so wheres this forensic breakthrough then.

[Steve_uk]

Then how do you explain the muzzle imprints showing no silencer was against the skin?


"The biological contents of backspatter include brain tissue, bone fragments, skin tissue, adipose tissues and blood." source - Understanding Backspatter due to Skull Fracture from a Ballistic Projectile

You should read your own supporter Andrew Hunter's book draft which mentions two gun enthusiasts' remarks on the subject. Ewen Smith the Birmingham solicitor also recognized there was a problem.

[David1819]

You should read your own supporter Andrew Hunter's book draft which mentions two gun enthusiasts' remarks on the subject. Ewen Smith the Birmingham solicitor also recognized there was a problem.

Two "gun enthusiasts" are at odds with Two actual experts.  Who do you think I will listen to?

Mark Thomas: Now you've looked at the photograph's
Philip Boyce: I have.
Mark Thomas: These are of Sheila's Injuries.
Philip Boyce: I have.
Mark Thomas: Which would you say is the most likely to have occurred?
Philip Boyce: Based on my examination of the wounds in the photographs. And the tests that I have just done. I'm of the opinion that the contact wounds to Sheila's chin. Was contact without the silencer fitted.


"The evidence of Dr Fowler is set out in a more substantial report.  That report has been peer?reviewed by Dr Dragovich, who is Chief Medical Examiner in Oakland County, Michigan and Dr Marcella Fierro, who is the retired Chief Medical Examiner to the Commonwealth of Virginia.  Both have qualifications as forensic pathologists.  In his careful report, Dr Fowler makes clear that he has reviewed the evidence, which was available in relation to the wounds.  He concluded that the abrasions found were consistent with those of a rifle without a silencer, that there were no distinctive marks on the body which showed that a silencer had been attached, and the residue was consistent with contact wounds."

[David1819]

Ok, you believe the rifle nozzle would have brain, skin, tissue & Sheila's blood. It didn't.

However the silencer had Sheila's blood after neck contact shots.

No, I believe the rifle was not powerful enough to create such backspatter in the first place. Its those who insist that it does who have the dilemma of the absence of any brain, skin, tissue and twins blood. 

[Adam]

No, I believe the rifle was not powerful enough to create such backspatter in the first place. Its those who insist that it does who have the dilemma of the absence of any brain, skin, tissue and twins blood. 

I agree that the rifle was not very powerful. Which is why Nevill as head of the family would have quickly disarmed Sheila, June, Daniel or Nicholas if any of them were holding it.

However there has never been any dispute that a contact shot where there are veins, arteries and bloodflow would produce back splatter.

[David1819]

"Test shots on live pigs destined for slaughter showed that bone particles are a feature of backspatter from close-range shots to heads. Contamination of nearby surfaces by bone fragments and bone-plus-bullet fragments, as well as other organic debris, appears to be quite heavy."
"Detection of Bone and Bone-Plus-Bullet Particles in Backspatter from Close-Range Shots to Heads," Journal of Forensic Sciences, Vol. 36, No. 6, 1991, pp. 1745-1752,

Adam were is all the biological material from Nicholas 3 contact head shots?

[lookout]

I remember posing that question about bone and flesh etc after contact shots.There would have been visible matter with contact shots.

[Caroline]

I remember posing that question about bone and flesh etc after contact shots.There would have been visible matter with contact shots.

Unlikely with a low velocity weapon.

[lookout]

Unlikely with a low velocity weapon.

Nothing to do with the velocity, it's actual contact with the wound itself.

[Jane]

Nothing to do with the velocity, it's actual contact with the wound itself.

My knowledge of firearms can be written on the back of a postage stamp, but I'd imagine the "weak" type which Adam keeps banging on about will have rather less detrimental effect on tissue and bone, than will a 'strong' gun?

[Adam]

My knowledge of firearms can be written on the back of a postage stamp, but I'd imagine the "weak" type which Adam keeps banging on about will have rather less detrimental effect on tissue and bone, than will a 'strong' gun?

Well it is a fact that it was a rifle for shooting rabbits.

Nevill as head of the family would instantly disarm Sheila, June, Daniel or Nicholas.  If they were for some reason misbehaving bare footed in nightclothes. Espescially at 3am as he needed his sleep and would not want anyone else to wake.

Ringing Bamber 

[Caroline]

Nothing to do with the velocity, it's actual contact with the wound itself.

Lookout, Neville's head was smashed in with the rifle butt but I don't recall any tissue being found on that. It

[Caroline]

My knowledge of firearms can be written on the back of a postage stamp, but I'd imagine the "weak" type which Adam keeps banging on about will have rather less detrimental effect on tissue and bone, than will a 'strong' gun?

If there was no tissue on the rifle butt which was used on Neville's head, then I doubt a small velocity rifle would send skin and bone flying into the air.

[Jane]

Well it is a fact that it was a rifle for shooting rabbits.

Nevill as head of the family would instantly disarm Sheila, June, Daniel or Nicholas.  If they were for some reason misbehaving bare footed in nightclothes. Espescially at 3am as he needed his sleep and would not want anyone else to wake.

Ringing Bamber 

I think it's possible that everyone knows what the rifle was designed for, however, it rendered an entire family no LESS dead than if they'd been on the receiving end of something more powerful, and whilst I know what you're trying to imply by saying Nevill, as head of the family, wouldn't have stood for it and would have quickly disarmed Sheila, the fact does remain, that unless he could have talked her down, he'd have known that a bullet from it could have reached him faster than he could have reached her.

[Jane]

If there was no tissue on the rifle butt which was used on Neville's head, then I doubt a small velocity rifle would send skin and bone flying into the air.

Well, I guess it's a fact that the butt end of a "weak" rifle is no less effective than the butt end of a "strong" one".

[Adam]

I think it's possible that everyone knows what the rifle was designed for, however, it rendered an entire family no LESS dead than if they'd been on the receiving end of something more powerful, and whilst I know what you're trying to imply by saying Nevill, as head of the family, wouldn't have stood for it and would have quickly disarmed Sheila, the fact does remain, that unless he could have talked her down, he'd have known that a bullet from it could have reached him faster than he could have reached her.

Yes but one bullett would not have killed him or stopped him disarming Sheila. That is if she fired one bullet & it was accurrate.

However if Sheila had a shot gun or powerful hand gun... 

Not sure Nevill would have tried to talk Sheila down. Maybe briefly. He would want her disarmed as soon as possible.