mugford rwb and the order of death.

[Adam]

He was certainly very determined, but how do you think he managed to plant the silencer evidence, and do you know for a fact that he told Mabel that Jeremy was dead?

Poor Jeremy.

Can a man not go to Eastbourne, Burnham, Pevensey, London, Amsterdam & St Tropez straight after a massacre, without half of EP & his relatives plotting against him.

[nugnug]

Not at all ...

When it came to disputing the will it would be done in a civil court not a criminal court ...

In a civil court - without any other evidence - Julie's statement would be accepted as fact ...

and a civel court is not bound by the verdict of a crimnal court.

plenty of people have beeen inoncent in a criminal court and guilty in a civel court.

[Jane]

He was certainly very determined, but how do you think he managed to plant the silencer evidence, and do you know for a fact that he told Mabel that Jeremy was dead?

I'm not so much of the opinion that RWB told Grannie that Jeremy was dead, as much as he allowed her to believe he'd died with the rest of the family. I have a feeling she never actually asked the question, saying the deaths were "the devil's work".

[Steve_uk]

I'm not so much of the opinion that RWB told Grannie that Jeremy was dead, as much as he allowed her to believe he'd died with the rest of the family. I have a feeling she never actually asked the question, saying the deaths were "the devil's work".

But this begs the question: why change the will at all? It was only because the contingency plan was made due to the possibility that if Jeremy got off he would have a claim on Mabel's estate by inheriting part or all of his mother's share.

[Kaldin]

But this begs the question: why change the will at all? It was only because the contingency plan was made due to the possibility that if Jeremy got off he would have a claim on Mabel's estate by inheriting part or all of his mother's share.

Yes. RB made it quite clear that he didn't want Jeremy to profit from his crime.

[sherlock]

He was certainly very determined, but how do you think he managed to plant the silencer evidence, and do you know for a fact that he told Mabel that Jeremy was dead?

He got his son David Boutflour to "find" it in the cupboard - despite it having blood on David did not "remember" which box he found it in - again hard to believe ...

The relatives had the keys to the farm and according to David's statement they went to the farm to look for other guns and any "clues" ...

His statement said he went first of all to the cupboard and found the silencer with blood on it straight away ... (despite the Police who say they searched that cupboard not finding it) ...

It took me years to realise it is true but Mike is right that there were 4 identical silencers in this case ...

Reading the statements proves he is right - Anthony owned one, David owned one, Robert owned one and Nevill owned one - it is all there in their statements ...

It looks like the Police took one silencer from the farm straight after the murders ...

Which one of the 4 silencers was found in the cupboard by David is anyone's guess in my opinion ...

I am going to start a separate thread about grandma Speakman's will and Robet getting her to change it on her deathbed in hospital ....

[Kaldin]

He got his son David Boutflour to "find" it in the cupboard - despite it having blood on David did not "remember" which box he found it in - again hard to believe ...

The relatives had the keys to the farm and according to David's statement they went to the farm to look for other guns and any "clues" ...

His statement said he went first of all to the cupboard and found the silencer with blood on it straight away ... (despite the Police who say they searched that cupboard not finding it) ...

It took me years to realise it is true but Mike is right that there were 4 identical silencers in this case ...

Reading the statements proves he is right - Anthony owned one, David owned one, Robert owned one and Nevill owned one - it is all there in their statements ...

It looks like the Police took one silencer from the farm straight after the murders ...

Which one of the 4 silencers was found in the cupboard by David is anyone's guess in my opinion ...

I am going to start a separate thread about grandma Speakman's will and Robet getting her to change it on her deathbed in hospital ....

How did RB get blood into the moderator, and how did he get June's DNA in there?

[Steve_uk]

He got his son David Boutflour to "find" it in the cupboard - despite it having blood on David did not "remember" which box he found it in - again hard to believe ...

The relatives had the keys to the farm and according to David's statement they went to the farm to look for other guns and any "clues" ...

His statement said he went first of all to the cupboard and found the silencer with blood on it straight away ... (despite the Police who say they searched that cupboard not finding it) ...

It took me years to realise it is true but Mike is right that there were 4 identical silencers in this case ...

Reading the statements proves he is right - Anthony owned one, David owned one, Robert owned one and Nevill owned one - it is all there in their statements ...

It looks like the Police took one silencer from the farm straight after the murders ...

Which one of the 4 silencers was found in the cupboard by David is anyone's guess in my opinion ...

I am going to start a separate thread about grandma Speakman's will and Robet getting her to change it on her deathbed in hospital ....

Well it wasn't changed in hospital but in her bedroom at Vaulty Manor with doctor and solicitor present. I do have some sympathy with the view that Robert Boutflour left the silencer for his son to find, but if it is true he has taken the secret with him to his deathbed.

[sherlock]

I'm not so much of the opinion that RWB told Grannie that Jeremy was dead, as much as he allowed her to believe he'd died with the rest of the family. I have a feeling she never actually asked the question, saying the deaths were "the devil's work".

I think your version is most likely accurate ...

I am going to start a separate thread on this point ...

We do know he persuaded grandma Speakman to change her will on her deathbed leaving Jeremy out all together ...

Her will was massive - much much larger than Nevill and June's - every one knew she was very old and on her death bed - every one knew Jeremy was set to inherit some of this - why was Jeremy in a rush then to kill his family for a relatively small amount ?

[Steve_uk]

I think your version is most likely accurate ...

I am going to start a separate thread on this point ...

We do know he persuaded grandma Speakman to change her will on her deathbed leaving Jeremy out all together ...

Her will was massive - much much larger than Nevill and June's - every one knew she was very old and on her death bed - every one knew Jeremy was set to inherit some of this - why was Jeremy in a rush then to kill his family for a relatively small amount ?

That's wrong I'm afraid. Mabel left her entire estate to her two blood daughters: Pamela and June.

[Jane]

I think your version is most likely accurate ...

I am going to start a separate thread on this point ...

We do know he persuaded grandma Speakman to change her will on her deathbed leaving Jeremy out all together ...

Her will was massive - much much larger than Nevill and June's - every one knew she was very old and on her death bed - every one knew Jeremy was set to inherit some of this - why was Jeremy in a rush then to kill his family for a relatively small amount ?

I'm not certain that -other than a bequest- Jeremy was ever in her will. The will would have been changed because June was dead and her portion had to be redirected.

[sherlock]

Well it wasn't changed in hospital but in her bedroom at Vaulty Manor with doctor and solicitor present. I do have some sympathy with the view that Robert Boutflour left the silencer for his son to find, but if it is true he has taken the secret with him to his deathbed.

I am 100% convinced David knew that the silencer was a set up - there is a slight chance he did not find out until after the trial - but his not "remembering" which box he found it in virtually rules that out for me though ...

I am 100% convinced David has a guilty conscience about that silencer ...

[sherlock]

That's wrong I'm afraid. Mabel left her entire estate to her two blood daughters: Pamela and June.

Do you have a source for that please ?

[Adam]

He got his son David Boutflour to "find" it in the cupboard - despite it having blood on David did not "remember" which box he found it in - again hard to believe ...

The relatives had the keys to the farm and according to David's statement they went to the farm to look for other guns and any "clues" ...

His statement said he went first of all to the cupboard and found the silencer with blood on it straight away ... (despite the Police who say they searched that cupboard not finding it) ...

It took me years to realise it is true but Mike is right that there were 4 identical silencers in this case ...

Reading the statements proves he is right - Anthony owned one, David owned one, Robert owned one and Nevill owned one - it is all there in their statements ...

It looks like the Police took one silencer from the farm straight after the murders ...

Which one of the 4 silencers was found in the cupboard by David is anyone's guess in my opinion ...

I am going to start a separate thread about grandma Speakman's will and Robet getting her to change it on her deathbed in hospital ....

Shouldn't you be contacting Bamber instead ?

After all 'you've solved the case at last'. Which will please Bamber as he's been trying for 32 years to get his conviction overturned.

Posting on here is not 'letting the world know'. Similar to Nugs & David's posts & threads, it may make guilters even more convinced. Although you're cocaine thread was interesting but very optimistic.

[sherlock]

Poor Jeremy.

Can a man not go to Eastbourne, Burnham, Pevensey, London, Amsterdam & St Tropez straight after a massacre, without half of EP & his relatives plotting against him.

Typically Adam when you have no answers to the points raised you change the topic ...

Do you think Jeremy should have :

a) stayed at the Farm ?

b) stayed in his cottage ?

c) took some holidays to get his mind off the tragedy ?

What would you have actually done in his situation Adam ?

Where exactly would you have stayed in that month or so ?

I would have done exactly what Jeremy did - and it was also in line with his new and short lived status as a wealthy man ...