The Search for the Truth - the 'hidden agenda'..

[mike tesko]

The true facts as now known by myself at this present moment in time, are that Sheila was still alive inside the farmhouse after firearm officers entered the premises at around 7.35am! I put to side for one moment the evidence that she was the dead female body found inside the kitchen along with the body of Neville Bamber! Neither do I seek to rely on the argument that by 7.45am, that police in the control room at Chelmsford were speaking in terms that the two bodies already found by that stage, involved a murder, and a suicide! Also, forget that there was only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am...

I am more interested in the position of Sheila Caffell's body at the following times:-

8.44am
9.05am
9.30am
10.00am
11.00am

[Steve_uk]

Forget my association with Jeremy, for just a moment, if you please, I am not controlled in any way by Jeremy Bamber, I can think and I can speak for myself...

I am trying to come to terms with the possibility that Jeremy was in some way responsible for these atrocities, and what I am saying is that in those circumstances it would not have been in Jeremy Bambers interests to shoot dead his sister!

I know that he didn't shoot dead his sister, because I know that Sheila was very much alive inside the farmhouse until exactly 9.13am that morning..

If Jeremy had been the shooter as your implying there was no reason why he would also shoot dead his sister if he had her in mind to be the scapegoat!

A dead, Sheila Caffell, was of no use to himself in the grand scheme of things!

It's true that after a psychotic episode Sheila never remembered what had occurred during it, but neither had she ever attacked anybody during one.

[lookout]

Which is all the more reason why she'd have forgotten what she'd done on the 7th of August,Steve.

[mike tesko]

It's true that after a psychotic episode Sheila never remembered what had occurred during it, but neither had she ever attacked anybody during one.

I am with you on this point, but I ask you to bear in mind that once there had been the dramatic reduction in her haloperidol medication' (reduced by 50%) that this had an adverse effect on her bahaviour, particularly the aggressive nature and element of the withdrawal symptoms now know to be associated with it!

Have you watched the video clip I posted?

Here it is, again...

https://youtu.be/UibB5uo-15A

[mike tesko]

I am with you on this point, but I ask you to bear in mind that once there had been the dramatic reduction in her haloperidol medication' (reduced by 50%) that this had an adverse effect on her bahaviour, particularly the aggressive nature and element of the withdrawal symptoms now know to be associated with it!

Have you watched the video clip I posted?

Here it is, again...

https://youtu.be/UibB5uo-15A

Thoughts of suicide, and hurting others...

[Steve_uk]

I am with you on this point, but I ask you to bear in mind that once there had been the dramatic reduction in her haloperidol medication' (reduced by 50%) that this had an adverse effect on her bahaviour, particularly the aggressive nature and element of the withdrawal symptoms now know to be associated with it!

Have you watched the video clip I posted?

Here it is, again...

https://youtu.be/UibB5uo-15A

Yes but there was no mention of this by anyone who met her from the Sunday onwards, or even before her medication was reduced, which would stretch the time period back to July. On the contrary there were signs that there was a rapprochement with June much to Jeremy's dismay, and the growing realization that the twins also might replace him in his parents' affections.

It all proved too much I'm afraid, following the initial trauma of adoption, the failure to bond with his adoptive parents then his banishment to Gresham's.

[mike tesko]

Yes but there was no mention of this by anyone who met her from the Sunday onwards, or even before her medication was reduced, which would stretch the time period back to July. On the contrary there were signs that there was a rapprochement with June much to Jeremy's dismay, and the growing realization that the twins also might replace him in his parents' affections.

It all proved too much I'm afraid, following the initial trauma of adoption, the failure to bond with his adoptive parents then his banishment to Gresham's.

We don't know that..

the fact is that people like Sheila who were on 300 mls of Haloperidol (HALDOL), that got reduced to 150 mls, days, weeks before the date of the tragedy, would have been susceptible to an onset of Akathisia or Dystonia...

[maggie]

Yes but there was no mention of this by anyone who met her from the Sunday onwards, or even before her medication was reduced, which would stretch the time period back to July. On the contrary there were signs that there was a rapprochement with June much to Jeremy's dismay, and the growing realization that the twins also might replace him in his parents' affections.

It all proved too much I'm afraid, following the initial trauma of adoption, the failure to bond with his adoptive parents then his banishment to Gresham's.

But Sheila had a similar experience Steve so surely they were either both capable of murder for that reason or neither of them were so in my opinion it proves nothing. In fact Sheila had a much more difficult time from birth until adoption by the Bamber's at 6 months and even after as June was ill and in hospital shortly after the adoption.  Sheila had the more difficult bonding experience than Jeremy as far as we know. Jeremy was adopted at 6 weeks, Sheila with other carers but not her mother until 6 months old then adopted.  June ill  and in hospital shortly after adoption, Jeremy adopted 6 weeks and no disruption to bonding process with June as she was not I'll after his adoption.  We cannot know in truth whether either child bonded with June but Jeremy certainly had the better opportunity. 

[Steve_uk]

But Sheila had a similar experience Steve so surely they were either both capable of murder for that reason or neither of them were so in my opinion it proves nothing. In fact Sheila had a much more difficult time from birth until adoption by the Bamber's at 6 months and even after as June was ill and in hospital shortly after the adoption.  Sheila had the more difficult bonding experience than Jeremy as far as we know.

This might well be true, but who was the more materialistic, the one looking ahead, the one with malice aforethought, the one who couldn't bear the thought of each passing day and the burden he felt he had to shoulder, whilst ironically Sheila herself was suffering unbeknownst to him but without the cunning, without the guile, without the ulterior motive as she soldiered on to possible oblivion, yet making the most of her predicament and desperately loving her boys.

[maggie]

This might well be true, but who was the more materialistic, the one looking ahead, the one with malice aforethought, the one who couldn't bear the thought of each passing day and the burden he felt he had to shoulder, whilst ironically Sheila herself was suffering unbeknownst to him but without the cunning, without the guile, without the ulterior motive as she soldiered on to possible oblivion, yet making the most of her predicament and desperately loving her boys.

I don't believe we know what Jeremy Bamber was really like. Who knows what he suffered behind the confident face he showed to the public. I have much sympathy for Sheila and her illness but she too was far from perfect, she was human not a saint. Someone with psychosis is very difficult to deal with and very difficult to love as even when 'stablised' they are often chaotic, irresponsible, unreliable and often angry. You paint a picture of her loving her children and no doubt she did as best she could but she was quite possibly incapable of looking after them or herself in any real sense which is why June made her regular trips to London with food and financial support and why they lived with Colin.  I don't know the truth of Jeremy Bamber or Sheila, what we know is mainly hearsay and gossip which has been repeated over and over again with people adding their own spin like Chinese Whispers.

[mike tesko]

The true facts as now known by myself at this present moment in time, are that Sheila was still alive inside the farmhouse after firearm officers entered the premises at around 7.35am! I put to side for one moment the evidence that she was the dead female body found inside the kitchen along with the body of Neville Bamber! Neither do I seek to rely on the argument that by 7.45am, that police in the control room at Chelmsford were speaking in terms that the two bodies already found by that stage, involved a murder, and a suicide! Also, forget that there was only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am...

I am more interested in the position of Sheila Caffell's body at the following times:-

8.44am
9.05am
9.30am
10.00am
11.00am

I am also interested in the whereabouts and position of the rifle, as attested to by various witness accounts at the following times:-

7.15am.      WPC Julia Jeapes
7.35am        DCI Harris / CI Gibbons
7.37am.       Raid team
7.38am.       Raid team
7.42am.       Raid team
7.45am.       Raid team
8.10am.       Raid team
8.15am.       Harris / Gibbons / Montgomery
8.44am.       Dr Craig
9.00am.       PS Adams
9.05am.       DS Jones / DC Clark
9.13am.       Harris / Gibbons / Montgomery / Woodcock
9.30am.       PC Wright
10.00am.     DC Oakey / DC Henderson
11.00am.     Cook / Davidson / Hammersley / Bird
11.10am.      PS Woodcock

We know that according to PS Woodcock, that he removed the rifle from Sheila Caffell's body at 11.10am, according to a witness statement that he made!

There was a significant amount of activity involving the rifle between the first sighting of it by WPC Julia Jeapes' at the first floor box room window at around 7.15am, and the occasion when PS Woodcock removed it from Sheila's body in the main bedroom at 11.10am..

The first floor box room and the main bedroom were next door to one another, connected by an internal door!

[Nigel]

I am also interested in the whereabouts and position of the rifle, as attested to by various witness accounts at the following times:-

7.15am.      WPC Julia Jeapes
7.35am        DCI Harris / CI Gibbons
7.37am.       Raid team
7.38am.       Raid team
7.42am.       Raid team
7.45am.       Raid team
8.10am.       Raid team
8.15am.       Harris / Gibbons / Montgomery
8.44am.       Dr Craig
9.00am.       PS Adams
9.05am.       DS Jones / DC Clark
9.13am.       Harris / Gibbons / Montgomery / Woodcock
9.30am.       PC Wright
10.00am.     DC Oakey / DC Henderson
11.00am.     Cook / Davidson / Hammersley / Bird
11.10am.      PS Woodcock

We know that according to PS Woodcock, that he removed the rifle from Sheila Caffell's body at 11.10am, according to a witness statement that he made!

There was a significant amount of activity involving the rifle between the first sighting of it by WPC Julia Jeapes' at the first floor box room window at around 7.15am, and the occasion when PS Woodcock removed it from Sheila's body in the main bedroom at 11.10am..

The first floor box room and the main bedroom were next door to one another, connected by an internal door!

The 2nd rifle was leaning against the 'Box Room' window (the room connecting 'Parents Bedroom' and 'twins room').

[Nigel]

The 2nd rifle was leaning against the 'Box Room' window (the room connecting 'Parents Bedroom' and 'twins room').

Sheila was dead by 7.15am WPC JEAPES sighting of rifle Box Room

So there are TWO rifles, one in Box Room (see above for correct room) and one on Sheila's body.

[mike tesko]

7.15am.      WPC Julia Jeapes
Rifle was said to be resting against the first floor box room window

8.44am.       Dr Craig
Rifle laying alongside Sheila's body on the far side of the bed

9.00am.      PS Adams
No recollection of the rifle being with Sheila's body when he visited main bedroom

9.05am       DS Jones / DC Clark
Rifle resting on the bed, in-between the bodies of June Bamber and Sheila Caffell'

9.13am.      Harris / Gibbons / Montgomery / Woodcock
Rifle brought to Sheila's body which had been moved from bed onto bedroom floor

9.30am.      PC Wright
Rifle had been removed from Sheila's body by this stage - resting against main bedroom window

10.00am.    DC Oakey / DC Henderson
Photographed rifle in Sheila's possession (photograph no.25), barrel resting against left side of neck

11.00am.      Cook / Davidson / Hammersley / Bird
Rifle photographed in different position on Sheila's body, as per photo's 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33

11.10am.      PS Woodcock
Removes rifle from Sheila's body, and makes it safe

[mike tesko]

Sheila was dead by 7.15am WPC JEAPES sighting of rifle Box Room

So there are TWO rifles, one in Box Room (see above for correct room) and one on Sheila's body.

Police state that there was only one rifle found upstairs on the first floor - that being the family owned Anshuzt rifle found on Sheila's body!