Jeremy Bamber Forum
OFF TOPIC => Israel/Palestine => Topic started by: gringo on January 18, 2024, 03:50:AM
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The ICJ have delivered their preliminary ruling on the case brought by South Africa against Israel. The court has ruled that there is a case to answer and have ordered measures that must be taken by Israel in order to prevent/stop the genocide. All military operations ordered to be stopped and any countries aiding the operations to also stop. Any countries who fail to comply with the order will also be complicit in genocide, as ruled by the ICJ. As signatories to the Genocide Convention, the Zionists and their criminal sponsors are now in a sticky position. Are they to become international pariahs acting in defiance of the International Court of Justice and therefore the UN? or will they comply?
We all know the answer, but that defiance will come at huge cost with consequences for those countries in defiance(Israel, US, UK France? and others?). This is a very significant ruling which will reverberate around the world. If the West/Israel/NATO ignore the ruling, any and all moral authority they have ever claimed is exposed as the lie and sham it always was.
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The ICJ have delivered their preliminary ruling on the case brought by South Africa against Israel. The court has ruled that there is a case to answer and have ordered measures that must be taken by Israel in order to prevent/stop the genocide. All military operations ordered to be stopped and any countries aiding the operations to also stop. Any countries who fail to comply with the order will also be complicit in genocide, as ruled by the ICJ. As signatories to the Genocide Convention, the Zionists and their criminal sponsors are now in a sticky position. Are they to become international pariahs acting in defiance of the International Court of Justice and therefore the UN? or will they comply?
We all know the answer, but that defiance will come at huge cost with consequences for those countries in defiance(Israel, US, UK France? and others?). This is a very significant ruling which will reverberate around the world. If the West/Israel/NATO ignore the ruling, any and all moral authority they have ever claimed is exposed as the lie and sham it always was.
To me Gringo nothing makes sense anymore, i don't think anything is fit for Purpose, both the UN or The ICJ. I admit my knowledge on such matters arising in the Middle East is nowhere near the level of some on here yourself included.......... But, you have got Russia attacking Ukraine or vice versa as some would put it, yov'e just had Hamas attack Israel and now vice versa, Iran just launched a missile into Pakistan and now vice versa, wev'e got the Houthi rebels firing at will any Ship that passes through the Red Sea, nothing is fit for Purpose anymore, why should the West/Israel/Nato adhere to anything when other Countries don't Adhere?
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The ICJ have delivered their preliminary ruling on the case brought by South Africa against Israel. The court has ruled that there is a case to answer and have ordered measures that must be taken by Israel in order to prevent/stop the genocide. All military operations ordered to be stopped and any countries aiding the operations to also stop. Any countries who fail to comply with the order will also be complicit in genocide, as ruled by the ICJ. As signatories to the Genocide Convention, the Zionists and their criminal sponsors are now in a sticky position. Are they to become international pariahs acting in defiance of the International Court of Justice and therefore the UN? or will they comply?
We all know the answer, but that defiance will come at huge cost with consequences for those countries in defiance(Israel, US, UK France? and others?). This is a very significant ruling which will reverberate around the world. If the West/Israel/NATO ignore the ruling, any and all moral authority they have ever claimed is exposed as the lie and sham it always was.
Doesn't Russia have a case to answer too? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/vladimir-putin-war-crimes-icc-arrest-warrant-ukraine-children
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The ICJ have delivered their preliminary ruling on the case brought by South Africa against Israel. The court has ruled that there is a case to answer and have ordered measures that must be taken by Israel in order to prevent/stop the genocide. All military operations ordered to be stopped and any countries aiding the operations to also stop. Any countries who fail to comply with the order will also be complicit in genocide, as ruled by the ICJ. As signatories to the Genocide Convention, the Zionists and their criminal sponsors are now in a sticky position. Are they to become international pariahs acting in defiance of the International Court of Justice and therefore the UN? or will they comply?
We all know the answer, but that defiance will come at huge cost with consequences for those countries in defiance(Israel, US, UK France? and others?). This is a very significant ruling which will reverberate around the world. If the West/Israel/NATO ignore the ruling, any and all moral authority they have ever claimed is exposed as the lie and sham it always was.
Sorry for that "mis-information". The ICJ have yet to deliver the preliminary findings of the South African case alleging that the Israeli state is in breach of the Genocide Convention. Below is the video of the lead judge of the ICJ reading out the measures being sought by south Africa. It was posted as the judgement being delivered rather than the readout of the measures being immediately sought. Just over 4 minutes long, it is woth watching to see the extent that US/UK et al will also be affected. The West cannot possibly claim any moral authority if they are to openly ignore the ICJ. Options become available for other countries to act should the ICJ find in SA's favour. Watch the rewading of measures sought below. Ignore the ICJ delivers verdict headline;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q965Efc-OI0&t=12s
Would NATO/Israel dare to attack aid ships and convoys acting with the backing of an ICJ ruling on an active genocide?
South Africa's case was forensic in getting to the heart of intent, the most difficult aspect to prove of a genocide case. Using Israeli official statements and targeted killings after those statements, they put an iron cast case.
No matter how much pressure(blackmail, open threats) is being put on the ICJ judges, I expect the ruling to go against Israel.
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Sorry for that "mis-information". The ICJ have yet to deliver the preliminary findings of the South African case alleging that the Israeli state is in breach of the Genocide Convention. Below is the video of the lead judge of the ICJ reading out the measures being sought by south Africa. It was posted as the judgement being delivered rather than the readout of the measures being immediately sought. Just over 4 minutes long, it is woth watching to see the extent that US/UK et al will also be affected. The West cannot possibly claim any moral authority if they are to openly ignore the ICJ. Options become available for other countries to act should the ICJ find in SA's favour. Watch the rewading of measures sought below. Ignore the ICJ delivers verdict headline;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q965Efc-OI0&t=12s
Would NATO/Israel dare to attack aid ships and convoys acting with the backing of an ICJ ruling on an active genocide?
South Africa's case was forensic in getting to the heart of intent, the most difficult aspect to prove of a genocide case. Using Israeli official statements and targeted killings after those statements, they put an iron cast case.
No matter how much pressure(blackmail, open threats) is being put on the ICJ judges, I expect the ruling to go against Israel.
It probably will. I wonder how many ordinary Gazans were complicit in the October 7 murder of 1200 Israeli citizens? https://freebeacon.com/national-security/gazan-civilians-involved-in-every-stage-of-hamas-hostage-scheme-released-israelis-reveal/
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It probably will. I wonder how many ordinary Gazans were complicit in the October 7 murder of 1200 Israeli citizens? https://freebeacon.com/national-security/gazan-civilians-involved-in-every-stage-of-hamas-hostage-scheme-released-israelis-reveal/
Why do you expect the ICJ will find Israel guilty of genocide?
Do you ever wonder how many journalists have been killed by Hamas? IDF?
What about UN humanitarian staff killed by Hamas? IDF?
You ought to wonder why you are supporting a state that stands accused and you expect to be found guilty of the crime of genocide by the ICJ. How many health workers have Hamas deliberately targeted and killed? How about the IDF? The Zionists are finished, Steve. They have zero chance of "ethnically cleansing" the Palestinians or Hamas from Palestine. They are in fact the greatest recruiting tool that movements such as Hamas could ever have.
Once this is over and the Palestinians are still there, Israel and its supporters will stand as international pariahs. The US will not be able to remain in West Asia/Middle East for much longer. The US are gradually being forced out, their presence being made "unsustainable". Without western military presence in the Middle East, the Zionists are finished.
Your complete disregard of the clear genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out by the Ethno supremacists and their western sponsors in Palestine in front of the world says a lot about you. And now you wonder how many "ordinary Gazans were complicit". I suppose you have to have some "justification", however weak, to openly support the clear crimes against humanity of the Zionist regime, their western sponsors(UK, US) and the IDF.
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To me Gringo nothing makes sense anymore, i don't think anything is fit for Purpose, both the UN or The ICJ. I admit my knowledge on such matters arising in the Middle East is nowhere near the level of some on here yourself included.......... But, you have got Russia attacking Ukraine or vice versa as some would put it, yov'e just had Hamas attack Israel and now vice versa, Iran just launched a missile into Pakistan and now vice versa, wev'e got the Houthi rebels firing at will any Ship that passes through the Red Sea, nothing is fit for Purpose anymore, why should the West/Israel/Nato adhere to anything when other Countries don't Adhere?
To take just one of those issues that "makes no sense", HB, and attempt to make sense of it. The Iran/Pakistan imbroglio exposes and hints at other motives.
Who was bombed in Pakistan by Iran?
Who was bombed "in response" by Pakistan in Iran?
The answers to the above two questions reveal much and beg many more questions.
In both cases it was Balochi separatists that were bombed. Balochis are used and sponsored, much like the Kurds, to stir up trouble in countries that Empire has targeted. Pakistan is heavily infiltrated by western intel agencies, this is no secret. It is what led to the ousting of Imran Khan.
So to sum up. Iran bombed "separatists" who are nothing more than western sponsored agitators who are a problem to themselves and Pakistan, in Pakistan. Had Iran attacked the "separatists" within their own borders, there would have been a chorus of "bombing their own citizens, human rights abuses etc" from the usual suspects(UK, US, EU, NATO et al). The same applies to Pakistan.
A cynic could be led into believing that a bit of "mutual back scratching" just took place. Make all the correct diplomatic noises for plausible denialibility. Pakistan is deeply infiltrated by CIA but they are not the only players in the game. I think that Pakistan and Iran did a spot of mutual "in-house" cleaning rather than being on the brink of war.
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To take just one of those issues that "makes no sense", HB, and attempt to make sense of it. The Iran/Pakistan imbroglio exposes and hints at other motives.
Who was bombed in Pakistan by Iran?
Who was bombed "in response" by Pakistan in Iran?
The answers to the above two questions reveal much and beg many more questions.
In both cases it was Balochi separatists that were bombed. Balochis are used and sponsored, much like the Kurds, to stir up trouble in countries that Empire has targeted. Pakistan is heavily infiltrated by western intel agencies, this is no secret. It is what led to the ousting of Imran Khan.
So to sum up. Iran bombed "separatists" who are nothing more than western sponsored agitators who are a problem to themselves and Pakistan, in Pakistan. Had Iran attacked the "separatists" within their own borders, there would have been a chorus of "bombing their own citizens, human rights abuses etc" from the usual suspects(UK, US, EU, NATO et al). The same applies to Pakistan.
A cynic could be led into believing that a bit of "mutual back scratching" just took place. Make all the correct diplomatic noises for plausible denialibility. Pakistan is deeply infiltrated by CIA but they are not the only players in the game. I think that Pakistan and Iran did a spot of mutual "in-house" cleaning rather than being on the brink of war.
Thanks Gringo, i do believe that due to how Israel are now conducting themselves, that the USA and UK etc are now starting to distance themselves a little, and are putting pressure on Israel? Taking asside my knowledge of the Middle East, my initial gut reaction came from the horrible 7th of October attack and the taking of hostiges, i do hope with all my heart a solution can be found and both Countries can live in Peace.
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Why do you expect the ICJ will find Israel guilty of genocide?
Do you ever wonder how many journalists have been killed by Hamas? IDF?
What about UN humanitarian staff killed by Hamas? IDF?
You ought to wonder why you are supporting a state that stands accused and you expect to be found guilty of the crime of genocide by the ICJ. How many health workers have Hamas deliberately targeted and killed? How about the IDF? The Zionists are finished, Steve. They have zero chance of "ethnically cleansing" the Palestinians or Hamas from Palestine. They are in fact the greatest recruiting tool that movements such as Hamas could ever have.
Once this is over and the Palestinians are still there, Israel and its supporters will stand as international pariahs. The US will not be able to remain in West Asia/Middle East for much longer. The US are gradually being forced out, their presence being made "unsustainable". Without western military presence in the Middle East, the Zionists are finished.
Your complete disregard of the clear genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out by the Ethno supremacists and their western sponsors in Palestine in front of the world says a lot about you. And now you wonder how many "ordinary Gazans were complicit". I suppose you have to have some "justification", however weak, to openly support the clear crimes against humanity of the Zionist regime, their western sponsors(UK, US) and the IDF.
It's not about establishing a Palestinian state. Hamas and their ilk want the lot. When you begin to grasp that you will understand why a two-state solution is now impossible.
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It's not about establishing a Palestinian state. Hamas and their ilk want the lot. When you begin to grasp that you will understand why a two-state solution is now impossible.
I don't think a two state solution is possible. One state, one person, one vote. European Zionist Jewish supremacists are the issue, Steve, hence their current imbroglio with the ICJ on the small matter of committing genocide, which you expect to go against them. What you refuse to grasp, is that Israel are an occupying power and that the Palestinians are occupied. It ends soon.
You overlook way too much history and are way out of your depth in your pathetic attempts to whitewash western and Zionist war crimes which you simply ignore. Your latest gambit, blaming what you call "ordinary Gazans", in order to excuse/ignore the clear crimes against humanity being committed by your pet colonialists is low even for you, but to be expected.
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The US and UK are pathetic. Announcing disappointment in Netenyahu, knowing full well that Israel's plans do not involve a two state solution and never will. They, and their lapdog media are treating people as if we are stupid beyond belief.
Even by some miracle, there was the slightest hope of a two state solution, it died when the Palestinian death toll reached a certain level. Only the annihilation of the Israeli far right could result in there being a two state solution. Literally their deaths.
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To take just one of those issues that "makes no sense", HB, and attempt to make sense of it. The Iran/Pakistan imbroglio exposes and hints at other motives.
Who was bombed in Pakistan by Iran?
Who was bombed "in response" by Pakistan in Iran?
The answers to the above two questions reveal much and beg many more questions.
In both cases it was Balochi separatists that were bombed. Balochis are used and sponsored, much like the Kurds, to stir up trouble in countries that Empire has targeted. Pakistan is heavily infiltrated by western intel agencies, this is no secret. It is what led to the ousting of Imran Khan.
So to sum up. Iran bombed "separatists" who are nothing more than western sponsored agitators who are a problem to themselves and Pakistan, in Pakistan. Had Iran attacked the "separatists" within their own borders, there would have been a chorus of "bombing their own citizens, human rights abuses etc" from the usual suspects(UK, US, EU, NATO et al). The same applies to Pakistan.
A cynic could be led into believing that a bit of "mutual back scratching" just took place. Make all the correct diplomatic noises for plausible denialibility. Pakistan is deeply infiltrated by CIA but they are not the only players in the game. I think that Pakistan and Iran did a spot of mutual "in-house" cleaning rather than being on the brink of war.
And right on cue;
https://twitter.com/IranObserver0/status/1749374974102470934
"The ambassadors of Iran and Pakistan will return to their respective embassies by 26 January
Pakistan has also invited Iran's foreign minister to visit the country"
I think that it is now safe to say that a bunch of "US assets" in the border regions of Pakistan/Iran just got taken out. Recalling their ambassadors for a matter of days followed by high level invites. There never was any dispute between Iran/Pakistan, just some theatre with the side effect of destroying US assets and the US with no way of responding.
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I don't think a two state solution is possible. One state, one person, one vote. European Zionist Jewish supremacists are the issue, Steve, hence their current imbroglio with the ICJ on the small matter of committing genocide, which you expect to go against them. What you refuse to grasp, is that Israel are an occupying power and that the Palestinians are occupied. It ends soon.
You overlook way too much history and are way out of your depth in your pathetic attempts to whitewash western and Zionist war crimes which you simply ignore. Your latest gambit, blaming what you call "ordinary Gazans", in order to excuse/ignore the clear crimes against humanity being committed by your pet colonialists is low even for you, but to be expected.
Well we have something in common at least.
Israel left Gaza in 2005.
I overlook history? The Jews have been in the Holy Land for 3500 years, millennia before Islam was ever founded.
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ICJ to deliver its order on provisional measures on Friday at 1pm
https://twitter.com/CIJ_ICJ/status/1750206652295303313
Here are the provisional measures being requested again;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q965Efc-OI0&t=12s
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https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf
Link to the "Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the crime of Genocide" referred to in the, "Provisional measures being requested" video linked earlier
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https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgmlAqpMKL
ICJ ruling. Utterly damns Israel and by extension those who support the now established genocidal war crimes of the Zionist entity. This order of provisional measures by the ICJ has the effect of making any who supply and support Israel's crimes against humanity complicit in the genocide.
Any humanitarian aid convoys arranged by groups of countries to help prevent the genocide in Gaza now have the legitimacy of the ICJ ruling affirming their rights and obligations under the Genocide Convention to act to prevent a genocide. Should Israel or any western countries or coalition attempt to prevent this then they are complicit.
With Israel already having made clear that they will "not be stopped by anyone including the ICJ", this could get interesting very quickly.
I expect a coalition of countries to act in accordance with the ICJ measures and their own obligations as signatories of the "Genocide Convention" by arranging aid to Gaza. The question then becomes-What will Israel's western sponsors do, if and when Israel attempt to stop aid entering? Will western governments defy the ICJ? What would be the ramifications of that?
The Zionists and their supporters are rapidly becoming international pariahs. What happens next?
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https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgmlAqpMKL
ICJ ruling. Utterly damns Israel and by extension those who support the now established genocidal war crimes of the Zionist entity. This order of provisional measures by the ICJ has the effect of making any who supply and support Israel's crimes against humanity complicit in the genocide.
Any humanitarian aid convoys arranged by groups of countries to help prevent the genocide in Gaza now have the legitimacy of the ICJ ruling affirming their rights and obligations under the Genocide Convention to act to prevent a genocide. Should Israel or any western countries or coalition attempt to prevent this then they are complicit.
With Israel already having made clear that they will "not be stopped by anyone including the ICJ", this could get interesting very quickly.
I expect a coalition of countries to act in accordance with the ICJ measures and their own obligations as signatories of the "Genocide Convention" by arranging aid to Gaza. The question then becomes-What will Israel's western sponsors do, if and when Israel attempt to stop aid entering? Will western governments defy the ICJ? What would be the ramifications of that?
The Zionists and their supporters are rapidly becoming international pariahs. What happens next?
It's an interim judgement. Of course the judges are under pressure, and have to do something to justify their high salaries.
I note the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) is now under investigation by the US state department for various issues. https://www.timesofisrael.com/watchdog-schools-run-by-pa-celebrated-oct-7-hamas-massacres/
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It's an interim judgement. Of course the judges are under pressure, and have to do something to justify their high salaries.
I note the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) is now under investigation by the US state department for various issues. https://www.timesofisrael.com/watchdog-schools-run-by-pa-celebrated-oct-7-hamas-massacres/
Yes of course, Steve, the US state dept. investigating a complaint made by a state who have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges and are subject to provisional measures would be worth noting to a genocide apologist. Talk about clutching at straws. Pathetic. You clearly fail to grasp the significance of today's ruling on provisional measures. Imagining that a "US state Department investigation" is in any way noteworthy when talking about an ICJ judgement on Genocide is delusional.
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Yes of course, Steve, the US state dept. investigating a complaint made by a state who have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges and are subject to provisional measures would be worth noting to a genocide apologist. Talk about clutching at straws. Pathetic. You clearly fail to grasp the significance of today's ruling on provisional measures. Imagining that a "US state Department investigation" is in any way noteworthy when talking about an ICJ judgement on Genocide is delusional.
You are misinformed as usual. https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-sacks-staffers-who-allegedly-participated-in-oct-7-attack-us-halts-funding/
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You are misinformed as usual. https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-sacks-staffers-who-allegedly-participated-in-oct-7-attack-us-halts-funding/
You just linked to a story that confirmed what I said. You are out of your depth, as usual. A US State Department investigation isn't the news today or any day. Israel have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges by the ICJ. The US State Department bs is a timed distraction useful only to distract the gullible such as yourself.
There are important and huge ramifications of this order, such as, any states supplying Israel with military aid after this is likely to find themselves as co-defendants under article III of the convention;
Article 3
The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d ) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.
This judgement will have consequences over the next days/weeks which are significant. It needs to be noted that the ruling is binding not only on Israel, who will obviously ignore it, but it is also binding on every signatory to Genocide Convention(the entire UN). All signatories are bound to not only punish genocide but also to prevent genocide. This ruling compels other states to act in order to prevent genocide. Arms sales would now certainly be seen as "complicity" given the ICJ ruling.
The duty of signatory states to enact legislation to incorporate "genocide convention" into their own national laws means any act contravening this order can be brought in the state where any act was committed (Articles V & VI of Genocide Convention). In other words, any act in the UK supporting Israel's genocide is now open to prosecution.
NGB's opinion, or anyone with an informed view on the legal ramifications of this, would be enlightening and more worthwhile than any reply from Steve.
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Israel will root out Hamas. There will be collateral damage. Strange there was no hysteria from yourself when Russia ignored the ICJ in 2022. https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/russia-rejects-international-court-ruling-to-stop-invasion-of-ukraine/
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Israel will root out Hamas. There will be collateral damage. Strange there was no hysteria from yourself when Russia ignored the ICJ in 2022. https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/russia-rejects-international-court-ruling-to-stop-invasion-of-ukraine/
The "collateral damage" that you speak of has been established to not be "collateral damage" but deliberate, targeted and part of an ongoing genocide. The statements of Israeli officials making genocidal statements publicly and calling for the eradication of the Palestinians which were read out in the court establishing the intent. The ICJ has also ordered that Israel prosecute those who have made genocidal statements. The Palestinians currently being murdered by the Zionist regime are not collateral damage by any stretch, Steve. You and I both know that Israel strategy is to punish the civilian population. Their President, Prime Minister and Defence Minister have all helpfully made public statements to this effect which were read out in the court. It is these statements that helped largely to establish Israeli intent. You shame yourself to call those Palestinians under this onslaught, "collateral damage". Israel is finished as a state, Steve. They will not "root out" Hamas as you call it, they are the best recruiter Hamas could have.
Your conflation of this case with the 2022 case against Russia is desperate and irrelevant. Two different cases on entirely different matters is not the "gotcha" you imagine it to be. If you want to discuss the 2022 case against Russia and have anything to say then start a thread on the Russia board and "share your thoughts" on the matter.
Why are you more interested in discussing other matters (US state dept investigations :-[ and previous unconnected ICJ cases) than the matter at hand? There are going to be many repercussions and consequences of this ruling. You are very easily distracted by irrelevancies.
The ICJ judgement is the starting gun for other countries to now act and prevent Israel's ongoing crimes. Algeria, one of the current 10 rotating members of the Security Council, are bringing a resolution to Security Council to make the ICJ ruling binding. Should the US dig their hole deeper and veto the resolution then there are are mechanisms to act without Security council resolutions via the General Assembly. The ICJ ruling specifically on the "Punishment and Prevention of Genocide" opens these possibilities.
Israel and their western co conspirators are becoming more isolated and acquiring pariah status.
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The "collateral damage" that you speak of has been established to not be "collateral damage" but deliberate, targeted and part of an ongoing genocide. The statements of Israeli officials making genocidal statements publicly and calling for the eradication of the Palestinians which were read out in the court establishing the intent. The ICJ has also ordered that Israel prosecute those who have made genocidal statements. The Palestinians currently being murdered by the Zionist regime are not collateral damage by any stretch, Steve. You and I both know that Israel strategy is to punish the civilian population. Their President, Prime Minister and Defence Minister have all helpfully made public statements to this effect which were read out in the court. It is these statements that helped largely to establish Israeli intent. You shame yourself to call those Palestinians under this onslaught, "collateral damage". Israel is finished as a state, Steve. They will not "root out" Hamas as you call it, they are the best recruiter Hamas could have.
Your conflation of this case with the 2022 case against Russia is desperate and irrelevant. Two different cases on entirely different matters is not the "gotcha" you imagine it to be. If you want to discuss the 2022 case against Russia and have anything to say then start a thread on the Russia board and "share your thoughts" on the matter.
Why are you more interested in discussing other matters (US state dept investigations :-[ and previous unconnected ICJ cases) than the matter at hand? There are going to be many repercussions and consequences of this ruling. You are very easily distracted by irrelevancies.
The ICJ judgement is the starting gun for other countries to now act and prevent Israel's ongoing crimes. Algeria, one of the current 10 rotating members of the Security Council, are bringing a resolution to Security Council to make the ICJ ruling binding. Should the US dig their hole deeper and veto the resolution then there are are mechanisms to act without Security council resolutions via the General Assembly. The ICJ ruling specifically on the "Punishment and Prevention of Genocide" opens these possibilities.
Israel and their western co conspirators are becoming more isolated and acquiring pariah status.
The genocide accusation is a smokescreen for allowing the residents of Gaza to continue harbouring the terrorist organization Hamas. Nobody can allow Hamas to regroup and cause another October 7. By the way: what is your and ngb1066's opinion on October 7? There was some hush for a few days: then the anti-Semitic vitriol continued.
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There was no hush although there ought to be from you. To claim that the genocide accusation is a smokescreen demonstrates your disinterest in the truth. The case was very well made at the ICJ linking the directed killings by Israel and statements by Israeli officials. The ICJ and world opinion agrees that the wholesale and indiscriminate killing and statements by Israeli President, PM etc unarguably meet the criteria of establishing the genocide and the intent to commit genocide. Civilian deaths measured in tens of thousands. Directed and deliberate killing of journalists, medics, UN staff in record numbers. 2 million people displaced and Israel openly advertising their plans to remove permanently the Palestinian population.
You are deaf, dumb and blind to these realities. You simply ignore uncomfortable facts.
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There was no hush although there ought to be from you. To claim that the genocide accusation is a smokescreen demonstrates your disinterest in the truth. The case was very well made at the ICJ linking the directed killings by Israel and statements by Israeli officials. The ICJ and world opinion agrees that the wholesale and indiscriminate killing and statements by Israeli President, PM etc unarguably meet the criteria of establishing the genocide and the intent to commit genocide. Civilian deaths measured in tens of thousands. Directed and deliberate killing of journalists, medics, UN staff in record numbers. 2 million people displaced and Israel openly advertising their plans to remove permanently the Palestinian population.
You are deaf, dumb and blind to these realities. You simply ignore uncomfortable facts.
..and what about your deaf and dumbness to Hezbollah and Hamas? Why aren't other Muslim nations (numbering 2 billion population) taking in their brothers and sisters? Why are the Qatari paymasters subjecting Gazans to the retribution they knew would come?
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You just linked to a story that confirmed what I said. You are out of your depth, as usual. A US State Department investigation isn't the news today or any day. Israel have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges by the ICJ. The US State Department bs is a timed distraction useful only to distract the gullible such as yourself.
There are important and huge ramifications of this order, such as, any states supplying Israel with military aid after this is likely to find themselves as co-defendants under article III of the convention;
Article 3
The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d ) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.
This judgement will have consequences over the next days/weeks which are significant. It needs to be noted that the ruling is binding not only on Israel, who will obviously ignore it, but it is also binding on every signatory to Genocide Convention(the entire UN). All signatories are bound to not only punish genocide but also to prevent genocide. This ruling compels other states to act in order to prevent genocide. Arms sales would now certainly be seen as "complicity" given the ICJ ruling.
The duty of signatory states to enact legislation to incorporate "genocide convention" into their own national laws means any act contravening this order can be brought in the state where any act was committed (Articles V & VI of Genocide Convention). In other words, any act in the UK supporting Israel's genocide is now open to prosecution.
NGB's opinion, or anyone with an informed view on the legal ramifications of this, would be enlightening and more worthwhile than any reply from Steve.
I agree entirely with your detailed assessment of this.
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I agree entirely with your detailed assessment of this.
Thanks for that, ngb. I have more to add on the legal ramifications and possible legal avenues now open to those opposing the genocide. Where I am wrong or on more contentious ground, I would welcome your clarification/correction. Sort of, "marking my homework". I am "winging it" somewhat, having never previously felt the need to have any understanding of the "Genocide Convention" nor its incorporation into domestic law. We definitely have not seen the end of this ruling. It's after effects will soon have a momentum all of their own.
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ICJ ruling. Utterly damns Israel and by extension those who support the now established genocidal war crimes of the Zionist entity.
Is this is the same ICJ that rejected Yugoslavia's case against the US/NATO in 1999? Later ruling that Yugoslavia committed genocide against Muslims in Bosnia (something you deny). Thus their counterparts (also at the Hauge) have Karadzic locked up and now have issued an international arrest warrant for your hero?
That ICJ? :))
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No condemnation of China either, or half-hearted compared to Gaza. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide
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Is this is the same ICJ that rejected Yugoslavia's case against the US/NATO in 1999? Later ruling that Yugoslavia committed genocide against Muslims in Bosnia (something you deny). Thus their counterparts (also at the Hauge) have Karadzic locked up and now have issued an international arrest warrant for your hero?
That ICJ? :))
The ICJ did not rule that Yugoslavia committed genocide, so as is usual, you are wrong. It is way more nuanced ruling than you are capable of comprehending hence your dumb one line takes. The ruling was that Yugoslavia were not guilty of the act of genocide or complicity in genocide. The failure to prevent genocide on the specific case of Srebenica is way more nuanced than a simple black/white analysis would suffice.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2007/02/210142
Equating the ICC and the ICJ (counterparts?) is the sort of ill informed nonsense to be expected from you. The ICJ has more credibility and is way less politicised and biased than the ICC. The ICJ is an official arm of the UN, unlike the ICC. The ICC is largely and widely seen as discredited and biased towards western states and many countries are not signatories to the ICC, including the US and Russia who withdrew in 2016. The US have never been members. The US have in fact gone much further than simply being being non signatories to the ICC. They also have the "Hague Invasion Act" which allows the US to invade the Hague should the ICC have the temerity to ever prosecute any Americans or their allies. This is not a serious and non-partisan court and is widely and justifiably regarded as biased.
The ICC arrest warrant for Putin is so obviously a politically concocted charge that it has no credibility outside of western propaganda value. It has nothing to do with the ICJ, nor the UN. The most relevant countries are non signatories to the ICC.
Are you still claiming that I have misquoted the Israeli President, Prime minister and Defence Minister? I shared their quotes earlier and you accused me of misrepresentation and providing wrongly translated quotes. Interestingly those same exact quotes were read out in the ICJ in order to establish intent of genocide by the South African representatives and were uncontested by the Israelis. You'd best get on to the ICJ and Israeli representatives to correct them as they all appear to have made the same mistake as me, David.
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The excellent Norman Finkelstein talking about Israel's bumbling UK lawyer, Malcolm Shaw;
"I find him a particularly revolting character, he has the moral stature of something between a used car salesman and a personal injury lawyer..."[/b]
Lol