Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: guest29835 on November 24, 2021, 09:04:PM
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Note:
Due to space limitations imposed on this Forum, the following is only a selection of posts. A more comprehensive index is being built on a different forum and 'work in progress' can be viewed here: https://jeremybamberdiscussionforum.com/index.php#c5
1. THREADS PUTTING THE REASONABLE DOUBT CASE
A point-by-point summary of the case for Reasonable Doubt
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10373.msg484384.html#msg484384
Grounds For Reasonable Doubt
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10627.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10982.msg507802.html#msg507802
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg508597.html#msg508597
Some Reasons I Think He Did It & Grounds For Reasonable Doubt
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10319.0.html
Applying Occam's Razor
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10339.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10986.msg508158.html#msg508158
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10986.msg508169.html#msg508169
What Happened In The Kitchen?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10302.0.html
Why did Nevill ring Jeremy and what did he say?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8231.msg487527.html#msg487527
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501783.html#msg501783
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501700.html#msg501700
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501696.html#msg501696
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501695.html#msg501695
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501688.html#msg501688
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501703.html#msg501703
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501707.html#msg501707
The phone calls
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501739.html#msg501739
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10991.msg508823.html#msg508823
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10991.msg508912.html#msg508912
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509821.html#msg509821
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509833.html#msg509833
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509863.html#msg509863
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509870.html#msg509870
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509922.html#msg509922
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509939.html#msg509939
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509943.html#msg509943
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509913.html#msg509913
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509949.html#msg509949
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509951.html#msg509951
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509958.html#msg509958
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509969.html#msg509969
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509981.html#msg509981
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509985.html#msg509985
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509989.html#msg509989
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509991.html#msg509991
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509997.html#msg509997
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11028.msg511533.html#msg511533
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11028.msg511569.html#msg511569
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11028.msg511622.html#msg511622
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11028.msg511628.html#msg511628
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11028.msg511807.html#msg511807
Problems with a Jeremy scenario
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9026.msg490783.html#msg490783
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484895.html#msg484895
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484898.html#msg484898
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484906.html#msg484906
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484913.html#msg484913
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484914.html#msg484914
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484944.html#msg484944
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484972.html#msg484972
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10392.msg485034.html#msg485034
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10392.msg485036.html#msg485036
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10392.msg485038.html#msg485038
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8231.msg487523.html#msg487523
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10510.msg487956.html#msg487956
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491638.html#msg491638
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10614.msg491786.html#msg491786
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10722.msg494293.html#msg494293
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10722.msg494300.html#msg494300
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10663.msg494318.html#msg494318
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502907.html#msg502907
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502914.html#msg502914
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502929.html#msg502929
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg503026.html#msg503026
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10965.msg507214.html#msg507214
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510327.html#msg510327
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510606.html#msg510606
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510613.html#msg510613
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510617.html#msg510617
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510620.html#msg510620
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510630.html#msg510630
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510632.html#msg510632
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510637.html#msg510637
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11023.msg510645.html#msg510645
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11023.msg510648.html#msg510648
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11023.msg510650.html#msg510650
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11023.msg510663.html#msg510663
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11026.msg511003.html#msg511003
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11026.msg511026.html#msg511026
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11026.msg511031.html#msg511031
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11030.msg511171.html#msg511171
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11026.msg511172.html#msg511172
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11026.msg511213.html#msg511213
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11026.msg511238.html#msg511238
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11026.msg511231.html#msg511231
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10293.msg480171.html#msg480171
Sheila froze?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507385.html#msg507385
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507420.html#msg507420
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507426.html#msg507426
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507501.html#msg507501
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507506.html#msg507506
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507510.html#msg507510
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507533.html#msg507533
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507627.html#msg507627
Whose blood was in the silencer?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10534.msg488941.html#msg488941
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10534.msg488945.html#msg488945
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10534.msg489002.html#msg489002
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491248.html#msg491248
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491782.html#msg491782
The position of Sheila's body
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491177.html#msg491177
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491119.html#msg491119
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491160.html#msg491160
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491202.html#msg491202
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491217.html#msg491217
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491241.html#msg491241
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10646.msg494094.html#msg494094
The possibility of undetected injuries to Sheila
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10506.msg487811.html#msg487811
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10506.msg487815.html#msg487815
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10506.msg487817.html#msg487817
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10506.msg487824.html#msg487824
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490126.html#msg490126
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490149.html#msg490149
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10160.msg492643.html#msg492643
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10160.msg492652.html#msg492652
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10160.msg492656.html#msg492656
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10652.msg493048.html#msg493048
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10652.msg493067.html#msg493067
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10160.msg493992.html#msg493992
Was June shot in bed?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484969.html#msg484969
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484977.html#msg484977
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484987.html#msg484987
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10392.msg485029.html#msg485029
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10392.msg485031.html#msg485031
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg485082.html#msg485082
Things that don't make sense
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497183.html#msg497183
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497190.html#msg497190
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497209.html#msg497209
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497220.html#msg497220
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497262.html#msg497262
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497384.html#msg497384
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10788.msg497413.html#msg497413
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10789.msg497447.html#msg497447
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10787.msg497522.html#msg497522
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg495503.html#msg495503
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg495505.html#msg495505
Movement at the window
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10639.msg493998.html#msg493998
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10713.msg494177.html#msg494177
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502814.html#msg502814
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502817.html#msg502817
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10950.msg506951.html#msg506951
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11000.msg509564.html#msg509564
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11022.msg510592.html#msg510592
Then They Ran Away
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10700.msg495731.html#msg495731
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10950.msg507056.html#msg507056
Who delayed? The police or Jeremy?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10952.msg505997.html#msg505997
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10952.msg506032.html#msg506032
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10952.msg506038.html#msg506038
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10952.msg506044.html#msg506044
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10952.msg506055.html#msg506055
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502870.html#msg502870
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502879.html#msg502879
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502891.html#msg502891
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502724.html#msg502724
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502738.html#msg502738
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502746.html#msg502746
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502752.html#msg502752
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502778.html#msg502778
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502797.html#msg502797
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502800.html#msg502800
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502804.html#msg502804
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502811.html#msg502811
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10884.msg502812.html#msg502812
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg503250.html#msg503250
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg503253.html#msg503253
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11046.msg512342.html#msg512342
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11046.msg512375.html#msg512375
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11046.msg512393.html#msg512393
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11046.msg512425.html#msg512425
How Did Jeremy Move To And From The Farmhouse? Some Thoughts & Problems...
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497271.html#msg497271
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483356.html#msg483356
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483360.html#msg483360
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483364.html#msg483364
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483367.html#msg483367
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483372.html#msg483372
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483375.html#msg483375
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483378.html#msg483378
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483769.html#msg483769
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483824.html#msg483824
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483828.html#msg483828
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.msg483853.html#msg483853
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483085.html#msg483085
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10346.msg483116.html#msg483116
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10346.msg483156.html#msg483156
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10346.msg483312.html#msg483312
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10346.msg483325.html#msg483325
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10346.msg483335.html#msg483335
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10965.msg506883.html#msg506883
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10965.msg506892.html#msg506892
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10965.msg506902.html#msg506902
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11039.msg512332.html#msg512332
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11039.msg512336.html#msg512336
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11039.msg512339.html#msg512339
Problems With The Scratch Marks
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10306.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10305.msg480845.html#msg480845
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10305.msg480847.html#msg480847
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483085.html#msg483085
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483123.html#msg483123
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483152.html#msg483152
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483160.html#msg483160
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483279.html#msg483279
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483280.html#msg483280
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483282.html#msg483282
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483289.html#msg483289
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483295.html#msg483295
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483301.html#msg483301
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483352.html#msg483352
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483383.html#msg483383
If Jeremy Bamber is guilty, did he use the silencer in the massacre?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483658.html#msg483658
The silencer
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10304.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489488.html#msg489488
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489494.html#msg489494
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9026.msg490811.html#msg490811
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10308.0.html
The fingerprint evidence
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10406.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485317.html#msg485317
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485319.html#msg485319
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485349.html#msg485349
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485861.html#msg485861
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485866.html#msg485866
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485871.html#msg485871
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485875.html#msg485875
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485897.html#msg485897
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg485948.html#msg485948
Police Handling Of the Bamber Arsenal
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10292.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg492775.html#msg492775
The Silenced Rifle Did Not Fit Inside The Gun Cupboard
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11031.msg511092.html#msg511092
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11031.msg511135.html#msg511135
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11031.msg511148.html#msg511148
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11031.msg511155.html#msg511155
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11032.msg511157.html#msg511157
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11031.msg511159.html#msg511159
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11031.msg511162.html#msg511162
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11031.msg514232.html#msg514232
If Jeremy did it
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10510.msg487946.html#msg487946
Sheila's movements [scroll down the thread for more posts]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10289.msg480128.html#msg480128
The evidence of Robert Boutflour, Jnr.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg489160.html#msg489160
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489287.html#msg489287
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489292.html#msg489292
At least two silencers were seized and examined
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10591.msg490666.html#msg490666
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10591.msg490676.html#msg490676
The burn marks on Nevill's back
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11038.msg512303.html#msg512303
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11038.msg512350.html#msg512350
Dr. Craig
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509669.html#msg509669
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509677.html#msg509677
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509681.html#msg509681
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509683.html#msg509683
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509687.html#msg509687
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509687.html#msg509687
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509724.html#msg509724
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509724.html#msg509724
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509759.html#msg509759
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11007.msg509791.html#msg509791
2. SCENARIOS
Sheila scenario [scroll down the thread for more posts]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10289.msg480128.html#msg480128
A further comment on my Sheila scenario
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482584.html#msg482584
Developing a Sheila scenario
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501692.html#msg501692
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501690.html#msg501690
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501679.html#msg501679
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10404.msg485392.html#msg485392
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10872.msg501684.html#msg501684
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510824.html#msg510824
General problems with a Sheila scenario
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.msg484712.html#msg484712
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484945.html#msg484945
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490059.html#msg490059
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10697.msg493954.html#msg493954
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg501459.html#msg501459
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg501461.html#msg501461
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502501.html#msg502501
A Jeremy Scenario
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10975.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510330.html#msg510330
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510331.html#msg510331
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510339.html#msg510339
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510349.html#msg510349
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510386.html#msg510386
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510414.html#msg510414
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510419.html#msg510419
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11013.msg510424.html#msg510424
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484953.html#msg484953
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10375.msg484456.html#msg484456
Problems with a Jeremy and Sheila scenario
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10276.msg484709.html#msg484709
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10404.msg485402.html#msg485402
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10510.msg488007.html#msg488007
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10510.msg488008.html#msg488008
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10510.msg488015.html#msg488015
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490663.html#msg490663
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10339.msg482547.html#msg482547
3. DISCUSSION OF BALLISTICS THEORIES
How many shots were fired?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10973.msg508162.html#msg508162
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10975.msg508377.html#msg508377
Interior Ballistic Markings
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10520.0.html
The fragmented bullet theory
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491367.html#msg491367
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491369.html#msg491369
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491427.html#msg491427
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491530.html#msg491530
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491537.html#msg491537
Response to Bubo Bubo re: the examination of fragmented bullets
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10671.msg493110.html#msg493110
Response to Bubo Bubo re: theory that PV20 was swopped
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494060.html#msg494060
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494067.html#msg494067
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494076.html#msg494076
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494078.html#msg494078
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494083.html#msg494083
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494084.html#msg494084
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494090.html#msg494090
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494107.html#msg494107
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494140.html#msg494140
4. DEBUNKING VARIOUS CLAIMS & THEORIES FROM THE PRO-GUILT CAMP
General debunking of typical pro-guilt arguments
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10998.msg509177.html#msg509177
The claim that for Jeremy not to be guilty, everybody else had to be lying
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10545.msg489652.html#msg489652
The claim that Jeremy drove slowly to the farmhouse
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10658.msg492891.html#msg492891
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10658.msg492902.html#msg492902
The claim that Nevill was shot in the main bedroom
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10384.msg484730.html#msg484730
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10384.msg484738.html#msg484738
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484884.html#msg484884
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484895.html#msg484895
The claim that the recorded position of the cartridge casings and spent bullets should be relied on
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484872.html#msg484872
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10386.msg484882.html#msg484882
General claims that Sheila could not have committed the massacre
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10792.msg497798.html#msg497798
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10792.msg497794.html#msg497794
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10792.msg497806.html#msg497806
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10792.msg497810.html#msg497810
The claim that Sheila had no experience with guns
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482725.html#msg482725
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482730.html#msg482730
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482744.html#msg482744
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482753.html#msg482753
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482756.html#msg482756
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482769.html#msg482769
The claim that Jeremy lied to the police about Sheila's acquaintance with guns
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482759.html#msg482759
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482764.html#msg482764
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482766.html#msg482766
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482767.html#msg482767
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482781.html#msg482781
The claim that Sheila could not have overcome Nevill
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10313.msg493532.html#msg493532
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10313.msg493529.html#msg493529
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10313.msg493536.html#msg493536
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482772.html#msg482772
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482782.html#msg482782
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10375.msg484446.html#msg484446
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10375.msg484497.html#msg484497
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10375.msg484501.html#msg484501
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10375.msg484504.html#msg484504
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10375.msg484507.html#msg484507
The claim that Sheila was too uncoordinated that night to carry out the massacre
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482776.html#msg482776
The claim that Sheila was sedated
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10313.msg481696.html#msg481696
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10313.msg481698.html#msg481698
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10384.msg484740.html#msg484740
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10946.msg505873.html#msg505873
The claim that Jeremy moved the phones around prior to or during the massacre
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10373.msg484333.html#msg484333
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10373.msg484353.html#msg484353
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10373.msg484355.html#msg484355
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10373.msg484358.html#msg484358
The claim that Jeremy behaved oddly in the aftermath
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg495757.html#msg495757
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=10539.msg495782#msg495782
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10341.msg482930.html#msg482930
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10341.msg482963.html#msg482963
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10321.msg481906.html#msg481906
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10341.msg482956.html#msg482956
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10341.msg482969.html#msg482969
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10341.msg482977.html#msg482977
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10341.msg482983.html#msg482983
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488198.html#msg488198
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488203.html#msg488203
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488213.html#msg488213
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488223.html#msg488223
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488240.html#msg488240
The claim that Sheila could not have moved around the house after the first self-inflicted shot
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10384.msg484730.html#msg484730
The claim that Julie provided information to the police that only the killer could have known
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10609.msg491262.html#msg491262
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10617.msg491390.html#msg491390
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10618.msg491394.html#msg491394
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10618.msg491397.html#msg491397
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10618.msg491399.html#msg491399
The claim that Julie Mugford acted only out of conscience
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489584.html#msg489584
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489599.html#msg489599
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489607.html#msg489607
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483602.html#msg483602
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10351.msg483672.html#msg483672
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10351.msg483679.html#msg483679
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10351.msg483684.html#msg483684
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10351.msg483686.html#msg483686
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10351.msg483687.html#msg483687
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483482.html#msg483482
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483485.html#msg483485
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483510.html#msg483510
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483517.html#msg483517
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483518.html#msg483518
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483532.html#msg483532
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483536.html#msg483536
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483538.html#msg483538
The claim Jeremy killed his family for a larger or quicker inheritance
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10777.msg496840.html#msg496840
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10777.msg496916.html#msg496916
The claim that Jeremy is/was a psychopath [a discussion with Caroline, links to key posts provided]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484263.html#msg484263
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484217.html#msg484217
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484190.html#msg484190
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg483972.html#msg483972
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484155.html#msg484155
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484225.html#msg484225
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=10360.msg484231#msg484231
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484247.html#msg484247
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484263.html#msg484263
'Touching A Murderer': deconstructing Roger Wilkes' dubious anecdote and Jane's claim that a psychiatrist diagnosed Jeremy as a psychopath
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484094.html#msg484094
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484102.html#msg484102
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484109.html#msg484109
Caroline's claim that Jeremy knew the contents of Nevill's wallet
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483754.html#msg483754
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484531.html#msg484531
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484536.html#msg484536
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483756.html#msg483756
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483758.html#msg483758
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483767.html#msg483767
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483771.html#msg483771
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg483774.html#msg483774
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484538.html#msg484538
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484550.html#msg484550
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484552.html#msg484552
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484569.html#msg484569
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484578.html#msg484578
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8228.msg484581.html#msg484581
Caroline's Last Trailer theory
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506762.html#msg506762
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506769.html#msg506769
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506771.html#msg506771
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506779.html#msg506779
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506781.html#msg506781
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506783.html#msg506783
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506792.html#msg506792
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5565.msg506819.html#msg506819
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10965.msg506908.html#msg506908
The claim that Jeremy Bamber stole diamonds from Mabel Speakman's safe
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10590.msg490933.html#msg490933
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10590.msg490934.html#msg490934
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10590.msg490937.html#msg490937
The claim that Jeremy had a deal with a newspaper, so it was OK for Julie to have a similar deal with a newspaper
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10954.msg506091.html#msg506091
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10954.msg506093.html#msg506093
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10954.msg506100.html#msg506100
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10954.msg506108.html#msg506108
5. THE PSYCHOPATHOLOGY OF SHEILA CAFFELL
The words of Dr. John Bradley, defence psychiatrist, R v Bamber [1986]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482790.html#msg482790
Factors in Sheila's psychopathology
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10159.msg487843.html#msg487843
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10159.msg487848.html#msg487848
The effect of absentee parents
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3456.msg501234.html#msg501234
Was Sheila sedated?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10290.msg480112.html#msg480112
Toxicology
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507773.html#msg507773
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507784.html#msg507784
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg507961.html#msg507961
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10974.msg508016.html#msg508016
A motive for Sheila
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10404.msg485376.html#msg485376
6. WAS THERE A 999 CALL?
The problem
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502542.html#msg502542
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10881.msg502546.html#msg502546
Nevill's Voice, Jeremy's Voice
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10298.0.html
Why Nevill Could Not Have Made A 999 Call: A Logical Case
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10300.0.html
The police logs
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10662.msg494142.html#msg494142
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10663.msg494259.html#msg494259
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10663.msg494284.html#msg494284
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg495753.html#msg495753
7. COLIN CAFFELL
Comments on Colin Caffell's personality and character
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482630.html#msg482630
Questions about Colin Caffell and his culpability
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10342.msg482933.html#msg482933
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10339.msg482582.html#msg482582
Tom, Ben And Lorraine Making Light Of The White House Farm Murders
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=10934.msg505713#msg505713
Did Colin Caffell Contribute To Sheila's Schizophrenia?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10336.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10339.msg482589.html#msg482589
Julie, Colin And Thoughts On Death
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10928.0.html
8. DISCLOSURE ISSUES
The Disclosure Issue
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10900.0.html
Disclosure at trial
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10610.msg491165.html#msg491165
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10610.msg491168.html#msg491168
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10610.msg491176.html#msg491176
Post about PII
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10409.msg485791.html#msg485791
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10766.msg496337.html#msg496337
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10766.msg496340.html#msg496340
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10766.msg496341.html#msg496341
Photograph of D. I. Ronald Cook. Is He At The Crime Scene?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10309.0.html
Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10289.0.html
Scope of Non-Documentary Evidence
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10299.0.html
Is there a crime scene video?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2178.msg483957.html#msg483957
Should Jeremy Bamber make disclosures?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg501277.html#msg501277
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg501311.html#msg501311
9. WAS JEREMY BAMBER FRAMED?
Laplace's principle
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489293.html#msg489293
Weighing up the plausibility of a conspiracy
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg497330.html#msg497330
Industrial Frame Department
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10891.0.html
Reply against objections to the theory that the silencer was planted evidence
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10904.msg504273.html#msg504273
The evidence needed
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10641.msg492365.html#msg492365
Applying Vital Interests theory from international relations analogously to true crime
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10304.msg480739.html#msg480739
The importance of research
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10304.msg480744.html#msg480744
A letter from Robert Boutflour, Jnr.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10973.msg507600.html#msg507600
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10973.msg507608.html#msg507608
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10973.msg507786.html#msg507786
Did the family have a sufficient financial motive?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490167.html#msg490167
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490171.html#msg490171
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490180.html#msg490180
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490183.html#msg490183
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490186.html#msg490186
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10590.msg490665.html#msg490665
Company governance after the trial
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg501418.html#msg501418
Sheila's blood
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10392.msg485060.html#msg485060
Was the silencer planted?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10878.msg502376.html#msg502376
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490122.html#msg490122
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491782.html#msg491782
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491791.html#msg491791
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491794.html#msg491794
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491810.html#msg491810
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491821.html#msg491821
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491822.html#msg491822
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491824.html#msg491824
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10641.msg492365.html#msg492365
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10904.msg504273.html#msg504273
The Blue Socks Mystery: A Look At Bubo Bubo's Theory
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10882.0.html
The plausibility of framing Jeremy as an innocent man
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg490105.html#msg490105
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg491817.html#msg491817
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10160.msg492323.html#msg492323
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10160.msg492328.html#msg492328
The theory that Sheila was shot by the police
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488509.html#msg488509
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488643.html#msg488643
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488676.html#msg488676
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488680.html#msg488680
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488722.html#msg488722
10. NEVILL'S CULPABILITY IN THE INCIDENT
The relevance and significance of the issue
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485523.html#msg485523
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485524.html#msg485524
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485542.html#msg485542
General comment on moral culpability
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10276.msg484771.html#msg484771
Was Nevill a responsible gun owner?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485492.html#msg485492
The evidence of PC Dryland
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg484612.html#msg484612
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485446.html#msg485446
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485466.html#msg485466
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485470.html#msg485470
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485473.html#msg485473
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485485.html#msg485485
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485489.html#msg485489
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485497.html#msg485497
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485500.html#msg485500
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485501.html#msg485501
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485527.html#msg485527
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485530.html#msg485530
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485537.html#msg485537
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485541.html#msg485541
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485569.html#msg485569
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485571.html#msg485571
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485701.html#msg485701
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485702.html#msg485702
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485709.html#msg485709
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485787.html#msg485787
The storage of the Bamber and Pargeter arsenals in the farmhouse
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485471.html#msg485471
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485487.html#msg485487
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485494.html#msg485494
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485505.html#msg485505
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485509.html#msg485509
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485511.html#msg485511
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485515.html#msg485515
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485517.html#msg485517
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485570.html#msg485570
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485576.html#msg485576
The significance of Robert Boutflour, Jnr.'s evidence
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485449.html#msg485449
The Firearms Certificate For The Murder Weapon And Related Statements
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10420.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485578.html#msg485578
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485586.html#msg485586
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg485829.html#msg485829
11. THREADS AND POSTS CONCERNING JULIE MUGFORD
The case against Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg495735.html#msg495735
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10964.msg507518.html#msg507518
The Refutation Problem
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg495510.html#msg495510
The defence dilemma
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10394.msg485158.html#msg485158
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10408.msg485707.html#msg485707
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10877.msg502007.html#msg502007
The elephant in the room
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489612.html#msg489612
Jeremy's contradictory actions
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10672.msg493092.html#msg493092
The words of Viscount Buckmaster
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10672.msg493108.html#msg493108
The possibilities in summary
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10685.msg493629.html#msg493629
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10982.msg507923.html#msg507923
Did we see Julie Mugford's diary?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10885.msg503126.html#msg503126
Can Julie Mugford be relied on?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10958.msg506444.html#msg506444
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10958.msg506447.html#msg506447
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10958.msg506449.html#msg506449
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10958.msg506452.html#msg506452
Outline of a possible scenario in which Julie lies
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10982.msg507923.html#msg507923
What really happened?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10685.msg493696.html#msg493696
The inevitability of Julie Mugford as an accomplice - assuming Jeremy Bamber is guilty
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488483.html#msg488483
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482948.html#msg482948
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482955.html#msg482955
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10337.msg482959.html#msg482959
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488510.html#msg488510
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10919.msg505204.html#msg505204
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10919.msg505223.html#msg505223
Joint enterprise law and Julie
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10755.msg496164.html#msg496164
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10755.msg496166.html#msg496166
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10755.msg496171.html#msg496171
Why didn't Julie mention the silencer?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482131.html#msg482131
Comments on Jeremy and Julie's relationship, and Julie's motivations
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482067.html#msg482067
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482084.html#msg482084
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482100.html#msg482100
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482111.html#msg482111
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482124.html#msg482124
Was there a threat to Julie Mugford's teaching career?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10352.msg483641.html#msg483641
Comment on Julie and June
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482104.html#msg482104
Julie's diary
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10333.msg482221.html#msg482221
The role of Liz Rimington
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10604.msg491005.html#msg491005
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg494950.html#msg494950
The Hyper-Reality Of Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10943.0.html
A series of posts on the behaviour and culpability of Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10919.msg505201.html#msg505201
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10919.msg505204.html#msg505204
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10919.msg505221.html#msg505221
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10919.msg505223.html#msg505223
A Problem With Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10351.0.html
Who told the police? [reply to Roch]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10604.msg491005.html#msg491005
Did Julie Mugford Receive A Police Caution?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10294.0.html
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488477.html#msg488477
An Alternative Theory Regarding Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10296.0.html
Reply to JackieD:
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10325.msg482984.html#msg482984
Was Julie Mugford Manipulative?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10601.0.html
Was Julie involved? Issues with the phone calls
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10294.msg480244.html#msg480244
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10294.msg480251.html#msg480251
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10294.msg480252.html#msg480252
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10294.msg480253.html#msg480253
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10294.msg480257.html#msg480257
Julie Mugford and the News of the World
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10408.msg485895.html#msg485895
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10685.msg493695.html#msg493695
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10772.msg496666.html#msg496666
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10772.msg496819.html#msg496819
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10772.msg496830.html#msg496830
Julie Mugford and the court
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10877.msg501959.html#msg501959
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10874.msg501985.html#msg501985
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10874.msg501990.html#msg501990
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10874.msg501993.html#msg501993
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10874.msg501994.html#msg501994
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10877.msg501999.html#msg501999
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488467.html#msg488467
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10513.msg488477.html#msg488477
Julie, Colin And Thoughts On Death
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10928.0.html
Making excuses for Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10919.msg505221.html#msg505221
12. THE PSYCHOLOGY AND MOTIVATIONS OF JEREMY BAMBER
Jeremy's intellect
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509873.html#msg509873
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11011.msg509884.html#msg509884
Jeremy's character
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489566.html#msg489566
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489572.html#msg489572
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.msg489582.html#msg489582
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10403.msg489520.html#msg489520
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic
-
That post must have took some doing. Certainly a fiddly enterprise.
-
It certainly contains all the information needed to make a start on a much needed honest documentary
-
Basically grounds for 'reasonable doubt' are all in the threads QC has created. Which he has kindly spent hours getting together in one thread for our benefit. What a guy.
If only trials could last 35 years. The jury would be so numb they would all aquit.
Any guilters on the forum are just trolling & spammers.
-
Basically grounds for 'reasonable doubt' are all in the threads QC has created. Which he has kindly spent hours getting together in one thread for our benefit. What a guy.
If only trials could last 35 years. The jury would be so numb they would all aquit.
Any guilters on the forum are just trolling & spammers.
Somebody is very insecure.
-
That post must have took some doing. Certainly a fiddly enterprise.
Most of which is completely irrelevant to the case 36 years on.
-
I have collected together links to threads I have started on the Forum, putting them in order of priority. Key posts from threads started by others have also been added ad hoc and more will be added at a later date, when I have time.
I do explore the pro-guilt case in some posts, but overall my contribution to the Forum is to make the case for 'Not Guilty due to reasonable doubt', as that is my working conclusion about the case.
For those who sneer at the Reasonable Doubt position or argue that it is amoral, I quote these words of my own (taken from a response to Roch in the thread 'Some Reasons I Think He Did It & Grounds For Reasonable Doubt', linked further down):
I stand by the words of Sir Frederick Lawrence, Q.C., from his closing speech to the jury in R v Adams. These words should be commended to every jury in England:
"Justice is of paramount consideration here, and the only way in which this can be done is for you to judge the matter on what you have heard in this court and in this court only.
What you read in the papers, what you hear in the train, what you hear in the cafés and restaurants, what your friends and relations come and tell you; rumour, gossip, all the rest of it, may be so wrong.
The possibility of guilt is not enough, suspicion is not enough, probability is not enough, likelihood is not. A criminal matter is not a question of balancing probabilities and deciding in favour of a probability.
If the accusation is not proved beyond reasonable doubt against the man accused in the dock, then by law he is entitled to be acquitted, because that is the way our rules work.
It is no concession to given him the benefit of the doubt. He is entitled by law to a verdict of not guilty."
I finally offer you the words of John Mortimer's Rumpole: his speech in defence of the English attitude to law and what he calls the Golden Thread of criminal justice, the burden of proof:
INDEX OF THREADS AND POSTS:
1. THREADS PUTTING THE REASONABLE DOUBT CASE
Elevator Pitch [Campaign Team take note!]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg483838.html#msg483838
Brief Thoughts On The Case [note: my first substantial post to the Forum]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10290.0.html
Grounds For Reasonable Doubt
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10627.0.html
Some Reasons I Think He Did It & Grounds For Reasonable Doubt
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10319.0.html
Applying Occam's Razor
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10339.0.html
What Happened In The Kitchen?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10302.0.html
How Did Jeremy Move To And From The Farmhouse? Some Thoughts & Problems...
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10348.0.html
Summary Of Problems With The Scratch Marks
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10306.0.html
The Baffling Mystery Of The Blood In The Silencer
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10304.0.html
Why Weren't There More Fingerprints On The Rifle?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10406.0.html
The Sticky Silencer
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10308.0.html
Police Handling Of the Bamber Arsenal
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10292.0.html
The Silenced Rifle Did Not Fit Inside The Gun Cupboard
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.0.html
Jeremy's Legal Representation At Trial: Some Brief Thoughts
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10362.0.html
2. DISCUSSION OF BALLISTICS THEORIES
Interior Ballistic Markings
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10520.0.html
Response to Bubo Bubo re: the examination of fragmented bullets
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10671.msg493110.html#msg493110
Response to Bubo Bubo re: theory that PV20 was swopped [multiple responses - scroll down the thread]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg494060.html#msg494060
3. DID NEVILL DIAL 999?
Nevill's Voice, Jeremy's Voice
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10298.0.html
Why Nevill Could Not Have Made A 999 Call: A Logical Case
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10300.0.html
4. COLLIN CAFFELL
Did Colin Caffell Contribute To Sheila's Schizophrenia?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10336.0.html
5. DISCLOSURE ISSUES
Photograph of D. I. Ronald Cook. Is He At The Crime Scene?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10309.0.html
Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10289.0.html
Scope of Non-Documentary Evidence
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10299.0.html
6. WAS JEREMY FRAMED?
Applying Vital Interests theory from international relations analogously to true crime
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10304.msg480739.html#msg480739
The importance of research
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10304.msg480744.html#msg480744
The Blue Socks Mystery: A Look At Bubo Bubo's Theory
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10882.0.html
Industrial Frame Department
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10891.0.html
7. NEVILL'S CULPABILITY IN THE INCIDENT
Posts on the question of Nevill's culpability [multiple posts - continue to scroll through thread]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9129.msg484612.html#msg484612
The Firearms Certificate For The Murder Weapon And Related Statements
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10420.0.html
8. CRITIQUE OF POLYGRAPHOLOGY (I.E. 'LIE DETECTOR TESTS')
Reply to JackieD:
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10325.msg481958.html#msg481958
9. THREADS AND POSTS CONCERNING JULIE MUGFORD
A Problem With Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10351.0.html
Who told the police? [reply to Roch]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10604.msg491005.html#msg491005
Did Julie Mugford Receive A Police Caution?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10294.0.html
An Alternative Theory Regarding Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10296.0.html
Reply to JackieD:
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10325.msg482984.html#msg482984
Was Julie Mugford Manipulative?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10601.0.html
Rod Stewart – Tonight's The Night (Gonna Be Alright)
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10320.0.html
10. THE PSYCHOLOGY AND MOTIVATIONS OF JEREMY BAMBER
Is/Was Jeremy Bamber A Predator?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10763.0.html
A Photograph of Nevill
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10312.0.html
Jeremy is not a psychopath [a discussion with Caroline, links to key posts provided]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484263.html#msg484263
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484217.html#msg484217
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484190.html#msg484190
'Touching A Murderer': deconstructing Roger Wilkes' dubious anecdote and Jane's claim that a psychiatrist diagnosed Jeremy as a psychopath
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484094.html#msg484094
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10360.msg484102.html#msg484102
Question For Mike [about Jeremy's cell]
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10786.0.html
Comparing the Criminal Psychology of the McCanns, Jeremy Bamber & Jimmy Savile
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10602.0.html
11. GENERAL ISSUES
Where Was The Gun Cupboard?
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10301.0.html
12. MEDIA
The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10539.0.html
The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 2
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10866.0.html
Yvonne Hartley, Lockdown Log: Why I believe Jeremy Bamber is Innocent
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10321.0.html
Jeremy Bamber In His Own Words
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10766.0.html
Podcasts and media about Julie Mugford
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10767.0.html
Podcasts and media on the case - general
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10798.0.html
A thread for Shaun Attwood podcasts on the Jeremy Bamber case
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10751.0.html
A Podcast On The White House Farm Murders
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10356.0.html
13. IN MEMORIAM THREADS
In Memoriam: 35th. anniversary (2020)
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10322.0.html
On The 36th. Anniversary: For the Victims
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10734.0.html
A rebuttal to Steve_uk's attack on the 35th. anniversary thread
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10602.msg490948.html#msg490948
14. GENERAL INTEREST
Closing Speech of Sir Frederick Geoffrey Lawrence, Q.C. in R v Adams
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10311.0.html
Opinion on Louis Theroux
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10761.msg496067.html#msg496067
Essex Police Virtual Museum Tour
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10419.0.html
The City of London and Magna Carta - Anthony Arlidge QC
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10318.0.html
15. FORUM PERSONALITIES AND JOKE/BANTER THREADS
Rumpole
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10423.0.html
Classic Campion
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10310.0.html
Why Adam Trolls This Forum
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10633.0.html
Adam's response to the above:
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10895.0.html
What's the objective of the above?
I scanned the list and picked up on the thread re the rifle with silencer not fitting in the gun cupboard. Bamber never claimed this. You're wrong about this so what else is wrong?
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Most of which is completely irrelevant to the case 36 years on.
Its quite comical when you read it, that’s just his 4% wait while he reveals his 96% he gives a whacking great list about reasonable doubt, but still holds a 96% view he’s guilty.
i). Julie Mugford's evidence cannot be considered reliable because the account she gave of the killings is wrong. It could be that Jeremy is guilty and gave her this account as a way of discrediting her, but we can only deal with the evidence we have. You also have ask why Jeremy would tell her anything. It simply doesn't make sense. Furthermore, large parts of Mugford's behaviour make no rational sense at all. I don't necessarily doubt that Jeremy and Julie had certain conversations, but the bottom line for me is that it is just as plausible that Jeremy was joking with her as it is that he was being serious.
(ii). I believe Julie Mugford misled the court about her dealings with a tabloid newspaper. I simply cannot believe she had not entered into a contract, oral or written, prior to giving evidence.
(iii). The jury were also clearly misled on Julie Mugford's criminal record, and although this was a minor point, I believe it was significant and I think the police and prosecution acted intentionally to mislead the court in this respect.
(iv). Sheila was shot at very different angles, which is apparent when you triangulate it. On the face of it, this establishes Jeremy's guilt, due to the belief that Jeremy adjusted the rifle after realising Sheila was not dead after the first shot. But on further reflection you have to ask how, if Jeremy is guilty, this is consistent with the pathologist's evidence. Dr. Vanezis says Sheila fell back after the second shot. That can't be true if Jeremy did it. Mr Ismail's evidence, which is inconsistent with Dr Vanezis', does not assist on this point and is wrong anyway.
(v). The lack of post-mortem rigidity (rigor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed in the witness statement of Ron Cook, who attended the body and moved Sheila's arm.
(vi). The apparent lack of lividity (livor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed by the crime scene photographs.
(vii). Jeremy must have gone to and from the farmhouse on foot. For a number of reasons, I find it doubtful he could have accomplished this in the time frame assumed. By push bike or car was too risky for somebody who supposedly planned the act, because he could have run into somebody or easily been seen.
(viii). There is none of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. I think this is one of the biggest problems for the prosecution. It means that the incident sequence/choreography is thrown all over the place unless you either ignore the lack of Nevill's blood in that position or you switch around the position of the spent cartridges. Otherwise, it makes more sense if Sheila is the killer and the phone call that Jeremy claims he received is consistent with a Sheila choreography. For Jeremy to be the killer, he would have had to shoot Nevill on the main stairs, but that stairway is steep and narrow and it just doesn't seem likely to me.
(ix). There is also the question of where Sheila was shot by Jeremy and when and how he managed to subdue her without incurring injuries or leaving Sheila with obvious injuries. The prosecution explain this by trying to say that Sheila was sedated, but we have no evidence that she was sedated. It's also not explained why Sheila would not react if, as the prosecution claim and rest on, a mayhemic and chaotic assault was taking place in the house only yards from where she was sleeping. I don't accept that Jeremy, June and Nevill (if he was upstairs) would have agreed to be silent or extra quiet just so as not to wake up Sheila.
(x). The blood and DNA evidence remains inconclusive:
(a). It has never been established that Sheila's blood was found in the silencer. There is even a possibility is was not human blood at all.
(b). The jury at trial were misdirected by the judge on the blood evidence.
(c). DNA testing was carried out on the silencer in the 1990s, but the DNA samples were not blood-based, thus the findings cannot be considered probative. Remember that these people lived at this house, or in Sheila's case, stayed there quite often, and the silencer could have been left around, which means there was a possibility of innocent contamination. In any case, the findings were scientifically inconclusive.
(xi). I believe at least two silencers were examined by the FSS and recorded as bearing two sets of incriminating evidence.
(xii). I do not believe the scratch marks on the underside of the mantelpiece of the aga oven could have been made by the silencer while it was attached to the rifle.
(xiii). The rifle pull-through test was completely unscientific and unreliable. The rifle should have been subject to either chemical testing or been dismantled by machinists. But if we accept Fletcher's findings at face value, then we have to believe either that the blood in the silencer has defied the laws of physics or there is some physical argument rooted in tension dynamics that explains the lack of blood in the rifle.
(xiv). The chain of custody of the silencer was completely unsatisfactory. First, the police failed to find and/or record and remove the silencer immediately at the scene, despite (they claimed) a thorough search. Then there was a failure to isolate the exhibit itself, and the exhibit was tampered with, and potentially valuable forensic evidence was lost. The officer who took the evidence away was inebriated.
(xv). The distribution of blood in the silencer is consistent with contamination. The relatives had the means, motive and opportunity to contaminate the silencer. That, I stress, is not to say they did contaminate the silencer and I do not make that allegation - nor do I need to, as we only need doubt.
(xvi). The fingerprint evidence on the rifle, collected and recorded by Ron Cook, is more consistent with Sheila as the killer. The lack of prints, with only two or three found, means that somebody wiped the rifle. The person who wiped the rifle was the killer. Jeremy had no motive to wipe the rifle, as it was effectively his rifle anyway, so any prints found could not incriminate him. Sheila did have a motive to wipe the rifle, if she had just used it to kill her twins and parents, as she would not want to use it on herself if it had their blood on and/or she may have ritualistically cleaned it.
(xvii). Jeremy's behaviour after the incident is often cited as a further reason to suspect him, but these same people also want us to believe Jeremy coldly planned the whole thing. Would a cold-blooded mass murderer conduct himself as Jeremy did? Furthermore, a lot of the behaviours that are seen as suspicious could be interpreted the opposite way. Jeremy was obviously acting at the funeral, but the funeral was being broadcast on the TV in front of millions. What was he supposed to do? Jeremy started hurriedly selling the valuable contents of the farmhouse. Certainly this could be considered tactless and insensitive, but somebody had to attend to the estate and selling the contents is the obvious thing to do and would the expected course of action of an innocent person. A guilty person might have been more cautious.
(xviii). Jeremy, who is supposed to have planned it all out, answered police questions freely and openly. Wouldn't a cold-blooded inheritance killer who had just committed mass murder have been a bit more reticent and cautious? It should be stressed that there is a right to silence and an innocent person could well remain silent under such circumstances (indeed, that is normally the advice received from lawyers), but Jeremy was taking a big risk as a guilty man answering police questions and giving away all that information. He had already given witness statements. Why not just ask the police to refer back to those?
(xix). In my view, the inheritance motive falls down, mainly to do with the legal and practical complexities of the estate. Jeremy was not a lawyer, but as a farmer's son, and having regular conversations with Nevill, he would have been aware of a lot of these issues. I appreciate that a guilty Jeremy would have had in mind getting his hands on family money, but it was not a simple matter of killing his family and then receiving loads of ready cash. He must have known this.
(xx). The police destroyed a lot of evidence immediately at the scene and then later in the mid-1990s, important evidence was destroyed.
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Its quite comical when you read it, that’s just his 4% wait while he reveals his 96% he gives a whacking great list about reasonable doubt, but still holds a 96% view he’s guilty.
Who the fook cares?
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Who the fook cares?
Well no one really, but I’ve just got rid of my Manager (sacked) so my team is playing a different system now 👍
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It certainly contains all the information needed to make a start on a much needed honest documentary
I think the public may have become sated by the number of documentaries/crime programmes which have given air-time to the Bamber case. Only the genuinely interested will watch seriously. It may be a case of preaching to the converted.
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It certainly contains all the information needed to make a start on a much needed honest documentary
If you want to overturn Bamber's conviction you need FRESH evidence or legal argument capable of impressing 3 learned appeal court judges, none of whom give a flying fig about documentaires or the court of public opinion.
What's you definition of an "honest documentary"? Please bear in mind libel law.
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If you want to overturn Bamber's conviction you need FRESH evidence or legal argument capable of impressing 3 learned appeal court judges, none of whom give a flying fig about documentaires or the court of public opinion.
What's you definition of an "honest documentary"? Please bear in mind libel law.
If libel law was a problem, we'd know about it already. They wouldn't dare because they know what would come out.
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If libel law was a problem, we'd know about it already. They wouldn't dare because they know what would come out.
Sorry matey you need to spell it out.
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Its quite comical when you read it, that’s just his 4% wait while he reveals his 96% he gives a whacking great list about reasonable doubt, but still holds a 96% view he’s guilty.
i). Julie Mugford's evidence cannot be considered reliable because the account she gave of the killings is wrong. It could be that Jeremy is guilty and gave her this account as a way of discrediting her, but we can only deal with the evidence we have. You also have ask why Jeremy would tell her anything. It simply doesn't make sense. Furthermore, large parts of Mugford's behaviour make no rational sense at all. I don't necessarily doubt that Jeremy and Julie had certain conversations, but the bottom line for me is that it is just as plausible that Jeremy was joking with her as it is that he was being serious.
(ii). I believe Julie Mugford misled the court about her dealings with a tabloid newspaper. I simply cannot believe she had not entered into a contract, oral or written, prior to giving evidence.
(iii). The jury were also clearly misled on Julie Mugford's criminal record, and although this was a minor point, I believe it was significant and I think the police and prosecution acted intentionally to mislead the court in this respect.
(iv). Sheila was shot at very different angles, which is apparent when you triangulate it. On the face of it, this establishes Jeremy's guilt, due to the belief that Jeremy adjusted the rifle after realising Sheila was not dead after the first shot. But on further reflection you have to ask how, if Jeremy is guilty, this is consistent with the pathologist's evidence. Dr. Vanezis says Sheila fell back after the second shot. That can't be true if Jeremy did it. Mr Ismail's evidence, which is inconsistent with Dr Vanezis', does not assist on this point and is wrong anyway.
(v). The lack of post-mortem rigidity (rigor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed in the witness statement of Ron Cook, who attended the body and moved Sheila's arm.
(vi). The apparent lack of lividity (livor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed by the crime scene photographs.
(vii). Jeremy must have gone to and from the farmhouse on foot. For a number of reasons, I find it doubtful he could have accomplished this in the time frame assumed. By push bike or car was too risky for somebody who supposedly planned the act, because he could have run into somebody or easily been seen.
(viii). There is none of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. I think this is one of the biggest problems for the prosecution. It means that the incident sequence/choreography is thrown all over the place unless you either ignore the lack of Nevill's blood in that position or you switch around the position of the spent cartridges. Otherwise, it makes more sense if Sheila is the killer and the phone call that Jeremy claims he received is consistent with a Sheila choreography. For Jeremy to be the killer, he would have had to shoot Nevill on the main stairs, but that stairway is steep and narrow and it just doesn't seem likely to me.
(ix). There is also the question of where Sheila was shot by Jeremy and when and how he managed to subdue her without incurring injuries or leaving Sheila with obvious injuries. The prosecution explain this by trying to say that Sheila was sedated, but we have no evidence that she was sedated. It's also not explained why Sheila would not react if, as the prosecution claim and rest on, a mayhemic and chaotic assault was taking place in the house only yards from where she was sleeping. I don't accept that Jeremy, June and Nevill (if he was upstairs) would have agreed to be silent or extra quiet just so as not to wake up Sheila.
(x). The blood and DNA evidence remains inconclusive:
(a). It has never been established that Sheila's blood was found in the silencer. There is even a possibility is was not human blood at all.
(b). The jury at trial were misdirected by the judge on the blood evidence.
(c). DNA testing was carried out on the silencer in the 1990s, but the DNA samples were not blood-based, thus the findings cannot be considered probative. Remember that these people lived at this house, or in Sheila's case, stayed there quite often, and the silencer could have been left around, which means there was a possibility of innocent contamination. In any case, the findings were scientifically inconclusive.
(xi). I believe at least two silencers were examined by the FSS and recorded as bearing two sets of incriminating evidence.
(xii). I do not believe the scratch marks on the underside of the mantelpiece of the aga oven could have been made by the silencer while it was attached to the rifle.
(xiii). The rifle pull-through test was completely unscientific and unreliable. The rifle should have been subject to either chemical testing or been dismantled by machinists. But if we accept Fletcher's findings at face value, then we have to believe either that the blood in the silencer has defied the laws of physics or there is some physical argument rooted in tension dynamics that explains the lack of blood in the rifle.
(xiv). The chain of custody of the silencer was completely unsatisfactory. First, the police failed to find and/or record and remove the silencer immediately at the scene, despite (they claimed) a thorough search. Then there was a failure to isolate the exhibit itself, and the exhibit was tampered with, and potentially valuable forensic evidence was lost. The officer who took the evidence away was inebriated.
(xv). The distribution of blood in the silencer is consistent with contamination. The relatives had the means, motive and opportunity to contaminate the silencer. That, I stress, is not to say they did contaminate the silencer and I do not make that allegation - nor do I need to, as we only need doubt.
(xvi). The fingerprint evidence on the rifle, collected and recorded by Ron Cook, is more consistent with Sheila as the killer. The lack of prints, with only two or three found, means that somebody wiped the rifle. The person who wiped the rifle was the killer. Jeremy had no motive to wipe the rifle, as it was effectively his rifle anyway, so any prints found could not incriminate him. Sheila did have a motive to wipe the rifle, if she had just used it to kill her twins and parents, as she would not want to use it on herself if it had their blood on and/or she may have ritualistically cleaned it.
(xvii). Jeremy's behaviour after the incident is often cited as a further reason to suspect him, but these same people also want us to believe Jeremy coldly planned the whole thing. Would a cold-blooded mass murderer conduct himself as Jeremy did? Furthermore, a lot of the behaviours that are seen as suspicious could be interpreted the opposite way. Jeremy was obviously acting at the funeral, but the funeral was being broadcast on the TV in front of millions. What was he supposed to do? Jeremy started hurriedly selling the valuable contents of the farmhouse. Certainly this could be considered tactless and insensitive, but somebody had to attend to the estate and selling the contents is the obvious thing to do and would the expected course of action of an innocent person. A guilty person might have been more cautious.
(xviii). Jeremy, who is supposed to have planned it all out, answered police questions freely and openly. Wouldn't a cold-blooded inheritance killer who had just committed mass murder have been a bit more reticent and cautious? It should be stressed that there is a right to silence and an innocent person could well remain silent under such circumstances (indeed, that is normally the advice received from lawyers), but Jeremy was taking a big risk as a guilty man answering police questions and giving away all that information. He had already given witness statements. Why not just ask the police to refer back to those?
(xix). In my view, the inheritance motive falls down, mainly to do with the legal and practical complexities of the estate. Jeremy was not a lawyer, but as a farmer's son, and having regular conversations with Nevill, he would have been aware of a lot of these issues. I appreciate that a guilty Jeremy would have had in mind getting his hands on family money, but it was not a simple matter of killing his family and then receiving loads of ready cash. He must have known this.
(xx). The police destroyed a lot of evidence immediately at the scene and then later in the mid-1990s, important evidence was destroyed.
Cheers buddy.
I will respond to QC's post above later today time permitting.
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Sorry matey you need to spell it out.
Wasn't Matey a bath wash in the 70's? It rings a bell. What would anybody libel anybody else on?
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Wasn't Matey a bath wash in the 70's? It rings a bell. What would anybody libel anybody else on?
Yes but not as much fun as crazy foam!
Well JackieD seems to have a thing about the former Ms Mugford and to a lesser extent Mrs Eaton both of whom were prosecution witnesses. Prog makers would need to tread carefully.
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QC -V-QT
i). Julie Mugford's evidence cannot be considered reliable because the account she gave of the killings is wrong. It could be that Jeremy is guilty and gave her this account as a way of discrediting her, but we can only deal with the evidence we have. You also have ask why Jeremy would tell her anything. It simply doesn't make sense. Furthermore, large parts of Mugford's behaviour make no rational sense at all. I don't necessarily doubt that Jeremy and Julie had certain conversations, but the bottom line for me is that it is just as plausible that Jeremy was joking with her as it is that he was being serious.
The trial judge warned the jury about the reliability of former Ms Mugord's evidence so unlikely they put much weight on it. The defence had copies of all her witness statements so were able to challenge.
(ii). I believe Julie Mugford misled the court about her dealings with a tabloid newspaper. I simply cannot believe she had not entered into a contract, oral or written, prior to giving evidence.
No knowledge of.
(iii). The jury were also clearly misled on Julie Mugford's criminal record, and although this was a minor point, I believe it was significant and I think the police and prosecution acted intentionally to mislead the court in this respect.
Trial judge warned jury about the reliability of former Ms Mugford's evidence so unlikely they put much weight on it.
344. When the judge dealt with this aspect of the matter in his summing up (Transcript page 19C), he said:
"It is the defendant's case, of course, that Julie Mugford's evidence in this case is fabricated, and that she is a brazen, blatant liar, so Mr Rivlin introduced the matter of her previous cheque offences in order to suggest to you then that it was shown that she has been dishonest in the past and so that you can bear in mind that part of her character when assessing whether to believe her not on the evidence she has given in this trial. That is the degree to which that evidence is relevant. Of course, the fact that a person has committed some offence, or has at some time lied in the past, in no way proves that they can never again tell the truth and you might think particularly so, on oath in a murder trial. It does not prove that at all. It is merely there for you to have in mind when you come to weigh up her evidence.
(iv). Sheila was shot at very different angles, which is apparent when you triangulate it. On the face of it, this establishes Jeremy's guilt, due to the belief that Jeremy adjusted the rifle after realising Sheila was not dead after the first shot. But on further reflection you have to ask how, if Jeremy is guilty, this is consistent with the pathologist's evidence. Dr. Vanezis says Sheila fell back after the second shot. That can't be true if Jeremy did it. Mr Ismail's evidence, which is inconsistent with Dr Vanezis', does not assist on this point and is wrong anyway.
Defence pathologist, Prof Knight, made the point at trial that Sheila's gunshot wounds were the only ones inflicted upwards. What other point, if any, are you endeavouring to make?
(v). The lack of post-mortem rigidity (rigor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed in the witness statement of Ron Cook, who attended the body and moved Sheila's arm.
How does the fact DI Cook lifted Sheila's arm to enable DC Bird to photograph bloodstains indicate a lack of rigidity?
(vi). The apparent lack of lividity (livor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed by the crime scene photographs.
If what your seeing in authentic images is correct, relevant and capable of assisting the defence then how come Prof Knight for the defence overlooked?
(vii). Jeremy must have gone to and from the farmhouse on foot. For a number of reasons, I find it doubtful he could have accomplished this in the time frame assumed. By push bike or car was too risky for somebody who supposedly planned the act, because he could have run into somebody or easily been seen.
Must he? The fact you are doubtful about something means fook all in the grand scheme of things. How do you intend proving how he got there and back?
(viii). There is none of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. I think this is one of the biggest problems for the prosecution. It means that the incident sequence/choreography is thrown all over the place unless you either ignore the lack of Nevill's blood in that position or you switch around the position of the spent cartridges. Otherwise, it makes more sense if Sheila is the killer and the phone call that Jeremy claims he received is consistent with a Sheila choreography. For Jeremy to be the killer, he would have had to shoot Nevill on the main stairs, but that stairway is steep and narrow and it just doesn't seem likely to me.
Prof Knight for the defence at trial told the court there's a delay of a few seconds between wounds producing blood as the blood vessels go into shock and contract. Why wound those at the scene on 7th Aug be moving cartridge cases around? This was all adjudicated on at trial. Ed Lawson QC challenged Macolm Fletcher who confirmed Mr Bamber's upstairs gunshot wounds were all inflicted in the bedroom.
(ix). There is also the question of where Sheila was shot by Jeremy and when and how he managed to subdue her without incurring injuries or leaving Sheila with obvious injuries. The prosecution explain this by trying to say that Sheila was sedated, but we have no evidence that she was sedated. It's also not explained why Sheila would not react if, as the prosecution claim and rest on, a mayhemic and chaotic assault was taking place in the house only yards from where she was sleeping. I don't accept that Jeremy, June and Nevill (if he was upstairs) would have agreed to be silent or extra quiet just so as not to wake up Sheila.
The toxicology report provides detailed info re Sheila's meds found within her blood and liver.
(x). The blood and DNA evidence remains inconclusive:
(a). It has never been established that Sheila's blood was found in the silencer. There is even a possibility is was not human blood at all.
As far as the court at trial was concerned Sheila's blood was in the silencer based on a number of inferences ie Sheila's contact gunshot wounds, paint on silencer. The blood was most definitely human in origin as analysed by Glynnis Howard and John Hayward biologists at FSS.
(b). The jury at trial were misdirected by the judge on the blood evidence.
First appeal was centred on an unfair summing up so redundant.
(c). DNA testing was carried out on the silencer in the 1990s, but the DNA samples were not blood-based, thus the findings cannot be considered probative. Remember that these people lived at this house, or in Sheila's case, stayed there quite often, and the silencer could have been left around, which means there was a possibility of innocent contamination. In any case, the findings were scientifically inconclusive.
The DNA was all meaningless as the silencer was exposed to too much contamination in a pre DNA world.
(xi). I believe at least two silencers were examined by the FSS and recorded as bearing two sets of incriminating evidence.
You believing something means fook all. The resident barrister here has confirmed the lab examined at least 4 identical silencers so your point is?
(xii). I do not believe the scratch marks on the underside of the mantelpiece of the aga oven could have been made by the silencer while it was attached to the rifle.
So does the prosecution. At least you can agree on something.
(xiii). The rifle pull-through test was completely unscientific and unreliable. The rifle should have been subject to either chemical testing or been dismantled by machinists. But if we accept Fletcher's findings at face value, then we have to believe either that the blood in the silencer has defied the laws of physics or there is some physical argument rooted in tension dynamics that explains the lack of blood in the rifle.
Why would blood be found in the rifle barrel? The silencer contains 15 baffles and blood was only detected as far down as the 8th baffle so why would it skip the the last 7 baffles and end up in the rifle barrel?
(xiv). The chain of custody of the silencer was completely unsatisfactory. First, the police failed to find and/or record and remove the silencer immediately at the scene, despite (they claimed) a thorough search. Then there was a failure to isolate the exhibit itself, and the exhibit was tampered with, and potentially valuable forensic evidence was lost. The officer who took the evidence away was inebriated.
The court heard all about how the silencer was found.
(xv). The distribution of blood in the silencer is consistent with contamination. The relatives had the means, motive and opportunity to contaminate the silencer. That, I stress, is not to say they did contaminate the silencer and I do not make that allegation - nor do I need to, as we only need doubt.
In what way is the distribution of blood in the silencer consistent with contamination. Rivlin sowed the seeds at trial about the relatives contaminating the silencer by asking Mr Boutflour snr and jnr if they had ever had cuts to the fingers when handling. Jury still found Bamber guilty.
(xvi). The fingerprint evidence on the rifle, collected and recorded by Ron Cook, is more consistent with Sheila as the killer. The lack of prints, with only two or three found, means that somebody wiped the rifle. The person who wiped the rifle was the killer. Jeremy had no motive to wipe the rifle, as it was effectively his rifle anyway, so any prints found could not incriminate him. Sheila did have a motive to wipe the rifle, if she had just used it to kill her twins and parents, as she would not want to use it on herself if it had their blood on and/or she may have ritualistically cleaned it.
The lack of fingerprints is entirely consistent with both handling at some time for some reason.
Fingerprints are difficult to capture on certain surfaces firearms being one.
(xvii). Jeremy's behaviour after the incident is often cited as a further reason to suspect him, but these same people also want us to believe Jeremy coldly planned the whole thing. Would a cold-blooded mass murderer conduct himself as Jeremy did? Furthermore, a lot of the behaviours that are seen as suspicious could be interpreted the opposite way. Jeremy was obviously acting at the funeral, but the funeral was being broadcast on the TV in front of millions. What was he supposed to do? Jeremy started hurriedly selling the valuable contents of the farmhouse. Certainly this could be considered tactless and insensitive, but somebody had to attend to the estate and selling the contents is the obvious thing to do and would the expected course of action of an innocent person. A guilty person might have been more cautious.
Did the jury hear about any of this subjective stuff?
(xviii). Jeremy, who is supposed to have planned it all out, answered police questions freely and openly. Wouldn't a cold-blooded inheritance killer who had just committed mass murder have been a bit more reticent and cautious? It should be stressed that there is a right to silence and an innocent person could well remain silent under such circumstances (indeed, that is normally the advice received from lawyers), but Jeremy was taking a big risk as a guilty man answering police questions and giving away all that information. He had already given witness statements. Why not just ask the police to refer back to those?
Just your opinion.
(xix). In my view, the inheritance motive falls down, mainly to do with the legal and practical complexities of the estate. Jeremy was not a lawyer, but as a farmer's son, and having regular conversations with Nevill, he would have been aware of a lot of these issues. I appreciate that a guilty Jeremy would have had in mind getting his hands on family money, but it was not a simple matter of killing his family and then receiving loads of ready cash. He must have known this.
And your point is?
(xx). The police destroyed a lot of evidence immediately at the scene and then later in the mid-1990s, important evidence was destroyed.
What evidence was destroyed pre trial that might have assisted? Court of appeal 2002 took a dim view of exhibits destroyed post trial and were prepared to rule in Bamber's favour as they did to some extent with the DNA evidence.
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Yes but not as much fun as crazy foam!
Well JackieD seems to have a thing about the former Ms Mugford and to a lesser extent Mrs Eaton both of whom were prosecution witnesses. Prog makers would need to tread carefully.
I hope they both get the fame they deserve for there actions
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Sounds as though someone's now trying to act on behalf of the relatives being that they know of the submission to the CCRC ? Timing's just about right.
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I hope they both get the fame they deserve for there actions
Even if in the very unlikely event Bamber's conviction is ever overturned the chances of any repercussions for anyone found of wrongdoing are pretty slim.
Read up on the case of Stefan Kiszko where four 13 year old girls lied at trial for a laugh. The trial judge praised them for providing evidence. Stefan Kiszko was entirely innocent and when the conviction was overturned on other grounds the girls admitted they lied simply for a laught but there were no repercussions whatsoever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed
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Sounds as though someone's now trying to act on behalf of the relatives being that they know of the submission to the CCRC ? Timing's just about right.
How is anyone or anything on an internet forum going to alter the outcome of the review commissions decision? Do you honestly believe they sit around reading forums and posts by anonymous non-entities? If they visited this place it would be for comedy value not a serious research tool ::)
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QC -V-QT
i). Julie Mugford's evidence cannot be considered reliable because the account she gave of the killings is wrong. It could be that Jeremy is guilty and gave her this account as a way of discrediting her, but we can only deal with the evidence we have. You also have ask why Jeremy would tell her anything. It simply doesn't make sense. Furthermore, large parts of Mugford's behaviour make no rational sense at all. I don't necessarily doubt that Jeremy and Julie had certain conversations, but the bottom line for me is that it is just as plausible that Jeremy was joking with her as it is that he was being serious.
The trial judge warned the jury about the reliability of former Ms Mugord's evidence so unlikely they put much weight on it. The defence had copies of all her witness statements so were able to challenge.
(ii). I believe Julie Mugford misled the court about her dealings with a tabloid newspaper. I simply cannot believe she had not entered into a contract, oral or written, prior to giving evidence.
No knowledge of.
(iii). The jury were also clearly misled on Julie Mugford's criminal record, and although this was a minor point, I believe it was significant and I think the police and prosecution acted intentionally to mislead the court in this respect.
Trial judge warned jury about the reliability of former Ms Mugford's evidence so unlikely they put much weight on it.
344. When the judge dealt with this aspect of the matter in his summing up (Transcript page 19C), he said:
"It is the defendant's case, of course, that Julie Mugford's evidence in this case is fabricated, and that she is a brazen, blatant liar, so Mr Rivlin introduced the matter of her previous cheque offences in order to suggest to you then that it was shown that she has been dishonest in the past and so that you can bear in mind that part of her character when assessing whether to believe her not on the evidence she has given in this trial. That is the degree to which that evidence is relevant. Of course, the fact that a person has committed some offence, or has at some time lied in the past, in no way proves that they can never again tell the truth and you might think particularly so, on oath in a murder trial. It does not prove that at all. It is merely there for you to have in mind when you come to weigh up her evidence.
(iv). Sheila was shot at very different angles, which is apparent when you triangulate it. On the face of it, this establishes Jeremy's guilt, due to the belief that Jeremy adjusted the rifle after realising Sheila was not dead after the first shot. But on further reflection you have to ask how, if Jeremy is guilty, this is consistent with the pathologist's evidence. Dr. Vanezis says Sheila fell back after the second shot. That can't be true if Jeremy did it. Mr Ismail's evidence, which is inconsistent with Dr Vanezis', does not assist on this point and is wrong anyway.
Defence pathologist, Prof Knight, made the point at trial that Sheila's gunshot wounds were the only ones inflicted upwards. What other point, if any, are you endeavouring to make?
(v). The lack of post-mortem rigidity (rigor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed in the witness statement of Ron Cook, who attended the body and moved Sheila's arm.
How does the fact DI Cook lifted Sheila's arm to enable DC Bird to photograph bloodstains indicate a lack of rigidity?
(vi). The apparent lack of lividity (livor mortis) in Sheila's body, as confirmed by the crime scene photographs.
If what your seeing in authentic images is correct, relevant and capable of assisting the defence then how come Prof Knight for the defence overlooked?
(vii). Jeremy must have gone to and from the farmhouse on foot. For a number of reasons, I find it doubtful he could have accomplished this in the time frame assumed. By push bike or car was too risky for somebody who supposedly planned the act, because he could have run into somebody or easily been seen.
Must he? The fact you are doubtful about something means fook all in the grand scheme of things. How do you intend proving how he got there and back?
(viii). There is none of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. I think this is one of the biggest problems for the prosecution. It means that the incident sequence/choreography is thrown all over the place unless you either ignore the lack of Nevill's blood in that position or you switch around the position of the spent cartridges. Otherwise, it makes more sense if Sheila is the killer and the phone call that Jeremy claims he received is consistent with a Sheila choreography. For Jeremy to be the killer, he would have had to shoot Nevill on the main stairs, but that stairway is steep and narrow and it just doesn't seem likely to me.
Prof Knight for the defence at trial told the court there's a delay of a few seconds between wounds producing blood as the blood vessels go into shock and contract. Why wound those at the scene on 7th Aug be moving cartridge cases around? This was all adjudicated on at trial. Ed Lawson QC challenged Macolm Fletcher who confirmed Mr Bamber's upstairs gunshot wounds were all inflicted in the bedroom.
(ix). There is also the question of where Sheila was shot by Jeremy and when and how he managed to subdue her without incurring injuries or leaving Sheila with obvious injuries. The prosecution explain this by trying to say that Sheila was sedated, but we have no evidence that she was sedated. It's also not explained why Sheila would not react if, as the prosecution claim and rest on, a mayhemic and chaotic assault was taking place in the house only yards from where she was sleeping. I don't accept that Jeremy, June and Nevill (if he was upstairs) would have agreed to be silent or extra quiet just so as not to wake up Sheila.
The toxicology report provides detailed info re Sheila's meds found within her blood and liver.
(x). The blood and DNA evidence remains inconclusive:
(a). It has never been established that Sheila's blood was found in the silencer. There is even a possibility is was not human blood at all.
As far as the court at trial was concerned Sheila's blood was in the silencer based on a number of inferences ie Sheila's contact gunshot wounds, paint on silencer. The blood was most definitely human in origin as analysed by Glynnis Howard and John Hayward biologists at FSS.
(b). The jury at trial were misdirected by the judge on the blood evidence.
First appeal was centred on an unfair summing up so redundant.
(c). DNA testing was carried out on the silencer in the 1990s, but the DNA samples were not blood-based, thus the findings cannot be considered probative. Remember that these people lived at this house, or in Sheila's case, stayed there quite often, and the silencer could have been left around, which means there was a possibility of innocent contamination. In any case, the findings were scientifically inconclusive.
The DNA was all meaningless as the silencer was exposed to too much contamination in a pre DNA world.
(xi). I believe at least two silencers were examined by the FSS and recorded as bearing two sets of incriminating evidence.
You believing something means fook all. The resident barrister here has confirmed the lab examined at least 4 identical silencers so your point is?
(xii). I do not believe the scratch marks on the underside of the mantelpiece of the aga oven could have been made by the silencer while it was attached to the rifle.
So does the prosecution. At least you can agree on something.
(xiii). The rifle pull-through test was completely unscientific and unreliable. The rifle should have been subject to either chemical testing or been dismantled by machinists. But if we accept Fletcher's findings at face value, then we have to believe either that the blood in the silencer has defied the laws of physics or there is some physical argument rooted in tension dynamics that explains the lack of blood in the rifle.
Why would blood be found in the rifle barrel? The silencer contains 15 baffles and blood was only detected as far down as the 8th baffle so why would it skip the the last 7 baffles and end up in the rifle barrel?
(xiv). The chain of custody of the silencer was completely unsatisfactory. First, the police failed to find and/or record and remove the silencer immediately at the scene, despite (they claimed) a thorough search. Then there was a failure to isolate the exhibit itself, and the exhibit was tampered with, and potentially valuable forensic evidence was lost. The officer who took the evidence away was inebriated.
The court heard all about how the silencer was found.
(xv). The distribution of blood in the silencer is consistent with contamination. The relatives had the means, motive and opportunity to contaminate the silencer. That, I stress, is not to say they did contaminate the silencer and I do not make that allegation - nor do I need to, as we only need doubt.
In what way is the distribution of blood in the silencer consistent with contamination. Rivlin sowed the seeds at trial about the relatives contaminating the silencer by asking Mr Boutflour snr and jnr if they had ever had cuts to the fingers when handling. Jury still found Bamber guilty.
(xvi). The fingerprint evidence on the rifle, collected and recorded by Ron Cook, is more consistent with Sheila as the killer. The lack of prints, with only two or three found, means that somebody wiped the rifle. The person who wiped the rifle was the killer. Jeremy had no motive to wipe the rifle, as it was effectively his rifle anyway, so any prints found could not incriminate him. Sheila did have a motive to wipe the rifle, if she had just used it to kill her twins and parents, as she would not want to use it on herself if it had their blood on and/or she may have ritualistically cleaned it.
The lack of fingerprints is entirely consistent with both handling at some time for some reason.
Fingerprints are difficult to capture on certain surfaces firearms being one.
(xvii). Jeremy's behaviour after the incident is often cited as a further reason to suspect him, but these same people also want us to believe Jeremy coldly planned the whole thing. Would a cold-blooded mass murderer conduct himself as Jeremy did? Furthermore, a lot of the behaviours that are seen as suspicious could be interpreted the opposite way. Jeremy was obviously acting at the funeral, but the funeral was being broadcast on the TV in front of millions. What was he supposed to do? Jeremy started hurriedly selling the valuable contents of the farmhouse. Certainly this could be considered tactless and insensitive, but somebody had to attend to the estate and selling the contents is the obvious thing to do and would the expected course of action of an innocent person. A guilty person might have been more cautious.
Did the jury hear about any of this subjective stuff?
(xviii). Jeremy, who is supposed to have planned it all out, answered police questions freely and openly. Wouldn't a cold-blooded inheritance killer who had just committed mass murder have been a bit more reticent and cautious? It should be stressed that there is a right to silence and an innocent person could well remain silent under such circumstances (indeed, that is normally the advice received from lawyers), but Jeremy was taking a big risk as a guilty man answering police questions and giving away all that information. He had already given witness statements. Why not just ask the police to refer back to those?
Just your opinion.
(xix). In my view, the inheritance motive falls down, mainly to do with the legal and practical complexities of the estate. Jeremy was not a lawyer, but as a farmer's son, and having regular conversations with Nevill, he would have been aware of a lot of these issues. I appreciate that a guilty Jeremy would have had in mind getting his hands on family money, but it was not a simple matter of killing his family and then receiving loads of ready cash. He must have known this.
And your point is?
(xx). The police destroyed a lot of evidence immediately at the scene and then later in the mid-1990s, important evidence was destroyed.
What evidence was destroyed pre trial that might have assisted? Court of appeal 2002 took a dim view of exhibits destroyed post trial and were prepared to rule in Bamber's favour as they did to some extent with the DNA evidence.
Prof Knight for the defence at trial told the court there's a delay of a few seconds between wounds producing blood as the blood vessels go into shock and contract.
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The rifle was also low powered.
So no time for blood to drip onto the bed or carpet floor.
If blood did drip onto the carpet floor, it would be negated by Sheila's & June's. Prior to the carpets being burnt.
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Prof Knight for the defence at trial told the court there's a delay of a few seconds between wounds producing blood as the blood vessels go into shock and contract.
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The rifle was also low powered.
So no time for blood to drip onto the bed or carpet floor.
If blood did drip onto the carpet floor, it would be negated by Sheila's & June's. Prior to the carpets being burnt.
Does everyone on here agree with Adam's first para above?
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Does everyone on here agree with Adam's first para above?
The Prof Knight bit was copied from CC's above post.
The rest is me.
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The Prof Knight bit was copied from CC's above post.
The rest is me.
OK, so does everyone on here agree with Bernie Knights professional assertion regarding the gun shots (as per Adam's post)?
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OK, so does everyone on here agree with Bernie Knights professional assertion regarding the gun shots (as per Adam's post)?
He is an expert!
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Prof Knight for the defence at trial told the court there's a delay of a few seconds between wounds producing blood as the blood vessels go into shock and contract.
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The rifle was also low powered.
Low powered compared with what? The HO/FSS concluded 1 - 3 joules of energy required to cause a penetrating wound. The rifle/ammunition produced 124 joules of energy so not low powered in causing penetrating wounds.
So no time for blood to drip onto the bed or carpet floor.
Prof Knight said a delay of a few seconds. How long would it take Mr Bamber to get out the bedroom having been shot?
If blood did drip onto the carpet floor, it would be negated by Sheila's & June's. Prior to the carpets being burnt.
Blood did drip on the carpet and blue socks both of which were analysed and found to match Mrs Bamber's blood group A.
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OK, so does everyone on here agree with Bernie Knights professional assertion regarding the gun shots (as per Adam's post)?
Can you be clear please about what it is that's under dispute.
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Low powered compared with what? The HO/FSS concluded 1 - 3 joules of energy required to cause a penetrating wound. The rifle/ammunition produced 124 joules of energy so not low powered in causing penetrating wounds.
Prof Knight said a delay of a few seconds. How long would it take Mr Bamber to get out the bedroom having been shot?
Blood did drip on the carpet and blue socks both of which were analysed and found to match Mrs Bamber's blood group A.
Very low powered compared to a shot gun.
To get out of bed - seconds & prior to Nevill's third shot. To leave the bedroom, - a few seconds again.
As said, any carpet blood drops from Nevill, would be negated by June's/Sheila's. Prior to the carpet burning.
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Nevill was shot 4 times upstairs. Twice in the face from inches away. However was still able to get downstairs & put up a struggle.
June was able to crawl a few feet after being shot 5 times.
So certainly a low powered gun compared to hand guns & shot guns.
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Who the fook cares?
Who the fook cares about you the amount of time you spend posting #sad life
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Can you be clear please about what it is that's under dispute.
I'm just wondering how to apply Prof Knight's assertion to Sheila's gunshot wounds, with regards to the transferance of blood from her gunshots wounds to the underside of her wrist / palm.
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Who the fook cares about you the amount of time you spend posting #sad life
I shouldn't think anyone. Why would they?
Is that what you've named the forum #sad life? :)) :)) :))
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I think the public may have become sated by the number of documentaries/crime programmes which have given air-time to the Bamber case. Only the genuinely interested will watch seriously. It may be a case of preaching to the converted.
You clearly know there is another documentary being made if you live in the area :)
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I'm just wondering how to apply Prof Knight's assertion to Sheila's gunshot wounds, with regards to the transferance of blood from her gunshots wounds to the underside of her wrist / palm.
Sorry I am still not clear about what you're referring to?
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I shouldn't think anyone. Why would they?
Is that what you've named the forum #sad life? :)) :)) :))
It’s clearly about you. What do you think about the new documentary
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Nevill was shot 4 times upstairs. Twice in the face from inches away. However was still able to get downstairs & put up a struggle.
June was able to crawl a few feet after being shot 5 times.
So certainly a low powered gun compared to hand guns & shot guns.
The wounds were not immediately fatal but would have been if others hadn't supervened. I don't believe it had anything to do with the power of the rifle. If the victims received head shots or shots to vital organs then they might well have been immediately fatal. Bamber couldn't inflict shots directed at the head or heart as he needed the scene to look amateurish and frenzied.
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It’s clearly about you. What do you think about the new documentary
A new documentary about ME! Now that would BE interesting ;D
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A new documentary about ME! Now that would BE interesting ;D
You clearly have a #sadlife and appear afflicted in some way
It amuses me to see what an angry person you are
Caroline was like that too. She used to be abusive but disappeared when someone exposed her identity
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Sorry I am still not clear about what you're referring to?
Does Knight's assertion apply to Sheila's shots? If so, does that have any implications for the transferance of blood from her gunshot wounds to the underside of her wrist / palm, as asserted by Vanezis?
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Does Knight's assertion apply to Sheila's shots? If so, does that have any implications for the transferance of blood from her gunshot wounds to the underside of her wrist / palm, as asserted by Vanezis?
Do you mean this delay about blood emitting from gunshot wounds?
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You clearly have a #sadlife and appear afflicted in some way
It amuses me to see what an angry person you are
Caroline was like that too. She used to be abusive but disappeared when someone exposed her identity
Lets hope no one exposes your identity Valerie ;)
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Do you mean this delay about blood emitting from gunshot wounds?
Yes that's what I meant. It puzzles me regarding Sheila's shots for each scenario, ie
Killer / Suicide / Accidental discharge by police.
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You clearly know there is another documentary being made if you live in the area :)
Actually, I don't. My friend's some, a film maker, had thought to do a film, but lost interest after so many had been done.
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Yes that's what I meant. It puzzles me regarding Sheila's shots for each scenario, ie
Killer / Suicide / Accidental discharge by police.
Accidental discharge is a complete no, no. Sheila was considered dead by first respondents evidenced by at least one gunshot wound at 7.30 am. The police surgeon confirmed this at 8.30 am. DC Bird took photos around 10.30 am. This was the first time Sheila had been interfered with in terms of DI Cook lifting her arm. The pathological evidence puts the difference between the two shots at a few minutes max.
The pathologist has always maintained he was unable to say whether Sheila was murdered or took her own life.
Prof Knight said a few seconds for blood to emit from gunshot wounds but the time difference between the two shots was put at a max of a few minutues.
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Accidental discharge is a complete no, no. Sheila was considered dead by first respondents evidenced by at least one gunshot wound at 7.30 am. The police surgeon confirmed this at 8.30 am. DC Bird took photos around 10.30 am. This was the first time Sheila had been interfered with in terms of DI Cook lifting her arm. The pathological evidence puts the difference between the two shots at a few minutes max.
The pathologist has always maintained he was unable to say whether Sheila was murdered or took her own life.
Prof Knight said a few seconds for blood to emit from gunshot wounds but the time difference between the two shots was put at a max of a few minutues.
I don't think you understand what I mean. In any event, it's possible for police to accidentally discharge in to a corpse.
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It is a possibility that two shots can fire off if Sheila still had her finger on the trigger from the first shot as it was a semi-automatic.
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The wounds were not immediately fatal but would have been if others hadn't supervened. I don't believe it had anything to do with the power of the rifle. If the victims received head shots or shots to vital organs then they might well have been immediately fatal. Bamber couldn't inflict shots directed at the head or heart as he needed the scene to look amateurish and frenzied.
My earlier post was saying there is very unlikely to be time for Nevill's blood to drip on the bed & bedroom carpet.
Due to a combination of the rifle & Nevill's instant movements up & out of the bed/bedroom.
Together with Prof Knights testimony.
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Accidental discharge is a complete no, no. Sheila was considered dead by first respondents evidenced by at least one gunshot wound at 7.30 am. The police surgeon confirmed this at 8.30 am. DC Bird took photos around 10.30 am. This was the first time Sheila had been interfered with in terms of DI Cook lifting her arm. The pathological evidence puts the difference between the two shots at a few minutes max.
The pathologist has always maintained he was unable to say whether Sheila was murdered or took her own life.
Prof Knight said a few seconds for blood to emit from gunshot wounds but the time difference between the two shots was put at a max of a few minutues.
The bit about Cook is also, clearly, obviously incorrect. You know this already.
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Very low powered compared to a shot gun.
To get out of bed - seconds & prior to Nevill's third shot. To leave the bedroom, - a few seconds again.
As said, any carpet blood drops from Nevill, would be negated by June's/Sheila's. Prior to the carpet burning.
Adam could you tell me which were the bullet wounds Nevil received while in bed, I am struggling with the angles?
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I don't think you understand what I mean. In any event, it's possible for police to accidentally discharge in to a corpse.
No it wasn't possible based on the pathological evidence.
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It is a possibility that two shots can fire off if Sheila still had her finger on the trigger from the first shot as it was a semi-automatic.
Yes.
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My earlier post was saying there is very unlikely to be time for Nevill's blood to drip on the bed & bedroom carpet.
Due to a combination of the rifle & Nevill's instant movements up & out of the bed/bedroom.
Together with Prof Knights testimony.
Blood spill v movement? You would need to look at other aspects such as casings, distance of shots, bullet paths in flight (trajectories) and wound tracks. Waste of time with the muppet supporters.
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The bit about Cook is also, clearly, obviously incorrect. You know this already.
Please elucidate?
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Please elucidate?
It's like going round in circles.
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Adam could you tell me which were the bullet wounds Nevil received while in bed, I am struggling with the angles?
His two face shots were from inches away. This was while he was still in bed.
The two torso shots were while he was standing up.
The 4 head shots were in the kitchen.
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It's like going round in circles.
You seem to think because you perceive something in certain way others do too. I honestly do not know what you are referring to re Cook. Please spell it out and then I can respond accordingly.
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What's the objective of the above?
I scanned the list and picked up on the thread re the rifle with silencer not fitting in the gun cupboard. Bamber never claimed this. You're wrong about this so what else is wrong?
The objective is set out in the post itself.
Whether or not Jeremy himself made the claim about the gun cupboard (I can't be bothered to check now), the observations in that post stand!
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His two face shots were from inches away. This was while he was still in bed.
The two torso shots were while he was standing up.
The 4 head shots were in the kitchen.
So where was JB standing when Nevil was shot in the bedroom Adam?
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So where was JB standing when Nevil was shot in the bedroom Adam?
On June's side of the bed.
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On June's side of the bed.
The cases would go forward and right I believe so I assume you mean Junes side of the bed but at the bottom?
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The cases would go forward and right I believe so I assume you mean Junes side of the bed but at the bottom?
Yes he did not need to stand over June. The rifle with silencer was long.
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Yes he did not need to stand over June. The rifle with silencer was long.
Looking at the position of the cases and the wounds to Nevil I find it hard to correlate the wounds to the likely position JB was shooting from? plus he would be further away than a few inches?
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Looking at the position of the cases and the wounds to Nevil I find it hard to correlate the wounds to the likely position JB was shooting from? plus he would be further away than a few inches?
Thinking about it, Bamber would be half way up June's side of the bed.
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Thinking about it, Bamber would be half way up June's side of the bed.
Then I would expect the cases to be on the bed if the shots were only a few inches away?
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Then I would expect the cases to be on the bed if the shots were only a few inches away?
Well they were on the floor by the bed. June being shot 5 times, Nevill twice.