Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Jan on February 11, 2020, 05:51:PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction
On 7 September 1985, Jeremy Bamber’s ex-girlfriend told police Bamber had discussed killing his family with her and that he was involved. On 29 September, Bamber was charged with the murders. He was convicted in October 1986.
The newly discovered statements show that before the Essex police photographer began taking crime scene photographs at the scene at 10.20am on 7 August, illustrating that Caffell had sustained two gunshot wounds, five senior officers and the police surgeon had seen Caffell and suggested there was only one wound.
At 8.13am a Ch Supt Harris and Ch Insp Gibbons saw Caffell’s body in the main bedroom. In their witness statements written that morning, they described how she appeared. Harris stated: “A .22 rifle was lying along Mrs Caffell’s body, the barrel of which was resting just below an entry wound beneath her chin.” Gibbons said he saw “a younger female with a wound to her throat”.
At 8.25am a police surgeon, Dr Ian Craig, entered the house. He recorded in his witness statement, also written on the morning of 7 August, that “there was what appeared to be an entry wound in the throat”.
In 1986 during the Dickinson inquiry into Essex police’s handling of the case, ordered by the trial judge after Bamber’s conviction, Craig said: “I only saw one gunshot wound at that stage.”
Two Essex police officers, DS Jones and DI Miller, entered the house together at 9.15am. Miller recorded in a report dated 15 August: “The wound appeared to have been made by her own hand.”
Jones made no reference to any wounds in his witness statements until 1991 when he informed a City of London police inquiry that he attended the house the following day with a pathologist, Peter Vanezis, and was surprised to be told Caffell had suffered two gunshot wounds. He told the City of London police: “Up to that point I thought there had been only one.”
PC Wright , the coroner’s officer who provided information for the official coroner’s report dated 9 August, stated: “The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell the wound had been inflicted by her own hand.
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Could mike be right after all ? Or did so many officers make a mistake ?
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Could mike be right after all ? Or did so many officers make a mistake ?
Thank you Jan. I don’t think mike it too far off the target either.
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I knew about one report about one shot , which was of course covered by some excuse but this surely is big news .
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It’s finding the evidence behind it all....only for EP to magically turn things round with a plausible explanation as to what ‘was really meant’, and not what is put in the report.
If that doesn’t work, someone may be sent round to ‘have a quiet word’ in their ear reminding them of where their duty lies....and it’s not with Jeremy.
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It’s finding the evidence behind it all....only for EP to magically turn things round with a plausible explanation as to what ‘was really meant’, and not what is put in the report.
If that doesn’t work, someone may be sent round to ‘have a quiet word’ in their ear reminding them of where their duty lies....and it’s not with Jeremy.
I would like the home office to now offer immunity to any officer that comes forward with information.
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Nothing new.
This is all based on Dr Craig's lousy work. He simply didn't see the second gun shot wound. He never checked Sheila's body temperature or any means to ascertain a time of death. He spent less than a quarter of an hour inside the house. All he did was kick the bodies to see if they were dead then gave Bamber wiskey.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he was Grahams GP at one point. And the guy liked to drink a lot it seemed.
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I would like the home office to now offer immunity to any officer that comes forward with information.
I don’t think that’ll ever apply with regards to Jeremy's case.
At the back of my mind, looking into the family history and their connections, I’ve always felt that some people believe Jeremy knows something that must never be put into the public domain, therefore, giving him a whole life tariff and putting one of his previous solicitors at the CCRC Ensures Jeremy remains where he is, as does the information.
However saying that, I honestly believe Jeremy is not aware of anything that he knows of, that would make others fear his release.
I know it sounds strange and weird.....but it’s always been at the back of mind and remains there to this day.
What is it that Jeremy could expose that would justify such a sentence and would have others lie to secure his imprisonment?
Crazy, I know!
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Nothing new.
This is all based on Dr Craig's lousy work. He simply didn't see the second gun shot wound. He never checked Sheila's body temperature or any means to ascertain a time of death. He spent less than a quarter of an hour inside the house. All he did was kick the bodies to see if they were dead then gave Bamber wiskey.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he was Grahams GP at one point. And the guy liked to drink a lot it seemed.
Yes I had read one document and the dismissal , but 5 officers ? Saying only one shot ?
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Yes I had read one document and the dismissal , but 5 officers ? Saying only one shot ?
Where does it say that?
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Where does it say that?
It does seem a tad more significant than your first post suggests.
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The newly discovered statements show that before the Essex police photographer began taking crime scene photographs at the scene at 10.20am on 7 August, illustrating that Caffell had sustained two gunshot wounds, five senior officers and the police surgeon had seen Caffell and suggested there was only one wound.
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'They say the documents were never seen by the trial jury and suggest that Caffell appeared to have only one gunshot wound when the police entered the crime scene.'
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So, the police took the murder weapon and shot Sheila a second time. Next to the first shot.
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'But after suspicion later turned to Bamber, the prosecution said she could not have taken her own life because she received two bullet wounds to the neck at an interval.'
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Not aware the prosecution said that. An expert did say the evidence shows Sheila did not stand up after the first shot. It is almost certain she was knocked out but still breathing after the first shot.
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'They say the documents were never seen by the trial jury and suggest that Caffell appeared to have only one gunshot wound when the police entered the crime scene.'
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So, the police took the murder weapon and shot Sheila a second time. Next to the first shot.
Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam. Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error? Who knows.
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Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam. Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error? Who knows.
I agree some of what is said was excused before but they are saying more statements have been found .
I suppose we have to wait and see .
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The newly discovered statements show that before the Essex police photographer began taking crime scene photographs at the scene at 10.20am on 7 August, illustrating that Caffell had sustained two gunshot wounds, five senior officers and the police surgeon had seen Caffell and suggested there was only one wound.
Dr Craig's statement of one wound is already on here.
Gibbons said he saw “a younger female with a wound to her throat”.
Miller recorded in a report dated 15 August: “The wound appeared to have been made by her own hand.”
report dated 9 August, stated: “The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell the wound had been inflicted by her own hand.”
This to me just looks like a play on words. If this guy thinks he's going to take the phrase "the wound" and imply that means just one, combined with the observations of a piss head. That's a plan going nowhere fast.
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Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam. Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error? Who knows.
If it was accidental , then they would have tried to cover that up . Definitely .
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Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam. Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error? Who knows.
Could be.
The CT are agreeing Sheila was knocked out/dead after the first shot.
They would have used their own weapons if Sheila was alive and a threat.
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I think this is another dead end. Dr Vanezis said all along that Sheila could have shot herself twice. He also said that the shots were in quick succession in his opinion.
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Dr Craig's statement of one wound is already on here.
Gibbons said he saw “a younger female with a wound to her throat”.
Miller recorded in a report dated 15 August: “The wound appeared to have been made by her own hand.”
report dated 9 August, stated: “The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell the wound had been inflicted by her own hand.”
No I totally agree with you l because the way he reported about the other bodies from what I remember was very similar . So it just showed a sloppy method of reporting . The only importing bit is the reports from other officers if they exist .
This to me just looks like a play on words. If this guy thinks he's going to take the phrase "the wound" and imply that means just one, combined with the observations of a piss head. That's a plan going nowhere fast.
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Ewen Smith, who was Jeremy Bambers solicitor prior to Giovanni de Stefano taking on that role, went to visit Dr Craig and his wife at their home address, to find out at first hand how many bullet entry wounds Sheila had to her neck when he pronounced her as being dead, when her body was laid on the far side of the bed? Craig confirmed that by that stage Sheila only had one bullet wound to her neck!
This visit coincided with the CCRC lending Ewen Smith with previously undisclosed crime scene photographs, and images taken at the mortuary during the autopsy's. U will all no doubt recall that although Ewen Smith was not supposed to let anyone else see this collect of photographs, but that he allowed me access to them in his Birmingham office. I saw many close up grisly images of the wounded victims which was rather distressing. When I saw the photograph of Sheila's body which was laid on top of her parents bed she only had a single bullet entry wound to her neck. There was no blood pouring out of the corner of her mouth, or any second bullet entry wound and there was no triangular shaped bloodstain on the right hand side of her light blue nightdress. I took that photograph without Ewen knowing that I took it. I sent it to Jeremy who was being detained at HMP Full Sutton, nr York. I spoke to Jeremy that evening over the telephone and told him that I had got my hands on a photograph of Sheila's body on top of the bed, with only one bullet wound to her neck. I told him I was sending it into him in accordance with the privilege of a McKensie man. But prison security intercepted my letter and the photograph, and Jeremy was going barmy saying that I had fucked everything up. He was not allowed to see the contents of my letter, or the damning photograph evidence. Jeremy made an appointment to speak to the governor about getting possible access to m6 letter and the photograph, but the governor told Jeremy that he could not have any access, and that the letter with the photograph would be placed on his prison file...
Who took the photograph of Sheila's body laid on top of her parents bed, at a time when she had only been shot once? It can't have been the Witham SOCO's because according to the evidence they didn't get control of the farmhouse until 10 am, and by all accounts, PC Bird didn't start taking photographs until after 10.20am...
Which other 9 photograph negatives were attached to the negative strip, upon which the photograph of Sheila on the bed was taken. The only people who could have taken that photograph were Headquarters SOCO who entered the farmhouse with senior officers when they carried out 'informatives'..
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I think this is another dead end. Dr Vanezis said all along that Sheila could have shot herself twice. He also said that the shots were in quick succession in his opinion.
I also agree with that . Because it was not a main determining incriminating piece of evidence . But if they have found statements and it does suggest that there was an accident , and it was covered up then that would cast serious doubt about what else they are hiding .
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The CT are agreeing Sheila was not alive inside WHF while the police were outside.
She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.
This does not make Bamber innocent. Do not know if it would be sufficient for a technicality.
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Thank goodness the CT have finally dismissed the Sheila alive inside WHF claim.
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Ewen Smith, who was Jeremy Bambers solicitor prior to Giovanni de Stefano taking on that role, went to visit Dr Craig and his wife at their home address, to find out at first hand how many bullet entry wounds Sheila had to her neck when he pronounced her as being dead, when her body was laid on the far side of the bed? Craig confirmed that by that stage Sheila only had one bullet wound to her neck!
This visit coincided with the CCRC lending Ewen Smith with previously undisclosed crime scene photographs, and images taken at the mortuary during the autopsy's. U will all no doubt recall that although Ewen Smith was not supposed to let anyone else see this collect of photographs, but that he allowed me access to them in his Birmingham office. I saw many close up grisly images of the wounded victims which was rather distressing. When I saw the photograph of Sheila's body which was laid on top of her parents bed she only had a single bullet entry wound to her neck. There was no blood pouring out of the corner of her mouth, or any second bullet entry wound and there was no triangular shaped bloodstain on the right hand side of her light blue nightdress. I took that photograph without Ewen knowing that I took it. I sent it to Jeremy who was being detained at HMP Full Sutton, nr York. I spoke to Jeremy that evening over the telephone and told him that I had got my hands on a photograph of Sheila's body on top of the bed, with only one bullet wound to her neck. I told him I was sending it into him in accordance with the privilege of a McKensie man. But prison security intercepted my letter and the photograph, and Jeremy was going barmy saying that I had fucked everything up. He was not allowed to see the contents of my letter, or the damning photograph evidence. Jeremy made an appointment to speak to the governor about getting possible access to m6 letter and the photograph, but the governor told Jeremy that he could not have any access, and that the letter with the photograph would be placed on his prison file...
Who took the photograph of Sheila's body laid on top of her parents bed, at a time when she had only been shot once? It can't have been the Witham SOCO's because according to the evidence they didn't get control of the farmhouse until 10 am, and by all accounts, PC Bird didn't start taking photographs until after 10.20am...
Which other 9 photograph negatives were attached to the negative strip, upon which the photograph of Sheila on the bed was taken. The only people who could have taken that photograph were Headquarters SOCO who entered the farmhouse with senior officers when they carried out 'informatives'..
The thing is they are claiming they have found evidence that 5 senior officers knew about this , but would they have dared to write this down anywhere ? It doe not seem feasible does it ?
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The CT are agreeing Sheila was not alive inside WHF while the police were outside.
She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.
This does not make Bamber innocent. Do not know if it would be sufficient for a technicality.
That can't be. Dead bodies don't bleed - not for long anyway.
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The CT are agreeing Sheila was not alive inside WHF while the police were outside.
She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.
This does not make Bamber innocent. Do not know if it would be sufficient for a technicality.
I agree . However it would cast serious doubt on the excuses they have made for other alleged evidence .
To be honest for the reasons I have stated above I am not sure either .
Just being honest .
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I think this is another dead end. Dr Vanezis said all along that Sheila could have shot herself twice. He also said that the shots were in quick succession in his opinion.
Dr Venezia didn't witness Sheila getting shot twice!
Another pathologist who testified during the trial (professor Knight), told of the likelihood that half an hour or so could have elapsed between each of the two shots being fired, and that it was possible that Sheila might still have been able to walk around before she received the second fatal shot upstairs in the main bedroom. I do not believe that Knight meant that Sheila was moving around continually throughout the half hour period he mentioned, but rather that she could have collapsed and eventually recovered and made her way onto the bed in her parents bedroom where she collapsed into unconscioussness..
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That can't be. Dead bodies don't bleed - not for long anyway.
You say that but they said in the Michael Barrymore case that Stuart lubbock was still bleeding at the mortuary . I was really surprised at that .
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That can't be. Dead bodies don't bleed - not for long anyway.
Dead bodies don't bleed. Not sure how that relates.
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The Sheila in the kitchen was always a terrible claim. The CT will have to amend their website.
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Dr craig only mentions one would for each victim . So that’s the way he reported , very weird considering the other things he mentions that are irrelevant .
But that is a fact .
So it is only the other officers statements that would be of interest .
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Dr Venezia didn't witness Sheila getting shot twice!
Another pathologist who testified during the trial (professor Knight), told of the likelihood that half an hour or so could have elapsed between each of the two shots being fired, and that it was possible that Sheila might still have been able to walk around before she received the second fatal shot upstairs in the main bedroom. I do not believe that Knight meant that Sheila was moving around continually throughout the half hour period he mentioned, but rather that she could have collapsed and eventually recovered and made her way onto the bed in her parents bedroom where she collapsed into unconscioussness..
Professor Knight first said it could be anything from five seconds to half an hour. He then said that half an hour was too long, and it was more likely to be a few minutes.
Sheila clearly didn't walk around - that is obvious to me.
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I think this is another dead end. Dr Vanezis said all along that Sheila could have shot herself twice. He also said that the shots were in quick succession in his opinion.
What about the reports from professor Marco Meloni and professor Calvani? I know they were rejected (CCRC objected on the grounds they working from crime scene images and testimony, as opposed to Sheila's corpse). They placed time of death closer to the TFG op.
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Dead bodies don't bleed. Not sure how that relates.
This is what you said:
She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.
If she was already dead and the police shot her again, she wouldn't have bled, and she clearly bled from both wounds.
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What about the reports from professor Marco Meloni and professor Calvani? I know they were rejected (CCRC objected on the grounds they working from crime scene images and testimony, as opposed to Sheila's corpse). They placed time of death closer to the TFG op.
I haven't seen those reports.
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I haven't seen those reports.
Used to be able to see them online but it was the Di Stefano era and the site is no longer up (I think). It was called Studio-Legale or something.
Mike, have you got copies? ???
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Sheila was shot downstairs in the kitchen, at least one senior police officer confirmed that two bodies were found upon entry to the kitchen, the details of which are recorded in his witness statement, which carries the following citation at the beginning of the statement:-
'This Statement, consisting of - pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tended in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true'..
Surely, if there was only ever one body in the kitchen upon entry by the firearm officers, and there had been something of a mix up in communications, where the body of a dead male, was mistakenly believed to be the body of a dead female, then that would have been settled there and then at the farmhouse..
But, this senior officer (Gibbons) confirms there had been two bodies found in the kitchen upon entry, and he was accompanied by Harris and Montgomery, when after 8.10am, they all entered the kitchen farmhouse and discovered Sheila was no longer there. This caused panic to those who were present inside the kitchen, and DCI Harris was requested to use the house land line from the farmhouse to update Peter Simpson regarding how the operation had just gone pear shaped..
The statement made by Gibbons, recorded the truth, two bodies found upon entry to the kitchen, accounted for accurately, in a witness statement that was typed out long after the other cops had got their story right about their having been some sort of a mix up where one dead male body had mistakenly been misidentified as a dead female...
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This is what you said:
If she was already dead and the police shot her again, she wouldn't have bled, and she clearly bled from both wounds.
What becomes apparent to me, is that one of the bullet entry wounds on Sheila's neck, had a plug of dried blood in it, which subsequently got disconnected when the police who tried to revive Sheila and keep her alive after she was shot on the second occasion, by putting her body on the bedroom floor in the recovery position, and applying therapy! It becomes clear to me, that at some point after Sheila received the second shot, that her head thrashed side to side or up and down, and that this movement caused the plug of dried blood in the original wound to become detached elsewhere on the surface of her neck. Pooled blood which had gathered in the path that the first bullet travelled along, leaked out of the open wound...
And, that this coincided with the fresh blood from the more recent second shot, pouring from the second bullet entry wound and the corner of her mouth, and one nostril, blood which ran diagonally across Sheila's neck, and pooled in her left eye socket..
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This is what you said:
If she was already dead and the police shot her again, she wouldn't have bled, and she clearly bled from both wounds.
'Dead bodies don't bleed' is what Jan said.
I said I was not sure what that was supposed to mean.
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This is what you said:
If she was already dead and the police shot her again, she wouldn't have bled, and she clearly bled from both wounds.
What becomes apparent to me, is that one of the bullet entry wounds on Sheila's neck, had a plug of dried blood in it, which subsequently got disconnected when the police who tried to revive Sheila and keep her alive after she was shot on the second occasion, by putting her body on the bedroom floor in the recovery position, and applying therapy! It becomes clear to me, that at some point after Sheila received the second shot, that her head thrashed side to side or up and down, and that this movement caused the plug of dried blood in the original wound to become detached elsewhere on the surface of her neck. Pooled blood which had gathered in the path that the first bullet travelled along, leaked out of the open wound...
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'Dead bodies don't bleed' is what Jan said.
I said I was not sure what that was supposed to mean.
When did I say that ?
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'Dead bodies don't bleed' is what Jan said.
I said I was not sure what that was supposed to mean.
That's what I said, not Jan. Jan says they can bleed.
If someone is dead, the heart is no longer pumping blood around.
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Julie said she only saw one wound when she visited the mortuary---so what's going on ?
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When did I say that ?
Sorry it was Kaldin. Reply 26.
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That's what I said, not Jan. Jan says they can bleed.
If someone is dead, the heart is no longer pumping blood around.
Sheila was knocked out but still alive after the first shot. So Jeremy fired the second shot.
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If Craig only saw one gunshot---as I remember him saying, then there could only have been one because photo's show " two " at close proximity and couldn't have been mistaken as one.
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Sheila was knocked out but still alive after the first shot. So Jeremy fired the second shot.
That's not what you said before.
She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.
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If Craig only saw one gunshot---as I remember him saying, then there could only have been one because photo's show " two " at close proximity and couldn't have been mistaken as one.
There could have been a mirror image going on if her head was bent making her jaw drop on to her chest, meaning that the crease in her neck would have created the illusion of two shots.
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There could have been a mirror image going on if her head was bent making her jaw drop on to her chest, meaning that the crease in her neck would have created the illusion of two shots.
I think Dr Vanezis would have picked up on that.
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I think Dr Vanezis would have picked up on that.
Why did he say one when the other shot was right underneath ? Julie said one when she saw her at the mortuary.
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Sorry I thought you meant Craig----even so, why did Craig say one ? It was obvious right at the front of her neck that it had appeared there were two.
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Why did he say one when the other shot was right underneath ? Julie said one when she saw her at the mortuary.
Dr Vanezis didn't say there was one shot, he said there were two. He even tracked them both.
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Sorry I thought you meant Craig----even so, why did Craig say one ? It was obvious right at the front of her neck that it had appeared there were two.
No idea. Perhaps he didn't look very closely, and he was only expecting one.
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No idea. Perhaps he didn't look very closely, and he was only expecting one.
It's not the same as there being two though, they were close enough together-----even though there's an " interruption " in the blood flow coming from the second shot close to the wound.
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Where's DI Miller's pocketbook ? He was the one who reported seeing one bullet injury as well as the one who found Sheila on the bed, according to David Shaw.
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Sorry I thought you meant Craig----even so, why did Craig say one ? It was obvious right at the front of her neck that it had appeared there were two.
Craig only said one wound for each victim . It’s the other officers statements they say they have which are important .
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That's not what you said before.
Was saying what the CT are now saying. Providing The Guardian article is correct.
At least the CT have stopped the ridiculous Sheila was alive in the kitchen when the police were outside.
Both supporters and guilters agree she was in dead in the main bedroom.
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Was saying what the CT are now saying. Providing The Guardian article is correct.
At least the CT have stopped the ridiculous Sheila was alive in the kitchen when the police were outside.
Both supporters and guilters agree she was in dead in the main bedroom.
No, she wasn't, she was confronted in the kitchen when the firearm officers entered, as confirmed by Terrie Gibbons witness statement, two bodies found on entry by 7.35am!
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The thing is they are claiming they have found evidence that 5 senior officers knew about this , but would they have dared to write this down anywhere ? It doe not seem feasible does it ?
There exists a further five Crime reference numbers, which are totally different to the disclosed two that we know of (relating to the original investigation, 7th August 1985 until 7th September 1985 - SC/688/85), and then afterwards when Jeremy was arrested, bailed, and subsequently rearrested (7th September 1985, onwards - SC/786/85), the documentary evidence contained in each of these two crime reference files, have become partly integrated into both files, in order to prosecute Jeremy Bambers for the collective five murders!
Different documentary evidence was gathered into and became an integral part of these other crime reference files, related in connection with the individual shootings of all five victims. Of particular interest, is the unique crime reference file, put together regarding the circumstances surrounding the shooting incidents of Sheila Caffell after the firearm officers entered the farmhouse. The truth surrounding how, where and when Sheila was shot is contained in her personal crime reference file, held at Southend-on-Sea police station (Special Branch, Department)...
Just so that you and others are made aware, the evidence gathered in the two crime reference files (SC/688/85, and SC/786/85), do not tally entirely. In the first of these two files (SC/688/85), is contained all the evidence regarding the 'informatives' carried out by senior officers, and the role played by headquarters SOCO, in the restaging of the various crime scenes inside the farmhouse, and the fact that the first team of SOCO's recovered, and redistributed spent cartridge cases in accordance with how the police had rearranged the position of the three adult victims bodies after Sheila was accidentally shot on the second occasion once her body had been removed from on top of her parents bed, and placed onto the bedroom floor!
Jeremy Bamber implored me to believe that he did not harm his sister, he needed her to be alive so that she would take the wrap for the other deaths, having reassured her that he would make sure that she would get half of their parents inheritance...
In my opinion, Jeremy made an error, in going along with the original Essex police narrative (crime reference file, SC/688/85), that Sheila killed the others, and then took her own life! This was despite the fact that he knew that Sheila was still very much alive by the time (3.36am) he spoke to PC West in the control room at Chelmsford police station..
The relatives had their suspicion that something was just not right, with the narrative that Sheila had shot dead her young boys, as well as both her adoptive parents and then before the police gained entry into the farmhouse at just after 7.30am, that she had taken her own life on the parents bedroom floor!
The relatives were right in assuming that Sheila had not physically shot any of the other four victims!
The relatives were spot on in their belief that Sheila could not have shot herself twice in the throat - because she hadn't and she didn't. The problem insofar as the circumstances surrounding the death of Sheila are / were concerned, is that they mistook the actions of the police, as though Jeremy was responsible for having done that which police were responsible for having done to Sheila, whether it had been the right thing to do or not, in the overall circumstances of Sheila's death...
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I believe that I have already identified the individual crime reference files in connection with the individual five victims, elsewhere in another thread previously!
The damning evidence which proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the firearm officers shot and killed Sheila Caffell is a formidable part of these other case files!
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I would also like to draw everyone's attention to the fact that in each of the two official crime reference files (SC/866/85 and SC/786/85), that various items of evidential value, are referred to by conflicting exhibit references!
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I would also like to draw everyone's attention to the fact that in each of the two official crime reference files (SC/866/85 and SC/786/85), that various items of evidential value, are referred to by conflicting exhibit references!
In this respect, the evidence has clearly been tampered with to support the prosecution of Jeremy Bamber for all five of these murders, when at best he could have (did) have some role in the deaths of the other four victims!
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Jeremy sought me out with a view of me trying to help him, because cops and his relatives stitched him up, for all five of the murders, by a reliance upon the claim that a Sound Moderator had been attached to the end of the guns barrel when she was shot, and that after she had died and was killed, that she couldn't have taken the Sound Moderator off the end of the rifles barrell and taken it all the way downstairs to conceal it inside a gun cupboard inside the downstairs office...
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Jeremy sought me out with a view of me trying to help him, because cops and his relatives stitched him up, for all five of the murders, by a reliance upon the claim that a Sound Moderator had been attached to the end of the guns barrel when she was shot, and that after she had died and was killed, that she couldn't have taken the Sound Moderator off the end of the rifles barrell and taken it all the way downstairs to conceal it inside a gun cupboard inside the downstairs office...
Well..
She didn't, and she hadn't!
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I 100% believe that Jeremy Bamber did not, had not harmed his sister Sheila Caffell by way of shooting her, so that all their parents inheritance would come solely to him!
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I 100% believe that Jeremy Bamber did not, had not harmed his sister Sheila Caffell by way of shooting her, so that all their parents inheritance would come solely to him!
He needed her alive, so that all their parents inheritance would subsequently come to him anyway, because Sheila would be held accountable and sectioned off for killing off her two young boys, and both adoptive parents!
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He needed her alive, so that all their parents inheritance would subsequently come to him anyway, because Sheila would be held accountable and sectioned off for killing off her two young boys, and both adoptive parents!
I doubt that would work. Sheila could just say it wasn't me, it was Jeremy. And then proceed to give details of what happened inside the farmhouse. Relatives would be interested in her version of events.
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Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam. Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error? Who knows.
The only logical explanation Roch that the rifle went off inadvertently as Sheila and the gun were moved. It would have only taken a hairs breadth for it to have gone off---hence the " cut-off of flow directly from the wound as she'd already have been dead so it wouldn't have pumped out.
Own up EP !! It was an accident.
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No, she wasn't, she was confronted in the kitchen when the firearm officers entered, as confirmed by Terrie Gibbons witness statement, two bodies found on entry by 7.35am!
I’ve got to say, I’m still with mike on this one. I’m going to need some serious convincing Sheila was already dead before the police stormed the building.
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Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam. Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error? Who knows.
The location of the gun as found, and the trajectory of the shot into the brain preclude the scenario of accidental discharge. Unless they picked the gun up by the trigger and held it at an angle and also pressed in against the chin. That's a ludicrous scenario IMO.
Its also been suggested that Sheila originally had her chin down obscuring the wound. But anyone looking at the photos with a basic understanding of gravity knows that didn't happen.
Dr Craig simply didn't notice the other shot because he wasn't paying enough attention.
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The location of the gun as found, and the trajectory of the shot into the brain preclude the scenario of accidental discharge. Unless they picked the gun up by the trigger and held it at an angle and also pressed in against the chin. That's a ludicrous scenario IMO.
Its also been suggested that Sheila originally had her chin down obscuring the wound. But anyone looking at the photos with a basic understanding of gravity knows that didn't happen.
Dr Craig simply didn't notice the other shot because he wasn't paying enough attention.
It was not even that . If you check his report he only noted one wound on EVERY victim
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Jeremy sought me out with a view of me trying to help him, because cops and his relatives stitched him up, for all five of the murders, by a reliance upon the claim that a Sound Moderator had been attached to the end of the guns barrel when she was shot, and that after she had died and was killed, that she couldn't have taken the Sound Moderator off the end of the rifles barrell and taken it all the way downstairs to conceal it inside a gun cupboard inside the downstairs office...
so why did you take so long to reveal this vital bit of information when you knew this years ago ?
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Mike this is a quote from YOU
so what is the truth ?
"The shocking truth, is that they police did what they accused Jeremy of doing, and for over 25 years, they have kept silent and allowed an innocent man, to be incarcerated for killing members of his family, which the police know, and the CPS know he could not have been responsible for committing...
The truth about what really took place inside whf once armed police forced their way in, is well documented amongst the 300,000 documents and photographs which are currently being deliberately withheld under pii rules...
The Criminal Justice System should hang its head in shame, police helped to manufacture a false case against an innocent man, and they left him to rot in jail, rather than the police own up to what really did happen inside the farmhouse after they entered it"
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Also this in an article in the star. About a past interview ?
”In the interview, DS Stanley Brian Jones claims the scene was immediately treated as "four murders and a suicide" because the team had a "note saying I've killed myself."
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By whom I wonder ?
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There is so much flying around at the moment it’s hard to keep up with it all .
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It's easier to say that they all killed each other.
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The CT will tout anything to the media. Nevill calling the police, suicide notes, rifles in the windows.
It is up to the media what they run with. Surprised the Guardian ran with this.
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The Guardian is on Jeremy's side.
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The Guardian is on Jeremy's side.
Agreed they have done several articles supporting Jeremy .
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I’ve got to say, I’m still with mike on this one. I’m going to need some serious convincing Sheila was already dead before the police stormed the building.
Haven't really commented on this, but if you killed all your family would you use the alibi that Sheila was alive when the Police arrived. Inferring it was them who killed her. The whole sorry saga is one big mess & blame game.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/audio/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-audio
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Nothing new.
This is all based on Dr Craig's lousy work. He simply didn't see the second gun shot wound. He never checked Sheila's body temperature or any means to ascertain a time of death. He spent less than a quarter of an hour inside the house. All he did was kick the bodies to see if they were dead then gave Bamber wiskey.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he was Grahams GP at one point. And the guy liked to drink a lot it seemed.
That is correct. He did like his drink and put the time of death all at the same time that is the time he examined the bodies, My father in law was a policeman in the London river police and used to attend a lot of crime scenes. At one time he attended a scene where the doctor present was not sure of the time of death. My father inlaw placed his had upon the victim's abdomen which was still warm. He told me that the abdomen is the last place on the body that loses heat. I wonder whether Dr. Craig could have been more precie in his estimation ofd the time of death? Because by the time the bodies had reached the post mortem it would have been too late to estimate time of death. So yes I believe that Dr. Craig was a bit lazy in his examination.
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Where's DI Miller's pocketbook? He was the one who reported seeing one bullet injury as well as the one who found Sheila on the bed, according to David Shaw.
For the benefit of new readers who haven't read David Shaw's account, you can start reading it by using this link (http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-by-david-shaw.html). Bear in mind that this account was never finished and comes across as partly made up.
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That is correct. He did like his drink and put the time of death all at the same time that is the time he examined the bodies, My father in law was a policeman in the London river police and used to attend a lot of crime scenes. At one time he attended a scene where the doctor present was not sure of the time of death. My father inlaw placed his had upon the victim's abdomen which was still warm. He told me that the abdomen is the last place on the body that loses heat. I wonder whether Dr. Craig could have been more precie in his estimation ofd the time of death? Because by the time the bodies had reached the post mortem it would have been too late to estimate time of death. So yes I believe that Dr. Craig was a bit lazy in his examination.
According to the Dickinson report Dr Craig done nothing to establish a time of death for Sheila.
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I wonder why the CT are mainly repeating old news. Just to keep it all in the public eye I guess .
Still don’t think it does them any favours .
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I wonder why the CT are mainly repeating old news. Just to keep it all in the public eye I guess .
Still don’t think it does them any favours .
Some of the stuff they claim is actually effective but for the wrong reasons. There are people new to the case that believe in JBs innocence because they heard about Nevils alleged call. In the same way people new to the case think JB is guilty because he had crispy put down.
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I think CT are just hanging fire until such times as the legal team can move forward, so meanwhile keeping the account going by using repeats or it would remain blank.
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Some of the stuff they claim is actually effective but for the wrong reasons. There are people new to the case that believe in JBs innocence because they heard about Nevils alleged call. In the same way people new to the case think JB is guilty because he had crispy put down.
Some old heads suck up Vanezis' testimony like mother's milk. Vespae. 😉
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For the benefit of new readers who haven't read David Shaw's account, you can start reading it by using this link (http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-by-david-shaw.html). Bear in mind that this account was never finished and comes across as partly made up.
The link doesn't work. Or at least, the link on the YKWKYDY page doesn't work. I would like to access this work to read it again myself. Anyone know of any other links?
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The link doesn't work. Or at least, the link on the YKWKYDY page doesn't work. I would like to access this work to read it again myself. Anyone know of any other links?
I don't know why it disappeared. There was another article "By Dawn They Were Dead", which seems to be available via the Times newspaper. I can only find Part 6 of the first one. http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-part-6david-shaw.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-bamber-murders-and-by-dawn-they-were-all-dead-wjjsf7rphrf
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The link doesn't work. Or at least, the link on the YKWKYDY page doesn't work. I would like to access this work to read it again myself. Anyone know of any other links?
My mistake, I was clicking on the wrong thing.
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In case others make a similar slip, scroll down on each page to get past the picture. On the first page, there is a contents list, then the introduction. Chapters 16 onwards are mentioned in the contents list, but seem never to have been written. To continue reading beyond the introduction, use the Newer Post link below the end of the introduction (or whatever subsequent part has been read). After Part 7, the title changes from "An Innocent Man" to "The Innocent Man". The book continues until Part 16 (which contains Chapter 15). The Newer Post links then link to related material.
The book and related material were uploaded many years ago, so don't assume that they will remain indefinitely - I don't know whether the blog's author (SteelMagnolia) is still around. Google has cached various parts that I checked, but Google's copies may not remain indefinitely.
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Remember reading this years ago. Such a shame we never got to see Chapters 16 through 19 *sigh*.
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I have saved the Innocent Man as a pdf for those who are having trouble with the link.