Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: ILB on March 16, 2024, 06:27:PM
-
Sets off via the sea wall on his mother's bike without lighting in the pitch black.
Falls off bike after 2 minutes, due to hitting divot. Breaks arms and shatters pelvis.
Even if he doesn't. Barbara de'ath says he would have been seen via the sea wall. As many people congregated their till the early hours and often all night.
Verdict. A none starter failure.
-
Sets off via the sea wall on his mother's bike without lighting in the pitch black.
Falls off bike after 2 minutes, due to hitting divot. Breaks arms and shatters pelvis.
Even if he doesn't. Barbara de'ath says he would have been seen via the sea wall. As many people congregated their till the early hours and often all night.
Verdict. A none starter failure.
You obviously can't create a Bamber scenario without having Nevill and June being ambushed in bed.
I will create your scenario based on what you have said over the years.
-
I can I am getting to the WHF one I am doing all scenarios walk, bike, car,
Obviously I don't believe he could do it via the sea wall
This is what you requested!
-
Please be serious with your Bamber scenario.
Guest29835 did give a serious Bamber scenario to support his 'guilty but wouldn't convict' stance. Although failed to keep to the crime scene evidence.
Cycling via the Sea Wall was very possible. It was the prosecution case. But you are entitled to say he drove.
-
As said this is the sea wall none starter scenario
-
As said this is the sea wall none starter scenario
Please do not make yourself look stupid.
The prosecution case is he cycled the sea wall. The defence did not dispute this. Julie said he planned to cycle the Sea Wall.
GG, RB, Killingeve & Hardy Boy have all said it is very possible. No one from either side has ever said it was not possible.
These would not be the case if it was a 'non starter'.
-
The thing about The Sea Wall is it was....'a sea wall'.
It was not a footpath or driveway that was attached to main roads or other pathways. It was not a route or short cut to anywhere.
It was also dark and secluded. Not a safe place to be at night.
Absolutely no reason why anyone would be on it from sunset to sunrise. Not exactly Waterloo Station during the day either.
The route is straight, flat, in the open, has good terrain and does not go within 50 yards of any properties. He also knew the route.
Worth the risk.
-
The Sea Wall is the safest option.
He had no time constraints on the way to WHF.
The long gap between phoning Julie & the police suggests he did not believe he had major time constraints after the massacre. If he had phoned his AM.
So no point cycling a slightly quicker but more risky route.
-
The Sea Wall is the safest option.
He had no time constraints on the way to WHF.
The long gap between phoning Julie & the police suggests he did not believe he had major time constraints after the massacre. If he had phoned his AM.
So no point cycling a slightly quicker but more risky route.
I think the statement of Barbara De ath pretty much shuts the ridiculous theory down
-
I think the statement of Barbara De ath pretty much shuts the ridiculous theory down
The mysterious night fishermen.
-
The mysterious night fishermen.
She was a local.
She obviously knew the sea wall.
-
In fairness I didn't believe the sea wall would be a bad option population wise. I thought as Adam said it would be a zero risk as nobody would likely to be there at the time he is supposed to have set off.
A tik tok of Bamber speaking about it says " ridiculous over fields , on my mum's bike in the middle of the night ludicrous"
Which fields is he alluding to? I thought it was a path ? Or is he on about another route ?
I always said it wouldn't be possible without artificial lighting. That was and still is my main qualm with it. Not going to go over GG again as we've done it too many times.
However BA suggests that the sea wall having activity on it all night with people doing different activities to me makes the idea even less likely. She is a local and will know the area well.
-
In fairness I didn't believe the sea wall would be a bad option population wise. I thought as Adam said it would be a zero risk as nobody would likely to be there at the time he is supposed to have set off.
A tik tok of Bamber speaking about it says " ridiculous over fields , on my mum's bike in the middle of the night ludicrous"
Which fields is he alluding to? I thought it was a path ? Or is on about another route ?
I always said it wouldn't be possible without artificial lighting. That was and still is my main qualm with it. Not going to go over GG again as we've done it too many times.
However BA suggests that the sea wall having activity on it all night with people doing different activities to me makes the idea even less likely. She is a local and will know the area well.
Other locals have said the sea wall would be treacherous at night, and highly likely a cycle would get a puncture.
If guilty I believed the only option was to go on foot, if he comes across anyone he can just duck down etc. Going on foot would not be much slower as cycling flat out in darkness is just ridiculous with no lights.
-
Other locals have said the sea wall would be treacherous at night, and highly likely a cycle would get a puncture.
If guilty I believed the only option was to go on foot, if he comes across anyone he can just duck down etc. Going on foot would not be much slower as cycling flat out in darkness is just ridiculous with no lights.
A local woman suggests the sea wall had people on it all night doing night fishing and other activities.
-
How many routes are there ?
Apart from main roads and sea wall ?
Bamber mentions fields in the Tik tok.
Didn't RWB mention something about fields ?
The sea wall is a path ?
The prosecution say he went via a route " which avoided the main roads "
-
Other locals have said the sea wall would be treacherous at night, and highly likely a cycle would get a puncture.
If guilty I believed the only option was to go on foot, if he comes across anyone he can just duck down etc. Going on foot would not be much slower as cycling flat out in darkness is just ridiculous with no lights.
Identification wise going on foot and cycle are both massively risky.
He and his family were well known. His father was a prominent businessman and pillar of the community and employer.
It didn't need to be even a positive ID of him, a witness description of a " young fella, dark hair slim mid twenties " would have tied him strongly circumstantially
If he walks past somebody. That's even a more clear cut chance of an ID.
Your right he could " dodge " round people but that in itself is risky
-
A local woman suggests the sea wall had people on it all night doing night fishing and other activities.
So why didn't the defence say this?
-
So why didn't the defence say this?
How should I know ?
You would have to ask Jeremy Bamber.and Kingsley Napley
-
Other locals have said the sea wall would be treacherous at night, and highly likely a cycle would get a puncture.
If guilty I believed the only option was to go on foot, if he comes across anyone he can just duck down etc. Going on foot would not be much slower as cycling flat out in darkness is just ridiculous with no lights.
Get a puncture? It was a cycle path.
You are just trying to create obstacles on a straight forward journey.
-
Identification wise going on foot and cycle are both massively risky.
He and his family were well known. His father was a prominent businessman and pillar of the community and employer.
It didn't need to be even a positive ID of him, a witness description of a " young fella, dark hair slim mid twenties " would have tied him strongly circumstantially
He is pretty much done for if anyone was seen that night running or cycling, but on foot to me is much safer as he would take a more direct route hugging hedges etc. Still risky and he would have to steer well clear of any properties I sometimes set dogs off from miles away.
-
Identification wise going on foot and cycle are both massively risky.
He and his family were well known. His father was a prominent businessman and pillar of the community and employer.
It didn't need to be even a positive ID of him, a witness description of a " young fella, dark hair slim mid twenties " would have tied him strongly circumstantially
If he walks past somebody. That's even a more clear cut chance of an ID.
Your right he could " dodge " round people but that in itself is risky
The Sea Wall passed no properties. It was not a short cut to other roads or adjoined roads.
Check Google maps.
No possibility of being seen.
Worth the risk.
-
Get a puncture? It was a cycle path.
You are just trying to create obstacles on a straight forward journey.
I wish you would stop this nonsense Adam, the crime was committed in 1985 not 2024.
I once posted you a picture have another look, it's a shame you cannot discuss the case sensibly.
-
How should I know ?
You would have to ask Jeremy Bamber.and Kingsley Napley
Sounds like a made up story that has gathered support from supporters over the last 39 years.
-
Sounds like a made up story that has gathered support from supporters over the last 39 years.
That's a guilters prospective.
The other is it's a local to the area.
-
The Sea Wall passed no properties. It was not a short cut to other roads or adjoined roads.
Check Google maps.
No possibility of being seen.
Worth the risk.
Seems this woman is saying the sea wall was heavily populated overnight.
I can't say for certain I'm not a local and wasn't back in 1985.
-
In fairness I didn't believe the sea wall would be a bad option population wise. I thought as Adam said it would be a zero risk as nobody would likely to be there at the time he is supposed to have set off.
A tik tok of Bamber speaking about it says " ridiculous over fields , on my mum's bike in the middle of the night ludicrous"
Which fields is he alluding to? I thought it was a path ? Or is he on about another route ?
I always said it wouldn't be possible without artificial lighting. That was and still is my main qualm with it. Not going to go over GG again as we've done it too many times.
However BA suggests that the sea wall having activity on it all night with people doing different activities to me makes the idea even less likely. She is a local and will know the area well.
RB only mentions fields when he had a meeting with Barlow ILB?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3185.0;attach=20341;image
There would have been at least a 30 per cent increase in rolling resistance cycling the fields or the sea wall, Possibly more?
-
Seems this woman is saying the sea wall was heavily populated overnight.
I can't say for certain I'm not a local and wasn't back in 1985.
If you read it ILB she say's the sea wall encircled the Camp [meaning Osea Caravan Park] the route Jeremy would have taken via the sea wall wasn't near the Camp, I'm not disputing what she say's, i worked on a holiday park for near 10 years in the area, at the time of the year the area's around the Camp would most certainly be busy especially at weekends, not usually in the week though, but the area away from the Camp where Jeremy was said to have cycled is possibly 3.5k away roughly to the start of the sea wall at Goldhanger, Pages Lane was in the opposite direction, he didn't go near Osea Caravan Park?
The sea wall encircled the camp, the bit around was tarmacked so that people could walk or ride a bike along with ease. It was always busy during weekends and school holidays. Families would go to their vans and spend the entire holidays there. Fathers would either travel back and forth to work or stay from Friday night to Sunday night there. Children would be up late; barbeques were a group affair where several families would get together and party sometimes till the early hours. This is why I dismiss the police claim that Jeremy rode along the wall on an August night without being seen. It would be impossible to do because people would be on the seawall, night fishing, sitting talking etc. all night. Everyone knew Jeremy and he would have be noticed.
When i read it i was waiting for the Punchline, the one that was going to somehow really back Jeremy up, it never came and then i realised what her gripe was, her gripe was against the Boutflours.........After Jeremy was imprisoned the family who took over the site was gentrifying and everything changed on the Camp. We all paid £1,000 a year for our plots but clearly this wasn’t enough. We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to buy a new van, no vans were allowed on site that were more than 5 years old. They could offer us a new van for the discount price of £14,000; I was earning £5,000 a year at the time and my husband Bri was on about £11,000. We said we couldn’t afford their fabulous offer, it was difficult enough to find the £1,000 a year rent as it was. We were then told that our van would be towed off of our current plot, and given a plot at the back of the camp by the rubbish dump for the same rent. Sadly we said that if this were the case we would leave the camp. The answer to that from the Boutflour management was our van would be towed off site and we would have to find a buyer and pay them 20% of the selling price plus £600 towing fee. We were distraught; as far as we were concerned we were being thrown off the site for no good reason. They were out to make as much money as possible unlike the Bamber’s that wanted an income but also cared that people had a chance of a peaceful holiday in beautiful surroundings.
I don't agree how these Holiday Park owners work personally ILB, but i assure you, Jeremy or the Bambers wouldn't have been any different to what the Boutlflours do or have done regarding Caravan sales ETC, they all sang from the same Hymn sheet.
-
If you read it ILB she say's the sea wall encircled the Camp [meaning Osea Caravan Park] the route Jeremy would have taken via the sea wall wasn't near the Camp, I'm not disputing what she say's, i worked on a holiday park for near 10 years in the area, at the time of the year the area's around the Camp would most certainly be busy especially at weekends, not usually in the week though, but the area away from the Camp where Jeremy was said to have cycled is possibly 3.5k away roughly to the start of the sea wall at Goldhanger, Pages Lane was in the opposite direction, he didn't go near Osea Caravan Park?
The sea wall encircled the camp, the bit around was tarmacked so that people could walk or ride a bike along with ease. It was always busy during weekends and school holidays. Families would go to their vans and spend the entire holidays there. Fathers would either travel back and forth to work or stay from Friday night to Sunday night there. Children would be up late; barbeques were a group affair where several families would get together and party sometimes till the early hours. This is why I dismiss the police claim that Jeremy rode along the wall on an August night without being seen. It would be impossible to do because people would be on the seawall, night fishing, sitting talking etc. all night. Everyone knew Jeremy and he would have be noticed.
When i read it i was waiting for the Punchline, the one that was going to somehow really back Jeremy up, it never came and then i realised what her gripe was, her gripe was against the Boutflours.........After Jeremy was imprisoned the family who took over the site was gentrifying and everything changed on the Camp. We all paid £1,000 a year for our plots but clearly this wasn’t enough. We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to buy a new van, no vans were allowed on site that were more than 5 years old. They could offer us a new van for the discount price of £14,000; I was earning £5,000 a year at the time and my husband Bri was on about £11,000. We said we couldn’t afford their fabulous offer, it was difficult enough to find the £1,000 a year rent as it was. We were then told that our van would be towed off of our current plot, and given a plot at the back of the camp by the rubbish dump for the same rent. Sadly we said that if this were the case we would leave the camp. The answer to that from the Boutflour management was our van would be towed off site and we would have to find a buyer and pay them 20% of the selling price plus £600 towing fee. We were distraught; as far as we were concerned we were being thrown off the site for no good reason. They were out to make as much money as possible unlike the Bamber’s that wanted an income but also cared that people had a chance of a peaceful holiday in beautiful surroundings.
I don't agree how these Holiday Park owners work personally ILB, but i assure you, Jeremy or the Bambers wouldn't have been any different to what the Boutlflours do or have done regarding Caravan sales ETC, they all sang from the same Hymn sheet.
I have heard her about her gripe about the caravan before. In reference to the the Boutflour Eaton camp.
Business is business Hardy, profit is profit. No disrespect meant against the family in this respect
But as you say what she discusses about the wall may very be correct
-
I have heard her about her gripe about the caravan before. In reference to the the Boutflour Eaton camp.
Business is business Hardy, profit is profit. No disrespect meant against the family in this respect
But as you say what she discusses about the wall may very be correct
For a Sea wall Plot in that area it would be near £6000 a year rent now, without checking.
-
For a Sea wall Plot in that area it would be near £6000 a year rent now, without checking.
Pretty much out of a remit for a skint South Yorkshire boy like myself !
-
RB only mentions fields when he had a meeting with Barlow ILB?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3185.0;attach=20341;image
There would have been at least a 30 per cent increase in rolling resistance cycling the fields or the sea wall, Possibly more?
There's a tik tok hardy of Jeremy speaking about the journey he says " over fields , on my mum's bike in the middle of the night "
" Laughable" it's ridiculous"
I'm not local to the area mate, I just gathered there was an alternative route
I assumed the sea wall is a path
-
If you read it ILB she say's the sea wall encircled the Camp [meaning Osea Caravan Park] the route Jeremy would have taken via the sea wall wasn't near the Camp, I'm not disputing what she say's, i worked on a holiday park for near 10 years in the area, at the time of the year the area's around the Camp would most certainly be busy especially at weekends, not usually in the week though, but the area away from the Camp where Jeremy was said to have cycled is possibly 3.5k away roughly to the start of the sea wall at Goldhanger, Pages Lane was in the opposite direction, he didn't go near Osea Caravan Park?
The sea wall encircled the camp, the bit around was tarmacked so that people could walk or ride a bike along with ease. It was always busy during weekends and school holidays. Families would go to their vans and spend the entire holidays there. Fathers would either travel back and forth to work or stay from Friday night to Sunday night there. Children would be up late; barbeques were a group affair where several families would get together and party sometimes till the early hours. This is why I dismiss the police claim that Jeremy rode along the wall on an August night without being seen. It would be impossible to do because people would be on the seawall, night fishing, sitting talking etc. all night. Everyone knew Jeremy and he would have be noticed.
When i read it i was waiting for the Punchline, the one that was going to somehow really back Jeremy up, it never came and then i realised what her gripe was, her gripe was against the Boutflours.........After Jeremy was imprisoned the family who took over the site was gentrifying and everything changed on the Camp. We all paid £1,000 a year for our plots but clearly this wasn’t enough. We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to buy a new van, no vans were allowed on site that were more than 5 years old. They could offer us a new van for the discount price of £14,000; I was earning £5,000 a year at the time and my husband Bri was on about £11,000. We said we couldn’t afford their fabulous offer, it was difficult enough to find the £1,000 a year rent as it was. We were then told that our van would be towed off of our current plot, and given a plot at the back of the camp by the rubbish dump for the same rent. Sadly we said that if this were the case we would leave the camp. The answer to that from the Boutflour management was our van would be towed off site and we would have to find a buyer and pay them 20% of the selling price plus £600 towing fee. We were distraught; as far as we were concerned we were being thrown off the site for no good reason. They were out to make as much money as possible unlike the Bamber’s that wanted an income but also cared that people had a chance of a peaceful holiday in beautiful surroundings.
I don't agree how these Holiday Park owners work personally ILB, but i assure you, Jeremy or the Bambers wouldn't have been any different to what the Boutlflours do or have done regarding Caravan sales ETC, they all sang from the same Hymn sheet.
Osea Leisure Park is miles away from the Sea Wall cycle route Bamber took.
No reason why anyone out partying on a Tuesday night from there would stray miles away into Bamber's route at 2am.
What route do you believe Bamber cycled?
-
I think so far I'm going to put the sea wall down as none starter.
From BD and no ambient lighting
-
I think so far I'm going to put the sea wall down as none starter.
From BD and no ambient lighting
Please don't make yourself look stupid.
You are entitled to say you believe he drove. However saying the prosecution, the defence, Julie & CAL are wrong does you no credit.
-
Please don't make yourself look stupid.
You are entitled to say you believe he drove. However saying the prosecution, the defence, Julie & CAL are wrong does you no credit.
I can only go by common sense and the relevant information provided by the latest source.
-
I can only go by common sense and the relevant information provided by the latest source.
The Sea Wall was an open space foot/cycle path. It passed no properties & had good terrain.
No reason why anyone would be on it at 2am. The Sea Wall was not a link or short cut to any roads/paths.
The safest route for Bamber on the bike he had stolen.
-
It just puts it to bed Adam. You need to move on with it now. I'm trying not to be patronising.
-
It just puts it to bed Adam. You need to move on with it now. I'm trying not to be patronising.
The Osea Road leisure park was miles to the right of Goldhanger.
Bamber's cycle ride was miles to the left of Goldhanger.
His cycle route would vary from 3 to 7 miles away from it.
You know this as have been on Google Maps.
The article is properganda.
-
Pretty much out of a remit for a skint South Yorkshire boy like myself !
;D ;D ;D. I know the feeling, your pretty much the same Area as me.
-
Any apparent Tuesday night 2am partying at the Osea Leisure Park would probably stay in it's confines.
People certainly wouldn't end up 3-7 miles from it. On a footpath!
-
;D ;D ;D. I know the feeling, your pretty much the same Area as me.
I was born and raised in Sheffield hardy, moved to Solihull when I was 17 later living in Birmingham and worcestershire ( crazy times ) after jail lived in South London for a number of years before coming back up here about 10 years ago.
Love the steel city
-
I was born and raised in Sheffield hardy, moved to Solihull when I was 17 later living in Birmingham and worcestershire ( crazy times ) after jail lived in South London for a number of years before coming back up here about 10 years ago.
Love the steel city
I was there yesterday, Meadowhall till about 3.00 ish. I cycle there regular and then to Rotherham, I’m N E Derbyshire so you’ll know I’m close.
-
I was there yesterday, Meadowhall till about 3.00 ish. I cycle there regular and then to Rotherham, I’m N E Derbyshire so you’ll know I’m close.
I was in Rotherham town centre a few months back, completely dilapidated now.
Meadowhall on a Saturday afternoon no thank you ;D
-
The Osea Road leisure park was miles to the right of Goldhanger.
Bamber's cycle ride was miles to the left of Goldhanger.
His cycle route would vary from 3 to 7 miles away from it.
You know this as have been on Google Maps.
The article is properganda.
Again I can only go on what a local can say about the area.
If there is a source that proves otherwise than il stand corrected
-
I'm working in Essex come may if I have time I intend to go to the area and look for myself
-
I was in Rotherham town centre a few months back, completely dilapidated now.
Meadowhall on a Saturday afternoon no thank you ;D
Yes Rotherham is very run down,, I only call to go to a certain cafe when I’m on my bike. It was rammed in Meadowhall, I don’t usually go, but I wanted something from Black’s, it was either there or the Moor, but the rain put me off going to the Moor.
-
Again I can only go on what a local can say about the area.
If there is a source that proves otherwise than il stand corrected
It's on Google maps.
-
It's on Google maps.
Google maps is not 1985
-
Google maps is not 1985
What would be there in 1985 which no one noticed?
-
Me and you are not locals
BD is, has intimate knowledge.
If you can find a source that is saying BD is talking bollocks I stand corrected.
-
Me and you are not locals
BD is, has intimate knowledge.
If you can find a source that is saying BD is talking bollocks I stand corrected.
David Boutflour had intimate knowledge. He worked and lived on the land.
Did BD often go to the Sea Wall at 2am on a Tuesday?
-
AE, PE, RB, Bamber would have intimate knowledge. They lived and worked there.
Did the defence not go and visit the Sea Wall. Night and day?
Wilkinson certainly visited it. He did not report seeing anyone. Neither did Gunfire Graffiti.
-
Neither the relatives or Wilkinson have commented on the population of the sea wall.
Wilkinson was testing the route he's hardly going to mention in an official statement " I saw three women sat eating ice creams "
-
Did BD often go to the Sea Wall at 2am on a Tuesday?
Possibly
She states that people did spend all night out there all the time.
-
Possibly
She states that people did spend all night out there all the time.
Did BD go to the Sea Wall at 2am on Tuesday nights?
She has not said she was a night fisherman.
-
Night vision goggles
No bike light
Populated sea wall
Dark uneven ground
He might as well have just called a taxi.
-
Night vision goggles
No bike light
Populated sea wall
Dark uneven ground
He might as well have just called a taxi.
Wow one minute it passed no properties and lead nowhere.
Now it's London Bridge train station at rush hour. At 2am.
Someone should have told the defence team.
-
Wow one minute it passed no properties and lead nowhere.
Now it's London Bridge train station at rush hour. At 2am.
Someone should have told the defence team.
It was the height of the summer when the crime happened.
It was the school holidays, August.
What BD says about families and fishermen is very believable
-
Someone should have told the defence team.
Why?
His mantra has always been he was innocent so never made any journey at all.
-
It was the height of the summer when the crime happened.
It was the school holidays, August.
What BD says about families and fishermen is very believable
Families?
'Wake up kids, we are driving to The Sea Wall for a 2am walk'.
-
Families?
'Wake up kids, we are driving to The Sea Wall for a 2am walk'.
Adults not the children as such.
A woman with good local knowledge of the wall.
Perhaps Bamber should have utilised her