The Search for the Truth - the 'hidden agenda'..

[Luminous Wanderer]

If I am wrong about this, then with Sheila Caffell's life being spared, only for the police to be responsible for killing Sheila, the estate(s) of the Bamber parents would not automatically be dispensed to the relatives to 'share out' and 'divvy' between themselves, but rather perhaps Colin Caffell (the father of the two child victims) would have received, Sheila's / Daniels / and Nicholas's entitlement...

Instead, the wealth associated with the people who had been murdered (Neville, June, Sheila, Daniel and Nicholas) was split between relatives, the Boutflours, the Eaton's and the Pargeter's...

Mike,

I know off-topic, but just to take up a point you make above: I think you make an astute observation that, if Jeremy had done this - and given the level of planning that must have gone into it - he must have considered the possibility of keeping Sheila alive and having her either disinherited outright or him acting ad litem.  I think you are right when you imply that Jeremy's real interest was not in the killing of his adopted parents or even Sheila herself, but specifically the elimination of the twins.

Let's face it - if Sheila was as mentally-crippled and inept as the anti-Bambers are trying to make out, then what would Jeremy have to fear by keeping her living?  He could have schemed to have her confined and any incriminating testimony from her would have been discredited anyway, as she was schizophrenic and Jeremy knew this - and according to anti-Bambers, she was mentally all over the place.

It seems to me that some anti-Bamber posters want to have it both ways in regard to Sheila.  On the one hand, she could hardly stand, but then we're expected to believe that Jeremy plotted her role in a murder-suicide scheme.  Then when you point to the potential for aggressive and anti-social symptoms that would result from a reduction in medication dosages, suddenly she was showing no symptoms.

[mike tesko]

Basically, what I am saying, is that whether or not Jeremy Bamber may have been involved in the murders of at least four members of his family (June, the two child victims, and Neville Bamber), and in the event that he had no involvement in his sister's death, that the estate(s) of the Bamber parents, and subsequently, the estate of Mabel Speakman, may well have been dispensed with to the wrong parties!

Colin Caffell would have been the rightful beneficiary, if Jeremy had shot dead his family, but spared Sheila...

[lookout]

With Sheila alive, and held responsible, in her state of mind, suffering with mental illness, I doubt that she would ever have been deemed a beneficiary in her parents death, or the death of Mabel Speakman!

Sheila would still have benefitted had she have remained alive and/or living in a secured place of safety. Because a person is mentally ill doesn't deprive them of their dues. Monies left to them would probably be used against their care-------as in a private capacity. Though I'm not altogether sure if they've committed a crime too whether it would apply as opposed to being in a prison where the share is relinquished .

[Luminous Wanderer]

Colin Caffell would have been the rightful beneficiary, if Jeremy had shot dead his family, but spared Sheila...

But hadn't he divorced her?

[mike tesko]

Sheila would still have benefitted had she have remained alive and/or living in a secured place of safety. Because a person is mentally ill doesn't deprive them of their dues. Monies left to them would probably be used against their care-------as in a private capacity. Though I'm not altogether sure if they've committed a crime too whether it would apply as opposed to being in a prison where the share is relinquished .

I do not believe, I could be wrong, that if somebody is held accountable for someone's death that they can still benefit as a beneficiary of the deceased persons estate, even where it is found that the person in question, i.e. the potential beneficiary, is found not to have been of sound mind - I don't know, to be honest, but in any event whether the person was of sound mind, or not, I doubt that such a person (in these circumstances we are talking about Sheila Caffell) would still be entitled to be a beneficiary, simply because they had killed the person, or persons, to which the entitlement relates to...

[Steve_uk]

Mike,

I know off-topic, but just to take up a point you make above: I think you make an astute observation that, if Jeremy had done this - and given the level of planning that must have gone into it - he must have considered the possibility of keeping Sheila alive and having her either disinherited outright or him acting ad litem.  I think you are right when you imply that Jeremy's real interest was not in the killing of his adopted parents or even Sheila herself, but specifically the elimination of the twins.

Let's face it - if Sheila was as mentally-crippled and inept as the anti-Bambers are trying to make out, then what would Jeremy have to fear by keeping her living?  He could have schemed to have her confined and any incriminating testimony from her would have been discredited anyway, as she was schizophrenic and Jeremy knew this - and according to anti-Bambers, she was mentally all over the place.

It seems to me that some anti-Bamber posters want to have it both ways in regard to Sheila.  On the one hand, she could hardly stand, but then we're expected to believe that Jeremy plotted her role in a murder-suicide scheme.  Then when you point to the potential for aggressive and anti-social symptoms that would result from a reduction in medication dosages, suddenly she was showing no symptoms.

Far too risky a strategy, probably considered and rejected, and we know from Julie's statements that his primary targets were his parents, though loose ends were tidied up upon the demise of Sheila and the twins.

[mike tesko]

But hadn't he divorced her?

Nigel, I have not yet come across any legally binding evidence, which confirms that Colin Caffell had divorced his wife, Sheila..

[mike tesko]

Far too risky a strategy, probably considered and rejected, and we know from Julie's statements that his primary targets were his parents, though loose ends were tidied up upon the demise of Sheila and the twins.

Steve_uk,

I simply cannot fathom out why if Jeremy had been the shooter, why he would shoot dead the first four victims (June, the twins, and Neville Bamber) and keep Sheila alive, and expect to be the sole beneficiary of not only his parents estate(s), but 50% of his grandmother, Mabel Speakmans estate?

[mike tesko]

Steve_uk,

I simply cannot fathom out why if Jeremy had been the shooter, why he would shoot dead the first four victims (June, the twins, and Neville Bamber) and keep Sheila alive, and expect to be the sole beneficiary of not only his parents estate(s), but 50% of his grandmother, Mabel Speakmans estate?

Killing everyone, inside whf  (June, the twins, Neville Bamber, and Sheila) would have been 'akin to inviting trouble upon himself' from the outset, trouble that someone in Jeremy's position could well afford to do without!

What's your view on this situation?

[mike tesko]

Killing everyone, inside whf  (June, the twins, Neville Bamber, and Sheila) would have been 'akin to inviting trouble upon himself' from the outset, trouble that someone in Jeremy's position could well afford to do without!

What's your view on this situation?

Now..

Despite all arguments to the contrary..

Sheila was 'not shot dead', either by her own hand, or by a hired hitman, or by Jeremy himself, she survived being shot downstairs in the kitchen by 7.35am, she survived being pronounced as dead on the far side of the bed (8.44am), and she survived being presumed dead whilst laying on top of the bed at 9.05am, and eventually she ended up as literal!y being dead on the bedroom floor between 9.05am, and 9.30am, that morning...

Let's, forget about who shot Sheila Dead after 9.05am...

I say 9.05am, because according to Stan Jones, and Mick Clark, who visited the main bedroom crime scene at about 9.05am,  they saw Sheila Caffell's body on the bed, she had a Bible on her chest, and she only had been shot once in the neck by 'that' stage..

There was no gun on Sheila's body at this time, the rifle was resting on the bed, in between the bodies of Sheila and June!

How did the rifle that was resting on the bed in between the bodies of June and Sheila, at 9.05am, manage to be placed in the possession of Sheila Caffell's body on the bedroom floor, in time for DC Oakey (prior to 10.00am), and then for PC Bird (after 11.00am) to capture this in evidence?

[Steve_uk]

Killing everyone, inside whf  (June, the twins, Neville Bamber, and Sheila) would have been 'akin to inviting trouble upon himself' from the outset, trouble that someone in Jeremy's position could well afford to do without!

What's your view on this situation?

But Sheila was the scapegoat, which is why he left the gun out. The Police would be his alibi because he would hurry back to Bourtree Cottage to retrieve the tape from his answering machine of the call he made on the telephone at White House Farm with the last number redial facility.

It was an ingeniously evil plot, which would be nigh on impossible to prove one way or the other, which is why he boasted to Julie it was "the perfect crime" and after 33 years has still not confessed..

[mike tesko]

Now..

Despite all arguments to the contrary..

Sheila was 'not shot dead', either by her own hand, or by a hired hitman, or by Jeremy himself, she survived being shot downstairs in the kitchen by 7.35am, she survived being pronounced as dead on the far side of the bed (8.44am), and she survived being presumed dead whilst laying on top of the bed at 9.05am, and eventually she ended up as literal!y being dead on the bedroom floor between 9.05am, and 9.30am, that morning...

Let's, forget about who shot Sheila Dead after 9.05am...

I say 9.05am, because according to Stan Jones, and Mick Clark, who visited the main bedroom crime scene at about 9.05am,  they saw Sheila Caffell's body on the bed, she had a Bible on her chest, and she only had been shot once in the neck by 'that' stage..

There was no gun on Sheila's body at this time, the rifle was resting on the bed, in between the bodies of Sheila and June!

How did the rifle that was resting on the bed in between the bodies of June and Sheila, at 9.05am, manage to be placed in the possession of Sheila Caffell's body on the bedroom floor, in time for DC Oakey (prior to 10.00am), and then for PC Bird (after 11.00am) to capture this in evidence?

Everything points to Sheila still having been alive, inside the farmhouse, after armed police forced an entry!

[mike tesko]

But Sheila was the scapegoat, which is why he left the gun out. The Police would be his alibi because he would hurry back to Bourtree Cottage to retrieve the tape from his answering machine of the call he made on the telephone at White House Farm with the last number redial facility.

It was an ingeniously evil plot, which would be nigh on impossible to prove one way or the other, which is why he boasted to Julie it was "the perfect crime" and after 33 years has still not confessed..

Forget my association with Jeremy, for just a moment, if you please, I am not controlled in any way by Jeremy Bamber, I can think and I can speak for myself...

I am trying to come to terms with the possibility that Jeremy was in some way responsible for these atrocities, and what I am saying is that in those circumstances it would not have been in Jeremy Bambers interests to shoot dead his sister!

I know that he didn't shoot dead his sister, because I know that Sheila was very much alive inside the farmhouse until exactly 9.13am that morning..

If Jeremy had been the shooter as your implying there was no reason why he would also shoot dead his sister if he had her in mind to be the scapegoat!

A dead, Sheila Caffell, was of no use to himself in the grand scheme of things!

[mike tesko]

If the police had not shot Sheila dead, perhaps I would be here now arguing for Jeremy to be arrested and convicted of trying to frame his sister, as the shooter?

[lookout]

I do not believe, I could be wrong, that if somebody is held accountable for someone's death that they can still benefit as a beneficiary of the deceased persons estate, even where it is found that the person in question, i.e. the potential beneficiary, is found not to have been of sound mind - I don't know, to be honest, but in any event whether the person was of sound mind, or not, I doubt that such a person (in these circumstances we are talking about Sheila Caffell) would still be entitled to be a beneficiary, simply because they had killed the person, or persons, to which the entitlement relates to...

I'm not sure either whether Sheila would still have been entitled under the circumstances,nor if a verdict of unsound mind had she lived,would have made any difference to any entitlement.