Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on November 04, 2022, 03:09:PM
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My view is he phoned his AM from WHF around 3am.
This gives him an easy 26/36 minutes to get back to WHF & phone Chelmsford police. Either before or after washing & changing.
Ringing at 3.10am it is still possible but more of a rush.
Bamber would have said 3.10am either in error, or he didn't want the time gap before he called Chelmsford police to be too long.
If BT could trace the call & said it was at 3.00am, Bamber can just say 'I was half asleep & got the time 10 minutes wrong'.
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My view is he phoned his AM from WHF around 3am.
This gives him an easy 26/36 minutes to get back to WHF & phone Chelmsford police. Either before or after washing & changing.
Ringing at 3.10am it is still possible but more of a rush.
Bamber would have said 3.10am either in error, or he didn't want the time gap before he called Chelmsford police to be too long.
If BT could trace the call & said it was at 3.00am, Bamber can just say 'I was half asleep & got the time 10 minutes wrong'.
Saying he spent 16/26 minutes looking through Yellow Pages is already unbelivable. Twenty six/36 minutes would be even worse.
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Saying he spent 16/26 minutes looking through Yellow Pages is already unbelivable. Twenty six/36 minutes would be even worse.
I agree Adam, a guilty man would have just dialed 999.
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I agree Adam, a guilty man would have just dialed 999.
Yes everyone would call 999.
Obviously several reasons why Bamber called the sixth furthest away police station. After looking through Yellow Pages.
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Yes everyone would call 999.
Obviously several reasons why Bamber called the sixth furthest away police station. After looking through Yellow Pages.
Please explain? months planning why did he not dial 999 no reason why not that I can see? If guilty it's a no brainer he would, if innocent and flustered maybe not.
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Please explain? months planning why did he not dial 999 no reason why not that I can see? If guilty it's a no brainer he would, if innocent and flustered maybe not.
It has already been said several times why Bamber called the sixth furthest away police station.
It is called planning.
I will leave you to work out the reasons.
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Please explain? months planning why did he not dial 999 no reason why not that I can see? If guilty it's a no brainer he would, if innocent and flustered maybe not.
He had to tidy himself up between the murders and involvement of police. Not dialling 999 gave him the excuse that he was flicking through Yellow Pages looking for the Chelmsford number.
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He had to tidy himself up between the murders and involvement of police. Not dialling 999 gave him the excuse that he was flicking through Yellow Pages looking for the Chelmsford number.
Thanks for helping Adam out Steve, yes I realize this is the only plausible reason but my problem is from putting the phone down at 3.10 and phoning the police at 3.26 JB just does not have time.
Clambering out of the window and putting all the bits and pieces back would take five minutes alone.
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Thanks for helping Adam out Steve, yes I realize this is the only plausible reason but my problem is from putting the phone down at 3.10 and phoning the police at 3.26 JB just does not have time.
Clambering out of the window and putting all the bits and pieces back would take five minutes alone.
We don't know the time of the alleged call, whether it was from Nevill as the Defence asserts or Jeremy telephoning his answerphone from White House Farm. We don't even know the exact time of Jeremy's call to Julie. However given that their relationship had been cooling for months (Jeremy's own words to police under interrogation in September) it's strange that he telephoned her at all, imparting information at an early stage of the crime.
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We don't know the time of the alleged call, whether it was from Nevill as the Defence asserts or Jeremy telephoning his answerphone from White House Farm. We don't even know the exact time of Jeremy's call to Julie. However given that their relationship had been cooling for months (Jeremy's own words to police under interrogation in September) it's strange that he telephoned her at all, imparting information at an early stage of the crime.
Yes I have puzzled over why Jeremy calls Julie at all? was he trying to give her an alibi is the only reason I can think of? assuming he is guilty that is.
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Yes I have puzzled over why Jeremy calls Julie at all? was he trying to give her an alibi is the only reason I can think of? assuming he is guilty that is.
He was trying to rope her in as an accessory.
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Yes I have puzzled over why Jeremy calls Julie at all? was he trying to give her an alibi is the only reason I can think of? assuming he is guilty that is.
Julie was in London. In a flat with several other people. No alibi needed.
He rang Julie as he was hyped up & wanted to tell her - 'everything is going well', 'I haven't slept all night' & 'there is something wrong at the farm'.
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He had to tidy himself up between the murders and involvement of police. Not dialling 999 gave him the excuse that he was flicking through Yellow Pages looking for the Chelmsford number.
That has already been said.
Rob was not able to work it out. Asking me to explain why Bamber phoned the sixth furthest away police station. Saying a guilty Bamber would have dialled 999.
There are other reasons why he dialled Chelmsford police.
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That has already been said.
Rob was not able to work it out. Asking me to explain why Bamber phoned the sixth furthest away police station. Saying a guilty Bamber would have dialled 999.
There are other reasons why he dialled Chelmsford police.
You never repeat anything Adam, do you..
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I don't believe the defence at trial or the CT have really questioned the prosecution narrative - Bamber phoned his cottage from WHF, then cycled back and called the police.
It is all straight forward.
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I don't believe the defence at trial or the CT have really questioned the prosecution narrative - Bamber phoned his cottage from WHF, then cycled back and called the police.
It is all straight forward.
I agree provided you accept Bamber is trying his best to get caught, otherwise nothing makes sense.
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Correct Rob. Whoever committed these murders wanted to be found and wasn't concerned about the consequences, which points to someone present in the farmhouse that morning when the police arrived." Elementary my dear Watson ".
JB was convicted on " hints " only.
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I don't believe the defence at trial or the CT have really questioned the prosecution narrative - Bamber phoned his cottage from WHF, then cycled back and called the police.
It is all straight forward.
The cycling is purely speculative
Nothing to prove it
A bike at a cottage in 1985 is akin to a man calling for a pint after work
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The cycling is purely speculative
Nothing to prove it
A bike at a cottage in 1985 is akin to a man calling for a pint after work
I don't recall any of Bamber's associates ever state at any time that cycling was one of his regular pastimes.
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I don't recall any of Bamber's associates ever state at any time that cycling was one of his regular pastimes.
Jeremy has always been fit as a fiddle Steve.
He enjoyed cycling
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Jeremy has always been fit as a fiddle Steve.
He enjoyed cycling
So that's why he didn't have a bike.
Anyway, source please.
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So that's why he didn't have a bike.
Anyway, source please.
Transcript of interview " I had a race with the farm boy scooter"
Gresham's Norfolk.
Long lartin circa 1994
Et al
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Transcript of interview " I had a race with the farm boy scooter"
Gresham's Norfolk.
Long lartin circa 1994
Et al
Please provide a source or sources that Bamber enjoyed cycling. Proper sources.
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Jeremy has always been fit as a fiddle Steve.
He enjoyed cycling
He was so fit he failed the scuba diving medical in New Zealand.
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He was so fit he failed the scuba diving medical in New Zealand.
Which was down to being dropped on the head.
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Bamber was quite fit.
Mainly because he was 24 & did physical work. He would want to keep himself slim for his romances although not aware of him doing anything else exercise wise.
He needed to be quite fit during his fight with Nevill and to cycle to/from WHF. Cycling back he may have gone full pelt.
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Bamber was quite fit.
Mainly because he was 24 & did physical work. He would want to keep himself slim for his romances although not aware of him doing anything else exercise wise.
He needed to be quite fit during his fight with Nevill and to cycle to/from WHF. Cycling back he may have gone full pelt.
Look.
The fact is we can argue this to the cows come home. The fact of the matter is nothing ties bamber to using a bike.
Arguing June's bike at his cottage is weak. It doesn't prove anything. It's a narrative
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Bamber was quite fit.
Each to their own....
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He was no way as fit as his father !! Read into that if you will !
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He was no way as fit as his father !! Read into that if you will !
Why not?
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I don't believe the defence at trial or the CT have really questioned the prosecution narrative - Bamber phoned his cottage from WHF, then cycled back and called the police.
It is all straight forward.
It's not straight forward at all.
It can't be proved.
You are just projecting theories.
Without evidence to substantiate
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In regards to the phonecalls
The technology wasn't there to prove or disprove
It's simple as that.
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It's not straight forward at all.
It can't be proved.
You are just projecting theories.
Without evidence to substantiate
It is the prosecution theory.
The forensic evidence confirming Bamber is guilty is in the COA & other documents.
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It is the prosecution theory.
The forensic evidence confirming Bamber is guilty is in the COA & other documents.
Theory yes. Not proof
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It's not straight forward at all.
It can't be proved.
You are just projecting theories.
Without evidence to substantiate
Robert Boutflour came up with the Bike idea which he passed onto Stan Jones. Jones then passed the idea onto Julie and it later became part of the BS she concocted. That is pretty much all there is to it.
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Robert Boutflour came up with the Bike idea which he passed onto Stan Jones. Jones then passed the idea onto Julie and it later became part of the BS she concocted. That is pretty much all there is to it.
You think Stan Jones fed Julie information for her to put into her WS?
Why would Jones then not omit Matthew McDonald from her WS?
Bamber has never denied Julie saw the bike at his cottage pre massacre.
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You think Stan Jones fed Julie information for her to put into her WS?
Why would Jones then not omit Matthew McDonald from her WS?
Bamber has never denied Julie saw the bike at his cottage pre massacre.
Why would he deny the bike being at his cottage.
He himself said if had there for up to 8 weeks
Do believe the idea from the police was bourne out of RWB suggestion though
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Why would he deny the bike being at his cottage.
He himself said if had there for up to 8 weeks
Do believe the idea from the police was bourne out of RWB suggestion though
Bamber said the bike had been there around 5 weeks. A month after the massacre.
I believe Bamber told Julie he planned to cycle. Which is in her WS.
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You think Stan Jones fed Julie information for her to put into her WS?
Correct
Why would Jones then not omit Matthew McDonald from her WS?
Because he was a halfwit who thought Julie was being honest. He didn't know or understand that Julie was using ideas she heard from him or others. He thought she had confirmed the ideas he brought up, he was too stupid to realise Julie had simply agreed with things he had brought up.
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Correct
Because he was a halfwit who thought Julie was being honest. He didn't know or understand that Julie was using ideas she heard from him or others. He thought she had confirmed the ideas he brought up, he was too stupid to realise Julie had simply agreed with things he had brought up.
So you now believe the police were involved in the framing of Bamber. Rather than just the relatives.
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Bamber said the bike had been there around 5 weeks. A month after the massacre.
I believe Bamber told Julie he planned to cycle. Which is in her WS.
He said six to eight weeks.
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Bamber said the bike had been there around 5 weeks. A month after the massacre.
I believe Bamber told Julie he planned to cycle. Which is in her WS.
If you look at the timeline of the bike. In regards to all rwb ep and JM it fits very well doesn't it. If you put things into chronological order
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He said six to eight weeks.
I will have to read the police interviews.
Julie first saw the bike the weekend before Bamber committed the massacre.
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Correct
Because he was a halfwit who thought Julie was being honest. He didn't know or understand that Julie was using ideas she heard from him or others. He thought she had confirmed the ideas he brought up, he was too stupid to realise Julie had simply agreed with things he had brought up.
Julie would have been the halfwit had she invented the Matthew McDonald story.
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I will have to read the police interviews.
Julie first saw the bike the weekend before Bamber committed the massacre.
Why do we discuss the bike in so much detail? Why is empathise put upon it.
Even if guilty. He had the options of two other modes of transport. He could drive. He could also walk.
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If Jeremy bamber owned a bike himself which was something for example he had bought in July 1978. It holds the same weight as June's bike being at his cottage
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I don't read much into the bike. I do believe ep got the idea from the relatives as David pointed out.
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I don't read much into the bike. I do believe ep got the idea from the relatives as David pointed out.
Yes the relatives & Julie would have mentioned the bike to EP.
Resulting in the prosecution case being that Bamber cycled to/from WHF.
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If Jeremy bamber owned a bike himself which was something for example he had bought in July 1978. It holds the same weight as June's bike being at his cottage
Probably.
Going by the circumstantial evidence, the prosecution case is he stole June's bike just before the massacre as Bamber did not have his own bike.
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Why do we discuss the bike in so much detail? Why is empathise put upon it.
Even if guilty. He had the options of two other modes of transport. He could drive. He could also walk.
Driving was not an option. Too much risk of people seeing or hearing him leave/arrive.
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Why do we discuss the bike in so much detail? Why is empathise put upon it.
Even if guilty. He had the options of two other modes of transport. He could drive. He could also walk.
Walking was not an option. Too long a walk.
He had to ring the police after phoning his AM from WHF within a realistic timescale. June's bike gave him that option.
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Walking was not an option. Too long a walk.
He had to ring the police after phoning his AM from WHF within a realistic timescale. June's bike gave him that option.
It's not to long a walk is it for a fit and healthy 24 year old man.
Timescale wise if gulity he had a three hour window from midnight
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Driving was not an option. Too much risk of people seeing or hearing him leave/arrive.
The whole thing is risky.
Anybody could have seen him walking bike or car. It didn't even have to be a conclusive ID. Just " a man out and about in the early hours "
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Probably.
Going by the circumstantial evidence, the prosecution case is he stole June's bike just before the massacre as Bamber did not have his own bike.
I will check now. Cannot remember answered six to eight weeks from the time of the massacre. Or from when the September interviews
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The whole thing is risky.
Anybody could have seen him walking bike or car. It didn't even have to be a conclusive ID. Just " a man out and about in the early hours "
Least risk & effort cycling. A risk he was prepared to take.
He had to phone the police within a realistic time after phoning his AM from WHF. Impossible without a bike.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10043.0.html
Page 23.
Julie said she first saw June's bike on the 4th August. Two days before Bamber committed the massacre.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10043.0.html
Page 23.
Julie said she first saw June's bike on the 4th August. Two days before Bamber committed the massacre.
ILB is correct Adam,Julie's statements are full of strange inconsistencies,non more so in the details about the bike.
Allegedly in June 1985 just a couple of months before the crime JB tells Julie that he hopes Sheila will come to stay at the farm and that he will use a bike to carry out the murders.Ok,fair enough.
Fast forward to 4th Aug and this is what Julie also says in her statement-----
I can say that when I arrived at Jeremy's house on Sunday 4th August 1985 I saw a ladies cycle by the toilet of Jeremy's house.I asked Jeremy why it was there and where had it come from and he told me that it was his mothers and he had got it so I could use it.I had not previously asked him to get me a bike although I think I might have suggested it might be handy sometime the previous summer.--------
Ok,lets just think about it,Bamber tells Julie that when Sheila hopefully comes to stay at the farm he will use a bicycle to carry out the murder of his family.
So,lo and behold on the 4th of Aug Sheila is staying at the farm and Jeremy has a bike at his house.Now,was Julie too dumb to realise what this meant? Couldn't she remember what was said by Bamber,did she need it spelled out,- Sheila visiting WHF + bike =MURDERS!!!
If not,had Bamber a temporary loss of memory too when she asked what the bike was for?
Why didn't he say something like- Cant you guess why its here? Its for cycling to the farm to kill my family ,I told you my plan just weeks ago remember? Dont tell me you forgot! You really are a dozy cow Julie.
No,no such dialogue whatsoever.WHY?
All that Julie does is more or less confirm what JB said,that the bike was taken to the cottage for her use which she admits requesting herself the previous summer.
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The prosecution case was that Bamber used the bike and that was the sole purpose of it being at his cottage,indeed he had told Julie he was going to use a bike to carry out the murders just weeks before it appeared.Yet,when Julie asked for confirmation as to why the bike was at his cottage he replied for her use.
Why didn't JB tell her it was for transport to the farm to kill his family? He had already told her his plan,why try to tell her the bike was for her,she was more or less his accomplice whom he allegegly gave a running commentary about the shooting.
So why would JB deny what the bike was for to Julie? Doesn't make much sense does it? He told her everything else in the run up to the murders didn't he?
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The prosecution case was that Bamber used the bike and that was the sole purpose of it being at his cottage,indeed he had told Julie he was going to use a bike to carry out the murders just weeks before it appeared.Yet,when Julie asked for confirmation as to why the bike was at his cottage he replied for her use.
Why didn't JB tell her it was for transport to the farm to kill his family? He had already told her his plan,why try to tell her the bike was for her,she was more or less his accomplice whom he allegegly gave a running commentary about the shooting.
So why would JB deny what the bike was for to Julie? Doesn't make much sense does it? He told her everything else in the run up to the murders didn't he?
Because he was going to tell her MM committed the massacre.
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ILB is correct Adam,Julie's statements are full of strange inconsistencies,non more so in the details about the bike.
Allegedly in June 1985 just a couple of months before the crime JB tells Julie that he hopes Sheila will come to stay at the farm and that he will use a bike to carry out the murders.Ok,fair enough.
Fast forward to 4th Aug and this is what Julie also says in her statement-----
I can say that when I arrived at Jeremy's house on Sunday 4th August 1985 I saw a ladies cycle by the toilet of Jeremy's house.I asked Jeremy why it was there and where had it come from and he told me that it was his mothers and he had got it so I could use it.I had not previously asked him to get me a bike although I think I might have suggested it might be handy sometime the previous summer.--------
Ok,lets just think about it,Bamber tells Julie that when Sheila hopefully comes to stay at the farm he will use a bicycle to carry out the murder of his family.
So,lo and behold on the 4th of Aug Sheila is staying at the farm and Jeremy has a bike at his house.Now,was Julie too dumb to realise what this meant? Couldn't she remember what was said by Bamber,did she need it spelled out,- Sheila visiting WHF + bike =MURDERS!!!
If not,had Bamber a temporary loss of memory too when she asked what the bike was for?
Why didn't he say something like- Cant you guess why its here? Its for cycling to the farm to kill my family ,I told you my plan just weeks ago remember? Dont tell me you forgot! You really are a dozy cow Julie.
No,no such dialogue whatsoever.WHY?
All that Julie does is more or less confirm what JB said,that the bike was taken to the cottage for her use which she admits requesting herself the previous summer.
Because he was going to tell her MM committed the massacre.
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Least risk & effort cycling. A risk he was prepared to take.
He had to phone the police within a realistic time after phoning his AM from WHF. Impossible without a bike.
Disagree.
What ever way you look at it he had the window of opportunity to do what he did with walking.
If guilty of course
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Seems to me the bike scenario was championed.
Regardless of gulit or innocence I do believe he got the bike for the purpose of Julie. Or something mundane.
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Disagree.
What ever way you look at it he had the window of opportunity to do what he did with walking.
Why would Bamber spend over 2 hours walking when he could cycle?
The walking & cycling routes would be similar or the same.
As said he had to phone the police within 20 - 30 minutes of phoning his AM. Only possible using June's bike.
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Find it interesting in CALS book.
The relatives reference an incident where bamber in a strop got out of the car and proceeded to walk miles home.
Was this is a mundane reason or something to be projected as sinister?
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The land between Head Street & WHF looks flat. No hills to cycle up.
With no traffic & good terrain should be able to get quite a speed up.
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I will check now. Cannot remember answered six to eight weeks from the time of the massacre. Or from when the September interviews
From the time of the interviews.
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AE said she first saw June's bike at Bamber's cottage when visiting a few hours after the massacre.
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5816.msg258974.html#msg258974
Page 8. Bamber says the bike arrived at his cottage a week before he committed the massacre.
Sounds about right. Gives him time to do a trial run.
Julie seeing it 3 days before the massacre. AE a few hours afterwards.
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Obviously a lot supporting Julie's WS that Bamber said he planned to cycle.
EP & the prosecution certainly thought so.
The defence that Bamber brought it for Julie to cycle 3 miles to the train station has no credibility.
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5816.msg258974.html#msg258974
Page 8. Bamber says the bike arrived at his cottage a week before he committed the massacre.
Sounds about right. Gives him time to do a trial run.
Julie seeing it 3 days before the massacre. AE a few hours afterwards.
It's all purely speculative though isn't it.
You have to admit that
Nothing ties him to doing a bicycle journey
Physically evidential wise
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Why would Bamber spend over 2 hours walking when he could cycle?
The walking & cycling routes would be similar or the same.
As said he had to phone the police within 20 - 30 minutes of phoning his AM. Only possible using June's bike.
Why 2 hours Adam? a person can walk approx. 3 miles an hour faster if jogging.
Stop telling porkies to pretend JB cycling is the only option, though we all know why you persist with this.
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Why 2 hours Adam? a person can walk approx. 3 miles an hour faster if jogging.
Stop telling porkies to pretend JB cycling is the only option, though we all know why you persist with this.
Why would Bamber jog there & back when he can cycle?
He stole June's bike just before the massacre for goodness sake.
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Why would Bamber jog there & back when he can cycle?
He stole June's bike just before the massacre for goodness sake.
Adam, you have zero proof of this
Why champion a ground you can't prove at all.
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Rob is now saying Bamber could jog there and back in the dark. But not cycle in the dark.
Better to focus on an amended Sheila scenario. His only attempt had 56 flaws & relied on 47 invented 'maybe's'.
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Adam, you have zero proof of this
Why champion a ground you can't prove at all.
Did you read Bamber's police interviews?
Bamber, Julie & AE have confirmed he stole June's bike just before the massacre.
He had to cycle to be able to phone the police within 20 - 30 minutes after phoning his AM.
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Did you read Bamber's police interviews?
Bamber, Julie & AE have confirmed he stole June's bike just before the massacre.
He had to cycle to be able to phone the police within 20 - 30 minutes after phoning his AM.
Don't talk wet Adam how can you steel a bike from your mum?
Why does he put himself under time pressure when there was no need?
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Don't talk wet Adam how can you steel a bike from your mum?
Why does he put himself under time pressure when there was no need?
By taking it back to his cottage?
You know from Mary Mugford's testimony Bamber & June had not engaged for years.
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Don't talk wet Adam how can you steel a bike from your mum?
Why does he put himself under time pressure when there was no need?
He has to phone his AM so there is a record of a received call from WHF.
How are you getting on with your amended Sheila scenario?
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Rob comes up with very weak obstacles for the straight forward Bamber scenario.
I did show him that his Sheila scenario needs a complete overhaul. It had 56 flaws & 47 'maybe's'.
But he gave up over a year ago trying to explain how she could have committed the massacre. Confirming Bamber's guilt.
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He has to phone his AM so there is a record of a received call from WHF.
How are you getting on with your amended Sheila scenario?
Amended Adam yes there are a couple of flaws like what woke Nevil up, maybe soon ;)
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Rob comes up with very weak obstacles for the straight forward Bamber scenario.
I did show him that his Sheila scenario needs a complete overhaul. It had 56 flaws & 47 'maybe's'.
But he gave up over a year ago trying to explain how she could have committed the massacre. Confirming Bamber's guilt.
Sorry it's 53 flaws & 48 'maybe's'.
He did amend the time Nevill spent ringing Bamber's AM. From 11 minutes to 30 seconds!
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Rob comes up with very weak obstacles for the straight forward Bamber scenario.
I did show him that his Sheila scenario needs a complete overhaul. It had 56 flaws & 47 'maybe's'.
But he gave up over a year ago trying to explain how she could have committed the massacre. Confirming Bamber's guilt.
I don't get a lot of time Adam, so writing something you will just play games with is a waste.
As you know I see no problems with Sheila committing the crime, and neither did the police.
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Did you read Bamber's police interviews?
Bamber, Julie & AE have confirmed he stole June's bike just before the massacre.
He had to cycle to be able to phone the police within 20 - 30 minutes after phoning his AM.
Jeremy bamber never said ," I stole my mother's bike "
You are full of shit my friend
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Jeremy bamber never said ," I stole my mother's bike "
You are full of shit my friend
Classy.
You now agree the bike ended up at Bamber's cottage just before the massacre.
You are well aware Bamber & June had not engaged for years.
There is no question Bamber stole June's bike.
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Jeremy bamber never said ," I stole my mother's bike "
You are full of shit my friend
How are you getting on with your second Sheila scenario?
Your first one 100 flaws & 'maybe's'.
You even said Sheila beat Nevill on 3 seperate occasions.
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Classy.
You now agree the bike ended up at Bamber's cottage just before the massacre.
You are well aware Bamber & June had not engaged for years.
There is no question Bamber stole June's bike.
That is again absolute shit Adam.
I don't doubt Bamber and June had their differences. He was no doubt a pain in the arse monetary wise. She also was religion wise
Snippets of what mm said ( the mother of a key prosecution witness,) don't paint the relationship of bamber and his mother
They did have dialogue
It is ridiculous to say otherwise
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That is again absolute shit Adam.
I don't doubt Bamber and June had their differences. He was no doubt a pain in the arse monetary wise. She also was religion wise
Snippets of what mm said ( the mother of a key prosecution witness,) don't paint the relationship of bamber and his mother
They did have dialogue
It is ridiculous to say otherwise
You are full of absolute shit ILB.
And that is just your Sheila scenario.
Do you now agree the bike ended up at Bamber's cottage just before the massacre. Bamber does say this himself.
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Osea meetings
Not one relative has said bamber and June ignored each other
Emanis statement confirms Shelia intensely disliked her mother
A guy who once played monopoly, with bamber. a friend of julies confirmed bamber said " I fucking hate my parents" and was actually produced as a witness.
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You are full of absolute shit ILB.
And that is just your Sheila scenario.
Do you now agree the bike ended up at Bamber's cottage just before the massacre. Bamber does say this himself.
Bamber said the bike was at bourtree approximately six to eight weeks before.
Bamber never said
" I nicked mums bike "
" I took it without her consent "
He gave his reason why the bike was at his cottage. His own words
His uncle offered a bicycle theory.
Nobody can place Jeremy bamber evidential wise operating that bicycle August 7th 1985.
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Bamber said the bike was at bourtree approximately six to eight weeks before.
Bamber never said
" I nicked mums bike "
" I took it without her consent "
He gave his reason why the bike was at his cottage. His own words
His uncle offered a bicycle theory.
Nobody can place Jeremy bamber evidential wise operating that bicycle August 7th 1985.
Don't keep fire fighting. You are making yourself look stupid.
You agree the bike ended up at Bamber's cottage a few days before the massacre.
You are well aware Bamber stole the bike to commit the massacre. Bamber & June had not spoken for years.
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How are you getting on with your second Sheila scenario?
Your first one 100 flaws & 'maybe's'.
You even said Sheila beat Nevill on 3 seperate occasions.
How are you getting on with your clairvoyant bamber scenario?
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I got somewhere with ILB today.
We both agree the bike got to Bamber's cottage days before the massacre. Although he won't admit to this after previously claiming 6-8 weeks beforehand.
He is still amazingly saying Bamber didn't steal June's bike.
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ILB is still not accepting that Bamber would have time constraints after phoning his AM from WHF. Which only cycling would resolve.
He will agree that it is easier & quicker to cycle than walk. Only Rob is suggesting Bamber would jog.
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I got somewhere with ILB today.
We both agree the bike got to Bamber's cottage days before the massacre. Although he won't admit to this after previously claiming 6-8 weeks beforehand.
He is still amazingly saying Bamber didn't steal June's bike.
Jeremy Bamber ( the main man in this case) as early as September 1985 stated the bike had been at his cottage from six to eight weeks.
Bamber never stated he had stolen the bike
There is no evidence bamber stole the bike
Accept it
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Jeremy Bamber ( the main man in this case) as early as September 1985 stated the bike had been at his cottage from six to eight weeks.
Bamber never stated he had stolen the bike
There is no evidence bamber stole the bike
Accept it
Did you not read Bamber's police interviews. You said you were going to.
Have you not read Julie's & AE's WS's.
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Don't keep fire fighting. You are making yourself look stupid.
You agree the bike ended up at Bamber's cottage a few days before the massacre.
You are well aware Bamber stole the bike to commit the massacre. Bamber & June had not spoken for years.
Is there a doctor on here or somebody who can point this deeply troubled young man in need of help??
Has he read Bambers September 1985 interviews transcripts?
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Did you not read Bamber's police interviews. You said you were going to.
Have you not read Julie's & AE's WS's.
Did any of the relatives or friends of bamber state that bamber and June did not converse ?
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Did you not read Bamber's police interviews. You said you were going to.
Have you not read Julie's & AE's WS's.
No evidence Adam 😂😂😂
You're flogging a dead horse fella
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5816.msg258974.html#msg258974
Page 8 - Bamber.
It is 6-8 weeks ago the bike was at my cottage. Which is a week before the massacre.
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ILB said today he was going to read the police interviews. However didn't report back after reading what Bamber said.
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5816.msg258974.html#msg258974
Page 8 - Bamber.
It is 6-8 weeks ago the bike was at my cottage. Which is a week before the massacre.
Ok so where does he state he stole the bike you tit
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Bamber states his own mother consented he took the bicycle
So he never stole it
So what you are claiming is null and void
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Ok so where does he state he stole the bike you tit
Good we agree the bike ended up at his cottage a few days before the massacre. That took long enough.
Have you not read about how Bamber & June did not engage?
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Good we agree the bike ended up at his cottage a few days before the massacre. That took long enough.
Have you not read about how Bamber & June did not engage?
I'm happy to discuss a subject change as soon as what you clam is null and void.
Show me evidence bamber and June did not converse
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Bamber burnt down the caravan shop, stole from the caravan site & massacred his family.
But asked June if he could borrow her bike!
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Bamber burnt down the caravan shop, stole from the caravan site & massacred his family.
But asked June if he could borrow her bike!
Evidence bamber burnt the caravan shop please
Believe he stole from the site with the key prosecution witness against him in a murder trial.
A women with a track record of deceit
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I'm happy to discuss a subject change as soon as what you clam is null and void.
Show me evidence bamber and June did not converse
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8345.msg397384.html#msg397384
Reply 1.
Bamber agreed when testifying.
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Evidence bamber burnt the caravan shop please
Believe he stole from the site with the key prosecution witness against him in a murder trial.
A women with a track record of deceit
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11342.msg524987.html#msg524987
Very likely Bamber burnt down the caravan shop.
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11342.msg524987.html#msg524987
Very likely Bamber burnt down the caravan shop.
Show me evidence of bamber burning down the caravan shop please
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Show me evidence of bamber burning down the caravan shop please
The police didn't catch him with a can of petrol.
Read the thread. Very likely Bamber burnt down the caravan shop. This escalated to robbing from & then killing his family.
Bamber even spoke about burning down WHF.
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The police didn't catch him with a can of petrol.
Read the thread. Very likely Bamber burnt down the caravan shop. This escalated to robbing from & then killing his family.
Bamber even spoke about burning down WHF.
For clarification
No evidence bamber burnt down the caravan shop. He was never convicted of arson. Case closed
Reference Mary mugford and the June scenario. No doubt they had differences. Disbelieve they were completley mute with one another. Believe bamber and shelia both disliked June. Emani stating Shelia " intensely disliked June but shelia still spoke to June
As did jeremy
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The police didn't catch him with a can of petrol.
Read the thread. Very likely Bamber burnt down the caravan shop. This escalated to robbing from & then killing his family.
Bamber even spoke about burning down WHF.
Show me evidence Bamber spoke about burning down whf please
Apart from " evidence " from a a chequebook fraudster from Colchester
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For clarification
No evidence bamber burnt down the caravan shop. He was never convicted of arson. Case closed
Reference Mary mugford and the June scenario. No doubt they had differences. Disbelieve they were completley mute with one another. Believe bamber and shelia both disliked June. Emani stating Shelia " intensely disliked June but shelia still spoke to June
As did jeremy
Ok we both agree the bike arrived at Bamber's cottage a few days before the massacre. Matching Julie's WS that he planned to do a trial run.
You believe Bamber asked June if he could take the bike. So Julie can cycle 3 miles to catch a bus.
I believe he stole it.
One thing is for sure. Bamber didn't walk or jog to/from WHF.
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Ok we both agree the bike arrived at Bamber's cottage a few days before the massacre. Matching Julie's WS that he planned to do a trial run.
You believe Bamber asked June if he could take the bike. So Julie can cycle 3 miles to catch a bus.
I believe he stole it.
One thing is for sure. Bamber didn't walk or jog to/from WHF.
June had a driving licence. June had a carJ une could drive
Believe on the day of the massacre June drove Shelia Daniel and Nicholas into town to buy jeans.
You are really clutching at straws now
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Show me evidence Bamber spoke about burning down whf please
Apart from " evidence " from a a chequebook fraudster from Colchester
Charles Marsden WS.
Julie's WS.
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Was Charles at Chelmsford crown court in 1986?
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June had a driving licence. June had a carJ une could drive
Believe on the day of the massacre June drove Shelia Daniel and Nicholas into town to buy jeans.
You are really clutching at straws now
That is nice.
Source please.
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Carole ann Lee
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Carole ann Lee
Snow66! Can you quote the extract please.
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Not that it matters. It has been known for people to have a car & a bike.
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Snow66! Can you quote the extract please.
No problem Adam,can it wait till tomorrow,I am off to bed.Good night all!
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Thanks.
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Chapter 2 page 154 Carole ann lee. The murders at whf
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Chapter 2 page 154 Carole ann lee. The murders at whf
Awaiting Snow66!'s extract.
June driving the grandchildren earlier in the day to buy jeans. Your point is?
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It's been confirmed that the bike was brought to Bamber's cottage days before he committed the massacre.
My view is it was stolen by Bamber. Multiple sources say he had no relationship with June.
ILB believes Bamber requested the bike. So Julie could cycle 3 miles with her suitcase instead of getting a cab or a lift from Bamber.
Either way, walking or driving to & from WHF was not an option. Due to either time constraints or risks of being seen & heard.
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Rob suggested Bamber could have jogged to/from WHF.
Obviously he was not serious.
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It's been confirmed that the bike was brought to Bamber's cottage days before he committed the massacre.
My view is it was stolen by Bamber. Multiple sources say he had no relationship with June.
ILB believes Bamber requested the bike. So Julie could cycle 3 miles with her suitcase instead of getting a cab or a lift from Bamber.
Either way, walking or driving to & from WHF was not an option. Due to either time constraints or risks of being seen & heard.
Believe he requested for Julie.
Don't see why Julie would have a suitcase. She spent odd days and times with bamber. Bamber also had a car
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Believe he requested for Julie.
Don't see why Julie would have a suitcase. She spent odd days and times with bamber. Bamber also had a car
Yes June, Bamber & probably Nevill had cars.
Yes Julie says 'I had not asked for a bike but may have suggested it might be a good idea the previous summer'.
Have you not had a girlfriend stay over for 2 days or more before? They take over the place with their stuff.
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Anyway it's been confirmed -
Bamber could not drive, walk or jog to/from WHF. Due to either noise, time constraints, tiredness or a combination of these.
The bike arrived at Bamber's cottage a few days before the massacre.
Interesting.
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Anyway it's been confirmed -
Bamber could not drive, walk or jog to/from WHF. Due to either noise, time constraints, tiredness or a combination of these.
The bike arrived at Bamber's cottage a few days before the massacre.
Interesting.
Was it ever confirmed in the interview the timescale start.
Believe bamber who was under interrogation. May have thought that the police meant how long had had the bike before the massacre. Not at that date.
Things can get skewed
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Was it ever confirmed in the interview the timescale start.
Believe bamber who was under interrogation. May have thought that the police meant how long had had the bike before the massacre. Not at that date.
Things can get skewed
Both guilters & supporters have to accept things.
I accept that you believe Bamber asked June if he could use her bike. So Julie could cycle 3 miles when going home.
You must accept that the bike arrived at 9, Head Street a few days before the massacre.
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From Carol Ann Lee's 'The murders at White House Farm'---Painting the exterior walls at Vaulty that afternoon,Michael Horsnell noticed that all wasn't well.At quarter past three he recognized June's silver Renault as it turned in at the drive.-----Is that what you want Adam? Confirmation that June had a car?
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From Carol Ann Lee's 'The murders at White House Farm'---Painting the exterior walls at Vaulty that afternoon,Michael Horsnell noticed that all wasn't well.At quarter past three he recognized June's silver Renault as it turned in at the drive.-----Is that what you want Adam? Confirmation that June had a car?
It's alright I know June had a car. Mary Mugford said so in her court testimony.
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It's alright I know June had a car. Mary Mugford said so in her court testimony.
No problem.
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Both guilters & supporters have to accept things.
I accept that you believe Bamber asked June if he could use her bike. So Julie could cycle 3 miles when going home.
You must accept that the bike arrived at 9, Head Street a few days before the massacre.
In fairness you don't know from the transcripts if he said to bamber " how long has, or how long had"
Bamber could have perceived it to be from August 7th before
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Both guilters & supporters have to accept things.
I accept that you believe Bamber asked June if he could use her bike. So Julie could cycle 3 miles when going home.
You must accept that the bike arrived at 9, Head Street a few days before the massacre.
Don't put words in my mouth.
You know he could have borrowed it for her for a variety of reasons when she came to visit him.
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Don't put words in my mouth.
You know he could have borrowed it for her for a variety of reasons when she came to visit him.
The CT reason is so Julie could cycle 3 miles when going home. With her suitcase.
Bamber, June, Nevill & cab offices were otherwise engaged.
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Don't put words in my mouth.
You know he could have borrowed it for her for a variety of reasons when she came to visit him.
What reasons?
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What reasons?
The primary one being while she would be at bourtree cottage while bamber would be at work.
She was a student. She was 21. She could have used the bike for shopping reasons visiting people in Colchester. Anything that fancies to occupy a 21 year old womans time while her partner is working.
It is cheaper than a bus, cheaper than taxis
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To my knowledge mugford didn't at the time have a driving licence or access to a car. And relied on bamber when she was visiting him with him working it's not nonsensical that he got the bike for that purpose.
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Bamber worked long hours at whf. Doubtful nevill have gave him time off because of his girlfriend visiting him. Nevill was the gaffer
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Furthermore the relationship between June and mugford was frosty with the former referring to her as a " harlot" very doubtful she hung around WHF while bamber was working
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The primary one being while she would be at bourtree cottage while bamber would be at work.
She was a student. She was 21. She could have used the bike for shopping reasons visiting people in Colchester. Anything that fancies to occupy a 21 year old womans time while her partner is working.
It is cheaper than a bus, cheaper than taxis
Ok so Julie either visited Bamber for a couple of days when he was working.
Or Julie visited Bamber for a week or more Some of those days he would be working.
Either way Julie would be cycling around Goldhanger on her own.
The CT only gave one reason why the bike was there - so Julie could cycle 3 miles to get a bus.
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If Julie stayed at Bambers for a week or more, she would not be able to cycle the 3 miles. Too much luggage.
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Anyway Bamber is very unlucky he brought June's bike to his cottage days before the massacre.
And the prosecution were very lucky.
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Believe bamber said his mother did not get along with the bike.
In reality how much do you think June missed the bicycle. Probablt more than happy to just give away the bike to bamber
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Ok so Julie either visited Bamber for a couple of days when he was working.
Or Julie visited Bamber for a week or more Some of those days he would be working.
Either way Julie would be cycling around Goldhanger on her own.
The CT only gave one reason why the bike was there - so Julie could cycle 3 miles to get a bus.
You know bamber worked many hours.
Don't believe Julie's statements reference the times she came to bourtree cottage.
Strongly believe any free time she had. And students have many. She would spend her time with bamber. This more than likely took place in goldhanger than south east London due to Bambers job. Although bamber did visit in the week.
Believe there is a source that bamber himself owned a bicycle himself with is not unusual. I own one myself. Very rarely use it.
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You know bamber worked many hours.
Don't believe Julie's statements reference the times she came to bourtree cottage.
Strongly believe any free time she had. And students have many. She would spend her time with bamber. This more than likely took place in goldhanger than south east London due to Bambers job. Although bamber did visit in the week.
Believe there is a source that bamber himself owned a bicycle himself with is not unusual. I own one myself. Very rarely use it.
Don't lie.
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Wonder if the bike is the same bike Barbara Wilson said Bamber used to cycle & taunt June on at WHF?
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Don't lie.
It's on lambertons forum
Personally I don't see the big fuss. Would it be so unusual for a bloke in his early twenties not to own a bicycle?
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Wonder if the bike is the same bike Barbara Wilson said Bamber used to cycle & taunt June on at WHF?
Why was Mr bamber senior uncharacteristically abrupt and rude with Mrs Wilson in the phone call ?
What do you think she was interupting?
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It's on lambertons forum
Personally I don't see the big fuss. Would it be so unusual for a bloke in his early twenties not to own a bicycle?
The prosecution case is he stole June's bike just before the massacre & cycled on that.
That would not be their case if he had his own bike.
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The prosecution case is he stole June's bike just before the massacre & cycled on that.
That would not be their case if he had his own bike.
They know he admitted to the osea break in.
The kayfabe theft of June's bicycle was used as a character assassination of Bamber. As much as it was a prosecution narrative.
You know this
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They know he admitted to the osea break in.
The kayfabe theft of June's bicycle was used as a character assassination of Bamber. As much as it was a prosecution narrative.
You know this
Anyway Bamber certainly did not have his own bike.
He had a car.
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Anyway Bamber certainly did not have his own bike.
He had a car.
I believe he had both.
Still not one person on this planet can place him making that murderous journey to WHF in the early hours of August 7th 1985.
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What do you think Mrs Wilson interupted?
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I believe he had both.
Still not one person on this planet can place him making that murderous journey to WHF in the early hours of August 7th 1985.
So why is the prosecution case he stole June's bike & used it?
Julie, Bamber or AE would have said he had his own bike.
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What do you think Mrs Wilson interupted?
Certainly nothing to do with Sheila.
She was like a zombie at supper & on the phone.
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Certainly nothing to do with Sheila.
She was like a zombie at supper & on the phone.
Angry at Jeremy then?
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Angry at Jeremy then?
Doubtful. He was just on a final reconnaissance & would not interested in anything else.
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So why is the prosecution case he stole June's bike & used it?
Julie, Bamber or AE would have said he had his own bike.
I answered this is reply 152.
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Doubtful. He was just on a final reconnaissance & would not interested in anything else.
Believe Wilson had worked for bamber senior for many years. Saw him on a daily basis. She has throughout author research, court testimony, television documentaries stated that nevill bamber was a pleasant person and boss.
Even apologising for smoking in his own office.
States Mr bamber was always polite. Her phone call to him was probably regular
She states he was rude and uncharacteristically abrupt. Her own words she felt like she hadv" interupted an argument "
Something had happened
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Mr bamber senior answered the phone
Obviously work duties had ceased
This was a family issue. Regarding his abruptness
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I answered this is reply 152.
You didn't.
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Mr bamber senior answered the phone
Obviously work duties had ceased
This was a family issue. Regarding his abruptness
Work duties hadn't finished. There was still the last harvest.
Bamber said there were no issues when he was there. Sheila was non responsive at supper & only gave one word answers on the phone until June took the phone back.
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I answered this is reply 152.
I did
The theft of his mother's bicycle and referencing his mother's bicycle soughts to add a bad character reference to himself.
Don't believe AE would notice his own bicycle. Bamber may well have kept it at WHF.
Can't speak for Julie's agenda
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Work duties hadn't finished. There was still the last harvest.
Bamber said there were no issues when he was there. Sheila was non responsive at supper & only gave one word answers on the phone until June took the phone back.
If work duties had not finished how did mr bamber answer the phone.
He would have been in the field still or unreachable.
Barbara Wilson phoned the home address number at 9.30 August 6th 1985. 9.30pm. by her own violition she spoke to Mr bamber senior
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If work duties had not finished how did mr bamber answer the phone.
He would have been in the field still or unreachable.
Barbara Wilson phoned the home address number at 9.30 August 6th 1985. 9.30pm. by her own violition she spoke to Mr bamber senior
Because he was at WHF.
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Because he was at WHF.
He was and he answered the phone promptly. Barbara Wilson stated she spoke to nevill bamber. Not an intermediary in the process
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Bambers initial 8.8.85 witness statement ties into the time he left at around 9.30 with Wilson's call
There is no reason to dispute this
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Reason being that even if guilty he has no reason to lie about it. The record shows he spoke to mugford at 10pm approx that night at his home address in goldhanger.
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He was and he answered the phone promptly. Barbara Wilson stated she spoke to nevill bamber. Not an intermediary in the process
You are not going anywhere again.
Nevill was abrupt. It wasn't anything to do with Sheila as she was like a zombie.
It wasn't anything to do with Bamber. He was just there for reconnaissance.
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You are not going anywhere again.
Nevill was abrupt. It wasn't anything to do with Sheila as she was like a zombie.
It wasn't anything to do with Bamber. He was just there for reconnaissance.
I'm not attempting to go anywhere I don't have to.
A family matter was kicking off though.
You know this
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Nevill bamber didn't finish work till most nights till well after 10pm.
9.30pm the night before. He himself answered a phonecall
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You are not going anywhere again.
Nevill was abrupt. It wasn't anything to do with Sheila as she was like a zombie.
It wasn't anything to do with Bamber. He was just there for reconnaissance.
Was nevill angry at the children? Who would have been in bed.
The farm workers. Unlikely he was in the house ?
The core family unit is the most likely scenario isn't it
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Barbara states nevill was "uncharacteristically rude and abrupt " she got the impression she had " come between an argument taking place "
What happened that night ?
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Believe Wilson had worked for bamber senior for many years. Saw him on a daily basis. She has throughout author research, court testimony, television documentaries stated that nevill bamber was a pleasant person and boss.
Even apologising for smoking in his own office.
States Mr bamber was always polite. Her phone call to him was probably regular
She states he was rude and uncharacteristically abrupt. Her own words she felt like she hadv" interupted an argument "
Something had happened
Yes, and how could the instigator have been Sheila, when she was too tired to talk to Aunt Pam half an hour later?
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Yes, and how could the instigator have been Sheila, when she was too tired to talk to Aunt Pam half an hour later?
Where have I insinuated it was specifically Shelia?
I am just asking for opinions
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Yes, and how could the instigator have been Sheila, when she was too tired to talk to Aunt Pam half an hour later?
Or was sulking after the row when she spoke to Pam Steve.
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In any event something unusual had occured.
I believe Barbara Wilson to be credible in this instance. She knew nevill bamber as good as anyone.
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Or was sulking after the row when she spoke to Pam Steve.
That's possible. But she did at least make a few utterances, with no obscenities, so I would have thought unlikely.
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Barbara states nevill was "uncharacteristically rude and abrupt " she got the impression she had " come between an argument taking place "
What happened that night ?
An episode can come on over several days for a person with schizophrenia, Sheila never spoke once on the drive down to WHF, to me this is quite telling and a warning of what was to come.
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An episode can come on over several days for a person with schizophrenia, Sheila never spoke once on the drive down to WHF, to me this is quite telling and a warning of what was to come.
Agree with what you say
Can't ascertain for certain what had happened. But for Wilson to state she found her boss " abrupt and rude and unfriendly " which was not his normal manner can't be a mere coincidence can it? It has to be related to what happened
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Agree with what you say
Can't ascertain for certain what had happened. But for Wilson to state she found her boss " abrupt and rude and unfriendly " which was not his normal manner can't be a mere coincidence can it? It has to be related to what happened
Yes and no. I don't see how Sheila could have been argumentative at that point and uncommunicative with Aunt Pamela half an hour later. However if Jeremy refused to collect the last trailer of oil seed rape that would make sense.
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Why 2 hours Adam? a person can walk approx. 3 miles an hour faster if jogging.
Stop telling porkies to pretend JB cycling is the only option, though we all know why you persist with this.
Quoted to cover myself.
ILB amended his original post yesterday after I created the 'Bamber not leaving WHF' thread. Then was abusive towards me.
Luckily I had quoted his original post.