Here we go.
Local knowledge, right up my street, what you wanna know?
How about these three for a start.
Can you tell us about an alternative route that would lead to JJ being at or near the 'V'?
Do you know how easy it was to traverse the 'v' in 2003. Was it similar to its current state as shown in the video referenced?
Do you know where the blood that was found on the 'v' was located and what form did it take?
What caused the V in the wall?
My guess would be tree damage from a storm. The tree or one of its branches started things IMO. Later kids climbing over or walkers hopping over for a pee (or a wank) etc. Slowly over time it became more pronounced as erosion from these and the weather took its toll.
It seems convenient that this small gap, compared with the length and height of the wall, was near to where Jodie was found. The gap isn't going to show on even the most detailed map. I think I'm beginning to see why the police and others believe the perp to be familiar with the area. Its not impossible but highly unlikely some random person unfamiliar with the area was hanging around the V and pounced on Jodie. The police said there was no evidence she was forced off the path to the other side of the wall but given the way they handled the soc what would they expect to find? Afaik no footprints were taken and if they didn't cover Jodie's body, highly unlikely they covered the V and foilage to check for fibres which might have shed if a scuffle ensued around the V.
It was established at trial that John Ferris was a drug dealer and that his moped was seen in the vicinity around the time Jodie was murdered. His behaviour post murder was very suspicious: he didn't come forward for 5 days until the police appeal; cut his own hair; changed his plans for the evening of 30th June. It was put to him at trial that his personality had changed. He has since moved to Ayrshire and no longer welcomed by Jodie's family.
Assuming he only had previous for dealing cannabis it seems unlikely he would murder his cousin in such a violent way? But did he use this V in the wall as a location for dealing or even hiding cannabis and/or other drugs? If so did he complete a deal just prior to Jodie's death in the location, either buying or selling, but was reluctant to supply police with the identify of the buyers/sellers for fear of reprisal?
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/DID+YOU+MURDER+JODI%3F+QC%27s+challenge+to+her+cousin+at+High+Court.-a0125208334
I share this view somewhat. The break with the family could have been down to the fact that he was supplying JJ with cannabis directly or through Luke. They may have felt that this contributed in some way to her murder by mixing with 'Bad' people..
I think he panicked and as you surmise he was worried about repercussions from the big fish in the dealing family tree, who would be concerned that their network could be discovered or disrupted.
The 'V' could have been a drop site such as those used by cold war spies.
If this is the 'V' in the wall its difficult to see how Jodie ended up the other side if not of her own free will? I had it in my mind that it allowed easy access but that doesn't appear to be the case. Was she definitely on the footpath? Could she have taken a different route and been on her way to Newbattle, or wherever, on the other side?
You are forgetting that the perp may have known the area well. They could have visited friends and family who lived in the general area or even Edinburgh itself. It could have been a holiday spot visited on a regular basis over a number of years/months. They could have lived in the area for a period before moving on.
It may have been earmarked as a potential site. 'Don't shit on your own doorstep' comes to mind.
Yes several routes can get you to the V without going on the Roan path. A break in the wall/clear opening at the crossroads with lady path leading though to Talbot Park(the pasture), aprox 50 yards up from the entrance to the path from the Easthouses end. This is the likely route Luke and Jodi took, then towards the V.
You could also continue north along lady path as it meanders about Talbot Park, towards the abbey/Lord Ancrum wood. Then cross Talbot Park towards the V. Highly unlikely route.
You can also gain access from the Newbattle side, without going on roan path. A dirt road that leads into Talbot Park and to a ruin building, just farther up is the V. I suspect this is the way Luke took to get back to Newbattle road after he murdered Jodi, before he was seen beside the fence at the opposite side of the road.
Very little change from the V today as it was then, If any, i would say it is more worn down these days, but there are pictures on google shown the V in the few years after the crime. 6 foot + wall, I find it hard to believe dragging a limp body, even one as small as Jodi over that gap in the wall, to be an easy task, without ripping clothes, leaving scratches on the body, scuff marks on shoes, trail marks. It would be a even harder task trying to get a struggling/screaming/scratching teenage girl over the wall. But there is absolutely no signs of any struggle at the V, nor the roan side or the Talbot side.
I need a factual source for the blood on the wall at the V.
Thanks for that. I have some follow ups but this one is important. Given your selection for LM's route post murder, when did he change his clothes. Given the pathologists view it would be almost impossible to do the crime and not suffer blood contamination on person or clothing?
Above in the post by Zoso are the posts from the original thread which for some reason is no longer visible.Many thanks to the moderator and Zoso for sorting the technical problem.
As i said above, Carol Heatlie was drawn initialliy to this boy’s strange behaviour, so much so that she slowed down in her car to get a closer look at him and see exactly what he was up to. As she slowed down, he turned away and tried to retreat back out of sight. More evidence as to why suspicion fell upon LM. She also said that the boy she saw that day was ‘very, very similar’ to the boy in the Sky tv interview. Very telling, imo.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Driver+saw+%27youth+like+Mitchell%27+Jury+told+of+sighting.-a0125696841
OMG, I forgot about Heatlie. Thanks for bringing her up, they really do not like talking about her statements. Just like they don't talk about LK testimony either. It's like pretending these 2 key witnesses don't exist. But hey, Lean was never at the trial in the first place. Even tried to deny AO ever took the stand.
There are a lot of people who have came out of the woodwork since the airing of the C5 documentary
last year, myself included. Bizarrely, a lot of these people have since protested in hordes, on the strength of said documentary alone, that Luke must be innocent. As you say, SL wasn’t even at the original trial, and her book, while being well-researched and written, is based on a lot of misinformation and half-truths, and a lot of whatabouttery and what-ifs. For example, in one chapter, she harps on about phone calls and texts between the Jones family and the Walker family ... all it amounts to is waffle. And, contrary to what a lot of people think, SL does not have access to everything from the case. Far from it. Does anyone know if SL had access to all of the prosecution’s case files and witness statements? I also believe that initially Sandra herself thought Luke to be guilty? I wonder what made her change her mind?
Yes, the evidence against Luke was very compelling and robust. It’s no surprise at all he was convicted. Yes, AO testified at court ... the police had tracked his movements from work that day, and, like Corinne, had used cctv footage to accurately trace his times and journey on the way home from his work. There was nothing sinister in the actions of the Jones family at all throughout the enquiry — I’m not so sure the same can be said about Mitchell family.
Above in the post by Zoso are the posts from the original thread which for some reason is no longer visible.
What was Luke doing between 6:15/7:30 before he met the boys in the Abbey?
I have wondered about this many times, myself. Not one sighting of him between this window at all. The last person to see him before he met up with friends David High & co at the abbey was one of the bicycle trio, who had to turn back as he had a puncture. The trio saw LM sitting at a wall on the nbattle rd at the entrance to his estate at around 1800/1805 as the were travelling north to college and positively identified him at court (they knew LM personally and said he was wearing a green bomber jacket and black baggy jeans). As I said, one of the trio had to turn back as the had a puncture and he said that LM was still sitting at the wall, at 1815/1820. LM disappeared from 1815/1820 until 1930, where he met boys at the abbey and they had a kick-about, played on a rope swing and smoked some joints away from prying eyes. It should be noted that LM phoned David High a couple of times, to hurry him up. Very telling & incriminating behaviour, imo. He hurried DH up as he needed to be seen with other people as part of his alibi, to deflect away from Jodi’s absence and the fact she was dead and he knew this; by hurrying DH up he was showing panic, desperation and, ultimately, his guilt. Why not phone the Jones landline again, as he had done at 1738? Allan Ovens told him that Jodi had left to specifically meet him. Since dating in March ‘03 they had spent most evenings together and it was testified in court that Jodi had only failed to meet LM once in all the time they were dating, and even then she phoned LM to explain why at the time. DH and the boys also were surprised that night the fact that Luke wasn’t with Jodi like he normally was, and when they asked where she was, LM answered: “She won’t be coming out tonight.” Very strange answer, considering that they had arranged to meet via texts earlier (between 1634-1638) and plus he was told 2 hours previously by Jodi’s step-dad AO that she was on her way to specifically meet him. So, no inclination from LM to contact Jodi at all after that 1738 call to AO, instead he chose to dilly-dally up and down the n’battle rd, according to him, between 1730-1930, instead of actually going to meet her at Easthouses or her house like he normally did? A young lad pacing up and down a busy road for 2 hours?? It doesn’t make sense, does it? And, I’ll reiterate, the boys from the abbey testified in court how he appeared less unkempt and less scruffy that evening. He also left them a lot earlier that night, at 2100, and went home. Why go home at such an early time? My guess is so he could get organised and prepared for the inevitable phone call from Judith asking where her daughter was. Preplanning and rehearsing what he was going to say to her. This would require privacy — he certainly wouldn’t want anyone around when that call from Judith came through. Luke said he was at home watching dvds in his room from the back of 9pm until 2230, and yet neighbour Mr Ramage said he saw him going home at 2200 as he settled down to watch the evening news. More lies from LM? Where had he been? Where was he coming from? The time of 2200 hrs is significant here as this was time Jodi was allowed out to, so it ties in with LM being prepared and ready for that inevitable phone call from Judith, wondering where her daughter was. I think it’s significant to mention here that LM had completely wiped his phone’s history out at just after midnight on 01.07.03 (all text messages and call logs), either when he was in the back of the police car or in Dalkeith Police Station (cite provided below). Why? For his phone likely held incriminating evidence, such as the text exchanges between he and Jodi at 1634-1638 that no doubt had details of their arranged meet-up at Easthouses at 1700. I certainly don’t think it was coincidental his phone history was wiped out.
What LM was doing between 1815 and 1930 that day is anyone’s guess. My view is that he used this time to dispose of the clothing that he was wearing when he was with Jodi earlier between 1655-1740. He had, imo, changed clothes between 1740-1800 and was quickly back in that nbattle rd in an attempt to nullify the AB & F&W sightings, him knowing that people saw him in the parka and that those sightings could potentially be his undoing. It’s very possible he went back to his house to either arrange what to do with the clothing he had on earlier or to find out how SM & CM were doing with the burning of the clothes that they might have had secretely discussed earlier when LM first went home at 1750/1755. Strange that neighbours reported a fire burning in the Mitchells’ garden at 1830 and then again at around 2200 (interestingly, CM denied that the log burner had been lit that evening, only to be refuted by Luke himself).
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12406880.phone-record-of-jodi-murder-accused-wiped/