Is it normal for a hitman to use his victims guns and ammo?

[Jerry]

I have been reading over the various posts at the weekend and what strikes me is that no professional hitman worth his salt would ever contemplate a series of murders using his victims guns and ammunition.  The whole scenario is simply ridiculous.  It is even more ridiculous to suggest that someone came into the house for whatever reason and decided to shoot everyone with the guns and ammo left lying around.

The resulting conclusion from this can only mean one thing, the shooter was either Sheila or Jeremy.

[Jerry]

The evidence in relation to Sheila is virtually unchallengeable.  The total absence of any powder residue or gun oil on any part of her body and clothing, the perfect condition of her skin and finger nails and the two neat bullet wounds with blood trails which confirm that she was never upright after having been shot leave me in no doubt that Sheila could never have used the murder weapon that morning.

[mike tesko]

The evidence in relation to Sheila is virtually unchallengeable.  The total absence of any powder residue or gun oil on any part of her body and clothing, the perfect condition of her skin and finger nails and the two neat bullet wounds with blood trails which confirm that she was never upright after having been shot leave me in no doubt that Sheila could never have used the murder weapon that morning.

----------------

Your description of Sheila's condition is not accurate...

[TLW1966]

It is generally accepted that the shooter was either Jeremy or Sheila.  It is also accepted the the last bullet would Sheila sustained killed her.

So, if Sheila died almost instantly, and Jeremy was the killer, who were the police talking to (while Jeremy was stood next to them)??

How do you explain Jeremy being in constant sight (and conversation) with the police outside WHF while reportings of movement within the house were made? 

I won't even start on reports of 2 bodies, 1 male 1 female, downstairs............


If Sheila died of a fatal last shot, how possible is it that she could bleed for so long (some 7 hours or so)?

[TLW1966]

Additionally, Sheila's hands and feet were NOT immaculate as stated in the original trial.

[Jerry]

It is generally accepted that the shooter was either Jeremy or Sheila.  It is also accepted the the last bullet would Sheila sustained killed her.

So, if Sheila died almost instantly, and Jeremy was the killer, who were the police talking to (while Jeremy was stood next to them)??

How do you explain Jeremy being in constant sight (and conversation) with the police outside WHF while reportings of movement within the house were made? 

I won't even start on reports of 2 bodies, 2 male 1 female, downstairs............


If Sheila died of a fatal last shot, how possible is it that she could bleed for so long (some 7 hours or so)?

They weren't talking to anyone except Jeremy.  They were far too far from the house in any event to converse with anyone.  Lots of reports of movement but nothing substantiated.

Sheila maybe took hours to die, maybe if the police had forced their way into the farmhouse hours earlier Sheila could have been saved.  It was Jeremy who put the fear of god in the police to such an extent they would not approach the farmhouse until cavalry plod arrived.  Lets just say Jeremy did his sister no favours but then he had a motive didn't he?

[Jerry]

Additionally, Sheila's hands and feet were NOT immaculate as stated in the original trial.

Oh but they were, one of the cops even wrapped them in plastic bags to preserve them.

No female with manicured nails ever loaded bullets into a magazine or a magazine in and out of a rifle quickly without sustaining staining and damage. The idea of it is totally preposterous.

[TLW1966]

It is generally accepted that the shooter was either Jeremy or Sheila.  It is also accepted the the last bullet would Sheila sustained killed her.

So, if Sheila died almost instantly, and Jeremy was the killer, who were the police talking to (while Jeremy was stood next to them)??

How do you explain Jeremy being in constant sight (and conversation) with the police outside WHF while reportings of movement within the house were made? 

I won't even start on reports of 2 bodies, 2 male 1 female, downstairs............


If Sheila died of a fatal last shot, how possible is it that she could bleed for so long (some 7 hours or so)?

They weren't talking to anyone except Jeremy.  They were far too far from the house in any event to converse with anyone.  Lots of reports of movement but nothing substantiated.

Sheila maybe took hours to die, maybe if the police had forced their way into the farmhouse hours earlier Sheila could have been saved.  It was Jeremy who put the fear of god in the police to such an extent they would not approach the farmhouse until cavalry plod arrived.  Lets say jeremy did his sister no favours but then he had a motive didn't he?

I'm sorry but you're mistaken - Sheila did not take 'hours to die' - it is medically accepted that the 2nd shot would have killed her almost instantaneously.

Sgt Bews reported back via radio, that there was movement from an upstairs window.  This report back was transcripted as reported by Bews.  It was sufficiently of concern that there was an immediate retreat away from WHF, to 'a safer' area
.

[TLW1966]

Additionally, Sheila's hands and feet were NOT immaculate as stated in the original trial.

Oh but they were, one of the cops even wrapped them in plastic bags to preserve them.

No female with manicured nails ever loaded bullets into a magazine or a magazine in and out of a rifle quickly without sustaining staining and damage. The idea of it is totally preposterous.

How do you explain chipped nail polish and a picture of her feet ?  MT could explain more about this if appropriate.  I'm not sure how much can be disclosed.

[Jerry]

It is generally accepted that the shooter was either Jeremy or Sheila.  It is also accepted the the last bullet would Sheila sustained killed her.

So, if Sheila died almost instantly, and Jeremy was the killer, who were the police talking to (while Jeremy was stood next to them)??

How do you explain Jeremy being in constant sight (and conversation) with the police outside WHF while reportings of movement within the house were made? 

I won't even start on reports of 2 bodies, 2 male 1 female, downstairs............


If Sheila died of a fatal last shot, how possible is it that she could bleed for so long (some 7 hours or so)?

They weren't talking to anyone except Jeremy.  They were far too far from the house in any event to converse with anyone.  Lots of reports of movement but nothing substantiated.

Sheila maybe took hours to die, maybe if the police had forced their way into the farmhouse hours earlier Sheila could have been saved.  It was Jeremy who put the fear of god in the police to such an extent they would not approach the farmhouse until cavalry plod arrived.  Lets say jeremy did his sister no favours but then he had a motive didn't he?

I'm sorry but you're mistaken - Sheila did not take 'hours to die' - it is medically accepted that the 2nd shot would have killed her almost instantaneously.

Sgt Bews reported back via radio, that there was movement from an upstairs window.  This report back was transcripted as reported by Bews.  It was sufficiently of concern that there was an immediate retreat away from WHF, to 'a safer' area
.

Experts are often wrong, point is they don't like being challenged.  Sheila could have lay there and bled for ages before she expired.  It is just as likely as the sudden death theory.

The perceived movement has been dealt with at length on other threads.

[Jerry]

Additionally, Sheila's hands and feet were NOT immaculate as stated in the original trial.

Oh but they were, one of the cops even wrapped them in plastic bags to preserve them.

No female with manicured nails ever loaded bullets into a magazine or a magazine in and out of a rifle quickly without sustaining staining and damage. The idea of it is totally preposterous.

How do you explain chipped nail polish and a picture of her feet ?  MT could explain more about this if appropriate.  I'm not sure how much can be disclosed.

Please explain how a model like Sheila could ever have done what she was supposed to have done and end up in a pristine forensic state?  It just doesn't happen in the real world.

I read somewhere that Jeremy was in a big rush to have the bloodied carpets removed from the farmhouse.  Why was this I wonder?

[curiousessex]

It is generally accepted that the shooter was either Jeremy or Sheila.  It is also accepted the the last bullet would Sheila sustained killed her.

So, if Sheila died almost instantly, and Jeremy was the killer, who were the police talking to (while Jeremy was stood next to them)??

How do you explain Jeremy being in constant sight (and conversation) with the police outside WHF while reportings of movement within the house were made? 

I won't even start on reports of 2 bodies, 2 male 1 female, downstairs............


If Sheila died of a fatal last shot, how possible is it that she could bleed for so long (some 7 hours or so)?

Given the above points -

'It is also accepted the the last bullet would Sheila sustained killed her.'

'I won't even start on reports of 2 bodies, 2 male 1 female, downstairs............'

If you were to start on 2 bodies, 2 male 1 female, downstairs do you beleive Sheila had already shot herself at this point in time i.e non fatal injury or do you beleive Sheila was buying time and effectively playing dead because she realised the Police were outside?

[paulg]

I have been reading over the various posts at the weekend and what strikes me is that no professional hitman worth his salt would ever contemplate a series of murders using his victims guns and ammunition.  The whole scenario is simply ridiculous.  It is even more ridiculous to suggest that someone came into the house for whatever reason and decided to shoot everyone with the guns and ammo left lying around.

The resulting conclusion from this can only mean one thing, the shooter was either Sheila or Jeremy.

If the hit man had to leave the scene looking like a suicide, then he'd have to use the weapons in the house.

If he was familiar with the gun, then it becomes more likely.

[mike tesko]

Well, whilst dealing with the question of two bodies found downstairs, the body of one dead male and one dead female, there is a small group of police officers who have a great deal of explaining to do, over this matter - who up to date, despite some 26 years having elapsed, have all remained tight lipped about the various roles they all played in the unfolding drama which led to it being divulged that two bodies had indeed been found downstairs in the kitchen upon entry to the premises by police...

The identities of these various police officers are known, yet not one of them has ever come forward to offer any explanation for these very serious and glaring inconsistencies as to where the bodies at the scene were first found?

[HMEssex]

Additionally, Sheila's hands and feet were NOT immaculate as stated in the original trial.

Oh but they were, one of the cops even wrapped them in plastic bags to preserve them.

No female with manicured nails ever loaded bullets into a magazine or a magazine in and out of a rifle quickly without sustaining staining and damage. The idea of it is totally preposterous.

How do you explain chipped nail polish and a picture of her feet ?  MT could explain more about this if appropriate.  I'm not sure how much can be disclosed.

Please explain how a model like Sheila could ever have done what she was supposed to have done and end up in a pristine forensic state?  It just doesn't happen in the real world.

I read somewhere that Jeremy was in a big rush to have the bloodied carpets removed from the farmhouse.  Why was this I wonder?

These points have been discussed over and over on this forum.

Was Sheila still modelling at this time?  Don't think so.

The police burned the carpets.