Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on January 18, 2022, 01:32:PM
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He could call his AM from WHF. As discussed in other recent threads.
Cycle straight back & call the police straight away. Before changing, cleaning up etc. This is Bamber's 15 minute gap - 'around 3.10am - 3.26am.
Chelmsford Police is over 20 miles away. Police cars despatched from there would take longer to arrive at WHF. This gives him the time to change/clean up etc. Before arriving after the police.
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As it happened the police cars were despatched from Witham. Which is closer but still over 11 miles from WHF.
This still gives him some changing/cleaning time.
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If he calls the police from his cottage after getting changed/washed etc, the gap between calls becomes 20-30 minutes. Which is becoming more implausible.
Ringing them as soon as he arrives back, will still give him time to change/clean. Providing the police cars are despatched from a long way away.
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If he calls the police from his cottage after getting changed/washed etc, the gap between calls becomes 20-30 minutes. Which is becoming more implausible.
Ringing them as soon as he arrives back, will still give him time to change/clean. Providing the police cars are despatched from a long way away.
This is even more important as he asked the police to pick him up.
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How did JB enter and exit WHF without a trace ?
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How did JB enter and exit WHF without a trace ?
Same as he'd done it previously?
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Same as he'd done it previously?
Same answer as t'other thread---no trace of an entry/ exit.
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Same answer as t'other thread---no trace of an entry/ exit.
Thought it was the same question :)) Seriously, if he'd had several years of practice, he'd have had it down to a fine art.
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Thought it was the same question :)) Seriously, if he'd had several years of practice, he'd have had it down to a fine art.
Not just him as others used to gain entry the same way.
It would have appeared that JB got blamed at trial for making a forced entry---without any proof that there'd been a supposed forced entry as no photographs were produced by Barlow to the defence of any damage that might have occurred.
You'd have thought Barlow would have leapt up out of his seat if there'd have been anything to show ?
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Not just him as others used to gain entry the same way.
It would have appeared that JB got blamed at trial for making a forced entry---without any proof that there'd been a supposed forced entry as no photographs were produced by Barlow to the defence of any damage that might have occurred.
You'd have thought Barlow would have leapt up out of his seat if there'd have been anything to show ?
Why would entry need to have been forced? Quite possible, having done it often enough, he'd very probably worked out how to do it without needing force.
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Why would entry need to have been forced? Quite possible, having done it often enough, he'd very probably worked out how to do it without needing force.
Fiddling around in the dark with a piece of hacksaw would have caused visible damage I'd have thought.
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I rather think that soil beneath the window was inspected for footprints and a sample taken.
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Lookout keeps asking the same question.
She is either on a diversion tactic or is becoming forgetful about the 27 year old police interviews.
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Fiddling around in the dark with a piece of hacksaw would have caused visible damage I'd have thought.
Perhaps he had no need? Perhaps he'd found reason to tap on the window, before he went in for supper, getting someone to open it to see what he wanted? Okay, a bit of a longshot, that one, BUT we know it wasn't the first time he'd done it, don't we? Did they check for footprints within hours of discovering the bodies? Why would they? They believed it to have been murder suicide. Why would Sheila have got in/out of the window. It was a week or two before a thorough search was made. Any footprints -if he hadn't erased them at the time- would have been long gone.
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Anyway it seems likely Bamber -
Rang his AM from WHF.
Cycled straight back to his cottage.
Rang Chelmsford Police straight away. Jointly because he felt cars despatched from Chelmsford gave him time to get changed/washed & gave him more chance of being picked up from his cottage.
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This is a perfect example of creating a strawman by isolating an aspect of the case away from context.
Bamber admits he can get in, he's done it often.
Proving how he got in or out becomes irrelevant if the jury accept that a bloodflake matching Sheila's exact enzymes and proteins was found inside the silencer. She couldn't have put that back after shooting herself.
Or if the jury accept some or part of JM's evidence.
Or if the jury decide that the evidence suggests Sheila couldn't be responsible.
etc.
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He wouldn't know whether a patrol car might have been seconds away.
In terms of AM he wouldn't have the expertise to appreciate whether or not a call going into AM leaves the same audit trail at the exchange that lifting and replacing the receiver does.
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Adam, you mention JB may have phoned his house from the farm,then rushed home to phone the police.But lets just think about what he would have to achieve on 6-7th Aug if he was the killer.He had done a long days work harvesting on the farm,heads off home about 10.00 ,undoubtably gets no sleep sets off on the bike ,probably sometime after 12.00 .Bikes over various terrain for about three miles,climbs in a window.charges through the house ,wiping out his family,Fighting with Neville ,and as if he wasnt sweating enough,stands at the aga heating the end of the rifle.Apparantly he has to carry Sheila through to their parents bedroom and shoot her.He phones his own cottage,leaps out the kitchen window,slams it shut,then after all that ,jumps on the bike and races back to his house.And on a ladies bike mind you,not a fancy racing model.He gets back to his house about 15 minutes later we are told ,and enters his house without a sole seeing him,sweating like a pig,he rushes to the phone to call the police,not even out of breath.He changes out of the infamous wet suit or whatever he was wearing,throws them into the washing machine,He showers or at least dries off the sweat and uses tons of deodorant.Throws on some clean clothes and even has time to phone Julie before jumping in the jalopy and heading back to the farm to meat the police.He dosent appear to be in the least out of breath, and reasonably composed.Quite a feat,Even in my prime ,if i had carried out such an escapade,i am quite sure i would have been shattered,my face would have been bursting and as red as a beetroot,i would have been out of breath and probably shaking.The cops would have cottoned on to me right away.So we must conclude , if JB carried out the massacre he must have been as fit as an athlete, and had nerves of steel.Any comments.
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Adam, you mention JB may have phoned his house from the farm,then rushed home to phone the police.But lets just think about what he would have to achieve on 6-7th Aug if he was the killer.He had done a long days work harvesting on the farm,heads off home about 10.00 ,undoubtably gets no sleep sets off on the bike ,probably sometime after 12.00 .Bikes over various terrain for about three miles,climbs in a window.charges through the house ,wiping out his family,Fighting with Neville ,and as if he wasnt sweating enough,stands at the aga heating the end of the rifle.Apparantly he has to carry Sheila through to their parents bedroom and shoot her.He phones his own cottage,leaps out the kitchen window,slams it shut,then after all that ,jumps on the bike and races back to his house.And on a ladies bike mind you,not a fancy racing model.He gets back to his house about 15 minutes later we are told ,and enters his house without a sole seeing him,sweating like a pig,he rushes to the phone to call the police,not even out of breath.He changes out of the infamous wet suit or whatever he was wearing,throws them into the washing machine,He showers or at least dries off the sweat and uses tons of deodorant.Throws on some clean clothes and even has time to phone Julie before jumping in the jalopy and heading back to the farm to meat the police.He dosent appear to be in the least out of breath, and reasonably composed.Quite a feat,Even in my prime ,if i had carried out such an escapade,i am quite sure i would have been shattered,my face would have been bursting and as red as a beetroot,i would have been out of breath and probably shaking.The cops would have cottoned on to me right away.So we must conclude , if JB carried out the massacre he must have been as fit as an athlete, and had nerves of steel.Any comments.
Neither here or there. There was nearly half a million at stake.
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Adam, you mention JB may have phoned his house from the farm,then rushed home to phone the police.But lets just think about what he would have to achieve on 6-7th Aug if he was the killer.He had done a long days work harvesting on the farm,heads off home about 10.00 ,undoubtably gets no sleep sets off on the bike ,probably sometime after 12.00 .Bikes over various terrain for about three miles,climbs in a window.charges through the house ,wiping out his family,Fighting with Neville ,and as if he wasnt sweating enough,stands at the aga heating the end of the rifle.Apparantly he has to carry Sheila through to their parents bedroom and shoot her.He phones his own cottage,leaps out the kitchen window,slams it shut,then after all that ,jumps on the bike and races back to his house.And on a ladies bike mind you,not a fancy racing model.He gets back to his house about 15 minutes later we are told ,and enters his house without a sole seeing him,sweating like a pig,he rushes to the phone to call the police,not even out of breath.He changes out of the infamous wet suit or whatever he was wearing,throws them into the washing machine,He showers or at least dries off the sweat and uses tons of deodorant.Throws on some clean clothes and even has time to phone Julie before jumping in the jalopy and heading back to the farm to meat the police.He dosent appear to be in the least out of breath, and reasonably composed.Quite a feat,Even in my prime ,if i had carried out such an escapade,i am quite sure i would have been shattered,my face would have been bursting and as red as a beetroot,i would have been out of breath and probably shaking.The cops would have cottoned on to me right away.So we must conclude , if JB carried out the massacre he must have been as fit as an athlete, and had nerves of steel.Any comments.
You need to start including line gaps.
Anyway it seems you are just repeating your Bamber scenario.
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He wouldn't know whether a patrol car might have been seconds away.
In terms of AM he wouldn't have the expertise to appreciate whether or not a call going into AM leaves the same audit trail at the exchange that lifting and replacing the receiver does.
A Tuesday night in TD. He was prepared to take the chance.
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So your answer is Adam,his infinite greed and desire for money,gave him a limitless amount of stamina and asrenaline to carry him through even without any sleep.
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He wouldn't know whether a patrol car might have been seconds away.
In terms of AM he wouldn't have the expertise to appreciate whether or not a call going into AM leaves the same audit trail at the exchange that lifting and replacing the receiver does.
The call is answered. The caller can speak.
Again had no option but to take the chance. If he wasn't sure what BT/the police could obtain.
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That is supposed to be adrenaline not asrenaline,sorry.
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So your answer is Adam,his infinite greed and desire for money,gave him a limitless amount of stamina and asrenaline to carry him through even without any sleep.
Yes. He was a young fit guy. Consider all the people that are sleep deprived and have heavy and difficult workloads much of the time: soldiers/medics/airline pilots. It was a one-off for Bamber.
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Sorry Adam ,but i explained i do not have the expertise to edit any of my postsBut QC or yourself are welcome to edit any of my posts to your liking,any time you wish.
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Hi cutie,how are you doing today.So another post that fails to impress you or Adam eh.I will have to try harder,bye
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Ihave answered your 71 points of evidence by the COA on the If this forum formed a jury topic,any comments from cutie ,Jane or yourself Adam,would be appreciated.
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Hi cutie,how are you doing today.So another post that fails to impress you or Adam eh.I will have to try harder,bye
If you said black she'd say white. You wouldn't know where you were with her. I wouldn't try too hard at this juncture as little notice, if any is taken should you mention or hint innocent.
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Hi lookout ,hope your well.What do you mean i will be ignored arent ,Mike,Bill,Roch.Jackie,Rob,Nug Nug,Bubo Bubo going to back me up ,as well as yourself.Am i a man alone.Is it because i am undecided,or are my posts rubbish.
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Adam, you mention JB may have phoned his house from the farm,then rushed home to phone the police.But lets just think about what he would have to achieve on 6-7th Aug if he was the killer.He had done a long days work harvesting on the farm,heads off home about 10.00 ,undoubtably gets no sleep sets off on the bike ,probably sometime after 12.00 .Bikes over various terrain for about three miles,climbs in a window.charges through the house ,wiping out his family,Fighting with Neville ,and as if he wasnt sweating enough,stands at the aga heating the end of the rifle.Apparantly he has to carry Sheila through to their parents bedroom and shoot her.He phones his own cottage,leaps out the kitchen window,slams it shut,then after all that ,jumps on the bike and races back to his house.And on a ladies bike mind you,not a fancy racing model.He gets back to his house about 15 minutes later we are told ,and enters his house without a sole seeing him,sweating like a pig,he rushes to the phone to call the police,not even out of breath.He changes out of the infamous wet suit or whatever he was wearing,throws them into the washing machine,He showers or at least dries off the sweat and uses tons of deodorant.Throws on some clean clothes and even has time to phone Julie before jumping in the jalopy and heading back to the farm to meat the police.He dosent appear to be in the least out of breath, and reasonably composed.Quite a feat,Even in my prime ,if i had carried out such an escapade,i am quite sure i would have been shattered,my face would have been bursting and as red as a beetroot,i would have been out of breath and probably shaking.The cops would have cottoned on to me right away.So we must conclude , if JB carried out the massacre he must have been as fit as an athlete, and had nerves of steel.Any comments.
I'm sure you would have been all those thing you claim you'd have been, Snow. But this is about JB. I think his mind set and your own would have been very different. He'd have been pumped full of adrenalin and thoughts of the life he'd lead once he'd got his hands on the dosh.
Without knowing the time line, it's reasonable to think he'd have given himself time to ensure that he could clean up, calm down, and wasn't sporting a "beetroot red face" which was fit to burst when he met with police.
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Hi Jane ,how are you tonight.Well you must admit it was quite a feat to acomplish IF he carried it out.Any way ,as i have told Adam i have tried to answer the 71 points of evidence by the COA on the If the forum formed a jury thread by QC.Would you comment on my answers ,along with any other guilters.Otherwise you have little chance of converting me to the guilty stance.To be honest if that 71 points is among the best evidence against JB ,i dont think i will be changing my stance from reasonable doubt in the near future.Any way have a nice evening,bye for now.
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Hi Jane ,how are you tonight.Well you must admit it was quite a feat to acomplish IF he carried it out.Any way ,as i have told Adam i have tried to answer the 71 points of evidence by the COA on the If the forum formed a jury thread by QC.Would you comment on my answers ,along with any other guilters.Otherwise you have little chance of converting me to the guilty stance.To be honest if that 71 points is among the best evidence against JB ,i dont think i will be changing my stance from reasonable doubt in the near future.Any way have a nice evening,bye for now.
Indeed it was, Snow. A lot was resting on its success. A whole new life.
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Well to me its quite week evidence Jane.So,how about comments on my answers ,lets have your opinion please.
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Adam, you mention JB may have phoned his house from the farm,then rushed home to phone the police.But lets just think about what he would have to achieve on 6-7th Aug if he was the killer.He had done a long days work harvesting on the farm,heads off home about 10.00 ,undoubtably gets no sleep sets off on the bike ,probably sometime after 12.00 .Bikes over various terrain for about three miles,climbs in a window.charges through the house ,wiping out his family,Fighting with Neville ,and as if he wasnt sweating enough,stands at the aga heating the end of the rifle.Apparantly he has to carry Sheila through to their parents bedroom and shoot her.He phones his own cottage,leaps out the kitchen window,slams it shut,then after all that ,jumps on the bike and races back to his house.And on a ladies bike mind you,not a fancy racing model.He gets back to his house about 15 minutes later we are told ,and enters his house without a sole seeing him,sweating like a pig,he rushes to the phone to call the police,not even out of breath.He changes out of the infamous wet suit or whatever he was wearing,throws them into the washing machine,He showers or at least dries off the sweat and uses tons of deodorant.Throws on some clean clothes and even has time to phone Julie before jumping in the jalopy and heading back to the farm to meat the police.He dosent appear to be in the least out of breath, and reasonably composed.Quite a feat,Even in my prime ,if i had carried out such an escapade,i am quite sure i would have been shattered,my face would have been bursting and as red as a beetroot,i would have been out of breath and probably shaking.The cops would have cottoned on to me right away.So we must conclude , if JB carried out the massacre he must have been as fit as an athlete, and had nerves of steel.Any comments.
Nice post Snow, you show that what JB is supposed to have done is just not possible. If he used the AM he has an impossible time frame and if he just lied about Nevil calling he would not have created a gap of 15 or 20 minutes between the Nevil call and the call to the police.
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If Bamber was certain BT/the police could not track calls he would have said - 'I received a call from Nevill at 'around' 3.20am, I spent a couple of minutes looking for the number of Chelmsford Police & then rang them.
However he knew there was a 15 minute gap between the two calls. So the search for the number of Chelmsford Police took a much less likely 15 minutes.
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If Bamber was certain BT/the police could not track calls he would have said - 'I received a call from Nevill at 'around' 3.20am, I spent a couple of minutes looking for the number of Chelmsford Police & then rang them.
However he knew there was a 15 minute gap between the two calls. So the search for the number of Chelmsford Police took a much less likely 15 minutes.
Maybe that's exactly what happened?
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If Bamber was certain BT/the police could not track calls he would have said - 'I received a call from Nevill at 'around' 3.20am, I spent a couple of minutes looking for the number of Chelmsford Police & then rang them.
However he knew there was a 15 minute gap between the two calls. So the search for the number of Chelmsford Police took a much less likely 15 minutes.
Ok but then explain how in 15 minutes he gets from WHF changes etc. etc. etc. and back to WHF as if nothing has happened? Just include this period of time in your revised scenario so I can study it please. You are not doing a very good job of converting me!
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Ok but then explain how in 15 minutes he gets from WHF changes etc. etc. etc. and back to WHF as if nothing has happened? Just include this period of time in your revised scenario so I can study it please. You are not doing a very good job of converting me!
Did you not read my thread post?
He changes/cleans after ringing Chelmsford Police.
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JB's account of the call from Nevill could not be corroborated so it's not crucial to the case to consider whether he may have called Goldhanger from WHF at all.
The jury could have decided that JB was lying about Nevill's call and convicted him on that evidence alone.
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As I have stated I do believe this is damaging to Bamber. While I don't necessarily believe it was ultimatley down to sinister prospect from a gulity scenario. It is suspicious. The prosecution can rightly argue this.
It fits a gulity narrative of Bamber trying to get things together and buy himself time.
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JB's account of the call from Nevill could not be corroborated so it's not crucial to the case to consider whether he may have called Goldhanger from WHF at all.
The jury could have decided that JB was lying about Nevill's call and convicted him on that evidence alone.
Yes but if he is lying and knows the calls cannot be traced and the police cannot check if calls were even made why does he create the time delay and cast huge suspicion on himself?
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The most logical thing is to dial 999. The comment Bamber makes when prompted by police " you have to understand he isn't the type of person to get organisations involved" doesn't cut it when your family is at harm. It has to be said. 999 would have the been the first and immediate option. Purely my opinion
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The most logical thing is to dial 999. The comment Bamber makes when prompted by police " you have to understand he isn't the type of person to get organisations involved" doesn't cut it when your family is at harm. It has to be said. 999 would have the been the first and immediate option. Purely my opinion
But he is lying and faking everything so why did he not ring 999 he could have done?
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The most logical thing is to dial 999. The comment Bamber makes when prompted by police " you have to understand he isn't the type of person to get organisations involved" doesn't cut it when your family is at harm. It has to be said. 999 would have the been the first and immediate option. Purely my opinion
Surely you are not suggesting calling the sixth furthest away police station, over 20 miles away, is suspicious?
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But he is lying and faking everything so why did he not ring 999 he could have done?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11047.0.html
I have posted 3 reasons today why he calls Chelmsford police.
100/100 innocent people would call 999.
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Surely you are not suggesting calling the sixth furthest away police station, over 20 miles away, is suspicious?
I am stating that telephoning any District of Essex police number apart from 999 is suspicious. In the circumstances which were taking place.
Had Bamber had earlier dealings with Chelmsford? Where was Pc robin Saxby based? Bamber had no police record. I understand he had a road traffic accident pre WHF massacre. Purely specualting
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I am stating that telephoning any District of Essex police number apart from 999 is suspicious. In the circumstances which were taking place.
Had Bamber had earlier dealings with Chelmsford? Where was Pc robin Saxby based? Bamber had no police record. I understand he had a road traffic accident pre WHF massacre. Purely specualting
Why? What was the emergency?
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Why? What was the emergency?
Your father ringing you in the wee hours saying your sister who has mental health issues has gone crazy and has access to gun when children are present as well as your mum????
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Yes but if he is lying and knows the calls cannot be traced and the police cannot check if calls were even made why does he create the time delay and cast huge suspicion on himself?
This is a fair point but it's possible he never even thought of phone records until later, he doesn't create the time delay until he is arrested. He doesn't tell PC West he was faffing around for 10 or 15 minutes and in his WS on the 8th Aug he says he tried to call WHF a couple of times and then "immediately" called the police.
You can make allowances and say well, he really didn't know what to do and he was embarrassed to mention his dithering at first but for me, it's then what he does and doesn't say to Julie that really makes this all very suspicious. Why would you wake up your GF in the middle of the night and not tell her that Sheila had a gun? Even worse, why would you not tell her that you had called the police and had to go and meet them?
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Your father ringing you in the wee hours saying your sister who has mental health issues has gone crazy and has access to gun when children are present as well as your mum????
You see if you don't care about any of them then there's no emergency, is there..
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The most logical thing is to dial 999. The comment Bamber makes when prompted by police " you have to understand he isn't the type of person to get organisations involved" doesn't cut it when your family is at harm. It has to be said. 999 would have the been the first and immediate option. Purely my opinion
" you have to understand he isn't the type of person to get organisations involved" - Says a man getting an organization involved!
He was shown his own phone book in court. At the top of the page it said in great big letters, "In an emergency dial 999"!
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You see if you don't care about any of them then there's no emergency, is there..
He was probably scared rigid if the truth be known.
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This is a fair point but it's possible he never even thought of phone records until later, he doesn't create the time delay until he is arrested. He doesn't tell PC West he was faffing around for 10 or 15 minutes and in his WS on the 8th Aug he says he tried to call WHF a couple of times and then "immediately" called the police.
You can make allowances and say well, he really didn't know what to do and he was embarrassed to mention his dithering at first but for me, it's then what he does and doesn't say to Julie that really makes this all very suspicious. Why would you wake up your GF in the middle of the night and not tell her that Sheila had a gun? Even worse, why would you not tell her that you had called the police and had to go and meet them?
The Julie call does not make sense I agree, if she knew what he was and had been planning surely she would have broken down and cried her eyes out?
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The Julie call does not make sense I agree, if she knew what he was and had been planning surely she would have broken down and cried her eyes out?
Or froze to keep the emotion in.
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You see if you don't care about any of them then there's no emergency, is there..
Ooofh!
" Hello police? My mother in law rang me and said that she was being murdered by an intruder"
"How long ago was this sir?"
"Last Wednesday"
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Either way works -
He commited the massacre. Phoned no one from WHF. Cycled back. He is lucky BT/the police can't nail him with phone evidence.
He commits the massacre. Phones his AM. Cycles back. Phones Chelmsford police.
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Ooofh!
" Hello police? My mother in law rang me and said that she was being murdered by an intruder"
"How long ago was this sir?"
"Last Wednesday"
:)) :)) :))
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" you have to understand he isn't the type of person to get organisations involved" - Says a man getting an organization involved!
He was shown his own phone book in court. At the top of the page it said in great big letters, "In an emergency dial 999"!
it can be argued he was buying himself time if gulity.
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it can be argued he was buying himself time if gulity.
You may be certain it has been :)
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Either way works -
He commited the massacre. Phoned no one from WHF. Cycled back. He is lucky BT/the police can't nail him with phone evidence.
He commits the massacre. Phones his AM. Cycles back. Phones Chelmsford police.
Having an AM just makes it more certain Bamber felt confident after ringing Julie at 10pm.
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Either way works -
He commited the massacre. Phoned no one from WHF. Cycled back. He is lucky BT/the police can't nail him with phone evidence.
He commits the massacre. Phones his AM. Cycles back. Phones Chelmsford police.
he isn't lucky at all if gulity. He hasn't known a days freedom since September 29th of 1985
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The Julie call does not make sense I agree, if she knew what he was and had been planning surely she would have broken down and cried her eyes out?
Not if she was as ruthless as some people believe.
She may have been furious he called her at all in those circumstances.
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Or froze to keep the emotion in.
Perhaps you can help Adam out Jane he is really stuck with the 15 minutes JB had after ringing his AM and calling the police from his cottage?
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he isn't lucky at all if gulity. He hasn't known a days freedom since September 29th of 1985
Proof from BT/the police that there was no call from WHF & Bamber would not have made one appeal.
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Proof from BT/the police that there was no call from WHF & Bamber would not have made one appeal.
if they could have proved that a call was never made from Nevill we wouldn't be having the conversation we are having now. It would have been a slam dunk for the prosecution. It is more important than the silencer. Julie, relatives, comments from people, gut feelings, anything.
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Either way works -
He commited the massacre. Phoned no one from WHF. Cycled back. He is lucky BT/the police can't nail him with phone evidence.
He commits the massacre. Phones his AM. Cycles back. Phones Chelmsford police.
Oh good Adam we are getting somewhere so you have given up on the answer phone!
So what you are now saying is he just took and punt that the calls could not be traced?
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Oh good Adam we are getting somewhere so you have given up on the answer phone!
So what you are now saying is he just took and punt that the calls could not be traced?
Did you not read my post?
The second paragraph has him ringing his AM.
Stop making things up.
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if they could have proved that a call was never made from Nevill we wouldn't be having the conversation we are having now. It would have been a slam dunk for the prosecution. It is more important than the silencer. Julie, relatives, comments from people, gut feelings, anything.
Agree.
He was very lucky if he didn't phone his AM.
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Your father ringing you in the wee hours saying your sister who has mental health issues has gone crazy and has access to gun when children are present as well as your mum????
But the call was ambiguous. "Sheila's gone crazy, she's got a gun." Then it ended. Does it mean Sheila is on a murderous rampage or threatening as much? Or does it mean she's gone crazy and she's also got a gun? I think there's a distinction between the two, which is blunted or lost now only because we have the benefit of hindsight. Jeremy may also have thought that the call meant or implied that the police are already there and Nevill is letting Jeremy know. Or does it mean Nevill wants Jeremy to help rather than the police? Or does it mean Nevill has rung the police and has now also rung Jeremy?
Jeremy was in a situation where his father had rung him, and he did not know if his father had also rung the police or what exactly was going on. He tried to call his father back but could not do so, as the line was engaged, perhaps suggesting to Jeremy that the police were being called. It's not necessarily clear what was going on and Jeremy may have been unsure about what to do. To be fair, the police did ask Jeremy why he had not rung 999 and nowadays you would definitely expect someone to ring 999, but at the same time, the police were only expressing surprise about it after an explanation from Jeremy once he had clarified it all for himself in his own mind by giving Nevill's ambiguous call the worst possible interpretation, and only when they were all stood outside the farmhouse with no apparent sign of life.
Jeremy could, in the alternative, have said: "I've received an urgent call from my father. He says my sister has gone crazy and got a gun, but then the line went dead or he stopped talking. Has my father already called you? If not, I'm confused because I don't understand why he would call me instead of the police." Maybe 999 is the call he should have made to say this, but the situation was different then because people often had the number of their local police station and that was often used to ring the police.
Of course, another possibility is that Jeremy is innocent but was stalling intentionally in the hope that Sheila would kill the family. Maybe that was Jeremy's plan?
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You may be certain it has been :)
I think you know what I mean Jane
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it can be argued he was buying himself time if gulity.
Why does he need to buy time?
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But the call was ambiguous. "Sheila's gone crazy, she's got a gun." Then it ended. Does it mean Sheila is on a murderous rampage or threatening as much? Or does it mean she's gone crazy and she's also got a gun? I think there's a distinction between the two, which is blunted or lost now only because we have the benefit of hindsight. Jeremy may also have thought that the call meant or implied that the police are already there and Nevill is letting Jeremy know. Or does it mean Nevill wants Jeremy to help rather than the police? Or does it mean Nevill has rung the police and has now also rung Jeremy?
Jeremy was in a situation where his father had rung him, and he did not know if his father had also rung the police or what exactly was going on. He tried to call his father back but could not do so, as the line was engaged, perhaps suggesting to Jeremy that the police were being called. It's not necessarily clear what was going on and Jeremy may have been unsure about what to do. To be fair, the police did ask Jeremy why he had not rung 999 and nowadays you would definitely expect someone to ring 999, but at the same time, the police were only expressing surprise about it after an explanation from Jeremy once he had clarified it all for himself in his own mind by giving Nevill's ambiguous call the worst possible interpretation, and only when they were all stood outside the farmhouse with no apparent sign of life.
Jeremy could, in the alternative, have said: "I've received an urgent call from my father. He says my sister has gone crazy and got a gun, but then the line went dead or he stopped talking. Has my father already called you? If not, I'm confused because I don't understand why he would call me instead of the police." Maybe 999 is the call he should have made to say this, but the situation was different then because people often had the number of their local police station and that was often used to ring the police.
Of course, another possibility is that Jeremy is innocent but was stalling intentionally in the hope that Sheila would kill the family. Maybe that was Jeremy's plan?
But the number wasn't to hand was it, hence the delay.
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The Julie call does not make sense I agree, if she knew what he was and had been planning surely she would have broken down and cried her eyes out?
The contents of the Julie call still doesn’t make sense to me.
“Everything is going well, there’s something wrong at the farm”
If Julie knows what’s happening then the two sentences don’t fit together, if she has no idea then they still don’t fit in the manner they’ve been portrayed. I wonder if part of it is that the tone has been lost in the words being written down. (Also remembering that we’ve only got Julie’s word on exactly what was said)
Could the conversation have been more like:
Julie: “Jeremy, what’s the matter, are you ok?” (Assuming there’s a problem having got a call at 3.15am)
Jeremy: “everything’s going well” (i.e “don’t worry I’M fine”) but somethings wrong at the farm…
After this we only have Julie’s word that Sheila wasn’t mentioned, and she may not have been, alternatively she could have been mentioned and Jeremy was seeking comfort from her as he says.
The phone call could be reported almost word for word but it only takes a change in tone to change the whole meaning of that call.
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I think you know what I mean Jane
Jest. My apologies, ILB :-[
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But the call was ambiguous. "Sheila's gone crazy, she's got a gun." Then it ended. Does it mean Sheila is on a murderous rampage or threatening as much? Or does it mean she's gone crazy and she's also got a gun? I think there's a distinction between the two, which is blunted or lost now only because we have the benefit of hindsight. Jeremy may also have thought that the call meant or implied that the police are already there and Nevill is letting Jeremy know. Or does it mean Nevill wants Jeremy to help rather than the police? Or does it mean Nevill has rung the police and has now also rung Jeremy?
Jeremy was in a situation where his father had rung him, and he did not know if his father had also rung the police or what exactly was going on. He tried to call his father back but could not do so, as the line was engaged, perhaps suggesting to Jeremy that the police were being called. It's not necessarily clear what was going on and Jeremy may have been unsure about what to do. To be fair, the police did ask Jeremy why he had not rung 999 and nowadays you would definitely expect someone to ring 999, but at the same time, the police were only expressing surprise about it after an explanation from Jeremy once he had clarified it all for himself in his own mind by giving Nevill's ambiguous call the worst possible interpretation, and only when they were all stood outside the farmhouse with no apparent sign of life.
Jeremy could, in the alternative, have said: "I've received an urgent call from my father. He says my sister has gone crazy and got a gun, but then the line went dead or he stopped talking. Has my father already called you? If not, I'm confused because I don't understand why he would call me instead of the police." Maybe 999 is the call he should have made to say this, but the situation was different then because people often had the number of their local police station and that was often used to ring the police.
Of course, another possibility is that Jeremy is innocent but was stalling intentionally in the hope that Sheila would kill the family. Maybe that was Jeremy's plan?
Did they?
Chelmsford was not local.
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But the call was ambiguous. "Sheila's gone crazy, she's got a gun." Then it ended. Does it mean Sheila is on a murderous rampage or threatening as much? Or does it mean she's gone crazy and she's also got a gun? I think there's a distinction between the two, which is blunted or lost now only because we have the benefit of hindsight. Jeremy may also have thought that the call meant or implied that the police are already there and Nevill is letting Jeremy know. Or does it mean Nevill wants Jeremy to help rather than the police? Or does it mean Nevill has rung the police and has now also rung Jeremy?
Jeremy was in a situation where his father had rung him, and he did not know if his father had also rung the police or what exactly was going on. He tried to call his father back but could not do so, as the line was engaged, perhaps suggesting to Jeremy that the police were being called. It's not necessarily clear what was going on and Jeremy may have been unsure about what to do. To be fair, the police did ask Jeremy why he had not rung 999 and nowadays you would definitely expect someone to ring 999, but at the same time, the police were only expressing surprise about it after an explanation from Jeremy once he had clarified it all for himself in his own mind by giving Nevill's ambiguous call the worst possible interpretation, and only when they were all stood outside the farmhouse with no apparent sign of life.
Jeremy could, in the alternative, have said: "I've received an urgent call from my father. He says my sister has gone crazy and got a gun, but then the line went dead or he stopped talking. Has my father already called you? If not, I'm confused because I don't understand why he would call me instead of the police." Maybe 999 is the call he should have made to say this, but the situation was different then because people often had the number of their local police station and that was often used to ring the police.
Of course, another possibility is that Jeremy is innocent but was stalling intentionally in the hope that Sheila would kill the family. Maybe that was Jeremy's plan?
" Jeremy was stalling hoping Shelia would kill the family,"
Are you trying to insinuate that Jeremy and Shelia were in league with one another???
It can be argued that that 999 would have been the best option to undertake. His father was obviously panicking. And there were children and his mother at the home. Vulnerable people.
Appreciate if innocent it's a strange circumstance to find yourself in and it can be hard to ascertain what action you'd take.
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I have to state here I am not gone from on the fence to gulity.
I am trying to look at everything on a whole.
It is best to look at every aspect when you are nuetral.
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" Jeremy was stalling hoping Shelia would kill the family,"
Are you trying to insinuate that Jeremy and Shelia were in league with one another???
It can be argued that that 999 would have been the best option to undertake. His father was obviously panicking. And there were children and his mother at the home. Vulnerable people.
Appreciate if innocent it's a strange circumstance to find yourself in and it can be hard to ascertain what action you'd take.
I'm insinuating no such thing. I think it is clear what I said: Jeremy hoped Sheila would kill the family. It is just a theory, though.
I doubt Jeremy and Sheila would be confederates. They did not have that sort of relationship, though here I am reliant on secondary sources and the claims of people who want Jeremy to be guilty. We can't know for sure the truth of it. Jeremy claims his relationship with Sheila was good and she did say something positive about him in her diary that evening, and she did walk the boys to see him on the tractor in the rape field that same evening.
Has it occurred to you that the criticism of Jeremy concerning the phone calls can be turned around against his accusers? If Jeremy is guilty, why wouldn't he just ring 999? Why weaken his murder plot by ringing a local police station and making himself look silly and perhaps suspicious, thus needlessly drawing attention to his own actions?
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The contents of the Julie call still doesn’t make sense to me.
“Everything is going well, there’s something wrong at the farm”
If Julie knows what’s happening then the two sentences don’t fit together, if she has no idea then they still don’t fit in the manner they’ve been portrayed. I wonder if part of it is that the tone has been lost in the words being written down. (Also remembering that we’ve only got Julie’s word on exactly what was said)
Could the conversation have been more like:
Julie: “Jeremy, what’s the matter, are you ok?” (Assuming there’s a problem having got a call at 3.15am)
Jeremy: “everything’s going well” (i.e “don’t worry I’M fine”) but somethings wrong at the farm…
After this we only have Julie’s word that Sheila wasn’t mentioned, and she may not have been, alternatively she could have been mentioned and Jeremy was seeking comfort from her as he says.
The phone call could be reported almost word for word but it only takes a change in tone to change the whole meaning of that call.
Exactly.
"What do you mean something wrong at the farm Jeremy? It's 3am - what are you ringing me for? What's going on" are words she might have said but apparently didn't.
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I'm insinuating no such thing. I think it is clear what I said: Jeremy hoped Sheila would kill the family. It is just a theory, though.
I doubt Jeremy and Sheila would be confederates. They did not have that sort of relationship, though here I am reliant on secondary sources and the claims of people who want Jeremy to be guilty. We can't know for sure the truth of it. Jeremy claims his relationship with Sheila was good and she did say something positive about him in her diary that evening, and she did walk the boys to see him on the tractor in the rape field that same evening.
Has it occurred to you that the criticism of Jeremy concerning the phone calls can be turned around against his accusers? If Jeremy is guilty, why wouldn't he just ring 999? Why weaken his murder plot by ringing a local police station and making himself look silly and perhaps suspicious, thus needlessly drawing attention to his own actions?
I have given 3 reasons why he rang Chelmsford Police today. In a new thread.
Agree 100% of innocent people in that situation would dial 999.
Or go to WHF.
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I'm insinuating no such thing. I think it is clear what I said: Jeremy hoped Sheila would kill the family. It is just a theory, though.
I doubt Jeremy and Sheila would be confederates. They did not have that sort of relationship, though here I am reliant on secondary sources and the claims of people who want Jeremy to be guilty. We can't know for sure the truth of it. Jeremy claims his relationship with Sheila was good and she did say something positive about him in her diary that evening, and she did walk the boys to see him on the tractor in the rape field that same evening.
Has it occurred to you that the criticism of Jeremy concerning the phone calls can be turned around against his accusers? If Jeremy is guilty, why wouldn't he just ring 999? Why weaken his murder plot by ringing a local police station and making himself look silly and perhaps suspicious, thus needlessly drawing attention to his own actions?
..because he needed the extra time to clean himself up.
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Did they?
Chelmsford was not local.
Adam - you’ve been asked this before. Are you able to provide sources that closer police stations were actually expected to be manned at that time? Remembering that although a car did arrive back at Witham and could be contacted Robert Boutflour did note in his diary’s/Records for the 30th August that “local
People know that Witham is closed from 2am till 6am” I.e it wouldn’t have been expected to be manned normally, the only other station (apart from Chelmsford) likely to be open is Colchester - which I will agree is slightly closer, however I can also tell you from experience that people in the TD area will often default to Chelmsford as the nearest large town so I wouldn’t see it as a surprise he rang there instead of Colchester if it was a choice between the two. I’m looking forward to you proving that closer stations were expected to be manned at that time.
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Adam - you’ve been asked this before. Are you able to provide sources that closer police stations were actually expected to be manned at that time? Remembering that although a car did arrive back at Witham and could be contacted Robert Boutflour did note in his diary’s/Records for the 30th August that “local
People know that Witham is closed from 2am till 6am” I.e it wouldn’t have been expected to be manned normally, the only other station (apart from Chelmsford) likely to be open is Colchester - which I will agree is slightly closer, however I can also tell you from experience that people in the TD area will often default to Chelmsford as the nearest large town so I wouldn’t see it as a surprise he rang there instead of Colchester if it was a choice between the two. I’m looking forward to you proving that closer stations were expected to be manned at that time!
Bamber certainly did as that was the main station he used!
No.
Bamber wouldn't know either. Besides which 100% of innocent people would dial 999.
Or go to WHF alone. Which Nevill requested.
Calling the sixth furthest away police station over 20 miles away ;D
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No.
Bamber wouldn't know either. Besides which 100% of innocent people would dial 999.
Or go to WHF alone. Which Nevill requested.
Calling the sixth furthest away police station over 20 miles away ;D
Robert Boutflour would apparently disagree with you!
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Robert Boutflour would apparently disagree with you!
I live in London. So my 6 nearest police stations are probably nearer. However would take longer to travel due to traffic.
I know where my nearest one is. But do not know it's manning hours.
Certainly would not go onto the internet to look for the sixth furthest away if in such a situation.
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I live in London. So my 6 nearest police stations are probably nearer. However would take longer to travel due to traffic.
I know where my nearest one is. But do not know it's manning hours.
Certainly would not go onto the internet to look for the sixth furthest away if in such a situation.
I might even 'go over' if my father requested such.
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I live in London. So my 6 nearest police stations are probably nearer. However would take longer to travel due to traffic.
I know where my nearest one is. But do not know it's manning hours.
Certainly would not go onto the internet to look for the sixth furthest away if in such a situation.
I would say he just rang the nearest manned station, I am not sure why you keep mentioning it's the sixth furthest away station? is this a special number to JB? Are you saying he sat down with a map and picked the sixth?
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I'm insinuating no such thing. I think it is clear what I said: Jeremy hoped Sheila would kill the family. It is just a theory, though.
I doubt Jeremy and Sheila would be confederates. They did not have that sort of relationship, though here I am reliant on secondary sources and the claims of people who want Jeremy to be guilty. We can't know for sure the truth of it. Jeremy claims his relationship with Sheila was good and she did say something positive about him in her diary that evening, and she did walk the boys to see him on the tractor in the rape field that same evening.
Has it occurred to you that the criticism of Jeremy concerning the phone calls can be turned around against his accusers? If Jeremy is guilty, why wouldn't he just ring 999? Why weaken his murder plot by ringing a local police station and making himself look silly and perhaps suspicious, thus needlessly drawing attention to his own actions?
I totally agree reference you say about the call.
It can be argued via a prosecution narrative as damaging. But you can counter it with explinations and reasons
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I would say he just rang the nearest manned station, I am not sure why you keep mentioning it's the sixth furthest away station? is this a special number to JB? Are you saying he sat down with a map and picked the sixth?
How would he know what's manned?
A 999 operative would. That is their job.
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I'm insinuating no such thing. I think it is clear what I said: Jeremy hoped Sheila would kill the family. It is just a theory, though.
I doubt Jeremy and Sheila would be confederates. They did not have that sort of relationship, though here I am reliant on secondary sources and the claims of people who want Jeremy to be guilty. We can't know for sure the truth of it. Jeremy claims his relationship with Sheila was good and she did say something positive about him in her diary that evening, and she did walk the boys to see him on the tractor in the rape field that same evening.
Has it occurred to you that the criticism of Jeremy concerning the phone calls can be turned around against his accusers? If Jeremy is guilty, why wouldn't he just ring 999? Why weaken his murder plot by ringing a local police station and making himself look silly and perhaps suspicious, thus needlessly drawing attention to his own actions?
reference you saying Jeremy said his relationship with his sister was good. He also stated to police when asked who she would be more angrier at seeing " both of us , she doesn't like me and I don't like her"
We can all agree that Jeremy and Shelia's relationship wasn't brilliant
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How would he know what's manned?
A 999 operative would. That is their job.
Any near large town I should think it's not rocket science?
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How would he know what's manned?
A 999 operative would. That is their job.
His nearest police station was nearly 4 miles away.
So he certainly would not know which of the 6 were manned.
As said I gave 3 reasons why he called Chelmsford today.
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His nearest police station was nearly 4 miles away.
So he certainly would not know which of the 6 were manned.
As said I gave 3 reasons why he called Chelmsford today.
Unfortunately none of your reasoning or logic makes any sense to me, it's why I have been trying to help you with your JB scenario.
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Unfortunately none of your reasoning or logic makes any sense to me, it's why I have been trying to help you with your JB scenario.
If you do not understand these reasons, I can do no more -
He thought it would give him more chance of getting picked up by them from his cottage.
It gives him more time to change/clean after arriving back at his cottage & prior to meeting the police.
If the police could check call times, it justifies a gap of 15-20 minutes after Nevill's call - 'I was looking for the number of Chelmsford Police
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..because he needed the extra time to clean himself up.
If he was staging calls in a way that depended on establishing times, he would not have delayed at all. He would have rushed back by bike - as Adam says - and made his call straight-away. He then explains his delay in whatever way he likes - messing around with the phone book, etc.
On the other hand, if he wasn't staging a call, then he had all the time to prepare himself and invent a time for the call from Nevill.
I believe we have established in these discussions that he did not have an answering machine, so he had no technical means to stage a call; ergo, he must have invented the call, so there was no reason for him to construe reasons for a delay. If he was ready at 3.20 a.m. after 'cleaning himself up', etc., then he could ring the police at 3.21 a.m. and say he had just had the call from Nevill, and he could later say it was 3.20 a.m. Or he could make a mistake and say it was 3.25 a.m. and if challenged claim that he just mixed the times up as it was the early hours of the morning.
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If you do not understand these reasons, I can do no more -
He thought it would give him more chance of getting picked up by them from his cottage.
It gives him more time to change/clean after arriving back at his cottage & prior to meeting the police.
If the police could check call times, it justifies a gap of 15-20 minutes after Nevill's call - 'I was looking for the number of Chelmsford Police
As I said Adam none of these reason's make any sense to me whatsoever, you said he had been planning the crime for months, it's looks to me like he was planning to nick a few fags from the local shop?
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If he was staging calls in a way that depended on establishing times, he would not have delayed at all. He would have rushed back by bike - as Adam says - and made his call straight-away. He then explains his delay in whatever way he likes - messing around with the phone book, etc.
On the other hand, if he wasn't staging a call, then he had all the time to prepare himself and invent a time for the call from Nevill.
I believe we have established in these discussions that he did not have an answering machine, so he had no technical means to stage a call; ergo, he must have invented the call, so there was no reason for him to construe reasons for a delay. If he was ready at 3.20 a.m. after 'cleaning himself up', etc., then he could ring the police at 3.21 a.m. and say he had just had the call from Nevill, and he could later say it was 3.20 a.m. Or he could make a mistake and say it was 3.25 a.m. and if challenged claim that he just mixed the times up as it was the early hours of the morning.
He did have an AM. There are 7 sources.
But appreciate supporters will claim he didn't.
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Adam - Robert Boutflour seemed to believe that locals (as you keep pointing out Jeremy was) would know the manned hours.
What I do find interesting in his diary is that he picks up on Jeremy for every possible reason to show he did it - but he doesn’t mention anywhere that he didn’t call 999.
He picked up on him saying called Witham when he knew it would be closed. (Which if true means the 6th furthest Station falls flat, if untrue then I’m sure you’ll say - and I’d agree - it seems an odd thing for Jeremy to suggest he’d done.)
But nowhere does Robert Boutflour seem to show surprise at him calling Chelmsford direct instead of 999 or that particular station. Could this be a reflection on the way the family more generally were
With regards the police?
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,246.msg1557.html#msg1557
The diary notes I refer to are here
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If he was staging calls in a way that depended on establishing times, he would not have delayed at all. He would have rushed back by bike - as Adam says - and made his call straight-away. He then explains his delay in whatever way he likes - messing around with the phone book, etc.
On the other hand, if he wasn't staging a call, then he had all the time to prepare himself and invent a time for the call from Nevill.
I believe we have established in these discussions that he did not have an answering machine, so he had no technical means to stage a call; ergo, he must have invented the call, so there was no reason for him to construe reasons for a delay. If he was ready at 3.20 a.m. after 'cleaning himself up', etc., then he could ring the police at 3.21 a.m. and say he had just had the call from Nevill, and he could later say it was 3.20 a.m. Or he could make a mistake and say it was 3.25 a.m. and if challenged claim that he just mixed the times up as it was the early hours of the morning.
We established no such thing. Mike says police removed a tape from his answering machine early in the investigation.
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We established no such thing. Mike says police removed a tape from his answering machine early in the investigation.
He bought that after the incident.
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He bought that after the incident.
Mike was Bamber's main supporter in the 90's & litigation friend I believe.
He has said Bamber had an AM pre massacre.
But appreciate supporters will try to claim he didn't.
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Mike was Bamber's main supporter in the 90's & litigation friend I believe.
He has said Bamber had an AM pre massacre.
But appreciate supporters will try to claim he didn't.
Appreciate you will say he did, but the times don't fit so does not help? The delay in calling the police only makes sense if JB calls his AM from WHF.
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Appreciate you will say he did, but the times don't fit so does not help? The delay in calling the police only makes sense if JB calls his AM from WHF.
Agree. So he cycled back & called Chelmsford Police.
Simple.
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reference you saying Jeremy said his relationship with his sister was good. He also stated to police when asked who she would be more angrier at seeing " both of us , she doesn't like me and I don't like her"
We can all agree that Jeremy and Shelia's relationship wasn't brilliant
`I concur'...
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reference you saying Jeremy said his relationship with his sister was good. He also stated to police when asked who she would be more angrier at seeing " both of us , she doesn't like me and I don't like her"
We can all agree that Jeremy and Shelia's relationship wasn't brilliant
I wonder when the relationship changed because that’s not what Colin stated
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JB didn't know enough about Sheila's illness at the time which is probably why he didn't like her very much sometimes. He had no understanding of her moods and Sheila would have been frustrated because of her illness and everyone's lack of understanding of herself and her problems.
No thanks to the parents for keeping things quiet. The tragedy could have been avoided.
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It was only when JB visited the prison library that he was able to get a better understanding of paranoid schizophrenia. JB knew he hadn't committed any crime but was curious to find out how Sheila's brain had misfunctioned that night. It's obvious that he's studied a lot about her illness which is probably why he's appeared calm while in prison as it would have been the " not knowing " which would have caused him further grief as to why he'd been locked up.
Obviously he's now got sympathy and also forgiveness towards Sheila for what she's done though probably at the back of his mind he'd wished he'd known then what he knows now.
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The calmness and acceptance always struck a chord with Jeremy with me. He has served nearly 40 years but has never shown a modicum of having anytype of breakdown. Many high profile convicted prisoners like him have attempted suicide. Huntley, bellfield brady on hunger strike. Bamber has taken everyday of imprisonment in his stride
He took to jail like a duck in a pond. Which is unusual considering his comfortable background.
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The calmness and acceptance always struck a chord with Jeremy with me. He has served nearly 40 years but has never shown a modicum of having anytype of breakdown. Many high profile convicted prisoners like him have attempted suicide. Huntley, bellfield brady on hunger strike. Bamber has taken everyday of imprisonment in his stride
He took to jail like a duck in a pond. Which is unusual considering his comfortable background.
He did have a 'dirty protest' early on. What have you concluded from the above?
Did you meet other middle class prisoners? What about John cannan?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cannan
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The calmness and acceptance always struck a chord with Jeremy with me. He has served nearly 40 years but has never shown a modicum of having anytype of breakdown. Many high profile convicted prisoners like him have attempted suicide. Huntley, bellfield brady on hunger strike. Bamber has taken everyday of imprisonment in his stride
He took to jail like a duck in a pond. Which is unusual considering his comfortable background.
Was it really so comfortable? Being labelled "The Bastard" for eight years at school and not shining in any particular activity save target shooting, working at Little Chef at Rivenall End, travelling the world on a wild goose chase, dependent for money on people he despised.
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Was it really so comfortable? Being labelled "The Bastard" for eight years at school and not shining in any particular activity save target shooting, working at Little Chef at Rivenall End, travelling the world on a wild goose chase, dependent for money on people he despised.
Think he enjoyed that bit. But the bank of mum & dad ran dry.
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Think he enjoyed that bit. But the bank of mum & dad ran dry.
Think he did have a comfortable upbringing. Not many people had the chance to travel the world at an early age. Australia New Zealand. Appreciate being called a " bastard " is not nice. But apart from that I believe he didn't have that much trouble at Gresham's and found it not hard to make friends
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Was it really so comfortable? Being labelled "The Bastard" for eight years at school and not shining in any particular activity save target shooting, working at Little Chef at Rivenall End, travelling the world on a wild goose chase, dependent for money on people he despised.
in fairness Steve it's not the hardest of upbringings. And he had material things. He had two loving parents. I've never heard one person say a bad thing about Mr Bamber senior.