Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Roch on August 01, 2023, 10:56:PM
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Unless I'm mistaken?
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Unless I'm mistaken?
Yvonne answers that question in the Aga burns podcast Roch.
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I did hear that but didn't want to assume it was correct that it wasn't made an exhibit. YH reasons that the police knew it didn't have anyone else's blood on it because they themselves were the people who used the coal scuttle at the scene, therefore it wasn't made an exhibit.
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I did hear that but didn't want to assume it was correct that it wasn't made an exhibit. YH reasons that the police knew it didn't have anyone else's blood on it because they themselves were the people who used the coal scuttle at the scene, therefore it wasn't made an exhibit.
But they did magic the calendar away. And what about the stripped jacket?
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Was it even fingerprinted?
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But they did magic the calendar away. And what about the stripped jacket?
The calendar??
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The calendar??
It was, unlike the coal scuttle a numbered exhibit
Follow this link
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11889.msg546382.html#msg546382
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When Jeremy became a suspect, why didn't police seize the coal scuttle for forensics? Isn't Jeremy supposed to have placed Nevill's head on top of the coal scuttle?
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When Jeremy became a suspect, why didn't police seize the coal scuttle for forensics? Isn't Jeremy supposed to have placed Nevill's head on top of the coal scuttle?
And how would the coal scuttle tell them that?
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And how would the coal scuttle tell them that?
Not sure what you mean. Surely it follows that if JB a suspect, then scuttle is relevant?
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Not sure what you mean. Surely it follows that if JB a suspect, then scuttle is relevant?
It was literally covered in blood, it was probably thrown out in the clean up, when they thought Sheila was the killer.
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It was literally covered in blood, it was probably thrown out in the clean up, when they thought Sheila was the killer.
It was probably covered in raid team fingerprints.
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It was probably covered in raid team fingerprints.
No, it was covered in blood. The Raid team had no reason to move him and the suggestion is beyond the pale.
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No, it was covered in blood. The Raid team had no reason to move him and the suggestion is beyond the pale.
And even the coal scuttle.
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And even the coal scuttle.
Pail,scuttle!
Very good Jane,very good! :))
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No, it was covered in blood. The Raid team had no reason to move him and the suggestion is beyond the pale.
There was no reason for JB to move him, and Sheila couldn't have moved him.
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There was no reason for JB to move him, and Sheila couldn't have moved him.
The motives of a killer are unique to them but you're getting the idea as far as Sheila is concerned.
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There was no reason for JB to move him, and Sheila couldn't have moved him.
But you're convinced of the police finding reason. Mmm?
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The motives of a killer are unique to them but you're getting the idea as far as Sheila is concerned.
I'm pretty sure the the killer's motives were to send her children to the other side, which she did by shooting them in the face while they slept. If Sheila had survived, I expect that her legal team would have successfully argued for some kind of diminished responsibility. With regards to the nitty gritty of her motives, that would have taken getting inside Sheila's head in the run up to the incident and during the incident. Sheila would also need to be able to recall those raging delusions herself, something which she may have refused to do or been unable to do, had she survived.
It serves no purpose for Jeremy to move Nevill. It doesn't implicate Sheila because she couldn't have moved Nevill herself. Therefore, it can form no part of some imagined blame game on Sheila by Jeremy. I don't know whether Nevill was moved or toppled, or his position was some how accidental according to the laws of physics.. but at least I want to know.
But you're convinced of the police finding reason. Mmm?
What makes you think they didn't? It was the police who had to force entry and the police who then managed the scene right up until the bodies were removed.
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I'm pretty sure the the killer's motives were to send her children to the other side, which she did by shooting them in the face while they slept. If Sheila had survived, I expect that her legal team would have successfully argued for some kind of diminished responsibility. With regards to the nitty gritty of her motives, that would have taken getting inside Sheila's head in the run up to the incident and during the incident. Sheila would also need to be able to recall those raging delusions herself, something which she may have refused to do or been unable to do, had she survived.
It serves no purpose for Jeremy to move Nevill. It doesn't implicate Sheila because she couldn't have moved Nevill herself. Therefore, it can form no part of some imagined blame game on Sheila by Jeremy. I don't know whether Nevill was moved or toppled, or his position was some how accidental according to the laws of physics.. but at least I want to know.
What makes you think they didn't? It was the police who had to force entry and the police who then managed the scene right up until the bodies were removed.
Women with paranoid schizophrenia who kill, the victims often include their children, usually they are cleared of murder due to insanity, as in the case of Rainwell who killed three people with a hammer and a spade.
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Women with paranoid schizophrenia who kill, the victims often include their children, usually they are cleared of murder due to insanity, as in the case of Rainwell who killed three people with a hammer and a spade.
He was a man who killed adults I think?
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He was a man who killed adults I think?
Yes he had paranoid schizophrenia as Sheila did, and was cleared of murder even though extreme violence was used.
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Women with paranoid schizophrenia who kill, the victims often include their children, usually they are cleared of murder due to insanity, as in the case of Rainwell who killed three people with a hammer and a spade.
Was he medicated?
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I'm pretty sure the the killer's motives were to send her children to the other side, which she did by shooting them in the face while they slept. If Sheila had survived, I expect that her legal team would have successfully argued for some kind of diminished responsibility. With regards to the nitty gritty of her motives, that would have taken getting inside Sheila's head in the run up to the incident and during the incident. Sheila would also need to be able to recall those raging delusions herself, something which she may have refused to do or been unable to do, had she survived.
It serves no purpose for Jeremy to move Nevill. It doesn't implicate Sheila because she couldn't have moved Nevill herself. Therefore, it can form no part of some imagined blame game on Sheila by Jeremy. I don't know whether Nevill was moved or toppled, or his position was some how accidental according to the laws of physics.. but at least I want to know.
What makes you think they didn't? It was the police who had to force entry and the police who then managed the scene right up until the bodies were removed.
I always thought if Jeremy was gulity he would have positioned nevill as close to the kitchen phone as possible to ' add creedence to his scenario '
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I always thought if Jeremy was gulity he would have positioned nevill as close to the kitchen phone as possible to ' add creedence to his scenario '
Excellent point
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I'm pretty sure the the killer's motives were to send her children to the other side, which she did by shooting them in the face while they slept. If Sheila had survived, I expect that her legal team would have successfully argued for some kind of diminished responsibility. With regards to the nitty gritty of her motives, that would have taken getting inside Sheila's head in the run up to the incident and during the incident. Sheila would also need to be able to recall those raging delusions herself, something which she may have refused to do or been unable to do, had she survived.
It serves no purpose for Jeremy to move Nevill. It doesn't implicate Sheila because she couldn't have moved Nevill herself. Therefore, it can form no part of some imagined blame game on Sheila by Jeremy. I don't know whether Nevill was moved or toppled, or his position was some how accidental according to the laws of physics.. but at least I want to know.
What makes you think they didn't? It was the police who had to force entry and the police who then managed the scene right up until the bodies were removed.
I'm pretty sure he just wanted to degrade his father and placed him in a position that would do just that.
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I'm pretty sure he just wanted to degrade his father and placed him in a position that would do just that.
It could be argued he was angered by his and nevills struggle/fight
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I always thought if Jeremy was gulity he would have positioned nevill as close to the kitchen phone as possible to ' add creedence to his scenario '
He left the kitchen phone off the hook as part of the stage.
How much nearer could he put Nevill?
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Women with paranoid schizophrenia who kill, the victims often include their children, usually they are cleared of murder due to insanity, as in the case of Rainwell who killed three people with a hammer and a spade.
He was NOT taking any medication.
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/alexander-lewis-ranwell-profile-insane-8524236
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It was literally covered in blood, it was probably thrown out in the clean up, when they thought Sheila was the killer.
Simple hosepipe job!
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I always thought if Jeremy was gulity he would have positioned nevill as close to the kitchen phone as possible to ' add creedence to his scenario '
Mike T. told us there was a lot of blood on the kitchen floor in that area. Jeremy couldn't risk leaving footprints in blood.
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Mike T. told us there was a lot of blood on the kitchen floor in that area. Jeremy couldn't risk leaving footprints in blood.
Nevill was a heavy dead weight.
Was probably just a case of using the nearest available items to put him in position - chair & coal scuttle.
Nevill was then in the perfect position to have his back burnt and have more head shots.
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He left the kitchen phone off the hook as part of the stage.
That would not cut Jeremy's line
The phone call would still be live
If nevill for example was to " drop the phone"
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Nevill was a heavy dead weight.
Was probably just a case of using the nearest available items to put him in position - chair & coal scuttle.
Nevill was then in the perfect position to have his back burnt and have more head shots.
He could have shot him four more times in any particular area of the kitchen?
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He could have shot him four more times in any particular area of the kitchen?
So what was wrong with where he did shoot him?
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So what was wrong with where he did shoot him?
From a gulity Bamber scenario
" The phone went dead "
Do you believe Bamber wanted to create the impression nevill then got shot to death adding creedence to the telephone call, or he put the phone down to see to the urgent matter ?
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From a gulity Bamber scenario
" The phone went dead "
Do you believe Bamber wanted to create the impression nevill then got shot to death adding creedence to the telephone call, or he put the phone down to see to the urgent matter ?
It suited Jeremy not to have to embellish a story from a man far smarter than himself. One of the motives for the murder was he felt a total lack of empathy for any of them.
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It suited Jeremy not to have to embellish a story from a man far smarter than himself. One of the motives for the murder was he felt a total lack of empathy for any of them.
But surely someone who is not intelligent as you think Bamber isis going to try and embellish it? Are they not?
Even VanesiZ said it looked like " something off the TV "
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I'm pretty sure he just wanted to degrade his father and placed him in a position that would do just that.
On what basis would he be wanting to degrade his father? He's supposed to be setting up a Sheila scenario. Why would he think that people would be drawn in by the notion of Sheila wanting to degrade her father? You talk about clutching at straws and this premise does exactly that.
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From a gulity Bamber scenario
" The phone went dead "
Do you believe Bamber wanted to create the impression nevill then got shot to death adding creedence to the telephone call, or he put the phone down to see to the urgent matter ?
In a Sheila scenario Nevill died a long time after ringing Bamber. So did not need to be near the kitchen phone.
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The kitchen fight was not planned.
So doubt Bamber instantly thought Nevill had to be near the phone. He wasn't that sharpe.
He just used the nearest things - chair, coal scuttle.
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On what basis would he be wanting to degrade his father? He's supposed to be setting up a Sheila scenario. Why would he think that people would be drawn in by the notion of Sheila wanting to degrade her father? You talk about clutching at straws and this premise does exactly that.
I imagine JB's special grievance with Nevill was about being held back and not being valued in the way he felt he deserved.
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The kitchen fight was not planned.
So doubt Bamber instantly thought Nevill had to be near the phone. He wasn't that sharpe.
He just used the nearest things - chair, coal scuttle.
Do you believe Bamber is completely thick all together?
You make it out that hed be unable to even tie his shoelaces without assistance
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But surely someone who is not intelligent as you think Bamber isis going to try and embellish it? Are they not?
Even VanesiZ said it looked like " something off the TV "
He gave the bare bones of the crime to those gathered at Bourtree Cottage that first morning. He couldn't resist telling Ann Eaton that Sheila was "on the hard stuff" though.
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On what basis would he be wanting to degrade his father? He's supposed to be setting up a Sheila scenario. Why would he think that people would be drawn in by the notion of Sheila wanting to degrade her father? You talk about clutching at straws and this premise does exactly that.
No, because he told Julie he'd had a mental blank during the crime and thus exacted revenge for all the perceived injustices of the past in that one moment.
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Do you believe Bamber is completely thick all together?
You make it out that hed be unable to even tie his shoelaces without assistance
Not that clever.
Certainly would not be thinking I must put Nevill next to the phone after a huge attack.
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He gave the bare bones of the crime to those gathered at Bourtree Cottage that first morning. He couldn't resist telling Ann Eaton that Sheila was "on the hard stuff" though.
She did take cocaine didn't she? So its true isn't it.
Appreciate if gulity he's trying to paint Shelia as a drug addict
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Not that clever.
Certainly would not be thinking I must put Nevill next to the phone after a huge attack.
For a guy with no prior police involvement if indeed gulity he kept it together well.
Forget detectives writing stuff down giving him more time. He held his own in the numerous interviews.
DS Jones believed " he would get a cough from Bamber "
I think a less hardened character would have cracked up quickly
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She did take cocaine didn't she? So its true isn't it.
Appreciate if gulity he's trying to paint Shelia as a drug addict
The comment, if true, sounds rather like he was trying too, doesn't it.
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Not that clever.
Certainly would not be thinking I must put Nevill next to the phone after a huge attack.
But he was clever enough to apparently stage a Bible scene in regards to Shelia ?
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For a guy with no prior police involvement if indeed gulity he kept it together well.
Forget detectives writing stuff down giving him more time. He held his own in the numerous interviews.
DS Jones believed " he would get a cough from Bamber "
I think a less hardened character would have cracked up quickly
I seem to think there was a lot of prevarication, hesitation, and deviation...............along with "No comments" and sucking the wool from his sweater.
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I seem to think there was a lot of prevarication, hesitation, and deviation...............along with "No comments" and sucking the wool from his sweater.
Found his no comment question to " how long did you spend on the tractor in the day time Jeremy strange.
Because his job duty was to be in the tractor
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Found his no comment question to " how long did you spend on the tractor in the day time Jeremy strange.
Totally unnecessary. Perhaps he was sticking his fingers up? He believed all EP to be stupid, we're told.
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But he was clever enough to apparently stage a Bible scene in regards to Shelia ?
Pre planned.
That really didn't look like a stage!
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Mike T. told us there was a lot of blood on the kitchen floor in that area. Jeremy couldn't risk leaving footprints in blood.
JB would have to get close to put Nevil on the chair would he not Steve? So can we rule out JB doing this?
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Totally unnecessary. Perhaps he was sticking his fingers up? He believed all EP to be stupid, we're told.
Possibly
He did answer a lot of questions. To me that particular answer to that question was because he thought he was getting led up the garden path in some way
Because it's quite an innocuous question
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I imagine JB's special grievance with Nevill was about being held back and not being valued in the way he felt he deserved.
Even if that were true, what has that got to do with Sheila?
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Possibly
He did answer a lot of questions. To me that particular answer to that question was because he thought he was getting led up the garden path in some way
Because it's quite an innocuous question
It is. Maybe something diverted him from 'tractoring' and he preferred not to say?
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Found his no comment question to " how long did you spend on the tractor in the day time Jeremy strange.
Because his job duty was to be in the tractor
Wasn't the question: how long did you spend talking to Sheila and the twins?
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JB would have to get close to put Nevil on the chair would he not Steve? So can we rule out JB doing this?
I'm willing to accept police moved a dead Nevill lying against the Aga when they entered, though I don't see how it changes anything materially.
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Possibly
He did answer a lot of questions. To me that particular answer to that question was because he thought he was getting led up the garden path in some way
Because it's quite an innocuous question
Very much so -
Over 30 'No comments' & 'can't remembers'. Over 10 -don't knows' & 'can't say'.
Several one word answers as well as vague answers such as 'not really', 'I think so' & 'less than 40 but more than 10 !'
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On what basis would he be wanting to degrade his father? He's supposed to be setting up a Sheila scenario. Why would he think that people would be drawn in by the notion of Sheila wanting to degrade her father? You talk about clutching at straws and this premise does exactly that.
He was placed in a position so that his backside was exposed to anyone entering the kitchen - you read it how you like. That's how he was 'displayed' - even YOU think he was placed there but EP would have no reason to display him in such away but a son with a grievance might - it's not the first time such things have happened.
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Very much so -
Over 30 'No comments' & 'can't remembers'. Over 10 -don't knows' & 'can't say'.
Several one word answers as well as vague answers such as 'not really', 'I think so' & 'less than 40 but more than 10 !'
How many t shirts do you own was a ridiculous question
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He was placed in a position so that his backside was exposed to anyone entering the kitchen - you read it how you like. That's how he was 'displayed' - even YOU think he was placed there but EP would have no reason to display him in such away but a son with a grievance might - it's not the first time such things have happened.
I expect it was gravity and expedience rather than deliberate. He was either toppled in to that position of lifted for some reason by several coppers. Why would Jeremy want to portray Sheila as having pulled her father's pyjama bottoms down?
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If yoou were shot in the head four times and you then fell to the floor,would your body curl up?
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I expect it was gravity and expedience rather than deliberate. He was either toppled in to that position of lifted for some reason by several coppers. Why would Jeremy want to portray Sheila as having pulled her father's pyjama bottoms down?
He didn't necessarily. He had a mental blank as he told Julie and momentarily lost control.
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He didn't necessarily. He had a mental blank as he told Julie and momentarily lost control.
You said the police moved Nevill Steve.
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You said the police moved Nevill Steve.
I'm saying Jeremy may have lost control of Nevill's state. If the marks on Nevill are from the Aga he may have been moved off that apparatus by police, though there was a suggestion that Jeremy had placed him behind the door deliberately. I don't know whether Nevill's flesh was exposed to the heat of the Aga for sufficient a time for the marks to be made.
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I'm saying Jeremy may have lost control of Nevill's state. If the marks on Nevill are from the Aga he may have been moved off that apparatus by police, though there was a suggestion that Jeremy had placed him behind the door deliberately. I don't know whether Nevill's flesh was exposed to the heat of the Aga for sufficient a time for the marks to be made.
I don't follow.
If gulity Jeremy Bamber was only leaving the farmhouse satisfied everyone was dead.
What ever happened after ( police in WHF) is out of his control.
His primary focus is sticking to his story
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If it was possible for Nevill to fall & stay in the position in the photos, then that is what happened.
Otherwise Bamber lifted him into that position to burn his back and shoot his head.
Sheila was not strong enough to lift him.
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I'm saying Jeremy may have lost control of Nevill's state. If the marks on Nevill are from the Aga he may have been moved off that apparatus by police, though there was a suggestion that Jeremy had placed him behind the door deliberately. I don't know whether Nevill's flesh was exposed to the heat of the Aga for sufficient a time for the marks to be made.
Everyone's scenarios are all over the place at the moment.Not sure who thinks the police moved Nevill and who doesn't.Regarding this,you also have to decide when the final four head shots were inflicted.
What I am getting at is,if Nevill was moved to the scuttle after death and rigor mortis had set in,why is he curled up in a ball?
What I mean is,if JB shot and killed Nevill before he fell abainst the Aga,why did his body curl up?
Isn't that a strange position to fall into once yout stone dead after four head shots? And make no mistake about it,none of the four final head shots could have been inflicted once Nevill hit the floor lying on his right side,no way.
Sheila was shot in the brain and instantly fell down flat,June was shot twice in the head and was found in a similar pose.Why did Nevill curl up so tightly when he fell to the floor after his head shots,is this possible? Can instinct cause you to curl up with your knees touching your chin more or less without any brain function?
Knees tucked in and arms outstretched.Again,how could you stretch your arms out straight with no brain function to do so?
YET,for those of you who think Nevill was moved from the Aga by the police after rigor mortis had set in,this must indeed be the position he was lying in in front of the Aga.
Lucky that Nevill stretched both arms out in front of him after he was dead,this looks natural once he was moved to the scuttle with them hanging down towards the floor,just as gravity would have done had he died there.
No,I really dont think Nevill was moved by anyone,he was shot slumped over the scuttle with his arms hanging down.
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I don't follow.
If gulity Jeremy Bamber was only leaving the farmhouse satisfied everyone was dead.
What ever happened after ( police in WHF) is out of his control.
His primary focus is sticking to his story
I'm sure Jeremy Bamber had a preconceived plan. But things didn't go to plan, to which the two shots to Sheila and the scuffle with Nevill attest.
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Everyone's scenarios are all over the place at the moment.Not sure who thinks the police moved Nevill and who doesn't.Regarding this,you also have to decide when the final four head shots were inflicted.
What I am getting at is,if Nevill was moved to the scuttle after death and rigor mortis had set in,why is he curled up in a ball?
What I mean is,if JB shot and killed Nevill before he fell abainst the Aga,why did his body curl up?
Isn't that a strange position to fall into once yout stone dead after four head shots? And make no mistake about it,none of the four final head shots could have been inflicted once Nevill hit the floor lying on his right side,no way.
Sheila was shot in the brain and instantly fell down flat,June was shot twice in the head and was found in a similar pose.Why did Nevill curl up so tightly when he fell to the floor after his head shots,is this possible? Can instinct cause you to curl up with your knees touching your chin more or less without any brain function?
Knees tucked in and arms outstretched.Again,how could you stretch your arms out straight with no brain function to do so?
YET,for those of you who think Nevill was moved from the Aga by the police after rigor mortis had set in,this must indeed be the position he was lying in in front of the Aga.
Lucky that Nevill stretched both arms out in front of him after he was dead,this looks natural once he was moved to the scuttle with them hanging down towards the floor,just as gravity would have done had he died there.
No,I really dont think Nevill was moved by anyone,he was shot slumped over the scuttle with his arms hanging down.
But I thought you agreed with that Rochdale woman (can't recall her name for the moment) who claimed a triumphant breakthrough when she claimed the marks on Nevill's flesh were made by the Aga knob.
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But I thought you agreed with that Rochdale woman (can't recall her name for the moment) who claimed a triumphant breakthrough when she claimed the marks on Nevill's flesh were made by the Aga knob.
If you are referring to Yvonne Hartley Steve,then yes and no.
Yes I agree that the Aga made the burn marks and no I dont think the police moved Nevill.
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But I thought you agreed with that Rochdale woman (can't recall her name for the moment) who claimed a triumphant breakthrough when she claimed the marks on Nevill's flesh were made by the Aga knob.
If Nevil is lying against the Aga unconscious then Bamber would just finish him off where he lay, he would not mess about placing him over the chair etc. with all the risk this entails stepping in blood etc.
I am afraid Steve the Crown have no plausible JB scenario, absolutely no aspect is plausible please at least be honest.
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Everyone's scenarios are all over the place at the moment.Not sure who thinks the police moved Nevill and who doesn't.Regarding this,you also have to decide when the final four head shots were inflicted.
What I am getting at is,if Nevill was moved to the scuttle after death and rigor mortis had set in,why is he curled up in a ball?
What I mean is,if JB shot and killed Nevill before he fell abainst the Aga,why did his body curl up?
Isn't that a strange position to fall into once yout stone dead after four head shots? And make no mistake about it,none of the four final head shots could have been inflicted once Nevill hit the floor lying on his right side,no way.
Sheila was shot in the brain and instantly fell down flat,June was shot twice in the head and was found in a similar pose.Why did Nevill curl up so tightly when he fell to the floor after his head shots,is this possible? Can instinct cause you to curl up with your knees touching your chin more or less without any brain function?
Knees tucked in and arms outstretched.Again,how could you stretch your arms out straight with no brain function to do so?
YET,for those of you who think Nevill was moved from the Aga by the police after rigor mortis had set in,this must indeed be the position he was lying in in front of the Aga.
Lucky that Nevill stretched both arms out in front of him after he was dead,this looks natural once he was moved to the scuttle with them hanging down towards the floor,just as gravity would have done had he died there.
No,I really dont think Nevill was moved by anyone,he was shot slumped over the scuttle with his arms hanging down.
During the first world war many dead soldiers where found in a foetal position. I have posted this fact before. Apparently when you die in agony it is a position that is adopted
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During the first world war many dead soldiers where found in a foetal position. I have posted this fact before. Apparently when you die in agony it is a position that is adopted
Even when you are shot several times in the head Bubo? Wouldn't you die instantly?
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During the first world war many dead soldiers where found in a foetal position. I have posted this fact before. Apparently when you die in agony it is a position that is adopted
A lot of people sleep that way as well.
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Even when you are shot several times in the head Bubo?
I do not think he was shot four times in the head before adopting that position maybe once. The fact is the other three could have been made by SC and just happened to be close to the existing one. I do have another suggestion it can be found in this link.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10682.msg530610.html#msg530610
of course the other possibility is that they were administered just before he collapsed for the last time or his head had 'flopped' into a position which allowed this when he was pinned against the Aga
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I do not think he was shot four times in the head before adopting that position maybe once. The fact is the other three could have been made by SC and just happened to be close to the existing one. I do have another suggestion it can be found in this link.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10682.msg530610.html#msg530610
of course the other possibility is that they were administered just before he collapsed for the last time or his head had 'flopped' into a position which allowed this when he was pinned against the Aga
Thanks Bubo.If June was tending Nevill while he was against the Aga,wouldn't this action cause him to move or be moved by June therefore his back would not be firmly against the Aga continually for the marks to form?
Doesn't your scenario work just as well without the police moving Nevill Bubo? They could still have accidentally killed June and used the Aga couldn't they? What would be the difference?
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I believe he was shot four times upstairs and then subsequently beaten.
I believe he got back downstairs to the kitchen and slumped on the chair before receiving the final four head shots.
Obviously including the struggle in the kitchen and the aga. And the burns
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I believe he was shot four times upstairs and then subsequently beaten.
I believe he got back downstairs to the kitchen and slumped on the chair before receiving the final four head shots.
Obviously including the struggle in the kitchen and the aga. And the burns
Yes I agree with that ILB,but I think his back was burned before he was shot at all.
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Yes I agree with that ILB,but I think his back was burned before he was shot at all.
How?
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Thanks Bubo.If June was tending Nevill while he was against the Aga,wouldn't this action cause him to move or be moved by June therefore his back would not be firmly against the Aga continually for the marks to form?
Doesn't your scenario work just as well without the police moving Nevill Bubo? They could still have accidentally killed June and used the Aga couldn't they? What would be the difference?
No because once he had died she retreated to the box room. I believe he was stuck against the Aga possibly his PJ top pierced by the handle (see shape and location of tear) and was incapable of much independent movement and was too heavy a dead weight for June to move him
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How?
See the 'Three hour Aga burns' topic Adam.
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See the 'Three hour Aga burns' topic Adam.
Just give me a sentance.
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No because once he had died she retreated to the box room. I believe he was stuck against the Aga possibly his PJ top pierced by the handle (see shape and location of tear) and was incapable of much independent movement and was too heavy a dead weight for June to move him
Yes,he may well have been attached as it were by his pyjama jacket getting torn and snagged to an Aga handle Bubo,this would also have moved the jacket to the side and allowed the hot parts of the Aga direct contact with Nevills skin.
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Just give me a sentance.
Four years for gross spamming offences against the human race on 'The Jeremy Bamber Website'.
How's that?
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Four years for gross spamming offences against the human race on 'The Jeremy Bamber Website'.
How's that?
So no reason.
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So no reason.
You know there are some of us who think that Nevill may have been knocked out and fell against the Aga before regaining conciousness and being shot.
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You know there are some of us who think that Nevill may have been knocked out and fell against the Aga before regaining conciousness and being shot.
It leads to the question of what the the perpetrator was doing while this was taking place snow
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If Nevil is lying against the Aga unconscious then Bamber would just finish him off where he lay, he would not mess about placing him over the chair etc. with all the risk this entails stepping in blood etc.
I am afraid Steve the Crown have no plausible JB scenario, absolutely no aspect is plausible please at least be honest.
Well, that's even MORE true of EP LOL
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It leads to the question of what the the perpetrator was doing while this was taking place snow
If Sheila ,Simply killing everyone else ILB,then washing,writing notes or whatever.
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I expect it was gravity and expedience rather than deliberate. He was either toppled in to that position of lifted for some reason by several coppers. Why would Jeremy want to portray Sheila as having pulled her father's pyjama bottoms down?
Gravity couldn't have allowed him to fall in that position. I didn't say he did - I SAID that's what HE did but by the same token, why would the police leave him in that position? This has to be the most ridiculous suggestion yet - the police would have had NO REASON to move the body of Nevill - absolutely none!
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Four years for gross spamming offences against the human race on 'The Jeremy Bamber Website'.
How's that?
Far to lenient a whole life tariff. Let his see what that feels like.
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Far to lenient a whole life tariff. Let his see what that feels like.
Well,I am a bit of a softie Bubo.
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You know there are some of us who think that Nevill may have been knocked out and fell against the Aga before regaining conciousness and being shot.
What was Sheila doing while Nevill was unconcious?
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If Nevil is lying against the Aga unconscious then Bamber would just finish him off where he lay, he would not mess about placing him over the chair etc. with all the risk this entails stepping in blood etc.
I am afraid Steve the Crown have no plausible JB scenario, absolutely no aspect is plausible please at least be honest.
But it's just like Jeremy to play a prank on police by propping him up against the door. I thought most of the blood was on the floor beneath the kitchen telephone anyway.
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What was Sheila doing while Nevill was unconcious?
I just explained to ILB,killing everyone else essentially then washing,reading the Bible,writing notes ,any other mundane cleaning tasks that disturbed people do,as outlined by' Knight' was it?
Nevill subsequently came to, injured and shaken before also being despatched.
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But it's just like Jeremy to play a prank on police by propping him up against the door. I thought most of the blood was on the floor beneath the kitchen telephone anyway.
Most of the blood was around Nevil where he was found, and according to some statements the pool or blood was getting larger?
So if you are saying that JB could not risk footprints I don't think he would be playing a prank like this. He had better things to do like give the silencer a good clean, or even easier just place it beside Sheila and ruffing her up so it looked like she had been in a fight.
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I just explained to ILB,killing everyone else essentially then washing,reading the Bible,writing notes ,any other mundane cleaning tasks that disturbed people do,as outlined by' Knight' was it?
Nevill subsequently came to, injured and shaken before also being despatched.
The night of the WHF tragedy
« on: July 30, 2023, 03:36:PM »
As I have consistently maintained nobody knows all that happened after JB left and the time the TFG entered. It is foolish to pretend otherwise. It must be remembered that at the heart of this tragedy was a lost young woman with huge mental health issues. Supposedly schizophrenic and liable to psychotic episodes involving self- harm and possibly presenting a danger to others.
It is not possible to predict behaviour or to understand the thought processes of a person so inflicted. Rational explanations based on normal behaviour are pointless as what they choose to do at any particular moment is hugely unpredictable. They can act in ways that appear to be a totally illogical to others.
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Most of the blood was around Nevil where he was found, and according to some statements the pool or blood was getting larger?
So if you are saying that JB could not risk footprints I don't think he would be playing a prank like this. He had better things to do like give the silencer a good clean, or even easier just place it beside Sheila and ruffing her up so it looked like she had been in a fight.
He couldn't place the silencer beside Sheila because she couldn't reach the trigger with it attached. Most of the blood in the kitchen was found on the floor near the telephone area, though there were pools by Nevill which he had tried to halt by placing the cushions there to mop it up.
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He couldn't place the silencer beside Sheila because she couldn't reach the trigger with it attached. Most of the blood in the kitchen was found on the floor near the telephone area, though there were pools by Nevill which he had tried to halt by placing the cushions there to mop it up.
Of course he could leave the silencer beside Sheila, she cannot reach the trigger so she unscrews it and places it beside her. Which is what JB would have done, instead he places it in the cupboard without cleaning it where sooner or latter it will be found.
He has every opportunity to go back latter and tidy up loose ends but instead lets the relatives have the keys. You expect me to believe this?
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Of course he could leave the silencer beside Sheila, she cannot reach the trigger so she unscrews it and places it beside her. Which is what JB would have done, instead he places it in the cupboard without cleaning it where sooner or latter it will be found.
He has every opportunity to go back latter and tidy up loose ends but instead lets the relatives have the keys. You expect me to believe this?
But wasn't the blood in the silencer, not the rifle? He doesn't have an opportunity to step inside the farm post-murders, apart from breaking in mid-September, which must seem suspicious even to the innocent diehards.