Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Bubo bubo on October 17, 2021, 04:45:PM
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This post is prompted by David1819’s quote regarding the actions of PV in the CAL Propaganda novel.
I am sure he would re-post it if asked.
You should familiarise yourself with PV’s statements on this site.
Statements 07/05/86 and 12/11/86.
At the meeting following autopsies (08/07/85) with all the key players present he clearly states that for JB to have been the perpetrator Sheila would have to have been drugged. Heavy emphasis is placed on the need for a drug analysis.
In the CAL quote this aspect is completely ignored even though he mentions his reasons for wishing to test for them.
There is no evidence to support Sheila being drugged by a third party.
Despite contacts with RC he does not mention being asked for this information even though it was a key piece of information for the investigation. You would have thought that EP would be seeking this fundamental evidence verbally on a number of occasions, given its vital importance to the course of the investigation. You would think they would be chasing him because if JB was innocent it would change the focus of investigation to Sheila or some other third party. One of the contacts from RC was at least a month later (After Aisley’s appointment 07/09/85).
He does not discuss the details of the meeting Ainsley was calling or whether he even attended.
This tends to suggest that the police did not suspect JB at this time and/or that they had other evidence that ruled him out. Perhaps Nevill’s call? Either that or the tests proved negative and he chooses not to include this fact.
In stating that the bullet fragmented he does delineate the number of fragments. If it was fragmented, then PV20 would have to have been swapped twice. Given Taylors GER on PV20 and that blood and tissue was included, this seems unlikely.
I still believe that the fragmentation issue was a ruse to enable SC to have been capable of shooting June. A stance that EP produced at an early stage of the saga when JB was not a suspect.
PV uses carefully chosen weasel words which he then can interpret differently at various times depending on the needs of the moment.
He is a crooked evil man who ducks and weaves to protect himself with no concern for what this means for JB. He is masquerading as an impartial professional and using his position as a qualified pathologist to bend the facts.
He is trying to cover for the fact that he knew EP had accidently shot June and that he had conspired to hide this from the outset.
CAL has a lot to answer for. Her book looks like a vehicle for some to rewrite history in order to obscure their part in the framing.
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This post is prompted by David1819’s quote regarding the actions of PV in the CAL Propaganda novel.
I am sure he would re-post it if asked.
You should familiarise yourself with PV’s statements on this site.
Statements 07/05/86 and 12/11/86.
At the meeting following autopsies (08/07/85) with all the key players present he clearly states that for JB to have been the perpetrator Sheila would have to have been drugged. Heavy emphasis is placed on the need for a drug analysis.
In the CAL quote this aspect is completely ignored even though he mentions his reasons for wishing to test for them.
There is no evidence to support Sheila being drugged by a third party.
Despite contacts with RC he does not mention being asked for this information even though it was a key piece of information for the investigation. You would have thought that EP would be seeking this fundamental evidence verbally on a number of occasions, given its vital importance to the course of the investigation. You would think they would be chasing him because if JB was innocent it would change the focus of investigation to Sheila or some other third party. One of the contacts from RC was at least a month later (After Aisley’s appointment 07/09/85).
He does not discuss the details of the meeting Ainsley was calling or whether he even attended.
This tends to suggest that the police did not suspect JB at this time and/or that they had other evidence that ruled him out. Perhaps Nevill’s call? Either that or the tests proved negative and he chooses not to include this fact.
In stating that the bullet fragmented he does delineate the number of fragments. If it was fragmented, then PV20 would have to have been swapped twice. Given Taylors GER on PV20 and that blood and tissue was included, this seems unlikely.
I still believe that the fragmentation issue was a ruse to enable SC to have been capable of shooting June. A stance that EP produced at an early stage of the saga when JB was not a suspect.
PV uses carefully chosen weasel words which he then can interpret differently at various times depending on the needs of the moment.
He is a crooked evil man who ducks and weaves to protect himself with no concern for what this means for JB. He is masquerading as an impartial professional and using his position as a qualified pathologist to bend the facts.
He is trying to cover for the fact that he knew EP had accidently shot June and that he had conspired to hide this from the outset.
CAL has a lot to answer for. Her book looks like a vehicle for some to rewrite history in order to obscure their part in the framing.
I agree. In relatively recent correspondence between us. Jeremy refers to CAL as "Carol Ann Liar".
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I agree. In relatively recent correspondence between us. Jeremy refers to CAL as "Carol Ann Liar".
Have you read the book?
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Have you read the book?
I read most of it. I thought it was well written but narrow in scope and very trusting of police / authorities. If you wanted her to uncover any MOJ, anywhere in the world, you would find yourself waiting for eternity.
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I read most of it. I thought it was well written but narrow in scope and very trusting of police / authorities. If you wanted her to uncover any MOJ, anywhere in the world, you would find yourself waiting for eternity.
Her book on Ruth Ellis is quite sympathetic towards her.
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Her book on Ruth Ellis is quite sympathetic towards her.
I can remember my mother crying when it was on the radio and saying she shouldn't have been hanged.
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I read most of it. I thought it was well written but narrow in scope and very trusting of police / authorities. If you wanted her to uncover any MOJ, anywhere in the world, you would find yourself waiting for eternity.
Did it say anything new. That is not online, on Youtube or in other books?
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I can remember my mother crying when it was on the radio and saying she shouldn't have been hanged.
I can remember my father saying hanging a pretty young woman marked the end of capital punishment in Britain. An extract:
The wardresses working shifts in the condemned cell expected their charge to be a hard, vulgar young woman, deceitful and brassy; that was how the popular press had portrayed her, after all. Durham-born Evelyn Galilee, employed at Holloway since 1951, was surprised by the reality:
In came this fragile girl, a Dresden doll. She was my age and tiny-no more than 5ft-and so very slim. Her skin was like porcelain. They had taken away her false nails, eyelashes and glamorous clothes and put her in baggy prison issue clothes. But they could not strip her of her dignity. Not once did she break down, scream or cry. Ruth had this acceptance of what she'd done and felt the punishment fitted the crime. Her eyes...were bewitching, the most beautiful violet-blue, the colour of forget-me-nots.
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Did it say anything new. That is not online, on Youtube or in other books?
I can't remember Adam.
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By all means talk about books but you have let Steve UK drag you away from the topic. He is quite good at that. This a forum about JB and his MOJ. It is not to be a book club or a place for literary reviews. If you want to talk about books why not have a book thread?
I have pointed out before that PV may have already been in the pocket of the police. I quoted the Tomlinson case and the use of Mr Patel.
Have you ever wondered why a pathologist was sent from London? I cannot believe that there was no suitable pathologist at, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, Cambridge etc. who would have been closer and no ballistics expert was summoned.
A lot would depend on how pathologists were assigned to cases at that time.
Was there a register of pathologists from which SIO’s could pick.
Did they have to work through the Home Office who would allocate an available member.
Did Senior officers (who were Masons) have a list of pathologists who were also Masons.
In such a case I believe they would have sought an already compromised pathologist. Was/is he a Freemason. It is clear from his CV that he was a man with vaulting ambition eventually rising to the very highest level at the Home Office. At the start he may have seen this as an opportunity, a kind of early version of ‘Linkedin’. Access to police top brass. Called on for the more notorious cases that would raise his profile, etc.
Over the years he has become a ‘celebrity’ pathologist and regularly appears on TV documentaries.
He has no Wikipedia entry but his ‘majestic’ CV is on his website. We do not know his background. Some personal facts can be found on his Desert Island discs’ episode. (BBC sounds).
Membership of the Masonic order is by invitation only, you cannot apply. PV qualified as a pathologist in 1972 so had 13 years’ experience by the time of the WHF incident. I have no doubt that during this time he would have met many Masons at all ranks of the police force and may have been invited/asked to join. Do not forget that Maggie T had been PM for 6 years and she turned the police into her foot soldiers. Levels of Masonic membership within the police was very much higher than it is today and questions about Masonry and police membership was from time to time subject to scrutiny in the media.
If he was a Mason, he could not say no. ‘Clan’ members must help fellow brothers if it is within their gift.
If he said no he could have been invited to join the Masons.
So long as he had not put pen to paper they had time to get some ‘dirt’ on him or a relative to persuade him. Did he or his family have skeletons in the cupboard which would have adversely affected his reputation. Part of their methodology is to have intimate knowledge of members and public figures so that they can use this to blackmail and pressurise others to achieve their objectives.
They may just have appealed to his emotional side. Young officer distraught, likely to lose his job for a single understandable reflex action. Police under extreme pressure etc.
Even if they could not persuade him, all he had to do was state the facts. In this situation I am sure they would have managed. If he had not made erroneous changes to his findings to cater for the so called first shot and Sheila being able to shoot June, along with the head shot to June we would be none the wiser.
After all he may have seen the situation at that time the same as DCC Simpson, that it was a closed situation and it would just be him and the EP who really knew what had happened.
Like him however he reckoned without the Boutflour family.
This is my example of a possible reading of events. I could be wrong. He has made too many changes that I have spotted and he has had to clarify too many issues such as the cleanliness of SC’s hands for my liking.
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I agree. In relatively recent correspondence between us. Jeremy refers to CAL as "Carol Ann Liar".
You write to Bamber :o
What is he claiming Carol Ann Lee lied about?
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You write to Bamber :o
What is he claiming Carol Ann Lee lied about?
Why not write to him ? I do, though it's been a while since I last wrote, so I'll be dropping him another line ( and not over the wall ) I send postage stamps too.
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By all means talk about books but you have let Steve UK drag you away from the topic. He is quite good at that. This a forum about JB and his MOJ. It is not to be a book club or a place for literary reviews. If you want to talk about books why not have a book thread?
I have pointed out before that PV may have already been in the pocket of the police. I quoted the Tomlinson case and the use of Mr Patel.
Have you ever wondered why a pathologist was sent from London? I cannot believe that there was no suitable pathologist at, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, Cambridge etc. who would have been closer and no ballistics expert was summoned.
A lot would depend on how pathologists were assigned to cases at that time.
Was there a register of pathologists from which SIO’s could pick.
Did they have to work through the Home Office who would allocate an available member.
Did Senior officers (who were Masons) have a list of pathologists who were also Masons.
In such a case I believe they would have sought an already compromised pathologist. Was/is he a Freemason. It is clear from his CV that he was a man with vaulting ambition eventually rising to the very highest level at the Home Office. At the start he may have seen this as an opportunity, a kind of early version of ‘Linkedin’. Access to police top brass. Called on for the more notorious cases that would raise his profile, etc.
Over the years he has become a ‘celebrity’ pathologist and regularly appears on TV documentaries.
He has no Wikipedia entry but his ‘majestic’ CV is on his website. We do not know his background. Some personal facts can be found on his Desert Island discs’ episode. (BBC sounds).
Membership of the Masonic order is by invitation only, you cannot apply. PV qualified as a pathologist in 1972 so had 13 years’ experience by the time of the WHF incident. I have no doubt that during this time he would have met many Masons at all ranks of the police force and may have been invited/asked to join. Do not forget that Maggie T had been PM for 6 years and she turned the police into her foot soldiers. Levels of Masonic membership within the police was very much higher than it is today and questions about Masonry and police membership was from time to time subject to scrutiny in the media.
If he was a Mason, he could not say no. ‘Clan’ members must help fellow brothers if it is within their gift.
If he said no he could have been invited to join the Masons.
So long as he had not put pen to paper they had time to get some ‘dirt’ on him or a relative to persuade him. Did he or his family have skeletons in the cupboard which would have adversely affected his reputation. Part of their methodology is to have intimate knowledge of members and public figures so that they can use this to blackmail and pressurise others to achieve their objectives.
They may just have appealed to his emotional side. Young officer distraught, likely to lose his job for a single understandable reflex action. Police under extreme pressure etc.
Even if they could not persuade him, all he had to do was state the facts. In this situation I am sure they would have managed. If he had not made erroneous changes to his findings to cater for the so called first shot and Sheila being able to shoot June, along with the head shot to June we would be none the wiser.
After all he may have seen the situation at that time the same as DCC Simpson, that it was a closed situation and it would just be him and the EP who really knew what had happened.
Like him however he reckoned without the Boutflour family.
This is my example of a possible reading of events. I could be wrong. He has made too many changes that I have spotted and he has had to clarify too many issues such as the cleanliness of SC’s hands for my liking.
Spot on Bubo Steve tries to get people off topic every single time a post is in favour of JB. I am sick to death of it
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Why not write to him ? I do, though it's been a while since I last wrote, so I'll be dropping him another line ( and not over the wall ) I send postage stamps too.
Lol I bet you quite like the idea of dropping Bamber a line over the wall!
Only a few weeks and you will no doubt receive your regular Christmas card.
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Lol I bet you quite like the idea of dropping Bamber a line over the wall!
Only a few weeks and you will no doubt receive your regular Christmas card.
Why not ? At least it shows he's still in the land of the living.
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You write to Bamber :o
What is he claiming Carol Ann Lee lied about?
You write to Bamber
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;D
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I can't remember Adam.
I suspect it doesn't contain anything new. Otherwise you would remember.
Seems CAL's book is a bit long winded. Writing about the history of WHF.
She interviewed Bamber. However so did Wilkes. I've not read that she interviewed Julie.
However it got CAL noticed & the book would have made her some money.
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How much is her book now, 1/6 ?
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How much is her book now, 1/6 ?
The cheapest I can find is £2.05 but costs £2.79 postage.
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The cheapest I can find is £2.05 but costs £2.79 postage.
Charity shop next, among the 5 for £1 bundles.
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You write to Bamber :o
What is he claiming Carol Ann Lee lied about?
I don't know the details of what he thinks about her. But a breakdown on the honesty of CALs book can be found here.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10153.msg475000.html#msg475000 (https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10153.msg475000.html#msg475000)
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I don't know the details of what he thinks about her. But a breakdown on the honesty of CALs book can be found here.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10153.msg475000.html#msg475000 (https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10153.msg475000.html#msg475000)
If somebody puts the rifle into another vulnerable person's hand and shoot the victim unawares it would be nigh on impossible to make a conclusion, hence why Jeremy Bamber boasted to Julie he had committed "the perfect crime." As for Nicholas, wasn't there a remote possibility that the blood in the silencer could have been a mixture of Nevill's and June's, hence the Blood Type O found?
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Spot on Bubo Steve tries to get people off topic every single time a post is in favour of JB. I am sick to death of it
..and I am sick to death of the Bamberettes making allegations they cannot substantiate and scarpering when the going gets tough.
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..and I am sick to death of the Bamberettes making allegations they cannot substantiate and scarpering when the going gets tough.
You could always throw the towel in and leave. We are sick to death with your unflinching support for Julie but we put up with it. I have previously suggested that you read my post on Julie. You have clearly not even attempted to read it. Search for 'Julie Mugford and the prisoners dilemma'. You should be able to do that now I have shown you
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You could always throw the towel in and leave. We are sick to death with your unflinching support for Julie but we put up with it. I have previously suggested that you read my post on Julie. You have clearly not even attempted to read it. Search for 'Julie Mugford and the prisoners dilemma'. You should be able to do that now I have shown you
I'm not searching for anything. If you were proud of your authorship you would provide a link.
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I'm not searching for anything. If you were proud of your authorship you would provide a link.
I have. Sorry if you cannot type as directed. You just want a single click.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10693.msg493790.html#msg493790
You can go to bed happy.
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I agree. In relatively recent correspondence between us. Jeremy refers to CAL as "Carol Ann Liar".
Have you shared your diluted period blood theory in your correspondence with Bamber and if so what did he have to say on the matter?
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Have you shared your diluted period blood theory in your correspondence with Bamber and if so what did he have to say on the matter?
David certainly shared his 2016 'forensic evidence breakthrough' with Bamber.
That would have really cheered Jeremy up.
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David certainly shared his 2016 'forensic evidence breakthrough' with Bamber.
That would have really cheered Jeremy up.
'Forensic evidence breakthrough'? Does it feature in the current submission?
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'Forensic evidence breakthrough'? Does it feature in the current submission?
It was binned in 2016.
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It was binned in 2016.
That's what you think, you spiteful individual. Are you by any chance related to the relatives ?