Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: handymanz on October 08, 2021, 10:57:PM
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In 1986 I was travelling to an inter-school cross country event at Greshams. All that was spoken about on the bus was the Bamber case. I was 16 at the time.
Until I watched White House Farm on Netflix I hadn’t thought any more about him. All I remembered was that he was just a psycho, I mean that’s how the media had portrayed him and that's all I remembered. For 35 years I hadn’t watched or read anything else to give me a different opinion.
After school I partied, travelled, SCUBA dived around the world and pretty much for the past 35 years have had a life that he has been denied.
I also have two adopted children. At the time of adopting them I always remembered the Bamber case - I always wondered how many families haven’t looked at adoption because they would end up with a “psycho killer ..” It certainly crossed my mind.
So going back to the drama it was Stephen Grahams one line in that drama where he said ”Just because he’s an arrogant twat that doesn’t make him a mass murderer” that really struck a chord with me and made me look into all this more.
The day after I watched the drama I rang an old friend, ex-public school boy, who is an Essex farmer, he has a dad that reminded me of Neville and a family home very similar architecturally to White House Farm.
As Essex farmers all pretty much know one another I thought that he must think something about this case.
When I asked him he laughed. “Jeremy was playing tennis a week after the shootings with my ex-girlfriend, loads of us knew him and none of us ever thought it was him, it was just ridiculous…”
We also compared our times at public schools in the 80’s and we both agreed you were pretty much ENCOURAGED to be an arrogant twat, I mean you were above the riff riff and commoners because you were at an expensive school and that arrogance “made” you successful (just look at the ex-public school boy arrogant twats running the country right now).
So since then I’ve taken the red pill and gone down all the groups and documentaries and every episode of the EXCELLENT podcast and am just amazed at not only the cover up but also Jeremy’s incredible resilience. I just cannot imagine how anyone can live a life like he has fighting for his name. To be honest all the discussions on the group about paint flakes, hair in the moderator etc. can go on infinitum - all you really need to do is listen to the interview with Terry Mullins which to me just proves without a shadow of a doubt his innocence.
As a documentary filmmaker I was pretty disappointed with the cherry picking of information in order to make the Theroux backed documentary - I understand what they were doing but I felt it really lacked the in-depth approach a US backed Netflix doc would have taken. When Jeremy is released I’m pretty sure production companies will be falling over themselves to interview him. After 36 years he’ll have the time to choose the right ones who really want to tell the story properly rather than in an OTT telly drama way. I think this story by then deserves a real cinematic theatrical release kind of film rather than a broadcast funded piece of throwaway telly. I mean it is the most important miscarriage of justice in British history. It’s a gigantic story.
I think It's the kind of production that could easily get crowdfunded and enable Jeremy and the campaign team to really get involved in the nitty gritty of telling the story properly without any outside influences. I’d definitely be interested in helping out if it came to that, I have a doc airing on C4 in a couple of weeks and have shot award winning independent films so have a bit of knowledge and some great contacts on that front. Just a thought.
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Wow :'(
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In 1986 I was travelling to an inter-school cross country event at Greshams. All that was spoken about on the bus was the Bamber case. I was 16 at the time.
Until I watched White House Farm on Netflix I hadn’t thought any more about him. All I remembered was that he was just a psycho, I mean that’s how the media had portrayed him and that's all I remembered. For 35 years I hadn’t watched or read anything else to give me a different opinion.
After school I partied, travelled, SCUBA dived around the world and pretty much for the past 35 years have had a life that he has been denied.
I also have two adopted children. At the time of adopting them I always remembered the Bamber case - I always wondered how many families haven’t looked at adoption because they would end up with a “psycho killer ..” It certainly crossed my mind.
So going back to the drama it was Stephen Grahams one line in that drama where he said ”Just because he’s an arrogant twat that doesn’t make him a mass murderer” that really struck a chord with me and made me look into all this more.
The day after I watched the drama I rang an old friend, ex-public school boy, who is an Essex farmer, he has a dad that reminded me of Neville and a family home very similar architecturally to White House Farm.
As Essex farmers all pretty much know one another I thought that he must think something about this case.
When I asked him he laughed. “Jeremy was playing tennis a week after the shootings with my ex-girlfriend, loads of us knew him and none of us ever thought it was him, it was just ridiculous…”
We also compared our times at public schools in the 80’s and we both agreed you were pretty much ENCOURAGED to be an arrogant twat, I mean you were above the riff riff and commoners because you were at an expensive school and that arrogance “made” you successful (just look at the ex-public school boy arrogant twats running the country right now).
So since then I’ve taken the red pill and gone down all the groups and documentaries and every episode of the EXCELLENT podcast and am just amazed at not only the cover up but also Jeremy’s incredible resilience. I just cannot imagine how anyone can live a life like he has fighting for his name. To be honest all the discussions on the group about paint flakes, hair in the moderator etc. can go on infinitum - all you really need to do is listen to the interview with Terry Mullins which to me just proves without a shadow of a doubt his innocence.
As a documentary filmmaker I was pretty disappointed with the cherry picking of information in order to make the Theroux backed documentary - I understand what they were doing but I felt it really lacked the in-depth approach a US backed Netflix doc would have taken. When Jeremy is released I’m pretty sure production companies will be falling over themselves to interview him. After 36 years he’ll have the time to choose the right ones who really want to tell the story properly rather than in an OTT telly drama way. I think this story by then deserves a real cinematic theatrical release kind of film rather than a broadcast funded piece of throwaway telly. I mean it is the most important miscarriage of justice in British history. It’s a gigantic story.
I think It's the kind of production that could easily get crowdfunded and enable Jeremy and the campaign team to really get involved in the nitty gritty of telling the story properly without any outside influences. I’d definitely be interested in helping out if it came to that, I have a doc airing on C4 in a couple of weeks and have shot award winning independent films so have a bit of knowledge and some great contacts on that front. Just a thought.
'When Jeremy is released I’m pretty sure production companies will be falling over themselves to interview him'
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That has helped keep him going.
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In 1986 I was travelling to an inter-school cross country event at Greshams. All that was spoken about on the bus was the Bamber case. I was 16 at the time.
Until I watched White House Farm on Netflix I hadn’t thought any more about him. All I remembered was that he was just a psycho, I mean that’s how the media had portrayed him and that's all I remembered. For 35 years I hadn’t watched or read anything else to give me a different opinion.
After school I partied, travelled, SCUBA dived around the world and pretty much for the past 35 years have had a life that he has been denied.
I also have two adopted children. At the time of adopting them I always remembered the Bamber case - I always wondered how many families haven’t looked at adoption because they would end up with a “psycho killer ..” It certainly crossed my mind.
So going back to the drama it was Stephen Grahams one line in that drama where he said ”Just because he’s an arrogant twat that doesn’t make him a mass murderer” that really struck a chord with me and made me look into all this more.
The day after I watched the drama I rang an old friend, ex-public school boy, who is an Essex farmer, he has a dad that reminded me of Neville and a family home very similar architecturally to White House Farm.
As Essex farmers all pretty much know one another I thought that he must think something about this case.
When I asked him he laughed. “Jeremy was playing tennis a week after the shootings with my ex-girlfriend, loads of us knew him and none of us ever thought it was him, it was just ridiculous…”
We also compared our times at public schools in the 80’s and we both agreed you were pretty much ENCOURAGED to be an arrogant twat, I mean you were above the riff riff and commoners because you were at an expensive school and that arrogance “made” you successful (just look at the ex-public school boy arrogant twats running the country right now).
So since then I’ve taken the red pill and gone down all the groups and documentaries and every episode of the EXCELLENT podcast and am just amazed at not only the cover up but also Jeremy’s incredible resilience. I just cannot imagine how anyone can live a life like he has fighting for his name. To be honest all the discussions on the group about paint flakes, hair in the moderator etc. can go on infinitum - all you really need to do is listen to the interview with Terry Mullins which to me just proves without a shadow of a doubt his innocence.
As a documentary filmmaker I was pretty disappointed with the cherry picking of information in order to make the Theroux backed documentary - I understand what they were doing but I felt it really lacked the in-depth approach a US backed Netflix doc would have taken. When Jeremy is released I’m pretty sure production companies will be falling over themselves to interview him. After 36 years he’ll have the time to choose the right ones who really want to tell the story properly rather than in an OTT telly drama way. I think this story by then deserves a real cinematic theatrical release kind of film rather than a broadcast funded piece of throwaway telly. I mean it is the most important miscarriage of justice in British history. It’s a gigantic story.
I think It's the kind of production that could easily get crowdfunded and enable Jeremy and the campaign team to really get involved in the nitty gritty of telling the story properly without any outside influences. I’d definitely be interested in helping out if it came to that, I have a doc airing on C4 in a couple of weeks and have shot award winning independent films so have a bit of knowledge and some great contacts on that front. Just a thought.
Bamber wasn't at public school in the 80's. He left Greshams in 1977.
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What can I say, handyman-----just brilliant, even though it doesn't surprise me. Many thanks for that.
Resilience equals Intelligence ! Or vice-versa.
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Thanks for posting this very interesting.
I like you thought JB was 100% guilty but became interested in the case after watching the WHF series on Netflix, I became very doubtful when the toxicology results for Sheila came back negative. I just could not see how the killer could shot Sheila under the chin and make it look like suicide.
I kept thinking when is the damming evidence going to turn up and it never did.
Leaving the silence in the cupboard? all he had to do was leave it beside Sheila and he was home and dry. Nothing makes sense unless he planned to get caught!
Thanks also for pointing out why he appeared to some as arrogant.
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Thanks for posting this very interesting.
I like you thought JB was 100% guilty but became interested in the case after watching the WHF series on Netflix, I became very doubtful when the toxicology results for Sheila came back negative. I just could not see how the killer could shot Sheila under the chin and make it look like suicide.
I kept thinking when is the damming evidence going to turn up and it never did.
Leaving the silence in the cupboard? all he had to do was leave it beside Sheila and he was home and dry. Nothing makes sense unless he planned to get caught!
Thanks also for pointing out why he appeared to some as arrogant.
I just could not see how the killer could shot Sheila under the chin and make it look like suicide.
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The killer would put the rifle under Sheila's chin. Then pull the trigger.
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Thanks for posting this very interesting.
I like you thought JB was 100% guilty but became interested in the case after watching the WHF series on Netflix, I became very doubtful when the toxicology results for Sheila came back negative. I just could not see how the killer could shot Sheila under the chin and make it look like suicide.
I kept thinking when is the damming evidence going to turn up and it never did.
Leaving the silence in the cupboard? all he had to do was leave it beside Sheila and he was home and dry. Nothing makes sense unless he planned to get caught!
Thanks also for pointing out why he appeared to some as arrogant.
'I kept thinking when is the damming evidence going to turn up and it never did.'
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I've already posted over 70 pieces of forensic evidence.
Circumstantial evidence is even more.
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Thanks for posting this very interesting.
I like you thought JB was 100% guilty but became interested in the case after watching the WHF series on Netflix, I became very doubtful when the toxicology results for Sheila came back negative. I just could not see how the killer could shot Sheila under the chin and make it look like suicide.
I kept thinking when is the damming evidence going to turn up and it never did.
Leaving the silence in the cupboard? all he had to do was leave it beside Sheila and he was home and dry. Nothing makes sense unless he planned to get caught!
Thanks also for pointing out why he appeared to some as arrogant.
Leaving the silence in the cupboard? all he had to do was leave it beside Sheila and he was home and dry.
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I have created a thread this week why he did not leave the silencer out.
You did not dispute any of them or give counter reasons why he would.
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Think Rob is on a wind up.
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Think Rob is on a wind up.
On the contrary, you've been doing it for years !
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On the contrary, you've been doing it for years !
70 pieces of bullshit. :))
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70 pieces of bullshit. :))
Thought that would awaken David.
Each piece has at least one source. Not sure what else I can do. But open to suggestions.
I will re post for Rob.
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1.
Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA
2.
One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA
3.
Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila. Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.
4.
Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.
5.
No broken nails - Not disputed COA.
6.
Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.
7.
No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.
8.
No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.
9.
No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.
10.
No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.
11.
Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER, JUDGE.
12.
No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.
13.
No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA
14.
Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.
15.
Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.
16.
Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER.
17.
No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.
18.
No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.
19.
Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.
20.
No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.
21.
No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.
22.
No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.
23.
No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.
24.
Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - COA.
25.
Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - COA.
26.
Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - COA.
27.
Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.
28.
Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.
29.
Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.
30.
Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.
31.
Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.
32.
Sheila's blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.
33.
No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - COA.
34.
Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.
35.
Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.
36.
A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - COA.
37.
Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE, COA.
38.
Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.
39.
Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE, COA.
40.
Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.
41.
Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER, COA.
42.
Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - COA.
43.
No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM.
44.
Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK.
45.
Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - COA.
46.
Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS, COA.
47.
June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.
48.
Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion by Bamber in 2012 CCRC submission burns were caused minus silencer - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME, COA.
49.
2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT.
50.
The twins not waking - Not disputed - COA.
51.
Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - COA.
52.
Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COA.
53.
Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS.
54.
No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM.
55.
Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - COA.
56.
Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER, COA.
57.
Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.
58.
Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - COA.
59.
Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO.
60.
Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA.
61.
Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - COA.
62.
Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.
63.
Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER
64.
Housekeeper evidence of items around the kitchen sink being moved on massacre night - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK
65.
Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.
66.
Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA.
67.
Nevill being lifted onto a coal scuttle - Not disputed. CRIME SCENE PICTURES, COA.
68.
Dried blood on Sheila - Not Disputed. PATHOLOGIST.
69.
Sheila having to load prior to first shots - Not disputed. COA
70.
Blood in silencer being Sheila's with remote possibility of being a mixture of June and Nevill's. Meaning the silencer was used. Not disputed. COA.
71:
Nevill having the oppportunity to restrain Sheila while fully fit prior to her firing shots. Not disputed. AGREED BY ALL PARTIES.
72:
Sheila never having fired a rifle before - BAMBER. Not disputed.
73:
Sheila never loaded, chambered & breached a rifle before - BAMBER. Not disputed.
74:
No gun shot residue on Sheila's hands. COA. Not disputed.
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As far as I know the CT disputes two of the 71 pieces.
They agree the silencer sent for testing had Sheila's blood & aga paint on/in. But say this is due to fabrication.
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I have added a 72 & 73 to the list. Source is Bamber's WS.
Supporters have countered this by saying Sheila went on a shooting party years earlier. So would know how to load, breach, chamber & fire a rifle. Which is very optimistic.
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The paint was originally on the end of the metal cap which was on the end of the rifle.
It was Davidson who'd said in his COLP statement that it was on the end of the gun's barrel and NOT a silencer. Only those who were hell-bent on causing mischief said it was on the silencer.
How did paint get on the silencer ?
The truth will out !
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I have added a 74.
David will be climbing the walls.
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I have added a 74.
David will be climbing the walls.
You'd like to think so, wouldn't you ? I'm afraid it would take more than a few empty words to have him " crawling the walls "-----and that goes for me too ;D :)) :)) :)) :))
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The only thing that does it for me is having it rain on my washing. ;D
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It’s very clear what the truth is by now about Jeremys character with the latest post from handyman and the other people who new Jeremy really well
Hardly a mass murderer
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Adam you forgot to mention the flippers ;D I thought David was being very polite when he said "70 pieces of ..."
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Adam you forgot to mention the flippers ;D I thought David was being very polite when he said "70 pieces of ..."
There is no evidence of flippers being used.
What more can I do than post forensic evidence with source/s?
David has never said.
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It’s very clear what the truth is by now about Jeremys character with the latest post from handyman and the other people who new Jeremy really well
Hardly a mass murderer
I bet there would have been many who knew/ know Jeremy that would have been only too willing to have come forward to tell the public their own personal views, but knowing what people are generally, they'd have probably had bricks thrown through their windows for supporting him. If people on a forum can damage you mentally because of your views, imagine them knowing you on the outside !? And these same people call Jeremy fit to burn ?
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Adam I read QC's Sheila scenario last night, you did not look very hard. All that grief you gave him over it.
Flippers evidence? yes I agree there is none that's why I keep mentioning them! Thought you would have realised!
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Adam I read QC's Sheila scenario last night, you did not look very hard. All that grief you gave him over it.
Flippers evidence? yes I agree there is none that's why I keep mentioning them! Thought you would have realised!
Please quote it. Thank you.
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There is no evidence of flippers being used.
What more can I do than post forensic evidence with source/s?
David has never said.
But RWB said there was :o
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But RWB said there was :o
People have said Bamber may have worn his wet suit. Which is possible.
No one has said Bamber wore flippers when committing the massacre.
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People have said Bamber may have worn his wet suit. Which is possible.
No one has said Bamber wore flippers when committing the massacre.
And periscope while pedalling home to make sure he wasn't being followed.
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In 1986 I was travelling to an inter-school cross country event at Greshams. All that was spoken about on the bus was the Bamber case. I was 16 at the time.
Until I watched White House Farm on Netflix I hadn’t thought any more about him. All I remembered was that he was just a psycho, I mean that’s how the media had portrayed him and that's all I remembered. For 35 years I hadn’t watched or read anything else to give me a different opinion.
After school I partied, travelled, SCUBA dived around the world and pretty much for the past 35 years have had a life that he has been denied.
I also have two adopted children. At the time of adopting them I always remembered the Bamber case - I always wondered how many families haven’t looked at adoption because they would end up with a “psycho killer ..” It certainly crossed my mind.
So going back to the drama it was Stephen Grahams one line in that drama where he said ”Just because he’s an arrogant twat that doesn’t make him a mass murderer” that really struck a chord with me and made me look into all this more.
The day after I watched the drama I rang an old friend, ex-public school boy, who is an Essex farmer, he has a dad that reminded me of Neville and a family home very similar architecturally to White House Farm.
As Essex farmers all pretty much know one another I thought that he must think something about this case.
When I asked him he laughed. “Jeremy was playing tennis a week after the shootings with my ex-girlfriend, loads of us knew him and none of us ever thought it was him, it was just ridiculous…”
We also compared our times at public schools in the 80’s and we both agreed you were pretty much ENCOURAGED to be an arrogant twat, I mean you were above the riff riff and commoners because you were at an expensive school and that arrogance “made” you successful (just look at the ex-public school boy arrogant twats running the country right now).
So since then I’ve taken the red pill and gone down all the groups and documentaries and every episode of the EXCELLENT podcast and am just amazed at not only the cover up but also Jeremy’s incredible resilience. I just cannot imagine how anyone can live a life like he has fighting for his name. To be honest all the discussions on the group about paint flakes, hair in the moderator etc. can go on infinitum - all you really need to do is listen to the interview with Terry Mullins which to me just proves without a shadow of a doubt his innocence.
As a documentary filmmaker I was pretty disappointed with the cherry picking of information in order to make the Theroux backed documentary - I understand what they were doing but I felt it really lacked the in-depth approach a US backed Netflix doc would have taken. When Jeremy is released I’m pretty sure production companies will be falling over themselves to interview him. After 36 years he’ll have the time to choose the right ones who really want to tell the story properly rather than in an OTT telly drama way. I think this story by then deserves a real cinematic theatrical release kind of film rather than a broadcast funded piece of throwaway telly. I mean it is the most important miscarriage of justice in British history. It’s a gigantic story.
I think It's the kind of production that could easily get crowdfunded and enable Jeremy and the campaign team to really get involved in the nitty gritty of telling the story properly without any outside influences. I’d definitely be interested in helping out if it came to that, I have a doc airing on C4 in a couple of weeks and have shot award winning independent films so have a bit of knowledge and some great contacts on that front. Just a thought.
So Jeremy playing tennis makes him innocent? What about five individuals who were denied the right to life?
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That's a bit like dyed black hair making him guilty, Steve.
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36.
A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - COA.
74:
No gun shot residue on Sheila's hands. COA. Not disputed.
Adam why do you keep saying not disputed? Can you instead say members can't be bothered to correct you?
For example:
Nevil's side of the bed had no blood on it, it was June's side that had the blood on.
As for gun shot residue, with a rifle the shooter won't get much GSR on their hands anyway. But as she had none on her, this is proof she must have washed as everyone would have GSR on them with 25 shots being fired.
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That's a bit like dyed black hair making him guilty, Steve.
Oh Lookout :( now Adam has got 75 pieces of damming evidence!
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Adam why do you keep saying not disputed? Can you instead say members can't be bothered to correct you?
For example:
Nevil's side of the bed had no blood on it, it was June's side that had the blood on.
As for gun shot residue, with a rifle the shooter won't get much GSR on their hands anyway. But as she had none on her, this is proof she must have washed as everyone would have GSR on them with 25 shots being fired.
Yes and she did the hokey cokey as well.
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"The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. The Gish Gallop is a conveyor belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable for anyone to have a well-composed answer immediately available to every argument present in the Gallop"
"Gish Gallops are almost always performed with numerous other logical fallacies baked in. The myriad component arguments constituting the Gallop may typically intersperse a few perfectly uncontroversial claims — the basic validity of which are intended to lend undue credence to the Gallop at large — with a devious hodgepodge of half-truths, outright lies, red herrings and straw men — which, if not rebutted as the fallacies they are, pile up into egregious problems for the refuter."
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop)
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Adam why do you keep saying not disputed? Can you instead say members can't be bothered to correct you?
For example:
Nevil's side of the bed had no blood on it, it was June's side that had the blood on.
As for gun shot residue, with a rifle the shooter won't get much GSR on their hands anyway. But as she had none on her, this is proof she must have washed as everyone would have GSR on them with 25 shots being fired.
He has been corrected enough times. He just keeps pasting the same list of crap over and over again.
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Adam why do you keep saying not disputed? Can you instead say members can't be bothered to correct you?
For example:
Nevil's side of the bed had no blood on it, it was June's side that had the blood on.
As for gun shot residue, with a rifle the shooter won't get much GSR on their hands anyway. But as she had none on her, this is proof she must have washed as everyone would have GSR on them with 25 shots being fired.
Not disputed means by Bamber or the CT.
Washing would not remove GSR.
There was blood all over the floor on Nevill's side of the bed. Probably a combination of Sheila & June. A slim chance mouth blood dripped from Nevill.
Anyway. Now you know there are 74 pieces of 'sourced' evidence.
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Oh Lookout :( now Adam has got 75 pieces of damming evidence!
It keeps going up :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
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It keeps going up :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
I keep agreeing with you today.
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I keep agreeing with you today.
Probably done to keep me sweet,eh ?
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Yes and she did the hokey cokey as well.
Well Sheila is in a room in which 12 shots have been fired and Adam is saying no GSR on her?
How do you explain this? it's a genuine question.
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He has been corrected enough times. He just keeps pasting the same list of crap over and over again.
He makes it hard for people like me trying to learn more about the case now he is going on about flippers ;)
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He makes it hard for people like me trying to learn more about the case now he is going on about flippers ;)
They matched the wet suit that he pedalled home in. The snorkel was in the basket in front of the bike. ;D
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He makes it hard for people like me trying to learn more about the case now he is going on about flippers ;)
Lookout brought up flippers.
Keep up.
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Well Sheila is in a room in which 12 shots have been fired and Adam is saying no GSR on her?
How do you explain this? it's a genuine question.
Washing would not remove GSR.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-remove-gunpowder-residue&ved=2ahUKEwiG28jHgb7zAhUTWsAKHUqqD-gQFnoECC8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0HjghwKxV3gDY-ynYj8i-1
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He makes it hard for people like me trying to learn more about the case now he is going on about flippers ;)
Just block him in your profile settings
Profile > Summary > Modify Profile > Buddies/Ignore list > Edit Ignore list.
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Well Sheila is in a room in which 12 shots have been fired and Adam is saying no GSR on her?
How do you explain this? it's a genuine question.
Her brother killed her, her parents and her sons.
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Just block him in your profile settings
Profile > Summary > Modify Profile > Buddies/Ignore list > Edit Ignore list.
David1819 has so many members on ignore he is this site's greatest soliloquist.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.quora.com/What-removes-gun-powder-residue-from-your-hands&ved=2ahUKEwjrvKjqg77zAhVHglwKHVILDOAQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3jaWvUGGj77eO_itdHKhmQ
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There is no evidence Sheila had a shower.
The evidence is she was found bare footed in the nightdress she would have gone to bed in.
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Washing would not remove GSR.
So Sheila must have GSR on her then so don't keep posting she has none, you can't have it both ways.
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So Sheila must have GSR on her then so don't keep posting she has none, you can't have it both ways.
You can read more about the state of Sheila's hands here.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9975.msg455530.html#msg455530 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9975.msg455530.html#msg455530)
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10209.msg478366.html#msg478366 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10209.msg478366.html#msg478366)
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There is no evidence Sheila had a shower.
The evidence is she was found bare footed in the nightdress she would have gone to bed in.
Who knocked the shower head off then ?
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Who knocked the shower head off then ?
We don't know. Sheila could have washed her hair, though unlikely as she was exhausted after Aunt Pam's telephone call. Jeremy could have used it to clean himself up before the ride home.
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You can read more about the state of Sheila's hands here.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9975.msg455530.html#msg455530 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9975.msg455530.html#msg455530)
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10209.msg478383.html#msg478383 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10209.msg478383.html#msg478383)
Thanks for that David I thought her hands were clean! so Sheila had similar levels of copper on her left hand to a lab testee who had loaded 18 bullets in to a magazine, and Sheila was left handed I believe.
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Who knocked the shower head off then ?
Knocked off shower head? Do you have a source?
There were 5 people staying at WHF. Bamber even dropped over a couple of times.
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Knocked off shower head? Do you have a source?
There were 5 people staying at WHF. Bamber even dropped over a couple of times.
The shower head in the upstairs bathroom was found off its cradle by Ann Eaton, who noted it was not usually to be found in that position.
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The shower head in the upstairs bathroom was found off its cradle by Ann Eaton, who noted it was not usually to be found in that position.
That must mean someone had a shower. At some point.
Not surprising. Showers are there to be used.
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The condition of Sheila Caffell's body and her clothing
47. The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were "perfectly clean". Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers. All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.
48.
The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hands.
49.
DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact. The deceased's feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.
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Then there is Sheila's nightdress.
But hey it's only forensic evidence. JackieD posted today that someone said Jeremy was a nice man. So must be innocent.
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Then there is Sheila's nightdress.
But hey it's only forensic evidence. JackieD posted today that someone said Jeremy was a nice man. So must be innocent.
Well no normal person could have done the crime Adam.
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Well no normal person could have done the crime Adam.
Yes wasn't it Peter Vanezis who said: "Jeremy must have been a nutter to do this"..
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Inheritance killings have always & will always happen.
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Well no normal person could have done the crime Adam.
The prosecutions firearm "expert" already admitted that his comments on the nightdress was meaningless.
"Mr M.D Fletcher Cross Examined
Q: You postulated Mr. Fletcher, didn't you, that if the wounds were self-inflicted, the wounds to Mrs. Caffell, you would have expected to find traces of oil and firearms discharge on the front of her nightdress?
A: I did qualify that by saying if the wounds were self-inflicted, using a rifle held close to the body.
Q: You obviously worked out the approximate angles of fire, as explored?
A: I had looked at some possible angles of fire yes.
Q: You had seen the X-rays.
A: I am sorry I misunderstood. I thought you meant the ways of holding the gun rather than the track of the bullet. I beg your pardon, I see now yes.
Q: I think you have seen the sketches that we have put forward, which are agreed, yes?
A: Yes I have.
Q: Number 1 on the sketch is the contact wound.
A: Yes sir.
Q: With the gun held pointing at that angle would you expect residue on the nightdress.
A: You could certainly position the head and gun so that it would be possible to get residue on the nightdress.
Q: The point is surely Mr. Fletcher that it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether the wound is self-inflicted or inflicted by anybody else, if the gun is held at a particular angle you might get residue on the nightdress?
A: If held in the correct position certainly. Close to the body at the correct angle for the projection of the bullet in the head.
Q: Why is that correct?
A: To fulfil the requirements for the residue to get on to the nightdress.
Q: It doesn't help us to be certain whether they were self-inflicted or inflicted by another person, does it?
A: It does give a particular set of circumstances. I am trying to tell you what I would expect to find. If some of those circumstances don't occur or were incorrect then my finding, are, as you say, not valid.
Q: Forgive me, I am probably being extremely stupid. Does it help at all? What I am suggesting to you is that it didn't help us at all in deciding whether the wounds were self-inflicted or not self-inflicted. The gun would have had to be in a particular angle to the body in order to deliver the wound in the direction it is in,in either case.
A: Yes. "
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The prosecutions firearm "expert" already admitted that his comments on the nightdress was meaningless.
"Mr M.D Fletcher Cross Examined
Q: You postulated Mr. Fletcher, didn't you, that if the wounds were self-inflicted, the wounds to Mrs. Caffell, you would have expected to find traces of oil and firearms discharge on the front of her nightdress?
A: I did qualify that by saying if the wounds were self-inflicted, using a rifle held close to the body.
Q: You obviously worked out the approximate angles of fire, as explored?
A: I had looked at some possible angles of fire yes.
Q: You had seen the X-rays.
A: I am sorry I misunderstood. I thought you meant the ways of holding the gun rather than the track of the bullet. I beg your pardon, I see now yes.
Q: I think you have seen the sketches that we have put forward, which are agreed, yes?
A: Yes I have.
Q: Number 1 on the sketch is the contact wound.
A: Yes sir.
Q: With the gun held pointing at that angle would you expect residue on the nightdress.
A: You could certainly position the head and gun so that it would be possible to get residue on the nightdress.
Q: The point is surely Mr. Fletcher that it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether the wound is self-inflicted or inflicted by anybody else, if the gun is held at a particular angle you might get residue on the nightdress?
A: If held in the correct position certainly. Close to the body at the correct angle for the projection of the bullet in the head.
Q: Why is that correct?
A: To fulfil the requirements for the residue to get on to the nightdress.
Q: It doesn't help us to be certain whether they were self-inflicted or inflicted by another person, does it?
A: It does give a particular set of circumstances. I am trying to tell you what I would expect to find. If some of those circumstances don't occur or were incorrect then my finding, are, as you say, not valid.
Q: Forgive me, I am probably being extremely stupid. Does it help at all? What I am suggesting to you is that it didn't help us at all in deciding whether the wounds were self-inflicted or not self-inflicted. The gun would have had to be in a particular angle to the body in order to deliver the wound in the direction it is in,in either case.
A: Yes. "
it didn't help us at all in deciding whether the wounds were self-inflicted or not self-inflicted. The gun would have had to be in a particular angle to the body in order to deliver the wound in the direction it is in,in either case.
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What has that got to do with no GSR on the nightdress.
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David thinks he can copy & paste a long extract & post it in bold & red. Then everything is ok.
A bit like saying he has a 'forensic evidence breakthrough', then not posting it.
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51.
Mrs Caffell's nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood.
The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found. The scientist gave evidence that there would be a strong chance of finding such residues or markings on the clothing of an individual who had fired a rifle twenty-five times.
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My Sheila scenario is wrong Adam, thanks to information from David Sheila cannot have washed before committing suicide. The level of copper traces on her left hand matched the level of copper on a lab testee who had also loaded 18 bullets into a magazine.
Now that's what I call evidence.
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216.
At trial, Mr Rivlin QC, who appeared for the appellant at trial, sought to counteract this evidence in two ways.
First in cross-examination of the scientist, he drew his attention to traces of other elements in the test results from the swabs, iron and copper, and queried whether these were significant.
The scientist said that they were no more than might have been obtained from the atmosphere. He did not think the copper could have come from the bullets unless they had been scratched.
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My Sheila scenario is wrong Adam, thanks to information from David Sheila cannot have washed before committing suicide. The level of copper traces on her left hand matched the level of copper on a lab testee who had also loaded 18 bullets into a magazine.
Now that's what I call evidence.
The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hands.
49. DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact. The deceased’s feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.
50. Following removal of the bags at the mortuary, Sheila Caffell’s hands and forehead were swabbed. Extremely low traces of lead were detected when the swabs were examined. Such levels being consistent with the levels found from the handling of every day things around the house. These results were compared to hand swabs taken from volunteers at the laboratory who were required to load the magazine with eighteen rounds of ammunition.
Significantly higher traces of lead were found than those recorded on the hands of Mrs Caffell. The scientist Mr Elliott gave evidence that if Sheila Caffell had loaded eighteen cartridges into a magazine he would have expected the hand swabs to have revealed appreciably higher deposits of lead.
51. Mrs Caffell’s nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood. The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found.
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Supporters don't really go by the evidence. Except for the silencer.
It is mainly about Julie, the relatives, Sheila being alive & Nevill calling the police.
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She would have washed etc. before going to bed that night assuming she went to bed, so any traces on her hands at that stage would be minimal to nothing.
I never looked into this because I thought it was accepted her hands were free of GSR. There are several types of bullet that the .22 can fire, I don't know the compositions of lead/copper in each type of bullet and if lead washes off easier than copper so I will look into this more.
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Supporters don't really go by the evidence. Except for the silencer.
It is mainly about Julie, the relatives, Sheila being alive & Nevill calling the police.
I go by the evidence Adam, but I also look very closely at the actions of how people behave. For example Bews running to me is very important to the case. Strips of negatives being cut up etc.
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She would have washed etc. before going to bed that night assuming she went to bed, so any traces on her hands at that stage would be minimal to nothing.
I never looked into this because I thought it was accepted her hands were free of GSR. There are several types of bullet that the .22 can fire, I don't know the compositions of lead/copper in each type of bullet and if lead washes off easier than copper so I will look into this more.
I'm surprised that JB's clothes weren't whisked away for GSR testing because it would have shown up amongst the fibres of his clothing. Then again, so would Sheila's nightdress. Unfortunately her day clothes were soaking in water-----which I think she wore when she shot everyone before she changed into her nightdress.
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I'm surprised that JB's clothes weren't whisked away for GSR testing because it would have shown up amongst the fibres of his clothing. Then again, so would Sheila's nightdress. Unfortunately her day clothes were soaking in water-----which I think she wore when she shot everyone before she changed into her nightdress.
I have not paid much attention to GSR Lookout as I would have expected everyone in the house to have at least some GSR on them? But I never knew that copper traces on Sheila's hands matched with a lab tester loading 18 bullets into a magazine. Adam picks holes in my scenario and does not tell me about this, he is a bit devious I think!
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copper traces on Sheila's hands matched with a lab tester loading 18 bullets into a magazine.
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Uhhh?
I've posted 74 pieces of forensic evidence. Sourced. Against the one alive suspect who had motives, opportunity & no alibi.
Together with a scenario which matches the crime scene.
Not sure what else a guilter can do. But appreciate supporters support Bamber for non evidence reasons.
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I have not paid much attention to GSR Lookout as I would have expected everyone in the house to have at least some GSR on them? But I never knew that copper traces on Sheila's hands matched with a lab tester loading 18 bullets into a magazine. Adam picks holes in my scenario and does not tell me about this, he is a bit devious I think!
I have not paid much attention to GSR Lookout as I would have expected everyone in the house to have at least some GSR on them?
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Why?
But Sheila had none.
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I have not paid much attention to GSR Lookout as I would have expected everyone in the house to have at least some GSR on them?
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Why?
But Sheila had none.
Because if it was suicide, JB or Micky Mouse Sheila must have had GSR on her.
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Because if it was suicide, JB or Micky Mouse Sheila must have had GSR on her.
GSR only goes on the person who fires the shots. Sheila's hands & nightdress had none.
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GSR only goes on the person who fires the shots. Sheila's hands & nightdress had none.
What tests were done on her nightdress do you?
If you are within a few feet of the gun how can you not get GSR on you? unless maybe a contact shot?
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What tests were done on her nightdress do you?
If you are within a few feet of the gun how can you not get GSR on you? unless maybe a contact shot?
Standard tests were carried out on the nightdress.
As stated in reply 67, it shows Sheila did not fire any shots.
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GSR only goes on the person who fires the shots. Sheila's hands & nightdress had none.
Swabs were rejected as having been contaminated. They were taken at varying times which suffice to say that the later they were taken the weaker they got. Apparently the only answer that remained was to say that such an amount which had been detected was the same as if she'd handled a few pots and pans.
Not an ideal conclusion was it ?
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There could quite possibly have been a trace of GSR on the " lost hair !" Which seemingly belonged to Nevill.
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Swabs were rejected as having been contaminated. They were taken at varying times which suffice to say that the later they were taken the weaker they got. Apparently the only answer that remained was to say that such an amount which had been detected was the same as if she'd handled a few pots and pans.
Not an ideal conclusion was it ?
Swabs were rejected as having been contaminated.
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No they were not.
People are entitled to support Bamber's 'Campaign for Freedom'. However it needs to be for non forensic evidence reasons. As there is too much of it.
JackieD bases her support around Julie & the relatives. Lookout because of her 1985 'gut feeling' & Jeremy sending her Christmas cards.
The CT focus on Sheila being alive, Julie & Nevill calling the police.
The exception is the silencer, which the relatives found.
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Your post doesn't make sense Adam.
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You've got to do better than that !
Even the silencer was contaminated---never used and faked for the benefit of those hell-bent on getting Jeremy convicted.
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You've got to do better than that !
Even the silencer was contaminated---never used and faked for the benefit of those hell-bent on getting Jeremy convicted.
That is what I said.
Since the mid 90's Bamber has focused on the silencer. That will create the most conspiracy theories as the relatives found it.
The other forensic evidence is not disputed by the CT.
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That is what I said.
Since the mid 90's Bamber has focused on the silencer. That will create the most conspiracy theories as the relatives found it.
The other forensic evidence is not disputed by the CT.
So, do you think you're getting somewhere now after all these years ? Middle ground perhaps, instead of being one-sided ?
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Sadly, there'd have been none of this nonsense had " Taff " Jones been alive.
The case would have been cut and dried, if there'd been a case at all. " Much Ado About Nothing. ! "