Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on February 17, 2020, 07:20:PM
-
Prosecution case. From COA -
vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:
a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;
b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;
c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;
d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and
e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.
------------
Defence response was -
vii) In respect of the telephone call from his father, the appellant had not initially appreciated the seriousness of the situation and then had become frightened to go to the farm alone
-
It seems both the prosecution and defence dismiss the possibility that Nevill would have phoned Jeremy before being shot. It is too ridiculous.
They must both agree if a fully fit Nevill had time to ring Jeremy, he would have disarmed her instead.
-
This supports the suggestion that Nevill was sleeping when Sheila attached the magazine to the rifle downstairs.
Nevill ran downstairs to phone Jeremy after being shot 4 times upstairs.
Both the prosecution and defence agree Nevill would have only phoned Jeremy after being shot 4 times.
-
(https://www.credocourses.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/straw-man-informal-logical-fallacy-full.jpg)
-
Moderators can you step in please. David is goading again with his images. Despite a recent ban.
Thank you.
-
The suggestions about Sheila being locked in the downstairs toilet, or had slipped upstairs, while a fully fit Nevill rang Jeremy, needs to be dismissed.
Even Bamber's own defence did not suggest these as it's too crazy. Accepting it was after Nevill got his firsr 4 shots. Or nothing.
-
Must admit, Nevill's 9 words to Jeremy do relate to shots being fired.
But surprised Nevill would take the time to ring Jeremy after him & June had been shot 9 times.
-
The suggestions about Sheila being locked in the downstairs toilet, or had slipped upstairs, while a fully fit Nevill rang Jeremy, needs to be dismissed.
Even Bamber's own defence did not suggest these as it's too crazy. Accepting it was after Nevill got his firsr 4 shots. Or nothing.
I don't agree that it's crazy at all. Why shouldn't she be locked in the downstairs toilet?
-
I don't agree that it's crazy at all. Why shouldn't she be locked in the downstairs toilet?
Neither the prosecution or defence put forward the case that Nevill phoned Jeremy prior to shots being fired.
He either phoned after receiving 4 shots. Or not at all.
-
Neither the prosecution or defence put forward the case that Nevill phoned Jeremy prior to shots being fired.
He either phoned after receiving 4 shots. Or not at all.
In their opinion. I'm surprised the defence didn't suggest it. Without doing so, they had no chance.
-
There is a scenario which matches the evidence. Nevill being shot in the bedroom 4 times, running downstairs to phone Jeremy & then having the kitchen fight.
The issue at court was about Nevill phoning Jeremy after being shot 4 times.
Both parties agreed there is nothing realistic matching Nevill phoning Jeremy prior to getting his 4 shots.
-
There is a scenario which matches the evidence. Nevill being shot in the bedroom 4 times, running downstairs to phone Jeremy & then having the kitchen fight.
The issue at court was about Nevill phoning Jeremy after being shot 4 times.
Both parties agree there is nothing realistic matching Nevill phoning Jeremy prior to getting his 4 shots.
That was up to them. I don't agree with them - I have a mind of my own.
-
In their opinion. I'm surprised the defence didn't suggest it. Without doing so, they had no chance.
Do you not believe Nevill would phone Jeremy after being shot 4 times?
-
Do you not believe Nevill would phone Jeremy after being shot 4 times?
No.
-
I have never read a supporter suggest Nevill rang Jeremy after he had been shot 4 times.
However the prosecution and defence believe it is the only credible time he could and would.
-
If fully fit and with the time to phone Jeremy, Nevill would have disarmed Sheila instead.
Both parties agreed.
-
I have never read a supporter suggest Nevill rang Jeremy after he had been shot 4 times.
However the prosecution and defence believe it is the only credible time he could and would.
Why?
-
Why?
Nevill shot upstairs & heads downstairs. Kitchen phone off the hook.
'Gone crazy' - shots fired.
'Got the gun' - shots fired.
Line dead within 5 seconds - shots fired.
---------
All adds up to Nevill ringing Jeremy after he had been shot 4 times. As agreed by both parties. Both knowing there is no credible alternative.
-
The CT are very vague on when Nevill phoned Jeremy. They certainly don't promote him phoning Jeremy after being shot 4 times. However have given no other suggestions.
-
That was up to them. I don't agree with them - I have a mind of my own.
Refreshing. I used to place you at 60/40 in favour of guilt. Then there seemed to be a period where you were more like 55/45 in favour of innocence. Now I'm not sure. I always like to have this imagined scale in my head, regarding members' stances for innocence vs guilt.
-
Why do people believe Nevill rang Jeremy after he had been shot 4 times?
Both the prosecution and Bamber's defence agree this is when the call happened.
-
Nevill rang obviously before he was shot ::)
-
When Bamber was cross examined about the phone call in the drama, he did not suggest it could have been any other time. Don't believe there is anything anywhere from him that it was any other time. His lawyers accepted it was the only possible time.
Don't believe the CT have suggested any other time either.
-
Refreshing. I used to place you at 60/40 in favour of guilt. Then there seemed to be a period where you were more like 55/45 in favour of innocence. Now I'm not sure. I always like to have this imagined scale in my head, regarding members' stances for innocence vs guilt.
:P
I don't know if Nevill did ring Jeremy, but I think it's false to say that he couldn't have done. Of course he could - before he was shot.
-
Why do people believe Nevill rang Jeremy after he had been shot 4 times?
Both the prosecution and Bamber's defence agree this is when the call happened.
What do you mean the prosecution agree when the call happened? I thought they said there was no call. ???
-
What do you mean the prosecution agree when the call happened? I thought they said there was no call. ???
He is saying that both agree Nevil would have called Jeremy after he was shot.
This is very unlikely considering there is nothing in the Judges summing about this. No mention of Nevil being too injured to call.
-
What do you mean the prosecution agree when the call happened? I thought they said there was no call. ???
The prosecution agree the call could only have happened after Nevill had been shot 4 times. But say the call did not happen because -
a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;
b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;
-----------
The defence did not counter by saying the call could have happened before Nevill had been shot 4 times. Bamber's evidence of what Nevill said makes this too ridiculous to suggest.
The OS have never disputed that Nevill made his call after the 4 shots.
-
The prosecution agree the call could only have happened after Nevill had been shot 4 times. But say the call did not happen because -
a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;
b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;
-----------
The defence did not counter by saying the call could have happened before Nevill had been shot 4 times. Bamber's evidence of what Nevill said makes this too ridiculous to suggest.
The OS have never disputed that Nevill made his call after the 4 shots.
There is nothing to stop Nevill picking up a phone prior to getting shot.
-
There is nothing to stop Nevill picking up a phone prior to getting shot.
Too ridiculous for the prosecution, defence and OS to put forward.
The evidence from Bamber on the call resulted in agreement that Nevill rang after being shot 4 times.
-
There is nothing to stop Nevill picking up a phone prior to getting shot.
No, there isn't - I agree, and I don't know why anyone would think that he couldn't have done that.
-
The evidence from Bamber does match Nevill phoning him after receiving 4 shots. From Sheila -
'Please come over'
'Sheila'
'Gone crazy'.
'Got the gun'
The call only lasting around 4 seconds.
----------
A man phoning his son at 3am after being shot 4 times, would be the strangest action anyone has ever done. Of that both supporters and guilters agree.
-
You're just repeating yourself Adam. Sheila going crazy and having the gun doesn't mean she's actually using the gun at the time. They could be two separate things.
-
You're just repeating yourself Adam. Sheila going crazy and having the gun doesn't mean she's actually using the gun at the time. They could be two separate things.
Jeremy when testifying, the defence, prosecution & OS have never suggested this.
-
Jeremy when testifying, the defence, prosecution & OS have never suggested this.
I don't see why you started this thread. If they didn't suggest it, there's nothing much to say, except they should have suggested it, and I've already said that.
-
I don't see why you started this thread. If they didn't suggest it, there's nothing much to say, except they should have suggested it, and I've already said that.
We agree Nevill would not phone Jeremy after being shot 4 times.
However there is disagreement between supporters over this.
-
But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.
Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.
My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.
-
But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.
Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.
My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.
Even if you could prove a call happened. Some will just say he rang his answer phone from the farm.
-
The evidence from Bamber does match Nevill phoning him after receiving 4 shots. From Sheila -
'Please come over'
'Sheila'
'Gone crazy'.
'Got the gun'
The call only lasting around 4 seconds.
----------
A man phoning his son at 3am after being shot 4 times, would be the strangest action anyone has ever done. Of that both supporters and guilters agree.
It does not match neville having been shot . That’s just your assumption.
And I repeat if the call was part of the intricate plan he would have phoned 999 .
Why would he make himself look suspicious.
This crime would have taken very intricate and complicated planning . So he outdid have thought a lot about the “ faked “ call . So there is no reason he as the murderer would not have called 999 .
The call makes less sense with him as the guilty party .
-
The defence would have looked at different alternatives of when Nevill could have phoned. Based on the lenght of the call and what Jeremy said Nevill said to him.
Was Sheila upstairs with the rifle? Was she locked in the shower room?
They concluded and agreed with the prosecution that the call was made after Nevill had been shot 4 times.
The CT have never given an alternative suggestion.
-
The defence suggesting Nevill phoned before being shot, was not an option.
They would have to make up a scenario of how after the call, Nevill then allowed Sheila to get upstairs & then allowed her to shoot him 4 times upstairs, twice from close range in the face.
This would just undermine the defence case as there is no credible scenario. It would also show they did not believe Nevill rang after being shot 4 times.
-
As suggested by David, Nevill could have been sleeping when Sheila got the rifle ready & returned upstairs.
Nevill and June being shot in the bedroom in/by the bed.
Nevill running downsrairs to ring Jeremy.
-
But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.
Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.
My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.
An excellent first post.
Back in 2011/2012, I was told that DS Stan Jones had employed a tactic of telling some witnesses that Jeremy lied about the call he received from his dad and that it never happened. In fact, neither the police nor Jeremy could prove or disprove the existence of Nevill's alleged call to Jeremy.
Imagine if you are told by a detective that Jeremy was lying about that call: what would be the likely impact on your own thinking regarding events, upon receipt of such information? Are you going to question the detective's claims or are you going to start feeling very uneasy about Jeremy?
-
As suggested by David, Nevill could have been sleeping when Sheila got the rifle ready & returned upstairs.
Nevill and June being shot in the bedroom in/by the bed.
Nevill running downsrairs to ring Jeremy.
Ironic since it was the latter who had removed the bedroom telephone in the first place.
-
Ironic since it was the latter who had removed the bedroom telephone in the first place.
There is evidence to suggest that Jeremy did not remove the phone from the bedroom.
He didn't need to remove the phone from the bedroom. All he needed to do was take the phone in the kitchen off the hook so that the line was unavailable from the bedroom.
-
But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.
Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.
My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.
Hello and welcome.
Of course there's reasonable doubt. Whether Jeremy lied about the call or not is a matter of opinion, but I think it's daft to say that he couldn't have received a call from Nevill.
Many people have assumed that Sheila "going crazy" and having the gun means she had shot someone, but that's not necessarily the case.
-
The defence suggesting Nevill phoned before being shot, was not an option.
They would have to make up a scenario of how after the call, Nevill then allowed Sheila to get upstairs & then allowed her to shoot him 4 times upstairs, twice from close range in the face.
This would just undermine the defence case as there is no credible scenario. It would also show they did not believe Nevill rang after being shot 4 times.
They didn't have to make anything up because there's no evidence that Nevill was in bed when he was shot.
-
Ironic since it was the latter who had removed the bedroom telephone in the first place.
Do you believe Nevill would have telephoned Jeremy after being shot 4 times?
The defence and prosecution agree this was the only possible time. This has not been refuted by the CT.
-
::)
-
Do you believe Nevill would have telephoned Jeremy after being shot 4 times?
The defence and prosecution agree this was the only possible time. This has not been refuted by the CT.
You're repeating yourself again. Instead of doing that, perhaps you could explain why you think that Nevill couldn't have phoned Jeremy before he was shot.
-
Do you believe Nevill would have telephoned Jeremy after being shot 4 times?
The defence and prosecution agree this was the only possible time. This has not been refuted by the CT.
Of course not. I don't take Jeremy's story seriously:
-he couldn't remember whether he had telephoned Julie before or after Nevill's call. Obviously if he telephoned her first it gives Jeremy advanced knowledge of the crime.
-he flapped around looking in Yellow Pages for the Chelmsford Police Station number (note it's Jeremy who is the proxy telephone caller to engage police, not Nevill).
-if an uninjured Nevill telephoned Jeremy in an attempt to keep the incident "in-house" it gives Sheila 22 minutes to accomplish her mission.
-
-
You're repeating yourself again. Instead of doing that, perhaps you could explain why you think that Nevill couldn't have phoned Jeremy before he was shot.
It's theoretically possible but highly unlikely, since Nevill would have dealt with the incident himself.
-
Of course not. I don't take Jeremy's story seriously:
-he couldn't remember whether he had telephoned Julie before or after Nevill's call. Obviously if he telephoned her first it gives Jeremy advanced knowledge of the crime.
-he flapped around looking in Yellow Pages for the Chelmsford Police Station number (note it's Jeremy who is the proxy telephone caller to engage police, not Nevill).
-if an uninjured Nevill telephoned Jeremy in an attempt to keep the incident "in-house" it gives Sheila 22 minutes to accomplish her mission.
-
That is a good point. If Nevill was fully fit when ringing Jeremy, it gave Sheila a very small time frame prior to the police arriving.
-
Of course not. I don't take Jeremy's story seriously:
-he couldn't remember whether he had telephoned Julie before or after Nevill's call. Obviously if he telephoned her first it gives Jeremy advanced knowledge of the crime.
-he flapped around looking in Yellow Pages for the Chelmsford Police Station number (note it's Jeremy who is the proxy telephone caller to engage police, not Nevill).
-if an uninjured Nevill telephoned Jeremy in an attempt to keep the incident "in-house" it gives Sheila 22 minutes to accomplish her mission.
-
I agree with that last bit. If Nevill rang Jeremy at about 3.10 and the police got there just before 3.50, it didn't give Sheila very long to do all that. Having said that, how long would it take?
-
I agree with that last bit. If Nevill rang Jeremy at about 3.10 and the police got there just before 3.50, it didn't give Sheila very long to do all that. Having said that, how long would it take?
In her condition all night.
-
I agree with that last bit. If Nevill rang Jeremy at about 3.10 and the police got there just before 3.50, it didn't give Sheila very long to do all that. Having said that, how long would it take?
Less than 10 minutes IMO.
-
In her condition all night.
As soon as anyone receives a shot or serious blow, they are partially incapacitated. Also, they are probably in shock, which may hinder their decision making.
-
In her condition all night.
With 11 shots fired and Sheila coming downstairs to brutally beat Nevill in the kitchen while he spoke to Jeremy for 4 seconds, at least gives her more time to finish everything before the police arrive.
Guessing when Sheila started shooting after a fully fit Nevill made his call, is not plausible. His words do not correspond. Nevill would have also negated Sheila instead.
-
With 11 shots fired and Sheila coming downstairs to brutally beat Nevill in the kitchen while he spoke to Jeremy for 4 seconds, at least gives her more time to finish everything before the police arrive.
Guessing when Sheila started shooting after a fully fit Nevill made his call, is not plausible. His words do not correspond. Nevill would have also negated Sheila instead.
I don't agree with that. If Sheila had started shooting, I doubt Nevill would have rung Jeremy anyway. I don't know why you keep saying that Nevill would have subdued Sheila and disarmed her. He couldn't do that if she was locked in the downstairs shower room. By the time he had a chance to do so, she could have shot him and then his left arm was out of action and he was seriously injured.
-
I don't agree with that. If Sheila had started shooting, I doubt Nevill would have rung Jeremy anyway. I don't know why you keep saying that Nevill would have subdued Sheila and disarmed her. He couldn't do that if she was locked in the downstairs shower room. By the time he had a chance to do so, she could have shot him and then his left arm was out of action and he was seriously injured.
Oh yes. The locking in the shower room.
-
Everything points to Nevill being asleep when Sheila opened fire on June. He woke & started moving, which is why two shots were torso shots from feet away.
He ran downstairs to phone Jeremy. But was only able to speak for 4 seconds before being attacked. This explains why Nevill was found bare footed in pyjamas.
An up and fully fit Nevill would have resolved the situation straight away.
-
Nevill wouldn't have needed to have been " bare-footed " seeing that his slippers were under/near Sheila's bed where he could have lain while Sheila had been in bed with her mother, listening to Bible stories.
Why were Nevill's slippers by Sheila's bed ? Had Nevill intended sleeping in that bed on account of being up early for harvest-time so as not to disturb June ?
No harm in looking at alternate sleeping arrangements ?
-
Everything points to Nevill being asleep when Sheila opened fire on June. He woke & started moving, which is why two shots were torso shots from feet away.
He ran downstairs to phone Jeremy. But was only able to speak for 4 seconds before being attacked. This explains why Nevill was found bare footed in pyjamas.
An up and fully fit Nevill would have resolved the situation straight away.
Even none of his blood being in the bedroom? Of course he contained the blood to spill it all outside later
-
Oh yes. The locking in the shower room.
Why not?
-
Everything points to Nevill being asleep when Sheila opened fire on June. He woke & started moving, which is why two shots were torso shots from feet away.
He ran downstairs to phone Jeremy. But was only able to speak for 4 seconds before being attacked. This explains why Nevill was found bare footed in pyjamas.
An up and fully fit Nevill would have resolved the situation straight away.
No, it doesn't point to Nevill being asleep. There is none of his blood on the bed.
-
No, it doesn't point to Nevill being asleep. There is none of his blood on the bed.
This has already been discussed.
He was already on the move when shot 4 times. So not enough time for blood to spill. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Not a shot gun. Two of these shots were torso shots anyway.
David suggested Nevill was asleep when Sheila was downstairs getting the rifle ready. There is no reason he would wake in the few seconds it took her to walk upstairs.
-
This has already been discussed.
He was already on the move when shot 4 times. So not enough time for blood to spill. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Not a shot gun. Two of these shots were torso shots anyway.
David suggested Nevill was asleep when Sheila was downstairs getting the rifle ready. There is no reason he would wake in the few seconds it took her to walk upstairs.
That's just your opinion, and I don't agree with it. His blood would have been on the bed IMO. His face would have bled a lot.
I can't help what David is suggesting - I'm not David. He could well be right though. Perhaps Nevill heard a noise and got up to investigate. There's no reason to suppose that Sheila would have started shooting straight away.
-
That's just your opinion, and I don't agree with it. His blood would have been on the bed IMO. His face would have bled a lot.
I can't help what David is suggesting - I'm not David. He could well be right though. Perhaps Nevill heard a noise and got up to investigate. There's no reason to suppose that Sheila would have started shooting straight away.
Blood falling from his mouth within 3 seconds?
Maybe Nevill woke & got up before Sheila got upstairs. That was when she locked herself in the shower room.
How an earth did Nevill then end up getting shot 4 times back upstairs in the bedroom. Twice from inches away?
-
Nevill wouldn't have needed to have been " bare-footed " seeing that his slippers were under/near Sheila's bed where he could have lain while Sheila had been in bed with her mother, listening to Bible stories.
Why were Nevill's slippers by Sheila's bed ? Had Nevill intended sleeping in that bed on account of being up early for harvest-time so as not to disturb June ?
No harm in looking at alternate sleeping arrangements ?
Also, because June had been a light sleeper, it would have made more sense for Nevill to have slept in Sheila's room to save disturbing June after him finishing late in the fields.
-
Blood falling from his mouth within 3 seconds?
Maybe Nevill woke & got up before Sheila got upstairs. That was when she locked herself in the shower room.
How an earth did Nevill then end up getting shot 4 times back upstairs in the bedroom. Twice from inches away?
He might not have been shot in the bedroom, he could have been shot on the stairs as he approached the bedroom.
-
He might not have been shot in the bedroom, he could have been shot on the stairs as he approached the bedroom.
Lots of mights.
Did you notice in the drama, the prosecutor mentioned Nevill phoning after he had been shot twice in the mouth. Bamber did not suggest Nevill could have called earlier.
Everyone at trial went by the evidence -
Nevill's short call.
What Nevill said.
Nevill's 4 upstairs shots.
A fully fit Nevill negating the situation instead of phoning anyone.
-
Lots of mights.
Did you notice in the drama, the prosecutor mentioned Nevill phoning after he had been shot twice in the mouth. Bamber did not suggest Nevill could have called earlier.
Everyone at trial went by the evidence -
Nevill's short call.
What Nevill said.
Nevill's 4 upstairs shots.
A fully fit Nevill negating the situation instead of phoning anyone.
Of course there are a lot of "mights". Your idea that Nevill was asleep in bed is also a "might", it's just that you present it differently.
The drama isn't evidence Adam, and there wasn't time to go into all that.
If you're not going to accept anyone else's point of view and their "mights", I'm wasting my time talking to you.
-
Of course there are a lot of "mights". Your idea that Nevill was asleep in bed is also a "might", it's just that you present it differently.
The drama isn't evidence Adam, and there wasn't time to go into all that.
If you're not going to accept anyone else's point of view and their "mights", I'm wasting my time talking to you.
I don't know if the court scenes went by trial transcripts. Apart from 'that is what you have to establish'.
Obviously Nevill was in bed asleep when Bamber entered the bedroom.
The only suggestions of what Nevill was doing when Sheila got the rifle ready is sleeping, showering & watching the TV test card.
A lot of 'mights' would have to happen for Nevill to make a call while fully fit, then end up getting 4 shots upstairs, two from inches away. Too many for even Bamber to ever suggest.
-
I mean the whole episode has a slightly ridiculous 'penny dredful' drama about. Bit of a sledgehammer frame up story. Phone call to police- Sheila gone crazy with gun -phone call to Jeremy Sheila- gone crazy with gun - phone call to Julie -Sheila gone crazy with gun. That should just about do it...
All a bit to hammy and convenient, just sounds as if someone is trying to hard to stitch somebody up. I don't buy it.
-
Yes it was a night of strange phone calls.
Bamber to Julie at 10am. Bamber unable to remember what they spoke about for 20 minutes. Even though he called her.
Nevill to Bamber after being shot 4 times.
Nevill to the fifth furthest away police station.
Bamber to the fifth furthest away police station.
Bamber to Julie to hear a friendly voice.
Bamber to Julie telling her not to go to work.
-
I mean the whole episode has a slightly ridiculous 'penny dredful' drama about. Bit of a sledgehammer frame up story. Phone call to police- Sheila gone crazy with gun -phone call to Jeremy Sheila- gone crazy with gun - phone call to Julie -Sheila gone crazy with gun. That should just about do it...
All a bit to hammy and convenient, just sounds as if someone is trying to hard to stitch somebody up. I don't buy it.
Many people who approach the case to try and understand it, seem to think that the protagonists in the farmhouse and Jeremy himself, should have acted in a completely rational and structured way.
Whether you were bemused or startled (as Jeremy may have been if he was woken through the night) or whether you were terrified and alternating between fight / flight mechanisms within the dreadful situation inside the farmhouse - there is no guarantee you would act in a manner that meets the expectations of anybody trying fathom events from the comfort of a safe distance.
-
Many people who approach the case to try and understand it, seem to think that the protagonists in the farmhouse and Jeremy himself, should have acted in a completely rational and structured way.
Whether you were bemused or startled (as Jeremy may have been if he was woken through the night) or whether you were terrified and alternating between fight / flight mechanisms within the dreadful situation inside the farmhouse - there is no guarantee you would act in a manner that meets the expectations of anybody trying fathom events from the comfort of a safe distance.
Absolutely Roch, completely agree so many combinations of possibilities of what may have happened that night. We can all have theories but that is all they can be and prove nothing.
-
-he couldn't remember whether he had telephoned Julie before or after Nevill's call.
When did he say that? The police questioned him about whether he'd telephoned Julie before or after calling Pc West.
-
After the nightmare that went on I'm surprised JB remembered anything !
-
How can anyone have been expected to think of every detail----except those who had a vested interest ?!
-
When did he say that? The police questioned him about whether he'd telephoned Julie before or after calling Pc West.
Jeremy Bamber was interviewed over four days from Sunday 8 September 1985. To quote the man himself, he " had forgotten the times and the sequence." He told DCI Jones a different tale from DS Jones over that period. (Blood Relations Chapter 19).
As far as the alleged telephone call from Nevill to his son is concerned, you have to fathom the relationship between them. For two decades Nevill had called the shots, he had packed Jeremy off to Gresham's at eight years old, there was very little small talk between them, Jeremy had disappointed academically, yet Nevill was loyal and had stuck by his son, financing two round the world trips, June stepping in when further largesse was required. Maybe they felt guilty at the way they had handled Suzette, which is why they were warming to Julie by Christmas 1984, but I doubt Jeremy was ever going to settle down permanently with her (Malcolm Deckers described her as "too clingy") and as I suspect he was using her to legitimize in his own mind the crimes which were to come.