Author Topic: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones  (Read 201463 times)

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Offline TheArmchairDetective

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #285 on: July 03, 2019, 09:13:PM »
Thanks for addressing the previous points, Sandra.  What’s going to happen with that knife found in a dry-stone dyke by a farmer some 500yds from the murder scene? Is this being tested or what?

Offline sandra L

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #286 on: July 03, 2019, 10:48:PM »
It wasn't in a drystane dyke  and it wasn't found by a farmer, Armchair Detective. I can say no more about testing etc at the moment, I'm sorry.

Offline Parky41

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #287 on: July 03, 2019, 11:28:PM »
Thanks for addressing the previous points, Sandra.  What’s going to happen with that knife found in a dry-stone dyke by a farmer some 500yds from the murder scene? Is this being tested or what?

New houses/scheme being built in the area for some time now. (approx. 7yrs) The knife found by one of the site team. AD, whether by the police in liaison with forensics or Ms Leans attempts at reconciliation with Ms Mitchell to retrieve authorisation for results on this testing leave a ? Not a mark but the question, as you asked, what happened with this. Ms Lean either doesn't know as she has no authority to know, she has since gained authority by visiting Ms Mitchell after their parting of ways. The results have to remain private incase it causes bias in future legal proceedings. Not rocket science. A play on words and answers (much like politicians) Can't answer because the answer would detract from the wonder?

Offline sandra L

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #288 on: July 04, 2019, 06:11:AM »
New houses/scheme being built in the area for some time now. (approx. 7yrs) The knife found by one of the site team. AD, whether by the police in liaison with forensics or Ms Leans attempts at reconciliation with Ms Mitchell to retrieve authorisation for results on this testing leave a ? Not a mark but the question, as you asked, what happened with this. Ms Lean either doesn't know as she has no authority to know, she has since gained authority by visiting Ms Mitchell after their parting of ways. The results have to remain private incase it causes bias in future legal proceedings. Not rocket science. A play on words and answers (much like politicians) Can't answer because the answer would detract from the wonder?

Why did you just make all of that up, parky41? I mean, just literally made it up. The find had nothing to do with new houses or builders of them. My access to information about it had nothing to do with Corinne or Luke - I've known what has been  "going on" with it since it was found and had full authority to know.  If I am ever required to do so, I can prove what I say with documented evidence.

I am not prepared to disclose any strategy involving the knife at this time, not because I don't know and certainly not to satisfy an anonymous poster who is prepared to post utter tosh in his/her attempts to (a) discredit the information I can put in the public domain and (b) goad me into revealing confidential information by attacking my credibility/reliability.

The original question was
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What’s going to happen with that knife... Is this being tested or what?

My answer was 
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I can say no more about testing etc at the moment, I'm sorry.

So let's be very clear. I could say more about it, but am not prepared to do so because of the potential (as you, yourself, point out) of adversely affecting potential future legal proceedings. That is, of  course, the standard position of anyone working in these circumstances.

Most people know what is meant when I (or others doing this work) mean by "I can't say more at the moment" - it doesn't meant I literally can't say (or type) the words, it means I am restricted in what I can make public without jeopardising other, confidential developments.

Resorting to lies and assumptions about my "authority" whilst posting under a false username doesn't bolster your position, it merely exposes your complete lack of reliability and integrity.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 06:42:AM by sandra L »

Offline sandra L

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #289 on: July 04, 2019, 06:35:AM »

Do we have any further information yet as to whose DNA was contained within the saliva, short colourless hairs and sweat? I’m aware that they only tested this against Mitchell, but has there been any developments over the years that may point to someone else?

Not yet, Armchair Detective. Getting samples released for re-testing is notoriously difficult, which is why we are now calling for a full, Hillsborough style, independent case review.

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Could the short colourless hairs have been deliberately treated with peroxide as a means of avoiding leaving a trace?


Possibly, but that would suggest a large degree of pre-meditation and this case doesn't appear to allow for that. For example, no-one could have known for sure what time Jodi would walk down the path (we don't even know for sure that she did).

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Could these have been dog hair?

 Yes, it's possible - the forensic results didn't even say whether they were human or animal.

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What are these samples that we know of, and does anyone else match these other than Kelly?

The saliva stains, semen/sperm head samples and "white stains" returned either partial profiles or "no reportable results". The hairs and fibres apparently yielded no results either. Some strands of long brown hair on Jodi's hands/arms were checked under a microscope to see if they "matched" Jodi's hair and the conclusion was that they were "similar." Cut hairs found in the pocket of a male who became known to the enquiry (a male who was not LM) were similarly checked and concluded to be "not similar" to Jodi's hair. No more sensitive testing of the cut hairs ever appears to have been done. There are still four "unidentified" male profiles in the case files and six mixed male/female samples recorded as "Jodi Jones and unidentified male." These profiles contain markers that are not in Luke's profile (hence the reason for recording them as "unidentified male"). The partial profiles cannot be "matched" to anyone although, to my knowledge, none of them has ever been subjected to Low Copy enhancement to examine whether more sensitive testing might make identification possible. Again, these are all reasons why we are calling for a full case review - if the Crown has nothing to hide, what does it have to fear from such a review?

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Lastly, what do you presume will happen from this new knife that has been reported in the media? I don’t mean the 2010 “Luke” knife; I mean the one found in a dry-stone dyke by a local farmer hiding under rocks some 500yards from the murder site.  Where do things stand with this? The media say Luke Mitchell’s campaigners want this knife to be tested.  Where are we at with this?

As previously answered, I am not in a position to be able to reveal the strategy concerning the knife find. As soon as I am, I will update.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 06:43:AM by sandra L »

Offline gordo30

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #290 on: July 04, 2019, 09:35:AM »
This knife is it the one that was found in the area of the new high school? It was pretty much cleared quite soon afterwards by the police as a possible murder weapon.

When we think of what was found on the body, the many different parts of dna partial or otherwise it things like the cut hair that astound me. Jodis murder was brutal and she had lost a lot of blood but very little was found on the body. The torso was almost clean.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 09:51:AM by gordo30 »

Offline Parky41

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #291 on: July 04, 2019, 10:04:AM »
Thank you for your help and reply Dr lean.

The post was put out with areas of misinformation intentionally . A feeder comment  for the study of response. I haven't hidden what I am doing. For the most part, my work is general. Any material/quotes will be credited with source.

All of which should be complete, hopefully by the beginning of August. If I feel anything needs clarification I will seek this and give the oppertunity of response for all subjects.

Offline gordo30

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #292 on: July 04, 2019, 11:13:AM »
It’s just games!! Why the need to as I’m sure your aware of Sandra’s work and you wouldn’t be here asking questions if you felt she had no intention of answering them to the best of her ability.

Offline Bullseye

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #293 on: July 04, 2019, 12:12:PM »
I don’t understand why lots of people seem to be so against a retrial? (Of course other than the pain it was cause Jodi’s family opening the whole thing up again, they are sure the right person is already serving justice) but there are 2 sides and everyone deserves a fair trial, I’m not sure Luke had one.

I think everyone can agree the police mucked this up right from the start, the investigation was poor, the treatment of witnesses appalling, the media reports at the time, the trial being held in Edinburgh, all the information that was not used, I can go on and on. So for all those reasons I think a retrial would be the best way forward for everyone. If you believe Luke to be guilty  and there is any evidence to be found by retesting stuff etc. then surely it can only help and prove once and for all, without doubt, that Luke is the killer (which would be the outcome I’d like to see) It would then shut this down once and for all and everyone can get on with their lives, including Jodi’s family who have had to put up with all this crap over the past 16 years, all started because of LB police (IMO).

But if there is the slightest chance Luke did not do it, and its proved in the retrial then can you imagine the pain that would cause all involved, both Jodi and Lukes family and also everyone in danger from the real killer the past 16 years. I’m just not sure and I’d like to be, as I’m sure lots of other would be, from both sides, a retrial is the only way I can see this being put to bed.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #294 on: July 04, 2019, 12:52:PM »
im of the opon tat the knife was not found beouse the killer did not throw it way they took it home them.

craig dobbie allowed the bins to be emptied so if it was thrown in a bin god knows where it would be now.

i allways wonder why he did that i mean een if you had luke lined up s the only suspect and you were certan it was him would you not want the knife to confirm it its almost like dobbie dident want the murder weapn to be found.

Offline TheArmchairDetective

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #295 on: July 05, 2019, 06:21:PM »
Thanks for replies to previous points, Sandra.  I appreciate this.

With regards to where you say the knife wasn’t found in a dry-stone dyke 300yards from the scene by a farmer, why would the media blatantly lie about that? I do get the media massage and manipulate things, but surely such a simple fact, which in itself is really a simple, non-incriminatory statement, would be told truthfully?

I suspect this knife is probably not connected to the murder anyway.  When I was young, I found a machete behind my house in a bush.  There was a lot of gang related violence nearby though, but these sort of finds do happen.  Look at how many knives and weapons the police find and confiscate from the public each year.

I guess the location makes it look a bit more dubious, but if you’re saying it wasn’t in a dry-stone dyke 300yds from the scene, perhaps it was found 5 miles away? I’m also assuming if anything was to come from this development it would have already.

Out of curiosity - why have the media just begun to talk about this knife anyway? It was found what, four years ago or something? Why now?

I’m not forcing you to answer anything about it though, but I suppose the other argument is that your lack of response in relation to this weapon sort of suggests that it will be part of the investigation.  I do get this which you did sort of mention.  I just don’t get why now, given it was found what, three or four years ago?

Forgive me for any factual inaccuracies with this post.  The only source of information for this is the media at the minute, sadly.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #296 on: July 05, 2019, 07:22:PM »
why did criag dobbie refuse a lot on crimewatch its almost like he dident want witness to come forward.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 07:33:PM by nugnug »

Offline sandra L

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #297 on: July 05, 2019, 07:24:PM »

With regards to where you say the knife wasn’t found in a dry-stone dyke 300yards from the scene by a farmer, why would the media blatantly lie about that? I do get the media massage and manipulate things, but surely such a simple fact, which in itself is really a simple, non-incriminatory statement, would be told truthfully?

I don't know why the media would say that - I haven't actually seen any media coverage of it, so I'd appreciate any links you could provide. The knife in question was found approximately 500 yards from the murder scene near a drystane dyke (but not in one) and certainly not by a farmer - I've no idea where that came from.

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I suspect this knife is probably not connected to the murder anyway.  When I was young, I found a machete behind my house in a bush.  There was a lot of gang related violence nearby though, but these sort of finds do happen.  Look at how many knives and weapons the police find and confiscate from the public each year.

There are details about where the knife was found and the reaction of police officers when it was handed in that suggested there was a possibility (nothing more) that it may have been connected but, overall, I agree, knives, etc, turn up in many places without having been connected to anything untoward.

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I guess the location makes it look a bit more dubious, but if you’re saying it wasn’t in a dry-stone dyke 300yds from the scene, perhaps it was found 5 miles away? I’m also assuming if anything was to come from this development it would have already.

See my answer above - it was, definitely, around 500m from the murder scene and there was a drystane dyke involved, it's just that the accuracy of the media reports  about the relationship to the dyke and the person who found it was off. Unfortunately, those responsible for taking the required action on Luke's behalf, at the time of the find, failed to do so. That information has just begun to break publicly this evening, hence my unwillingness to comment further previously.

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Out of curiosity - why have the media just begun to talk about this knife anyway? It was found what, four years ago or something? Why now?

Because Corinne mentioned it in her James English interview. Having only just discovered that those responsible for taking the required action, at the time, had failed to do so, she decided to go public with the information. I was not party to that decision (or the earlier failure to take action).

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I’m not forcing you to answer anything about it though, but I suppose the other argument is that your lack of response in relation to this weapon sort of suggests that it will be part of the investigation.  I do get this which you did sort of mention.  I just don’t get why now, given it was found what, three or four years ago?

As always, I'll answer what I can, when I can; I was aware of developments behind the scenes but was not prepared to comment publicly on them for a number of reasons.

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Forgive me for any factual inaccuracies with this post.  The only source of information for this is the media at the minute, sadly.

I understand - the problem is that for so long, the only source of much of the misinformation about the case was mainstream media, which is why the facts to counter it remained buried for so long. It would be somewhat counter-productive to give MSM sensitive information about planned next moves - firstly, it would give them an opportunity to distort that information and cause even more confusion and secondly, as anyone working in these circumstances will tell you, there are some things that just cannot go into the public domain in advance for legal reasons.

Offline sandra L

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #298 on: July 05, 2019, 07:37:PM »
why did criag dobbie refuse a lot on crimewatch its almost like he dident want witness to come forward.

Indeed!

Why was the area first flooded with pictures of a 4/5 year old Jodi and then an 8 year old Jodi when the claim was they were trying to find witnesses who might have seen 14 year old Jodi that day?

Why was the reconstruction video so inaccurate - it was (by the final claims about timings) around 15 minutes too late, there was no depiction of a "Stocky Man" following Jodi, or of a man in fishing clothing with thick hair standing up in a clump at the back, his arms by his sides, palms facing forward, standing in the lane leading to the path, with Jodi standing on the pavement looking towards him.

How could anyone's memory be "jogged" by a video that didn't reflect the known details and was too late to have helped anyway?

And, as nugnug points out, why refuse Crimewatch? It had one of the biggest viewing audiences at the time and, by July 7th, the case was already so massive that L&B were drowning in the deluge of "information" pouring into the enquiry (so much so that they missed masses of important information). Why not accept the offer of help from Crimewatch and lessen their direct burden?

Retrospectively, it would be easy to conclude that there was a concerted effort to keep "prying" outside eyes out and to control the public narrative of the case (in a way that, perhaps, would not have been possible had Crimewatch been involved).

Offline TheArmchairDetective

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Re: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #299 on: July 05, 2019, 08:07:PM »
Sandra, again thank you for the response.  It is an interesting development, but I guess after all these years there’s probably no forensic material on the knife anyway.  I never knew Corrine had mentioned it.  I knew she had mentioned a number of interesting developments, but not the knife.

The part about a farmer finding it may have been my fault as an error, sorry.  However, here is a link to where I originally read about it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-jodi-jones-killer-fresh-16534131.amp

Here is a second link:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/luke-mitchell-supporters-want-kitchen-16444615.amp

What were the reactions of the Police officers like that you mention? And what type of knife was it anyway? Can you reveal that? I am interested in this knife, but again the media do seem to report factual inaccuracies. 

So, it wasn’t “in” the dry-stone dyke, but rather next to it would you say? The forensic material will certainly be gone forever if that’s the case.

What information is breaking publicly this evening sorry?

Have you seen the knife yourself? And has there been any other knives or objects found near the scene?