Maxine Carr/Julie Mugford. Differences.

[buddy]

We would expect her to know right from wrong but she really didn't seem to.
Imo she seemed to lack the ability to make good choices which makes me wonder about her.
Also makes me wonder about her Mother and Father and Stepfather.  I have always felt JM lacked morals/boundaries. 
It would be interesting to know more about her because we really don't know much at all about her background  and personality.

Breathe of fresh air as normal Maggie.

[lookout]

It's no use Lookout, The JM lovers will continue to make excuses for her. She knew from day one for F---s sake, and said nothing. Unless of course she knew nothing, and decided to frame JB.

JM acted appallingly in court,falling about in floods of tears when questioned by the defence. I wouldn't have stood for that. They should have allowed intervals for " composure " and continued until they got the truth out of her. Her crying told me she was lying anyway and was uncomfortable with the questioning. A sure way of halting the procedure. I bet she didn't cry when she picked up her cheque ! The woman doesn't fool me.

[Adam]

Certainly, I don't believe I would now. At 20? Insecure? Desperate for the person I loved to love me? Terrified I'd lose him if I didn't go along with his plans? DESPERATE to get away from parents? I MAY have done whatever I thought it would take. I can't put my hand on my heart and say I wouldn't have covered.............but I'd have cracked, anyway. I couldn't have lived with the lie.

She went along with his plans because she didn't believe he was serious.

Not approaching the police on day one was perhaps worthy of a 3 month suspended prison sentence. But only if Bamber had confessed & the police didn't need her.

[buddy]

Certainly, I don't believe I would now. At 20? Insecure? Desperate for the person I loved to love me? Terrified I'd lose him if I didn't go along with his plans? DESPERATE to get away from parents? I MAY have done whatever I thought it would take. I can't put my hand on my heart and say I wouldn't have covered.............but I'd have cracked, anyway. I couldn't have lived with the lie.

That's a honest answer Jane, thankyou. JM didn't crack did she?

[Jane]

That's a honest answer Jane, thankyou. JM didn't crack did she?

As Maggie and I have both said, much about the adult Julie is dependent on the role models she observed -and from whom she learned- during her formative years. After that, it was too late. By then, her personal way of being would have become instinctive.

[Adam]

Anyway, as said already, the police didn't need Carr for a conviction at trial. Huntley had confessed.

So the police prosecuted Carr for very serious crimes on the Huntley case & she spent 18 months in prison.


The police needed Julie as a witness. Bamber was pleading 'not guilty'.

Julie's crime regarding the Bamber case was nowhere near as bad as Carr's. The police decided not to attempt to obtain a 3 month 'suspended' prison sentence on Julie. Preferring to focus on a horrific 5x massacre. 

I hope supporters don't continue claiming Julie should have been prosecuted.

[buddy]

As Maggie and I have both said, much about the adult Julie is dependent on the role models she observed -and from whom she learned- during her formative years. After that, it was too late. By then, her personal way of being would have become instinctive.

Jane thankyou for your reply. The fact is JM had lived outside her family for years. She had a mind of her own. It is not a case of not telling on a trivial matter, it was murder. Remember it was her idea to commit fraud.

[Adam]

Jane thankyou for your reply. The fact is JM had lived outside her family for years. She had a mind of her own. It is not a case of not telling on a trivial matter, it was murder. Remember it was her idea to commit fraud.

She did tell the police. Betraying Bamber after 20 days. It's in her 24 page WS. She also testified.

She just didn't go to the police on day 1 which is what you are clinging onto. She was Bamber's girlfriend & in shock.

The 1984 minor cheque book fruad with Susan Battersby is nothing to do with the case.

[Jane]

Jane thankyou for your reply. The fact is JM had lived outside her family for years. She had a mind of her own. It is not a case of not telling on a trivial matter, it was murder. Remember it was her idea to commit fraud.

The fact of her having "lived outside her family for years" makes not an iota of difference, Buddy. She'll have no memories of what she learned, on a daily basis, as a baby, then a toddler. Yes, she'll have had a mind of her own, but that mind set would have been formed when she was far to young tom have formed any opinions. They are the things -instincts- which will come to the fore before anything else. Not just with Julie. For all of us. Next time you do something instinctively -out of habit- ask yourself why. See if you can remember from where the suggestion came that you should do it/say it that way. See how many times you catch yourself saying the things your parents said. Watch when you see a friend/relative laugh as a child, just able to speak, repeats what adults say. The child will have no idea what it's talking about. It's just copying adults.

[susan]

She went along with his plans because she didn't believe he was serious.

Not approaching the police on day one was perhaps worthy of a 3 month suspended prison sentence. But only if Bamber had confessed & the police didn't need her.

Adam you say Julie did not think Jeremy was serious about killing his family what would she have thought on the morning after the murders would that have been serious enough for her.

[susan]

She did tell the police. Betraying Bamber after 20 days. It's in her 24 page WS. She also testified.

She just didn't go to the police on day 1 which is what you are clinging onto. She was Bamber's girlfriend & in shock.

The 1984 minor cheque book fruad with Susan Battersby is nothing to do with the case.

Adam if that is the case about the cheque book fraud having nothing to do with the case is not true it shows Julie had a very dishonest streak in her and it makes me wonder what else she was dishonest about.  Fraud is a serous criminal offence.

[buddy]

The fact of her having "lived outside her family for years" makes not an iota of difference, Buddy. She'll have no memories of what she learned, on a daily basis, as a baby, then a toddler. Yes, she'll have had a mind of her own, but that mind set would have been formed when she was far to young tom have formed any opinions. They are the things -instincts- which will come to the fore before anything else. Not just with Julie. For all of us. Next time you do something instinctively -out of habit- ask yourself why. See if you can remember from where the suggestion came that you should do it/say it that way. See how many times you catch yourself saying the things your parents said. Watch when you see a friend/relative laugh as a child, just able to speak, repeats what adults say. The child will have no idea what it's talking about. It's just copying adults.

Shall we now blame our parents then? My dad did a bunk when I was about five. My lovely mum bought up four of us, and sadly died when I was sixteen. She taught us right from wrong, and I had a wonderful life. She always said don't do anything wrong or they will take you away from me. We had free rein, but never got into trouble. None of us committed any crime except me {two on a bike}

[David1819]

Maxine Carr/Julie Mugford. Differences

Maxine Carr told lies to begin with Julie Mugford did not. Maxine Carr became an honest witness later on  Mugford did not.

[Adam]

Adam if that is the case about the cheque book fraud having nothing to do with the case is not true it shows Julie had a very dishonest streak in her and it makes me wonder what else she was dishonest about.  Fraud is a serous criminal offence.

The judge disagrees.

In his summing up he said both Bamber or Julie may have committed other crimes, however it does not mean either lied in this trial.

[Jane]

Shall we now blame our parents then? My dad did a bunk when I was about five. My lovely mum bought up four of us, and sadly died when I was sixteen. She taught us right from wrong, and I had a wonderful life. She always said don't do anything wrong or they will take you away from me. We had free rein, but never got into trouble. None of us committed any crime except me {two on a bike}

And as a small child, I'll bet you were more scared of being taken away from your lovely mun, than getting into trouble for doing something wrong. You learned right from wrong. Supposing though, you'd only ever learned that it was getting caught which was bad? The message here is more about it not being important what you do. Buddy, ALL parents have a responsibility towards their children. Children copy and learn from adults, NOT the other way round. YOU were lucky enough to have a good role model. Many aren't so lucky.