Author Topic: Mystery, of the missing follower plate markings on the batch of 25 spent cases..  (Read 4722 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
I must conclude, therefore, that the 14 bullet cases, which are in storage at Huntingdon Lab', under the exhibit reference 'MDF/100', must have formerly been referred to as 'MDF/1' related to the 'swap Over' of test fired control rounds (the spent cartridge cases) that had been loaded, fired and ejected from the anshuzt rifle post tragedy, and 14 of the original batch of crime scene ammunition was removed from the equation, because it linked the shootings to the use of a second gun in the tragedy, more importantly, Sheila had been shot twice, once by the .22 bolt action rifle downstairs in the kitchen, and later on by way of the anshuzt rifle upstairs on her parents bedroom floor...

Steps were taken to try and eliminate any use of the .22 bolt action rifle in the shooting tragedy!

That's why there still exists to this date, 14 spent cartridge cases that can be linked to the .22 bolt action rifle which are still in storage at the Lab', these had been loaded into the .22 bolt action rifle, fired and manually extracted and ejected by the person using that rifle, at the material time! Everything points to the use of the second rifle in these shootings, there must have been an accomplice, I personally cannot see Sheila operating the bolt of the .22 rifle, working it's action manually back and forth at least 15 times, often in quick succession!!!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 07:27:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Two rifles, two people, Sheila must have had help to get rid of her parents!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Fletcher's for the high jump, his days are numbered...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Fletcher's for the high jump, his days are numbered...

He needs to start thinking about his own future, if I were him I would be breaking my neck to tell the tale on those who pressurised him into going along with this debacle...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Nigel

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1197
Two rifles, two people, Sheila must have had help to get rid of her parents!

I am absolutely 100% certain of this now.

Question is who was Sheila's accomplice?

Who would benefit? he is male.

It wasn't a 'hit man' it must have been someone Sheila knew well, almost certainly a relative.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 07:39:PM by Nigel »
I slow down for a speeding police car, don't you?

6.01pm on Friday 6th September 1985 'Part 2' of the case began.

Offline Nigel

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1197
Mike,

This may seem like an odd question, but was a close relative to the BAMBER'S - male, aged 15 years in 1985, so born 1970?

SHEILA would have known him.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 07:48:PM by Nigel »
I slow down for a speeding police car, don't you?

6.01pm on Friday 6th September 1985 'Part 2' of the case began.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20877
I am absolutely 100% certain of this now.

Question is who was Sheila's accomplice?

Who would benefit? he is male.

It wasn't a 'hit man' it must have been someone Sheila knew well, almost certainly a relative.
Don't you think with Jeremy's enigmatic remark to Mike that he knew more than he was letting on?

Offline Nigel

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1197
Don't you think with Jeremy's enigmatic remark to Mike that he knew more than he was letting on?

I think JEREMY is now well known for his unfortunate 'Prince Phillip' quips.
I slow down for a speeding police car, don't you?

6.01pm on Friday 6th September 1985 'Part 2' of the case began.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Jeremy told me in great detail about the occasion when Jones and Jones came to see him at his cottage on the afternoon of 9th August 1985, and one of the things which puzzled me at the time was that they asked him specifically if he knew where exactly 5 additional bullets that were used in the shootings originated from? This has always nagged at me for the best part of 3 decades!

I remember Jeremy saying to them in response to being told that a total of 25 shots had been fired during the tragedy, but that there were only 30 bullets remaining in the box found in the kitchen, with 20 missing, that they must have been bullets already in the guns ammunition magazine prior to him having gone to the cupboard under the stairs in the den to get a new box of 50 Eley .22 LR subsonic Hollow point bullets, which he said had got celothane wrapper around it (he said he removed the wrapping from the box once he got to the kitchen), and proceeded to load bullets from the box into the magazine until it felt like it was full, or as near as damn it, full..

I asked him where he was stood at the time he was loading the gun, and he said at the worktop where the phone is, he said he had his back to his parents and Sheila who were sat around the supper table discussing Sheila's inability to be able to look after her two boys alone, etc, etc, etc...

I have always been a little bit suspicious about those additional 5 bullets that Jones and Jones brought up with Jeremy, there was something not quite right about what all parties had to say regarding them on that occasion!

For a start and dealing with my take on what Jeremy had to say in response to what Jones and Jones put to him, I can't understand why he would have needed to load up the magazine of the rifle, with 4 or 5 more additional live rounds from a new box full of 50 rounds, if there was already 5 live rounds inside the magazine? How many rabbits had he seen in the vicinity of the barn, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or maybe even 9?

If he'd only seen 1 rabbit in the vicinity of the barn on his way into the farmhouse from parking up tractor and trailer, why would he have needed, 8, 9, or even 10 bullets to deal with it?

Surely, Jeremy would have known if there were already bullets loaded up in the gun, at the time he loaded additional bullets into the magazine of the same gun (that's my point)! I do not believe that what Jones and Jones said about those additional 5 bullets, and I do not for one moment accept that what Jeremy says he said to them is true at all..

'I don't think there were any bullets already in the guns ammunition magazine when he (Jeremy) loaded up the gun himself in the kitchen' - it seems to me to have been too convenient for Jones and Jones to raise the matter in the manner that they did, and just as convenient for Jeremy to answer in the way he did answer them back...

I believe that those additional 5 bullets, were not only fired from the second rifle used in this shooting tragedy, but that there existed 5 spent cartridge cases with double magazine markings on them (whereas, the other 20 only had one set of such markings on each of them)! However, there still remains a rather intriguingly small detail concerning those 5 spent cartridge cases that had these double magazine markings upon them..

Jones and Jones knew that 5 of the bullets originated from a different batch of .22 LR ammunition, other than any ammunition purchased or owned by the Bambers...

Anthony Pargeter owned such different types of .22 LR bullets, produced by a different ammunition manufacturers, other than Eley , which were known to be kept in storage at the farmhouse, along with his .22 bolt action rifle, silencer, and his shotguns, which were all normally kept in the downstairs toilet...
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 08:34:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079

Jones and Jones knew that 5 of the bullets originated from a different batch of .22 ammunition, other than any ammunition purchased or owned by the Bambers...

These 5 additional bullets, that Jones and Jones, and Jeremy talked about are the 5 heavy .22LR bullets in the list below:-

The 7 Heavy Whole Bullets (*)and 5 light Bullets (**)..

(1) - DRH/35(a) 2.44grns (pillow, main bedroom) * .22 LR Bullet
(2) - DRH/35(b) 2.43grms (pillow, main bedroom)* .22 LR Bullet
(3) - PV/2 2.4267grms (Neville Bamber) * .22 LR Bullet
(4) - PV/4 2.0999grms (Neville Bamber) **
(5) - PV/19 - 2.16grms (Sheila Caffell) **
(6) - PV/20 - 1.5453grms (Sheila Caffell) **
(7) - PV/23 - 2.29grms (June Bamber) * .22 LR Bullet
(8) - PV/24 - 2.4208grms (June Bamber) *
(9) - PV/29 - 2.13grms ( twin ) **
(10) - PV /31 - 2.1223grms (twin) **
(11) - DRH/5 - 2.42grms (main bedroom floor) *
(12) - DRH/36 - 2.42grms (twins room) * .22 LR Bullet
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 08:29:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
I think JEREMY is now well known for his unfortunate 'Prince Phillip' quips.






I certainly agree there Nigel. He'd have been testing people's sense of humour-----------which clearly wasn't present most of the time with certain people though Julie would have/did know his brand of humour and was used to it until it didn't suit  and turned it into more sinister meanings aka the hitman !

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079

Anthony Pargeter owned such different types of .22 LR bullets, produced by a different ammunition manufacturers, other than Eley , which were known to be kept in storage at the farmhouse, along with his .22 bolt action rifle, silencer, and his shotguns, which were all normally kept in the downstairs toilet...

I believe that I am right in saying, that the other 5 light weighted whole bullets, referred to in the same list, also originated from Anthony Pargeters stash of .22 ammunition that he was known to have purchased at some time prior to the date of the tragedy (a list exists somewhere of all the different types of .22 ammunitions Pargeter had purchased, beforehand), However, that one or two pieces of Pargeters lightweight and dare I say it heavy ammunition may have inadvertently got loaded up into the Anshuzt rifle, and been fired via that weapon!

A typical example of what I  am talking about what I am talking about can be seen with reference to the two shots inflicted with police involvement, where the first shot downstairs in the kitchen, was fired via the .bolt action rifle (PV/20), it originally being a piece of Anthony Pargeters ammunition! The second shot received upstairs once cops had switched Sheila's body onto the bedroom floor, was fired by way of the Bamber owned Anshuzt rifle, but was probably also apiece of the Pargeter ammunition!!!

The 7 Heavy Whole Bullets (*)and 5 light Bullets (**)..

(1) - DRH/35(a) 2.44grns (pillow, main bedroom) * .22 LR Bullet
(2) - DRH/35(b) 2.43grms (pillow, main bedroom)* .22 LR Bullet
(3) - PV/2 2.4267grms (Neville Bamber) * .22 LR Bullet
(4) - PV/4 2.0999grms (Neville Bamber) **
(5) - PV/19 - 2.16grms (Sheila Caffell) **
(6) - PV/20 - 1.5453grms (Sheila Caffell) **
(7) - PV/23 - 2.29grms (June Bamber) * .22 LR Bullet
(8) - PV/24 - 2.4208grms (June Bamber) *
(9) - PV/29- 2.13grms ( twin ) **
(10) - PV /31 - 2.1223grms (twin) **
(11) - DRH/5 - 2.42grms (main bedroom floor) *
(12) - DRH/36 - 2.42grms (twins room) * .22 LR Bullet

I do not discount the possibility, that the 5 spent cartridge cases, bearing the double magazine markings on them, could have been the 'corresponding spent cartridge cases' of the above '5 lightweighted whole bullets' (PV/4, PV/19, PV/20, PV/29 and PV31)..
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 10:07:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
I believe that I am right in suggesting that bullets from the batch of Bamber ammunition and bullets from the Pargeter ammunitions, were used conflictingly in either rifle, where bullets belonging to Pargeters stash somehow managed to get loaded into the Bamber owned Anshuzt rifle! But I don't think that any of the Bamber owned ammunition got loaded into, and fired via the other rifle...

It all started off with three ammunition magazines being full of .22 ammunition!

(1) - The anshuzt rifle with its 10 shot magazine containing what I believe to have been (9) Eley .22LR Subsonic Hollow point rounds..

(2) - the bolt action rifle had been preloaded up involving it's two ammunition magazines, with a variety of different types of .22 ammunition belonging to Anthony Pargeter (a) a 10 shot magazine that was fully loaded, and (b) a 5 shot magazine also fully loaded...

At some point during the shootings, the 5 rounds in the 5 shot magazine, got transferred into the 10 shot magazine belonging to either weapon (2), or weapon (1)...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
I believe that I am right in suggesting that bullets from the batch of Bamber ammunition and bullets from the Pargeter ammunitions, were used conflictingly in either rifle, where bullets belonging to Pargeters stash somehow managed to get loaded into the Bamber owned Anshuzt rifle! But I don't think that any of the Bamber owned ammunition got loaded into, and fired via the other rifle...

It all started off with three ammunition magazines being full of .22 ammunition!

(1) - The anshuzt rifle with its 10 shot magazine containing what I believe to have been (9) Eley .22LR Subsonic Hollow point rounds..

(2) - the bolt action rifle had been preloaded up involving it's two ammunition magazines, with a variety of different types of .22 ammunition belonging to Anthony Pargeter (a) a 10 shot magazine that was fully loaded, and (b) a 5 shot magazine also fully loaded...

At some point during the shootings, the 5 rounds in the 5 shot magazine, got transferred into the 10 shot magazine belonging to either weapon (2), or weapon (1)...

Once the 14 spent bullet cases (MDF/1) held at the Lab' are identified it will be possible to say with almost complete certainty, which and whose bullets got fired from the first rifle, and which tprounds had been transferred from the 5 shot magazine, into whichever 10 shot magazine!

My instinct is telling me, that both of the bullets used in the shooting of Sheila Caffell downstairs in the kitchen, and later on upstairs in the bedroom,  involved 2 pieces of Pargeters owned .22 ammunition, albeit fired from different guns, where PV/20 was fired via the .22 bolt action rifle, and PV/19 was fired by way of the .22 semi-automatic anshuzt rifle - for some reason or other then, at least one of the original 15 pieces of Pargeters ammunition used in this shooting tragedy, ended up being fired by way of the anshuzt rifle (apparently PV/19 being the very last bullet that was fired at the scene)...

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
I am now report, that evidence is available confirming that Essex police and it's ballistic expert, faked the batch of crime scene ammunition for the sole purpose of presenting these shootings as a one gun crime, and that these introduced at least 3 test fired rounds (bullets) into the batch of 25 crime scene bullets...

It has been well documented here, that I have exposed the way with which, the original piece of badly fragmented bullet that was PV/20...

Here, I demonstrate by a reliance upon the fact that during the autopsies performed by Peter Venezis, he did not recover a total of 3 bullets from the corpses of the twin victims - one of these 3 missing bullets can be accounted for by reference to exhibit DRH/36 which was a loose bullet found inside the twins bedroom, but 2 other bullets were never recovered...

This is astonishing, since with 2 bullets unrecovered, and a total of 25 bullets, or parts of a bullet, or a fragment of a bullet, and only 25 spent cartridge cases found at the scene, and only 25 bullet entry wounds, and a total of only 5 exit wounds, how could a further 2 bullets be unaccounted for?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 10:35:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...