Noob Questions About The Rifle

[Tyler Durden]

@Jon - Wow. Thanks for that pal. It's sure as hell gonna take me a while to get through all of that, but I'll make it!

@ngb - Thanks a lot pal. Could you possibly elaborate on the 'strange circumstances' bit?

[Alias]

Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.

Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.

The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle.  Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle.  There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used.  I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz.  However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.

 

If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.

[Tyler Durden]

...or not at all if they were both pre-loaded.

[nugnug]

Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.

Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.

The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle.  Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle.  There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used.  I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz.  However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.

 

If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.

2  different weapons would tend to suggest 2 shooters

[Tyler Durden]

...not necessarily.
It could simply be a case of going from one to the other...a bit like Arnie in Terminator in the police station shoot out...only not.

...that is if indeed 2 weapons were used. I'm thinking single weapon theory.
If SC pulled the trigger, then maybe she reloaded it twice if she didn't have the strength to put the last couple of bullets into the clip.

Just a guess.

[nugnug]

i cant see the point of one shooter using to different weapons other than not having to reload.

that is of course if 2 weapons were used.

[grahameb]

I believe Sheila planned this thing very carefully and therefore prepared the weapon and ammunition so that everything she did left very little for her to do. She probably waited up until the whole family was asleep and then began her murders. I don't agree that the shots of the rifle would wake the twins, and it is quite obbvious that it didn't. But it does seem that it woke June and Ralph. So it is quite irrelevant to say that the gunshots would have awoken them thererfore a silencer was used as it is quite obvious that it did anyway.

[Alias]

I believe Sheila planned this thing very carefully and therefore prepared the weapon and ammunition so that everything she did left very little for her to do. She probably waited up until the whole family was asleep and then began her murders. I don't agree that the shots of the rifle would wake the twins, and it is quite obbvious that it didn't. But it does seem that it woke June and Ralph. So it is quite irrelevant to say that the gunshots would have awoken them thererfore a silencer was used as it is quite obvious that it did anyway.

I think that June was sleeping the first time she was shot. There is blood on her pillow from a shot to her head.
I wish I could make any sense of the order of the murders - I mean who was shot first and who last. I can't - and that sometimes makes me wonder if two people were involved. That would, in my opinion, exclude Sheila (I know the psychic disagrees...)

[ngb1066]

@Jon - Wow. Thanks for that pal. It's sure as hell gonna take me a while to get through all of that, but I'll make it!

@ngb - Thanks a lot pal. Could you possibly elaborate on the 'strange circumstances' bit?

Try the link below.  I seem to recall there is also an earlier thread where the handing in of the two weapons (one of then the unusual shotgun/rifle combination) is discussed, but I have not been able to find it.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,575.0.html

[ngb1066]

Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.

Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.

The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle.  Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle.  There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used.  I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz.  However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.

 

If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.

abs - that is true and a good point.  Between them the two rifles (if the second one was the bolt action .22 rifle also kept at WHF) could have held 22 rounds in total, 10 rounds in each magazine and one in each breach.  The evidence suggests that either 25 or 27 shots were fired, so if two rifles were used it would only have been necessary to reload with between 3 and 5 additional rounds.  This could have been done individually into the breach so would not necessarily have involved reloading a magazine at any stage.

My own feeling is still that only one rifle was used but I accept that the evidence is not conclusive.

[ngb1066]

Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.

Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.

The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle.  Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle.  There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used.  I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz.  However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.

 

If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.

2  different weapons would tend to suggest 2 shooters

If two weapons were used it is obviously possible that two people were involved, but it would be equally consistent with one person wanting to have the best chance of killing several people without having to reload.  There is no suggestion in the evidence that a second rifle was left out at WHF loaded so if two weapons were used by a single person there must have been a degree of planning in first loading the second rifle before starting the shooting spree.   I do not think the evidence on this, taken with the other available evidence, points clearly to any particular person being responsible.