Author Topic: Relatives invited to a dinner party by Essex police after convictions secured...  (Read 5570 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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The thread title is misleading in the extreme. I feel it should be made clear that it was NOT a "dinner party" -with it's formal connotations- to which the relatives were invited. Formal dinner -3 courses +- would be around  7.30 for 8.00. Less formal would supper -2 course- at around 6/6.30. The relatives were invited to neither of these. They were invited to -what sounds like, given that the word "informal" is included in the invitation- a casual LUNCH.

They were invited to have a meal with the hob knobs, you can paint it how you want to, this hardly ever happens to victims of crime! The relatives became beneficiaries after they helped Essex police to convict him...

It's disgusting!!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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They were invited to have a meal with the hob knobs, you can paint it how you want to, this hardly ever happens to victims of crime! The relatives became beneficiaries after they helped Essex police to convict him...

It's disgusting!!

"Hardly ever happens" is crucial. What it means is that it isn't actually a unique situation. Certainly, their conviction that Jeremy was capable of such an act probably helped to convince the police of his guilt. I can't imagine that they wouldn't have been grateful for it, especially in the light of the Diana Jones case, however, given that they already had a conveniently dead culprit who couldn't argue with them, unless they were 100% convinced of Jeremy's guilt, they were rather going out on a limb to try to convict him. The other alternative -given their conviction of his guilt- was to reason that they HAD to let him go free because if he were to be convicted his relatives would end up getting his inheritance, which might bring their own integrity into question.

Offline mike tesko

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"Hardly ever happens" is crucial. What it means is that it isn't actually a unique situation. Certainly, their conviction that Jeremy was capable of such an act probably helped to convince the police of his guilt. I can't imagine that they wouldn't have been grateful for it, especially in the light of the Diana Jones case, however, given that they already had a conveniently dead culprit who couldn't argue with them, unless they were 100% convinced of Jeremy's guilt, they were rather going out on a limb to try to convict him. The other alternative -given their conviction of his guilt- was to reason that they HAD to let him go free because if he were to be convicted his relatives would end up getting his inheritance, which might bring their own integrity into question.

Noble cause corruption is still corruption, the lot of 'em framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders by going out of their ways to prove that Sheila had not shot herself!

Of course she hadn't and didn't shoot herself, the non disclosed witness statement of PC Mildenhall confirms who shot her in the kitchen! Not only that but the rifle she was shot with in the kitchen, was also captured in one of the crime scene photographs taken in the kitchen! We now know what DS Davidson was talking about when he was being interviewed by COLP when he told them that the reason why Ron Cook had taken the paint sample (RC/1) from the kitchen aga and given it to him at the scene on 8th August 1985, was because some paint had been found to be present on the end of 'that' guns barrel! 'That' guns barrel, was obviously the gun captured in one of the crime scene photographs which everyone was aware not to comment upon!

But...

I am asking about 'that' rifle!

I want to know all about it?

I want to know who it belonged to?

I want to know if 'that' gun was the gun used in the shooting incident which occured in the kitchen when officers first entered there, as mentioned in the 'officers report (1612, refers)?

What happened to 'that' rifle?

Who took it away?

Don't worry I will never let this matter rest until we get to the bottom of this!

Maybe, that's what the lunch invitation was all about, it was a sort of 'lets clear the air' sort of a meeting over lunch! Ok, 'you know we shot Sheila, but now that we have got Jeremy convicted of killing her, let's forget our differences', 'you got what you wanted and we get to keep what really happened to Sheila a little secret that nobody needs to know anything at all about'...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 09:13:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Noble cause corruption is still corruption, the lot of 'em framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders by going out of their ways to prove that Sheila had not shot herself!

Of course she hadn't and didn't shoot herself, the non disclosed witness statement of PC Mildenhall confirms who shot her in the kitchen! Not only that but the rifle she was shot with in the kitchen, was also captured in one of the crime scene photographs taken in the kitchen! We now know what DS Davidson was talking about when he was being interviewed by COLP when he told them that the reason why Ron Cook had taken the paint sample (RC/1) from the kitchen aga and given it to him at the scene on 8th August 1985, was because some paint had been found to be present on the end of 'that' guns barrel! 'That' guns barrel, was obviously the gun captured in one of the crime scene photographs which everyone was aware not to comment upon!

But...

I am asking about 'that' rifle!

I want to know all about it?

I want to know who it belonged to?

I want to know if 'that' gun was the gun used in the shooting incident which occured in the kitchen when officers first entered there, as mentioned in the 'officers report (1612, refers)?

What happened to 'that' rifle?

Who took it away?

Don't worry I will never let this matter rest until we get to the bottom of this!

Maybe, that's what the lunch invitation was all about, it was a sort of 'lets clear the air' sort of a meeting over lunch! Ok, 'you know we shot Sheila, but now that we have got Jeremy convicted of killing her, let's forget our differences', 'you got what you wanted and we get to keep what really happened to Sheila a little secret that nobody needs to know anything at all about'...

'WOULD YOU LIKE ANOTHER CUP OF COFFEE, MRS EATON'?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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'WOULD YOU LIKE ANOTHER CUP OF COFFEE, MRS EATON'?

'OH, AND NO-ONE MUST EVER FIND OUT THAT YOU HANDED OVER THAT SILENCER TO DC OAKEY ON THE 11th SEPTEMBER, NOW DO THEY'?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 09:16:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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non disclosed witness statement of PC Mildenhall confirms who shot her in the kitchen!


How can you possibly know that if it has not been disclosed?

furthermore you not explained the problems with Sheila's wounds not corresponding to the ammunition used by the police.

Offline mike tesko

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'OH, AND NO-ONE MUST EVER FIND OUT THAT YOU HANDED OVER THAT SILENCER TO DC OAKEY ON THE 11th SEPTEMBER, NOW DO THEY'?

Noble cause corruption doesn't do it for me, it's still corruption, it's still committing a criminal offence, and nobody should be convicted of anything where noble cause corruption has been such an obvious feature in the proceedings...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Noble cause corruption is still corruption, the lot of 'em framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders by going out of their ways to prove that Sheila had not shot herself!

 

I guess what you're saying is this, it's of no relevance that Jeremy is actually guilty -the non forensic evidence about him is very similar to the equally non forensic evidence about Sheila- if just ONE incorrect 'fact' is put forward, eg he got in through a door when he ACTUALLY got in through a window, that he got in is no longer considered, ergo he must be innocent?....................I have to ask this, Mike, but would you be happy to see those who you say have done so much damage to you and your family life walk away scott free? Would you rage against their conviction if you believed noble cause conviction had helped to bring it about, OR would you feel satisfied that, however it had been orchestrated, they'd got their just desserts?

Offline mike tesko

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How can you possibly know that if it has not been disclosed?

furthermore you not explained the problems with Sheila's wounds not corresponding to the ammunition used by the police.

How can you possibly know what I don't or do know?

There's lots and lots of things that I know about this investigation that you and the others don't know!

But, I can assure you (for now) that PC Mildenhall did make a witness statement, which the DPP and police officers decided that it should not be used, and not disclosed to the defence! Now, why would that be?

As for I don't know anything about the wounds? Well, how do you know what I don't or do know?

I know more than you think...

I know that the gap between the lower and the upper wounds in Sheila's neck, is the key evidence which helps to confirm that with the SM fitted to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel, that the lower wound could not have been inflicted using the anshuzt rifle with its SM because it was too long! It was a shorter weapon which fired that shot across the neck downstairs in the kitchen. PC Mildenhalls witness statement reveals all, how do you know if I haven't seen it, or if I have?

I saw crime scene photographs at Ewen Smith's offices in Birmingham which the CCRC loaned him, photographs the defence had never been given access to before! So, I have seen material that is officially still being withheld under pii, or without pii on the pretense that it's been destroyed, or is lost, and missing!

Leave me alone to do what I do best, no need to start barking orders at me like Jeremy tried to do to me - I will decide what I do, not Jeremy Bamber, nor you, or anybody else!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 09:35:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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How can you possibly know what I don't or do know?

There's lots and lots of things that I know about this investigation that you and the others don't know!

But, I can assure you (for now) that PC Mildenhall did make a witness statement, which the DPP and police officers decided that it should not be used, and not disclosed to the defence! Now, why would that be?

As for I don't know anything about the wounds? Well, how do you know what I don't or do know?

I know more than you think...

I know that the gap between the lower and the upper wounds in Sheila's neck, is the key evidence which helps to confirm that with the SM fitted to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel, that the lower wound could not have been inflicted using the anshuzt rifle with its SM because it was too long! It was a shorter weapon which fired that shot across the neck downstairs in the kitchen. PC Mildenhalls witness statement reveals all, how do you know if I haven't seen it, or if I have?

I saw crime scene photographs at Ewen Smith's offices in Birmingham which the CCRC loaned him, photographs the defence had never been given access to before! So, I have seen material that is officially still being withheld under pii, or without pii on the pretense that it's been destroyed, or is lost, and missing!

Leave me alone to do what I do best, no need to start barking orders at me like Jeremy tried to do to me - I will decide what I do, not Jeremy Bamber, nor you, or anybody else!


If it's the case that you know far more/have seen much more regarding this case than you're prepared to share with us, it would appear to be somewhat irregular to say that you're still searching for the truth. It does, however, from your last paragraph, sound as if you're very angry at Jeremy, and almost as if you want revenge. Surely I've got that wrong?

Offline mike tesko

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I guess what you're saying is this, it's of no relevance that Jeremy is actually guilty -the non forensic evidence about him is very similar to the equally non forensic evidence about Sheila- if just ONE incorrect 'fact' is put forward, eg he got in through a door when he ACTUALLY got in through a window, that he got in is no longer considered, ergo he must be innocent?....................I have to ask this, Mike, but would you be happy to see those who you say have done so much damage to you and your family life walk away scott free? Would you rage against their conviction if you believed noble cause conviction had helped to bring it about, OR would you feel satisfied that, however it had been orchestrated, they'd got their just desserts?

It wasn't a case of Jeremy entering the farmhouse at all, be it through a window or a door! He did not shoot any of the four victims who were probably dead by the time the first group of firearm officers arrived at the scene by 5am sharp! As for Sheila's death, well she was still alive at the time the raid team started to smash the farmhouse door in with a sledgehammer! You should really try to pay attention to the detail, which is contained in the police radio message logs and elsewhere as part of the first police file (SC/688/85) when cops had settled for presenting the case as being one of four murders and a suicide which they intended to process through the Coroner's court system, not the Criminal court system! Two bodies downstairs between 7.35am and 8.10am, and the other three bodies upstairs after 8.10am! But for the persistence of the relatives who rightly suspected foul play in the way police reported the tragedy, there would never have been any need to include the presence later on of Sheila's body upstairs in the main bedroom! The evidence that something untoward took place when the raid team entered the kitchen, can be found in the various police messages that were being passed around and banded about between 7.35am and 8.10am...

The officers report (1612, refers) deals with a shooting incident which occured when cops first entered the kitchen (believe it, or not)...

The presence of a rifle in one of the crime scene photographs that no-one was to comment about!

DS Davidson talking about a guns barrel having paint on the end of its barrel that was found downstairs, which he said was not a reference to a silencer!

A piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) which grew into a WHOLE bullet in between 7th August 1985 and the 20th September 1985!

Sheila only having a single bullet entry hole in her neck at a crucial stage of the events!

It's all there, more than enough to show that cops and relatives have framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders, all five of them by proving by a reliance on fake evidence that he must have killed his sister, because she couldn't have shot and killed herself! Of course, I know that she didn't shoot herself, she couldn't have shot herself the first time with the anshuzt rifle with its SM attached on the end of its barrel because it was too long to have been used by herself to inflict that lower neck wound! Insofar as the upper wound, it was technically possible for Sheila to have inflicted that shot (but she didn't) because even with the SM fitted to the barrel of the anshuzt rifle, it was still possible, the gap from the trigger of the gun (when activated) to the position of the upper wound beneath the point of the chin, was the same as if Sheila had shot herself - but this comes about because cops were performing a training exercise which involved trying to make the longer anshuzt rifle with SM fit the gap between the trigger and the lower wound in Sheila's neck! It was impossible, the cops couldn't make it fit, the gap was too small! It was whilst they were trying to force the weapon to fit into that smaller gap, that Sheila's finger was moved and it activated the trigger plunging the fatal bullet (PV/19) up through her mouth into her brain, the gap between the trigger and the upper wound in her neck had been inflicted by the anshuzt rifle and SM...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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PC Mildenhalls witness statement reveals all, how do you know if I haven't seen it, or if I have?

I know PC Mildenhall did not shoot Sheila downstairs or anywhere for that matter. Reasons being -

1. A shot from a Ruger Mini-14 would be far more catastrophic than those seen on Sheila. Such a shot would not fragment and stop at the vertebre. It would pass straight through the neck.

2. There is no blood trail leading from downstairs to upstairs consisting of Sheila's blood.

If you have seen such a statement its a forgery.

Leave me alone to do what I do best, no need to start barking orders at me like Jeremy tried to do to me - I will decide what I do, not Jeremy Bamber, nor you, or anybody else!

You can do as you wish. But instead of pursuing fanciful and non-viable theories simply because you like the idea is doing Jeremy no favours. I would recommend you go along with the actual facts of the case instead.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 10:07:PM by David1819 »

Offline mike tesko

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If it's the case that you know far more/have seen much more regarding this case than you're prepared to share with us, it would appear to be somewhat irregular to say that you're still searching for the truth. It does, however, from your last paragraph, sound as if you're very angry at Jeremy, and almost as if you want revenge. Surely I've got that wrong?

I have never said that I will not share everything that I know or have seen or what I have got access to...

Anger is destructive, I am not angry with Jeremy, he has to do things his way, just like I have to do things my way...

We will see in due course whether his way of dealing with the evidence, works for him!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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It wasn't a case of Jeremy entering the farmhouse at all, be it through a window or a door! He did not shoot any of the four victims who were probably dead by the time the first group of firearm officers arrived at the scene by 5am sharp! As for Sheila's death, well she was still alive at the time the raid team started to smash the farmhouse door in with a sledgehammer! You should really try to pay attention to the detail, which is contained in the police radio message logs and elsewhere as part of the first police file (SC/688/85) when cops had settled for presenting the case as being one of four murders and a suicide which they intended to process through the Coroner's court system, not the Criminal court system! Two bodies downstairs between 7.35am and 8.10am, and the other three bodies upstairs after 8.10am! But for the persistence of the relatives who rightly suspected foul play in the way police reported the tragedy, there would never have been any need to include the presence later on of Sheila's body upstairs in the main bedroom! The evidence that something untoward took place when the raid team entered the kitchen, can be found in the various police messages that were being passed around and banded about between 7.35am and 8.10am...

The officers report (1612, refers) deals with a shooting incident which occured when cops first entered the kitchen (believe it, or not)...

The presence of a rifle in one of the crime scene photographs that no-one was to comment about!

DS Davidson talking about a guns barrel having paint on the end of its barrel that was found downstairs, which he said was not a reference to a silencer!

A piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) which grew into a WHOLE bullet in between 7th August 1985 and the 20th September 1985!

Sheila only having a single bullet entry hole in her neck at a crucial stage of the events!

It's all there, more than enough to show that cops and relatives have framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders, all five of them by proving by a reliance on fake evidence that he must have killed his sister, because she couldn't have shot and killed herself! Of course, I know that she didn't shoot herself, she couldn't have shot herself the first time with the anshuzt rifle with its SM attached on the end of its barrel because it was too long to have been used by herself to inflict that lower neck wound! Insofar as the upper wound, it was technically possible for Sheila to have inflicted that shot (but she didn't) because even with the SM fitted to the barrel of the anshuzt rifle, it was still possible, the gap from the trigger of the gun (when activated) to the position of the upper wound beneath the point of the chin, was the same as if Sheila had shot herself - but this comes about because cops were performing a training exercise which involved trying to make the longer anshuzt rifle with SM fit the gap between the trigger and the lower wound in Sheila's neck! It was impossible, the cops couldn't make it fit, the gap was too small! It was whilst they were trying to force the weapon to fit into that smaller gap, that Sheila's finger was moved and it activated the trigger plunging the fatal bullet (PV/19) up through her mouth into her brain, the gap between the trigger and the upper wound in her neck had been inflicted by the anshuzt rifle and SM...

Mike, you often go to great lengths to answer questions which haven't been asked or points which haven't been raised...................or possibly to avoid answering questions which HAVE been asked or points which HAVE been raised. The above post being an example of such. You suggest I might "try to pay more attention to detail". It's the details which are left out which deserve attention. THEY'RE of far greater interest to me.

Offline mike tesko

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I know PC Mildenhall did not shoot Sheila downstairs or anywhere for that matter. Reasons being -

1. A shot from a Ruger Mini-14 would be far more catastrophic than those seen on Sheila. Such a shot would not fragment and stop at the vertebre. It would pass straight through the neck.

2. There is no blood trail leading from downstairs to upstairs consisting of Sheila's blood.

If you have seen such a statement its a forgery.

You can do as you wish. But instead of pursuing fanciful and non-viable theories simply because you like the idea is doing Jeremy no favours. I would recommend you go along with the actual facts of the case instead.

I never said PC Mildenhall shot Sheila (that's the first thing)...

The officers report (1612, refers) deals with that shooting incident in the kitchen when PS Woodcock entered the kitchen! PC Mildenhall was monitoring the 999 call when the shooting incident in the kitchen occurred! There were two bodies reported as present downstairs in the kitchen (not one body described as two different bodies)! There were only three bodies found upstairs by 8.10am..

I'm not bothered what you say about the damage a bullet fired via a Ruger mini - 14 would cause, all I'm concerned with is that a piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/14) grew into a WHOLE bullet by 20th September 1985..

There wouldn't necessarily have been a blood trail as you put it, from downstairs to upstairs, since after being shot downstairs in the kitchen, Sheila collapsed onto the kitchen floor which convinced the police that she had died! She was laid there on the kitchen floor for a good half an hour before regaining consciousness, and making her way upstairs to the main bedroom, she used the spiral stairs in the corner of the kitchen. She was stood upright when she got shot across the neck downstairs in the kitchen, hence why you see a very front vertically inclined blood trail in her neck going downward toward the collar of her nightdress! The fatal shot under the chin was inflicted during a bungled training exercise at 9.13am  when cops placed the anshuzt rifle with Sheila's body, whilst her body was laid on its back on the bedroom floor, she was therefore laid down when the second shot got inflicted. The gap between the lower wound and the upper wound in Sheila's neck, provides the source for the prosecution knowing that the anshuzt rifle with SM fitted to its barrel was too long for it to have been used to self-inflict the shot against the neck! However, the anshuzt rifle was used with a SM fitted to its barrel when the shot under the chin (the so called upper wound in her neck) was inflicted - in a nutshell, the anshuzt rifle with SM could not have fired the original PV/20 bullet across Sheila's neck!

I don't need you telling me to go along with the facts, or you telling me what's best for Jeremy, I know what the facts are, and the fact is that Sheila could not possibly have shot herself with the anshuzt rifle and SM because the gap between trigger and lower entry wound in her neck was too small for that weapon to have been used as Jeremy and his team are advocating! Sheila didn't shoot herself and that's a fact, and that's the truth! Let Jeremy and his followers believe what they like, but they will never be able to prove that Sheila had shot herself, because she hadn't and she didn't, and she couldn't have!

The only hope Jeremy has got is to go with the truth - the truth is that somebody else shot Sheila across the neck whilst she was present downstairs in the kitchen. The gun which fired the shot across the neck of Sheila was not the anshuzt rifle with a SM fitted to its barrel! There exists an officers report which details that shooting incident in the kitchen, Jeremy would do well to request access to this officers report!I know it's currently being withheld under pii, but he can force the authorities to hand it over providing he can prove that it's contents are pivotal to the integrity of his convictions being wrong! He cannot request to see it's contents on a fishing expedition, he has to say exactly why he needs access to that report, which would be that it would prove beyond doubt that he had not shot his sister, and that he had not staged her death scene upstairs on the main bedroom floor, because the contents of this officers report outline how he (PS Woodcock) shot Sheila in that shooting incident in the kitchen as he was entering the kitchen!

I will continue to do as I like, you don't tell me what to do please, I don't tell you what to do, and if you can't say anything constructive to what I say in my posts why not simply stop reading them!

Good luck with trying to prove that Sheila shot herself twice using the same gun, when she couldn't have!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...