Author Topic: Contact wounds with silencers  (Read 9605 times)

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Offline David1819

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Contact wounds with silencers
« on: December 25, 2017, 09:25:PM »
I have discovered some photos of contact wounds with silencers attached in real homicide cases.

Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 07:31:PM »
I have discovered some photos of contact wounds with silencers attached in real homicide cases.

Spot the difference.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 07:35:PM by David1819 »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 08:31:PM »
There existed a circular bruise / abrasion mark around the lower entry wound in Sheila's neck which appears to have the same radius and circumference as the muzzle end of a SM...

This circular bruise was pointed out to Ewen Smith by Smith and Mallinson at the beginning of 2004, evidence which caused Ewen Smith to concede that if that be the case then Jeremy's convictions could be justified!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 08:38:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 08:54:PM »
There existed a circular bruise / abrasion mark around the lower entry wound in Sheila's neck which appears to have the same radius and circumference as the muzzle end of a SM...

This circular bruise was pointed out to Ewen Smith by Smith and Mallinson at the beginning of 2004, evidence which caused Ewen Smith to concede that if that be the case then Jeremy's convictions could be justified!

If that was the case, the wound would look something as the file attached. But it does not.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 09:05:PM »
Obviously, the discovery of this impression upon the surface of the skin in Sheila's neck was something which dampened our spirits toward trying to find the elusive evidence capable of overturning these convictions! However, undeterred, something the trial judge had said in his summing up, and that which was a significant part of the prosecution's case, forged its way to the forefront of my mind - basically put it related to the fact that it had never been proven by the prosecution's case, that the silencer could have been used on the gun when shooting the others, and that Sheila could have put the silencer away in the gun cupboard where additional ammunition for the rifle was normally kept, before turning the gun minus the silencer upon herself! The prosecution's case, however was that only the upper fatal wound site was contact in nature, and therefore this was the all important shot at which her blood had got into the silencer by a process of backspatter!  Once that shot was inflicted death would follow immediately with little or no time at all for Sheila to remove the silencer and dispose of it, etc...

Well, according to Mallinson and Smith, there was no circular mark around the upper entry wound site in Sheila's neck, but they concluded that there was a mark around the lower entry wound site, which led them to conclude that the end of the silencer had been impressed against the skin when the non fatal shot was inflicted, but not necessarily when the upper wound had been created!

This got me thinking that if the mark they had identified around the lower wound had been caused by the end of a silencers end cap being thrust into a contact position at the time the non fatal lower shot was inflicted and there was a substantial delay between that first shot and the second shot being inflicted, then it was possible for the silencer to have gotten contaminated with Sheila's blood at the time of the first shot, that the silencer could have been taken off or removed and out away, and that at some time afterwards, Sheila sustained the second fatal upper shot which killed her outright! Hence why there was no silencer on the gun when cops said they had found her!

This would explain how the Bloodstained silencer which had been fitted to the guns barrel, was found opinion the cupboard a few days later by David Boutflour!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 09:08:PM »
If that was the case, the wound would look something as the file attached. But it does not.

No, it would not because there had been an attempt at some stage by someone to wipe the vertical  blood flow from the lower wound the appearance of which clearly looks somewhat faded!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 09:15:PM »
No, it would not because there had been an attempt at some stage by someone to wipe the vertical  blood flow from the lower wound the appearance of which clearly looks somewhat faded!

Blood flow from the original entry wound was vertical in fashion, as opposed to the horizontal direction of the upper wound flow of blood in close proximity to the first wound! Sheila was clearly upright at the time of the first non fatal shot, and laid down flat on her back by the time the second fatal shot got inflicted!

There is clearly evidence of a circular bruise / abrasion with the same general characteristics and measurements of a silencers end cap around the lower entry wound site! This bruise / abrasion mark would show up better with the passing of time! It was caused whilst Sheila was alive and did not die as a result of that shot! She only died after the second shot was inflicted. The mark did not show up as a residue stain, it developed as adding bruise because she stayed alive for quite some time after the first shot got inflicted, albeit unconscious for most of that time!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 09:29:PM »
No, it would not because there had been an attempt at some stage by someone to wipe the vertical  blood flow from the lower wound the appearance of which clearly looks somewhat faded!

The wounds in the black and white photos have been cleaned and the blood has been wiped away. The marks in question are searing rings. They do not get wiped away no matter how hard you try.

None of the wound ballisticians in the states could see what you are reffering to, and neither can I.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 09:30:PM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 09:48:PM »
David's still battling away after his errr, stance change.

It seems he's accepted Sheila received a contact and close range shot. Both in locations where there is high blood flow, vessels & no bone or skull protection. Which is unlike the other 4 killed people.

He's now claiming Sheila was not shot with the silencer attached. Slight problem, it was Sheila's blood and the aga paint in the silencer.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2017, 10:01:PM »
He's now claiming Sheila was not shot with the silencer attached. Slight problem, it was Sheila's blood and the aga paint in the silencer.

The one with a slight problem is you. The muzzle marks show no silencer was attached. That rules out the blood inside the silencer coming from those contact wounds.  8)

Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2017, 10:03:PM »
It seems he's accepted Sheila received a contact and close range shot. Both in locations where there is high blood flow, vessels & no bone or skull protection. Which is unlike the other 4 killed people.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2017, 10:13:PM »
The wounds in the black and white photos have been cleaned and the blood has been wiped away. The marks in question are searing rings. They do not get wiped away no matter how hard you try.

None of the wound ballisticians in the states could see what you are reffering to, and neither can I.

There is clearly a circular bruise / abrasion around the lower entry wound on Sheila's neck, which has the same general characteristics and dimensions as though the muzzle end of a silencer has been pressed against the surface of the skin in the region where the first shot was inflicted! This has been verified by Mallinson and Smith, and shown to Ewen Smith who acknowledged the existence of the mark there! Extensive tests relating to this mark were undertaken at the then Birdwell Armoury (Barnsley) in 2003 / 2004, and similar marks / abrasions were captured in both film and video footage showing marks made when the end of a sound moderator was pressed into a volunteers arm and neck, obviously with the volunteer never at peril of being shot, and who did not die as a result of this event! Marks and abrasions might well show up differently or manifest differently dependant upon a number of factors, including whether or not the victim died as a result of such a contact shot involving use of a SM, or when someone survives the shot as occurred in Sheila Caffell's case!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2017, 10:17:PM »
Adam agrees that the blood inside the silencer could either be Sheila's or Robert Boutflours.

After all, as Adam keeps pointing out. There was no industrial frame and the scientists never created false forensic reports.  ;D

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2017, 10:18:PM »
There is clearly a circular bruise / abrasion around the lower entry wound on Sheila's neck, which has the same general characteristics and dimensions as though the muzzle end of a silencer has been pressed against the surface of the skin in the region where the first shot was inflicted! This has been verified by Mallinson and Smith, and shown to Ewen Smith who acknowledged the existence of the mark there! Extensive tests relating to this mark were undertaken at the then Birdwell Armoury (Barnsley) in 2003 / 2004, and similar marks / abrasions were captured in both film and video footage showing marks made when the end of a sound moderator was pressed into a volunteers arm and neck, obviously with the volunteer never at peril of being shot, and who did not die as a result of this event! Marks and abrasions might well show up differently or manifest differently dependant upon a number of factors, including whether or not the victim died as a result of such a contact shot involving use of a SM, or when someone survives the shot as occurred in Sheila Caffell's case!

Jeremy himself acknowledges the presence of this circular abrasion / bruise but he puts it down to the traumatic effect of the bullet penetrating the surface of the skin at the time of infliction! The funny thing is though, there does not appear to exist any other entry wound sight on any victim which displays a similar circular bruise / abrasion mark as this one!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 10:22:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2017, 10:23:PM »
The one with a slight problem is you. The muzzle marks show no silencer was attached. That rules out the blood inside the silencer coming from those contact wounds.  8)

Ok the silencer wasn't attached. The relatives framed Bamber by searching for period blood inside a bucket of water. The police know nothing about it.

So why was there nothing on Sheila or her nightdress ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.