Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: killingeve on October 18, 2021, 12:32:PM
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What, if any, evidence exists to support the above? When I say evidence I mean something that would stand up to scrutiny in a court of law.
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Being as the man is now dead---nothing.
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Being as the man is now dead---nothing.
What are you basing your claims on that the relatives dismantled the silencer and Robert Boutflour's blood ended up inside? What difference does it make if the person is alive or dead?
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What are you basing your claims on that the relatives dismantled the silencer and Robert Boutflour's blood ended up inside? What difference does it make if the person is alive or dead?
Quite uppity, aren't you ? You either don't read posts or you can't think for yourself. Which is it ?
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Quite uppity, aren't you ? You either don't read posts or you can't think for yourself. Which is it ?
Why am I going to rely on posts? Do you honestly think posts are going to assist Bamber?
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Why am I going to rely on posts? Do you honestly think posts are going to assist Bamber?
You don't know who reads posts and judging by yours they don't exactly shout encouragement do they ?
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You don't know who reads posts and judging by yours they don't exactly shout encouragement do they ?
I tell you one thing for absolute certainty, posts made on this forum are not a reliable source of information especially when they do not contain any supporting evidence.
Shout encouragement about what?
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I tell you one thing for absolute certainty, posts made on this forum are not a reliable source of information especially when they do not contain any supporting evidence.
Shout encouragement about what?
Mike has put up plenty of documented evidence, I don't know what you mean.
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Mike has put up plenty of documented evidence, I don't know what you mean.
I dont know who created the library etc. Yes some of the material is reliable eg pathology reports, trial testimony from pathologists, but those of you who believe Bamber innocent then claim these people are corrupt or incompetent.
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I dont know who created the library etc. Yes some of the material is reliable eg pathology reports, trial testimony from pathologists, but those of you who believe Bamber innocent then claim these people are corrupt or incompetent.
Because perhaps I have a habit of seeing both sides, i.e. what JB says against what these others say too, whereas your mind is just one-track only.
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Because perhaps I have a habit of seeing both sides, i.e. what JB says against what these others say too, whereas your mind is just one-track only.
And now you're a mind reader? ;D
Who are you referring to when you say "others"?
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And now you're a mind reader? ;D
Who are you referring to when you say "others"?
Know-it-alls. Those who don't allow you to have a view of your own.
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Know-it-alls. Those who don't allow you to have a view of your own.
How is anyone stopping you from having your own views? With regard to what we're discussing here our views do not matter. It is how the commission views Bamber's submission that matters.
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So it seems this one can be put to bed since no one has offered up any evidence to support the relatives dismantling the silencer and Robert Boutflour's blood contaminating?
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So it seems this one can be put to bed since no one has offered up any evidence to support the relatives dismantling the silencer and Robert Boutflour's blood contaminating?
Sorry but I don't see the point of your question? about the only evidence that will stand up in a court of law is a DNA test which is not possible now.
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Sorry but I don't see the point of your question? about the only evidence that will stand up in a court of law is a DNA test which is not possible now.
The CT claim he was the only relative who declined a DNA test.
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The CT claim he was the only relative who declined a DNA test.
Yes I read that also Roch, why would he refuse no reason I can think of?
Is there any DNA left from the blood found in the silencer? I believe brothers/close relatives DNA can be compared though not sure how certain the result would be?
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The CT claim he was the only relative who declined a DNA test.
The CT also claim Sheila dialled 999. While the police were outside!
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The CT claim he was the only relative who declined a DNA test.
The CT claim a lot of things but doesn't make them remotely reliable.
DNA testing was not available in 1985/6 hence the reason for the referral to appeal court in 2002.
I believe Robert Boutflour is now deceased but not sure when he died.
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Sorry but I don't see the point of your question? about the only evidence that will stand up in a court of law is a DNA test which is not possible now.
Some claimed on here yesterday that the relatives dismantled the silencer and Robert Boutflour poured his blood inside :o I was trying to establish the origins of this and whether there was any basis to it at all eg they might have said we dismantled the silencer but it seems its just wishful thinking on the part of those who make such claims.
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Yes I read that also Roch, why would he refuse no reason I can think of?
Is there any DNA left from the blood found in the silencer? I believe brothers/close relatives DNA can be compared though not sure how certain the result would be?
Where did you read that Robert Boutflour refused a DNA test?
There was no visible blood on the silencer in 2002 hence the test used was low copy number dna and you can see how that ended up by referring to the court of appeal deciision 2002.
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The CT claim a lot of things but doesn't make them remotely reliable.
It doesn't make them always wrong either. Therefore, in reality, they are partially reliable. If Jeremy Bamber is innocent, then by default you must agree that our entire justice system from Bews upwards, including Dickinson, COLP, Stokenchurch, the 2002 appeal judges, the 2012 CCRC etc, are all unreliable sources.
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Yes I read that also Roch, why would he refuse no reason I can think of?
Is there any DNA left from the blood found in the silencer? I believe brothers/close relatives DNA can be compared though not sure how certain the result would be?
Not sure Rob tbh. But the authorities in this case are never going to announce any scientific findings that benefit the defence. There is too much at stake - because of all the different enquiries and appeal related matters. The question would arise, 'what on earth is the point in all such agencies, if they are unable to spot a wrongful conviction?'. It undermines trust in public authorities. They would rather that the question isn't asked.. until 2054 or afterwards.
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Not sure Rob tbh. But the authorities in this case are never going to announce any scientific findings that benefit the defence. There is too much at stake - because of all the different enquiries and appeal related matters. The question would arise, 'what on earth is the point in all such agencies, if they are unable to spot a wrongful conviction?'. It undermines trust in public authorities. They would rather that the question isn't asked.. until 2054 or afterwards.
My opinion does not really matter, but to me there is serious doubt at everything I look at, it is clearly a wrongful conviction. I think the case will be referred and if it's not I will lose all faith in the authorities.
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My opinion does not really matter, but to me there is serious doubt at everything I look at, it is clearly a wrongful conviction. I think the case will be referred and if it's not I will lose all faith in the authorities.
It certainly was a wrongful conviction, without any doubt,
I too have read somewhere that RWB refused a DNA test and also that Rivlin had questioned RWB about the finger injury, which I believe was quickly passed off.
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It certainly was a wrongful conviction, without any doubt,
I too have read somewhere that RWB refused a DNA test and also that Rivlin had questioned RWB about the finger injury, which I believe was quickly passed off.
I too have read somewhere.
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Best find the source.
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Doubtful RB could refuse a DNA test. If the legal system wanted one.
His DNA may be on the silencer. He did handle it.
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Doubtful RB could refuse a DNA test. If the legal system wanted one.
His DNA may be on the silencer. He did handle it.
You can't refuse if you have been arrested I believe, but a witness I don't know but why refuse?
He has nothing to worry about does he??
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You can't refuse if you have been arrested I believe, but a witness I don't know but why refuse?
He has nothing to worry about does he??
No evidence he did refuse.
Just more hot air from the mind numbing CT podcasts.
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I too have read somewhere.
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Best find the source.
Why don't you find it for a change ? Afterall, the search facility is easy enough.
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Why don't you find it for a change ? Afterall, the search facility is easy enough.
You're the one making the claim so the onus is on you.
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You're the one making the claim so the onus is on you.
Lookout has never provided a source since joining the forum 9 years ago.
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At trial Robert Boutflour was asked
Did you personally at any stage touch it? No.
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You're the one making the claim so the onus is on you.
No, it was Adam who said " best find the source "----so he can get cracking, can't he ?
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No, it was Adam who said " best find the source "----so he can get cracking, can't he ?
I didn't make the claim.
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No, it was Adam who said " best find the source "----so he can get cracking, can't he ?
No. As I said the onus is on the poster wishing to assert something to find the source. Also called forum etiquette.
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At trial Robert Boutflour was asked
Did you personally at any stage touch it? No.
For some reason I'm unable to provide the link but its under Robert Boutflours statements in the libarary - court evidence - page 1.
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It doesn't make them always wrong either. Therefore, in reality, they are partially reliable. If Jeremy Bamber is innocent, then by default you must agree that our entire justice system from Bews upwards, including Dickinson, COLP, Stokenchurch, the 2002 appeal judges, the 2012 CCRC etc, are all unreliable sources.
Its up to you who/what you rely on for information but I would certainly never use the support group/website for reliable information.
Anyway I think the operative word above is 'If'.
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(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45638)
(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45639)
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(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45638)
(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45639)
You believe Ann Eaton deliberately/knowingly contaminated the silencer with diluted period blood from a pair of Sheila's knickers left to soak in a bucket of water :o :o
How would she overcome all the points in Adam's post re the relatives fabricating the silencer?
I believe the sort of tests carried out to identify blood groupings requires good quality blood samples of a certain quantity. How does very diluted period blood fit this criteria? The ratio would be about 1:1,000,000.
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(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45638)
(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45639)
There you go. It seems although AE did not move in till after the conviction she says she went in every day!
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You believe Ann Eaton deliberately/knowingly contaminated the silencer with diluted period blood from a pair of Sheila's knickers left to soak in a bucket of water :o :o
How would she overcome all the points in Adam's post re the relatives fabricating the silencer?
I believe the sort of tests carried out to identify blood groupings requires good quality blood samples of a certain quantity. How does very diluted period blood fit this criteria? The ratio would be about 1:1,000,000.
The ratio would be about 1:1,000,000.
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That sounds about right.
As said the relatives would not have the idea in the first place.
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(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45638)
(https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7780.0;attach=45639)
The Q & A is just saying AE found diluted period blood knickers in a bucket of water. Together with other clothes.
She tried washing them & then threw them away.
This is already known.
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AE wouldn't have such a sick idea in the first place. Partly because it was impossible to do.
Even the CT agree. Agreeing it is human blood matching Sheila's. But claiming RB put his own blood inside!
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AE wouldn't have such a sick idea in the first place. Partly because it was impossible to do.
Even the CT agree. Agreeing it is human blood matching Sheila's. But claiming RB put his own blood inside!
Even the CT agree. Agreeing it is human blood matching Sheila's. But claiming RB put his own blood inside
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The relatives wouldn't have such a sick idea either. In such a short time span.
They would need to find out a mountain of information. Which would be impossible to obtain without alerting the police.
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AE wouldn't have such a sick idea in the first place. Partly because it was impossible to do.
Even the CT agree. Agreeing it is human blood matching Sheila's. But claiming RB put his own blood inside!
She must be quite tough, I could never live in a house where five people had be killed. I would have pulled it down.
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Muzzle imprints on Sheila's chin.
Absence of Bone, Skin, Blood or DNA from Nicholas Caffell inside the silencer.
Marks on Nevills back and arm.
Absence of debris under the mantle shelf.
Pathologists testimony precluding such altercation causing the scratch marks.
"34. The evidence of Dr Fowler is set out in a more substantial report. That report has been peer reviewed by Dr Dragovich, who is Chief Medical Examiner in Oakland County, Michigan and Dr Marcella Fierro, who is the retired Chief Medical Examiner to the Commonwealth of Virginia. Both have qualifications as forensic pathologists. In his careful report, Dr Fowler makes clear that he has reviewed the evidence, which was available in relation to the wounds. He concluded that the abrasions found were consistent with those of a rifle without a silencer, that there were no distinctive marks on the body which showed that a silencer had been attached, and the residue was consistent with contact wounds."
"Mark Thomas: Now you've looked at the photograph's
Philip Boyce: I have.
Mark Thomas: These are of Sheila's Injuries.
Philip Boyce: I have.
Mark Thomas: Which would you say is the most likely to have occurred?
Philip Boyce: Based on my examination of the wounds in the photographs.And the tests that i have just done. I'm of the opinion that the contact wounds to Sheila's chin. Was contact without the silencer fitted.
"
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She must be quite tough, I could never live in a house where five people had be killed. I would have pulled it down.
Anyone with a pair of hands can unscrew the end cap of a silencer and put blood inside it.
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It is strange that David is so determined to claim that the relatives achieved the impossible in a very short timespan. Let alone have the idea & make the attempt in the first place.
However he refuses to address any of the massive obstacles they would have.
But that's Bamber supporters for you.
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It is strange that David is so determined to claim that the relatives achieved the impossible in a very short timespan. Let alone have the idea & make the attempt in the first place.
However he refuses to address any of the massive obstacles they would have.
But that's Bamber supporters for you.
Impossible in the world of Adam has no bearings in reality. A Gish Gallop of bullshit is hardly a "massive obstacle".
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Impossible in the world of Adam has no bearings in reality. A Gish Gallop of bullshit is hardly a "massive obstacle".
There he goes again.
Hopefully Rob will address them. As requested just now. Although I am not very optimistic. He only addressed 4 of my 34 flaws in his Sheila scenario!
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The CT can make insinuations & not have to answer questions. Even their podcasts have the commenrs turned off.
Supporters on forums are not so fortunate.
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Ann Eaton told the Jury this in regards to her understanding of the silencer.
"At the time I did not know whether it was rabbit blood or what. and I thought the jewellery was the most important thing, turns out I was wrong."
This is a lie. Because the previous year her account on the same subject was as follows.
"We discussed the implication of how this silencer could be in the gun cupboard with blood and paint on it. Obviously if it was being alleged that somebody had had a brainstorm and shot dead four people they would surely not have stopped to remove the silencer, put it back in the gun cupboard, go back upstairs and shoot herself dead. Contact was made with the police about the discovery of the blood and paint stained silencer."
Ann Eaton told the court she thought it was rabbits blood.
RIVLIN: How could you imagine that the blood at the end of the silencer might be a rabbits blood?
ANN EATON: I don't know.
RIVLIN: That is what you told the court. How could you imagine that it might be a rabbits blood?
ANN EATON: Jeremy said he had been shooting rabbits the night before.
However Jeremy said he did not get a chance to shoot them. . Ann Eaton knew Jeremy said this and wrote this in her notes. Hence her answer "Jeremy said he had been shooting rabbits the night before." as for why she thought rabbit blood was on the silencer is clearly a lie.
Furthermore if she did indeed think it was rabbit blood and had no importance why did she report it to the police in the first place?
ARLIDGE: As a result of that being found, were police contacted?
ANN EATON: Yes, Witham Police
ARLIDGE: Do you know the date on which that took place?
ANN EATON: Saturday night.
ARLIDGE: That very evening?
ANN EATON: Yes.
MR. Justice Drake: (To the witness): Q: Who actually contacted them?
ANN EATON: It was probably me, but I cannot remember, but Witham Police were contacted.
The full story of Shelia's bloody underwear
ARLIDGE: What did you do with them in the end? Do they still exist?
ANN EATON: No we decided to put them in the rubbish bin in the kitchen.
This is called lying by omission. In 1991 Ann Eaton admits taking the bloody knickers back to Oak Farm.
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It is strange that David is so determined to claim that the relatives achieved the impossible in a very short timespan. Let alone have the idea & make the attempt in the first place.
However he refuses to address any of the massive obstacles they would have.
But that's Bamber supporters for you.
A " short time-span ?". They had the run of the damn place, even telling the police what to do and when a couple of officers objected, the relatives complained to the higher-ups saying that EP weren't doing their job properly !
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The CT can make insinuations & not have to answer questions. Even their podcasts have the commenrs turned off.
Supporters on forums are not so fortunate.
You can't help your snide comments, can you ? Though it's been par for the course here with guilters.
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A " short time-span ?". They had the run of the damn place, even telling the police what to do and when a couple of officers objected, the relatives complained to the higher-ups saying that EP weren't doing their job properly !
Feel free to address my obstacles regarding the relatives fabricating the silencer.
David can't.
I have asked Rob earlier & so far got no reply.
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David thinks he can put posts in bold & red & that will make a difference.
His last post is basically AE saying she thought the blood on/in the silencer could be rabbits blood. That is what the rifle was used for!
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For Lookout to address.
David can't. Rob so far has not.
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The relatives would need to know -
Is Bamber innocent.
Sheila's arm lenght.
The rifle lenght with silencer.
Could Sheila have shot herself with the silencer attached.
What back splatter is.
Who of the 5 deceased received contact shots.
What locations would contact shots need to be to produce back splatter.
Where were the contact shots on the 5 deceased.
Is there any other forensic evidence against Sheila.
Was there a silencer next to Sheila.
How to realistically put blood into a silencer.
Where was Sheila's blood to insert into a silencer.
Did the rifle barrell already have blood on/in.
Did the crime scene photos show an unscratched aga.
Had the police already checked all silencers at WHF.
The chance of this one piece of framed evidence getting a conviction.
The punishment if caught doing this.
Confidence in each other that none would succumb to police pressure.
Sheila's blood group.
The blood group of each other.
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This had to be found out very quickly. Providing they have the idea & decide to go ahead
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Feel free to address my obstacles regarding the relatives fabricating the silencer.
David can't.
I have asked Rob earlier & so far got no reply.
Because you don't listen to the DOCUMENTED podcasts you won't be aware of how the scratched paintwork came about. I wouldn't snigger if I were you until you learn what happened. It's in the laps of the CCRC at present. This is from the 370,000 documents which were withheld.
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Because you don't listen to the DOCUMENTED podcasts you won't be aware of how the scratched paintwork came about. I wouldn't snigger if I were you until you learn what happened. It's in the laps of the CCRC at present. This is from the 370,000 documents which were withheld.
Would rather go by the judge -
'The aga paint on the silencer means it was used during the massacre'.
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However what is the podcast saying?
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You can't help your snide comments, can you ? Though it's been par for the course here with guilters.
Just stating facts. Why are the comments turned off on the Podcasts?
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Would rather go by the judge -
'The aga paint on the silencer means it was used during the massacre'.
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However what is the podcast saying?
I'd tell you nothing Adam.
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Would rather go by the judge -
'The aga paint on the silencer means it was used during the massacre'.
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The Judge never said that. Once again you are putting words in Drakes mouth.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059 (https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059)
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The Judge never said that. Once again you are putting words in Drakes mouth.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059 (https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059)
Words to that effect. I will quote Wilkes's book.
Why wouldn't the judge say it. It's stating a fact?
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Wilkes -
There was no dispute that the score marks above the mantlepiece were made by the silencer, and that paint from the mantlepiece was found on it.
The judge poured scorn on the defence theory that Sheila took the silencer off & put it away after the kitchen fight. Not least because it also had Sheila's blood in!
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It is strange that supporters so passionately support Bamber. Based on one piece of evidence out of 70+.
They agree with guilters the silencer had human blood matching Sheila's & aga paint on.
However (without evidence) claim the relatives put RB's blood in & scratched the aga.
They then refuse to address the massive obstacles the relatives would have in doing this.
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It is strange that supporters so passionately support Bamber. Based on one piece of evidence out of 70+.
They agree with guilters the silencer had human blood matching Sheila's & aga paint on.
However (without evidence) claim the relatives put RB's blood in & scratched the aga.
They then refuse to address the massive obstacles the relatives would have in doing this.
But you refuse to admit the massive stupidity of JB putting it in the cupboard in the first place, nobody can be this stupid. Also he had every opportunity to go back and tidy up any loose ends.
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It is strange that supporters so passionately support Bamber. Based on one piece of evidence out of 70+.
Your 70 pieces of bullshit is not evidence. ;D
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https://streamable.com/3670xa (https://streamable.com/3670xa)
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But you refuse to admit the massive stupidity of JB putting it in the cupboard in the first place, nobody can be this stupid. Also he had every opportunity to go back and tidy up any loose ends.
I created a thread this month on why he put it away.
Keep up.
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But you refuse to admit the massive stupidity of JB putting it in the cupboard in the first place, nobody can be this stupid. Also he had every opportunity to go back and tidy up any loose ends.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10787.msg497343.html#msg497343
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https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10787.msg497343.html#msg497343
"Putting it away means it is not part of the crime scene."
Do you really believe this? four or five coppers searched the cupboard they cannot all have missed it.
"There was no reason why the police would look at the silencer - they didn't."
I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
I just picked on two of your points Adam.
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"Putting it away means it is not part of the crime scene."
Do you really believe this? four or five coppers searched the cupboard they cannot all have missed it.
"There was no reason why the police would look at the silencer - they didn't."
I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
I just picked on two of your points Adam.
That is what the forum is for. Not being a coward & backing up claims.
Hopefully you will address the massive obstacles the relatives had in fabricating the silencer. Others won't.
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"Putting it away means it is not part of the crime scene."
Do you really believe this? four or five coppers searched the cupboard they cannot all have missed it.
"There was no reason why the police would look at the silencer - they didn't."
I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
I just picked on two of your points Adam.
Do you really believe this? four or five coppers searched the cupboard they cannot all have missed it.
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The gun cupboard was not part of the crime scene.
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"Putting it away means it is not part of the crime scene."
Do you really believe this? four or five coppers searched the cupboard they cannot all have missed it.
"There was no reason why the police would look at the silencer - they didn't."
I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
I just picked on two of your points Adam.
I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
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Good that 36 years later, you believe you would have checked all silencers in boxes inside a gun cupboard. Although Taff said it was murder/suicide.
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I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
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Good that 36 years later, you believe you would have checked all silencers in boxes inside a gun cupboard. Although Taff said it was murder/suicide.
Yes especially as there would have been tell tale footprints leading up to the gun cupboard as you have JB running all over the house, up and down stairs, putting Nevil on the coal scuttle etc. Perhaps the police thought these were caused by one of the rabbits that JB missed the night before?
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Yes especially as there would have been tell tale footprints leading up to the gun cupboard as you have JB running all over the house, up and down stairs, putting Nevil on the coal scuttle etc. Perhaps the police thought these were caused by one of the rabbits that JB missed the night before?
Tell tale footprints leading to the gun cupboard? Evidence please.
Bamber did have to go up and down stairs. Nevill escaped to the kitchen.
Keep up.
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Yes especially as there would have been tell tale footprints leading up to the gun cupboard as you have JB running all over the house, up and down stairs, putting Nevil on the coal scuttle etc. Perhaps the police thought these were caused by one of the rabbits that JB missed the night before?
Footprints?
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Tell tale footprints leading to the gun cupboard? Evidence please.
Bamber did have to go up and down stairs. Nevill escaped to the kitchen.
Keep up.
There is no evidence because JB never went to the gun cupboard. If it was JB he went up the stairs once only, he does not want to get caught remember despite telling half of Witham.
If you disagree that's ok, but you have him standing in pools of blood then going upstairs umm don't think so?
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There is no evidence because JB never went to the gun cupboard. If it was JB he went up the stairs once only, he does not want to get caught remember despite telling half of Witham.
If you disagree that's ok, but you have him standing in pools of blood then going upstairs umm don't think so?
Where's the evidence there was pools of blood?
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There is no evidence because JB never went to the gun cupboard. If it was JB he went up the stairs once only, he does not want to get caught remember despite telling half of Witham.
If you disagree that's ok, but you have him standing in pools of blood then going upstairs umm don't think so?
You don't believe Bamber would go back upstairs after the kitchen fight. Leaving Sheila alive.
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Where's the evidence there was pools of blood?
I don't like looking at the pictures but there was a lot around Nevil, the police had to contain it with cushions etc.
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I don't like looking at the pictures but there was a lot around Nevil, the police had to contain it with cushions etc.
Sure but Bamber could avoid this when running about the house.
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You don't believe Bamber would go back upstairs after the kitchen fight. Leaving Sheila alive.
Unless I am mistaken you had JB remove the silencer give Nevil a beating then go back up the stairs to place the rifle? then back downstairs to the gun cupboard to place the silencer?
How does JB do this and not get blood all over the house?
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Sure but Bamber could avoid this when running about the house.
JB would have to get close to place Nevil on the chair/coal scuttle how does he avoid the blood which was all around?
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JB would have to get close to place Nevil on the chair/coal scuttle how does he avoid the blood which was all around?
I doubt there was the amount of blood depeicted in the crime images when Bamber was running around. The crime images were taken around 10 am I believe which was some 7 hours after the shootings.
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I doubt there was the amount of blood depeicted in the crime images when Bamber was running around. The crime images were taken around 10 am I believe which was some 7 hours after the shootings.
Rob likes to try to make it harder than it would be.
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Unless I am mistaken you had JB remove the silencer give Nevil a beating then go back up the stairs to place the rifle? then back downstairs to the gun cupboard to place the silencer?
How does JB do this and not get blood all over the house?
Wrong.
I had Bamber shoot Sheila twice. Go downstairs. Put the silencer away. Then burn Nevill's back.
He can't remove the silencer before the kitchen fight. The aga paint is on it.
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Bamber can easily avoid any unlikely pools of blood.
After the first 11 shots & kitchen fight, everyone was dead or no threat. So he could take his time.
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Bamber can easily avoid any unlikely pools of blood.
After the first 11 shots everyone was dead or no threat.
We had a discussion on this not long ago, though there are several of your JB scenario's on the forum.
I am not trying to make it hard, it's just that JB has to avoid detection, and to me this is difficult very difficult.
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We had a discussion on this not long ago, though there are several of your JB scenario's on the forum.
I am not trying to make it hard, it's just that JB has to avoid detection, and to me this is difficult very difficult.
I really only have one scenario. I updated it this month to include the silencer removal.
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I really only have one scenario. I updated it this month to include the silencer removal.
If I agreed with it I would say, not trying to be awkward, I think he would go on foot not cycle for example. But the shot to Sheila puzzles me the most how was this done?
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We had a discussion on this not long ago, though there are several of your JB scenario's on the forum.
I am not trying to make it hard, it's just that JB has to avoid detection, and to me this is difficult very difficult.
In what way do you think it was difficult to avoid detection?
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Wrong.
I had Bamber shoot Sheila twice. Go downstairs. Put the silencer away. Then burn Nevill's back.
He can't remove the silencer before the kitchen fight. The aga paint is on it.
Then how does he create the rifle barrel marks on Nevills forearm?
Vanezis autopy notes -
"There is a collection of bruises on right forearm
_____ of end of barrel of rifle
Area of bruising 2"x 4" Slight bruising around elbow"
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Then how does he create the rifle barrel marks on Nevills forearm?
Vanezis autopy notes -
"There is a collection of bruises on right forearm
_____ of end of barrel of rifle
Area of bruising 2"x 4" Slight bruising around elbow"
I think the pathologist refers to a "blunt instrument". What's the difference between the barrel of the rifle or the silencer?
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I think the pathologist refers to a "blunt instrument". What's the difference between the barrel of the rifle or the silencer?
His notes state "end of barrel of rifle" ::)
The end of the barrel is small and threaded. The silencer is large and smooth.
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His notes state "end of barrel of rifle" ::)
The end of the barrel is small and threaded. The silencer is large and smooth.
He only refers to a "blunt instrument" nothing about threaded ends. ::)
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If I agreed with it I would say, not trying to be awkward, I think he would go on foot not cycle for example. But the shot to Sheila puzzles me the most how was this done?
Six miles of walking before & after the massacre is a lot. Easier & quicker to cycle. Several cycle routes.
No one believes Bamber's reason for taking June's bike just before the massacre - Julie can cycle to the train station when going home.
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If I agreed with it I would say, not trying to be awkward, I think he would go on foot not cycle for example. But the shot to Sheila puzzles me the most how was this done?
Bamber's massacre vision was everyone would die or be negated within the first 11 shots.
A kitchen fight he was not expecting.
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Six miles of walking before & after the massacre is a lot. Easier & quicker to cycle. Several cycle routes.
No one believes Bamber's reason for taking June's bike just before the massacre - Julie can cycle to the train station when going home.
After 17 hours of working in rape fields, harvesting, I doubt a triathlon was on JB's mind !
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Then how does he create the rifle barrel marks on Nevills forearm?
Vanezis autopy notes -
"There is a collection of bruises on right forearm
_____ of end of barrel of rifle
Area of bruising 2"x 4" Slight bruising around elbow"
Nevill was beaten by the back of the rifle.
The silencer was taken off prior to burning Nevill's back. As Bamber says himself.
He may have used another instrument to burn Nevill's back. However still decided to remove the silencer & put it away. For obvious reasons.
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After 17 hours of working in rape fields, harvesting, I doubt a triathlon was on JB's mind !
Bamber had been sitting on his tractor all day. He had several hours to recover before the massacre.
Agree he would want to get to/from WHF as quickly & easily as possible.
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Nevill was beaten by the back of the rifle.
The silencer was taken off prior to burning Nevill's back. As Bamber says himself.
He may have used another instrument to burn Nevill's back. However still decided to remove the silencer & put it away. For obvious reasons.
Why would JB carry on beating his father when the poor man would have been half dead ?
Again, the burns are something else which has been solved and is among the submissions.
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Why would JB carry on beating his father when the poor man would have been half dead ?
Again, the burns are something else which has been solved and is among the submissions.
The fight lasted until Nevill had been negated.
Bamber's blows had tremendous force. He may have thrown a couple of blows more than he needed to. Due to adrelelin. It was a fight to the death.
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The fight lasted until Nevill had been negated.
Bamber's blows had tremendous force. He may have thrown a couple of blows more than he needed to. Due to adrelelin. It was a fight to the death.
Sheila had more strength both physically and mentally in their early years as JB was quite a wimp, with Sheila fighting his battles when he was bullied among other children. It was never in JB to display violence at any time whereas Sheila had been the feisty one and remained that way throughout her short life.
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Sheila had more strength both physically and mentally in their early years as JB was quite a wimp, with Sheila fighting his battles when he was bullied among other children. It was never in JB to display violence at any time whereas Sheila had been the feisty one and remained that way throughout her short life.
I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
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They went to different schools.
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I would have done, five people have just lost their lives that's quite a good reason to look I think.
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They went to different schools.
What have their schools got to do about anything ? It was their characteristics that were different !
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In what way do you think it was difficult to avoid detection?
Well you are going to commit a crime where there are only two possible suspects, the police are not daft it takes a lot to fool them.
JB cannot be seen going to or from the farm, he cannot leave a tell tale mark anywhere, he cannot get marked or injured in anyway. Finally hardest of all he has to make the shot to Sheila look like suicide.
He achieves the impossible then tells everyone it was him by putting the silencer in the cupboard why?
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Well you are going to commit a crime where there are only two possible suspects, the police are not daft it takes a lot to fool them.
JB cannot be seen going to or from the farm, he cannot leave a tell tale mark anywhere, he cannot get marked or injured in anyway. Finally hardest of all he has to make the shot to Sheila look like suicide.
He achieves the impossible then tells everyone it was him by putting the silencer in the cupboard why?
Bamber cycled between 1am - 3am. No one would see him.
Who would injure him? Nevill was shot 4 times before the kitchen fight. Bamber was fully padded up.
He would have used force or persuasion to move Sheila. Not difficult. He had checked on her condition a few hours earlier.
What tell tale marks can he leave. He was in the house regulary.
He had to take the silencer off while inside WHF. He put it away. A thread created this month on why.
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Rob is really determined to make a straight forward night time silent massacre attempt seem impossible.
While simultaneously instantly giving up on his Sheila scenario after I posted 34 flaws. Saying 'a Sheila scenario is not important'!
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It has been proven that nobody used the bicycle---it was fully tested.
When a person has been shot 4 times, it renders them incapable of further defence.
JB was not " padded up ". Where did that come from ? Nothing at trial said so.
No signs of force marks on Sheila, e.g. grip marks on bare arms/ body.
No entry marks on freshly painted house/ windows.
No reports of JB's presence inside WHF whether he'd lived there or not. His bedroom was searched.
Silencer wasn't on the rifle to start with.
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It has been proven that nobody used the bicycle---it was fully tested.
When a person has been shot 4 times, it renders them incapable of further defence.
JB was not " padded up ". Where did that come from ? Nothing at trial said so.
No signs of force marks on Sheila, e.g. grip marks on bare arms/ body.
No entry marks on freshly painted house/ windows.
No reports of JB's presence inside WHF whether he'd lived there or not. His bedroom was searched.
Silencer wasn't on the rifle to start with.
All that is wrong.
Why do you post such trash?
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JB was not " padded up ". Where did that come from ? Nothing at trial said so.
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Common sense. It was summer but he's not going to arrive in flip flops.
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All that is wrong.
Why do you post such trash?
And you don't ? :o
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JB was not " padded up ". Where did that come from ? Nothing at trial said so.
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Common sense. It was summer but he's not going to arrive in flip flops.
So, it was summer. Why would he be padded up ? You said it, not me !
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So, it was summer. Why would he be padded up ? You said it, not me !
Because he's attempting a 5x massacre & does not want to get injured.
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Well you are going to commit a crime where there are only two possible suspects, the police are not daft it takes a lot to fool them.
JB cannot be seen going to or from the farm, he cannot leave a tell tale mark anywhere, he cannot get marked or injured in anyway. Finally hardest of all he has to make the shot to Sheila look like suicide.
He achieves the impossible then tells everyone it was him by putting the silencer in the cupboard why?
I think you under estimate Bamber's obsession with money and how this probably clouded any rational judgement he may have had.
He crept into the farmhouse during the hours of darkness and was in possession of a loaded firearm. He had at one time been a marksman so very likely to walk away unscathed. He knew Sheila was 'spaced out' from Colin's party and her behaviour at the farm and that she was more than likely to comply with his wishes. He had a lot to do after accomplishing his mission eg staging the scene, slamming shut the window, cycling back to Goldhanger, making phone calls etc. In his haste he cocked up with the silencer. All my opinion of course!
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Because he's attempting a 5x massacre & does not want to get injured.
How would he have got inside looking like Michelin Man ? Was his face covered too from Sheila's long talons, a woman's favourite weapon ?
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I think you under estimate Bamber's obsession with money and how this probably clouded any rational judgement he may have had.
He crept into the farmhouse during the hours of darkness and was in possession of a loaded firearm. He had at one time been a marksman so very likely to walk away unscathed. He knew Sheila was 'spaced out' from Colin's party and her behaviour at the farm and that she was more than likely to comply with his wishes. He had a lot to do after accomplishing his mission eg staging the scene, slamming shut the window, cycling back to Goldhanger, making phone calls etc. In his haste he cocked up with the silencer. All my opinion of course!
He made the right call in taking the silencer off & putting it away. Out of sight. Whether that was luck or judgement only he knows.
His mistake was not hanging around longer. Stan Jones may have given him the keys to WHF to do a tidy up. Rather than AE.
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How would he have got inside looking like Michelin Man ? Was his face covered too from Sheila's long talons, a woman's favourite weapon ?
Not Michelin man. Maybe a wet suit underneath normal clothes. Gloves, a balaclava or beeny hat. Strong shoes/trainers.
All common sense items prior to this attempt.
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Not Michelin man. Maybe a wet suit underneath normal clothes. Gloves, a balaclava or beeny hat. Strong shoes/trainers.
All common sense items prior to this attempt.
Which all items would leave fibres and none were found ! Flushed water was tested in the bathroom with a luminol solution to test for blood of which none was found. Carpets were cut in various places for testing but no results, least of all from JB were detected.
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Rob is really determined to make a straight forward night time silent massacre attempt seem impossible.
While simultaneously instantly giving up on his Sheila scenario after I posted 34 flaws. Saying 'a Sheila scenario is not important'!
I never gave up on my Sheila scenario Adam but you pick out 34 trivial points and fail to tell me that the copper content of a swab from her right hand matched two testers who had loaded 18 bullets into a magazine. Sheila would have washed before going to bed ....
Luckily David posted this information.
I sometimes drive to work at 3 in the morning in a rural setting surprising how often there are people about. So I think it is safe to say JB walked, perhaps you can correct your scenario, only trying to help ::)
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I never gave up on my Sheila scenario Adam but you pick out 34 trivial points and fail to tell me that the copper content of a swab from her right hand matched two testers who had loaded 18 bullets into a magazine. Sheila would have washed before going to bed ....
Luckily David posted this information.
I sometimes drive to work at 3 in the morning in a rural setting surprising how often there are people about. So I think it is safe to say JB walked, perhaps you can correct your scenario, only trying to help ::)
All of my 34 points carry equal weight - they cancel your scenario.
Bamber cycled along country footpaths. Not roads.
I have already posted sourced evidence about Sheila's hands, feet, fingernails & nightdress. As well as copper. Why do you refuse to accept it?
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Not true !!
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All of my 34 points carry equal weight - they cancel your scenario.
Bamber cycled along country footpaths. Not roads.
I have already posted sourced evidence about Sheila's hands, feet, fingernails & nightdress. As well as copper. Why do you refuse to accept it?
EP tried that cycle route out in broad daylight and didn't meet their target of 10 minutes.
No part of Sheila had been clear of blood and damage to her nails.
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I never gave up on my Sheila scenario Adam but you pick out 34 trivial points and fail to tell me that the copper content of a swab from her right hand matched two testers who had loaded 18 bullets into a magazine. Sheila would have washed before going to bed ....
Luckily David posted this information.
I sometimes drive to work at 3 in the morning in a rural setting surprising how often there are people about. So I think it is safe to say JB walked, perhaps you can correct your scenario, only trying to help ::)
On-top of that Adam has never explained -
Marks on Nevills forearm caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
Muzzle imprints on Sheilas chin caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
No skin tissue in the silencer.
No blood, DNA, tissue or bone fragments from Nicholas Cafell in the silencer.
How Nevil managed to grapple with the rifle with only one arm.
No paint chips under the AGA.
No scratches under the AGA in the august 7th crime scene photos.
PS: I have never seen his "34 flaws" but Adam being Adam it is almost certainly just another Gish Gallop and can be refuted by pointing it out for what it is.
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EP tried that cycle route out in broad daylight and didn't meet their target of 10 minutes.
No part of Sheila had been clear of blood and damage to her nails.
10 minute target?
There were several routes. Trudie even sat on a park bench which was on one of the routes.
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On-top of that Adam has never explained -
Marks on Nevills forearm caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
Muzzle imprints on Sheilas chin caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
No skin tissue in the silencer.
No blood, DNA, tissue or bone fragments from Nicholas Cafell in the silencer.
How Nevil managed to grapple with the rifle with only one arm.
No paint chips under the AGA.
No scratches under the AGA in the august 7th crime scene photos.
PS: I have never seen his "34 flaws" but Adam being Adam it is almost certainly just another Gish Gallop and can be refuted by pointing it out for what it is.
PS: I have never seen his "34 flaws"
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You posted on Robs 'Sheila Scenario thread'.
Had more holes than a sieve. But at least he didn't say Nevill rang Bamber after Sheila started shooting the twins.
Keep up.
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On-top of that Adam has never explained -
Marks on Nevills forearm caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
Muzzle imprints on Sheilas chin caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
No skin tissue in the silencer.
No blood, DNA, tissue or bone fragments from Nicholas Cafell in the silencer.
How Nevil managed to grapple with the rifle with only one arm.
No paint chips under the AGA.
No scratches under the AGA in the august 7th crime scene photos.
PS: I have never seen his "34 flaws" but Adam being Adam it is almost certainly just another Gish Gallop and can be refuted by pointing it out for what it is.
How Nevil managed to grapple with the rifle with only one arm.
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How? He used one arm.
If he really couldn't use two.
Keep up.
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On-top of that Adam has never explained -
Marks on Nevills forearm caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
Muzzle imprints on Sheilas chin caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
No skin tissue in the silencer.
No blood, DNA, tissue or bone fragments from Nicholas Cafell in the silencer.
How Nevil managed to grapple with the rifle with only one arm.
No paint chips under the AGA.
No scratches under the AGA in the august 7th crime scene photos.
PS: I have never seen his "34 flaws" but Adam being Adam it is almost certainly just another Gish Gallop and can be refuted by pointing it out for what it is.
Marks on Nevills forearm caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
Muzzle imprints on Sheilas chin caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
No skin tissue in the silencer.
No blood, DNA, tissue or bone fragments from Nicholas Cafell in the silencer
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All this is in David's imagination.
Skin tissue in silencer ;D
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On-top of that Adam has never explained -
Marks on Nevills forearm caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
Muzzle imprints on Sheilas chin caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
No skin tissue in the silencer.
No blood, DNA, tissue or bone fragments from Nicholas Cafell in the silencer.
How Nevil managed to grapple with the rifle with only one arm.
No paint chips under the AGA.
No scratches under the AGA in the august 7th crime scene photos.
PS: I have never seen his "34 flaws" but Adam being Adam it is almost certainly just another Gish Gallop and can be refuted by pointing it out for what it is.
No paint chips under the AGA.
No scratches under the AGA in the august 7th crime scene photos
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Scratch marks were too feint to leave debris. I have already told you this. Keep up.
There is a crime scene photo of the aga minus scratches. Has Mike got it together with his photo of Sheila on the bed?
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Marks on Nevills forearm caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
Muzzle imprints on Sheilas chin caused by the end rifle barrel sans silencer.
No skin tissue in the silencer.
No blood, DNA, tissue or bone fragments from Nicholas Cafell in the silencer
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All this is in David's imagination.
Skin tissue in silencer ;D
Really?
(https://i.ibb.co/n6gW019/sil555.png)
I imagined this?
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I think Adam's unwell today-----wanting me banned, then laughing at David, not normal behaviour.
Go and have a lie down with a cup of tea, Adam.
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Has Mike got it together with his photo of Sheila on the bed?
I guess 'DS, jones' and 'DC Clark' were lying to 'Ann Eaton' and 'other relatives' when they told them after just being at the farmhouse an hour or so beforehand, that 'Sheilas' and Junes' bodies, were found laid side by side on top of the bed, with a rifle resting on the bed between them! Additionally, 'Sheila' had got a bible resting on her chest! 'Ann Eaton' and the 'other relatives' all know that police told them that 'Sheilas' body was laid on top of the bed in the main bedroom less than an hour or so beforehand [9.15 - 9.30am] when and which by reference to this body of information that the 'mentioned evidence' confirms that 'Jones' and 'Clark' had visited the main bedroom crime scene earlier that same morning!
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The relatives, have all seen images of 'Sheilas' body laid on the bedroom floor in possession of the. 22 semi-automatic rifle on her chest [where 'DS Jones' and 'DC Clark' had told them that 'a bible was resting there', and that crime scene photographs presented as taken by police from just after 10.00am that morning, were photographs showing the position police had found her body, untouched and undisturbed] - only, that the bodies of the two victims ['Sheila' and 'June'] had earlier been laid on top of the bed together, 'side by side' with both bodies seemingly moved onto the floor on the side, [either had originally been found resting upon] . There has been `a massive`, `irreversible`, `traumatic`, `incomprehensible`, `inhumain`, `despicable`, `horrendous`, attempt by certain 'reptilian type characters' , disguised as, 'police officers' , 'members of the public' [relatives], `forensic experts` and their `assistants', 'judiciary', 'government' , including the 'Home Secretary' of the day, 'Prime ministers' and 'the media', who are 'all responsible' for turning their back insofar as 'where the actual truth in this case,' lies', and 'has lied', and 'which continues to lie', and 'so on' , and 'so forth'....
All that I know, what I sense, and what my heart is telling me, is that, whatever fate has befell 'Jeremy Bamber' at the hands of/from the bad behaviour of this `herd of reptilian monsters`, is that his convictions are not safe, he has clearly been ambushed and set up to take a fall, for a number of reasons, but chiefly because, 'the police fucked up' at the scene, they shot live rounds into bodies which they thought were deceased, as part of a so called police training exercise [referred to only ver briefly in the police documentation, as 'INFORMATIVES'] . 'Jeremy Bamber' should be set free [as of 'yesterday', or 'sooner']
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The relatives, have all seen images of 'Sheilas' body laid on the bedroom floor in possession of the. 22 semi-automatic rifle on her chest [where 'DS Jones' and 'DC Clark' had told them that 'a bible was resting there', and that crime scene photographs presented as taken by police from just after 10.00am that morning, were photographs showing the position police had [allegedly] found her body, `untouched` and `undisturbed`] - only, that the bodies of the two victims ['Sheila' and 'June'] had earlier been `laid on top of the bed` together, 'side by side' with a clear inference which can and must be drawn from the fact that 'both bodies' have /had seemingly been 'moved onto the floor' on the side, [on 'either side that the bodies of the two victims' had 'originally been found resting upon' ] . There has been `a massive`, `irreversible`, `traumatic`, `incomprehensible`, `inhumain`, `despicable`, `horrendous`, attempt by certain 'reptilian type characters' , disguised as, 'police officers' , 'members of the public' [relatives], `forensic experts` and their `assistants', 'judiciary', 'government' , including the 'Home Secretary' of the day, 'Prime ministers' and 'the media', who are 'all responsible' for turning their back insofar as 'where the actual truth in this case,' lies', and 'has lied', and 'which continues to lie', and 'so on' , and 'so forth'....
All that I know, what I sense, and what my heart is telling me, is that, whatever fate has befell 'Jeremy Bamber' at the hands of/from the bad behaviour of this `herd of reptilian monsters`, is that his convictions are not safe, he has clearly been ambushed and set up to take a fall, for a number of reasons, but chiefly because, 'the police fucked up' at the scene, they shot live rounds into bodies which they thought were deceased, as part of a so called police training exercise [referred to only ver briefly in the police documentation, as 'INFORMATIVES'] . 'Jeremy Bamber' should be set free [as of 'yesterday', or 'sooner']
'Hand on heart' 'truth speak', everything points to 'a frame up' instigated because of serious mistakes made at the scene and elsewhere, by police, which 'relatives uncovered' and 'exposed' , enabling them 'eventually to manipulate' legal action against 'Jeremy'...
'Did the relatives' , blackmail 'Essex police', into prosecuting 'Jeremy' as the sole culprit in those/these five murders, at peril of shooting themselves in the foot?
'We' shall see, in 'due course'..