Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 10:48:AM

Title: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 10:48:AM
These are the only suggestions so far. Feel free to vote.

Any new suggestions will be added to the poll.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load?
Post by: sami on February 03, 2020, 01:34:PM
yes adam please add none of the above as a question
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 05:32:PM
Once a credible explanation of what Nevill was doing has been made, an explanation of how Nevill found the time to ring Jeremy needs to be suggested.

If Sheila was enraged enough to wake, go downstairs bare footed/in a nightie & then load, seeing Nevill would just make her start shooting. So no time for phone calls. 

If Sheila was holding the rifle but calm, Nevill would reclaim the rifle and lock it away. So no need for phone calls.

Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 03, 2020, 07:03:PM
When you say "load", do you mean attach the magazine to the rifle?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Roch on February 03, 2020, 07:13:PM
When you say "load", do you mean attach the magazine to the rifle?

I think he's picturing Sheila laboriously loading each bullet.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 07:55:PM
When you say "load", do you mean attach the magazine to the rifle?

Pick up the rifle & magazine. Load, attach, chamber, check how many bullets there were.

What do you believe Nevill was doing?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 03, 2020, 08:04:PM
Pick up the rifle & magazine. Load, attach, chamber, check how many bullets there were.

What do you believe Nevill was doing?

The magazine was supposed to have bullets in it already, so she didn't need to load it.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 08:07:PM
The magazine was supposed to have bullets in it already, so she didn't need to load it.

Do you believe Nevill was having a shower, sleeping or watching the TV test card?

Or do you have another suggestion?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 03, 2020, 08:19:PM
Do you believe Nevill was having a shower, sleeping or watching the TV test card?

Or do you have another suggestion?

Unless you can address my questions, your questions have no validity. You appear to be suggesting that Sheila loaded the first magazine. I asked you about this last time you suggested such a thing, and you ignored the question.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 08:30:PM
Unless you can address my questions, your questions have no validity. You appear to be suggesting that Sheila loaded the first magazine. I asked you about this last time you suggested such a thing, and you ignored the question.

Oh right. I was hopeing my poll would clarify.

It is acceptable to agree with sleeping. There were 9 shots fired from June's side of the bed.

Why and how Nevill phoned Bamber after this is another question.

Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 03, 2020, 08:39:PM
Oh right. I was hopeing my poll would clarify.

It is acceptable to agree with sleeping. There were 9 shots fired from June's side of the bed.

Why and how Nevill phoned Bamber after this is another question.

I haven't agreed to anything. You persist with this idea that Sheila must have loaded the magazine before anyone was shot. If she shot them, that didn't happen, so your whole poll is based on a lie.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 08:43:PM
124. 

During this conversation the appellant said he saw rabbits outside the house so he took the .22 rifle from the office/den, loaded it with eight to ten rounds from a box of ammunition that he left in the kitchen and went outside. 

In fact he fired no shots outside and he then left the gun in the kitchen having removed the magazine and the bullet which was in the breach. 
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 03, 2020, 08:46:PM
There you are then. If Sheila shot them, she didn't load the magazine at first - it was already loaded.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 03, 2020, 08:47:PM
I haven't agreed to anything. You persist with this idea that Sheila must have loaded the magazine before anyone was shot. If she shot them, that didn't happen, so your whole poll is based on a lie.

The majority of his posts are based on a lie. Nothing new here.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 08:53:PM
There you are then. If Sheila shot them, she didn't load the magazine at first - it was already loaded.

What do you believe Nevill could have been doing when Sheila -

Saw the rifle.

Saw the magazine.

Picked up the rifle.

Picked up the magazine.

Checked to see if the magazine was loaded.

Put the magazine in the rifle.

Chambered the rifle.

Put the bullet back in the breach.

Put the silencer on.

----------

The most logical explanation is sleeping. Nevill and June were shot 9 times from June's side of the bed in the opening round of shots.

Obviously this makes Nevill's call to Jeremy more unlikely.

Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 09:00:PM
Maybe an injured Nevill went downstairs to phone Jeremy.

Sheila stayed upstairs to look for June's bible.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Jan on February 03, 2020, 11:08:PM
Sarcasm is not really appropriate.

None of us even know where the rifle was because the family said neville would have put it away . Shame he did not have a locked gun cupboard . Perhaps then none of this would have happened.

Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 03, 2020, 11:34:PM
Sarcasm is not really appropriate.

None of us even know where the rifle was because the family said neville would have put it away . Shame he did not have a locked gun cupboard . Perhaps then none of this would have happened.

Does not matter where the rifle was. It was not locked away that is what everyone agrees with.

If Nevill was awake he would not have let Sheila out of his site if she was being agressive. So she would not have had the opportunity to set herself up with the rifle.

Nevill watching the TV test card or having a shower at 3am is a no go. Nevill would have been shot first downstairs or in the shower room.

Nevill sleeping matches the evidence. The opening 9 main bedroom shots being from June's side of the bed. But then surely it is then too late to then ring Jeremy.

Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 09:40:AM
Sarcasm is not really appropriate.

None of us even know where the rifle was because the family said neville would have put it away . Shame he did not have a locked gun cupboard . Perhaps then none of this would have happened.





Especially with two curious little boys about ! That's a crime in itself not to have kept guns etc under lock and key.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 10:17:AM




Especially with two curious little boys about ! That's a crime in itself not to have kept guns etc under lock and key.
the crime was jb leaving the rifle out when it would have taken him 60 seconds to replace it back in the cupboard
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 10:47:AM
the crime was jb leaving the rifle out when it would have taken him 60 seconds to replace it back in the cupboard






Nevill was known to put firearms etc away in the cupboard at the end of the day so JB would have just left it out for his dad to see to.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 10:55:AM





Nevill was known to put firearms etc away in the cupboard at the end of the day so JB would have just left it out for his dad to see to.
and take that risk that neville may not see it.he took it from the cupboard when he saw rabbits its up to him to replace it and not dump the responsibility on some one else.the buck stops with him
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 11:01:AM
and take that risk that neville may not see it.he took it from the cupboard when he saw rabbits its up to him to replace it and not dump the responsibility on some one else.the buck stops with him






Why wouldn't Nevill have seen it ?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 11:06:AM





Why wouldn't Nevill have seen it ?

Good question.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 11:09:AM
well you cant have it both ways if neville saw it he put it away.if it was where jb claimed to have left it ;)
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 11:12:AM
well you cant have it both ways if neville saw it he put it away.if it was where jb claimed to have left it ;)






JB hadn't " claimed " he'd left it anywhere except on the settle.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 11:16:AM
It is a catalogue of errors.

Firstly Bamber cannot be bothered to spend an extra 20 seconds putting the rifle & magazine back where he collected it from. Even though he had made the effort to take out the magazine and bullet from the breach.

Then Nevill and June do not put the rifle and magazine away.

Then Sheila sees it while everyone is asleep.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 11:24:AM
It is a catalogue of errors.

Firstly Bamber cannot be bothered to spend an extra 20 seconds putting the rifle & magazine back where he collected it from. Even though he had made the effort to take out the magazine and bullet from the breach.

Then Nevill and June do not put the rifle and magazine away.

Then Sheila sees it while everyone is asleep.
yes and once she finds it she heads to the master bedroom and starts shooting.hence no call could possible have been made by neville the shot to the jaw would render him unable to talk
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 11:57:AM
yes and once she finds it she heads to the master bedroom and starts shooting.hence no call could possible have been made by neville the shot to the jaw would render him unable to talk

It is most likely that Nevill was asleep when Sheila got the rifle ready. Even David agrees.

This matches the evidence of Sheila firing 9 shots into June and Nevill from June's side of the bed.

After getting shot 4 times,  surely it was now too late for Nevill to ring Jeremy.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 12:50:PM
It is most likely that Nevill was asleep when Sheila got the rifle ready. Even David agrees.

This matches the evidence of Sheila firing 9 shots into June and Nevill from June's side of the bed.

After getting shot 4 times,  surely it was now too late for Nevill to ring Jeremy.
yes i also agree with that theory
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Caroline on February 04, 2020, 12:55:PM





Why wouldn't Nevill have seen it ?

Exactly!

He didn't see it because there were no rabbits, Bamber didn't try and shoot them and he had the gun hidden, already loaded for use.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Caroline on February 04, 2020, 12:57:PM





JB hadn't " claimed " he'd left it anywhere except on the settle.

He didn't say he left the rifle 'on the settle', he said that's where he left the magazine. He said he left the rifle stood next to the wellington boots, which is assume is next to where the coats are. Easily hidden between the coats.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2020, 01:03:PM
It is most likely that Nevill was asleep when Sheila got the rifle ready. Even David agrees.

This matches the evidence of Sheila firing 9 shots into June and Nevill from June's side of the bed.

After getting shot 4 times,  surely it was now too late for Nevill to ring Jeremy.

Yes. Jeremy who had plenty of experience shooting. Fired 9 shots at two sleeping targets at point blank range and failed to kill them. Nevil then ran past Jeremy while containing his blood so he could spill it all outside the bedroom.

Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 01:09:PM
Yes. Jeremy who had plenty of experience shooting. Fired 9 shots at two sleeping targets at point blank range and failed to kill them. Nevil then ran past Jeremy while containing his blood so he could spill it all outside the bedroom.

I thought it was Sheila who fired 9 shots into June and Nevill from June's side of the bed.

Nevill was already awake and on the move when getting his first shot. So no time for any blood to fall from him.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 01:14:PM
He didn't say he left the rifle 'on the settle', he said that's where he left the magazine. He said he left the rifle stood next to the wellington boots, which is assume is next to where the coats are. Easily hidden between the coats.





So it wasn't as visible as people would have us believe ? If it HAD been on the settle alongside the magazine, you'd have still said that it was purposely left there ?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2020, 01:16:PM
I thought it was Sheila who fired 9 shots into June and Nevill from June's side of the bed.

Nevill was already awake and on the move when getting his first shot. So no time for any blood to fall from him.

There is a blood trail leading to Nevills body. The trail does not begin in the master bedroom.
 
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 01:24:PM
There is a blood trail leading to Nevills body. The trail does not begin in the master bedroom.

See reply 33.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 01:38:PM
There is a blood trail leading to Nevills body. The trail does not begin in the master bedroom.
please show us this blood trail is it in photos
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 01:43:PM
I don't believe that Nevill managed to get to bed that night. His work clothes were downstairs so he'd have got a shower before putting on his pyjamas even though the burns to his back and gouges to his arms had been done before he put his pyjama jacket on as there was no damage to the pyjama jacket.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 01:53:PM
I don't believe that Nevill managed to get to bed that night. His work clothes were downstairs so he'd have got a shower before putting on his pyjamas even though the burns to his back and gouges to his arms had been done before he put his pyjama jacket on as there was no damage to the pyjama jacket.
during the struggle is it not possible that neville pyjamas top was pulled up and thats how it stayed once he had fell to his final resting place
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 01:56:PM
please show us this blood trail is it in photos

Yes I would like to see where Nevill's blood trail started. The kitchen perhaps?

Were the stair carpets destroyed?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 01:58:PM
I don't believe that Nevill managed to get to bed that night. His work clothes were downstairs so he'd have got a shower before putting on his pyjamas even though the burns to his back and gouges to his arms had been done before he put his pyjama jacket on as there was no damage to the pyjama jacket.

The pyjama top was pulled up while Nevill was over the coal scuttle.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 01:58:PM
Yes I would like to see where Nevill's blood trail started. The kitchen perhaps?

Were the stair carpets destroyed?
was there also a smudge of blood found on the staircase wall
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 02:25:PM
There is no way Nevill's two torso shots would have spurted through his pyjamas onto the floor within seconds.

His two face shots would have caused extreme pain and internal bleeding. But blood would not be pouring from his face within seconds.

Sheila's neck shots produced one thin blood line each which ran down the neck.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 02:32:PM
There is no way Nevill's two torso shots would have spurted through his pyjamas onto the floor within seconds.

His two face shots would have caused extreme pain and internal bleeding. But blood would not be pouring from his face within seconds.

Sheila's neck shots produced one thin blood line each which ran down the neck.

Of course this does not mean Sheila did not fire the 9 shots from June's side of the bed. Giving Nevill an easy exit from his side of the bed.

Guilters and supporters have suggested Nevill & June were sleeping while Sheila prepared.

But surely Nevill would not choose to phone Jeremy after Sheila had started shooting. 

Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 02:36:PM
The pyjama top was pulled up while Nevill was over the coal scuttle.





It couldn't have been pulled up when those burns were made or the ruffled up jacket would have been in the way of the area that they were in.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 03:38:PM
Of course this does not mean Sheila did not fire the 9 shots from June's side of the bed. Giving Nevill an easy exit from his side of the bed.

Guilters and supporters have suggested Nevill & June were sleeping while Sheila prepared.

But surely Nevill would not choose to phone Jeremy after Sheila had started shooting.
and if that was the case he would also tell jb thats shes got the gun and is killing everyone come quick
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 04:57:PM
i noticed david has not voted for the test card
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2020, 05:37:PM
Yes I would like to see where Nevill's blood trail started. The kitchen perhaps?

Were the stair carpets destroyed?

In DCI Jones note book he mentions drops of blood on the stairs and landing. This must Be Nevills blood because June never went there.  You can also see on the kitchen floor, drops of blood that also can only be Nevills blood.

You cant have blood everywhere else and not the bedroom but insist he got shot in the bedroom. Does not work.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 06:17:PM
I didn't think the blood on the stairs was ever tested ? I don't seem to have any information as to whose it was.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 04, 2020, 06:21:PM
Hammersley said there were only two drops of blood on the landing, and none on the stairs.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2020, 06:22:PM
I didn't think the blood on the stairs was ever tested ? I don't seem to have any information as to whose it was.

Wasn't tested. But no need to anyway. June and the Twins never left the rooms they were shot it. Thus can only be Nevils.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2020, 06:24:PM
Hammersley said there were only two drops of blood on the landing, and none on the stairs.

Hammersley is wrong. You cannot go down a flight of stairs with four gunshot wounds and not leave blood.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 04, 2020, 06:25:PM
Wasn't tested. But no need to anyway. June and the Twins never left the rooms they were shot it. Thus can only be Nevils.





Do we know for sure it was Nevill's blood because I haven't seen reference to it ?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 04, 2020, 06:26:PM
Hammersley is wrong. You cannot go down a flight of stairs with four gunshot wounds and not leave blood.

I agree, but that's what he said. Unless someone moved four empty cartridges upstairs later, Nevill was shot upstairs - not necessarily in the bedroom.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2020, 06:35:PM
I agree, but that's what he said. Unless someone moved four empty cartridges upstairs later, Nevill was shot upstairs - not necessarily in the bedroom.

This is how I think the four shell cases got into that location/s

(http://i.imgur.com/CGCOvJs.gif)
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 06:40:PM
Hammersley said there were only two drops of blood on the landing, and none on the stairs.

Drops on the stairs means nothing.  Espescially two drops.

Nevill had an easy exit from his side of the bed & out of the bedroom door.

With Sheila shooting 9 times from June's side of the bed, and Nevill already awake & moving only recieveing 4 shots (2 torso) there was no time for Nevill to bleed onto the bedroom carpet.

It was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Not a shot gun.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 06:44:PM
Of course this does not mean only Bamber could have fired the 9 shots from June's side of the bed.

The rifle with silencer on the end of an arm was easily long enough to cover the width of the bed. For either Bamber or Sheila.

But would/could Nevill phone Bamber after he had been shot 4 times by Sheila?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 06:50:PM
Not sure why David mentions drops of blood in the kitchen.

Nevill was brutally beaten and shot 4 more times there. After being shot 4 times upstairs. So there will be blood.
 
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 06:55:PM
i noticed david has not voted for the test card

He may have voted for Sleeping which he has suggested before.

I voted for 'none of the above'. But sleeping is the only other possible explanation. Espescially compared to having a shower and watching a TV test card.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 04, 2020, 06:58:PM
Drops on the stairs means nothing.  Espescially two drops.

Nevill had an easy exit from his side of the bed & out of the bedroom door.

With Sheila shooting 9 times from June's side of the bed, and Nevill already awake & moving only recieveing 4 shots (2 torso) there was no time for Nevill to bleed onto the bedroom carpet.

It was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Not a shot gun.

There may well have been blood from Nevill in the bedroom but not all the blood was tested. I would expect some more drops of blood on the stairs though.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 04, 2020, 07:01:PM
This is how I think the four shell cases got into that location/s

(http://i.imgur.com/CGCOvJs.gif)

That is very possible. Nevill was shot on the outside of his left arm/shoulder though, so that's a mystery. I suppose that could have happened as he turned to go back down the stairs.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: sami on February 04, 2020, 07:03:PM
doesnt look as the shots would be described as close range ,the animation shows her outside so about 6 or 7 feet away
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 07:06:PM
There may well have been blood from Nevill in the bedroom but not all the blood was tested. I would expect some more drops of blood on the stairs though.

Even David will agree that Nevill's 2 torso shots would not go through his pyjamas & onto the floor. Within seconds.

He is relying on Nevill's two face shots instantly shooting a river of blood from his face travelling down onto the carpet. Within the few seconds prior to him exiting the bedroom.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 04, 2020, 07:14:PM
Supporters have a possible scenario -

The house was sleeping. Except Sheila.

Sheila saw and then got the rifle ready.

Sheila fired 9 shots from June's side of the bed.

Nevill simultaneously got up & went downstairs.

Bamber was telephoned.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2020, 08:44:PM
That is very possible. Nevill was shot on the outside of his left arm/shoulder though, so that's a mystery. I suppose that could have happened as he turned to go back down the stairs.

Exactly.  :)
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: TheBrilliantMistake on February 07, 2020, 06:54:PM
Supporters have a possible scenario -

The house was sleeping. Except Sheila.

Sheila saw and then got the rifle ready.

Sheila fired 9 shots from June's side of the bed.

Nevill simultaneously got up & went downstairs.

Bamber was telephoned.

This scenario suggests he has managed to get passed Sheila, but elected to descend the stairs rapidly rather than overpower her. Whilst doing this, he has managed to make a phone call, wait for it to be answered and then spoken to JB before she caught up with him...

Unlikely
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 07, 2020, 07:34:PM
This scenario suggests he has managed to get passed Sheila, but elected to descend the stairs rapidly rather than overpower her. Whilst doing this, he has managed to make a phone call, wait for it to be answered and then spoken to JB before she caught up with him...

Unlikely

No. The scenario suggests that Nevill went upstairs AFTER making the call. Got shot four times on the landing and retreated back downstairs to where his body was found.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: TheBrilliantMistake on February 07, 2020, 07:40:PM
No. The scenario suggests that Nevill went upstairs AFTER making the call. Got shot four times on the landing and retreated back downstairs to where his body was found.

He said all were sleeping, bar Sheila, Nevill got up and went downstairs,  ergo he started off upstairs, hence my response.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 07, 2020, 07:48:PM
He said all were sleeping, bar Sheila, Nevill got up and went downstairs,  ergo he started off upstairs, hence my response.

Who said "all were sleeping , bar Sheila"?  ???
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: TheBrilliantMistake on February 07, 2020, 07:58:PM
Supporters have a possible scenario -

The house was sleeping. Except Sheila.

Sheila saw and then got the rifle ready.

Sheila fired 9 shots from June's side of the bed.

Nevill simultaneously got up & went downstairs.

Bamber was telephoned.



Quote from Adam
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 08:03:PM
This scenario suggests he has managed to get passed Sheila, but elected to descend the stairs rapidly rather than overpower her. Whilst doing this, he has managed to make a phone call, wait for it to be answered and then spoken to JB before she caught up with him...

Unlikely

I know it would never happen. 

But have you seen some of the other scenarios?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 08:05:PM
This scenario suggests he has managed to get passed Sheila, but elected to descend the stairs rapidly rather than overpower her. Whilst doing this, he has managed to make a phone call, wait for it to be answered and then spoken to JB before she caught up with him...

Unlikely

What do you believe Nevill was doing when Sheila got the rifle ready?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 07, 2020, 08:08:PM
He was probably sleeping. If Jeremy is telling the truth, this all happened at about 3 in the morning. Nevill wouldn't be up at that hour. However, being asleep doesn't mean that one couldn't wake up and go downstairs.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 08:11:PM
He was probably sleeping. If Jeremy is telling the truth, this all happened at about 3 in the morning. Nevill wouldn't be up at that hour. However, being asleep doesn't mean that one couldn't wake up and go downstairs.

So he went downstairs. Sheila was holding the fully loaded rifle and was 'going crazy'.

How could Nevill ring Jeremy?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 07, 2020, 08:12:PM
Supporters have a possible scenario -

The house was sleeping. Except Sheila.

Sheila saw and then got the rifle ready.

Sheila fired 9 shots from June's side of the bed.

Nevill simultaneously got up & went downstairs.

Bamber was telephoned.



Quote from Adam

Ah. OK. If it was said by Adam then it would contain strawman arguments. Nothing to be concerned about.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 08:14:PM
Ah. OK. If it was said by Adam then it would contain strawman arguments. Nothing to be concerned about.

Read the posts and who posted.

Keep up.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 07, 2020, 08:25:PM
Read the posts and who posted.

Keep up.

He was quoting you.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 07, 2020, 08:27:PM
So he went downstairs. Sheila was holding the fully loaded rifle and was 'going crazy'.

How could Nevill ring Jeremy?

By picking up the phone.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: David1819 on February 07, 2020, 08:29:PM
By picking up the phone.

Common sense? How dare you!

 ;D
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 08:31:PM
By picking up the phone.

What was Sheila doing when Nevill picked up the dial phone,  started dialling and waiting for Jeremy to answer?

Sheila had got the rifle ready and woken Nevill.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 07, 2020, 08:36:PM
What was Sheila doing when Nevill picked up the dial phone,  started dialling and waiting for Jeremy to answer?

Sheila had got the rifle ready and woken Nevill.






She was up two flights of stairs in one of the bedrooms, ranting probably.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 08:40:PM





She was up two flights of stairs in one of the bedrooms, ranting probably.

I'm losing track.

Nevill upstairs sleeping. Sheila downstairs getting the rifle ready.

Then -

Nevill downstairs ringing Jeremy. Sheila upstairs ranting.



The only constant is June & the twins are sleeping.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 07, 2020, 08:43:PM
June had trouble sleeping, so there'd have been 3 adults fighting to the finish that night---2 with defence wounds.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 07, 2020, 08:50:PM
What was Sheila doing when Nevill picked up the dial phone,  started dialling and waiting for Jeremy to answer?

Sheila had got the rifle ready and woken Nevill.

Maybe she locked herself in the shower room.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 08:59:PM
Maybe she locked herself in the shower room.

Of course she did.

So that's why Nevill phoned Jeremy.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 07, 2020, 09:05:PM
Of course she did.

So that's why Nevill phoned Jeremy.

Exactly.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 09:11:PM
Sheila wakes. Goes downstairs in nightie and bare footed.  Gets the rifle ready.

Nevill wakes and goes downstairs. Bare footed and in pyjamas.

Sheila locks herself in the shower room. Nevill rings Jeremy.

Sheila goes upstairs and fires 9 shots from Junes side of the bed.


It is falling into place.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 07, 2020, 09:13:PM
Sheila wakes. Goes downstairs in nightie and bare footed.  Gets the rifle ready.

Nevill wakes and goes downstairs. Bare footed and in pyjamas.

Sheila locks herself in the shower room. Nevill rings Jeremy.

Sheila goes upstairs and fires 9 shots from Junes side of the bed.


It is falling into place.

Good.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 09:17:PM
Good.

And thank you for telling me Sheila's legs were not pulled after the second shot.

As David said, the expert had the wrong degree.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 07, 2020, 09:21:PM
I think you're pulling our legs Adam. :)
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Jan on February 07, 2020, 09:26:PM
And thank you for telling me Sheila's legs were not pulled after the second shot.

As David said, the expert had the wrong degree.

Well after watching the body in the pool last night it seemed to take 4 experts even to determine the cause of death,

It appears experts are not always what they seem
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 07, 2020, 09:29:PM
And thank you for telling me Sheila's legs were not pulled after the second shot.

As David said, the expert had the wrong degree.

You think Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot? Do you mean that her head was up against the cabinet when the blood was flowing from her mouth? How come it didn't run down her face?
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 09:29:PM
Well after watching the body in the pool last night it seemed to take 4 experts even to determine the cause of death,

It appears experts are not always what they seem

Yes that was an interesting documentary.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Jan on February 07, 2020, 09:31:PM
Yes that was an interesting documentary.

Not actually finished watching it yet l got to where the hospital was implicated. That was bad enough .
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 07, 2020, 09:35:PM
You think Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot? Do you mean that her head was up against the cabinet when the blood was flowing from her mouth? How come it didn't run down her face?

Going by what the COA said an expert says. But he does not get David's approval so can't be right.

Sheila was shot in the neck.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 07, 2020, 09:37:PM
Going by what the COA said an expert says. But he does not get David's approval so can't be right.

Sheila was shot in the neck.

She was shot in the neck the first time. The second time, she was shot under her chin. The bullet went upwards into her brain, and that's why she was bleeding from the mouth and also her nose. The blood didn't go down her face, it went across on both sides towards her ears.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 08, 2020, 02:43:PM
She was shot in the neck the first time. The second time, she was shot under her chin. The bullet went upwards into her brain, and that's why she was bleeding from the mouth and also her nose. The blood didn't go down her face, it went across on both sides towards her ears.

Yes the photo shows blood going sideways from her mouth and neck.

If she was sitting up when shot the first time, obviously she was instantly knocked out and laid down. The second shot fired as she was still breathing.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 08, 2020, 02:47:PM
Yes the photo shows blood going sideways from her mouth and neck.

If she was sitting up when shot the first time, obviously she was instantly knocked out and laid down. The second shot fired as she was still breathing.

So her head was not up against the cabinet then, and she was not moved by someone pulling her legs.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 08, 2020, 02:49:PM
So her head was not up against the cabinet then, and she was not moved by someone pulling her legs.

It is quite possible both shots were fired with Sheila laying down.

The COA expert is saying her legs were pulled after the second shot.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 08, 2020, 02:52:PM
It is quite possible both shots were fired with Sheila laying down.

The COA expert is saying her legs were pulled after the second shot.

Why would her legs be pulled? The only reason would be to pull her away from the cabinet. She was not leaning against the cabinet after the second shot. If she had been, the blood would have run down her face - as I said - and it did not.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 08, 2020, 02:56:PM
Why would her legs be pulled? The only reason would be to pull her away from the cabinet. She was not leaning against the cabinet after the second shot. If she had been, the blood would have run down her face - as I said - and it did not.

You will have to ask Jeremy why he did that. The evidence shows he did.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 08, 2020, 03:01:PM
You will have to ask Jeremy why he did that. The evidence shows he did.

No it doesn't. The evidence shows that she was not pulled anywhere.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Adam on February 08, 2020, 03:05:PM
No it doesn't. The evidence shows that she was not pulled anywhere.

I posted the COA section yesterday.

Maybe Mike has an explanation.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 08, 2020, 03:10:PM
I posted the COA section yesterday.

Maybe Mike has an explanation.

I know.

Quote
From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet.

From the blood staining and flow, I conclude that Sheila's head was not propped against a bedside cabinet.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: TheBrilliantMistake on February 08, 2020, 03:25:PM
Had her head been propped up, I would imagine her chin would be down making it somewhat difficult to fire a rifle under it. Not impossible, but awkward in the extreme.

If she shot herself, then I don't see why she'd do it at such an awkward position.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: Kaldin on February 08, 2020, 03:37:PM
Had her head been propped up, I would imagine her chin would be down making it somewhat difficult to fire a rifle under it. Not impossible, but awkward in the extreme.

If she shot herself, then I don't see why she'd do it at such an awkward position.

Yes, that as well. I have no idea why some people think her head was propped up after the second shot.
Title: Re: What was Nevill doing during Sheila's first rifle load? Poll.
Post by: lookout on February 08, 2020, 04:32:PM
Had her head been propped up, I would imagine her chin would be down making it somewhat difficult to fire a rifle under it. Not impossible, but awkward in the extreme.

If she shot herself, then I don't see why she'd do it at such an awkward position.





Maybe that's why the first shot hadn't worked.A second consecutive shot would throw her head back.