Author Topic: Video re photographs non-disclosure  (Read 94539 times)

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Offline gringo

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #195 on: August 05, 2018, 02:53:AM »
Yes it is because she interviewed him and sourced the reference. There is nothing ambiguous about it. You're trying to muddy the waters but they're crystal clear!
   What did she ask him and what did he answer?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #196 on: August 05, 2018, 03:12:AM »
   What did she ask him and what did he answer?

Well she obviously asked him about his career and learned that at the time, he was undertaking a course on scenes of crime investigation and that this was on his second stint as a photographer.

She is a well respected author and your accusation of 'Crime Porn; is totally unfounded. I was sceptical about her book but it is a comprehensive account and if she lied about sources, she could be sued if those sources are still alive.
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Offline gringo

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #197 on: August 05, 2018, 08:21:AM »
Well she obviously asked him about his career and learned that at the time, he was undertaking a course on scenes of crime investigation and that this was on his second stint as a photographer.

She is a well respected author and your accusation of 'Crime Porn; is totally unfounded. I was sceptical about her book but it is a comprehensive account and if she lied about sources, she could be sued if those sources are still alive.
    You don't know do you?
     That is why I referred to it as an "ambiguously paraphrased quote"
     This is why a verbatim script of an interview is important if you are attempting to reach objective truths. We have no idea of a persons bias or agenda so a verbatim interview is informative. What someone says somebody else said is less accurate. I am sure that everyone agrees with this self evident truism.

     You do not know what questions were asked of Bird and by extension you don't know the answers he gave. Why do you think that CAL stuck the qualifying "while he was engaged on the lab treatment" on the end of the sentence.

     "The Bamber case was his second as photographer"
     "The Bamber case was his second as photographer while he was engaged on the lab treatment"
     "The Bamber case was his second as photographer since joining Essex police"

     Can you tell the difference between those sentences and the differences in how they may be interpreted. This is called ambiguity. If it was Bird's second case since joining EP then 1 and 3 would both be accurate.
     If he had been a photographer since 1976 but had previously worked in some dept. other than lab treatment and since he had moved to labs this was only the second case since that move then 2 is true, however misleading.
     I nor you know any of these details or the questions asked and answers given.I ask for a full transcript whilst you leap to the conclusion that suits your argument without further evidence.
    As I mentioned previously, qualifying statements stuck on the end of a sentence is a common writing tactic when attempting to convey a false impression whilst avoiding lying. It is a red flag that CAL has stuck this on the end of the sentence. Were it really only Bird's second assignment then it is an unnecessary and pointless addition to the sentence. I suspect that it's presence is neither unnecessary or pointless.
    You literally have no evidence of Bird's alleged inexperience and one ambiguously worded claim by a writer whose main output of work is writing on historic infamous murders rather than say a writer with a reputation for investigative work is not evidence at all.
    When we know what questions were asked and the replies then it would be worth discussing. As it stands it tells us nothing. That you regard it as cast iron proof says a lot about you.
     
   

Offline Caroline

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #198 on: August 05, 2018, 11:08:AM »
    You don't know do you?
     That is why I referred to it as an "ambiguously paraphrased quote"
     This is why a verbatim script of an interview is important if you are attempting to reach objective truths. We have no idea of a persons bias or agenda so a verbatim interview is informative. What someone says somebody else said is less accurate. I am sure that everyone agrees with this self evident truism.

     You do not know what questions were asked of Bird and by extension you don't know the answers he gave. Why do you think that CAL stuck the qualifying "while he was engaged on the lab treatment" on the end of the sentence.

     "The Bamber case was his second as photographer"
     "The Bamber case was his second as photographer while he was engaged on the lab treatment"
     "The Bamber case was his second as photographer since joining Essex police"

     Can you tell the difference between those sentences and the differences in how they may be interpreted. This is called ambiguity. If it was Bird's second case since joining EP then 1 and 3 would both be accurate.
     If he had been a photographer since 1976 but had previously worked in some dept. other than lab treatment and since he had moved to labs this was only the second case since that move then 2 is true, however misleading.
     I nor you know any of these details or the questions asked and answers given.I ask for a full transcript whilst you leap to the conclusion that suits your argument without further evidence.
    As I mentioned previously, qualifying statements stuck on the end of a sentence is a common writing tactic when attempting to convey a false impression whilst avoiding lying. It is a red flag that CAL has stuck this on the end of the sentence. Were it really only Bird's second assignment then it is an unnecessary and pointless addition to the sentence. I suspect that it's presence is neither unnecessary or pointless.
    You literally have no evidence of Bird's alleged inexperience and one ambiguously worded claim by a writer whose main output of work is writing on historic infamous murders rather than say a writer with a reputation for investigative work is not evidence at all.
    When we know what questions were asked and the replies then it would be worth discussing. As it stands it tells us nothing. That you regard it as cast iron proof says a lot about you.
     
   

When you learn the difference between experienced and inexperienced then you might be more qualified to post about it - until then ...........
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Offline lookout

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #199 on: August 05, 2018, 11:18:AM »
My take on the whole process of the investigation is that NONE of them were experienced nor prepared for what confronted them all. Even down to forensics.

Offline Jane

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #200 on: August 05, 2018, 11:39:AM »
My take on the whole process of the investigation is that NONE of them were experienced nor prepared for what confronted them all. Even down to forensics.

All the theoretical/classroom preparation in the world couldn't have fully equipped them for it. It was probably unprecedented for them all.

Offline lookout

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #201 on: August 05, 2018, 11:46:AM »
All the theoretical/classroom preparation in the world couldn't have fully equipped them for it. It was probably unprecedented for them all.






Well that was JM's fault for not telling the police in advance of what " she'd known " for ages ?

Offline Jane

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #202 on: August 05, 2018, 11:48:AM »





Well that was JM's fault for not telling the police in advance of what " she'd known " for ages ?


Well, it couldn't possibly be Jeremy's fault for sharing his intention, could it?

Offline lookout

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #203 on: August 05, 2018, 11:53:AM »

Well, it couldn't possibly be Jeremy's fault for sharing his intention, could it?






Not at all ! If someone told you of their " intention " to kill would you laugh and shrug it off ?

Offline Jane

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #204 on: August 05, 2018, 12:00:PM »





Not at all ! If someone told you of their " intention " to kill would you laugh and shrug it off ?

Lookout, I'm relieved, that those who've heard me, on the very rare occasions I've uttered those words, HAVEN'T taken me seriously. However, had the person, of whom those words were directed, turned up dead, I imagine that my friends MAY have had cause to wonder. If everyone who has ever heard the expression used took it to the police, I imagine there who be a queue the length of the country. You've taken the situation, and Julie's position in it, WAY out of the realms of reality.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #205 on: August 05, 2018, 12:12:PM »





Well that was JM's fault for not telling the police in advance of what " she'd known " for ages ?

So even with a guilty Bamber in the picture, it's Julie Mugford's fault? Wow!
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Offline Jane

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #206 on: August 05, 2018, 12:24:PM »
So even with a guilty Bamber in the picture, it's Julie Mugford's fault? Wow!


Yeah yeah! It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's. Isn't it time we cut through this crap which is all smokescreen, anyway, and ask how it was that Sheila -as near to being a gun virgin as makes no difference- could pick up, handle, fire, put down, reload, pick up, fire, wield, grip a gun without leaving a trace of fingerprint?......................

......................and if, for as second, I can draw attention back to -ALLEGED- undisclosed photos, a voice of sweet reason from the "other" side reminds us of the times there have been disputes with PROFESSIONAL wedding photographers because pictures of the Big Day have been either unacceptable or non existent.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 12:31:PM by Jane J »

Offline lookout

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #207 on: August 05, 2018, 01:11:PM »

Yeah yeah! It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's. Isn't it time we cut through this crap which is all smokescreen, anyway, and ask how it was that Sheila -as near to being a gun virgin as makes no difference- could pick up, handle, fire, put down, reload, pick up, fire, wield, grip a gun without leaving a trace of fingerprint?......................

......................and if, for as second, I can draw attention back to -ALLEGED- undisclosed photos, a voice of sweet reason from the "other" side reminds us of the times there have been disputes with PROFESSIONAL wedding photographers because pictures of the Big Day have been either unacceptable or non existent.





According to AE in Taff's notes she told him that " neither Jeremy nor Sheila knew very much about firearms and didn't think Sheila was capable of carrying out the crimes ". So in view of what AE told Taff why did she blame Jeremy in favour of Sheila ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #208 on: August 05, 2018, 01:16:PM »




According to AE in Taff's notes she told him that " neither Jeremy nor Sheila knew very much about firearms and didn't think Sheila was capable of carrying out the crimes ". So in view of what AE told Taff why did she blame Jeremy in favour of Sheila ?

Because she knew them both.
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Offline lookout

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Re: Video re photographs non-disclosure
« Reply #209 on: August 05, 2018, 01:19:PM »
Because she knew them both.






Rubbish !