Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on September 16, 2023, 10:39:PM
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Suspect not. Treatable yes.
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Suspect not. Treatable yes.
Manageable.
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Sheila was 27 & should be at her physical peak. However was in a terrible physical condition.
Can only think she would have got worse over the years.
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The medical bills would have been expensive. Along with the cost of supporting Sheila, Daniel & Nicholas.
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Haloperodal is still in use now. So a miracle cure has not surfaced.
Jeremy in 1985 would not be thinking about miracle cures. To him Sheila would be supported for the rest of her life. Daniel & Nicholas for another 15 years.
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Sheila was 27 & should be at her physical peak. However was in a terrible physical condition.
Can only think she would have got worse over the years.
I'm told medical professionals believe schizophrenia may abate in old age. I'm sceptical myself and believe she would always have had to rely on anti-psychotic medication for stabilization.
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The medical bills would have been expensive. Along with the cost of supporting Sheila, Daniel & Nicholas.
NHS?
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NHS?
Sheila did have NHS treatment in London, but Nevill frowned upon the service in general.
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Sheila did have NHS treatment in London, but Nevill frowned upon the service in general.
Didn't her local GP moniter Sheila and prescribe her medications Steve?
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Seems that Sheila had been seriously ill for 3-4 years. No possibility of a full recovery.
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Suspect not. Treatable yes.
I found this:
This rule suggests that about 25% of people with schizophrenia will recover completely from the first episode and go on to have no further problems in their life. A further 25% will be substantially improved with treatment and will go on to recover almost all of their former level of functioning with very few relapse events.
Another 25% of people will improve somewhat but will still need considerable levels of support to function normally and to get them through relapse events which will occur at several intervals in their life. This leaves the final 25% for whom the outlook is not so good. Of these, 15% will lead a chronic course with little or no improvement and involving repeated hospital stays over a prolonged part of their adult life, whilst the final 10% will die usually by their own hand
Of course drug taking greatly makes the situation much worse.
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Sheila was 27 & should be at her physical peak. However was in a terrible physical condition.
Can only think she would have got worse over the years.
Well the autopsy suggests a well nourished female
Just stopping you before you embark on a trolling attempt
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Shelia was also very attractive and pretty.
She was in no way a bad physical condition
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It was also the 1980s when attitudes to mental health were in its infancy. Back then I remember the turn of phrase used was " they are radged" I'm sure anybody south of Derbyshire had a similar expression.
Shelia had the advantage of good mental health care for the time and a strong supportive family unit. Namely her parents.
Friends as well, who were close to her who appeared in the theroux documentary
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It's obvious that there is a strong possibility that Shelias mental health problems formulated in her relationship with her mother. Due to Ostensibly the latters near obsession with religion
CAL states the " devils child " remark to Shelia by June was the catalyst.
Me personally I am undecided as I believe it could have manifested in other areas in Shelias life as well.
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It's obvious that there is a strong possibility that Shelias mental health problems formulated in her relationship with her mother. Due to Ostensibly the latters near obsession with religion
CAL states the " devils child " remark to Shelia by June was the catalyst.
Me personally I am undecided as I believe it could have manifested in other areas in Shelias life as well.
I think you've hit the nail very squarely on its head. Could the voices Sheila heard have been June's strictures, moral and religious threatening and powerful, interrupting her own thought processes? Several years ago I did some work on adopted children who had schizophrenia. I'm not certain what it proved because there was no way of knowing if these children were genetically disposed, but there seems to have been a high degree of cases.
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Shelia was also very attractive and pretty.
She was in no way a bad physical condition
She was in a terrible physical and mental condition -
No balance.
No muscle co ordination.
No strength.
No hand to eye co ordination.
Very docile.
Unable to get off sofas without help.
Recovering anorexic.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Involuntary movements.
Unable to do a job.
Long stays inside hospitals.
On Haloperidal.
No interaction with people.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos.
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Lamb to the slaughter. More like mouse to the slaughter.
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I think you've hit the nail very squarely on its head. Could the voices Sheila heard have been June's strictures, moral and religious threatening and powerful, interrupting her own thought processes? Several years ago I did some work on adopted children who had schizophrenia. I'm not certain what it proved because there was no way of knowing if these children were genetically disposed, but there seems to have been a high degree of cases.
Thought her condition was a physical condition. More something you are born with.
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I think you've hit the nail very squarely on its head. Could the voices Sheila heard have been June's strictures, moral and religious threatening and powerful, interrupting her own thought processes? Several years ago I did some work on adopted children who had schizophrenia. I'm not certain what it proved because there was no way of knowing if these children were genetically disposed, but there seems to have been a high degree of cases.
I think schizophrenia has a genetic element making some people more predisposed to it, the person is often fine until substance/drug abuse brings on the condition.
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I think schizophrenia has a genetic element making some people more predisposed to it, the person is often fine until substance/drug abuse brings on the condition.
OR until they're put in a position where their natural inclinations are continually suppressed by a more powerful figure. They may strive very hard to be what's expected of them -I imagine this to be a stronger response in adopted children- but when it comes to nature/nurture, I suspect that, eventually, nature will win, albeit not without a fight. Sadly, this is often the point at which substance/drug/alcohol abuse takes a hold.
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She was in a terrible physical and mental condition -
No balance.
No muscle co ordination.
No strength.
No hand to eye co ordination.
Very docile.
Unable to get off sofas without help.
Recovering anorexic.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Involuntary movements.
Unable to do a job.
Long stays inside hospitals.
On Haloperidal.
No interaction with people.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos.
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Lamb to the slaughter. More like mouse to the slaughter.
Purely speculative.
Shelia mixed and socialised and was able to walk around unaided. She was a former model. She was a regular on the London club scene.
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Purely speculative.
Shelia mixed and socialised and was able to walk around unaided. She was a former model. She was a regular on the London club scene.
All 100% true, but do we know when she'd last modelled, last been clubbing? It seems there may have been a drastic change since her last breakdown. Colin claims to have not seen her happier since the birth of the boys, when she met with Christine. What happened after Christine left? From what has been said of Sheila during her last fortnight, she sounds as if she'd gone into a downwards spiral.
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Ronnie Kray put on weight with his illness,and no word of being tatally crippled.All this nonsense with Sheila is merely to claim she didn't have the strength or coordination to kill anyone.
Ronnie still managed to dish out a few beatings while on his medication.
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Purely speculative.
Shelia mixed and socialised and was able to walk around unaided. She was a former model. She was a regular on the London club scene.
It is all fact from what people have said.
Yes she was a 'former' model.
Regular on the London club scene? She had no balance, muscle coordination or energy.
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Ronnie Kray put on weight with his illness,and no word of being tatally crippled.All this nonsense with Sheila is merely to claim she didn't have the strength or coordination to kill anyone.
Ronnie still managed to dish out a few beatings while on his medication.
To what "'nonsense'" do you refer, Snow?
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To what "'nonsense'" do you refer, Snow?
All that rubbish that Adam keeps stating,especially about anorexia.You would think she had the appearence of a drug addict with a skeletal face and body,not so,like Ronnie Kray she had a slightly puffy face and her body was by no means thin.
And you dont put well nourished on an autopsy report if someone has an eating disorder,do you Jane?
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All that rubbish that Adam keeps stating,especially about anorexia.You would think she had the appearence of a drug addict with a skeletal face and body,not so,like Ronnie Kray she had a slightly puffy face and her body was by no means thin.
And you dont put well nourished on an autopsy report if someone has an eating disorder,do you Jane?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/lack-of-appeal&ved=2ahUKEwjijOndyLGBAxUiWUEAHay6DQQQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw37Kc9EYk8b81Ik2gJCJSbZ
She was a recovering anorexic.
Appreciate supporters have to refute facts regarding Sheila's condition.
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Poor Sheila looked so thin in the crime scene photos, 27 going on 14.
She died well norished. June had been travelling to London to buy her food and feeding her at WHF!
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All that rubbish that Adam keeps stating,especially about anorexia.You would think she had the appearence of a drug addict with a skeletal face and body,not so,like Ronnie Kray she had a slightly puffy face and her body was by no means thin.
And you dont put well nourished on an autopsy report if someone has an eating disorder,do you Jane?
Like alcoholics, anorexics are only ever in recovery and just one tiny step away from danger. There is on picture -I imagine it's on here- in which Sheila looks particularly ill and frail.
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Wonder what well norished refers to. The last 24 hours of eating?
No surprise, June was cooking. Even Jeremy popped over for a bite.
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Wonder what well norished refers to. The last 24 hours of eating?
No surprise, June was cooking. Even Jeremy popped over for a bite.
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ILB does not have an answer.
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It's obvious that there is a strong possibility that Shelias mental health problems formulated in her relationship with her mother. Due to Ostensibly the latters near obsession with religion
CAL states the " devils child " remark to Shelia by June was the catalyst.
Me personally I am undecided as I believe it could have manifested in other areas in Shelias life as well.
It's possible, though I doubt Sheila's ideation of herself as Joan of Arc or the Virgin Mary could have stemmed from June, however forceful the castigation of her became. I'm sure there's a genetic component to the illness, which brings me to her father. In one of the books he was supposed to be a low-ranking churchman, in another an industrial cleaner from Surrey.
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Like alcoholics, anorexics are only ever in recovery and just one tiny step away from danger. There is on picture -I imagine it's on here- in which Sheila looks particularly ill and frail.
There's a chapter in Claire Powell's book about the insecurity of the girls in the modelling world. I wonder if Sheila ever aspired to be in that cut-throat world of ever-increasing insecurities, or recognized how false it really was, or maybe she was just dippy and forgot to eat meals at regular times.
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Can only think 'well norished' means she had eaten well that day. Fed by June.
All of her organs would be working. She was 27, alive and not a heavy drinker or smoker.
She was very thin and small going by the crime scene photos. But a recovering rather than an actual anorexic.
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Being 'well norished' has no impact on her balance, body and eye co ordination, lack of energy & alertness, strength, involuntary movement, reliant on strong medical drugs issues.
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Being 'well norished' has no impact on her balance, body and eye co ordination, lack of energy & alertness, strength, involuntary movement, reliant on strong medical drugs issues.
Many drugs do have side-effects, such as weight gain. You only have to look at a pack of Nurofen to read a list of disclaimers as long as your arm.
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Can only think 'well norished' means she had eaten well that day. Fed by June.
All of her organs would be working. She was 27, alive and not a heavy drinker or smoker.
She was very thin and small going by the crime scene photos. But a recovering rather than an actual anorexic.
Well nourished means she was of the correct weight and build for a woman her age
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Well nourished means she was of the correct weight and build for a woman her age
Can all interpret it how we want.
But will have no impact on her balance, body and eye co ordination, lack of energy & alertness, strength, involuntary movement & reliant on strong sedative medical drugs.
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Can all interpret it how we want.
But will have no impact on her balance, body and eye co ordination, lack of energy & alertness, strength, involuntary movement & reliant on strong sedative medical drugs.
What you have described would have rendered her bed bound or at a push certainly housebound.
Not fit or healthy enough to embark on a trip to Essex.
She would have stayed at the flat you know this
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Shelia was skipping down pages lane the day of the killings seen by Len Fowkes.
Shelia also was shopping for jeans
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Can all interpret it how we want.
Interpretation or reality?
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What you have described would have rendered her bed bound or at a push certainly housebound.
Not fit or healthy enough to embark on a trip to Essex.
She would have stayed at the flat you know this
All facts.
CC drove them there. June & Nevill would look after her.
Gives June a break from travelling to London to do Sheila's food shopping.
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Shelia was skipping down pages lane the day of the killings seen by Len Fowkes.
Shelia also was shopping for jeans
Apparently skipping a few feet does not negate her poor balance, body and eye co ordination, lack of energy & alertness, strength, involuntary movement, reliant on strong medical drugs issues.
Unless she was skipping like Iron Mike.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/lack-of-appeal&ved=2ahUKEwjijOndyLGBAxUiWUEAHay6DQQQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw37Kc9EYk8b81Ik2gJCJSbZ
She was a recovering anorexic.
Appreciate supporters have to refute facts regarding Sheila's condition.
Is there any other documentation of anorexia Adam,I mean is it a recognised FACT by both guilt and innocence supporters that Sheila had the condition?
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All facts.
CC drove them there. June & Nevill would look after her.
Gives June a break from travelling to London to do Sheila's food shopping.
Yes they are facts
Meaning Shelia was well enough to go so not what you described
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Yes they are facts
Meaning Shelia was well enough to go so not what you described
Well enough to be taken & looked after by adults.
She was no longer in hospital.
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Well enough to be taken & looked after by adults.
She was no longer in hospital.
Do you think Len Fowkes is a liar?
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Supporters counters on Sheila's terrible condition -
She skipped a few feet.
June cooked her a good meal that night.
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Roll on June and Nevill being over powered.
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Supporters counters on Sheila's terrible condition -
She skipped a few feet.
June cooked her a good meal that night.
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Roll on June and Nevill being over powered.
Do you think Len fowkes is a liar ?
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Sheila skipping a few feet and having a good meal does not negate -
No balance.
No muscle co ordination.
No strength.
No hand to eye co ordination.
Very docile.
Unable to get off sofas without help.
Recovering anorexic.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Involuntary movements.
Unable to do a job.
Long stays inside hospitals.
On Haloperidal.
No interaction with people.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos.
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These are serious conditions. Of which she spent months in hospital for.
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Sheila skipping a few feet and having a good meal does not negate -
No balance.
No muscle co ordination.
No strength.
No hand to eye co ordination.
Very docile.
Unable to get off sofas without help.
Recovering anorexic.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Involuntary movements.
Unable to do a job.
Long stays inside hospitals.
On Haloperidal.
No interaction with people.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos.
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These are serious conditions. Of which she spent months in hospital for.
Can't get off sofas but can travel to Essex and go shopping for jeans.....
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She was in hospital for mental health problems
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Can't get off sofas but can travel to Essex and go shopping for jeans.....
She will have her good and bad moments.
Bamber knew she was ready and rang Julie.
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Can't get off sofas but can travel to Essex and go shopping for jeans.....
Have you read shopkeeper Barry Parker's account of the incident?
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Whenever I hear the word anorexia I always think of the tragedy of Karen Carpenter. https://youtu.be/7nLzRNXQhco
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Have you read shopkeeper Barry Parker's account of the incident?
I have indeed
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Can't get off sofas but can travel to Essex and go shopping for jeans.....
Surprised Nevill only had 40+ injuries from the kitchen attack.
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Do you think Len fowkes is a liar ?
As I said I have never seen anyone skipping before. Except Iron Mike with a rope.
Suspect Sheila was just walking in a good mood. Were the twins with her?
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I have indeed
Then you will know that Sheila wasn't all there, so to speak.
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Can't get off sofas but can travel to Essex and go shopping for jeans.....
Interpretations vary -as do recollections- of what constitutes being really ill or simply poorly.
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She will have her good and bad moments.
Bamber knew she was ready and rang Julie.
You see why would a calculating Bamber try to frame Shelia if he knew she was out of it ?
It's not exactly the perfect scapegoat is it?
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You see why would a calculating Bamber try to frame Shelia if he knew she was out of it ?
It's not exactly the perfect scapegoat is it?
No, but her closest relatives would be dead, paving the way for Jeremy to deliver his spiel unchallenged.
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You see why would a calculating Bamber try to frame Shelia if he knew she was out of it ?
It's not exactly the perfect scapegoat is it?
His only option.
But the relatives would not have it.
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If he is gulity then i believe he must have known from the outset that his version of events would be challenged. If Shelia was supposed to be " completely out of it "
He doesn't seem to have shared a close relationship with the relatives, So how could he bank on them believing him?
Can be only option three if used Shelia as a scapegoat, Bamber is thick as pig shit. Or was in 1985.
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If he is gulity then i believe he must have known from the outset that his version of events would be challenged. If Shelia was supposed to be " completely out of it "
He doesn't seem to have shared a close relationship with the relatives, So how could he bank on them believing him?
Can be only option three if used Shelia as a scapegoat, Bamber is thick as pig shit. Or was in 1985.
Surely he had to have believed he'd covered all bases?
He actually didn't need to tell any more than the truth -embroidered, naturally- because the relatives were already aware of Sheila's mental instability.
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Surely he had to have believed he'd covered all bases?
He actually didn't need to tell any more than the truth -embroidered, naturally- because the relatives were already aware of Sheila's mental instability.
All criminals think they have. Until convicted.
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Surely he had to have believed he'd covered all bases?
He actually didn't need to tell any more than the truth -embroidered, naturally- because the relatives were already aware of Sheila's mental instability.
He himself looking at either an innocent or gulity scenario created the fact that it was either him or his sister had done it. By the phonecall to West. It remains the fact to this day.
If Shelia was indeed out of it as Adam says. Then it is quite frankly stupid in trying to frame her as a killer. From a gulity Bamber perspective.
If this is the case, he wasn't calculating in my opinion. It's more cocky overconfident stupid and reckless
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His only option.
But the relatives would not have it.
I believe the arson scenario of what Julie suggested he said would have been better for him. Nevill falling asleep with a gin and tonic I think it was and with a lit cigarette.
Yes items lost of value, but I reckon if he had gone down this path is reckon hed be a free if gulity man today.
It would be put down as a tragic accident
Trying to frame someone who is " out of it" if she apparently was and he knew that is madness. In reference to a firearm massacre
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Surely he had to have believed he'd covered all bases?
He actually didn't need to tell any more than the truth -embroidered, naturally- because the relatives were already aware of Sheila's mental instability.
Did the Bambers keep any livestock or horses Jane?
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Did the Bambers keep any livestock or horses Jane?
Whilst I'm fairly convinced there was no livestock, I'm totally convinced there weren't any horses.
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All criminals think they have. Until convicted.
The opinion of Jeremy by every family member namely the boutflour or Eaton's is that he is a young man who likes money. RWB made emphasis that " he fully understood and new the value of money "
But taking Jeremy off topic for a second
Personally I believe between Nevill Bamber and Robert Boutflour and Peter Eaton there was a business war of somewhat going off. Not do much in rivalry but in terms of jealousy. It's clear that out of the three Nevill was the most successful. I also believe that nevill and RWB didn't have a close and friendly relationship as is made out
None of this ever came to complete fruition because the case was Jeremy Bamber either murdererd his family or his sister did. I'm not as a rule a conspiracy theorist and I call a spade or spade. But I'd bet my house that behind the scenes there something brewing between both sets of families. Mainly on the menfolk side of things
Ironically Jeremy being convicted has been a blessing in disguise for some parties involved. As crazy as it sounds
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Whilst I'm fairly convinced there was no livestock, I'm totally convinced there weren't any horses.
Thanks Jane,so most likely all arable then.
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The opinion of Jeremy by every family member namely the boutflour or Eaton's is that he is a young man who likes money. RWB made emphasis that " he fully understood and new the value of money "
But taking Jeremy off topic for a second
Personally I believe between Nevill Bamber and Robert Boutflour and Peter Eaton there was a business war of somewhat going off. Not do much in rivalry but in terms of jealousy. It's clear that out of the three Nevill was the most successful. I also believe that nevill and RWB didn't have a close and friendly relationship as is made out
None of this ever came to complete fruition because the case was Jeremy Bamber either murdererd his family or his sister did. I'm not as a rule a conspiracy theorist and I call a spade or spade. But I'd bet my house that behind the scenes there something brewing between both sets of families. Mainly on the menfolk side of things
Ironically Jeremy being convicted has been a blessing in disguise for some parties involved. As crazy as it sounds
I think RWB and NB had been friends since Ag college -the Royal Cirencester- where RWB's father was Principal/Dean. RWB was senior to NB and probably graduated first. He found work on the Speakman farm and when there was an opening for a junior manager, he recommended his friend NB. Eventually, both men went on to marry the Speakman sisters. All was probably well at the beginning, then, as in many relationships, cracks began to show. It may have been about NB having inherited wealth. It may have been about NB's business acumen. It may have been about RWB having children which no amount of wealth could rectify for NB. I imagine these important factors set the seeds of discontent and jealousy in RWB who may have assuaged it by reasoning that NB's wealth would eventually find its way to his family. I think it reasonable to believe his thoughts/beliefs would have been passed on to Ann -very much her father's daughter- who, in turn, would have passed them to her husband, PE.
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I believe the arson scenario of what Julie suggested he said would have been better for him. Nevill falling asleep with a gin and tonic I think it was and with a lit cigarette.
Yes items lost of value, but I reckon if he had gone down this path is reckon hed be a free if gulity man today.
It would be put down as a tragic accident
Trying to frame someone who is " out of it" if she apparently was and he knew that is madness. In reference to a firearm massacre
Burning down WHF was a non starter.
Agree it was not impossible for Sheila to load the rifle, let alone do everything else. But that just made her easier to control.
It was then a case of hopeing the likes of AE didn't push things.
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Burning down WHF was a non starter.
Agree it was impossible for Sheila to load the rifle, let alone do everything else. But that just made her easier to control.
It was then a case of hopeing the likes of AE didn't push things.
Disagree
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OR until they're put in a position where their natural inclinations are continually suppressed by a more powerful figure. They may strive very hard to be what's expected of them -I imagine this to be a stronger response in adopted children- but when it comes to nature/nurture, I suspect that, eventually, nature will win, albeit not without a fight. Sadly, this is often the point at which substance/drug/alcohol abuse takes a hold.
Maybe Jane you probably know more than me, I am partly going by personal experience and what I have read.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/lack-of-appeal&ved=2ahUKEwjijOndyLGBAxUiWUEAHay6DQQQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw37Kc9EYk8b81Ik2gJCJSbZ
She was a recovering anorexic.
Appreciate supporters have to refute facts regarding Sheila's condition.
Another unbiased and well balanced article I see Adam ???
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Maybe Jane you probably know more than me, I am partly going by personal experience and what I have read.
Well, I don't have all the answers but I remain convinced that things don't just happen. There's a reason for everything. The trick is finding it. Whether we believe JB or Sheila to be the culprit, both would have reasons that went back much further than the day's events. The nature/nurture debate is infinite.
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Whenever I hear the word anorexia I always think of the tragedy of Karen Carpenter. https://youtu.be/7nLzRNXQhco
Sheila was or used to be a model it is not surprising that she would be extraordinarily thin, especially in those days. Are you trying to make something out of nothing Steve?
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Sheila was or used to be a model it is not surprising that she would be extraordinarily thin, especially in those days. Are you trying to make something out of nothing Steve?
As Wallis Simpson said "A girl can never be too rich or too thin". Models back then lived on diets of cigarettes and black coffee. I imagine many lived on the edge of anorexia/bulimia.
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Sheila was or used to be a model it is not surprising that she would be extraordinarily thin, especially in those days. Are you trying to make something out of nothing Steve?
I would have thought the pressures were similar.
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This was taken a few months prior to the massacre. She looks a completely normal healthy ( physical wise )
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This was taken a few months prior to the massacre. She looks a completely normal healthy ( physical wise )
"A few months prior to the massacre"? Hang on a minute. She couldn't attend the Bambers for Christmas 1984 because she was unwell. She was taken into hospital at the end of February and was there for approximately a month. I doubt she looked as healthy as the woman in the picture when she came out. Indeed, that could be an entirely different person!
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"A few months prior to the massacre"? Hang on a minute. She couldn't attend the Bambers for Christmas 1984 because she was unwell. She was taken into hospital at the end of February and was there for approximately a month. I doubt she looked as healthy as the woman in the picture when she came out. Indeed, that could be an entirely different person!
I don't recognize either of them Jane. Is the photograph supposed to depict Sheila Caffell and Mabel Speakman?
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Come to think of it, isn't there photos of Sheila as a model. Looking fit?
That was only a few years earlier.
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"A few months prior to the massacre"? Hang on a minute. She couldn't attend the Bambers for Christmas 1984 because she was unwell. She was taken into hospital at the end of February and was there for approximately a month. I doubt she looked as healthy as the woman in the picture when she came out. Indeed, that could be an entirely different person!
It is Shelia in early 1985
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Then you will know that Sheila wasn't all there, so to speak.
He said she seemed strange if I recall correctly
Fact is she was mobile
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As Wallis Simpson said "A girl can never be too rich or too thin". Models back then lived on diets of cigarettes and black coffee. I imagine many lived on the edge of anorexia/bulimia.
Sheila was long past the modeling stage, when she was considerably thinner than she appears in the crime scene photos. There is plenty of meat on her in those pictures. Her face might even be described as a little bit pudgy. The photo of Mabel and Sheila shows that she had recovered from her brief modeling career and had fully regained her physical fitness.
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It is Shelia in early 1985
According to who? Where?
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Sheila was long past the modeling stage, when she was considerably thinner than she appears in the crime scene photos. There is plenty of meat on her in those pictures. Her face might even be described as a little bit pudgy. The photo of Mabel and Sheila shows that she had recovered from her brief modeling career and had fully regained her physical fitness.
Mabel was bedridden for sometime. This lady actually looks more like Nevill Bamber - how do we know it's not his mother (Beatrice)? That being the case, the picture would be before December 1981.
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Mabel was bedridden for sometime. This lady actually looks more like Nevill Bamber - how do we know it's not his mother (Beatrice)? That being the case, the picture would be before December 1981.
So which years was Sheila suffering from anorexia Zoso?
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Mabel was bedridden for sometime. This lady actually looks more like Nevill Bamber - how do we know it's not his mother (Beatrice)? That being the case, the picture would be before December 1981.
It is from 1985.
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Mabel was bedridden for sometime. This lady actually looks more like Nevill Bamber - how do we know it's not his mother (Beatrice)? That being the case, the picture would be before December 1981.
It is Mabel Speakman
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In any event.
Shelia was not skeletal
Shelia was no underweight at the time ( from the autopsy )
Shelia could walk unaided
Len Foakes saw her skipping down the lane that day.
-
Supporters justification that Sheila could overpower 2 fully fit stronger adults -
She was not wheelchair bound.
-
No balance - RB.
No muscle co ordination - RB.
No strength - RB.
No hand to eye co ordination -AE/RB.
Very docile PB, Bamber, AE.
Unable to get off sofas without help - CAL.
Twins with CC 95% of the time - CC
Recovering anorexic - Leo McKinsey.
June doing Sheila's shopping - RB.
Involuntary movements ' RB/Freddie.
Unable to do a job - Fact.
Long stays inside hospitals - Fact.
On Haloperidal - COA.
Unable to open a tin of beans - AE.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos - Crime scene photos.
No experience with rifle - Family.
Holding a rifle used for shooting rabbits - Fact.
Lifeless a few hours beforehand - Bamber, PB.
Unable to hold a glass one handed - RB/Freddie.
Up against a fully fit male - twice as strong - Fact.
Up against a fully fit stronger female - Fact.
Very docile - CC, Bamber, PB, June.
Non responsive to aledged fostering conversation - Bamber.
Was non responsive in phone conversation prior to bed - PB.
Nevill not having the severe physical and mental problems Sheila had - Fact.
June not having the severe physical or mental problems Sheila had - Fact.
Sheila having no footweare advantages over Nevill and June - Fact.
Twins complaining Sheila was non responsive to them - CC
-
Supporters justification that Sheila could overpower 2 fully fit stronger adults -
She was not wheelchair bound.
It was Sheila who was on a mission. Not Nevill and June. They were caught on the backfoot.
I can't imagine Nevill being motivated to batter his own beloved daughter. Sheila on the other hand was operating as if possessed. Different kettle of fish.
-
It was Sheila who was on a mission. Not Nevill and June. They were caught on the backfoot.
I can't imagine Nevill being motivated to batter his own beloved daughter. Sheila on the other hand was operating as if possessed. Different kettle of fish.
I don't think Sheila was ever on a mission. She drifted, latched onto things, couldn't hold down a job. Whether these were innate symptoms or exacerbated by schizophrenia is hard to say.
Sheila hearing voices, thinking she was Joan of Arc or the Virgin Mary, a Madonna complex, laughing inappropriately, not speaking on the way down to White House Farm. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xphnHCRgvOg?feature=share
-
These things are not relevant -
No balance.
No muscle co ordination.
No strength.
No hand to eye co ordination.
Very docile.
Unable to get off sofas without help.
Recovering anorexic.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Involuntary movements.
Unable to do a job.
Long stays inside hospitals.
On Haloperidal.
No interaction with people.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos.
No experience with rifle.
Lifeless a few hours beforehand.
Unable to hold a glass one handed.
Up against a fully fit male - twice as strong.
Up against a fully fit stronger female.
Because none of it is true
You are making Shelia our to be a zombie and almost wheelchair bound
That doesn't fit the day in event narrative.
-
Because none of it is true
You are making Shelia our to be a zombie and almost wheelchair bound
That doesn't fit the day in event narrative.
Actually that was Pamela's phrase in her witness statement, following her brief intercourse with Sheila on the telephone.
-
These things are not relevant -
No balance.
No muscle co ordination.
No strength.
No hand to eye co ordination.
Very docile.
Unable to get off sofas without help.
Recovering anorexic.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Involuntary movements.
Unable to do a job.
Long stays inside hospitals.
On Haloperidal.
No interaction with people.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos.
No experience with rifle.
Lifeless a few hours beforehand.
Unable to hold a glass one handed.
Up against a fully fit male - twice as strong.
Up against a fully fit stronger female.
Was non responsive to aledged fostering conversations.
Was non responsive in phone conversation prior to bed.
Have just added a couple of things. Will add as and when.
-
A fully functional woman could not have overpowered a fully fit Nevill and June.
Sheila was on 15%.
-
It is from 1985.
How do you know?
-
It is Mabel Speakman
?
-
Have just added a couple of things. Will add as and when.
Pure trolling no substance
-
How do you know?
Research
-
?
It is Mabel Speakman
-
Pure trolling no substance
All facts.
You have a right to support Bamber. But it must be on the basis of a MOJ. Not on innocence as Sheila did it.
Impossible for a woman functioning at 15% to overpower two stronger adults functioning at 100%. One a male.
-
Research
Please answer Zoso's question properly.
-
Please answer Zoso's question properly.
I did....
-
I did....
Please answer Zoso's question properly.
Otherwise the forum will assume it is not the case.
Final request.
-
Research
Then share it!
-
Please answer Zoso's question properly.
Otherwise the forum will assume it is not the case.
Final request.
I conducted research you tit. Hence the photo.
Idiot.
-
A fully functional woman could not have overpowered a fully fit Nevill and June.
Sheila was on 15%.
Adam is comparing Shelia to a video game character.
Talking about percentages.
Getting a little embarrassing
-
Please answer Zoso's question properly.
Otherwise the forum will assume it is not the case.
Final request.
ILB has lied again.
He is now using aggression as a deflection tactic to his lie.
-
Then share it!
Rob & ILB get carried away with their support. Making up things.
To be fair, ditto with lots of other supporters.
-
ILB has lied again.
He is now using aggression as a deflection tactic to his lie.
How have I lied? Please explain. How have I deflected Zoso asked me how I got the photo and I answered by research.....
-
Rob & ILB get carried away with their support. Making up things.
To be fair, ditto with lots of other supporters.
I have supplied a photo of Mabel Speakman and Shelia caffell....
-
This was taken a few months prior to the massacre. She looks a completely normal healthy ( physical wise )
No source has been supplied to back up this post. Despite repeated requests from two posters.
The post is dismissed.
To be honest, not that important. A few months is a few months.
Sheila was functioning at 15% on the night.
-
No source has been supplied to back up this post. Despite repeated requests from two posters.
The post is dismissed.
To be honest, not that important. A few months is a few months.
Sheila was functioning at 15% on the night.
I am not your encyclopedia.
Do your own research.
Shelia was not a video game character.
I have supplied a photo of Mabel speakman and Shelia Caffell. Via research. From 1985.
Furthermore you are challenging an official autopsy report that states Shelia caffell was a "well nourished female"
Laughable
-
15 percent....
What a load of bollocks...
-
I am not your encyclopedia.
Do your own research.
Shelia was not a video game character.
I have supplied a photo of Mabel speakman and Shelia Caffell. Via research. From 1985.
Furthermore you are challenging an official autopsy report that states Shelia caffell was a "well nourished female"
Laughable
You lied again.
-
You lied again.
No you lied pal.
A skeletal Shelia
Laughable
-
15 percent....
What a load of bollocks...
I have given you 20 facts.
You need to move away from Sheila committing the massacre. It is making you look like an idiot.
Being at 15% will not overpower two much stronger people at 100%.
-
I have given you 20 facts.
You need to move away from Sheila committing the massacre. It is making you look like an idiot.
Being at 15% will not overpower two much stronger people at 100%.
You have given falsehoods!
It's you whose looking the idiot!
-
You have given falsehoods!
It's you whose looking the idiot!
A fully fit Nevill or June would instantly reclaim the rifle from Sheila. Like taking sweets off a child.
It was for shooting rabbits.
-
A fully fit Nevill or June would instantly reclaim the rifle from Sheila. Like taking sweets off a child.
It was for shooting rabbits.
Now June a diminutive 61 year old is now wonderwoman
34 percent ?
-
No balance - RB.
No muscle co ordination - RB.
No strength - RB.
No hand to eye co ordination -AE/RB.
Very docile PB, Bamber, AE.
Unable to get off sofas without help - CAL.
Recovering anorexic - Leo McKinsey.
June doing Sheila's shopping - RB.
Involuntary movements ' RB/Freddie.
Unable to do a job - Fact.
Long stays inside hospitals - Fact.
On Haloperidal - COA.
Unable to open a tin of beans - AE.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos - Crime scene photos.
No experience with rifle - Family.
Holding a rifle used for shooting rabbits - Fact.
Lifeless a few hours beforehand - Bamber, PB.
Unable to hold a glass one handed - RB/Freddie.
Up against a fully fit male - twice as strong - Fact.
Up against a fully fit stronger female - Fact.
Very docile - CC, Bamber, PB, June.
Non responsive to aledged fostering conversation - Bamber.
Was non responsive in phone conversation prior to bed - PB.
Nevill not having the severe physical and mental problems Sheila had - Fact.
June not having the severe physical or mental problems Sheila had - Fact.
Sheila having no footweare advantages over Nevill and June - Fact.
I have put a source for each point. In bold. Will add as and when.
ILB claimed 'none of it is true'.
Some of the points are facts. Accepted by both sides.
-
I have put a source for each point. In bold. Will add as and when.
ILB claimed 'none of it is true'.
Some of the points are facts. Accepted by both sides.
29 percent?
-
COA:
371.
The complaint under this ground of appeal is that there was in existence material that might have been relevant to Sheila's attitude towards her children in the form of a letter to Nevill Bamber drafted by Sheila's former husband, Colin Caffell (but never sent), shortly after her release from hospital on the 29 March.
That letter expressed his concern about the effect that Sheila's mental condition was having on her ability to look after the two boys properly, to pay attention to their needs and requirements, to get them off to school in time and generally take care of them.
He was also concerned about the influence that Mrs Bamber had upon the two boys. In fact, it appears from the evidence that he gave at trial that he himself was caring for the two children for about 95% of the time.
He was seeking Nevill Bamber's support in convincing Sheila that the boys should continue to stay with him most of the time, and that he should have full control over their well-being. It is to be noted that he and Sheila had joint custody of the children.
-
Sheila was released from hospital in March 85.
She was not able to look after herself or the twins.
The twins were with Colin 95% of the time and he wanted full control.
June was travelling to London to do Sheila's food shopping.
Colin drove everyone to WHF, where Sheila could be monitored by Nevill and June.
--------
Laura Croft!
-
How have I lied? Please explain. How have I deflected Zoso asked me how I got the photo and I answered by research.....
The forum is made up of people's research and it's built because people shared it. We all benefit from each others research. If you have a source what proves when the picture was taken and who the old lady is - then why wouldn't you share it? It's like the letter you wrote to Jeremy about the AP? I just don't get why you wouldn't share?
-
ILB gets carried away.
Repeatedly saying the Sea Wall could not be cycled at night. Which contradicts everyone.
He has never been there.
-
ILB gets carried away.
Repeatedly saying the Sea Wall could not be cycled at night. Which contradicts everyone.
He has never been there.
You gets cannonballed away, let alone carried.
You just troll the forum
-
When frustrated, ILB's criminal thug personality comes out.
Calling posters names or posting Gifs to try to goad. As he has done today and yesterday.
-
Even the twins complained how non responsive Sheila was. Says CC.
If she can't even focus on her own children, impossible to focus on overpowering two stronger adults.
-
When frustrated, ILB's criminal thug personality comes out.
Calling posters names or posting Gifs to try to goad. As he has done today and yesterday.
As a troll, it's the response your looking for.
Because you hate Bamber
-
When frustrated, ILB's criminal thug personality comes out.
Calling posters names or posting Gifs to try to goad. As he has done today and yesterday.
Why don't you buy him a pint Adam? You probably don't live a million miles from each other. I'm sure ILB is a reasonable bloke at heart.
-
Why don't you buy him a pint Adam? You probably don't live a million miles from each other. I'm sure ILB is a reasonable bloke at heart.
I'm the salt of the earth.
-
I'm the salt of the earth.
But not the salt of the forum if you can't share sources. You asked Adam to prove that someone could cycle to WHF along the sea wall but aren't prepared to back up your own post. If people aren't prepared to back up what they claim, what's the point of debating and, what's the point of the forum?
-
But not the salt of the forum if you can't share sources. You asked Adam to prove that someone could cycle to WHF along the sea wall but aren't prepared to back up your own post. If people aren't prepared to back up what they claim, what's the point of debating and, what's the point of the forum?
I haven't seen much evidence yet that Sheila was anorexic Zoso. Plenty claims though!
-
I haven't seen much evidence yet that Sheila was anorexic Zoso. Plenty claims though!
Where did I say she was anorexic?
-
There's nothing in the books about Sheila's anorexia. Did Doctor Hugh Cameron Ferguson ever mention it?
-
There's nothing in the books about Sheila's anorexia. Did Doctor Hugh Cameron Ferguson ever mention it?
In the recent picture posted of her she looks nowhere close to anorexic. One could almost say she looks to be in blooming, rude health.................but I'd stake my life on it not being taken "a few months before the massacre".
-
In the recent picture posted of her she looks nowhere close to anorexic. One could almost say she looks to be in blooming, rude health.................but I'd stake my life on it not being taken "a few months before the massacre".
There are many reasons why anorexia takes hold. I recall Karen Carpenter saying she didn't want to feel full before a concert, and sometime she would just forget to eat. It's difficult to know with Sheila exactly what and when she ate. Maybe June's parcels were a way of checking up on her daughter that she was at least receiving some nourishment.
-
Where did I say she was anorexic?
Its in the creepy fans article that Adam keeps posting,it states that Sheila was a recovering anorexic,but from what I have seen there is no documentation of her ever suffering from the eating disorder anywhere else.And seeing that long standing members like steve and yourself has no knowledge of Sheila having the disease I think we can take it that the creepy fans authors claim of anorexia is unfounded.
-
The crime scene photos shows a very frail Sheila. She had multiple physical problems. Being a recovering anorexic one of them.
-
The crime scene photos shows a very frail Sheila. She had multiple physical problems. Being a recovering anorexic one of them.
No other members seem to have seen any evidence or documentation that Sheila was anorexic Adam.
Is the creepy fans article your only source?
-
But not the salt of the forum if you can't share sources. You asked Adam to prove that someone could cycle to WHF along the sea wall but aren't prepared to back up your own post. If people aren't prepared to back up what they claim, what's the point of debating and, what's the point of the forum?
Adam offered that he had hundreds of sources. He offered that information. Not me
-
No other members seem to have seen any evidence or documentation that Sheila was anorexic Adam.
Is the creepy fans article your only source?
She is very slim in the white pants photograph. I wouldn't want anyone to get any thinner. https://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/celebrity-news/complicated-truth-behind-jeremy-bambers-21239481
-
No other members seem to have seen any evidence or documentation that Sheila was anorexic Adam.
Is the creepy fans article your only source?
The crime scene photos show she was very frail. June was doing her food shopping.
She had multiple physical problems.
-
The crime scene photos show she was very frail. June was doing her food shopping.
She had multiple physical problems.
She had multiple mental problems Adam,which affected her physical state to some degree!
-
She had multiple mental problems Adam,which affected her physical state to some degree!
It's no wonder Bamber called it "the perfect crime". You don't need to look far to see others with Sheila's psychiatric problems. Not that I believe she took her own life at White House Farm and chose to lie beside June. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrity/author-28-took-own-life-after-anxiety-became-entwined-with-success-coroner-rules/ar-AA1h7qRQ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d14f1260c100440d8b2175dd0385b393&ei=7
-
The crime scene photos show she was very frail. June was doing her food shopping.
She had multiple physical problems.
Yet the autopsy report states a well nourished female.
She was a normal height and weight.
-
Yet the autopsy report states a well nourished female.
She was a normal height and weight.
Anorexics can recover.
-
Yet the autopsy report states a well nourished female.
She was a normal height and weight.
Normal height but very frail.
-
Anorexics can recover.
I never said they couldn't
The fact of the matter is she was or a healthy weight at the time in question.
She was 28 years old, not 88
-
Normal height but very frail.
Normal weight.
-
Normal weight.
The crime scene photos show she was very frail.
Sadly no match for Bamber.
-
The crime scene photos show she was very frail.
Sadly no match for Bamber.
How do the crime scene photos show her to be frail?
-
How do the crime scene photos show her to be frail?
Thin arms, thin legs, small, tiny torso. Looking about 14.
-
Thin arms, thin legs, small, tiny torso. Looking about 14.
If she looked very thin to you Adam,you must like your women very well built indeed?
-
Obviously no match for a 12 stone fully dressed male Bamber. Or a 15 stone Nevill. Or June.
Espescially with her physical problems.
-
Obviously no match for a 12 stone fully dressed male Bamber. Or a 15 stone Nevill. Or June.
Espescially with her physical problems.
Sheila got hold of a rifle and shot them Adam,she had no intention of boxing or wrestling them to death.
-
Sheila got hold of a rifle and shot them Adam,she had no intention of boxing or wrestling them to death.
Impossible for Sheila to load the rifle. She needed two hands to hold a glass.
Nevill, June or both would have instantly negated her.
-
Impossible for Sheila to load the rifle. She needed two hands to hold a glass.
Nevill, June or both would have instantly negated her.
The magazine was already loaded Adam,and once Nevill and June were initially wounded they were lambs to the slaughter to reverse a well used guilter phrase.
-
Thin arms, thin legs, small, tiny torso. Looking about 14.
That is ridiculous
-
The magazine was already loaded Adam,and once Nevill and June were initially wounded they were lambs to the slaughter to reverse a well used guilter phrase.
How did Nevill manage to get downstairs if he was a lamb to the slaughter?
-
The magazine was already loaded Adam,and once Nevill and June were initially wounded they were lambs to the slaughter to reverse a well used guilter phrase.
Nevill or June would have instantly reclaimed the rifle. Not rang Bamber's AM at 3.00am.
Sheila had no co ordination, balance, strength, alertness & sufferred from involuntary movements.
-
Nevill or June would have instantly reclaimed the rifle. Not rang Bamber's AM at 3.00am.
Sheila had no co ordination, balance, strength, alertness & sufferred from involuntary movements.
Disagree
-
The magazine was already loaded Adam,and once Nevill and June were initially wounded they were lambs to the slaughter to reverse a well used guilter phrase.
But we don't know that it was loaded. What we know is that JB said it was loaded. Which is entirely different.
-
I have always said that from a gulity perspective Bamber said it was loaded because he knew Shelia couldnt load the rifle. And he needed to be plausible that it was left out ready for her to use.
However this doesn't mean she didn't no how to load it
-
Bamber's WS said Sheila lost a lot weight due to her illnesses.
He also says Sheila was unable to hold conversations.
-
I have always said that from a gulity perspective Bamber said it was loaded because he knew Shelia couldnt load the rifle. And he needed to be plausible that it was left out ready for her to use.
However this doesn't mean she didn't no how to load it
Apparently the murder weapon was stiff and nigh on impossible to load fully. She would surely have chipped some nail varnish had she engaged in that activity.
-
Bamber's WS said Sheila lost a lot weight due to her illnesses.
He also says Sheila was unable to hold conversations.
Jeremy and Shelia were not close.
He himself admits Shelias problems flummoxed him.
-
How did Nevill manage to get downstairs if he was a lamb to the slaughter?
He was never actually fully upstairs after the killing started Steve.
-
Bamber says Sheila was vacant and confused at CC's party.
CC said Sheila did not speak on the way to WHF.
She had spent 2 months in hospital that year.
Sheila was totally gone. Sadly.
-
Answer to my thread question, CC said Sheila would always have her illness.
-
Nevill or June would have instantly reclaimed the rifle. Not rang Bamber's AM at 3.00am.
Sheila had no co ordination, balance, strength, alertness & sufferred from involuntary movements.
Nevill was taken by surprise and initially bashed over the head and knocked out beside the Aga when Sheila kicked off,and as you know June was shot in bed before she could reclaim the rifle or anything else,once she did get up and grapple with Sheila she was too badly wounded to overpower her,not that June stood much chance anyway against a psychotic Sheila.
Nevill called Bamber at 3.10 once he came to lying against the Aga.
-
Dr Ferguson told CC Sheila was not a threat to herself and the twins.
-
Dr Ferguson told CC Sheila was mot a threat to herself and the twins.
That was his proffessional opinion Adam,sadly his opinion was wrong.Pity they reduced the haloperidol!
-
Dr Ferguson told CC Sheila was mot a threat to herself and the twins.
He offered a professional opinion.
A professional opinion also once said that Edmund Kemper was safe to be released into society after killing his grandparents, he went on to murder seven young girls and women.
-
Answer to my thread question, CC said Sheila would always have her illness.
" all these bloody problems with Bambs, I sometimes wish she was dead"
Fair enough a heat of the moment quote
-
But we don't know that it was loaded. What we know is that JB said it was loaded. Which is entirely different.
Yes,obviously Jane,all depends if you think JB is innocent or not.
Look at it another way,for all we know Nevill could have emptied the magazine and put the rifle away,only to have Sheila retrieve it again later on and re-load the magazine.May account for the extra shells on the work top.
-
I always suspected her illness was not curable.
Her physical and mental problems were so severe at only 27.
-
Mentally Sheila -
Had no focus.
Was confused.
Was vacant.
Non responsive.
Could not hold a conversation.
Docile.
No eye to hand coordination.
No alertness.
Lifeless
On Haloperiodal.
----------
Physically Sheila -
Had no balance.
No muscle coirdination.
Had involuntary movements.
No strength.
-------
Obviously was a mouse to the slaughter.
-
I always suspected her illness was not curable.
Her physical and mental problems were so severe at only 27.
Neither myself or you unless I'm mistaken are qualified to make that judgement.
-
Neither myself or you unless I'm mistaken are qualified to make that judgement.
Agree.
The hospital told CC.
-
Yes,obviously Jane,all depends if you think JB is innocent or not.
Look at it another way,for all we know Nevill could have emptied the magazine and put the rifle away,only to have Sheila retrieve it again later on and re-load the magazine.May account for the extra shells on the work top.
Sometimes people will go to any lengths to want Bamber to be innocent, rather than look at the evidence. That's a complete 'snow job' snow!
-
Sometimes people will go to any lengths to want Bamber to be innocent, rather than look at the evidence. That's a complete 'snow job' snow!
Ha,ha.Thanks Zoso,thats telling me straight!
-
I always suspected her illness was not curable.
Her physical and mental problems were so severe at only 27.
Yes,and Sheila would have also known she was getting worse Adam,not a great outlook to face.
-
Sheila was not able to function in her final years, months and days -
Long stays in hospital.
No job.
Children with CC.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Confused at CC's party.
Vacant at CC's party.
Minimal physical functions.
In debt.
No interaction with PB.
No interaction at supper.
Twins complaining about her.
----------
A mouse to the slaughter. Tragically.
-
Sheila was not able to function in her final years, months and days -
Long stays in hospital.
No job.
Children with CC.
June doing Sheila's shopping.
Confused at CC's party.
Vacant at CC's party.
Minimal physical functions.
In debt.
No interaction with PB.
No interaction at supper.
Twins complaining about her.
----------
A mouse to the slaughter. Tragically.
Saying the same thing countless times over Adam....
-
Bamber has to say he's innocent. Which indirectly insinuates Sheila. While looking for a technicality. That is fair enough.
Supporters know Sheila was light years away from being responsible & Bamber is guilty. But support Bamber's efforts for success on a technicality.
-
Bamber has to say he's innocent. Which indirectly insinuates Sheila. While looking for a technicality. That is fair enough.
Supporters know Sheila was light years away from being responsible & Bamber is guilty. But support Bamber's efforts for success on a technicality.
Bamber claims he didn't do the crime from day one.
He denies it.
He doesn't have to do anything.
-
Bamber claims he didn't do the crime from day one.
He denies it.
He doesn't have to do anything.
Agree Bamber can't say I'm guilty but looking for a technicality.
Supporters have to say Bamber is guilty but I support his efforts to find a technicality.
Sheila had no basic functions in the final years, months and days.
-
Agree Bamber can't say I'm guilty but looking for a technicality.
Supporters have to say Bamber is guilty but I support his efforts to find a technicality.
Sheila had no basic functions in the final years, months and days.
Why waste your time on here then if you are adamant he is gulity?
Why not take a megaphone and go outside HMP Wakefield and shout " you are where you belong Jeremy "
As it stands Bamber, is a five times convicted killer on a whole life tariff. The only way he is leaving prison is a pine box.
Which is what you want. So isn't your work here done in that sense?
-
Why waste your time on here then if you are adamant he is gulity?
Why not take a megaphone and go outside HMP Wakefield and shout " you are where you belong Jeremy "
As it stands Bamber, is a five times convicted killer on a whole life tariff. The only way he is leaving prison is a pine box.
Which is what you want. So isn't your work here done in that sense?
Because a megaphone doesn’t pay £10 per post!
-
Because a megaphone doesn’t pay £10 per post!
If he is a paid troll though he is literally expanding to (unless he does it elsewhere) to a forum of literally maybe seven or eight regulars.
Do such things exist? I can only imagine that if it is indeed true it has to originate from a source who is directly related to Jeremy Bamber.
I can't see an ordinary member of the public paying money to slate and troll against Jeremy if they are not directly related.
There has got to be an emotional and personal involvement
-
If he is a paid troll though he is literally expanding to (unless he does it elsewhere) to a forum of literally maybe seven or eight regulars.
Do such things exist? I can only imagine that if it is indeed true it has to originate from a source who is directly related to Jeremy Bamber.
I can't see an ordinary member of the public paying money to slate and troll against Jeremy if they are not directly related.
There has got to be an emotional and personal involvement
Your the troll. Making excuses for all the incriminating forensic and circumstantial evidence. Just because you are a nasty criminal yourself.
Then calling posters names when frustrated.
I just discuss the case. As other guilters do. It is what a forum is for.
-
Sheila's terrible physical and mental condition confirms she put up no resistance to Bamber.
He knew this would be the case.
-
Your the troll. Making excuses for all the incriminating forensic and circumstantial evidence. Just because you are a nasty criminal yourself.
Then calling posters names when frustrated.
I just discuss the case. As other guilters do. It is what a forum is for.
As Kestrel says, £10 a post, I can see where the bedsit payment comes from
-
Sheila could walk. But only just.
She had no balance, strength or cordination.
-
Sheila could walk. But only just.
She had no balance, strength or cordination.
But could help prepare food,
Which I believe your hands come in great help when doing so
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But could help prepare food,
Which I believe your hands come in great help when doing so
Sheila had involuntary movements of her arms.
She needed two hands to hold a glass and could not open a tin of beans.
Stop saying Sheila could commit the massacre.
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But could help prepare food,
Which I believe your hands come in great help when doing so
I wonder what that means exactly; it's rather vague.
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Sheila had involuntary movements of her arms.
She needed two hands to hold a glass and could not open a tin of beans.
Stop saying Sheila could commit the massacre.
Why would Colin ask his ex wife to help prepare food at a housewarming party given her condition?
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Why would Colin ask his ex wife to help prepare food at a housewarming party given her condition?
Stop comparing June and CC supporting Sheila in the days before the massacre to Sheila committing the massacre.
It is no secret June did Sheila's shopping and cooking & CC had the twins 95% of the time.
Sheila had minimal physical and mental functions for years.
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Stop comparing June and CC supporting Sheila in the days before the massacre to Sheila committing the massacre.
It is no secret June did Sheila's shopping and cooking & CC had the twins 95% of the time.
Sheila had minimal physical and mental functions for years.
Yet was a model, embarked on a modelling assignment to Japan, (solo travel) had a social life, went on a few dates with men, was a regular on the London club scene,
Stop making Shelia out to be zombie from people whose recollections are detrimental to Bamber due to personal dislike and monetary reasons, and furthermore are tainted by the wisdom of the event
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Yet was a model, embarked on a modelling assignment to Japan, (solo travel) had a social life, went on a few dates with men, was a regular on the London club scene,
Stop making Shelia out to be zombie from people whose recollections are detrimental to Bamber due to personal dislike and monetary reasons, and furthermore are tainted by the wisdom of the event
She was a model years earlier.
Her final few years she could not function without massive financial and medical support from hospitals, Nevill, June & CC.
The twins were not with her.
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There is no evidence on Sheila that she committed the massacre.
Nevill, June or both would have instantly disarmed her.
Everyone was ambushed while in bed. Sheila put up no resistance as she was not capable of doing so.
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There is no evidence on Sheila that she committed the massacre.
Nevill, June or both would have instantly disarmed her.
Everyone was ambushed while in bed. Sheila put up no resistance as she was not capable of doing so.
Shelia had mental health problems
Shelia was at WHF
Shelia had disturbed thoughts
Shelia had displayed these disturbed thoughts. Helen grimster WS is interesting
Bamber was three miles away knocking out Zs with a busy day the following morning
Bambers girlfriend initially supported him.
Bambers girlfriend was jilted
Bambers girlfriend went to the police
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Snow and Roch focus on technicalities - the aga and injuries. BuboBubo invents scenarios with no evidence.
That is fine. But saying Sheila committed the massacre is totally wrong.
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There is no evidence on Sheila that she committed the massacre.
Nevill, June or both would have instantly disarmed her.
Everyone was ambushed while in bed. Sheila put up no resistance as she was not capable of doing so.
Thanks Adam so no skill or strength needed. You really are a supporter!
Most killings by people with schizophrenia are of family members, approximately half of which have not been treated for the illness. If we look at killings of strangers approx two thirds of these are have not been treated.
So not sure how you can say Sheila was not capable of carrying out the shootings?
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Sheila had massive long term financial, emotional, mental, physical problems. CC, Nevill, June & hospitals had to give her massive continuous long term support.
ILB can support one or more of Bamber's technicality claims. But cannot say Sheila committed the massacre.
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Sheila had massive long term financial, emotional, mental, physical problems. CC, Nevill, June & hospitals had to give her massive continuous long term support.
That does not prevent murder
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That does not prevent murder
It does as she was not physically or mentally capable of opening a tin of beans.
Get real.
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Thanks Adam so no skill or strength needed. You really are a supporter!
Most killings by people with schizophrenia are of family members, approximately half of which have not been treated for the illness. If we look at killings of strangers approx two thirds of these are have not been treated.
So not sure how you can say Sheila was not capable of carrying out the shootings?
Sheila was a zombie.
June was doing her shopping and cooking for goodness sake.
No job, no children, no focus, no strength.
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It does as she was not physically or mentally capable of opening a tin of beans.
Get real.
She was helping her ex husband prepare food for a house party literally the weekend before the tragic event!!!!
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No job, no children, no focus, no strength.
The first three do not prevent murder.
The last one is your opinion. When accounts differ
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She was helping her ex husband prepare food for a house party literally the weekend before the tragic event!!!!
Stop defending the impossible.
Even fully focused Nevill or June or both would instantly disarm her.
It was a rifle for shooting rabbits.
As it happened Sheila was totally gone. She had been for years.
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Stop defending the impossible.
Even fully focused Nevill or June or both would instantly disarm her.
It was a rifle for shooting rabbits.
As it happened Sheila was totally gone. She had been for years.
You accept she was mobile now at least
Thank you
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ILB can support one or more of the technicalities Bamber has or had.
But firefighting everything is totally wrong.
Suggesting Sheila committed the massacre is particulary distasteful.
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As it happened Sheila was totally gone. She had been for years.
Pretty bold and intimate Claims for a man who professes to have been born nearly a decade after the event.
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ILB can support one or more of the technicalities Bamber has or had.
But firefighting everything is totally wrong.
Suggesting Sheila committed the massacre is particulary distasteful.
No I don't think it is to be honest, Jeremy Bamber potentially has lost 38 years of his life due to a MOJ
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You accept she was mobile now at least
Thank you
Always said she could walk. But nothing else without help.
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Always said she could walk. But nothing else without help.
I disagree.
It's a forum
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No I don't think it is to be honest, Jeremy Bamber potentially has lost 38 years of his life due to a MOJ
You are entitled to say Bamber is guilty but there was an MOJ. Then pursue that.
But saying Sheila could overpower Nevill and June is a certain 'no no'.
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You are entitled to say Bamber is guilty but there was an MOJ. Then pursue that.
£10 a troll post is a good rate tbf
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Always said she could walk. But nothing else without help.
You seem to be resorting to desperate measures Adam, no direct evidence, little circumstantial evidence and so you have to resort to this rubbish.
If Sheila was this bad CC would not have allowed her near the boys.
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You are entitled to say Bamber is guilty but there was an MOJ. Then pursue that.
Read that back to yourself slowly
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You seem to be resorting to desperate measures Adam, no direct evidence, little circumstantial evidence and so you have to resort to this rubbish.
If Sheila was this bad CC would not have allowed her near the boys.
He didn't. CC had them 95% of the time.
The trip to WHF June & Nevill controlled Sheila.
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He didn't. CC had them 95% of the time.
The trip to WHF June & Nevill controlled Sheila.
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No balance - RB.
No muscle co ordination - RB.
No strength - RB.
No hand to eye co ordination -AE/RB.
Very docile PB, Bamber, AE.
Unable to get off sofas without help - CAL.
Twins with CC 95% of the time - CC
Recovering anorexic - Leo McKinsey.
June doing Sheila's shopping - RB.
Involuntary movements ' RB/Freddie.
Unable to do a job - Fact.
Long stays inside hospitals - Fact.
On Haloperidal - COA.
Unable to open a tin of beans - AE.
Looking very small in the crime scene photos - Crime scene photos.
No experience with rifle - Family.
Holding a rifle used for shooting rabbits - Fact.
Lifeless a few hours beforehand - Bamber, PB.
Unable to hold a glass one handed - RB/Freddie.
Up against a fully fit male - twice as strong - Fact.
Up against a fully fit stronger female - Fact.
Very docile - CC, Bamber, PB, June.
Non responsive to aledged fostering conversation - Bamber.
Was non responsive in phone conversation prior to bed - PB.
Nevill not having the severe physical and mental problems Sheila had - Fact.
June not having the severe physical or mental problems Sheila had - Fact.
Sheila having no footweare advantages over Nevill and June - Fact.
Twins complaining Sheila was non responsive to them - CC
What the heck more can be supplied?
If ILB wants to support a murderer, that is up to him. But it must be on a specific issue/s to support a MOJ.
Sheila was a mouse to the slaughter.
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What the heck more can be supplied?
If ILB wants to support a murderer, that is up to him. But it must be on a specific issue/s to support a MOJ.
Sheila was a mouse to the slaughter.
Perhaps if you say the same thing just one more time it might make an impact of your opinions
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ILB is disputing for no reason.
A fully fit or 15% Sheila = same result - instantly disarmed by a fully fit Nevill or June. Or both.
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ILB is disputing for no reason.
A fully fit or 15% Sheila = same result - instantly disarmed by a fully fit Nevill or June. Or both.
Why are you bringing June into the equation Adam? She was of a similar build to Sheila and had been shot multiple times before she got close to Sheila.
You must so some research into how violent a episode can be, who called Nevil for help when Sheila flew into a rage? Why did he not pick up a 15% Sheila put her on the sofa and make her a cuppa?
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But could help prepare food,
Which I believe your hands come in great help when doing so
".....could help prepare food"? One such "helped" prepare food for my party. She managed to hack a few tomatoes -they were supposed to be sliced- before, by mutual consent, leaving it to those who could!
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Yet was a model, embarked on a modelling assignment to Japan, (solo travel) had a social life, went on a few dates with men, was a regular on the London club scene,
Stop making Shelia out to be zombie from people whose recollections are detrimental to Bamber due to personal dislike and monetary reasons, and furthermore are tainted by the wisdom of the event
I think that should read "Had once tried her hand at modelling". Her parents paid for her to do a course in which a photo shoot/assignment was included. Had she had what it takes to be as model, more work would have followed. It appears such was not the case. In fact, if we look more deeply into Sheila's accomplishments, there were very few, if any, save for the major one when she produced the twins, albeit, not without an enormous amount of input from the medical profession.
You and Adam have polarized views of who and what Sheila was. Neither of you are entirely wrong, but nor are either of you entirely right.
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".....could help prepare food"? One such "helped" prepare food for my party. She managed to hack a few tomatoes -they were supposed to be sliced- before, by mutual consent, leaving it to those who could!
Adam is more or less saying Shelia was an immobile vegetable
Which is not true
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Adam is more or less saying Shelia was an immobile vegetable
Which is not true
On that point, I entirely agree. However, I don't believe her to be as competent as you'd have us believe. As is often the case, the truth/reality lays somewhere around either side of the middle.
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Adam is more or less saying Shelia was an immobile vegetable
Which is not true
Please do not lie.
I said yesterday she could walk. However had no balance, strength or coordination.
She also had involuntary movements.
Mentally she was virtually a vegatable.
June was 61 and doing Sheila's foid shopping and cooking for goodness sake.
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On that point, I entirely agree. However, I don't believe her to be as competent as you'd have us believe. As is often the case, the truth/reality lays somewhere around either side of the middle.
It boils down to whether she could handle the rifle of not.
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It boils down to whether she could handle the rifle of not.
You need an angle to support a technicality. Everyone else has.
Just defending everything is no good as there are hundreds of things.
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Please do not lie.
I said yesterday she could walk. However had no balance, strength or coordination.
She also had involuntary movements.
Mentally she was virtually a vegatable.
June was 61 and doing Sheila's foid shopping and cooking for goodness sake.
Colin states she was helping him prepare food the weekend before the massacre. Which does take a modicum of coordination.
If she could walk she needed balance.
And a reasonable strength or she would have been at the very least housebound.
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You need an angle to support a technicality. Everyone else has.
Just defending everything is no good as there are hundreds of things.
I've asked you five days to give a definition of a technicality. Appreciate as a troll you can only answer questions that suit your own agenda
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Supporters have angles -
Bill - Cuts.
David - Forensic evidence breakthrough.
Snow - Aga burns.
Rob - Bamber made mistakes.
JackieD - Julie identified the twins.
Lookout - Jeremy sent her a Christmas card.
BuboBubo - Invented scenarios.
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I have a suggestion for ILB.
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Just defending everything is no good as there are hundreds of things.
Then me and Bamber must just be in a club of two then in this regard.
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Supporters have angles -
Bill - Cuts.
David - Forensic evidence breakthrough.
Snow - Aga burns.
Rob - Bamber made mistakes.
JackieD - Julie identified the twins.
Lookout - Jeremy sent her a Christmas card.
BuboBubo - Invented scenarios.
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I have a suggestion for ILB.
You would bore the Samaritans
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ILB should visit the Sea Wall. At night. No good saying he has not got time. He spends enough time on here.
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His angle should be that Bamber could not have cycled it. Undermining the prosecution case.
Whether that would be enough to get a release on a technicality is another question.
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He has always said it can't be cycled at night. Although no one else has ever said this. RB & GG both lied according to ILB.
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Obviously photos need to be taken and posted on here. Not a problem as ILB posts enough photos on here.
The forum will have to trust him with his visit, report and photos.
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I just discuss all aspects of the case from the information available and research.
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I just discuss all aspects of the case from the information available and research.
You need to have a more focused aporoach. An angle which could get a release on a technicality.
Just saying everything that incriminates Bamber is wrong & everyone lied won't work as there are hundreds of pieces.
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Seems that on a date in July 1985, a day after getting an haloperidol injection, Shelia was out on a date with another man. And also enquiring about finding some work.
But I appreciate Adam saying she was a complete vegetable
Also began a new job as a babysitter!
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You need to have a more focused aporoach. An angle which could get a release on a technicality.
Just saying everything that incriminates Bamber is wrong & everyone lied won't work as there are hundreds of pieces.
What's a technicality your definition ?
Forth request
Compelling new evidence quashes convictions
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It boils down to whether she could handle the rifle of not.
Please do not try to over simplify things.
She would have to overpower a man 5 times stronger than her and a woman who did her shopping and cooking!
And she couldn't handle the rifle and there is no evidence she did.
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Shelia began work as a babysitter in 1985.
I wouldn't let somebody who was immobile, no coordination, strength, wherewithal look after my children !
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Please do not try to over simplify things.
She would have to overpower a man 5 times stronger than her and a woman who did her shopping and cooking!
And she couldn't handle the rifle and there is no evidence she did.
I like how you've turned June from a bewildered housewife to Ivan Drago.
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What's a technicality your definition ?
Forth request
Compelling new evidence quashes convictions
Each of Bamber's 8 point CCRC is a technicality.
Ditto his 16 point COA submission.
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Please do not try to over simplify things.
One of the cornerstones of the case is Shelia been unable to operate and load and reload the rifle
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I like how you've turned June from a bewildered housewife to Ivan Drago.
June looked after Sheila. Sheila could not do a job, look after the twins and needed long stays in hospital and powerful injections.
She was a mouse to the slaughter.
Move on.
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Goodness knows how many technicality efforts he will make if he got a COA referral.
In the hope one works.
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June looked after Sheila. Sheila could not do a job, look after the twins and needed long stays in hospital and powerful injections.
She was a mouse to the slaughter.
Move on.
Stop making falsehoods!
Shelia was looking for work and gained it in July 1985 for goodness sake!
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Goodness knows how many technicality efforts he will make if he got a COA referral.
In the hope one works.
They are not technicalitys, they are potential grounds of appeal
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Seems like Shelia was originally going to plan to go away in the first week of August with her pals along with Daniel and Nicholas to France for a holiday.
Was June supposed to go as well Adam?
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Stop making falsehoods!
Shelia was looking for work and gained it in July 1985 for goodness sake!
Oh, c'mon, ILB! She was -momentarily!- employed as a cleaner. It was very short lived. We're talking about a privately educated female who ought to have been capable of more than menial jobs. She wasn't even capable of holding on to those.
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Stop making falsehoods!
Shelia was looking for work and gained it in July 1985 for goodness sake!
Work in July 85?
So that's why she spent a week in early August being looked after by CC, June and Nevill.
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They are not technicalitys, they are potential grounds of appeal
It was a COA in 2002.
None proved innocence. But criminals do get released on technicalities.
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Seems like Shelia was originally going to plan to go away in the first week of August with her pals along with Daniel and Nicholas to France for a holiday.
Was June supposed to go as well Adam?
I guess she was allowed to dream. Whether, or not, those dreams would have come to fruition, we'll never know.
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Seems like Shelia was originally going to plan to go away in the first week of August with her pals along with Daniel and Nicholas to France for a holiday.
Was June supposed to go as well Adam?
Tompkinson. Is that the person who said Sheila needed help getting off the sofa.
Holiday paid by June & Nevill I assume.
Bamber with his 14 hour days.
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Tompkinson. Is that the person who said Sheila needed help getting off the sofa.
Holiday paid by June & Nevill I assume.
Bamber with his 14 hour days.
I totally get the " lazy Shelia money for nothing " and the Bamber " grafting his bollocks off for little reward argument. And from a gulity Bamber scenario its valid in a sense.
But we are discussing the mobility of Shelia
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Seems like Shelia was originally going to plan to go away in the first week of August with her pals along with Daniel and Nicholas to France for a holiday.
Was June supposed to go as well Adam?
We're told Sheila -somewhat reluctantly- agreed to take the boys to WHF only because Colin was taking them to Norway to see his sister and the Bambers had requested the visit prior to them going. Sheila's -well documented- silence on the journey hardly suggests her being wild with excitement about the visit.
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I totally get the " lazy Shelia money for nothing " and the Bamber " grafting his bollocks off for little reward argument. And from a gulity Bamber scenario its valid in a sense.
But we are discussing the mobility of Shelia
Would that be having or lacking physical mobility, or mental energy?
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I totally get the " lazy Shelia money for nothing " and the Bamber " grafting his bollocks off for little reward argument. And from a gulity Bamber scenario its valid in a sense.
But we are discussing the mobility of Shelia
It is not lazy Sheila. She had severe physical and mental problems. With long stays in hospital.
Nevill and June would not support a 'lazy Sheila' so massively if she could look after herself.
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Would that be having or lacking physical mobility, or mental energy?
Recollections of Shelia from friends, family and acquaintances differ on varying scales from March 1985 up to the date of the massacre. One one hand she is lethargic, vacant, distant, on other occasions she is actively seeking work and planning holidays and having dates with other men and enjoying a social life.
I'm guessing this is all part and parcel of Shelias medical condition. Good days and bad days. A cornerstone of the guilt argument is not just about her being unable to overpower nevill and being unable to operate the rifle. It is also down to her not having the physical capacity to even attempt such a feat. Adam often had made reference to this as of recent saying Shelia couldn't do it because she was a " mouse to the slaughter" and June cooked food for her.
My personal opinion is that I think she had the energy to do so. Whether she did or not is an entirely different matter of course
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It is not lazy Sheila. She had severe physical and mental problems. With long stays in hospital.
I am looking at it from Bambers perspective and gulity Bamber scenario
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Nevill and June would not support a 'lazy Sheila' so massively if she could look after herself.
Nevill and June had adopted Shelia from a babe in arms. They were known to be loving people and would support her. Parenthood in many cases is for life!
Jeremy was also being supported by been given a job, a house a car and income. With a long term view to take over a business eventually
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Nevill and June had adopted Shelia from a babe in arms. They were known to be loving people and would support her. Parenthood in many cases is for life!
Jeremy was also being supported by been given a job, a house a car and income. With a long term view to take over a business eventually
A job. You can say that again.
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Recollections of Shelia from friends, family and acquaintances differ on varying scales from March 1985 up to the date of the massacre. One one hand she is lethargic, vacant, distant, on other occasions she is actively seeking work and planning holidays and having dates with other men and enjoying a social life.
I'm guessing this is all part and parcel of Shelias medical condition. Good days and bad days. A cornerstone of the guilt argument is not just about her being unable to overpower nevill and being unable to operate the rifle. It is also down to her not having the physical capacity to even attempt such a feat. Adam often had made reference to this as of recent saying Shelia couldn't do it because she was a " mouse to the slaughter" and June cooked food for her.
My personal opinion is that I think she had the energy to do so. Whether she did or not is an entirely different matter of course
It's a shame we don't have Christine's view. I'm guessing, as Colin says of her not looking as happy since the boys were born, adjectives such as radiant, animated and vivacious would have been used. From then on, I think it was something of a mental roller coaster on an increasingly downward trajectory. By the time she reached WHF, I think she'd all but run out of mental energy.
Simply claiming "June cooked for her" is rather over-egging this particular pudding. Unless June went to London on a daily basis, such would have been impossible.
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It's a shame we don't have Christine's view. I'm guessing, as Colin says of her not looking as happy since the boys were born, adjectives such as radiant, animated and vivacious would have been used. From then on, I think it was something of a mental roller coaster on an increasingly downward trajectory. By the time she reached WHF, I think she'd all but run out of mental energy.
Simply claiming "June cooked for her" is rather over-egging this particular pudding. Unless June went to London on a daily basis, such would have been impossible.
Weekly visits. Suspect June cooked in bulk to cover Sheila for the week.
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Weekly visits. Suspect June cooked in bulk to cover Sheila for the week.
Maybe June imposed herself.
With Nevill working all day, Jean boutell taking care of the cleaning duties, and apart from church it was something for June to do.
Maybe June needed Shelia as much as Shelia needed June
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Maybe June imposed herself.
With Nevill working all day, Jean boutell taking care of the cleaning duties, and apart from church it was something for June to do.
Maybe June needed Shelia as much as Shelia needed June
Weekly visits. Suspect June cooked in bulk to cover Sheila for the week.
I think we may have found a point on which you both agree!! ;D
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Suspect the Haloperiodal literally did make Sheila bedbound. It is an extremely powerful drug.
Getting it halved meant she could walk. But still had no focus, alertness got cofused, was docile, non responsive, had balance/coordination problems, involuntary movements, no strength or energy.
She put up no resistance to Bamber.
But Nevill did!
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Suspect the Haloperiodal literally did make Sheila bedbound. It is an extremely powerful drug.
Getting it halved meant she could walk. But still had no focus, alertness got cofused, was docile, non responsive, had balance/coordination problems, involuntary movements, no strength or energy.
She put up no resistance to Bamber.
But Nevill did!
But there are sources that post march 1985 hospital that she did have energy and the wherewithal
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Oh, c'mon, ILB! She was -momentarily!- employed as a cleaner. It was very short lived. We're talking about a privately educated female who ought to have been capable of more than menial jobs. She wasn't even capable of holding on to those.
People are claiming that Shelia couldn't hardly function, had no coordination, couldn't do tasks for herself and relied on others!
The fact is she was applying for a job. It takes a degree of functioning! Independence, and nous to do. It means at the very least she was physically capable
Which contradicts her inability to function!
I'm not talking about her prostidguous background Jane cmon!
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Work in July 85?
So that's why she spent a week in early August being looked after by CC, June and Nevill.
Seems Shelia did quite a lot throughout that month period in terms of mobility and cognivity
Went out to nightclubs
Went out for meals
Had dates with men.
Part time job as a lingerie store cleaner
Part time job as a babysitter
Was planning a trip abroad with friends and the children
Friends do differ between her being " vibrant and out of it "
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But there are sources that post march 1985 hospital that she did have energy and the wherewithal
Sheila was totally gone. Months before her 6 week stay in hospital earlier in the year.
CC, PB, RB, her best friend, Bamber all say so.
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Nevill, June or both would have instantly disarmed Sheila. They were her mother & father and massively stronger.
The main difference is a fully fit Sheila may have made it to the kitchen in the first place. Sheila on the 7th August 1985 wouldn't.
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ILB needs to find an angle to support a technicality.
Opposing all the rock solid evidence and WS's won't work.
I have suggested he visits the Sea Wall.
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Nevill, June or both would have instantly disarmed Sheila. They were her mother & father and massively stronger.
The main difference is a fully fit Sheila may have made it to the kitchen in the first place. Sheila on the 7th August 1985 wouldn't.
Please refer to my second Shelia scenario
Thank you
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Please refer to my second Shelia scenario
Thank you
Nevill and June would not wait until Sheila starts shooting the twins. Then start ringing Bamber's AM.
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Nevill and June would not wait until Sheila starts shooting the twins. Then start ringing Bamber's AM.
My second scenario is rock solid
You just have to accept it
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Recollections of Shelia from friends, family and acquaintances differ on varying scales from March 1985 up to the date of the massacre. One one hand she is lethargic, vacant, distant, on other occasions she is actively seeking work and planning holidays and having dates with other men and enjoying a social life.
I'm guessing this is all part and parcel of Shelias medical condition. Good days and bad days. A cornerstone of the guilt argument is not just about her being unable to overpower nevill and being unable to operate the rifle. It is also down to her not having the physical capacity to even attempt such a feat. Adam often had made reference to this as of recent saying Shelia couldn't do it because she was a " mouse to the slaughter" and June cooked food for her.
My personal opinion is that I think she had the energy to do so. Whether she did or not is an entirely different matter of course
You just said it yourself, good days and bad days and from the recollections of people around at the time of the murders, she was having bad days. Even Bamber himself alludes to her being quiet and withdrawn. The days around the murders are the only days that matter. Also, even in the VERY UNLIKELY event that Sheila worked out how to use the rifle, I very much doubt she would kill her kids execution style and choose to die herself in her parents bedroom.
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You just said it yourself, good days and bad days and from the recollections of people around at the time of the murders, she was having bad days. Even Bamber himself alludes to her being quiet and withdrawn. The days around the murders are the only days that matter. Also, even in the VERY UNLIKELY event that Sheila worked out how to use the rifle, I very much doubt she would kill her kids execution style and choose to die herself in her parents bedroom.
The rifle is not difficult to work out.
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That doesn't make Bamber innocent, but I think it's wrong to assume that Shelia wouldn't know how to operate the rifle.
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You just said it yourself, good days and bad days and from the recollections of people around at the time of the murders, she was having bad days. Even Bamber himself alludes to her being quiet and withdrawn. The days around the murders are the only days that matter. Also, even in the VERY UNLIKELY event that Sheila worked out how to use the rifle, I very much doubt she would kill her kids execution style and choose to die herself in her parents bedroom.
Sheila was in a terrible long term physical and mental condition. You don't go to hospital for that long for no reason.
It does seem her final few days were very bad and she would be extremely easy to control.
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It does seem her final few days were very bad and she would be extremely easy to control.
Her blood seems to have been extremely easy to control. According to some members, Jeremy was pivoting her arm and wrist, this way and that way, as he sought to pose her.
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The rifle is not difficult to work out.
Boyce demonstrated circa 2012, how lightweight and easy to use the rifle was.
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Sheila was in a terrible long term physical and mental condition. You don't go to hospital for that long for no reason.
It does seem her final few days were very bad and she would be extremely easy to control.
Why was Shelia seeking employment then and looking to embark on holidays abroad and meeting gentlemen for dates?
That is not the behaviour of an individual who is said to be in the state you are alluding to
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Boyce demonstrated circa 2012, how lightweight and easy to use the rifle was.
For someone like Boyce, who was used to weapons, it would be.
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The rifle is not difficult to work out.
Of course not, when you have time and without the stress of being in a psychotic rage.
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Her blood seems to have been extremely easy to control. According to some members, Jeremy was pivoting her arm and wrist, this way and that way, as he sought to pose her.
This way and that? LOL
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Of course not, when you have time and without the stress of being in a psychotic rage.
The rifle is not difficult to work out
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For someone like Boyce, who was used to weapons, it would be.
Aunt Agatha, a forum user on here was familiar with it!
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Aunt Agatha, a forum user on here was familiar with it!
Not with the murder weapon.
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Not with the murder weapon.
With the same model, her own words
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With the same model, her own words
Not sure how she would be, she said she had a pellet gun that belonged to him, but I have never seen her claim anything about the murder weapon. I'm not disputing that she did - just seems odd that she's never mentioned it when we have talked before.
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The rifle is not difficult to work out
Sheila had no experience with weapons. In her condition she would not be able to use it.
There is no evidence on her she did.
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Nevill, June or both would have instantly taken the rifle off Sheila.
It was a rifle for shooting rabbits.
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Why was Shelia seeking employment then and looking to embark on holidays abroad and meeting gentlemen for dates?
That is not the behaviour of an individual who is said to be in the state you are alluding to
Sheila was extremely weak, docile, confused, half awake, unfocused, unbalanced, unaware and uncordinated when Bamber woke her.
She had been in the previous days.
Bamber had just inflicted 40+ injuries to Nevill in his kitchen attack. He was hyped and ready for any resistance from Sheila. But as expected she put up none.
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Nevill, June or both would have instantly taken the rifle off Sheila.
There was a terrifying struggle for something that night. If not the rifle, then I am still open to my other suggestion, which is that there may have been more than one incident during the course of events.
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A precursor incident also leaves open the possibility that all was certainly not well in the household, as each retired for the night. An initial, lesser incident leaves open the chance of bad feeling smoldering, leading to the lethal incident.
You can almost hear Nevill or June saying 'we'll discuss this in the morning'. Sheila discussed it in her head instead.
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Sheila had no experience with weapons. In her condition she would not be able to use it.
There is no evidence on her she did.
The rifle is not difficult to work out
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Nevill, June or both would have instantly taken the rifle off Sheila.
It was a rifle for shooting rabbits.
In your opinion.
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Sheila was extremely weak, docile, confused, half awake, unfocused, unbalanced, unaware and uncordinated when Bamber woke her.
She had been in the previous days.
Bamber had just inflicted 40+ injuries to Nevill in his kitchen attack. He was hyped and ready for any resistance from Sheila. But as expected she put up none.
In your opinion.
There are accounts of shelia being active as well in the weeks, months proceeding the massacre
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A precursor incident also leaves open the possibility that all was certainly not well in the household, as each retired for the night. An initial, lesser incident leaves open the chance of bad feeling smoldering, leading to the lethal incident.
You can almost hear Nevill or June saying 'we'll discuss this in the morning'. Sheila discussed it in her head instead.
Or saying the same to Bamber as he left.
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Or saying the same to Bamber as he left.
By precursor, I mean something bordering on physical, or actually physical. However it may been verbal only, and you're right, we only have Jeremy's word for what is supposed to have happened.
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By precursor, I mean something bordering on physical, or actually physical. However it may been verbal only, and you're right, we only have Jeremy's word for what is supposed to have happened.
How many times have I said exactly that? I really find it kinda 'spicious when events occur with only JB's words of explanation.
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People are claiming that Shelia couldn't hardly function, had no coordination, couldn't do tasks for herself and relied on others!
The fact is she was applying for a job. It takes a degree of functioning! Independence, and nous to do. It means at the very least she was physically capable
Which contradicts her inability to function!
I'm not talking about her prostidguous background Jane cmon!
I sense a lot of Sheila's actions were keeping up appearances in front of her parents. She wasn't career-focussed in the same way Julie was. An employer whom she cleaned for in Hampstead commented that she had to be directed in her work. I think Sheila was on a downward trajectory to mental illness from the modelling assignment in Japan days, when she had felt ill at ease and had asked Colin to book an appointment with a psychiatrist upon her return.
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I sense a lot of Sheila's actions were keeping up appearances in front of her parents. She wasn't career-focussed in the same way Julie was. An employer whom she cleaned for in Hampstead commented that she had to be directed in her work. I think Sheila was on a downward trajectory to mental illness from the modelling assignment in Japan days, when she had felt ill at ease and had asked Colin to book an appointment with a psychiatrist upon her return.
It makes me wonder if she was already undergoing psych care. It's simply not possible to take a decision to see a consultant without going through a GP first.
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Why was Shelia seeking employment then and looking to embark on holidays abroad and meeting gentlemen for dates?
That is not the behaviour of an individual who is said to be in the state you are alluding to
I can't help comparing Sheila with Mary Parkinson. I think Sheila, Mary and Jeremy felt the weight of expectation from their respective parents and felt as though they were relative failures in comparison. Both Sheila and Jeremy tried to avoid White House Farm upon adulthood for that reason. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5865017/Tory-grandee-Cecil-Parkinsons-eldest-daughter-hanged-herself.html
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It makes me wonder if she was already undergoing psych care. It's simply not possible to take a decision to see a consultant without going through a GP first.
I've been told the most serious cases are those where the prospective patient doesn't sense anything wrong. It seems there is more hope if the person recognizes themself that they need help.
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I can't help comparing Sheila with Mary Parkinson. I think Sheila, Mary and Jeremy felt the weight of expectation from their respective parents and felt as though they were relative failures in comparison. Both Sheila and Jeremy tried to avoid White House Farm upon adulthood for that reason. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5865017/Tory-grandee-Cecil-Parkinsons-eldest-daughter-hanged-herself.html
I think both children were predominantly spoilt and both tied somewhat to their parents apron strings. It was a family of wealthm for maybe both children it was always a case of " if I mess up, dad ( nevill ) will fork out money to pick up the pieces"
The Bambers had provided a good life, and I think from the other side of things June and Nevill wanted two children in their own mould, regimented.
Unfortunately they got a Shelia and they got a Jeremy
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I think both children were predominantly spoilt and both tied somewhat to their parents apron strings. It was a family of wealthm for maybe both children it was always a case of " if I mess up, dad ( nevill ) will fork out money to pick up the pieces"
The Bambers had provided a good life, and I think from the other side of things June and Nevill wanted two children in their own mould, regimented.
Unfortunately they got a Shelia and they got a Jeremy
I think that was true for Jeremy (foreign trips, car replacement) but not of Sheila. I don't see her as materialistic in the slightest. June's worry about the damp flat in Hampstead and her concern for the twins led her to buy the Maida Vale flat, not any prompting from her daughter.
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I think that was true for Jeremy (foreign trips, car replacement) but not of Sheila. I don't see her as materialistic in the slightest. June's worry about the damp flat in Hampstead and her concern for the twins led her to buy the Maida Vale flat, not any prompting from her daughter.
I disagree in reference to Shelia in the early days Steve.
She had ambitions of being a top model.
She wanted the London life, it wouldn't have come cheap. And June and Nevill were paying for this. The Lucy Clayton school which June paid for, who financed the Japan airflight ticket? Who financed the nights out? Shelia was between jobs,Colin was on an art grant, the bank of Nevill and June !
I believe Shelia was monetary based as much as Jeremy was. Perhaps not as much as her problems got worse. But certainly was at a time.
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Think many parents want their offspring to emulate them. Try to get them to enjoy a hobby, try to get them to take up a trade they have done, follow in the footsteps etc et al.
We are all individuals who are on our own journey in life. You can't expect to clone a mini me.
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Bamber was an inheritance killer. He testified himself he liked expensive things.
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With inheritance killings there will be more to it.
In this case he wasn't getting enough from his parents & Sheila was getting too much.
That was never changing.
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Bamber was an inheritance killer. He testified himself he liked expensive things.
Yeah that's it
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I don't agree with ILB that Nevill would never sack Bamber.
This would give Bamber free reign to rob, steal & make no effort at work.
He had to behave and knuckle down. Long term.
Or find another route.
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Nevill either knew or suspected Bamber of burning down the caravan shop & robbing caravans. He was not stupid.
He knew he robbed the caravan site.
It was last chance saloon. Bamber didn't think the eventual rewards were worth the time and effort.
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I don't agree with ILB that Nevill would never sack Bamber.
This would give Bamber free reign to rob, steal & make no effort at work.
He had to behave and knuckle down. Long term.
Or find another route.
Specultive without merit
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I think both children were predominantly spoilt and both tied somewhat to their parents apron strings. It was a family of wealthm for maybe both children it was always a case of " if I mess up, dad ( nevill ) will fork out money to pick up the pieces"
The Bambers had provided a good life, and I think from the other side of things June and Nevill wanted two children in their own mould, regimented.
Unfortunately they got a Shelia and they got a Jeremy
My adoptive parents were told that "If you treat it like one of your own, it will grow to be like you"!!!! -I don't think they were meaning me, in particular, more generalizing- but I believe this to have been the mind set of those organizing adoptions between the end of the war and the early 60's. It was a stricture which often led to great unhappiness and disillusionment for both parents and children.
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My adoptive parents were told that "If you treat it like one of your own, it will grow to be like you"!!!! -I don't think they were meaning me, in particular, more generalizing- but I believe this to have been the mind set of those organizing adoptions between the end of the war and the early 60's. It was a stricture which often led to great unhappiness and disillusionment for both parents and children.
I couldn't help thinking of that when I read about David McCallum's son. https://www.grunge.com/1404977/tragic-1989-death-david-mccalllum-son/