Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 09:17:AM

Title: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 09:17:AM
Many scenarios have been proffered, most rejected, but it remains fact that she moved from her bedroom to the master bedroom. Is it possible that JB told her that their father had called him to come over because June "had gone mad and got hold of the gun"? Whilst Sheila was unlikely to be catatonic, I think, woken from sleep and lethargic from medication, she'd have been unlikely, having experienced her mother's wrath, to have questioned what he said. If he'd told her June was threatening to kill the boys/holding them hostage, her entire focus would have been on saving them. He may well have already killed the rest of the family. All that was left was despatching Sheila.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Roch on December 29, 2021, 10:33:AM
Many scenarios have been proffered, most rejected, but it remains fact that she moved from her bedroom to the master bedroom. Is it possible that JB told her that their father had called him to come over because June "had gone mad and got hold of the gun"? Whilst Sheila was unlikely to be catatonic, I think, woken from sleep and lethargic from medication, she'd have been unlikely, having experienced her mother's wrath, to have questioned what he said. If he'd told her June was threatening to kill the boys/holding them hostage, her entire focus would have been on saving them. He may well have already killed the rest of the family. All that was left was despatching Sheila.

If Jerrmy shot Sheila, what would their respective positions be, as this was taking place?
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 10:54:AM
If Jerrmy shot Sheila, what would their respective positions be, as this was taking place?

Accepting that bewilderment would have been her reaction, with fear and despair her dominant emotions, I might have expected to see Sheila on the floor, head on her knees and arms clasping them. JB may not even have had the gun in his hands at that point, he could have left it on the bed whilst persuading Sheila into a position conducive to enabling him to pick it up and shoot her. I do think he'd have kept talking to her. He may even have crouched down to floor level to cajole her. I don't think he'd have given her the opportunity for conversation.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Armchair Detective on December 29, 2021, 11:02:AM
For me, you have to imagine some unlikely events to conjure up a scenario for either of them to be the killer.

I've always thought that JB intended to shoot them all in their beds, leave the rifle on Sheila and voila but NB woke up and pushed past him as he opened fire in the bedroom. Perhaps Sheila was woken up by the commotion downstairs, went to investigate, saw her mother and was still dazed, wondering WTF was happening when JB came back up the stairs with a reloaded magazine.

JB was wearing a mask and simply stuck the gun under her chin, ordered a terrified Sheila to lie down and pulled the trigger. Horrified he has to pull the trigger again, he stages the scene, puts the open bible on her but it slides off, closing itself and producing the mirrored blood the court of appeal pointed out, he opens it again, perhaps it falls open to the same well read page and he takes off the silencer and leaves, flicking the V sign at his hated mother on the way out.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 11:09:AM
For me, you have to imagine some unlikely events to conjure up a scenario for either of them to be the killer.

I've always thought that JB intended to shoot them all in their beds, leave the rifle on Sheila and voila but NB woke up and pushed past him as he opened fire in the bedroom. Perhaps Sheila was woken up by the commotion downstairs, went to investigate, saw her mother and was still dazed, wondering WTF was happening when JB came back up the stairs with a reloaded magazine.

JB was wearing a mask and simply stuck the gun under her chin, ordered a terrified Sheila to lie down and pulled the trigger. Horrified he has to pull the trigger again, he stages the scene, puts the open bible on her but it slides off, closing itself and producing the mirrored blood the court of appeal pointed out, he opens it again, perhaps it falls open to the same well read page and he takes off the silencer and leaves, flicking the V sign at his hated mother on the way out.

That would certainly have been easier. However, he had to have Nevill downstairs in order for him to be seen to have been near the phone, the upstairs phone having been removed. The other way of looking at it is to think in reverse, ie, because Nevill escaped the bedroom the story had to change. He still had to get Sheila from her bedroom to the master bedroom. By telling her the twins were there, she'd have gone straight there, bypassing their bedroom.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Armchair Detective on December 29, 2021, 11:42:AM
That would certainly have been easier. However, he had to have Nevill downstairs in order for him to be seen to have been near the phone, the upstairs phone having been removed. The other way of looking at it is to think in reverse, ie, because Nevill escaped the bedroom the story had to change. He still had to get Sheila from her bedroom to the master bedroom. By telling her the twins were there, she'd have gone straight there, bypassing their bedroom.

Hmm possibly but I don't think having Nevill downstairs was part of the plan else he would have moved the casings from upstairs, maybe he was going to plug the spare phone back in the bedroom when he was done ( so many scenarios!) - perhaps, with his plans changed, he just woke Sheila and ordered her at gunpoint.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2021, 01:01:PM
Why were the parents and children shot at so very much, but Sheila's injuries though fatal were extremely minimal in comparison, yet she'd have been the one with the most energy, to have ran to each phone and summoned help ?
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 01:07:PM
Why were the parents and children shot at so very much, but Sheila's injuries though fatal were extremely minimal in comparison, yet she'd have been the one with the most energy, to have ran to each phone and summoned help ?

Suicides don't normally resort to using half a dozen shots to do the job.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Adam on December 29, 2021, 01:08:PM
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10946.0.html

I have already done a poll on this.

Whatever situation Bamber found himself in with Sheila, he could deal with it. He had to.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2021, 01:27:PM
Suicides don't normally resort to using half a dozen shots to do the job.





Right, you can't exactly shoot yourself that many times really, but why Sheila and not either of the parents ?
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 01:36:PM




Right, you can't exactly shoot yourself that many times really, but why Sheila and not either of the parents ?


Her parents weren't meant to look as if they'd A) been shot by a competent marksman or B) had committed suicide. I don't believe it was ever intended for Sheila to be shot twice, but it had to be as the first shot didn't immediately kill her.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2021, 01:41:PM

Her parents weren't meant to look as if they'd A) been shot by a competent marksman or B) had committed suicide. I don't believe it was ever intended for Sheila to be shot twice, but it had to be as the first shot didn't immediately kill her.





One of those shots occurred after she'd died.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 01:45:PM




One of those shots occurred after she'd died.


I'd trust what Vanezis said over the CT. Didn't two pathologists suggest movement MAY have been possible after the first shot, and was it not said that the first shot would have been fatal, but not immediately so?
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2021, 02:19:PM

I'd trust what Vanezis said over the CT. Didn't two pathologists suggest movement MAY have been possible after the first shot, and was it not said that the first shot would have been fatal, but not immediately so?




What it does tell me Jane is that she only gave herself one shot. Whatever happened after that remains to be seen, as JB was nowhere near.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 02:36:PM



What it does tell me Jane is that she only gave herself one shot. Whatever happened after that remains to be seen, as JB was nowhere near.


I believe someone once had her walking upstairs after having been shot once downstairs, clearly not taking into account that the shot had damaged her spine, making head/arm movement very painful. I dispute all that, naturally, but the dead don't walk, do they? I can't help but think that the CT will say anything which is favourable to JB. I'm inclined to think they say it, and put it out there without seeing if it holds water.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2021, 03:28:PM

I believe someone once had her walking upstairs after having been shot once downstairs, clearly not taking into account that the shot had damaged her spine, making head/arm movement very painful. I dispute all that, naturally, but the dead don't walk, do they? I can't help but think that the CT will say anything which is favourable to JB. I'm inclined to think they say it, and put it out there without seeing if it holds water.





If there's to be an appeal, there'll also have to be a strong witness too so if an officer, who was present, has come forward, then we'll get to know the full story. An appeal can't go forward without a witness.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Steve_uk on December 29, 2021, 03:33:PM
For me, you have to imagine some unlikely events to conjure up a scenario for either of them to be the killer.

I've always thought that JB intended to shoot them all in their beds, leave the rifle on Sheila and voila but NB woke up and pushed past him as he opened fire in the bedroom. Perhaps Sheila was woken up by the commotion downstairs, went to investigate, saw her mother and was still dazed, wondering WTF was happening when JB came back up the stairs with a reloaded magazine.

JB was wearing a mask and simply stuck the gun under her chin, ordered a terrified Sheila to lie down and pulled the trigger. Horrified he has to pull the trigger again, he stages the scene, puts the open bible on her but it slides off, closing itself and producing the mirrored blood the court of appeal pointed out, he opens it again, perhaps it falls open to the same well read page and he takes off the silencer and leaves, flicking the V sign at his hated mother on the way out.
This wouldn't work because Nevill had to make the telephone call at some point.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Steve_uk on December 29, 2021, 03:35:PM




If there's to be an appeal, there'll also have to be a strong witness too so if an officer, who was present, has come forward, then we'll get to know the full story. An appeal can't go forward without a witness.
Surely they're all retired by now.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Adam on December 29, 2021, 03:52:PM
This wouldn't work because Nevill had to make the telephone call at some point.

Bamber may have planned to shoot Nevill in bed. Then push him onto the bedroom floor.

The bedroom phone could be put in the bedroom. Off the hook.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Steve_uk on December 29, 2021, 03:53:PM
Bamber may have planned to shoot Nevill in bed. Then push him onto the bedroom floor.

The bedroom phone could be put in the bedroom. Off the hook.
It might but star witness Jean Boutell might have testified as to the telephones moving again.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Adam on December 29, 2021, 03:57:PM
Replies 91, 92 & 93 in the 'Sheila Frooze' thread have a straight forward scenario of Bamber moving Sheila 20 yards. Without coercion.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2021, 04:06:PM




If there's to be an appeal, there'll also have to be a strong witness too so if an officer, who was present, has come forward, then we'll get to know the full story. An appeal can't go forward without a witness.

I believe it to have been just one of Mike's theories, Lookout :-[
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2021, 04:11:PM
Surely they're all retired by now.






So long as they're not dead, retirement's neither here nor there.
Title: Re: So how DID Jeremy 'Lure' Sheila To Her Death?
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2021, 04:14:PM
I believe it to have been just one of Mike's theories, Lookout :-[






I didn't know that Jane.