1985 when this happened.
Legislation for most things was in its infancy. I did things on a YTS scheme in the 1980s that would put employers before a jury in this day and age.
Nice try.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://helmets.org/helmetlights.htm%23:~:text%3DHelmet%2520lights%2520are%2520particularly%2520useful,up%2520for%2520the%2520next%2520turn.&ved=2ahUKEwifoMah-dCFAxUlWkEAHdMADHYQFnoECA0QBQ&usg=AOvVaw1CcyV6jKctWMiY932Mg_0q
Seems a helmet light would be more effective than a bike light.
As mentioned by myself and Rob, this sits a long way away from your initial " Bamber didn't use a light guv" cobblers.
You have know backed yourself into a corner and now accept he needed some type of artificial lighting, despite arguing the contrary for a significant amount of time.
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Not sure the relevance of farming duties with lighting and Bambers apparent murderous sea wall route to the farm. Only thing relevant is the fact both he and Nevill were farmers.
The murder wasn't due to farm duties.
Bamber purported cycling of the sea wall to murder his family wasn't in his list of work duties. It was totally unrelated.
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Seems GG correctly decided to take his false blog down after realising it was biased and unreliable.
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Seems GG correctly decided to take his false blog down after realising it was biased and unreliable.
You think GG, RB, Wilkinson & Miller all lied.
Do you think Phillip lied when he said there was good light?
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You think GG, RB, Wilkinson & Miller all lied.
Do you think Phillip lied when he said there was good light?
I have not seen Philip Walkers take on the sea wall.
I think GG taking his blog down is somewhat significant
Miller was biased, he was part of the CID that brought Bamber to trial. Wilkinson was a DI working under Ainsley. ( The top guy)
What did RB say?
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Adam, I know you are pro police ( until you are arrested) but I would be interested on your opinion on this chaps comment, ( undeneath the unbiased ex met detective Peter Bleksley )
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I have not seen Philip Walkers take on the sea wall.
I think GG taking his blog down is somewhat significant
Miller was biased, he was part of the CID that brought Bamber to trial. Wilkinson was a DI working under Ainsley. ( The top guy)
What did RB say?
Phillip said Bamber could be spotted from distance. As The Sea Wall was an open area with good light.
Do you think the defence did not check Wilkinson's WS. They had a year.
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Phillip said Bamber could be spotted from distance. As The Sea Wall was an open area with good light.
Do you think the defence did not check Wilkinson's WS. They had a year.
No I don't as I've stated before.
The mantra was Bamber was in his cottage asleep until he was woken by his dad.
You know this.
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No I don't as I've stated before.
The mantra was Bamber was in his cottage asleep until he was woken by his dad.
You know this.
I believe they did check the route.
Do you think it would have been a good idea for the defence to check Bamber's route?
They had a year.
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To be honest the only way you could create reasonable doubt to make this compelling as a none starter ( the sea wall) was to take the jury on an excersise and visit to the sea wall and the route the prosecution alleged Bamber took on the night.
Obviously this would have to be replicated in the middle of the night to represent a true picture.
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I believe they did check the route.
Do you think it would have been a good idea for the defence to check Bamber's route?
They had a year.
We would have to either ask Jeremy Bamber or Paul Terzeon or Geoffrey Rivlin. I think Geoffrey Rivlin is still alive, may be wrong.
I know that Ed Lawson junion counsel died some years ago.
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I personally don't think they did check the route.
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To be honest the only way you could create reasonable doubt to make this compelling as a none starter ( the sea wall) was to take the jury on an excersise and visit to the sea wall and the route the prosecution alleged Bamber took on the night.
Obviously this would have to be replicated in the middle of the night to represent a true picture.
Do you think Bamber told his defence cycling The Sea Wall was 'impossible' and 'laughable'?
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I personally don't think they did check the route.
Wilkinson got lucky then.
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Do you think Bamber told his defence cycling The Sea Wall was 'impossible' and 'laughable'?
I believe he probably did in legal visits whilst on remand.
As said no transcript of the Rivlin and Bamber direct survives.
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Wilkinson got lucky then.
Bambers defence was he was innocent.
His mantra was he never made a journey and was home in the cottage.
That was the defence at Chelmsford in 1986.
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In fairness, a jury visit to the sea wall may have been beneficial
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But it had to replicate in my view the time the accused made the journey.
Going at 10am in the morning wouldn't have been useful
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But it had to replicate in my view the time the accused made the journey.
Going at 10am in the morning wouldn't have been useful
Do you think the defence went there at night. But realised there was good ambient light. As RB, GG & Phillip said and my hundreds of photos show?
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Do you think the defence went there at night. But realised there was good ambient light. As RB, GG & Phillip said and my hundreds of photos show?
No I don't.
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Adam, I know you are pro police ( until you are arrested) but I would be interested on your opinion on this chaps comment, ( undeneath the unbiased ex met detective Peter Bleksley )
Jeremy Bamber has been faking evidence for the last 40 years. Easily provable lies, and you post a comment from an unknown person ranting and frothing at the mouth, and you expect people to take that comment seriously.
Stick to the known facts. Jeremy Bamber has been creating lies for the past 40 years and presenting those lies as new evidence.
Those lies are easily proved as lies, even to a member of the public. And the CCRC summarized 8 years of submission and subsequent investigations as 'pure speculation and unsubstantiated allegations'
The CCRC basically labelled him a liar.
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No I don't.
Do you believe open areas do not produce ambient light and Phillip, GG & RB were wrong.
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Jeremy Bamber has been faking evidence for the last 40 years. Easily provable lies, and you post a comment from an unknown person ranting and frothing at the mouth, and you expect people to take that comment seriously.
Stick to the known facts. Jeremy Bamber has been creating lies for the past 40 years and presenting those lies as new evidence.
Those lies are easily proved as lies, even to a member of the public. And the CCRC summarized 8 years of submission and subsequent investigations as 'pure speculation and unsubstantiated allegations'
The CCRC basically labelled him a liar.
Thanks for that.
But I'm expected at the same time to take couples from Surrey and biased pro gulit ( no longer live ) blogs?
No thank you killingeve
But at the same time can you prove the person in the comment is a liar? But my comment was directed at Adam, not you.
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Do you believe open areas do not produce ambient light and Phillip, GG & RB were wrong.
What time did Philip visit ?
I've discredited GG
What did RB say
Thanks
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Think both killingeve and Adam have wasted their time?
Why dedicate your time to a case where the individual is never getting out, not even looking at the case from an on the fence stance.
Wouldnt flower arranging be more productive ?
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Thanks for that.
But I'm expected at the same time to take couples from Surrey and biased pro gulit ( no longer live ) blogs?
No thank you killingeve
But at the same time can you prove the person in the comment is a liar? But my comment was directed at Adam, not you.
Why do you think GG's blog was biased?
Is it because he wrote 'the ambient light made it so easy to see'?
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What time did Philip visit ?
I've discredited GG
What did RB say
Thanks
You need a reason to discard GG. Not just because he says something you don't like.
Phillip and Yvonne visited during the day.
Phillip knows there would be light at night as it is an open area.
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Why do you think GG's blog was biased?
Is it because he wrote 'the ambient light made it so easy to see'?
I believe he was pro guilt
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You need a reason to discard GG. Not just because he says something you don't like.
Phillip and Yvonne visited during the day.
Phillip knows there would be light at night as it is an open area.
GG used night vision goggles, I don't think much more needs to be said about this individual.
You confirm Phillip visited in the day.
Thanks Adam.
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GG used night vision goggles, I don't think much more needs to be said about this individual.
You confirm Phillip visited in the day.
Thanks Adam.
Please don't mention night vision goggles. You do yourself no credit.
I agreed Bamber had the option of using a bike light or helmet light. Which were easy to purchase.
Do you not agree with Phillip that open areas would have good ambient light?
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Please don't mention night vision goggles. You do yourself no credit.
I agreed Bamber had the option of using a bike light or helmet light. Which were easy to purchase.
Do you not agree with Phillip that open areas would have good ambient light?
Where is this ambient light coming from Adam?
The Moon that night assuming a totally clear sky would be around 0.06 lux (probably less) a single streetlight would be around 6 lux. So the illumination from the Moon would be over 100 times less that a typical streetlight.
Oh by the way I like your photos of the blue hour you posted, shame they were not taken during total darkness.
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Where is this ambient light coming from Adam?
The Moon that night assuming a totally clear sky would be around 0.06 lux (probably less) a single streetlight would be around 6 lux. So the illumination from the Moon would be over 100 times less that a typical streetlight.
Oh by the way I like your photos of the blue hour you posted, shame they were not taken during total darkness.
My pleasure. It was over 100 photos. Which show ambient light on farm land.
Believe ILB believes if there is no artificial lighting people can't see past there own nose. Although Goldhanger & TD has no artificial lighting.
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Please don't mention night vision goggles. You do yourself no credit.
I agreed Bamber had the option of using a bike light or helmet light. Which were easy to purchase.
Do you not agree with Phillip that open areas would have good ambient light?
I stand by my assessment on GG. Whether you think it's creditable or not.
I don't believe I can draw comparison between what Philip says and the facts of the case.
Day and night
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My pleasure. It was over 100 photos. Which show ambient light on farm land.
Believe ILB believes if there is no artificial lighting people can't see past there own nose. Although Goldhanger & TD has no artificial lighting.
Could you give me the exposure and ISO times you used? I take blue hour photos and the data would be useful.
Thanks.
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Believe only a time applicable to the time Jeremy Bamber did the journey can assess the sea wall.
A day time stroll serves no purpose
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Could you give me the exposure and ISO times you used? I take blue hour photos and the data would be useful.
Thanks.
He doesn't have that information.
Just cartoon drawings and couples posing from Surrey.
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He doesn't have that information.
Just cartoon drawings and couples posing from Surrey.
Yes I know ILB, many of those photos are blue hour shots makes you laugh!
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Yes I know ILB, many of those photos are blue hour shots makes you laugh!
Very cringeworthy.
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Thanks for that.
But I'm expected at the same time to take couples from Surrey and biased pro gulit ( no longer live ) blogs?
No thank you killingeve
But at the same time can you prove the person in the comment is a liar? But my comment was directed at Adam, not you.
I can prove that the person in the comment is wrong by referring them to the previous 40 years since the crime was committed, and the investigations which have proven no corruption.
That is legally proven.
Whether he/she/it is a liar or not is irrelevant. It's whether the words in the comment are correct or not, and they are provably incorrect.
And the guilty verdict is the legally correct one. This isn't a 50/50 thing. It's a 100/0 thing.
He is guilty. That is legal fact. It's not just about believing he's guilty. He is guilty.
The evidence that he submits, claiming to objectively prove his innocence, is no such thing. And he knows that it is no such thing. He makes no effort whatsoever to find new evidence.
He makes a lot of effort creating lies around existing documentation. And that documentation, in reality, merely shows the police doing their job properly.
It's like having a receipt for fish fingers from Lidl, and then showing it to someone, bragging to them that it's a receipt for some caviar from Harrods. And then expecting everyone to actually believe that its a receipt for some caviar from Harrods.
When we can all see that its a receipt for fish fingers from Lidl.
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Yes I know ILB, many of those photos are blue hour shots makes you laugh!
You do know that 'blue hour' doesn't mean watching porn for an hour don't you?
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Could you give me the exposure and ISO times you used? I take blue hour photos and the data would be useful.
Thanks.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
They are not my photos.
But hundreds of photos of farm land at night. Showing good light.
But you and ILB are entitled to say Bamber also needed a helmet/bike light.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/farm-field-at-night&ved=2ahUKEwjikprr7suFAxWZW0EAHb3ZAwc4ChAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jSw19DsSgbkp7zsze9-xP
They are not my photos.
But hundreds of photos of farm land at night. Showing good light.
But you and ILB are entitled to say Bamber also needed a helmet/bike light.
Cartoon pictures, Surrey couples, Christmas trees.
Whatever next
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I can prove that the person in the comment is wrong by referring them to the previous 40 years since the crime was committed, and the investigations which have proven no corruption.
That is legally proven.
Whether he/she/it is a liar or not is irrelevant. It's whether the words in the comment are correct or not, and they are provably incorrect.
And the guilty verdict is the legally correct one. This isn't a 50/50 thing. It's a 100/0 thing.
He is guilty. That is legal fact. It's not just about believing he's guilty. He is guilty.
The evidence that he submits, claiming to objectively prove his innocence, is no such thing. And he knows that it is no such thing. He makes no effort whatsoever to find new evidence.
He makes a lot of effort creating lies around existing documentation. And that documentation, in reality, merely shows the police doing their job properly.
It's like having a receipt for fish fingers from Lidl, and then showing it to someone, bragging to them that it's a receipt for some caviar from Harrods. And then expecting everyone to actually believe that its a receipt for some caviar from Harrods.
When we can all see that its a receipt for fish fingers from Lidl.
Well I agree Jeremy Bamber is currently a X5 convicted murderer. Having being convicted by a 10 to 2 majority in 1986.
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You do know that 'blue hour' doesn't mean watching porn for an hour don't you?
Yes I know, but we need to teach Adam that phots taken during the blue hour will appear to show a lot of ambient light.
But now I find out he never even took them!
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I can do no more than provide hundreds of photos of night ambient light in farm areas.
Which is better than ILB posting an individual photo of an area with no ambient light. This does not represent an open area.
But ILB & Rob are not going to change there opinion that Bamber needed either a bike or helmet light.
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A helmet light would be more beneficial. That follows the movement of your head/eyes.
You can be cycling in a straight line and be able to check what is either side of you
Bike lights are more so drivers can see you. A front light may only be effective for a few feet in front of you.
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Well I agree Jeremy Bamber is currently a X5 convicted murderer. Having being convicted by a 10 to 2 majority in 1986.
And the 'new evidence' that he has submitted over the years merely documents normal police processes, nothing more.
Wrapping a bunch of lies around it doesn't count as evidence.
He's not even trying.
He's just trolling the system and getting as much attention as he can because he loves himself.
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A helmet light would be more beneficial. That follows the movement of your head/eyes.
You can be cycling in a straight line and be able to check what is either side of you
Bike lights are more so drivers can see you. A front light may only be effective for a few feet in front of you.
According to CAL's book, the bike was new (although it could have been second hand). So if brand new, I'd imagine it came with a dynamo or something similar. Not sure though.
But he could have hand held a conventional torch, or taped it to the bike. Or the bike may have come with conventional lights already installed.
There was enough moonlight to do the whole thing, and the moonlight would have made things easier, but I'd recommend using a torch. If you are cycling at night on off road tracks (as I often do), you need a little bit of light just to light up the section of road in front of you. And I'm talking just 2 or 3 feet.
He would only have needed a trickle of light from a torch in the darkness to allow him to see 5 feet in front of the bike.
However he did it, it was a relatively easy thing to do. Only a rabid Bamber supporter would falsely claim that it was impossible.
Not that any of this matters. This is a legally watertight issue, that cannot be legally challenged. It would never count as new evidence. Also, to claim that it was impossible to complete in darkness with a bike and a torch, on a sufficiently moonlit night, is not capable of belief. People cross the channel with less.
Just a quick search on google gave me the link below...but I can confirm, on the night that Jeremy Bamber murdered his entire family, there was enough moonlight to cycle to WHF and back. Fact.
These posts below talk about the full moon giving as much light as a streetlight. On the night Jeremy Bamber murdered his family, it was something like 68%. Not the luxury of 100% moon, but good enough.
https://new.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/4yewtb/does_moonlight_really_give_enough_visibility_to/
The thing is, even when there is no moon, there us still some light around. It's never pitch black.
-
Obviously I think the none starter sea wall scenario is an excellent prosecution narrative for pure empathsis in terms of creating the " silent unseen journey bullshit "
Thank god for de'ath RB and Bamber and reality confirming it was a non starter.
It was very admirable of GG to take his blog down after he admitted he had got it wrong.
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Jeremy Bamber has been faking evidence for the last 40 years. Easily provable lies, and you post a comment from an unknown person ranting and frothing at the mouth, and you expect people to take that comment seriously.
Stick to the known facts. Jeremy Bamber has been creating lies for the past 40 years and presenting those lies as new evidence.
Those lies are easily proved as lies, even to a member of the public. And the CCRC summarized 8 years of submission and subsequent investigations as 'pure speculation and unsubstantiated allegations'
The CCRC basically labelled him a liar.
What evidence has Jeremy Bamber personally faked?
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According to CAL's book, the bike was new (although it could have been second hand). So if brand new, I'd imagine it came with a dynamo or something similar. Not sure though.
But he could have hand held a conventional torch, or taped it to the bike. Or the bike may have come with conventional lights already installed.
There was enough moonlight to do the whole thing, and the moonlight would have made things easier, but I'd recommend using a torch. If you are cycling at night on off road tracks (as I often do), you need a little bit of light just to light up the section of road in front of you. And I'm talking just 2 or 3 feet.
He would only have needed a trickle of light from a torch in the darkness to allow him to see 5 feet in front of the bike.
However he did it, it was a relatively easy thing to do. Only a rabid Bamber supporter would falsely claim that it was impossible.
Not that any of this matters. This is a legally watertight issue, that cannot be legally challenged. It would never count as new evidence. Also, to claim that it was impossible to complete in darkness with a bike and a torch, on a sufficiently moonlit night, is not capable of belief. People cross the channel with less.
Just a quick search on google gave me the link below...but I can confirm, on the night that Jeremy Bamber murdered his entire family, there was enough moonlight to cycle to WHF and back. Fact.
These posts below talk about the full moon giving as much light as a streetlight. On the night Jeremy Bamber murdered his family, it was something like 68%. Not the luxury of 100% moon, but good enough.
https://new.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/4yewtb/does_moonlight_really_give_enough_visibility_to/
The thing is, even when there is no moon, there us still some light around. It's never pitch black.
Yes an easy 20 minute bike ride for a highly motivated Bamber who knew the route.
The defence would have checked day and night. Then agreed making it an issue would do more harm than good. So just said 'possible but no one saw him'.
Have you got a source it was 68%?
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Obviously the defence didn't check.
Adam just making shit up as he goes along.
But that is Adam.
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https://new.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/4yewtb/does_moonlight_really_give_enough_visibility_to/
Interesting link from Killingeve.
Everyone saying you can cycle at night. Easily.
Just using the stars, moon and ambient light.
But ILB will say the link is biased.
It's what cowards do.
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'Absolutely. I do a lot of cross-country hiking at night by the light of the moon, and even just by starlight if I'm familiar with the route. Spoken as a country boy'.
-
'Absolutely. I can walk with ease by starlight (as long as trees don't block overhead). I can read by a full moon.'
-
'Definitely. I grew up doing a lot of hunting, often going out well before light, and moon and star light can make a huge difference'.
-
'Questions like this make me really sad for anyone who hasn't gotten to experience a natural night. Night hikes are on of my favorite things. Just go get lost near Tahoe or something and turn off all your lights and let the stars guide you.'
-
'Come to Scotland. Although you don't even need to be far outside town to be able to see the night sky properly. I have navigated through dense forest by moonlight before'.
-
'Wow, this is fascinating. I never would have thought this seemed unlikely to someone. It's amazing how different life experiences can be between city and rural upbringing'.
-
'Wait long enough and you'll see almost as clear as day, but details and colors will be hard to make out'.
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It all depends on the night. But in 'general, even with little moonlight, as long as there isn't too much cloud cover you can move around decently just by the starlight'.
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'in general yes, the moon and stars are plenty bright enough to walk under.'
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'And, a full moon can seem as bright as a street lamp under the right circumstances.'
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'Absolutely. I do a lot of cross-country hiking at night by the light of the moon, and even just by starlight if I'm familiar with the route. Spoken as a country boy'.
Over to you ILB & Rob.
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'Absolutely. I can walk with ease by starlight (as long as trees don't block overhead). I can read by a full moon.'
Over to you ILB & Rob.
-
'Definitely. I grew up doing a lot of hunting, often going out well before light, and moon and star light can make a huge difference'.
Over to you ILB & Rob.
-
'Questions like this make me really sad for anyone who hasn't gotten to experience a natural night. Night hikes are on of my favorite things. Just go get lost near Tahoe or something and turn off all your lights and let the stars guide you.'
Over to you ILB and Rob.
-
'Come to Scotland. Although you don't even need to be far outside town to be able to see the night sky properly. I have navigated through dense forest by moonlight before'.
Over to you ILB and Rob.
-
'Wow, this is fascinating. I never would have thought this seemed unlikely to someone. It's amazing how different life experiences can be between city and rural upbringing'.
Over to you ILB and Rob.
-
'Wait long enough and you'll see almost as clear as day, but details and colors will be hard to make out'.
Over to you ILB and Rob.
-
It all depends on the night. But in 'general, even with little moonlight, as long as there isn't too much cloud cover you can move around decently just by the starlight'.
Over to you ILB and Rob.
-
'And, a full moon can seem as bright as a street lamp under the right circumstances.'
Over to you ILB and Rob.
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Everyone"
A select number of people on Reddit :))
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I am dismissing the post.
-
In the last week alone I have -
Confirmed there is no artificial lighting at Goldhanger.
Confirmed there is no artificial lighting at TD.
Confirmed farmers work in the dark.
Confirmed farmers wear helmets with lights.
Posted a link with hundreds of photos of lit up farm land from the ambient light.
Quoted Philip who said Bamber would be easily seen from distance on The Sea Wall.
Quoted 9 independent people who said it is easy to get around using stars & the moonlight.
----------
ILB has to be man enough to accept 'night time' would not deter Bamber from cycling for 20 minutes a route he knew.
Is he man enough or a coward?
-
In the last week alone I have -
Confirmed there is no artificial lighting at Goldhanger.
Confirmed there is no artificial lighting at TD.
Confirmed farmers work in the dark.
Confirmed farmers wear helmets with lights.
Posted a link with hundreds of photos of lit up farm land from the ambient light.
Quoted Philip who said Bamber would be easily seen from distance on The Sea Wall.
Quoted 9 independent people who said it is easy to get around using stars & the moonlight.
----------
ILB has to be man enough to accept 'night time' would not deter Bamber from cycling for 20 minutes a route he knew.
Is he man enough or a coward?
I don't believe Jeremy Bamber went via the sea wall.
I don't believe the sea wall route was feasible.
Bamber didn't know the route
Fields and bad terrain
Too dark. Unable to see.
Route surrounded by shrubbery.
Goes through three farms
Populated sea wall ( de'ath).
It's my belief
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Adams Reddit source also is people who using artificial lighting!
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I don't believe Jeremy Bamber went via the sea wall.
I don't believe the sea wall route was feasible.
Bamber didn't know the route
Fields and bad terrain
Too dark. Unable to see.
Route surrounded by shrubbery.
Goes through three farms
Populated sea wall ( de'ath).
It's my belief
Will address each point.
You have the right to believe he drove.
Bamber knew the route for years. Or could learn it.
Good terrain. Farm tracks around fields. Lots of sources supplied.
Good light. Lots of sources supplied.
No shrubbery.
Prosecution route goes through one farm - Wyke Farm. Another route available.
Bamber's cycle ride very remote. No one there at dark.
Your belief is your choice. But your stance that the prosecution route is a 'non starter' does you no credit.
-
According to CAL's book, the bike was new (although it could have been second hand). So if brand new, I'd imagine it came with a dynamo or something similar. Not sure though.
But he could have hand held a conventional torch, or taped it to the bike. Or the bike may have come with conventional lights already installed.
There was enough moonlight to do the whole thing, and the moonlight would have made things easier, but I'd recommend using a torch. If you are cycling at night on off road tracks (as I often do), you need a little bit of light just to light up the section of road in front of you. And I'm talking just 2 or 3 feet.
He would only have needed a trickle of light from a torch in the darkness to allow him to see 5 feet in front of the bike.
However he did it, it was a relatively easy thing to do. Only a rabid Bamber supporter would falsely claim that it was impossible.
Not that any of this matters. This is a legally watertight issue, that cannot be legally challenged. It would never count as new evidence. Also, to claim that it was impossible to complete in darkness with a bike and a torch, on a sufficiently moonlit night, is not capable of belief. People cross the channel with less.
Just a quick search on google gave me the link below...but I can confirm, on the night that Jeremy Bamber murdered his entire family, there was enough moonlight to cycle to WHF and back. Fact.
These posts below talk about the full moon giving as much light as a streetlight. On the night Jeremy Bamber murdered his family, it was something like 68%. Not the luxury of 100% moon, but good enough.
https://new.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/4yewtb/does_moonlight_really_give_enough_visibility_to/
The thing is, even when there is no moon, there us still some light around. It's never pitch black.
Do you believe everything you read?
A full Moon gives out nothing like as much light as a streetlight something like 100x less.
I say Bamber would have walked, ILB says he would have driven we are are not saying the trip was impossible.
The question I have for you is Bamber could have walked / jogged somewhere between 4 to 6 miles per hour. What speed could he cycle at on roughish terrain in the dark? if it's much less than 10 mph he might as well go on foot.
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Will address each point.
You have the right to believe he drove.
Bamber knew the route for years. Or could learn it.
Good terrain. Farm tracks around fields. Lots of sources supplied.
Good light. Lots of sources supplied.
No shrubbery.
Prosecution route goes through one farm - Wyke Farm. Another route available.
Bamber's cycle ride very remote. No one there at dark.
Your belief is your choice. But your stance that the prosecution route is a 'non starter' does you no credit.
I think it was a none starter.
You have your opinion, and I have mine.
What other route?
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Bamber denied he knew the route.
Source provided.
Obviously you can say " it's obvious he didn't " but theres also the possibility he didn't know it
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You're an absolute liar regarding lots of sources supplied!
The only source you provided was GG, who used artificial light and took his blog down once challenged.
Couples in Surrey, Americans on Reddit, and Christmas trees and cartoon images are not valid sources.
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I could literally go on the net now and find various sources of people who have struggled to cycle at night. Through fields and unlit tracks
But what's the point when common sense dictates that anyway!
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Do you believe everything you read?
A full Moon gives out nothing like as much light as a streetlight something like 100x less.
I say Bamber would have walked, ILB says he would have driven we are are not saying the trip was impossible.
The question I have for you is Bamber could have walked / jogged somewhere between 4 to 6 miles per hour. What speed could he cycle at on roughish terrain in the dark? if it's much less than 10 mph he might as well go on foot.
Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night? I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.
I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it. I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.
Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you. It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon. You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.
But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark. Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.
As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour. On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.
The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled. Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.
Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated. If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that. If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was. And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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I could literally go on the net now and find various sources of people who have struggled to cycle at night. Through fields and unlit tracks
But what's the point when common sense dictates that anyway!
Please provide the sources.
You should have provided them before.
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Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night? I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.
I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it. I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.
Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you. It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon. You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.
But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark. Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.
As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour. On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.
The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled. Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.
Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated. If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that. If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was. And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Yes cycling is much quicker than walking. I do both.
A 25 minute walk I cycle in 5 minutes & that is cycling at my own pace.
That is 80% quicker and easier.
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Obviously people like Jeremy, myself and Mike will be much more untrustworthy of the police as we have all had our lifes wrecked by the authorities.
But that doesn't skewer my views.
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Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night? I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.
I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it. I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.
Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you. It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon. You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.
But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark. Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.
As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour. On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.
The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled. Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.
Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated. If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that. If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was. And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Thank you killing eve.
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It is a scientific fact that humans have vision in outside darkness.
Not enough to read or define colours. But enough to move around.
How much vision depends on various factors.
-
We do know about Bamber's route -
It is in the open.
Bamber was brought up, lived and worked in villages with no artificial lighting.
Bamber knew the route.
Bamber had good eyesight in 1985.
Bamber would farm the land in darkness.
I am waiting for Killingeve's source that the moon was at 68% on the night. Obviously that percentage and other factors above would result in very good vision.
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I don't believe Bamber would have made a big effort to get extra lighting for his cycle ride.
If there was a torch at WHF or Goldhanger, or one of June's other bikes had a light, then he may have used these.
If he used a helmet with a light for farming, he could use that.
Otherwise he would just cycle using his area knowledge, fitness & motivation. Using the ambient light.
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I'm not buying the gish gash technique.
But it's a valiant effort.
You can firefight it as much as you like with pointless sources.
-
Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night? I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.
I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it. I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.
Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you. It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon. You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.
But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark. Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.
As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour. On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.
The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled. Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.
Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated. If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that. If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was. And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
I rarely cycle but often work all through the night, so I don't need to be told how much light the Moon gives out. To be fair to you my eyes don't become night adapted as I am using torches etc.
This would also apply to Bamber, he would have jumped out of the kitchen window and his eyes would have taken a while to become night adapted.
I have been speaking to very keen cyclists at work, asking them about cycling with no lights in the country side. To be honest they look at me like I am mad and laugh.
We need to be very careful on time of year and the time of day, makes a big difference.
The only times I have almost not needed a torch are in places of heavy light pollution and low cloud cover.
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Yes cycling is much quicker than walking. I do both.
A 25 minute walk I cycle in 5 minutes & that is cycling at my own pace.
That is 80% quicker and easier.
I just look at the numbers a fast walk is around 4mph, jogging takes that up to 6mph.
Cycling would easily beat this but I don't believe you would achieve even 10mph in total darkness.
Cycling is not 5 times faster than walking, unless you are doing 20mph and no chance of doing this in the dark on rough terrain.
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We do know about Bamber's route -
It is in the open.
Bamber was brought up, lived and worked in villages with no artificial lighting.
Bamber knew the route.
Bamber had good eyesight in 1985.
Bamber would farm the land in darkness.
I am waiting for Killingeve's source that the moon was at 68% on the night. Obviously that percentage and other factors above would result in very good vision.
I think that was my post I said it was 65% but low in the sky? Killingeve said the Moon was three quarters that night.
What you need to remember is that there is a big difference between a full Moon and say a half Moon because of the direction of light from the Sun. So you cannot take the relative areas of the phase the difference could be 5 or 6 times less than what you would expect
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I just look at the numbers a fast walk is around 4mph, jogging takes that up to 6mph.
Cycling would easily beat this but I don't believe you would achieve even 10mph in total darkness.
Cycling is not 5 times faster than walking, unless you are doing 20mph and no chance of doing this in the dark on rough terrain.
Believe he would have built up a good pace. If he wanted to.
There was no traffic or traffic lights. Good, wide and flat terrain.
The only obstacles were two waist high styles.
The Sea Wall journey was 4.2 miles. Bamber told Julie he thought it would take 15 minutes.
To walk The Sea Wall route would take well over 1 hour. It would be very tiring.
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The only way he would choose walking over cycling is if there was a direct straight line route across fields.
This would have to take less than 20 minutes. Otherwise cycling is a quicker and less tiring option.
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Believe he would have built up a good pace. If he wanted to.
There was no traffic or traffic lights. Good, wide and flat terrain.
The only obstacles were two waist high styles.
The Sea Wall journey was 4.2 miles. Bamber told Julie he thought it would take 15 minutes.
To walk The Sea Wall route would take well over 1 hour. It would be very tiring.
If on foot you would not go via the sea wall, but a young fit guy I would expect to to do the sea wall route in under a hour, not much longer anyway.
If Bamber cycles the route in 15 minutes he would have to average 17 miles per hour totally impossible in the dark. This is 8 metres per second no way sorry.
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Walking in a straight line is 2.1 miles.
That is going across 12 fields.
Doubtful all those fields would be accessible to walk over. While others would not be ideal to walk on.
So a generous estimate is walking would be 2.7 miles.
Quicker and less tiring to cycle.
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Walking in a straight line is 2.1 miles.
That is going across 12 fields.
Doubtful all those fields would be accessible to walk over.
So a generous estimate is walking would be 2.7 miles.
Quicker and less tiring to cycle.
I agree quicker but I suspect not by much, much safer to take a more direct route on foot following hedge lines etc.
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I agree quicker but I suspect not by much, much safer to take a more direct route on foot following hedge lines etc.
Quicker and less tiring.
Safeness is the same. Cycling or walking avoids all properties.
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'According to data gathered in a 2019 scientific study, it takes the average person 15-22 minutes to walk one mile.'
---------
Walking 2.7 miles would take between 40 minutes to 1 hour.
This is being generous, as some of the field terrain would slow him down.
There and back, very tiring and time consuming.
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So easier to drive...
-
So easier to drive...
I agree!
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My nearest train station is 0.7 miles away.
Takes over 15 minutes to walk there on pavements and I'm a quick walker.
I hate doing it & now cycle there. Even when suited & booted. Previously used to bus it there although it cost money.
Walking there 4 times (2.8 miles) would take over an hour and be very tiring. Even more so over fields.
Can understand Bamber not wanting to walk that distance twice in the space of 3 hours.
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Cycling 4.2 miles for 20 minutes on good flat terrain, at your own pace would not be tiring at all.
I do it often enough.
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So easier to drive...
Easy to drive
Easy to cycle
Easy to walk.
Each one comes with its own pros and cons.
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Easy to drive
Easy to cycle
Easy to walk.
Each one comes with its own pros and cons.
Physically not easy to walk. Or quick.
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Bamber would need to be physically and mentally alert. For 15 hours.
Lots of work to do before, during and after the massacre.
Spending over an hour walking 2.7 miles across fields will tire him out. And he hasn't even got inside WHF yet!
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Hopefully Rob will retract from his long term view that Bamber walked. Believe he is the only person who believes this.
He said 2 days ago cycling 'is not impossible' which is a start!
He does not believe Bamber would use his own car to drive.
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No cons to driving.
To suggest people are window watching at 2am is stupid
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I think that was my post I said it was 65% but low in the sky? Killingeve said the Moon was three quarters that night.
What you need to remember is that there is a big difference between a full Moon and say a half Moon because of the direction of light from the Sun. So you cannot take the relative areas of the phase the difference could be 5 or 6 times less than what you would expect
65%, 68% or three quarters.
This together with stars in an open area will create good night vision for Bamber.
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Biggest risk is the car breaking down on the way back.
If that happens he is fucked.
But doubtful brand new astra.
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No cons to driving.
To suggest people are window watching at 2am is stupid
Never suggested window watching.
Said awake people on Head Street may look outside there window when hearing a car start up or arrive back. As it would not be a common event at 2am.
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Never suggested window watching.
Said awake people on Head Street may look outside there window when hearing a car start up or arrive back. As it would not be a common event at 2am.
Van and car thefts happen mostly at night.
The thief knowing that the owner will more than likely be asleep.
The roads are deserted mostly at that time apart from motorways
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No cons to driving.
To suggest people are window watching at 2am is stupid
Lots of cons.
But appreciate cycling for 20 minutes or getting in through a bathroom window for 500k+ is too much work for you.
No car - no attempt.
No unbolted door - abort & go home.
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500 people not seeing Bamber means EP had to get creative.
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Lots of cons.
But appreciate cycling for 20 minutes or getting in through a bathroom window for 500k+ is too much work for you.
No car - no attempt.
No unbolted door - abort & go home.
He did have a car.
A brand new vauxhall astra.
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500 people not seeing Bamber means EP had to get creative.
Very much so.
And Bamber walking 5.4 miles across fields was a big 'no'.
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Very much so.
And Bamber walking 5.4 miles across fields was a big 'no'.
Creative doesn't mean true.
But fair play, a jury love a story.
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He did have a car.
A brand new vauxhall astra.
What do you think Bamber would have done if he had no car?
His time was limited as Sheila was leaving WHF soon.
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What do you think Bamber would have done if he had no car?
His time was limited as Sheila was leaving soon.
No idea, the fact is he did have one.
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Don't think he would have got a taxi.
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No idea, the fact is he did have one.
Do you agree spending over 2 hours walking 5.4 miles across fields would be too tiring and time consuming?
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Easy to drive
Easy to cycle
Easy to walk.
Each one comes with its own pros and cons.
Cons of walking:
More than a 2 hour round trip.
At least a 5.4 mile round trip.
Massive gap between phone calls. If they could be traced.
Walking across difficult terrain.
Will be very tired before and after massacre.
Pros:
Avoids properties.
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Easy to drive
Easy to cycle
Easy to walk.
Each one comes with its own pros and cons.
Cons of driving:
Goes past at least 45 properties.
Goes past at least 500 people.
Goes past potential security cameras.
Head Street is very enclosed. Awake residents will hear a vehicle.
Head Street very enclosed. Residents would be able to identify Bamber's vehicle as the moving vehicle.
Car may break down.
Will have to walk up Pages Lane.
Pros:
Not as physically tiring as walking.
Much quicker than walking.
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Easy to drive
Easy to cycle
Easy to walk.
Each one comes with its own pros and cons.
Cons of cycling:
Could get a puncture.
Pros of cycling:
Quick.
Uses minimal energy.
Silent.
Goes past one/no properties.
Off the main roads.
Good terrain compared to walking over fields.
Would have a plan B in unlikely event bike does get a puncture
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The cycling pros/cons relate to The Sea Wall route.
Things such as uneven surface, insects & waist high styles I do not believe are worthy of being included as a 'con'.
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Do you agree spending over 2 hours walking 5.4 miles across fields would be too tiring and time consuming?
He probably walked for 70 minutes. https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
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He probably walked for 70 minutes. https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle
That's 140 minutes of walking. Across fields.
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That's an 140 minutes of walking. Across fields.
It's possible, if the Recovery television programme finished at 11pm. It's smoke and mirrors, as the main point being lost is that Jeremy Bamber has no alibi for the period in question.
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It's possible, if the Recovery television programme finished at 11pm. It's smoke and mirrors, as the main point being lost is that Jeremy Bamber has no alibi for the period in question.
Why do you think he brought the bike over just before the massacre?
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Why do you think he brought the bike over just before the massacre?
He probably hadn't decided fully whether or how to proceed. Remember he told Julie: "It's now or never." The tragedy is it could have been never.
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He probably hadn't decided fully whether or how to proceed. Remember he told Julie: "It's now or never." The tragedy is it could have been never.
He would be gutted if he walked it & the bike has since been such a major plank in the prosecution case.
His feet would have been aching for hours afterwards.
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As said before I don't know how Wilkinson could walk The Sea Wall route in 70 mins, then only manage to cycle it in 35 minutes.
He said it was good, level terrain.
Suspect Wilkinson was making notes as he cycled.
Bamber's estimation of 15 minutes is more accurate.
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Do you agree spending over 2 hours walking 5.4 miles across fields would be too tiring and time consuming?
Think both walking and cycling are pissing about.
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Think both walking and cycling are pissing about.
Agree with walking.
Don't believe Bamber's 15 minute estimation of cycling would be considered too much 'pissing about' by him.
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Agree with walking.
Don't believe Bamber's 15 minute estimation of cycling would be considered too much 'pissing about' by him.
As said I believe he drove.
Don't think nobody would have seen him.
I don't think he was worried about even been seen or it even entered his thought process
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65%, 68% or three quarters.
This together with stars in an open area will create good night vision for Bamber.
As I posted before a 65% Moon phase does not provide 65% of the illumination provided by a full Moon because the direction of light hitting the Moon is at a different angle.
You would get very little help from the stars.
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A guy who does something like this is a natural risk taker.
If you believe he's gulity, elements of his behaviour post massacre are risky, in the sense of appearing gulity, selling off stuff, callously putting the dog down " cos it will knacker my stereo " selling pictures of Shelia to the sun, drinking benders, drug benders, all in view of the police.
After the crime if gulity he didn't try to cover his tracks, " he was like fuck it, it's time to party, he apparently even said" right that's it times up" after his dying swan funeral act.
And to tell a woman of what he's done when he's playing around on the side with other women , and he's planning to leave her confirms. Shows his " recklessness" but the car journey isn't " reckless"
There's no way he wouldn't drive through fear of being seen.
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The neighbour who saw Jeremys car outside his house will be telling the truth. However let's say the neighbour went to bed at midnight, they wouldn't have been none the wiser if he set off at 2am
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The neighbour who saw Jeremys car outside his house will be telling the truth. However let's say the neighbour went to bed at midnight, they wouldn't have been none the wiser if he set off at 2am
But there are other neighbours on Head Street, surely? I live in a village and everyone knows everyone else's business. It's just a fact of life. Ironically it keeps crime very low.
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The neighbour who saw Jeremys car outside his house will be telling the truth. However let's say the neighbour went to bed at midnight, they wouldn't have been none the wiser if he set off at 2am
Have you got a source about this neighbour?
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But there are other neighbours on Head Street, surely? I live in a village and everyone knows everyone else's business. It's just a fact of life. Ironically it keeps crime very low.
There are other properties.
I feel confident that if I got in my van now which I am doing shortly to pick a takeaway up, I will drive back without being seen. And I live in a city.
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A guy who does something like this is a natural risk taker.
If you believe he's gulity, elements of his behaviour post massacre are risky, in the sense of appearing gulity, selling off stuff, callously putting the dog down " cos it will knacker my stereo " selling pictures of Shelia to the sun, drinking benders, drug benders, all in view of the police.
After the crime if gulity he didn't try to cover his tracks, " he was like fuck it, it's time to party, he apparently even said" right that's it times up" after his dying swan funeral act.
And to tell a woman of what he's done when he's playing around on the side with other women , and he's planning to leave her confirms. Shows his " recklessness" but the car journey isn't " reckless"
There's no way he wouldn't drive through fear of being seen.
It was arrogant behaviour. Did he believe it was risky? He told Julie it was the "perfect crime." In his eyes she had nothing on him, until it slowly dawned on him she was going to be a problem.
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Have you got a source about this neighbour?
It's in Appendix 1 of the CAL book.
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Have you got a source about this neighbour?
My apologies it wasn't a neighbour, it was a guy who knew Jeremy. He recalls seeing his vehicle outside his property.
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As I posted before a 65% Moon phase does not provide 65% of the illumination provided by a full Moon because the direction of light hitting the Moon is at a different angle.
You would get very little help from the stars.
All getting technical.
Moonlight.
Stars.
Open area.
Good terrain.
Level terrain.
Passing no/one properties.
Knowing the route.
Used to living/working without artificial lighting.
Physically fit.
Short cycle ride.
Highly motivated.
----------
What the frig more did Bamber need?
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All getting technical.
Moonlight.
Stars.
Open area.
Good terrain.
Level terrain.
Passing no/one properties.
Knowing the route.
Used to living/working without artificial lighting.
Physically fit.
Short cycle ride.
Highly motivated.
----------
What the frig more did Bamber need?
Just best to agree to disagree.
I am visiting it in may.
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My apologies it wasn't a neighbour, it was a guy who knew Jeremy. He recalls seeing his vehicle outside his property.
Why would he remember that? He wouldn't have even been asked until weeks later. I can imagine that he may have looked on the night after the murders, because he would have had reason - the whole village would have been talking about the Bambers but the previous night - don't buy it!
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Would love to replicate Jeremy's supposed journey but very risky at 2am and not sure if I could get a hotel.
A day time stroll the same as Wilkinson doesn't do it justice
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Why would he remember that? He wouldn't have even been asked until weeks later. I can imagine that he may have looked on the night after the murders, because he would have had reason - the whole village would have been talking about the Bambers but the previous night - don't buy it!
It a source from CAL.
In fairness I believe it's true. It's a bloke who drank in chequers who knew Jeremy.
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It a source from CAL.
In fairness I believe it's true. It's a bloke who drank in chequers who knew Jeremy.
It is believable but does not mean much.
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It is believable but does not mean much.
I don't believe it does myself.
Even if a neighbour had seen his car, they more than likely would have gone to bed and would have been dead to the world by the time Jeremy set off
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It was arrogant behaviour. Did he believe it was risky? He told Julie it was the "perfect crime." In his eyes she had nothing on him, until it slowly dawned on him she was going to be a problem.
I don't think he was even worried when she went to the police ( from a gulit stance )
Doesn't seem flustered from the interview transcripts, many consider him evasive, but he remains fairly cool and confident throughout. Heavily riding on the " I left her so she made up bullshit agenda "
He attempted to send Julie a letter with sarcastic overtones " hi stinker"
Even when arrested at Dover weeks later and charged, he was all smiles
Even through the trial he was apparently very confident, Edmund Lawson QC recalling him discussing his prospective newspaper deal as the jury were deliberating, It's obvious he thought he was getting a not guilty.
I think reality only hit home the first time when he would have been in the holding cell after being found gulity and given life with a 25 year recommendation.A source saying he broke down screaming " no no no "
But even then by all accounts he regained composure quickly, and told Rivlin about his intention to appeal.
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I don't think he was even worried when she went to the police ( from a gulit stance )
Doesn't seem flustered from the interview transcripts, many consider him evasive, but he remains fairly cool and confident throughout. Heavily riding on the " I left her so she made up bullshit agenda "
He attempted to send Julie a letter with sarcastic overtones " hi stinker"
Even when arrested at Dover weeks later and charged, he was all smiles
Even through the trial he was apparently very confident, Edmund Lawson QC recalling him discussing his prospective newspaper deal as the jury were deliberating, It's obvious he thought he was getting a not guilty.
I think reality only hit home the first time when he would have been in the holding cell after being found gulity and given life with a 25 year recommendation.A source saying he broke down screaming " no no no "
But even then by all accounts he regained composure quickly, and told Rivlin about his intention to appeal.
According to my source, the person who escorted him to the cells, he broke down. His words, allegedly, "I will never get out of here now".
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[quote author=Jane link=topic=12141.msg561238#msg561238 date=1713943963
According to my source, the person who escorted him to the cells, he broke down. His words, allegedly, "I will never get out of here now".
You knew an escort officer at Chelmsford ?
[/quote]
Crazy how sentencing has changed over the years
JB got life with a minimum of 25 years for five victims. Peter Sutcliffe got a min of 30 years some years before for the murder of 13 women! ( Both later changed to whole life)
These days people can get a whole life tariff for a single victim.Of longer minimum tariffs than both JB and Sutcliffe got for a single victim
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[quote author=Jane link=topic=12141.msg561238#msg561238 date=1713943963
According to my source, the person who escorted him to the cells, he broke down. His words, allegedly, "I will never get out of here now".
You knew an escort officer at Chelmsford ?
Crazy how sentencing has changed over the years
JB got life with a minimum of 25 years for five victims. Peter Sutcliffe got a min of 30 years some years before for the murder of 13 women! ( Both later changed to whole life)
These days people can get a whole life tariff for a single victim.Of longer minimum tariffs than both JB and Sutcliffe got for a single victim
Like so many of those associated with the case, she's now, well into her 90s. At the time she was some sort of Court official. I believe, in training as a probation officer
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4983.0.html
Wil have to dismiss Rob's theory that Bamber walked for the following reasons -
Walking the Sea Wall route took Wilkinson 70 minutes.
Walking the 2 routes via Brook House Farm took 45 and 58 minutes.
Walking via Brook House farm passes either 45 or over 100 properties. Potential security cameras and people.
Wilkinson said there is not a direct walking route across fields.
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Wilkinson attempted a more direct walking route but without success -
'The paths go directly across ploughed fields or cultivated crops. Or peter out on the banks of small streams or irrigation canals'.
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If Bamber wanted to use one of the 2 Brook House Farm routes, he would cycle.
The terrain was roads so perfect for cycling.
A lot quicker, easier & less tiring than walking.
Also spends less time outside so less chance of being seen.
The down side is he is passing multiple properties, people & potential security cameras.
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If he wanted to take The Sea Wall route, he would cycle. The terrain was fine for that.
Much quicker, easier and less tiring than walking
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In summary walking was either -
Too long.
Too tiring.
Too risky.
Direct route terrain not negotiable.
Much quicker, easier and less tiring to cycle any of the 3 available routes.
A combination of the above.
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In summary walking was either -
Too long.
Too tiring.
Too risky.
Direct route terrain not negotiable.
Much quicker, easier and less tiring to cycle any of the 3 available routes.
A combination of the above.
It's not like the bike was top of the range mountain bike. I doubt they even existed in 1985. It was either BMX, racers, or the bike in question. None of which would be suitable (bar possibly, a good BMX). The bike in question was pretty poor if I remember correctly.
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The routes walking/cycling -
The Sea Wall:
70 minutes walking.
35 minutes cycling.
Brook House Farm. Route 1.
58 minutes walking.
22 minutes cycling.
Brook House Farm. Route 2.
45 minutes walking.
16 minutes cycling.
Across fields:
Not possible to walk or cycle.
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Personally believe cycling at a good pace would knock at least 70% off the walking times.
Meaning the cycle times would be -
21 minutes - The Sea Wall.
18 minutes - BHF route one.
14 minutes - BHF route two.
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Wilkinson would have been monitoring and taking notes.
All of these cycle rides would result in minimal energy being used. Unlike walking. Bamber needed lots of energy to get through the next 15 hours.
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Adam posting the same rhetoric with a view to goad
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Adam posting the same rhetoric with a view to goad
I have dismissed Rob's walking option. Using times given by Wilkinson.
Please only contribute if you have something constructive to say.
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I have dismissed Rob's walking option. Using times given by Wilkinson.
Please only contribute if you have something constructive to say.
We have gone over the sea wall in great detail
You have gone from " he didn't use any lighting" to bike lights, torches, Christmas trees and couples in Surrey.
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Wilkinson said his walks were 'brisk'.
Doubtful Bamber walking to WHF & back in quick succession would be brisk.
Therefore doubtful he would be as quick as Wilkinson.
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However I do feel Bamber would have cycled quicker than Wilkinson.
Espesically on the way back when he would be hyped up & wanting to go to the next stage.
Bamber's 15 minute estimation via The Sea Wall is a good one.
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A round trip cycle ride of 30 minutes is a lot better than a walk of 140+ minutes.
And less tiring!
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We have gone over the sea wall in great detail
You have gone from " he didn't use any lighting" to bike lights, torches, Christmas trees and couples in Surrey.
Thanks ILB.
Glad my tax is funding the bedsit payments.
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Thanks ILB.
Glad my tax is funding the bedsit payments.
Thanks Adam.
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I will ask Rob to retract when he is next on line.
No point spending 140+ minutes on a round trip walking The Sea Wall route, when it can be cycled in 30 minutes.
No point spending 90 -116+ minutes on a round trip walk of either of the 2 Brook House Farm routes. When it can be cycled in 18 & 14 minutes. These routes don't even avoid properties.
Walking across fields is not possible.
I suspect Rob will dig in.
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I will ask Rob to retract when he is next on line.
No point spending 140+ minutes on a round trip walking The Sea Wall route, when it can be cycled in 30 minutes.
No point spending 90 -116+ minutes on a round trip walk of either of the 2 Brook House Farm routes. When it can be cycled in 18 & 14 minutes. These routes don't even avoid properties.
Walking across fields is not possible.
I suspect Rob will dig in.
Hello Adam I have been away for a few days, digging in, retract what is all this?
I have not yet found a cyclist who would cycle full pelt over rough tracks in total darkness. I have not given up yet some of the chaps have really expensive bikes no chucking these over styles! I hope Kk unloads all his astro gear before he chucks his bike over!
I hope I have not got to wade through a load of poisoned posts have I to find out what I have missed?
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Hello Adam I have been away for a few days, digging in, retract what is all this?
I have not yet found a cyclist who would cycle full pelt over rough tracks in total darkness. I have not given up yet some of the chaps have really expensive bikes no chucking these over styles! I hope Kk unloads all his astro gear before he chucks his bike over!
I hope I have not got to wade through a load of poisoned posts have I to find out what I have missed?
Please read the post you have just replied to. Together with the previous 2 pages.
Walking across fields is not an option.
The other 3 routes will take too long to walk. Two of them pass multiple properties. Cycling would be the only option.
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Please read the post you have just replied to. Together with the previous 2 pages.
Walking across fields is not an option.
The other 3 routes will take too long to walk. Two of them pass multiple properties. Cycling would be the only option.
Ah I see that Wilkinson took 30 minutes to cycle the sea wall route and that was in daylight.
I bet you choked on your tea when you read that Adam?
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Ah I see that Wilkinson took 30 minutes to cycle the sea wall route and that was in daylight.
I bet you choked on your tea when you read that Adam?
Knew you would dig in.
Nine minutes per mile is too slow on good level terrain. Bamber's estimation of 15 minutes is more accurate. Wilkinson must have been cycling slowly and making notes.
Anyway, walking has been ruled out.
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Knew you would dig in.
Nine minutes per mile is too slow on good level terrain. Bamber's estimation of 15 minutes is more accurate. Wilkinson must have been cycling slowly and making notes.
Anyway, walking has been ruled out.
So has cycling now, he has to to the trip in 20 minutes.
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So has cycling now, he has to to the trip in 20 minutes.
Bamber cycled The Sea Wall. Which would have taken 15-20 minutes.
Walking it would take 70+ minutes and be too tiring.
He couldn't walk across the fields.
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Knew you would dig in.
Nine minutes per mile is too slow on good level terrain. Bamber's estimation of 15 minutes is more accurate. Wilkinson must have been cycling slowly and making notes.
Anyway, walking has been ruled out.
The average person cycles at approx 12 miles per hour, that is in daylight on smooth surfaces.
So at night on rough terrain with no lights would be at lot less than 10 mph.
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Bamber cycled The Sea Wall. Which would have taken 15-20 minutes.
Walking it would take 70+ minutes and be too tiring.
He couldn't walk across the fields.
Why? I walk across fields when footpaths have been ploughed over. A problem for a bike no problem if walking.
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The average person cycles at approx 12 miles per hour, that is in daylight on smooth surfaces.
So at night on rough terrain with no lights would be at lot less than 10 mph.
The last 2 pages has been dismissing your walking theory.
Walking The Sea Wall would take too long and be too tiring.
Walking across fields was not possible.
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The last 2 pages has been dismissing your walking theory.
Walking The Sea Wall would take too long and be too tiring.
Walking across fields was not possible.
Maybe too long but not too tiring, 4 miles walking is nothing.
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Maybe too long but not too tiring, 4 miles walking is nothing.
4.2 miles. 8.4 miles round trip.
Too long and tiring.
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Walking is too long and pissing about. Ditto cycling through fields in complete darkness. Absolutely ridiculous.
Seems the car was the best bet. The biggest problem it breaking down on the way back.
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Agree he could walk it, it is a possiblity but I don't believe he personally did.
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4.2 miles. 8.4 miles round trip.
Too long and tiring.
Walk there cycle the roads back is an option.
He could have took the bike back to WHF when on the way to work either the Monday or Tuesday morning if what Julie says is right reference seeing it on the forth
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Walk there cycle the roads back is an option.
He could have took the bike back to WHF when on the way to work either the Monday or Tuesday morning if what Julie says is right reference seeing it on the forth
Why would he do that? Makes no sense.
He brought the bike to Goldhanger pre massacre for one reason.
To cycle there and back. Without being seen & without expending energy
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Agree he could walk it, it is a possiblity but I don't believe he personally did.
Too far, long and tiring to walk.
The only people who would walk over 90- 140 minutes with a short break half way through would be hikers who enjoy walking & go on walking day trips.
Walking either of the 2 Brook House Farm routes doesn't avoid properties, people or security cameras. It goes along roads so if he was going that way he would cycle.
Bamber thought The Sea Wall route could be cycled in 15 minutes. So he's not going to spend 140+ minutes walking 8.4 miles there and back.
Walking across fields was not possible.
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Why would he do that? Makes no sense.
He brought the bike to Goldhanger pre massacre for one reason.
To cycle there and back. Without being seen & without expending energy
Did you ask him ?
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Too far, long and tiring to walk.
The only people who would walk over 90- 140 minutes with a short break half way through would be hikers who enjoy walking & go on walking day trips.
Walking either of the 2 Brook House Farm routes doesn't avoid properties, people or security cameras. It goes along roads so if he was going that way he would cycle.
Bamber thought The Sea Wall route could be cycled in 15 minutes. So he's not going to spend 140+ minutes walking 8.4 miles there and back.
Walking across fields was not possible.
" Avoid properties "
Non sensical, it was 2am
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" Avoid properties "
Non sensical, it was 2am
Depends on a persons approach.
You wouldn't cycle for 20 minutes or go in through the bathroom window as it would be too much effort for 500k+.
The prosecution believe he did both.
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Depends on a persons approach.
You wouldn't cycle for 20 minutes or go in through the bathroom window as it would be too much effort for 500k+.
The prosecution believe he did both.
I think if he did it he drove.
Don't think anybody was window watching at 2am
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Bamber may have had to drive through Tollshunt D'arcy to get onto Pages Lane.
Wilkinson said the track going past Brook House Farm leading onto the B1023 & Pages Lane was easy for a bike.
Whether it was suitable for a car is another matter.
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He probably just went the route via car the way he went to work on a daily basis.
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If he was paranoid at all he could park on pages lane and saunter down
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He probably just went the route via car the way he went to work on a daily basis.
If it was through Goldhanger and Tollshunt D'arcy I'm not surprised over 500 people were interviewed.
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If he was paranoid at all he could park on pages lane and saunter down
Seems he would have to drive through TD to get to Pages Lane.
Then walk down Pages Lane. Avoiding the other properties on Pages Lane.
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The distance from the beginning of Pages Lane (from the B1023) to the properties where the farm workers worked is 322 metres.
Assume Bamber would park around 200 metres from these properties. Then walk.
If he wanted to avoid walking past these properties, he would have to leave Pages Lane and walk across a field which leads to the side of WHF. This would increase the walking distance.
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Cycling the prosecution route would give the option of cycling right up to WHF.
He would cycle past Wyke Farm on Pages Lane. Total distance 150 metres.
This would be silently and quickly. Pages Lane has no street lighting.
The building where there are cars looks to be around 50 metres wide. This is quite a long way from Pages Lane.
The other buildings look like barns & are partially covered by trees.
He would not cycle past the WHF properties where the farm workers lived.
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Driving the route would put him on pages lane. He could park the car and saunter down.
The roads obviously cycling wise would be pitch black, although marginally better than the none starter sea wall scenario.
A sixteen minute low risk drive.
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Driving the route would put him on pages lane. He could park the car and saunter down.
The roads obviously cycling wise would be pitch black, although marginally better than the none starter sea wall scenario.
A sixteen minute low risk drive.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt before.
I assumed you didn't have the capacity to work out people have vision at night.
Now me & Killingeve have provided hundreds of independent sources that people have vision at night, it can only be assumed you are being a disruptive poster again.
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'Saunter' 200 yards down Pages Lane. Walking across fields.
After driving past 500 people and security cameras in Goldhanger and Tollshunt D'arcy.
No time or energy saved but a massive risk.
-
Good cars those astras reliable drives
16 minute round trip easy.
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Good cars those astras reliable drives
16 minute round trip easy.
Quicker to cycle the route he would drive
He would not have to cycle through TD or walk 200 metres.
If he's going to cycle he might as well spend an extra 5 minutes and avoid all roads.
-
Brand new car as well, he had only wrote the previous month's before.
Very reliable.
-
'Saunter' 200 yards down Pages Lane. Walking across fields.
After driving past 500 people and security cameras in Goldhanger and Tollshunt D'arcy.
No time or energy saved but a massive risk.
The lane from the road leads direct to the farm.
The lane from the sea wall goes through fields
Bamber and RB confirming so.
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The lane from the road leads direct to the farm.
The lane from the sea wall goes through fields
Bamber and RB confirming so.
That is something you can confirm on your visit - whether a car can travel past Brook House Farm onto the B1023.
If it's not suitable he would have to drive through TD. Which would explain 500+ people interviewed.
You are the one who says Bamber couldn't cycle along the edge of fields. Now you are saying a car can drive along them.
Wilkinson said this route sections terrain was very good.......for cycling.
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That is something you can confirm on your visit - whether a car can travel past Brook House Farm onto the B1023.
If it's not suitable he would have to drive through TD. Which would explain 500+ people interviewed.
You are the one who says Bamber couldn't cycle along the edge of fields. Now you are saying a car can drive along them.
Wilkinson said this route sections terrain was very good.......for cycling.
Midweek
Deserted roads
No amenities open at that time
People sleeping
Good odds to drive
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The properties on the journey are set far back.
They will not record the road, just the property, in the event they did hae security cameras.
They would not pick up Bambers astra.
And even if in the event they did pick up a car it would be a side view and a positive ID could not be made, they probably would even have trouble guessing the make of the car, Bambers barrister could turn round and say " well that could be anyone "
It was 1985, technology in it's infancy only a personal visual ID of Bamber would suffice.
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Looking again it does look likely that a car could drive along it.
The track adjoins two main roads, the B1026 & B1023.
EP looked at the route as a possible cycle/walking route.
Obviously walking would take too long and be too tiring.
The terrain for cycling the route was so good, a car could make the journey!
CAL said he cycled this route.
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Wilkinson said he cycled the Brook House Farm route in 16 minutes.
So no point in driving it if it was so quick to cycle. Cycling does have advantages.
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One thing that may prevent cars driving past Brook House farm is if it is a private track.
There may be a gate at one or both ends. Stopping it being used as a rat route between two main roads.
This would not stop Bamber cycling it.
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Adam, what is your overall conclusion, regarding the topic of the 'sea wall'?
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Just done a 3D statelite check of the entrance/exit to both sides of the Brook House Farm track. The check won't go down the track.
Neither side had a gate on.
The track looks similar to Pages Lane. Wide and good enough to either drive or cycle down.
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The route via the Brook House farm track is 4524 metres. Which is 2.8 miles.
Cycling it in 16 minutes does seem slow. Considering the terrain for the whole route was good enough for a car, let alone a bike.
Seems Wilkinson cycled The Sea Wall and Brook House Farm routes slowly.
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Just done a 3D statelite check of the entrance/exit to both sides of the Brook House Farm track. The check won't go down the track.
Neither side had a gate on.
The track looks similar to Pages Lane. Wide and good enough to either drive or cycle down.
That's how it looks now, it may have changed since then?
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That's how it looks now, it may have changed since then?
Doubt it. Going by Wilkinson's WS.
The farm track is always likely to be suitable for cars to drive up to Brook House Farm. Similar to Pages Lane for WHF & Wyke Farm.
He did not mention any gates.
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Google maps statelite and google maps 3D does show the Brook House Farm track to be open. So there would be good vision.
The advantage of cycling this route is it is the shortest route.
It is all good to perfect terrain. Head, Church and Maldon road is tarmac roads. The Brook House Farm and Pages Lane tracks are suitable for cars, let alone bikes.
Bamber knew the route as he drove it every day.
He would want to spend as little time as possible travelling. Could cycle it in 12 minutes at 80%+.
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The disadvantage is he would cycle past properties in Goldhanger, Maldon Road & Brook House Farm.
However this would be silently and he would be pretty invisible going quickly on the unlit streets.
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Obviously if he could cycle the Brook House Farm route in 12 minutes, there would be no point driving it.
Still agree with the prosecution that he took the route of least risk - The Sea Wall.
This takes a bit longer but the long gap between phoning Julie & the police shows he did not consider he had big time constraints.
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The walking theory is not credible.
Walking the Sea Wall.
Too long.
Too tiring.
Could cycle it.
Walking the Brook House Farm Route.
Too long.
Too tiring.
Could cycle it.
Walking across fields.
Not possible to walk over the terrain. Source Wilkinson.
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The driving the Brook House Farm route is not credible.
It could be cycled in 12 minutes.
A bike is silent.
A bike will be invisible compared to a car.
Minimal energy used in cycling the route.
A bike can cycle right up to WHF. Unlike a car.
The Brook House Farm route terrain is perfect for cycling. So good a car can drive it.
Minimal/no difference in time between cycling and driving.
The bike getting a puncture can be carried or dumped. Unlike a car.
Bamber knew the cycle route as he drove it to work.
Bamber less likely to be identified on a bike if caught on security camera.
No advantage in driving.
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The walking theory is not credible.
Walking the Sea Wall.
Too long.
Too tiring.
Could cycle it.
Walking the Brook House Farm Route.
Too long.
Too tiring.
Could cycle it.
Walking across fields.
Not possible to walk over the terrain. Source Wilkinson.
Well the walking theory on paper is credible.
Jeremy Bamber had legs and could walk.
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The driving the Brook House Farm route is not credible.
It could be cycled in 12 minutes.
A bike is silent.
A bike will be invisible compared to a car.
Minimal energy used in cycling the route.
A bike can cycle right up to WHF. Unlike a car.
The Brook House Farm route terrain is perfect for cycling. So good a car can drive it.
Minimal/no difference in time between cycling and driving.
The bike getting a puncture can be carried or dumped. Unlike a car.
Bamber knew the cycle route as he drove it to work.
Bamber less likely to be identified on a bike if caught on security camera.
No advantage in driving.
Quicker
Easier
No risk of Identification.
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Too much messing around cycling.
I personally don't think Bamber worried about being seen at all. Never entered his thought process.
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Too much messing around cycling.
I personally don't think Bamber worried about being seen at all. Never entered his thought process.
More messing around driving.
Get in the car. Get out of the car. Walk.
And a lot riskier.
Easier just to cycle for 12 minutes. For the reasons given in reply 1511.
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Quicker
Easier
No risk of Identification.
He would be identified.
If people on Head Street saw him leave or arrive. Or if a security camera could identify the car make.
No easier.
A bit quicker. But 12 minutes of cycling on great terrain is no problem.
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The only credible travel is -
The Sea Wall route.
Brook House Farm route.
Both by bike.
Walking either route or driving the Brook House Farm route are not credible.
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I wonder why CAL said he cycled the Brook House Farm route.
Her book is supposed to be fact based. The prosecution case was that he cycled The Sea Wall.
Maybe Bamber told her he didn't know The Sea Wall route. He couldn't say that about the Brook House Farm route. He drove it every day!
Seems her book was a combination of facts and her opinion. Which contradict each other.
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He would be identified.
If people on Head Street saw him leave or arrive. Or if a security camera could identify the car make.
No easier.
A bit quicker. But 12 minutes of cycling on great terrain is no problem.
The security cameras ( on the event there even way any ) point to the front of the property, driveway garden and road.
On a car going past it will pick up the side view, also it was nighttime so you will just be able to make out the outline of the car.
No visual ID of Bamber, no proof it was Bamber. You can't even distinguish the make of the car, let alone see whose driving it.
Bambers barrister would have shot holes in such a theory in court
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Bamber could simply drive the route he went to work every single day.
Park on pages lane ( middle of the night isolated)
And walk to the farmhouse
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Much of the route to WHF is country roads.
Biggest risk of an ID is a neighbour jumping out of bed and looking out of the window of the sound of a car engine starting.
Which is not feasible, a brand new astra.
A knackered old van, perhaps which is loud.
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De'ath points out the sea wall was populated. At first I didn't believe it would be, but death has the knowledge it was
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Bamber could simply drive the route he went to work every single day.
Park on pages lane ( middle of the night isolated)
And walk to the farmhouse
He could also cycle it.
Silently and invisible compared to a car.
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Much of the route to WHF is country roads.
Biggest risk of an ID is a neighbour jumping out of bed and looking out of the window of the sound of a car engine starting.
Which is not feasible, a brand new astra.
A knackered old van, perhaps which is loud.
The Brook House Farm route is the same route he would drive.
Which is tarmacked roads.
The Brook House Farm track & Pages Lane are wide dirt tracks designed for cars. So easy for bikes.
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Must admit Maldon Road, Brook House Farm Track & Pages Lane are minimal risk.
It is whether Bamber was prepared to risk cycling through Goldhanger.
As it was a one off cycle ride with a massive reward/punishment, suspect he played it safe.
Better safe than sorry!
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The other reason he would play it safe & cycle The Sea Wall route instead of the Brook House Farm route, was because he did not believe he had major time constraints.
The Sea Wall route was a bit longer.
Neither cycle route would expend much energy.
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It's not about time constraints, it's a case of " get in get it done get out "
The longer something of this magnitude goes on, the greater chance of things going wrong or fucking up from his perspective, he's on a mission to kill five people, he isn't renovating a house. One fuck up from his end could result him being caught on the scene.
He would want to minimize the time and get back to goldhanger, not prolong things by unessecary cycle journeys.
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How would he know if any of the farmworkers hadn't seen him?
Wasn't Alan Fraser Bell the Zimbabwe farm worker sleeping in a caravan on the site ? Or close to it
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It's not about time constraints, it's a case of " get in get it done get out "
The longer something of this magnitude goes on, the greater chance of things going wrong or fucking up from his perspective, he's on a mission to kill five people, he isn't renovating a house. One fuck up from his end could result him being caught on the scene.
He would want to minimize the time and get back to goldhanger, not prolong things by unessecary cycle journeys.
Sounds very 'action man'.
You wouldn't even 'get in' unless Nevill and June had left the door unbolted.
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Me and ILB agree on a few things -
The Brook House Farm route could be driven quickly with ease.
The Brook House farm route could be cycled quickly with ease.
The Sea Wall route could be cycled quickly with ease.
Bamber would not walk either of these routes.
Walking across fields was not possible.
---------
We disagree on what route & travel option he used.
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Adam I think you have reached PhD level regarding the sea wall. Not even the answer machine took up this much of your focus.
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Learnt a lot in the last few days.
Walking a more direct route across fields was not possible.
Walking The Sea Wall or Brook House Farm route would take too long and be too tiring.
The Brook House Farm track is suitable for cars and bikes. There is no gate on either side.
The two styles on The Sea Wall are waist high.
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Sounds very 'action man'.
You wouldn't even 'get in' unless Nevill and June had left the door unbolted.
It's common sense
You make it out he is just chilling out
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It's common sense
You make it out he is just chilling out
Do you think Bamber would have climbed through the bathroom window if the door was bolted?
He was highly motivated.
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Do you think Bamber would have climbed through the bathroom window if the door was bolted?
He was highly motivated.
No idea.
He is championing the window heavily in his latest CT submission.
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Do you think Bamber would have climbed through the bathroom window if the door was bolted?
He was highly motivated.
No idea if he did or didn't.
He is championed the window heavily in his ccrc 2021 submission.
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Me and ILB agree on a few things -
The Brook House Farm route could be driven quickly with ease.
The Brook House farm route could be cycled quickly with ease.
The Sea Wall route could be cycled quickly with ease.
Bamber would not walk either of these routes.
Walking across fields was not possible.
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We disagree on what route & travel option he used.
I don't think the sea wall could
De'ath demolished the sea wall theory.
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I don't think the sea wall could
De'ath demolished the sea wall theory.
Of course she did.
A woman that lived in London and had a caravan 5 miles away.
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I don't think the sea wall could
De'ath demolished the sea wall theory.
Are you sure there's an ' between the e and a? Just askin like ???
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Are you sure there's an ' between the e and a? Just askin like ???
It's a capital letter after e'. https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death
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Obviously Bamber cycled The Sea Wall. Quick, easy & avoiding properties.
Hypothetical - If the terrain had made it not possible to cycle this, he had 2 alternatives -
Make the 8.4 mile Sea Wall round trip on foot. Which would have taken at least 140 minutes. This still avoids properties but would be very tiring.
Cycle the Brook House Farm route. This is a round trip of less than 30 minutes & 5.6 miles. The terrain was perfect & he would expend minimal energy. But he does pass properties.
A more direct route of walking across the fields was not possible.
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Are you sure there's an ' between the e and a? Just askin like ???
Couldn't give a fuck to be honest.
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Obviously the sea wall being populated made it a none starter.
Coupled with it being pitch black.
The car being the best practical option.
-
Decent motors the astras
Although I preferred vectras.
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People will go for the quicker easiest option.
No chance of anyone clocking him at 2am.
Appreciate Adam has tried turning a small hamlet into New York city
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Obviously the sea wall being populated made it a none starter.
Coupled with it being pitch black.
The car being the best practical option.
Please don't play the idiot again.
You know there was sufficient lighting in an open area with a 64% moon and stars.
You know the wild pensioner parties at Osea Leisure Park wouldn't branch out 5 miles.
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People will go for the quicker easiest option.
No chance of anyone clocking him at 2am.
Appreciate Adam has tried turning a small hamlet into New York city
It's too risky to use the car. He either walked or cycled.
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It's too risky to use the car. He either walked or cycled.
No benefit in driving the Brook House Farm route.
He could cycle it in 12 minutes!
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Don't know why people think using a car at 2am in rural Essex is " risky "
I could literally drive down my street now in my van and probably not be seen.
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No one is going to be awoken by a car engine or a car driving away.
No one is going to be window watching at 2am
Nobody is going to ID Bamber in his car whether they are a pedestrian or in a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction
Security cameras will not give a positive visual ID
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No one is going to be awoken by a car engine or a car driving away.
No one is going to be window watching at 2am
Nobody is going to ID Bamber in his car whether they are a pedestrian or in a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction
Security cameras will not give a positive visual ID
I'm looking at the street view here: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/147322028#/streetView?channel=RES_BUY
I think it's too risky, whilst the alternatives are less so.
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No one is going to be awoken by a car engine or a car driving away.
No one is going to be window watching at 2am
Nobody is going to ID Bamber in his car whether they are a pedestrian or in a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction
Security cameras will not give a positive visual ID
Security cameras could ID the vehicle make. Too much of a coincidence if it's an Astra.
Awake residents of Head Street may hear a vehicle and look outside.
As you said, the car breaking down would incriminate him.
If he was going via Brook House Farm, he would cycle. Silent, invisible, 12 minutes, minimal energy, perfect terrain, options if the bike conks out.
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Security cameras could ID the vehicle make. Too much of a coincidence if it's an Astra.
Not feasible, the grainy image will just make the outline of a car
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Security cameras could ID the vehicle make. Too much of a coincidence if it's an Astra.
Awake residents of Head Street may hear a vehicle and look outside.
As you said, the car breaking down would incriminate him.
If he was going via Brook House Farm, he would cycle. Silent, invisible, 12 minutes, minimal energy, perfect terrain, options if the bike conks out.
Agree the car breaking down and he is fucked.
Don't agree that people would be up looking out of the window at am.
Don't believe the turning of an engine would get someone out of bed. It certainly wouldn't me
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https://youtu.be/jJWOymoAlaU?si=zF35paznHKtwBkSc
Mike drives through Tolleshunt D'arcy.
Bamber would have turned right off Maldon Road before getting to TD. To cycle the Brook House Farm (BHF) track.
This reduces the distance by 1661 metres/over 1 mile according to Wilkinson. It also means he is not cycling past multiple properties.
The BHF track is as good as Pages Lane.
Once at the end of the BHF track he arrives on the B1023. Pages Lane is 160 metres to the right.
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Mike drives it in 7 minutes.
Suspect Bamber could cycle it in 12 minutes. His journey would be over 1 mile less.
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Mike drives it in 7 minutes.
Suspect Bamber could cycle it in 12 minutes. His journey would be over 1 mile less.
7 minutes.
Even better
So obviously he drove.
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7 minutes.
Even better
So obviously he drove.
Too risky. No benefit in driving.
Minimal time and energy cycling The Sea Wall or Brook House Farm route. Also silent and invisible.
Bamber bringing the bike over just before the massacre.
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Is there a source that the police interviewed 500 people regarding seeing Bamber drive?
Suspect these would just be the people that lived in Goldhanger & Maldon Road before Tolleshunt D'arcy.
Wilkinson says 579 people lived in Goldhanger.
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'The bike was brought to the house for Julie Mugford to use, so that she could cycle from Goldhanger to Toleshunt D'arcy, leaving the bike at the Red Lion Pub'.
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This is now even less credible.
Considering Mike drove from Goldhanger into the heart of TD in 5 minutes.
Maximum time Bamber would spend away from WHF picking up & dropping off Julie would be 20 minutes. So could be done in his lunch or break time. In the unlikely event he was working when Julie was leaving.
Otherwise Julie would get a taxi or June or Nevill could give her a lift.
-
7 minutes.
Even better
So obviously he drove.
Be a 5 minute drive if Mike drove down the BHF track.
But after collecting June's bike he didn't have to take the huge risk of driving through Goldhanger.
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https://youtu.be/jJWOymoAlaU?si=zF35paznHKtwBkSc
Mike gets to the Brook House Farm track at 4.06.
He drives past it rather than down it. Which would have added 2 minutes to his journey.
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Going by Mike's video and Bamber being a fast driver, the estimated times of driving Julie from Goldhanger to the TD bus station are -
Goldhanger to TD bus station:
5 minutes.
WHF - Goldhanger. Then Goldhanger to TD bus station:
10 minutes.
----------
The 5 minutes is if not working. The 10 minutes is if working at WHF.
Both very comfortable for Jeremy. Whether he was working at WHF or already with Julie.
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The Osea Leisure park is closer to 9, Head Street than WHF.
If he was working there, the driving time to pick up Julie & take her to the TD bus station would be 7-8 minutes.
A taxi from Goldhanger to TD bus garage would be very cheap.
Not credible he would ask his girlfriend who had travelled to see him, to cycle with a suitcase for nearly 3 miles. When it would take him 5-10 minutes to drive her, or she could get a taxi.
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'The bike was brought to the house for Julie Mugford to use, so that she could cycle from Goldhanger to Toleshunt D'arcy, leaving the bike at the Red Lion Pub'.
----------
This is now even less credible.
Considering Mike drove from Goldhanger into the heart of TD in 5 minutes.
Maximum time Bamber would spend away from WHF picking up & dropping off Julie would be 20 minutes. So could be done in his lunch or break time. In the unlikely event he was working when Julie was leaving.
Otherwise Julie would get a taxi or June or Nevill could give her a lift.
I don't think you are in a position to say that seeing as though you didn't know either Bamber or Julie at that time and that you are purely just surmising.
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One thing Mike's video confirms is that the land is level.
This corresponds with Wilkinson's WS, the videos/images of the area & Sea Wall and Google maps 3D.
ILB said Bamber would have to cycle up 'steep inclines' although did not provide a source.
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I don't think you are in a position to say that seeing as though you didn't know either Bamber or Julie at that time and that you are purely just surmising.
He's not going to make Julie cycle nearly 3 miles with a suitcase.
He could drive her to TD bus station in 5 - 10 minutes. Whether he's at WHF, Goldhanger or Osea Leisure Park.
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He's not going to make Julie cycle nearly 3 miles with a suitcase.
He could drive her to TD bus station in 5 - 10 minutes. Whether he's at WHF, Goldhanger or Osea Leisure Park.
He's convicted of five counts of murder for gain
Making a girlfriend use a cycle is very small in comparison !
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He's convicted of five counts of murder for gain
Making a girlfriend use a cycle is very small in comparison !
It is important as he has to give a reason why he brought a bike over 2 days before the massacre.
For Julie to cycle 3 miles holding a suitcase is not that reason.
He could drive her in 5-10 minutes. Or a taxi would take 5 minutes & cost less than £5.00p.
Do you agree the Sea Wall & Brook House farm routes are level terrain?
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The Osea Leisure park is closer to 9, Head Street than WHF.
If he was working there, the driving time to pick up Julie & take her to the TD bus station would be 7-8 minutes.
A taxi from Goldhanger to TD bus garage would be very cheap.
Not credible he would ask his girlfriend who had travelled to see him, to cycle with a suitcase for nearly 3 miles. When it would take him 5-10 minutes to drive her, or she could get a taxi.
Where does Julie say the bike was not for her use Adam?
Where does JB say the bike was for Julie to go home loaded up with cases and bags etc.?
If she was on her own while JB was a work I would have thought it would be quite handy for her to get out and about?
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Where does Julie say the bike was not for her use Adam?
Where does JB say the bike was for Julie to go home loaded up with cases and bags etc.?
If she was on her own while JB was a work I would have thought it would be quite handy for her to get out and about?
She does say he planned to cycle and testified this was via the Sea Wall.
Do you believe Bamber would have risked cycling via Brook House Farm?
This would only take 12 minutes and was on perfect terrain.
He would pass multiple properties in Goldhanger. However it would be late & he would be silent. There is no street lighting.
Walking either of these routes would take too long and be too tiring. Walking across fields was not possible.
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Where does Julie say the bike was not for her use Adam?
Where does JB say the bike was for Julie to go home loaded up with cases and bags etc.?
If she was on her own while JB was a work I would have thought it would be quite handy for her to get out and about?
She never claimed or mentioned that Jeremys version of events of him getting the bike for her was bollocks.
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She never claimed or mentioned that Jeremys version of events of him getting the bike for her was bollocks.
Thanks ILB I thought I must have missed her saying this.
Time for Adam to put this to bed!
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She never claimed or mentioned that Jeremys version of events of him getting the bike for her was bollocks.
Don't understand that.
Her WS says he planned to cycle & do a trial run.
Her court testimony said he cycled The Sea Wall.
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Don't understand that.
Her WS says he planned to cycle & do a trial run.
Her court testimony said he cycled The Sea Wall.
I meant she never disputed Bambers claim of getting the bike for her to get about
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I meant she never disputed Bambers claim of getting the bike for her to get about
She said he planned to cycle to WHF. Both in her WS & at trial.
Not sure what else she can say.
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She does say he planned to cycle and testified this was via the Sea Wall.
Do you believe Bamber would have risked cycling via Brook House Farm?
This would only take 12 minutes and was on perfect terrain.
He would pass multiple properties in Goldhanger. However it would be late & he would be silent. There is no street lighting.
Walking either of these routes would take too long and be too tiring. Walking across fields was not possible.
I take it that Rob agrees Bamber did not walk. But will not retract on here.
That is disappointing. I suggested Bamber couldn't drive down the Brook House Farm lane. But retracted after seeing it on Google Maps 3D.
Everyone has to retract sometimes.
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It is important as he has to give a reason why he brought a bike over 2 days before the massacre.
For Julie to cycle 3 miles holding a suitcase is not that reason.
He could drive her in 5-10 minutes. Or a taxi would take 5 minutes & cost less than £5.00p.
Do you agree the Sea Wall & Brook House farm routes are level terrain?
I take it ILB agrees the land between WHF & Goldhanger was level terrain. There are enough sources showing this.
No 'steep inclines'.
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I take it ILB agrees the land between WHF & Goldhanger was level terrain. There are enough sources showing this.
No 'steep inclines'.
Can only go by both Bamber and RB.
Both men having intimate knowledge of the said area.
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Can only go by both Bamber and RB.
Both men having intimate knowledge of the said area.
I thought Bamber 'had no idea of the route'.
You never provided the extract from RB.
The latest source showing it is flat terrain is Mike's video.
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I thought Bamber 'had no idea of the route'.
You never provided the extract from RB.
The latest source showing it is flat terrain is Mike's video.
Mike was driving on the road.
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Mike was driving on the road.
Which was level.
Pages Lane and Brook House Lane are level.
Just wondering where these steep inclines are.
What day this month are you visiting the area?
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What day this month are you visiting the area?
You will be enlightened by photographic evidence of my visit
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Which was level.
Pages Lane and Brook House Lane are level.
Just wondering where these steep inclines are.
What day this month are you visiting the area?
The fields from the sea wall to WHF
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Which was level.
Pages Lane and Brook House Lane are level.
Just wondering where these steep inclines are.
What day this month are you visiting the area?
Coming from the sea wall there are sections where the gradient would be quite tough Adam.
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Coming from the sea wall there are sections where the gradient would be quite tough Adam.
Do you believe he would cycle the Brook House Farm route?
This would take 12 minutes and is on perfect terrain. However he would cycle through Goldhanger.
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The fields from the sea wall to WHF
You mean the prosecution 0.4 mile farm track that leads from the Sea Wall to Pages Lane?
Both Pages Lane and The Sea Wall are level terrain. No reason why this farm track would not be level.
We both agree the Brook House Farm route is 100% level.
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You mean the prosecution 0.4 mile farm track that leads from the Sea Wall to Pages Lane?
Both Pages Lane and The Sea Wall are level terrain. No reason why this farm track would not be level.
We both agree the Brook House Farm route is 100% level.
You say that without ever having been there.
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Do you believe he would cycle the Brook House Farm route?
This would take 12 minutes and is on perfect terrain. However he would cycle through Goldhanger.
Well I don't think he cycled, but apart from that I would say zero chance of him cycling the Brook House Farm route.
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You mean the prosecution 0.4 mile farm track that leads from the Sea Wall to Pages Lane?
Both Pages Lane and The Sea Wall are level terrain. No reason why this farm track would not be level.
We both agree the Brook House Farm route is 100% level.
Although the sea wall parallel to the sea is relatively flat this is not the case when he leaves the sea wall although not a major problem but I wish you would be accurate in your posting and not just make things up.
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Although the sea wall parallel to the sea is relatively flat this is not the case when he leaves the sea wall although not a major problem but I wish you would be accurate in your posting and not just make things up.
Please provide the source that this 0.4 mile farm track is not level. Wilkinson does not mention any inclines.
Thank you.
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Well I don't think he cycled, but apart from that I would say zero chance of him cycling the Brook House Farm route.
So you believe he cycled the Sea Wall.
Walking across fields was not possible. You do not believe he drove.
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So you believe he cycled the Sea Wall.
Walking across fields was not possible. You do not believe he drove.
I don't think cycling over rough ground in darkness would be much quicker than going on foot. Going on foot he would take a more direct route and could keep well clear of properties which he cannot do if cycling.
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I don't think cycling over rough ground in darkness would be much quicker than going on foot. Going on foot he would take a more direct route and could keep well clear of properties which he cannot do if cycling.
Well the Brook House Farm route was perfect terrain. But you don't believe he would cycle through Goldhanger.
Agree there were insects and 2 waist high styles on the Sea Wall route. This would not deter a highly motivated Bamber.
Walking a more direct route across fields was not possible. I have said this several times.
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Well the Brook House Farm route was perfect terrain. But you don't believe he would cycle through Goldhanger.
Agree there were insects and 2 waist high styles on the Sea Wall route. This would not deter a highly motivated Bamber.
Walking a more direct route across fields was not possible. I have said this several times.
He would not go across fields as such as easy to loose your direction and depending on what crops were in them, but around the edges of them.
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I don't think cycling over rough ground in darkness would be much quicker than going on foot. Going on foot he would take a more direct route and could keep well clear of properties which he cannot do if cycling.
The Sea Wall route goes past Zero/one property. Depending on which left turn he takes onto Pages Lane.
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He would not go across fields as such as easy to loose your direction and depending on what crops were in them, but around the edges of them.
The Sea Wall goes along the edges of the fields.
This was wide and good terrain to cycle on. As several sources have shown. It was also an open area so there would be good vision.
Walking around the edges of fields would take too long and be too tiring.
Walking a more direct route across fields was not possible.
I have said this before.
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The Sea Wall route goes past Zero/one property. Depending on which left turn he takes onto Pages Lane.
If cycling he goes through Wycke Farm? please correct me if I am wrong?
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If cycling he goes through Wycke Farm? please correct me if I am wrong?
If cycling the prosecution route he cycles past Wyke Farm. This is 50 yards in length.
This would be silently and in the dark. Wyke Farm is several yards off Pages Lane.
There is another left turn farm track before this which he could cycle down. This avoids Wyke Farm & leads to Pages Lane.
I have said this before.
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If cycling the prosecution route he cycles past Wyke Farm. This is 50 yards in length.
This would be silently and in the dark. Wyke Farm is several yards off Pages Lane.
There is another farm track before this which he could cycle down. This avoids Wyke Farm.
I have said this before.
He does not cycle past but right through it! Stop posting misinformation you just said zero properties!
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He does not cycle past but right through it! Stop posting misinformation you just said zero properties!
He cycles on Pages Lane. Wyke Farm is off Pages Lane.
Google Maps does show this.
There is another left turn off the Sea Wall which avoids Wyke Farm and leads to Pages Lane.
It is on Google Maps and I have said this before.
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Rob certainly does not believe Bamber drove.
He's making a big thing about Bamber (maybe) silently cycling past one property at 2am!
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Rob certainly does not believe Bamber drove.
He's making a big thing about Bamber (maybe) silently cycling past one property at 2am!
Farms have dogs which are usually kept in outside kennels and would kick up a fuss, I don't think Bamber would go near any farms. I have often set them off.
Remember when Bews and co arrived at WHF the dogs were barking.
I see you are saying one property now, not zero anymore!
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Rob agrees Bamber could not walk a direct route across fields.
Estimate his theory that Bamber zig zagged along the 'edge of fields' would take over 70 minutes.
Considering walking the Brook House Farm & Sea Wall routes took Wilkinson 45 and 70 minutes.
Would be very tiring. And that is just getting there!
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Farms have dogs which are usually kept in outside kennels and would kick up a fuss, I don't think Bamber would go near any farms. I have often set them off.
Remember when Bews and co arrived at WHF the dogs were barking.
I see you are saying one property now, not zero anymore!
How would a silent bike wake a sleeping dog?
Please don't try to divert. You know there are two left turns off The Sea Wall.
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How would a silent bike wake a sleeping dog?
Please don't try to divert. You know there are two left turns off The Sea Wall.
Then post the route, it still goes through a farm if you are cycling.
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Then post the route, it still goes through a farm if you are cycling.
It is on Google Maps.
This has been defined months ago. It does not go past any farm and leads to Pages Lane.
Spending 45, 70 & 70+ minutes walking (twice) was not an option.
The 45 minute walk would be through Goldhanger. You do not believe he would cycle or drive this route. So certainly wouldn't walk it.
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It is on Google Maps.
This has been defined months ago. It does not go past any farm and leads to Pages Lane.
Spending 45, 70 & 70+ minutes walking (twice) was not an option.
The 45 minute walk would be through Goldhanger. You do not believe he would cycle or drive this route. So certainly wouldn't walk it.
I cannot see any route if cycling that does not go past any properties.
Please post your proposed route second request.
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I cannot see any route if cycling that does not go past any properties.
Please post your proposed route second request.
Please don't play dumb again.
There is a farm track 0.2 miles before the prosecution farm track.
This actually looks even wider than the prosecution farm track. Although is not as defined when the right turn has to be made off it leading to the back of WHF.
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Please don't play dumb again.
There is a farm track 0.2 miles before the prosecution farm track.
This actually looks even wider than the prosecution farm track. Although is not as defined when the right turn has to be made off it leading to the back of WHF.
Then post it so I can prove you wrong third request.
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Then post it so I can prove you wrong third request.
I don't how to post images.
Please don't play dumb again. It is on Google Maps. Just before the black field which is also next to the prosecution farm track.
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I don't how to post images.
Please don't play dumb again. It is on Google Maps. Just before the black field which is also next to the prosecution farm track.
Use the snipping tool Adam, I want to see the route that Bamber can cycle that does not go near any properties. Thanks
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Use the snipping tool Adam, I want to see the route that Bamber can cycle that does not go near any properties. Thanks
Please don't play dumb again.
He either -
Cycled The Sea Wall and cycled the prosecution route. Going past one property - Wyke Farm.
Cycled the Sea Wall and turned left 0.2 miles earlier. Avoiding Wyke Farm.
Cycled The Brook House Farm route. This was quickest route at 12 minutes with perfect terrain.
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Rob is using the ILB tactic. Denying something exists on Google Maps.
ILB denied 0.4 miles of the prosecution route existed. Even though it is on Google Maps & is the prosecution route!
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Please don't play dumb again.
He either -
Cycled The Sea Wall and cycled the prosecution route. Going past one property - Wyke Farm.
Cycled the Sea Wall and turned left 0.2 miles earlier. Avoiding Wyke Farm.
Cycled The Brook House Farm route. This was quickest route at 12 minutes with perfect terrain.
So post the only route that does not go past any properties, whats the problem! and hand sketch will do!
It's no use bluffing! the route you are proposing means he has to turn right and go past the same farm anyway so prove me wrong fourth request!
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So post the only route that does not go past any properties, whats the problem! and hand sketch will do!
It's no use bluffing! the route you are proposing means he has to turn right and go past the same farm anyway so prove me wrong fourth request!
The other farm track is around half an inch before the prosecution farm track. On Google Maps.
Please do not pretend you can't find it.
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The other farm track is around half an inch before the prosecution farm track. On Google Maps.
Please do not pretend you can't find it.
If there was a viable route not passing any farms or properties this would have been the prosecutions proposed route.
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Bamber had 3 cycle route options.
Passing 1, 0 or multiple properties.
These would take 20 or 12 minutes.
ILB believes cycling through Goldhanger is not a problem.
Rob believes cycling through Goldhanger would be a problem & Bamber couldn't risk passing one property.
Walking for 70 or 70+ minutes would be too long and tiring.
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Bamber had 3 cycle route options.
Passing 1, 0 or multiple properties.
These would take 20 or 12 minutes.
ILB believes cycling through Goldhanger is not a problem.
Rob believes cycling through Goldhanger would be a problem & Bamber couldn't risk passing one property.
Walking for 70 or 70+ minutes would be too long and tiring.
Oh we are back to just three cycling routes now, so you are admitting your route passing zero properties came to a dead end. Thanks Adam!
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If there was a viable route not passing any farms or properties this would have been the prosecutions proposed route.
Well they chose the most direct route to Pages Lane.
If you believe he couldn't pass one property, then you believe he would cycle the farm track half an inch (on Google Maps) before the prosecution track.
You have a right to believe that.
Spending 70 or 70+ minutes walking was not an option.
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This is Wyckes Farm that you are counting as one property.
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Now show me the route Bamber can cycle that avoids Wycke's Farm.
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Walking or cycling the Brook House farm route I would have been in 2 minds about.
A 12 minute cycle ride on perfect terrain is great. But then I have to cycle through Goldhanger.
Walking & avoiding all properties is great. But 70 or 70+ minutes is too long and would be too tiring.
Thank goodness the Sea Wall route could be cycled in 20 minutes & passed zero/1 property.
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Walking or cycling the Brook House farm route I would have been in 2 minds about.
A 12 minute cycle ride on perfect terrain is great. But then I have to cycle through Goldhanger.
Walking for 70/70+ minutes & avoiding all properties is great. But that takes too long and would be too tiring.
Thank goodness the Sea Wall route could be cycled in 20 minutes & passed zero/1 property.
Thanks and your route that avoids this one property is?
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This is Wyckes Farm that you are counting as one property.
I did say a few posts ago I do not know how to post images.
Are you not able to remember things?
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I did say a few posts ago I do not know how to post images.
Are you not able to remember things?
I just posted a image for you! now describe the route please.
Does it go up the West side please tell me?
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I will help there is a public right of way going West near the bottom of the image I posted.
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Rob's playing the idiot again.
He's determined that Bamber has to pass one property when cycling.
So pretends he can't see the farm track half an inch before (on Google Maps) & next to the prosecution route.
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Where?
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Where?
Other side of the black field.
Are you not able to use your iniative?
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Other side of the black field.
Are you not able to use your iniative?
That is not cycle friendly Bamber would have to push his bike, would you like me to show you the rest of the route it goes back through Wycke's farm!
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That is not cycle friendly Bamber would have to push his bike, would you like me to show you the rest of the route it goes back through Wycke's farm!
It looks more cycle friendly than the prosecution farm track.
Which is why you have not posted a photo.
He turns right off this farm track which leads him onto Pages Lane. Further down and over 400 metres past Wyke Farm. So avoids it.
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I agree that the tracks after making the right turn onto Pages Lane do not look as defined.
However if he could no longer cycle he was now close enough to WHF to walk. It would mean walking across two fields onto the back of WHF.
Estimate walking time of 7 minutes.
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Populated sea wall - DE'ATH NOT DISPUTED.
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Other side of the black field.
Are you not able to use your iniative?
Use his iniative?
You can't create a landscape or area, it's fact or not.
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Populated sea wall - DE'ATH NOT DISPUTED.
Why would she ever go on Bamber's route at 2am?
She lived in London and had a caravan on a site 5 miles away.
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Why would she ever go on Bamber's route at 2am?
She lived in London and had a caravan on a site 5 miles away.
How can you make assumptions over someone you have never met? How would you know what she did or didn't do?
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How can you make assumptions over someone you have never met? How would you know what she did or didn't do?
Why do you think she would travel 5 miles from her caravan at 2am?
That Sea Wall did not have a 24/7 mini mart.
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To be fair she has just mentioned night fishermen.
Suppose there would be a possibility of people fishing in the dark in a heavily populated area such as Ocea Leisure Park. To generalise this to relate to 5 miles away is a big stretch.
ILB is the one who expanded to Bamber passing BBQ's, campers and teenagers.
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I agree that the tracks after making the right turn onto Pages Lane do not look as defined.
However if he could no longer cycle he was now close enough to WHF to walk. It would mean walking across two fields onto the back of WHF.
Estimate walking time of 7 minutes.
Between WHF and Wyckes Farm on the West side of Pages Lane there are no public rights of way, only edges of fields etc. Which is why the prosecution route is through Wycke's farm just common sense really.
The prosecution say Bamber cycled purely because of the timings, not a scrape of evidence he actually did. JM says this was his plan but fails to mention the bike was never for her which would have been quite damming.
So stop post rubbish that Bamber could cycle and pass no properties. When Bews and co quietly walked up to WHF Bruce was kicking up a fuss. Which has happened to me many times while at work or on walks etc.
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Not sure why Rob keeps posting the farm track which leads to Pages Lane.
He knows the other farm track I am referring to is half an inch (on Google Maps) to the left of this.
Very immature.
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Not sure why Rob keeps posting the farm track which leads to Pages Lane.
He knows the other farm track I am referring to is half an inch (on Google Maps) to the left of this.
Very immature.
Then stop posting misleading information, or rather stuff you just make up and hope no one checks.
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Does anyone know the name of the farm an inch (on Google Maps) to the left of Pages Lane?
Bamber had the option of cycling up to this from the Sea Wall. On a well defined farm track.
Turning right to Pages Lane. This avoided Wyke Farm.
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Does anyone know the name of the farm an inch (on Google Maps) to the left of Pages Lane?
Bamber had the option of cycling up to this from the Sea Wall. On a well defined farm track.
Turning right to Pages Lane. This avoided Wyke Farm.
You should know!
West of Pages Lane there is a reservoir, Hyde Farm and Brook House Farm.
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You should know!
West of Pages Lane there is a reservoir, Hyde Farm and Brook House Farm.
I know where Brook House and Lauriston Farms are.
The nearest Farm to the left of Pages Lane (on Google Maps) I do not know the name of.
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I know where Brook House and Lauriston Farms are.
The nearest Farm to the left of Pages Lane (on Google Maps) I do not know the name of.
There is no other farm?
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Obviously farms will have well defined farm tracks leading to them. From different directions.
Cars, lorries, tractors, residents, walking people need to have continuous access to/from farms.
The farm track from the Sea Wall to the nearest farm to the left of Pages Lane looks very wide and defined.
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Obviously farms will have well defined farm tracks leading to them. From different directions.
Cars, lorries, tractors, residents, walking people need to have continuous access to/from farms.
The farm track from the Sea Wall to the nearest farm to the left of Pages Lane looks very wide and defined.
South West of Wycke Farm there is only Lauriston Farm, not sure what you are looking at?
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I will call the nearest farm to the left of Pages Lane (on Google Maps) Farm A.
Brook House, Wyke & WHF are on very wide farm tracks. Suitable for large vehicles. Let alone bikes.
Farm A will be the same. So very easy to cycle up. As Google maps highlights.
By the time he had to turn right off this farm track, he was close enough to walk if the terrain substantially deteriorated.
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I will call the nearest farm to the left of Pages Lane (on Google Maps) Farm A.
Brook House, Wyke & WHF are on very wide farm tracks. Suitable for large vehicles. Let alone bikes.
Farm A will be the same. So very easy to cycle up. As Google maps highlights.
By the time he had to turn right off this farm track, he was close enough to walk if the terrain substantially deteriorated.
Farm A?
The only possible route I can see is to leave the sea wall approx 430m (if this is possible) before the prosecution route and go up towards Hyde Farm but there is no way to get across to Pages Lane unless you carry on further North?
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Looking at the right turn from Farm A, the terrain does not look as defined.
However may still have been ok to cycle. Considering how determined Bamber would be.
Once on Pages Lane he would turn left and cycle 320 metres to WHF.
Or from Farm A he could walk across 2 fields to the back of WHF. Estimate walking time 7 minutes.
Both options avoid Wyke Farm.
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So really 4 options -
Cycle the prosecution route.
Cycle via Brook House Farm.
Cycle the Prosecution route but take a left turn to Farm A. Continue cycling to WHF.
Cycle the prosecution route but take a left turn to Farm A. Walk from Farm A to WHF.
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Two pass no properties.
One passes one property.
One passes multiple properties.
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You really need to get out into the countryside Adam, Bamber cycles this route or that route you have no idea or what the conditions can be like.
All you do is look at Google, and hope no one checks up on the misinformation you post.
Farm A? you really need to do some proper research.
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The residents of farms have a right of vehicle access to locations either side of them.
Brook House Farm has vehicle access to Maldon Road and the B1023.
Wyke & WHF have vehicle access to the B1023 & the Sea Wall.
Farm A has vehicle access to Maldon Road/B1026 & the Sea Wall.
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Both Rob and ILB have made a big thing about Bamber having to pass one property on the prosecution route.
This is surprising with ILB, as his chosen transport method/route has Bamber driving past 45 properties!
However there is a route which passes no properties. This can either be 100% cycled or he would have to walk the final section for 7 minutes.
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Both Rob and ILB have made a big thing about Bamber having to pass one property on the prosecution route.
This is surprising with ILB, as his chosen transport method/route has Bamber driving past 45 properties!
However there is a route which passes no properties. This can either be 100% cycled or he would have to walk the final section for 7 minutes.
When are you going to tell us where this illusive Farm A is?
Just describing it will do so 300m West and 200m South of Wycke's Farm for example will be enough.
I am not making a big thing of anything I am a bit tired of you posting crap like there are zero properties to pass if cycling. If walking I agree with you.
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Me being risk adverse would cycle via Farm A. Meaning I do not pass any properties.
If that meant walking the final section for 7 minutes, so be it.
However if the Farm A route was not available but 500k+ was dangling in front of me, having to cycle past one property at 2am would not stop me.
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Me being risk adverse would cycle via Farm A. Meaning I do not pass any properties.
If that meant walking the final section for 7 minutes, so be it.
However if the Farm A route was not available but 500k+ was dangling in front of me, having to cycle past one property at 2am would not stop me.
Can you tell us where Farm A is roughly?
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Me being risk adverse would cycle via Farm A. Meaning I do not pass any properties.
If that meant walking the final section for 7 minutes, so be it.
However if the Farm A route was not available but 500k+ was dangling in front of me, having to cycle past one property at 2am would not stop me.
It won't because you have no knowledge of the countryside, if I was carrying out the crime I would steer well clear of any Farms.
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Madness to go through farm properties
Vigilant
Could be awake
Barking dogs
Possible security cameras
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Looking at the right turn from Farm A, the terrain does not look as defined.
However may still have been ok to cycle. Considering how determined Bamber would be.
Once on Pages Lane he would turn left and cycle 320 metres to WHF.
Or from Farm A he could walk across 2 fields to the back of WHF. Estimate walking time 7 minutes.
Both options avoid Wyke Farm.
Walking across fields in pitch black 😆
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Madness to go through farm properties
Vigilant
Could be awake
Barking dogs
Possible security cameras
Vigilant?
Dogs would be sleeping.
More likely to be asleep. As you said, if awake not window watching.
Thought security cameras were not common then.
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Anyway it was up to Bamber whether he cycled the prosecution route, CAL's route, or via Farm A.
Appreciate you would cycle the Brook House Farm route.
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You must be referring to Wycke farm Adam when you say Farm A? There are buildings on both sides of Pages Lane.
There is no other farm anywhere near?
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De'ath confirmed the sea wall route being populated.
For me De'ath is a witness of truth.
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De'ath confirmed the sea wall route being populated.
For me De'ath is a witness of truth.
I've quoted the relevant part:
The sea wall encircled the camp, the bit around was tarmacked so that people could walk or ride a bike along with ease. It was always busy during weekends and school holidays. Families would go to their vans and spend the entire holidays there. Fathers would either travel back and forth to work or stay from Friday night to Sunday night there. Children would be up late; barbeques were a group affair where several families would get together and party sometimes till the early hours. This is why I dismiss the police claim that Jeremy rode along the wall on an August night without being seen. It would be impossible to do because people would be on the seawall, night fishing, sitting talking etc. all night. Everyone knew Jeremy and he would have be noticed.
I'm assuming the Defence spoke to the residents of the park?
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I've quoted the relevant part:
The sea wall encircled the camp, the bit around was tarmacked so that people could walk or ride a bike along with ease. It was always busy during weekends and school holidays. Families would go to their vans and spend the entire holidays there. Fathers would either travel back and forth to work or stay from Friday night to Sunday night there. Children would be up late; barbeques were a group affair where several families would get together and party sometimes till the early hours. This is why I dismiss the police claim that Jeremy rode along the wall on an August night without being seen. It would be impossible to do because people would be on the seawall, night fishing, sitting talking etc. all night. Everyone knew Jeremy and he would have be noticed.
I'm assuming the Defence spoke to the residents of the park?
But all of this -the games and parties- would have taken place within the safe parameters of the camp. Goldhanger, where JB lived, is around 4 miles beyond it.
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But all of this -the games and parties- would have taken place within the safe parameters of the camp. Goldhanger, where JB lived, is around 4 miles beyond it.
So where did he allegedly start the sea wall journey Jane?
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So where did he allegedly start the sea wall journey Jane?
Steve, he'd have started from Goldhanger. There would have been no point in going several miles out of his way in the opposite direction.
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De ath had knowledge of Bambers route. The entire wall
De ath was slated for this because she lives in Basildon. Which means nothing. I live in Sheffield and know most of south London intimately.
Adam in particular has described de ath as " one of Bambers batty old dears "
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De ath had knowledge of Bambers route. The entire wall
De ath was slated for this because she lives in Basildon. Which means nothing. I live in Sheffield and know most of south London intimately.
Adam in particular has described de ath as " one of Bambers batty old dears "
I don't believe she did have knowledge of "The entire wall". I get that she may have ventured as far as Mill Beach and Heybridge. Whilst it's not exactly 'clubland' it's interesting enough. Unless she was fond of hiking, there was nothing in the opposite direction.
Whilst I won't call her "one of Bamber's batty old dears", I do think there's an element of revenge and retribution behind what she says.
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I don't believe she did have knowledge of "The entire wall". I get that she may have ventured as far as Mill Beach and Heybridge. Whilst it's not exactly 'clubland' it's interesting enough. Unless she was fond of hiking, there was nothing in the opposite direction.
Whilst I won't call her "one of Bamber's batty old dears", I do think there's an element of revenge and retribution behind what she says.
I believe she did.
I don't believe a caravan deal gone sour with AE should mean anything.
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The general jist of BD complaints are that things were better with Osea when Jeremy and his parents were around. Than under the relatives. It's just an observation.
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The general jist of BD complaints are that things were better with Osea when Jeremy and his parents were around. Than under the relatives. It's just an observation.
Going back to her time there, it was a very different place to the one which exists now. I very much doubt that Nevill would have allowed old vans, past their sell by date, to grace the front row, and as sure as God made little green apples, JB, with his love of money, certainly wouldn't have, but BD never got to know that because, at the time, JB was only helping hand.
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Going back to her time there, it was a very different place to the one which exists now. I very much doubt that Nevill would have allowed old vans, past their sell by date, to grace the front row, and as sure as God made little green apples, JB, with his love of money, certainly wouldn't have, but BD never got to know that because, at the time, JB was only helping hand.
Nevill was a people person by all accounts I've seen of him. A businessman all the same. In all arenas of the case I've yet to find someone say a bad thing about Nevill. Everyone seemed to like him.
Seems to have been a good man with a warm heart.
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Nevill was a people person by all accounts I've seen of him. A businessman all the same. In all arenas of the case I've yet to find someone say a bad thing about Nevill. Everyone seemed to like him.
Seems to have been a good man with a warm heart.
Absolutely. I've not met anyone who knew him -and the few left are all in their late 90's now!- to have anything but good to say of him.
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Absolutely. I've not met anyone who knew him -and the few left are all in their late 90's now!- to have anything but good to say of him.
Yes probably more stricter with Jeremy than Shelia. But that's they way fellas are naturally I think. I myself let my daughter get away with anything compared to my son!
Also he probably had high hopes forJeremy from birth. Probably wanted him moulded in the same way as himself.
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Anyway.
The good thing foe Bamber about parking on pages lane is he can park at the top. At 2am whatever and not be seen by anybody. He can do a three point turn and position the car back facing the road.
He then gets out of the car. And can saunter down pages lane to to the farm. Do his thing. Get out saunter back up to the car and then float back to goldhanger. Park on the driveway then set the plan in action.
The adrenalin would be pumping. All this cycling palava is not needed.
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Absolutely. I've not met anyone who knew him -and the few left are all in their late 90's now!- to have anything but good to say of him.
Makes you wonder why Brett say's Jeremy couldn't get on with him Jane and they wasn't close with no Love between them? He wasn''t living at WHF at the time so you could hardly put it down to being in each others face all the time...............
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8969.0;attach=50191;image
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Makes you wonder why Brett say's Jeremy couldn't get on with him Jane and they wasn't close with no Love between them? He wasn''t living at WHF at the time so you could hardly put it down to being in each others face all the time...............
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8969.0;attach=50191;image
HB, I wonder if it might have been a case of the behaviours displayed publicly being very different to the behaviours displayed privately? It seems, because Nevill didn't talk about it, that very few people knew about his relationship with JB. It was only those who saw it in action who had some inkling. Only ONE person has ever claimed that Nevill had told him that JB had started to "shape up well". Perhaps such had come as a complete surprise?
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HB, I wonder if it might have been a case of the behaviours displayed publicly being very different to the behaviours displayed privately? It seems, because Nevill didn't talk about it, that very few people knew about his relationship with JB. It was only those who saw it in action who had some inkling. Only ONE person has ever claimed that Nevill had told him that JB had started to "shape up well". Perhaps such had come as a complete surprise?
Yes, it seems as though it's Jeremy who does all the talking about his hatred of his Parents. Even though i don't believe JM's role she seems to match what Brett says about his relationship with his parents and his hatred for his mother.
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Yes, it seems as though it's Jeremy who does all the talking about his hatred of his Parents. Even though i don't believe JM's role she seems to match what Brett says about his relationship with his parents and his hatred for his mother.
I imagine the hatred was so ingrained that it wouldn't have been too long before his feelings were sussed, ie, Couldn't leave because he had too much to loose. Parents controlling his life. Sister getting freebies, etc, etc. I imagine that everyone who knew him would have been aware.
I wonder if he'd have been jealous of the sort of lifestyle/jobs being enjoyed by his peer group, ie, jobs which he may have seen as being more interesting/having status/being financially rewarding in the present?
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I imagine the hatred was so ingrained that it wouldn't have been too long before his feelings were sussed, ie, Couldn't leave because he had too much to loose. Parents controlling his life. Sister getting freebies, etc, etc. I imagine that everyone who knew him would have been aware.
I wonder if he'd have been jealous of the sort of lifestyle/jobs being enjoyed by his peer group, ie, jobs which he may have seen as being more interesting/having status/being financially rewarding in the present?
Jane, do you think at the beginning of the working day amongst the other hired labourers Nevill chose to treat his son just as any other employee when allotting tasks and do you think Jeremy might not properly have understood his father's reason for doing this?
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Jane, do you think at the beginning of the working day amongst the other hired labourers Nevill chose to treat his son just as any other employee when allotting tasks and do you think Jeremy might not properly have understood his father's reason for doing this?
Thats a good point Steve and one I am familiar with, I worked with my Dad in the mines and he was in charge, he treat me as one of his men at work and I accepted it and it couldn’t be no other way. I had to take orders just the same as the other men.
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Jane, do you think at the beginning of the working day amongst the other hired labourers Nevill chose to treat his son just as any other employee when allotting tasks and do you think Jeremy might not properly have understood his father's reason for doing this?
I'm perfectly certain you're correct, Steve. My father worked for a large company and when Lord X decided it was time for his son to join, he asked my father to tutor him, show him the ropes from the ground up. It worked very well. In Jeremy's case, possibly -because of his adoption?- he felt unworthy and of less value than the paid employees?
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I'm perfectly certain you're correct, Steve. My father worked for a large company and when Lord X decided it was time for his son to join, he asked my father to tutor him, show him the ropes from the ground up. It worked very well. In Jeremy's case, possibly -because of his adoption?- he felt unworthy and of less value than the paid employees?
I think there was always a distance between them, as Brett Collins mentioned in Hardy Boy's excerpt in #1677. Not sure Jeremy resented adoption as such; it was the trappings of wealth he desired without the aptitude to accomplish, and had he been handed the wherewithal on a plate I'm sure his adoption status would have been quietly overlooked. Did he ever taunt his father on being unable to conceive naturally: there's no mention in the books, though there is reference to part of June's anatomy meaning she was unable to bear children. Whether Jeremy was cognizant of any of this is a moot point.
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I think there was always a distance between them, as Brett Collins mentioned in Hardy Boy's excerpt in #1677. Not sure Jeremy resented adoption as such; it was the trappings of wealth he desired without the aptitude to accomplish, and had he been handed the wherewithal on a plate I'm sure his adoption status would have been quietly overlooked. Did he ever taunt his father on being unable to conceive naturally: there's no mention in the books, though there is reference to part of June's anatomy meaning she was unable to bear children. Whether Jeremy was cognizant of any of this is a moot point.
What caused the thought was the episode where Jeremy was told of his adoption, then, within months despatched to boarding school where his adoption was used against him. Whether or not he was aware of all this when he -the owner's son!- was placed in the lowest position possible on the farm, I can't say, but we may be sure he'd have felt the effects. Obtaining money -in abundance- would have been his way of rising above the indignities he'd suffered.
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Jeremy and Nevill did have a warm relationship I believe to a degree. Nevill being a nostalgic character keeping momentous of Jeremy growing up. Both father and son playing snooker together. Take the case aside. Believe when Jeremy if he said it " I hate my fucking parents " was more in the sense of June than Nevill. And if you believe Jeremy guilty you believe he told Julie " that I miss the old man "
Jeremy certainly related better to Nevill than June. Both had a good sense of humour ( I can personally vouch for the latter, he had myself in stitches at times in long lartin,) it was the normal father son relationship in many respects. No doubt Jeremy was a pain the arse. But I gather so was Shelia. They were young people. Boy George, the highlife, " loads of money " Nevill was old school, world war 2, a stalwart conservative, judicial man, churchgoer ( although probably due to his wife's convictions )
It's obviously their personalitys would clash. Nevill and June wanted a vicar of d'arcy type person. They got a Jeremy and Shelia.
It was Nevill who sent Jeremy to greshams, not June. The former have enjoyed his time at boarding school.
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Jeremy and Nevill did have a warm relationship I believe to a degree. Nevill being a nostalgic character keeping momentous of Jeremy growing up. Both father and son playing snooker together. Take the case aside. Believe when Jeremy if he said it " I hate my fucking parents " was more in the sense of June than Nevill. And if you believe Jeremy guilty you believe he told Julie " that I miss the old man "
Jeremy certainly related better to Nevill than June. Both had a good sense of humour ( I can personally vouch for the latter, he had myself in stitches at time in long lartin,) it was the normal father son relationship in many respects.
I agree that he related better to Nevill than June. Warm is relative so I think his relationship with Nevill was warmer than with June. I emphatically believe he told Julie "I miss the old man"! Missing someone isn't tantamount to wanting them back. I have yet to find out what constitutes "normal".
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I agree that he related better to Nevill than June. Warm is relative so I think his relationship with Nevill was warmer than with June. I emphatically believe he told Julie "I miss the old man"! Missing someone isn't tantamount to wanting them back. I have yet to find out what constitutes "normal".
Believe Bamber getting rejected from his natural parents and learning he has a full blood brother and sister relates greatly to the scenario if he is a gulity party
In those days you just crack on with it. No one to turn to no mens mental health, no confiding. Stiff upper lip. Obviously resenment will form over time, to varying degrees depending on the person. Natural bodily reaction.
I have never ever believed it was " just for the cash " although would have been tempting. I believe when he killed if gulity he in his mind was fighting back to a perceived injustice he felt whether it be rrok childhood or anything.
People who knew him at the time describe him as being a " normal sort of fellow" " cocky yes, but I was a cocky git in my twenties ( still am!) as many young men are. It isn't far from the norm. The difference with Jeremy he is convicted of a ghastly crime. I think the reality of his life pre massacre was much more mundane to be honest.
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We also have to remember that between both children. Shelia would have took up most of their attention. She had problems of no fault of her own. Jeremy whether you like him or not was seen as a much more grounded person than Shelia.
His adolescence apart from charging money from Nevill to see the world was a lot less troublesome. He displayed no obvious mental health problems. Nevill would have been more sympathetic to Shelia as she was probably a daddy's girl in many ways. When Jeremy approached Nevill with a problem it was probably met with a curt response of something like " just stop moaning Jeremy get on with it"
Nevill and June were still babysitting Shelia in her late twenties, Daniel and Nicholas, hospital stays, Nevill having to drive down to London to comfort Shelia in the middle of the night ( whilst having a business to run and maintain ) June by Adams submission " cooking for Shelia and taking meals to her "
But when I say "babysitting Shelia " I don't mean it to her detriment. She wasn't a well woman. She just needed looking after.
Seems Jeremy just wanted more dough from them. To be honest there's nothing much to differentiate Jeremy from a lot of young men in that regard. He seemed to like the high life and expensive tastes. I would have probably been the same if my parents were wealthy. My grandfather was wealthy and I was spoilt by him. Getting cars bought off him and such and other things. The only difference is my grandad was happy to offer me and my siblings these things. It wasn't a case of us saying " I want this I want that "
David Boutflour mentioned that June and Nevill were soft with both children and not strict. But I don't see Nevill or June to be pushover sort of people.
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Believe Bamber getting rejected from his natural parents and learning he has a full blood brother and sister relates greatly to the scenario if he is a gulity party
In those days you just crack on with it. No one to turn to no mens mental health, no confiding. Stiff upper lip. Obviously resenment will form over time, to varying degrees depending on the person. Natural bodily reaction.
I have never ever believed it was " just for the cash " although would have been tempting. I believe when he killed if gulity he in his mind was fighting back to a perceived injustice he felt whether it be rrok childhood or anything.
People who knew him at the time describe him as being a " normal sort of fellow" " cocky yes, but I was a cocky git in my twenties ( still am!) as many young men are. It isn't far from the norm. The difference with Jeremy he is convicted of a ghastly crime. I think the reality of his life pre massacre was much more mundane to be honest.
We also have to remember that between both children. Shelia would have took up most of their attention. She had problems of no fault of her own. Jeremy whether you like him or not was seen as a much more grounded person than Shelia.
His adolescence apart from charging money from Nevill to see the world was a lot less troublesome. He displayed no obvious mental health problems. Nevill would have been more sympathetic to Shelia as she was probably a daddy's girl in many ways. When Jeremy approached Nevill with a problem it was probably met with a curt response of something like " just stop moaning Jeremy get on with it"
Nevill and June were still babysitting Shelia in her late twenties, Daniel and Nicholas, hospital stays, Nevill having to drive down to London to comfort Shelia in the middle of the night ( whilst having a business to run and maintain ) June by Adams submission " cooking for Shelia and taking meals to her "
But when I say "babysitting Shelia " I don't mean it to her detriment. She wasn't a well woman. She just needed looking after.
Seems Jeremy just wanted more dough from them. To be honest there's nothing much to differentiate Jeremy from a lot of young men in that regard. He seemed to like the high life and expensive tastes. I would have probably been the same if my parents were wealthy. My grandfather was wealthy and I was spoilt by him. Getting cars bought off him and such and other things. The only difference is my grandad was happy to offer me and my siblings these things. It wasn't a case of us saying " I want this I want that "
David Boutflour mentioned that June and Nevill were soft with both children and not strict. But I don't see Nevill or June to be pushover sort of people.
Well, the odds here are really stacking up against JB, aren't they? You've pointed out, quite rightly, that back in the 80's there was no help for men who had problems of the psychological type -and let's be honest, if JB had even thought his 'problem' to be any more than controlling parents and a spoilt sister, he'd have thought the next step would have been the "loony bin"- but it doesn't mean they didn't have those problems.
So now you've added sibling rivalry to the mix! Whilst, in most families, it's par for the course and a normal part of growing up, ie, Why do I have to go to bed first? Why don't I get as much pocket money? I wanted that one! etc, etc. Usually, the natural bonding between family members kicks in and straightens things out. However, in some families, the rivalry can become much darker -usually, and in my experience, where significant wealth is part of the equation. So, from a young age, we have JB, before he knew he was adopted, knowing he'd come into megga money when he was older and all he had to do was fulfil certain obligations, but he probably saw his sister as getting everything she wanted without have to fulfil anything -NOT saying this was how it was, rather, it was as JB saw it unfolding. Clearly, the Bambers tried to balance the financial handouts. They paid for all Sheila's post school courses to find a suitable career, so they paid for JB Australasian trips, but it all stopped when Sheila failed at everything, other than becoming pregnant, and they subsequently provided her with a London apartment which, in the 80's was the place to be, and undoubtedly, JB longed to be there,,,,,,,,,,,,,except, for him, the handouts came to an end and his 'obligations' began. He probably saw that as being his life mapped out indefinitely. He had a choice. He could stay with it till he was middle aged, watching Sheila and her growing boys suck his inheritance dry, OR, the alternative was to take matters into his own hands.
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There's a lot of instances of people saying Jeremy kept moaning his parents kept him short of cash?
What was Shelia like in terms of asking for money? Was she as materialistic as Jeremy was?
Have read Colin's book. I enjoyed it. Colin seemed a friendly warm straight forward type of guy.
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There's a lot of instances of people saying Jeremy kept moaning his parents kept him short of cash?
What was Shelia like in terms of asking for money? Was she as materialistic as Jeremy was?
Have read Colin's book. I enjoyed it. Colin seemed a friendly warm straight forward type of guy.
I don't think Sheila was in any way materialistic and I doubt Colin would have been attracted to such a woman. Such MAY have formed part of JB's resentment. She was given it without ever asking for it, ergo, she must have been their favourite child.
I, too, liked Colin. There was an authenticity about him which I enjoyed. He never tried to change to fit with the Bambers.
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I don't think Sheila was in any way materialistic and I doubt Colin would have been attracted to such a woman. Such MAY have formed part of JB's resentment. She was given it without ever asking for it, ergo, she must have been their favourite child.
I, too, liked Colin. There was an authenticity about him which I enjoyed. He never tried to change to fit with the Bambers.
It's funny Jane to be honest. If I recall correctly in either wilkes book or CAL,( think the latter ) she provides a source of Shelia saying that she thought " Jeremy was Nevills Favoruite" believe it was by Inez Brown
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I don't think Sheila was in any way materialistic and I doubt Colin would have been attracted to such a woman. Such MAY have formed part of JB's resentment. She was given it without ever asking for it, ergo, she must have been their favourite child.
I, too, liked Colin. There was an authenticity about him which I enjoyed. He never tried to change to fit with the Bambers.
Yes Colin spoke highly of Nevill in the book, he was less fond of June. I like how Nevill made Colin feel welcome and that he was down to earth despite the statue of the man.
I think Colin did not like the fact that in the early stages of the relationship things were bankrolled by Nevill. I think Colin felt a little embarrassed. Totally normal reaction, but at the same time he knew he had no choice ( financial wise )
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Thats a good point Steve and one I am familiar with, I worked with my Dad in the mines and he was in charge, he treat me as one of his men at work and I accepted it and it couldn’t be no other way. I had to take orders just the same as the other men.
Just my recollection, I worked for my grandad in the 80s, ( who was like a dad to me we were very close) I did get a lot of leeway compared to other employees. I think there's usually it's either " same as everybody else, or " preferential treatment "
Many companies I've worked at in the past, especially family orientated ones ( brothers uncles etc, it's very unlikely you will get any type of advancement.
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I'm perfectly certain you're correct, Steve. My father worked for a large company and when Lord X decided it was time for his son to join, he asked my father to tutor him, show him the ropes from the ground up. It worked very well. In Jeremy's case, possibly -because of his adoption?- he felt unworthy and of less value than the paid employees?
I think he will have had some type of preferential treatment. But more probably along the lines of having days off when he wanted or not working late. ( Nevill stated he had trouble getting Jeremy to work weekends ) Which means he wasn't that forceful with him otherwise he would have made him do so!
I definatley don't think his duties were just farm labouring. One employee in his statement stated he would go to Jeremy to receive instruction, and farm reps at the trial said " they found Jeremy the easiest person to deal with out of the family " which meant Jeremys duties would have extended somewhat than just a bloke in the fields. Having said that, labouring duties did make up time in his job as he was on the tractor and fields. Nevill himself did these tasks ( and he was the gaffer!
Having said that there is a source of Nevill saying Jeremy was shaping up well at the farm. Believe Jeremy would have got into it but knowing his character he probably wanted things done his way. Didn't he have plans to computerise the place and only half jokingly suggest they make Barbara Wilson redundant?
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It's funny Jane to be honest. If I recall correctly in either wilkes book or CAL,( think the latter ) she provides a source of Shelia saying that she thought " Jeremy was Nevills Favoruite" believe it was by Inez Brown
Yeh, well there's sibling rivalry in action for you, ILB. My late partner's two sons both shared with me how terrible it was for them in childhood! Would you believe they both told me exactly the same story, ie, their sibling was the favourite. It actually all comes down to one child requiring/knowing how to get?!!! more attention than the other, who, naturally, feels neglected and resentful as a result.
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I think he will have had some type of preferential treatment. But more probably along the lines of having days off when he wanted or not working late. ( Nevill stated he had trouble getting Jeremy to work weekends ) Which means he wasn't that forceful with him otherwise he would have made him do so!
I definatley don't think his duties were just farm labouring. One employee in his statement stated he would go to Jeremy to receive instruction, and farm reps at the trial said " they found Jeremy the easiest person to deal with out of the family " which meant Jeremys duties would have extended somewhat than just a bloke in the fields. Having said that, labouring duties did make up time in his job as he was on the tractor and fields. Nevill himself did these tasks ( and he was the gaffer!
Having said that there is a source of Nevill saying Jeremy was shaping up well at the farm. Believe Jeremy would have got into it but knowing his character he probably wanted things done his way. Didn't he have plans to computerise the place and only half jokingly suggest they make Barbara Wilson redundant?
This was a conversation following the two round-the-world trips of Jeremy's between Barbara Wilson and Nevill. I believe Nevill was trying to look on the bright side, namely that his son had sown his wild oats and was finally about to settle down to agricultural duties with a suitable wife approved of by himself and June. However, Barbara harboured doubts about Jeremy's real intentions, suspecting that behind every act of his lay an ulterior motive.
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Currently in lanzarote. Sorry for bumping this. Got a taxi last night from a resturaunt, about 1am, a quiet little village. Very isolated. Akin to goldhanger tollshunt D'Arcy in 1985.
Got me thinking about the car route of Bamber.
He could have easily done it in the car without being seen.
Did not see a soul last night and went past properties all in darkness.
In 85, in an Enid Blyton village like goldhanger a drive to tollshunt D'Arcy would be so simple.
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Currently in lanzarote. Sorry for bumping this. Got a taxi last night from a resturaunt, about 1am, a quiet little village. Very isolated. Akin to goldhanger tollshunt D'Arcy in 1985.
Got me thinking about the car route of Bamber.
He could have easily done it in the car without being seen.
Did not see a soul last night and went past properties all in darkness.
In 85, in an Enid Blyton village like goldhanger a drive to tollshunt D'Arcy would be so simple.
You're right. I think we tend to forget how much quieter life was back then.
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Currently in lanzarote. Sorry for bumping this. Got a taxi last night from a resturaunt, about 1am, a quiet little village. Very isolated. Akin to goldhanger tollshunt D'Arcy in 1985.
Got me thinking about the car route of Bamber.
He could have easily done it in the car without being seen.
Did not see a soul last night and went past properties all in darkness.
In 85, in an Enid Blyton village like goldhanger a drive to tollshunt D'Arcy would be so simple.
Sorry ILB but to me the car is a non starter, in any case if JB was willing to risk driving why does he not dial 999 and belt back to his cottage?
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Sorry ILB but to me the car is a non starter, in any case if JB was willing to risk driving why does he not dial 999 and belt back to his cottage?
A 999 call would be risky from WHF in my view.
If a mobile patrol unit is close by, they may descend on the scene quickly and catch him on the premises. Despite any method of transport he may have used.
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A 999 call would be risky from WHF in my view.
If a mobile patrol unit is close by, they may descend on the scene quickly and catch him on the premises. Despite any method of transport he may have used.
Today yes because they could trace the call very quick, but in 1985 it would take the Police time to locate the address. Bamber would cut the call before giving full details.
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Today yes because they could trace the call very quick, but in 1985 it would take the Police time to locate the address. Bamber would cut the call before giving full details.
If Bamber cut the call without giving the address could the call be traced?
I know phonecalls couldn't be traced,
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I will never understand till this day even by 85 standards they sent three unarmed officers first off to the scene. And told the witness ( Jeremy Bamber to go to the scene)
Talking police protocol, this put three officers and a civilian in harms way.
The nature of the call ( starting point ) was that there was a woman going amok with a gun. I know it took firearm officers 4 hours to enter but surely they should have been on the scene straight away. Or as quick as they could be mustered. I am shocked in took the time it did.
It's crazy how times have changed.