Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: snow66! on January 16, 2022, 08:09:PM
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
-
Thanks - could the moderator re-post this to the main discussion area, please?
Also, Snow: any chance you could edit this and add paragraph spaces? Thanks.
-
I am very sorry QC i do not have the skill on a computer to do either ,but if you can re-direct the post or edit it,i would be more than happy to let you do so.
-
I am very sorry QC i do not have the skill on a computer to do either ,but if you can re-direct the post or edit it,i would be more than happy to let you do so.
If you look at the top right of your post, you will see various options to click on.
All you need to do is click on Modify, then go into the post and edit it to add paragraphs.
Then click 'Save' and it's done.
The moderator will have to move your post to the right section, or you can do it yourself by copying your post into Word (or whatever application you have), then deleting it from here and re-posting it in the General Discussion area.
-
I am very sorry QC but i wouldnt have a clue how to do any of that.I am not aware of any applications i have.So sorry
-
I am very sorry QC but i wouldnt have a clue how to do any of that.I am not aware of any applications i have.So sorry
As you can see I have moved the thread.
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
Goodness knows how the 'Tour de France' cyclists survive over hundreds of miles.
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
Did WHF have upstairs toilets?
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
Agree with that.
-
No evidence against bamber that can't be counted.
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
If the twins bedroom door is shut, he opens it.
Doubt he would need a torch or bump into anything. He had been living in the house off & on for 24 years.
The evidence shows the twins did not wake.
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
What screams?
Daniel, Nicholas & June were shot & negated in bed. Nevill ran downstairs.
For me doubtful Sheila would hear the kitchen fight. She was asleep, under sedation & upstairs behind a closed door.
But possible.
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
Did he tell her there were cakes & biscuits?
Bamber would use persuasion to move Sheila a few yards. Force if required. He was twice as strong as her.
-
Did he tell her there were cakes & biscuits.
Bamber would use persuasion to move Sheila a few yards. Force if required. He was twice as strong as her.
well I've met him in the early nineties in prison. I've seen the pictures from 1985 he is hardly a big lad. In the funeral pictures he seems slighter than julie almost
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
He didn't hide the silencer. He put it back in it's usual place. Prior to lifting Nevill onto the coal scuttle & burning his back.
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
Bamber confirmed he could enter/exit WHF through windows.
Julie knew he could bang it shut from outside. Who told her?
-
Bamber confirmed he could enter/exit WHF through windows.
Julie knew he could bang it shut from outside. Who told her?
it was his childhood home, of course he would know every nook and cranny
-
Thanks Snow that was interesting, you cover well some of the huge problems JB would have had to face and how easily something could have gone wrong.
-
Thanks Snow that was interesting, you cover well some of the huge problems JB would have had to face and how easily something could have gone wrong.
Things did go wrong.
-
it was his childhood home, of course he would know every nook and cranny
Agree.
-
Interesting whether he turned the bedroom lights on prior to shooting. Probably better he did that.
Or he could turn the hallway light on & the light coming in from there was enough for him in the bedrooms. As just said by another poster, he would know every nook & cranny of WHF.
-
Things did go wrong.
Such as Adam? The Police never suspected anything?
-
Such as Adam?
Nevill waking & getting downstairs.
Sheila needing two shots.
Bamber not cleaning the silencer.
Reloads needed. If he was going for an 11 shot massacre.
-
Such as Adam? The Police never suspected anything?
No? So that's why he's in prison.
-
Nevill waking & getting downstairs.
Sheila needing two shots.
Bamber not cleaning the silencer.
Reloads needed. If he was going for an 11 shot massacre.
Ok but none of this caused the Police to be suspicious, as for the silencer we all know that this was planted to beef up the evidence don't we Adam. You are a guilter but you can be honest you know?
-
No? So that's why he's in prison.
Because he put an advert in the local paper saying what he was going to do, have you not read QC's posts lately?
-
I thought Anthony swore he had never seen the rifle with the sights or the silencer detatched,yet you say JB put the silencer back in the usual place.How can this be if the silencer was never off.Which is it Adam
-
The following is the scenario of 'snow66!' edited into paragraphs (I have made no other edits. It is reproduced 'as is'). Let me stress this is NOT my scenario. Please direct all comments at its author, not myself.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Hello everyone ,
this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator. We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit. Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground. His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident, i know from experience i would be anyway. So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.
Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this, simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door. JB jemmys the window and climbs in. Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time. JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle. We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech. One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs. So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom. This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion. What does he do, is the door shut, does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark. What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up. does he use a torch to help, again they could waken up, What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp. Hes standing there in a wet suit, and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June. And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them. They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June. But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.
Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever. She would hold the rifle behind her back, tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep. She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again, then bang. But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour. But this is the JB scenario, so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each. We know roughly what happens next, he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle, Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death. JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.
Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila. JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak, depressed, lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded. Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true. So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.
JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred. JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest. He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise. And boy did she get one. JBleads her through tells her to lie down, aims ,and bang--bang. Job complete. Only ralatively minor problems left.
He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence, ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood, sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place. Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of, either on the way home or at his house. Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.
One final thought, the Judge at JBs trial said, that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house, while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case. Or words to that effect. So when does things begin to make a difference. What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom. How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.
Thank you for reading.
-
Ok but none of this caused the Police to be suspicious, as for the silencer we all know that this was planted to beef up the evidence don't we Adam. You are a guilter but you can be honest you know?
Some police were suspiscious straight away. Ditto the relatives. It wasn't long until an arrest.
Bamber used the silencer. It was a silent massacre attempt. He took it off & put it in it's usual place. Prior to burning Nevill's back. He was not aware of back spatter or the aga paint.
But appreciate supporters will say it was planted as the relatives found it.
-
Some police were suspiscious straight away. Ditto the relatives. It wasn't long until an arrest.
Bamber used the silencer. It was a silent massacre attempt. He took it off & put it in it's usual place. Prior to burning Nevill's back. He was not aware of back spatter or the aga paint.
But appreciate supporters will say it was planted as the relatives found it.
They were suspicious but not because of the crime scene, but that they believed Sheila could not have done the crime?
-
Thank you very much for editing my post QC hope it wasnt too much work.
-
They were suspicious but not because of the crime scene, but that they believed Sheila could not have done the crime?
Due to the crime scene showing two reloads, a kitchen fight & Nevill lifted onto a coal scuttle.
-
It is surprising the different Bamber scenarios.
CC has Sheila being tied up.
QC has Nevill getting his feet cold sleeping downstairs. Then 4 casings somehow being moved upstairs into the bedroom by Crispy & the police.
snow66! has Bamber as a Mr Bean type. Finding it tough to sit on a bike for 15 minutes. Then bumping into things & waking the twins.
Look forward to snow66!'s Sheila scenario & Rob/QC answering my questions on theirs.
-
Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.
* Bamber said he took the bullet out the breech and put it in the mag meaning a total of 10. You appear to have 11.
* The pathological evidence has the twins sustaining all gunshots in quick succession evidenced by the fact there was no movement inbetween shots.
* The pathological and ballistics evidence has 10 bullets fired at Mr and Mrs Bamber upstairs in the first round.
* Perp needs to reload before inflicting Mr Bamber's kitchen shots. Your scenario doesn't mention the reloading.
* I believe the blood, sugar and broken glass was contained to certain areas thus the perp was able to move around freely without the risk of contamination.
* No evidence exists that the perp's clothing/person would contain any debris save gunshot residue which wasn't tested for.
Good scenario for a newbie.
-
There is one thing i would like to add to my scenario.The burn marks on Nevs back .We are told three ring type burn marks appeared on his backon the night of the murders.So when was this done.Did JB decide when he was finished and ready to exit the house,that it was a good idea to heat some object up and waste time having some fun burning little ring like marks on his fathers back.Instead of scarpering as quick as possible and getting cleaned up.I have read the marks were made prodding Nev down stairs.If so when was the fifle heated in the aga,Was this before the massacre started ,or did he suddenly say ,hold on do you mind having a time out while i nip down srairs and heat the end of the rifle.Nev and June agree and say fair enough son.So JB nips down to the kitchen and while waiting for the rifle to heat up has a drink of water,its damned hot work carrying out a massacre in a wet suit.dosnt work does it.What about the story of checking if Nev was dead,when,after the big fight and he was beaten.Why bother,he was going to make damned sure everyone was dead with multiple head shots.Pointless.No i think there was more chance of Sheila inflicting the marks,and i will explain why in my Sheila scenario,to follow.
-
I am very sorry QC i do not have the skill on a computer to do either ,but if you can re-direct the post or edit it,i would be more than happy to let you do so.
You are far politer than I would have been had such a request been asked of me.
I found your post easy to follow and understand in all respects.
-
'Lo Snow. You've clearly put much thought into your scenario. Well done for giving it a go. Not many of us have given so comprehensive a version.
Sadly, you don't seem to have much background knowledge of the characters. Jeremy waking Sheila in the middle of the night for a party in their parents' home, whist those parents were in residence? That was never going to happen.
-
Thanks cutie.
-
There is one thing i would like to add to my scenario.The burn marks on Nevs back .We are told three ring type burn marks appeared on his backon the night of the murders.So when was this done.Did JB decide when he was finished and ready to exit the house,that it was a good idea to heat some object up and waste time having some fun burning little ring like marks on his fathers back.Instead of scarpering as quick as possible and getting cleaned up.I have read the marks were made prodding Nev down stairs.If so when was the fifle heated in the aga,Was this before the massacre started ,or did he suddenly say ,hold on do you mind having a time out while i nip down srairs and heat the end of the rifle.Nev and June agree and say fair enough son.So JB nips down to the kitchen and while waiting for the rifle to heat up has a drink of water,its damned hot work carrying out a massacre in a wet suit.dosnt work does it.What about the story of checking if Nev was dead,when,after the big fight and he was beaten.Why bother,he was going to make damned sure everyone was dead with multiple head shots.Pointless.No i think there was more chance of Sheila inflicting the marks,and i will explain why in my Sheila scenario,to follow.
There's no firm evidence the marks on Mr Bamber's back were burns or even that the marks were inflicted during the murders.
Prof Knight defence pathologist did not think they were burn marks and according to him Dr Vanezis was unsure. Relevant trial testimony attached.
-
There is one thing i would like to add to my scenario.The burn marks on Nevs back .We are told three ring type burn marks appeared on his backon the night of the murders.So when was this done.Did JB decide when he was finished and ready to exit the house,that it was a good idea to heat some object up and waste time having some fun burning little ring like marks on his fathers back.Instead of scarpering as quick as possible and getting cleaned up.I have read the marks were made prodding Nev down stairs.If so when was the fifle heated in the aga,Was this before the massacre started ,or did he suddenly say ,hold on do you mind having a time out while i nip down srairs and heat the end of the rifle.Nev and June agree and say fair enough son.So JB nips down to the kitchen and while waiting for the rifle to heat up has a drink of water,its damned hot work carrying out a massacre in a wet suit.dosnt work does it.What about the story of checking if Nev was dead,when,after the big fight and he was beaten.Why bother,he was going to make damned sure everyone was dead with multiple head shots.Pointless.No i think there was more chance of Sheila inflicting the marks,and i will explain why in my Sheila scenario,to follow.
Bamber said himself the marks on Nevill's back were burn marks.
It was the basis for his 2012 CCRC submission.
He believes the burn marks were caused minus the silencer. Which I agree with.
Nevill was also lifted onto a coal scuttle. So his pyjama top could be pulled up easily.
-
Thank you Adam,Jane and cutie for your criticism,and information on the points i got wrong.
-
Thank you Adam,Jane and cutie for your criticism,and information on the points i got wrong.
Not particularly that you got wrong Snow !!
-
Thanks Lookout,hope you and the cats are well today.Any comments on my scensrio.I dont seem to be getting many.I may have to try canvassing the other posters for some trade.
-
Thank you very much for editing my post QC hope it wasnt too much work.
I am now being accused of offending you, even though you have accused me of no such thing. To be clear, no offence was intended. I was merely trying to help you, and also myself - I found it impossible to read your post as originally constructed as it's just one wall of text.
-
I am now being accused of offending you, even though you have accused me of no such thing. To be clear, no offence was intended. I was merely trying to help you, and also myself - I found it impossible to read your post as originally constructed as it's just one wall of text.
I will second that, I can't read blocks of unbroken text, it sends my eyes all squiffy.
-
I can assure you absolutely no offence was taken QC.I was delighted with your help and will probably need it again for my sheila scenario.Can i take this oppertunity to ask what you think the purpose of the marks on Nevilles back was,As you can see from my previous post i am plying for replys to my posts.
-
QC's the original walking encyclopaedia ;D
-
Thank you Adam,Jane and cutie for your criticism,and information on the points i got wrong.
Look forward to your Sheila scenario. Kindly answer questions afterwards.
QC & Rob didn't. Suspect they believe 'I've done a scenario therefore Sheila could have done it'. However refuse to defend the impossibilities of their scenarios.
-
I see Lookout,i didnt know.However i have noticed Adam dosent fully answer a point fully.Eg ,he keeps saying JB addmited he could enter and exit many windows at WHF ,and he did.But JB added that once he exited a window ,he could not secure it from the outside.it is important to add that point to the statement.Also ,Adam only answers some questions.When i asked him about Anthony Ps statement about the silencer never being off Nev/JBs rifle ,he did not give me an answer.
-
I see Lookout,i didnt know.However i have noticed Adam dosent fully answer a point fully.Eg ,he keeps saying JB addmited he could enter and exit many windows at WHF ,and he did.But JB added that once he exited a window ,he could not secure it from the outside.it is important to add that point to the statement.Also ,Adam only answers some questions.When i asked him about Anthony Ps statement about the silencer never being off Nev/JBs rifle ,he did not give me an answer.
He did say that. He's not going to admit to knowing. Part of his big plan was that WHF was secure from inside.
Anyway it's been proven the kitchen window could be banged secure from outside.
I wonder who told Julie?
-
I see Lookout,i didnt know.However i have noticed Adam dosent fully answer a point fully.Eg ,he keeps saying JB addmited he could enter and exit many windows at WHF ,and he did.But JB added that once he exited a window ,he could not secure it from the outside.it is important to add that point to the statement.Also ,Adam only answers some questions.When i asked him about Anthony Ps statement about the silencer never being off Nev/JBs rifle ,he did not give me an answer.
I keep asking how JB entered and exited but it never gets answered. Adam's the world's worst and completely ignores something he can't cope with then tootles off to start another of his own threads which he then cheekily expects everyone to answer his questions.
AP's silencer was at WHF along with his rifle which was originally registered to WHF so by law had to be kept there.
-
Hi Adam sorry if it seemed i was talking behind your back to Lookout.The problem is i am not up to replying directly to a quote by someone yet. Jane tried to tell me how ,but as yet i have not masrered it yet.As for the windows issue ,i dont think the relatives or the police ever managed to fully secure the kitchen window from outside.Surely this would have been used in evidence against JB instead of the Judge saying it made no difference to the case how he entered or exited.As for telling Julie about the window.Obviously if JB is guilty ,this is true.But as i have not decided yet if JB is guilty or not ,i do not know if she told the truth about this or not.As for Anthonys statement about the sights and moderator never being off JBs rifle ,have you any reply to this Adam.Oh and i will definately answer any questions about my Sheila scenario,although as i say ,i may have trouble doing this directly.You may just have to read through the posts to find my answers to your questions.Anyway i have my Sheila scenario written down on paper,but wont get it printed out tonight on to the forum.Cheers for now.
-
Hi again Lookout,Yes ,i have tried to query Mike about this.JB even wrote down a list of the weapons inside WHF that night with his sketch of the house.Anthonys rifle was on that list.Andrew Hunter and others believe or at least hint that both fifles were used that night,and that Anthonys had a magazine capable of holding 15 bullets.Hence Sheila maybe didnt have to re-load much at all.However,somewhere down the line it is stated by the police it was absent from the house that night ,and the official line was that it wasnt habitually kept there.And as i have said to Adam ,it was Anthony who gave a statement that he had never seen JBs rifle with the sights or silencer off.Adam how ever keeps contradicting what Anthony said ,by continually repeating that JB returned the moderator to its USUAL place in the cupboard on the night of the trajedy.So with all this suspicious statements and evidence ,is it any wonder there are so many that doubt JBs guilt.And there are many more anomalies i intend to coment on in future,Oh well thats got that off my chest,Bye for now Lookout and take care.
-
I don't believe that Sheila had to re-load as there were 15 bullets in one rifle ( AP's BRNO ) and 10 in Nevill's Anchultz rifle. An empty box which had contained bullets was found in the bedroom but never fingerprinted, neither were the bullet casings.
Moderator was never used during the tragedy. It wasn't fingerprinted, but was well contaminated and shouldn't have had a place in court.
-
Hi again Lookout.Idid not know an empty bullet box was found in the bedroom,as you know i am a newby and not quite up to speed yet.Bye again for now.
-
I don't believe that Sheila had to re-load as there were 15 bullets in one rifle ( AP's BRNO ) and 10 in Nevill's Anchultz rifle. An empty box which had contained bullets was found in the bedroom but never fingerprinted, neither were the bullet casings.
Moderator was never used during the tragedy. It wasn't fingerprinted, but was well contaminated and shouldn't have had a place in court.
Why would Anthony Pargeter leave his mag loaded at WHF? What evidence exists to support this?
There's no evidence that an empty box was found in the bedroom. How could something be fingerprinted that didn't exist?
The silencer was fingerprinted.
-
Hi cutie.You seem to be in the know ,so what is your take on the burn marks on Nens back.why were they made.This question never seems to get answered, You say there is no proof they were made on the night of the murders,but i think i read somewhere that it was accepted they were.Adan keeps repeating Neville was lifted up by JB for this sole purpose,So let us assume they were made on the night,can you think of a logical reason JB would have done this.Idont think Adam has given a reason but im not sure.I will be giving a reason why Sheila may have made them,but i cant for the life of me think why JB would have.Any ideas cutie,you must cover all anomalies if your going to convert a doubter.Bye.
-
Hi cutie.You seem to be in the know ,so what is your take on the burn marks on Nens back.why were they made.This question never seems to get answered, You say there is no proof they were made on the night of the murders,but i think i read somewhere that it was accepted they were.Adan keeps repeating Neville was lifted up by JB for this sole purpose,So let us assume they were made on the night,can you think of a logical reason JB would have done this.Idont think Adam has given a reason but im not sure.I will be giving a reason why Sheila may have made them,but i cant for the life of me think why JB would have.Any ideas cutie,you must cover all anomalies if your going to convert a doubter.Bye.
I uploaded the trial testimony of Prof Knight, defence pathologist at trial, he was of the opinion the marks were not burns. He also said Prof Vanezis was unsure.
Before I read the above I was sceptical about Bamber or Sheila causing the marks on the night of the murders. It doesn't make sense to me that Bamber would hang around burning Mr Bamber's back. Nor does it make sense to me that Sheila, in some altered state of mind, would set about burning Mr Bamber's back.
I think the marks might be unrelated to the night of the murders and relate to old wounds, maybe connected to Mr Bamber's back injury sustained when he crashed his plane in WW2.
The burns were not used against Bamber at trial as the pathologists were unsure what they were and when they occured.
-
I uploaded the trial testimony of Prof Knight, defence pathologist at trial, he was of the opinion the marks were not burns. He also said Prof Vanezis was unsure.
Before I read the above I was sceptical about Bamber or Sheila causing the marks on the night of the murders. It doesn't make sense to me that Bamber would hang around burning Mr Bamber's back. Nor does it make sense to me that Sheila, in some altered state of mind, would set about burning Mr Bamber's back.
I think the marks might be unrelated to the night of the murders and relate to old wounds, maybe connected to Mr Bamber's back injury sustained when he crashed his plane in WW2.
The burns were not used against Bamber at trial as the pathologists were unsure what they were and when they occured.
Why would Bamber lift Nevill onto the coal scuttle?
Agree Sheila would not do it. Bamber would to check for signs of life.
-
Why would Bamber lift Nevill onto the coal scuttle?
Agree Sheila would not do it. Bamber would to check for signs of life.
No evidence Bamber lifted Mr Bamber onto the coal scuttle.
If Bamber was checking for signs of life what checks did he carry out on the other victims? Why would he single out Mr Bamber?
-
No evidence Bamber lifted Mr Bamber onto the coal scuttle.
If Bamber was checking for signs of life what checks did he carry out on the other victims? Why would he single out Mr Bamber?
Nevill was found on the coal scuttle. So must have been lifted. Sheila would not be strong enough.
Bamber believes the marks were burn marks. By the rifle minus silencer. It was the basis for his 2012 appeal.
You are being optimistic believing they could be from 40 years earlier.
-
42.
The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back
-
No evidence Bamber lifted Mr Bamber onto the coal scuttle.
If Bamber was checking for signs of life what checks did he carry out on the other victims? Why would he single out Mr Bamber?
He can't burn everyones back.
Nevill did put up most resistance. And was next to the aga.
-
Did you read my take on the burn marks Adam,why would he check for life wasting time when he was about to put more bullets in his brain,to make damned sure he was dead.
-
Did you read my take on the burn marks Adam,why would he check for life wasting time when he was about to put more bullets in his brain,to make damned sure he was dead.
He checked for life after he returned downstairs. June had needed 7 bullets.
-
Do you mean before the final shots or after Adam.
-
Do you mean before the final shots or after Adam.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10792.msg497580.html#msg497580
All on page 1.
-
He checked for life after he returned downstairs. June had needed 7 bullets.
Nobody NEEDED 7 bullets ! ::) What a way of putting it-----as though you'd done it yourself !
-
So you are saying after the final head shots.You must know that simply dosent hold any water Adam.
-
I can assure you absolutely no offence was taken QC.I was delighted with your help and will probably need it again for my sheila scenario.Can i take this oppertunity to ask what you think the purpose of the marks on Nevilles back was,As you can see from my previous post i am plying for replys to my posts.
Possibilities:
(i). A poker was found by David Boutflour in the gun cupboard on 12th. September 1985. The aga was lit on the night of the 6th./7th. August.
(ii). Nevill suffered injuries in the attack that night. This could have included the injuries to his back.
(iii). Could be old injuries - Nevill suffered a back injury while serving as an RAF pilot during the War. After the War, he was a hands-on farmer right up to his death and could have suffered injuries or bruises at any time, any day of the week. He may not even have been aware of these particular injuries.
(iv). Could be an oncological biopsy. Nevill had discussions with the farm secretary, Barbara Wilson, that boded ill for the future. It could be that he feared he may have cancer. Maybe he did have cancer and did not want to tell Jeremy, and this was not picked up in the post-mortem.
I rule out (i) because no blood was found on the poker and it would not be practicable for the killer to use it.
I rule out (ii) because there was no blood coming from these back injuries.
I rule out (iv) because there are no reports of Nevill suffering symptoms that would be associated with cancerous tumours. I also rule out the injuries being the result of the removal of benign tumours because the injuries are not consistent with this.
-
Possibilities:
(i). A poker was found by David Boutflour in the gun cupboard on 12th. September 1985. The aga was lit on the night of the 6th./7th. August.
(ii). Nevill suffered injuries in the attack that night. This could have included the injuries to his back.
(iii). Could be old injuries - Nevill suffered a back injury while serving as an RAF pilot during the War. After the War, he was a hands-on farmer right up to his death and could have suffered injuries or bruises at any time, any day of the week. He may not even have been aware of these particular injuries.
(iv). Could be an oncological biopsy. Nevill had discussions with the farm secretary, Barbara Wilson, that boded ill for the future. It could be that he feared he may have cancer. Maybe he did have cancer and did not want to tell Jeremy, and this was not picked up in the post-mortem.
I rule out (i) because no blood was found on the poker and it would not be practicable for the killer to use it.
I rule out (ii) because there was no blood coming from these back injuries.
I rule out (iv) because there are no reports of Nevill suffering symptoms that would be associated with cancerous tumours. I also rule out the injuries being the result of the removal of benign tumours because the injuries are not consistent with this.
He told Barbara that he wasn't suffering from cancer.
-
He told Barbara that he wasn't suffering from cancer.
I understood that she thought he may have cancer, because he looked 'withdrawn', etc., but I've never heard or read mention of her asking him. For me, it matters little anyway, as I don't believe the back injuries related to any current medical problem of that kind.
-
Why would burn marks have to bleed QC.Iam going to assume they were made on the night for my Sheila scenario any how and you can see what you think.It will do no harm and make little over all difference to the scenario.the main thing is explaining when Nevill makes the phone call/s.As i have said i would appreciate your help editing my scenario again ,if you dont mind.Cheers.
-
Why would burn marks have to bleed QC.Iam going to assume they were made on the night for my Sheila scenario any how and you can see what you think.It will do no harm and make little over all difference to the scenario.the main thing is explaining when Nevill makes the phone call/s.As i have said i would appreciate your help editing my scenario again ,if you dont mind.Cheers.
But you're assuming it was burn marks. The injuries may have been the result of impact by the cold poker.
Or the injuries may be the result of simple scratching or something. It may just have been bruising.
If it was burns, the poker would then be used to inflict burns repeatedly, which could result in blood on the poker, but also remember that Nevill was bleeding anyway, so it is likely the poker would have picked up blood staining from Nevill and maybe transfer blood stains from the scene. Presumably, Jeremy would then have to clean the poker, which adds one further complication to the crime.
Nevill's pyjama top did not have holes or tears in it, to my knowledge. This is not conclusive because the killer could have lifted it to inflict burns or injuries, but I would have thought a hot poker would have made some sort of mark on the clothing.
-
I understood that she thought he may have cancer, because he looked 'withdrawn', etc., but I've never heard or read mention of her asking him. For me, it matters little anyway, as I don't believe the back injuries related to any current medical problem of that kind.
I think he'd had incisions for removal of the odd skin cancers which isn't surprising working outdoors in the scorching heat of summer.
-
But you're assuming it was burn marks. The injuries may have been the result of impact by the cold poker.
Or the injuries may be the result of simple scratching or something. It may just have been bruising.
If it was burns, the poker would then be used to inflict burns repeatedly, which could result in blood on the poker, but also remember that Nevill was bleeding anyway, so it is likely the poker would have picked up blood staining from Nevill and maybe transfer blood stains from the scene. Presumably, Jeremy would then have to clean the poker, which adds one further complication to the crime.
Nevill's pyjama top did not have holes or tears in it, to my knowledge. This is not conclusive because the killer could have lifted it to inflict burns or injuries, but I would have thought a hot poker would have made some sort of mark on the clothing.
Bamber lifted Nevill onto the coal scuttle. So he could pull his pyjama top up.
Even Bamber agrees to an extent. Who says the burn marks were made on the massacre night. Minus silencer.
-
Re the "burn marks"
I have seen someone propose a cattle prod might have been used. I think CAL posited that Nevill may have been tortured for the whereabouts of his cash/combination to the safe but personally I think that's cobblers and the marks remain a mystery that may not be part of the case at all.
-
https://youtu.be/_i2CjYDJGTo
This video is pretty conclusive that it was burn marks from the rifle.
15 mins.
-
Thanks for clarifyng that Adam ,as you know i intend to try and explain them in my Sheila scenario.What do you think of my answers to the COAs 71 points of evidence.Please give me some sort of an answer.
-
https://youtu.be/_i2CjYDJGTo
This video is pretty conclusive that it was burn marks from the rifle.
15 mins.
You think that is conclusive?
-
You think that is conclusive?
The TV programme had no aga.
-
You think that is conclusive?
When you consider the fact that Nevills burns are circular with an area in the centre less burned. Just like the Boyce experiments. There is little room for doubt for what caused them.
PS: Images 4 and 5 I have increased the contrast to make it easier to see.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/5b4a8cfb9/burntrial.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/iphd4vm4l/nb_burn.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/6c4ixe3zp/nb_burn2.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/71nb9qp3p/nb_burn3.png.jpg)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/q80idfdgl/muzzle.jpg)
PS. CambridgeAlchi thinks they are stitches from back surgery 🤣
-
The TV programme had no aga.
Exactly, and JB ( or Sheila ) didn't have a blowtorch.
The top mark on Nevill is oval but the pig burns are perfectly round.
Far from convincing for me and the CCRC thought so too.
-
When you consider the fact that Nevills burns are circular with an area in the centre less burned. Just like the Boyce experiments. There is little room for doubt for what caused them.
PS: Images 4 and 5 I have increased the contrast to make it easier to see.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/5b4a8cfb9/burntrial.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/iphd4vm4l/nb_burn.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/6c4ixe3zp/nb_burn2.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/71nb9qp3p/nb_burn3.png.jpg)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/q80idfdgl/muzzle.jpg)
PS. CambridgeAlchi thinks they are stitches from back surgery 🤣
Looks like the pig burns have been squashed to make them look more oval.
My screengrab above doesn't look so similar in shape or size.
Not convinced at all, sorry.
-
Exactly, and JB ( or Sheila ) didn't have a blowtorch.
The top mark on Nevill is oval but the pig burns are perfectly round.
Far from convincing for me and the CCRC thought so too.
The AGA was found switched on. And if you read point 30 in the Bamber v CCRC 2012 document. Boyce proved it was possible using an AGA cooker.
-
When you consider the fact that Nevills burns are circular with an area in the centre less burned. Just like the Boyce experiments. There is little room for doubt for what caused them.
PS: Images 4 and 5 I have increased the contrast to make it easier to see.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/5b4a8cfb9/burntrial.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/iphd4vm4l/nb_burn.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/6c4ixe3zp/nb_burn2.png)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/71nb9qp3p/nb_burn3.png.jpg)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/q80idfdgl/muzzle.jpg)
PS. CambridgeAlchi thinks they are stitches from back surgery 🤣
Where have I mentioned stitches? The back surgery was during WW2. Who has stiches in for some 40 years? ::)
I am reminded of your so-called forensic evidence breakthrough where you produced some imagery where the only relevance to anything existed in your ADHD mind.
-
As can be seen from Prof Knight's trial testimony above he was adamant that the marks were not burns.
-
The AGA was found switched on. And if you read point 30 in the Bamber v CCRC 2012 document. Boyce proved it was possible using an AGA cooker.
Thank you David.
It does seem that Nevill's back was burnt. Minus silencer. As was the 2012 CCRC submission.
-
As can be seen from Prof Knight's trial testimony above he was adamant that the marks were not burns.
What did he say they were. In his opinion?
-
The AGA was found switched on. And if you read point 30 in the Bamber v CCRC 2012 document. Boyce proved it was possible using an AGA cooker.
Aga's are usually always on. They take an age to heat up from cold.
How long does it take to heat up a rifle using an aga? Just because it's possible it doesn't mean that is what happened. You still have to have convincing evidence it was the end of the rifle and I'm not convinced.
Furthermore, if we accept Boyce's evidence, all it means is the silencer is off the rifle making the burns, not who is holding the rifle.
-
Aga's are usually always on. They take an age to heat up from cold.
How long does it take to heat up a rifle using an aga? Just because it's possible it doesn't mean that is what happened. You still have to have convincing evidence it was the end of the rifle and I'm not convinced.
Furthermore, if we accept Boyce's evidence, all it means is the silencer is off the rifle making the burns, not who is holding the rifle.
It's a start!
-
Aga's are usually always on. They take an age to heat up from cold.
How long does it take to heat up a rifle using an aga? Just because it's possible it doesn't mean that is what happened. You still have to have convincing evidence it was the end of the rifle and I'm not convinced.
Furthermore, if we accept Boyce's evidence, all it means is the silencer is off the rifle making the burns, not who is holding the rifle.
Agree.
Suspect that is why the CCRC submission was dismissed.
-
The prosecution has never attempted to use the burns against Bamber. Probably because the pathologists could not conclude what they were or when they occurred.
-
The prosecution has never attempted to use the burns against Bamber. Probably because the pathologists could not conclude what they were or when they occurred.
Bamber tried to use it in 2012. Claiming Nevill's burn marks were caused minus/after the silencer had been taken off.
Interesting.
-
The prosecution has never attempted to use the burns against Bamber. Probably because the pathologists could not conclude what they were or when they occurred.
Agree.
Suspect that is why the CCRC submission was dismissed.
If we accept Boyce's evidence then there can be little doubt the burns were caused that night but really, I don't understand why this was done, what a waste of bacon!
The most you could say is that maybe JB would be less likely to spend time heating up the rifle than Sheila because he has a long way to get home and compose himself but otherwise, it's useless isn't it? Or am I missing something?
Wouldn't it have been faster to boil the kettle?
-
If we accept Boyce's evidence then there can be little doubt the burns were caused that night but really, I don't understand why this was done, what a waste of bacon!
The most you could say is that maybe JB would be less likely to spend time heating up the rifle than Sheila because he has a long way to get home and compose himself but otherwise, it's useless isn't it? Or am I missing something?
Wouldn't it have been faster to boil the kettle?
Sheila had time constraints. They were outside WHF 40 minutes after Nevill's call to Bamber.
-
Nevill's burns are included as new in the submission because it's been established how they came about.
-
Sheila had time constraints. They were outside WHF 40 minutes after Nevill's call to Bamber.
That's true but I wonder what the purpose of burning him would be anyway?
Torture? Use a knife or the kettle, or some salt or a candle or a lit cigar
Checking he was alive? Kettle again.
Making sure he was dead? - Reload and take aim.
it's baffling.
-
If we accept Boyce's evidence then there can be little doubt the burns were caused that night but really, I don't understand why this was done, what a waste of bacon!
The most you could say is that maybe JB would be less likely to spend time heating up the rifle than Sheila because he has a long way to get home and compose himself but otherwise, it's useless isn't it? Or am I missing something?
Wouldn't it have been faster to boil the kettle?
Why accept Boyce's ballistics evidence when the pathologist who conducted the pm could not be sure what the marks were.
But why would Bamber or Sheila single out Mr Bamber for this treatment?
Prof Knight thought they were deep abrasions from prodding. I think both were uncertain over whether they were recent but I would have to check on this.
I must remember not to upset you!
-
Nevill's burns are included as new in the submission because it's been established how they came about.
Yvonne said she had found something new about them but nothing about including them in the submission.
Not sure how they could be included in the submission when a) the pathologist who undertook the pm wasn't certain what they were and b) they never formed part of the prosecution case against Bamber and c) they didn't form part of the defence against Sheila.
-
Why accept Boyce's ballistics evidence when the pathologist who conducted the pm could not be sure what the marks were.
But why would Bamber or Sheila single out Mr Bamber for this treatment?
Prof Knight thought they were deep abrasions from prodding. I think both were uncertain over whether they were recent but I would have to check on this.
I must remember not to upset you!
I don't accept Boyce's evidence based on what I saw on the old MWT show. As I stated earlier, the marks shall probably remain a mystery.
Don't worry CC, with a profile pic as attractive as yours, I would be putty in your hands. :))
-
I don't accept Boyce's evidence based on what I saw on the old MWT show. As I stated earlier, the marks shall probably remain a mystery.
Don't worry CC, with a profile pic as attractive as yours, I would be putty in your hands. :))
Well according to Yvonne/CT she claims she has got to the bottom of them. Remains to be seen.
-
Yvonne said she had found something new about them but nothing about including them in the submission.
Not sure how they could be included in the submission when a) the pathologist who undertook the pm wasn't certain what they were and b) they never formed part of the prosecution case against Bamber and c) they didn't form part of the defence against Sheila.
This site is always the last to know anything new.
-
Well according to Yvonne/CT she claims she has got to the bottom of them. Remains to be seen.
That's the woman that thinks a vague reference to a "999 line" can only mean Sheila called an ambulance.
Wake me up if anything actually happens.
-
This site is always the last to know anything new.
Has there really been anything new since 1985?
Most I can think of is Mr Ismail's evidence at the 2002 appeal.
-
Has there really been anything new since 1985?
Most I can think of is Mr Ismail's evidence at the 2002 appeal.
Afaik that's the only new evidence the prosecution has advanced.
Everything advanced by the defence has been thrown out but has only really been a variation on themes at trial.
-
Why accept Boyce's ballistics evidence when the pathologist who conducted the pm could not be sure what the marks were.
But why would Bamber or Sheila single out Mr Bamber for this treatment?
Prof Knight thought they were deep abrasions from prodding. I think both were uncertain over whether they were recent but I would have to check on this.
I must remember not to upset you!
Bamber was checking for signs of life. Nevill had put up a tremendous struggle earlier.
-
Why accept Boyce's ballistics evidence when the pathologist who conducted the pm could not be sure what the marks were.
But why would Bamber or Sheila single out Mr Bamber for this treatment?
Prof Knight thought they were deep abrasions from prodding. I think both were uncertain over whether they were recent but I would have to check on this.
I must remember not to upset you!
By Bamber to check for signs of life.
-
Bamber was checking for signs of life. Nevill had put up a tremendous struggle earlier.
Yes but he then sustained 4 gunshot wounds to the head.
He no longer posed a risk in terms of overpowering Bamber, arming himself, raising the alarm etc, so the only reason to check for life would be to ensure he couldn't end up as a witness. In which case how could he be certain the other victims did not present such a risk?
It was never suggested a trial Bamber was checking for life.
-
By Bamber to check for signs of life.
Then why didn't the prosecution assert such at trial?
-
Then why didn't the prosecution assert such at trial?
Suppose the defence would counter claim it was Sheila who did it.
The prosecution had a lot.
Bamber only claimed it was done minus/after the silencer had been taken off in 2012.
-
Bamber was checking for signs of life. Nevill had put up a tremendous struggle earlier.
As I said above, boil the kettle or reload and make sure.
Heating up the rifle is a bizarre thing to spend time doing and is more likely to be Sheila.
That is, if you can first establish Boyce's evidence from photographs can overcome that of a pathologist who examined the actual wounds.
-
As i have said i have a theory for the marks ,to be included in my Sheila scenario.
-
As I said above, boil the kettle or reload and make sure.
Heating up the rifle is a bizarre thing to spend time doing and is more likely to be Sheila.
That is, if you can first establish Boyce's evidence from photographs can overcome that of a pathologist who examined the actual wounds.
Would be interesting to see how long it would take to heat the rifle end sufficiently.
2-5 minutes & he can do other things as part of the stage while waiting.
-
Would be interesting to see how long it would take to heat the rifle end sufficiently.
2-5 minutes & he can do other things as part of the stage while waiting.
From the 2012 JR:
24: There is, however, a further report that was submitted, after the Commission's decision of 25 April 2012, in which Mr Boyce set out his view as to how the rifle end could have been heated to the necessary temperature. He accepts that multiple firing would not have had sufficient effect on the temperature of the rifle barrel or the silencer. He concludes that the rifle or the silencer had to be heated artificially in order to burn. It was possible to heat a barrel on a hot plate of a cooker to 200 degrees in less than five minutes.
25) This issue is not dealt with by the Commission, but I think it would be helpful to express a short view. There was in the kitchen an AGA. The mechanism that Mr Boyce suggests must imply the placing of the rifle barrel on a hot plate of the AGA, and by the hot plate of the AGA I mean that part that is normally used for cooking and which when it is not used for cooking can be covered by a lid. An AGA is not constructed so if a gun is leant against it, it will heat the barrel up. As Mr Boyce makes clear, it would have to be on the hot plate. It seems to me that if that further evidence had been before the Commission, although it would be a matter for them, it would seem very improbable that a barrel would have been heated in that way.
I can't quite picture how the gun could be left on the Aga plate without holding it there?
-
From the 2012 JR:
24: There is, however, a further report that was submitted, after the Commission's decision of 25 April 2012, in which Mr Boyce set out his view as to how the rifle end could have been heated to the necessary temperature. He accepts that multiple firing would not have had sufficient effect on the temperature of the rifle barrel or the silencer. He concludes that the rifle or the silencer had to be heated artificially in order to burn. It was possible to heat a barrel on a hot plate of a cooker to 200 degrees in less than five minutes.
25) This issue is not dealt with by the Commission, but I think it would be helpful to express a short view. There was in the kitchen an AGA. The mechanism that Mr Boyce suggests must imply the placing of the rifle barrel on a hot plate of the AGA, and by the hot plate of the AGA I mean that part that is normally used for cooking and which when it is not used for cooking can be covered by a lid. An AGA is not constructed so if a gun is leant against it, it will heat the barrel up. As Mr Boyce makes clear, it would have to be on the hot plate. It seems to me that if that further evidence had been before the Commission, although it would be a matter for them, it would seem very improbable that a barrel would have been heated in that way.
So Bamber had the facility - aga. He also had the time - less than 5 minutes.
This supports Nevill being lifted onto the coal scuttle.
-
As i have said, i will be including a theory about the burn marks in my Sheila scenario.
-
As i have said, i will be including a theory about the burn marks in my Sheila scenario.
Even Bamber thinks they were inflicted on the night.
-
As i have said, i will be including a theory about the burn marks in my Sheila scenario.
Well, don't keep us in suspense too long Snow!
-
Even Bamber thinks they were inflicted on the night.
Bamber also thinks he can bamboozle people into believing Nevill spoke to PC West.
-
Even Bamber thinks they were inflicted on the night.
This does support him taking the silencer off & putting it away.
After shooting everyone & prior to burning Nevill's back.
If he had heated the rifle with silencer attached, the paint & blood evidence would have gone.
-
Bamber also thinks he can bamboozle people into believing Nevill spoke to PC West.
is PC west still alive?
-
PC west would be able to recall with clarity I assume on events as serious as this if he spoke to two males both with the surname of Bamber and father and son
-
PC west would be able to recall with clarity I assume on events as serious as this if he spoke to two males both with the surname of Bamber and father and son
In a recent interview, he dismissed as ridiculous, the claim that there were two calls different from two men.
-
My Sheila scenario also has the burn marks inflicted on the night.Anyway cant you just accept how utterly improbable that JB made the marks Adam.Simply wasting time for no logical reason.Dont you ever let the teensie weensiest bit of doubt creep into your mind Adam.Along with the problem creeping up on the twins,carrying Sheila through to be willingly shot,the police destroying the night dress and other valuable evidence,no conclusive DNA in the sileccer ,and i suppose we better mention the NOTW deal which MAY discredit Julies testimony.Not even a smidgen of doubt Adam.You remind me of Lee j Cobb in the movie Twelve angry men ,he eventually folded when it was demonstrated to him,that you dont always mean what you say,and how it can be taken out of context.Still its maybe me who is the fool in this case ,clutching at straws wishing for a happy outcome.I just dont know.Time will tell,something that JB is running out of.
-
In a recent interview, he dismissed as ridiculous, the claim that there were two calls different from two men.
It's not impossible for two makes speaking on a phone to sound the same.
-
It's not impossible for two makes speaking on a phone to sound the same.
What can I say, Lookout? JB supporters have offered numerous reasons why they believed two call were made to police by two different men, one being withheld. Claims have been made that there were two different logs, one of which was kept hidden. THE call would have been answered in the same way as all other calls received, ie name, contact number asked for, along with reason for call. Had a second call, relating to the same problem, have been received, the caller would have been stopped from repeating information previously received and reassured that they'd already received notification of the problem.
I get that supporters want it to be true, but wanting something doesn't make it so. JB simply can NOT be the only one in this whole, sorry saga, who is telling the truth. West made perfect sense when he firmly stated, as ridiculous, the claim that two separate call had been received about the same incident.
-
What can I say, Lookout? JB supporters have offered numerous reasons why they believed two call were made to police by two different men, one being withheld. Claims have been made that there were two different logs, one of which was kept hidden. THE call would have been answered in the same way as all other calls received, ie name, contact number asked for, along with reason for call. Had a second call, relating to the same problem, have been received, the caller would have been stopped from repeating information previously received and reassured that they'd already received notification of the problem.
I get that supporters want it to be true, but wanting something doesn't make it so. JB simply can NOT be the only one in this whole, sorry saga, who is telling the truth. West made perfect sense when he firmly stated, as ridiculous, the claim that two separate call had been received about the same incident.
Jane, one of the calls was answered, then when the other call came in because one of the officers left JB hanging on the phone while the previous caller ( Nevill ) was being assisted by the same officer on the same phone ,who was directing staff from another division to act on Nevill's call.
I can fully understand what happened as that was the time JB had asked the officer on the phone " what kept you ?". JB had waited 11 minutes for the officer to get back to him after sorting Nevill's call.
It's whether you want to accept that this is what happened or not dependent on which side of the fence you're on but to me the whole scenario is simple enough to follow.
-
Jane, one of the calls was answered, then when the other call came in because one of the officers left JB hanging on the phone while the previous caller ( Nevill ) was being assisted by the same officer on the same phone ,who was directing staff from another division to act on Nevill's call.
I can fully understand what happened as that was the time JB had asked the officer on the phone " what kept you ?". JB had waited 11 minutes for the officer to get back to him after sorting Nevill's call.
It's whether you want to accept that this is what happened or not dependent on which side of the fence you're on but to me the whole scenario is simple enough to follow.
But to the best of my knowledge, the operatives weren't even in the same building, so it makes even less sense that a second call wouldn't have been passed on.
-
But to the best of my knowledge, the operatives weren't even in the same building, so it makes even less sense that a second call wouldn't have been passed on.
JB had to wait 11 minutes on his call which would tie-in with the time difference of his father's previous call in which the waiting was to do with patching Nevill's call to another division which was nearer to the scene of the crime.
-
JB had to wait 11 minutes on his call which would tie-in with the time difference of his father's previous call in which the waiting was to do with patching Nevill's call to another division which was nearer to the scene of the crime.
The number of extremely remote suppositions -"what if's"- put forward form part of the reason for my change of mind. Because it would require all these, very questionable and convoluted suggestions to be factually correct in order for JB to be innocent, such become, to me, improbable and unrealistic. It wouldn't be sensible to further discuss the point. :)
-
The number of extremely remote suppositions -"what if's"- put forward form part of the reason for my change of mind. Because it would require all these, very questionable and convoluted suggestions to be factually correct in order for JB to be innocent, such become, to me, improbable and unrealistic. It wouldn't be sensible to further discuss the point. :)
I'd rather use common sense than any hesitancy regarding " what ifs " of which there's no room for in a case as large as this one.
-
In a recent interview, he dismissed as ridiculous, the claim that there were two calls different from two men.
Because it is ridiculous. I once spoke to someone that believes this and they insisted that Nevill must have given them his name and address because Jeremy Bamber would not have been asked!
I can see why the CT propaganda is superficially convincing, I just don't understand the mental gymnastics involved to be able to keep believing utter nonsense when it is pointed out.
-
Because it is ridiculous. I once spoke to someone that believes this and they insisted that Nevill must have given them his name and address because Jeremy Bamber would not have been asked!
I can see why the CT propaganda is superficially convincing, I just don't understand the mental gymnastics involved to be able to keep believing utter nonsense when it is pointed out.
You're saying that if we ring police to tell them about an incident occurring elsewhere, they'll say "Thank-you, Sir/Madam" and put the phone down???!!!
I think the CT has gathered to it those who believe JB innocent without knowing why. All they really want to hear is others sharing their belief without challenge it, ergo it's unnecessary to ask questions/look closer. I HAVE been there.
-
PC west would be able to recall with clarity I assume on events as serious as this if he spoke to two males both with the surname of Bamber and father and son
No, because he's lying! This is definitely what happened:
3.26 - NB calls PC West using a local number.
3.35 - CA7 is dispatched from Witham
3.36 - JB calls PC West who puts him on hold for around 10 minutes before taking details he already had and doesn't mention to JB that his father has called and a car was already on its way.
3.47 ( Approx) JB hangs up and drives at 2000 MPH to arrive at WHF by 3.48.
-
Why was JB left hanging on the phone for 11 minutes while awaiting an answer from EP ?
-
You're saying that if we ring police to tell them about an incident occurring elsewhere, they'll say "Thank-you, Sir/Madam" and put the phone down???!!!
I think the CT has gathered to it those who believe JB innocent without knowing why. All they really want to hear is others sharing their belief without challenge it, ergo it's unnecessary to ask questions/look closer. I HAVE been there.
I think that's what they honestly believed yes!
As I have said before, you only have to say "police corruption" and some will jump fully on board without hearing another word. I think it's good for those maintaining innocence to have support but there is a fine line between support and enabling false hope and impossible expectations.
Roch made the point that the CT should have an in house sceptic and he's right but how would that work when Yvonne et al have apparently convinced themselves that their improbable theories are proven fact?
-
Why was JB left hanging on the phone for 11 minutes while awaiting an answer from EP ?
A good question that should be answered by EP Lookout.
Between JB's dithering and police tardiness, there are 20-25 minutes between Nevill's alleged call to Jeremy and CA7 being dispatched.
If JB is innocent, those minutes might have been crucial.