Why the police did not disturb the kitchen crime scene:

[Adam]

Adam none of us mortal beings knows if some of Sheila's clothes were removed from the crime scene or indeed maybe more evidence on her nightie that is being denied to us I have no source and neither have you keep an open mind like I do.

There are no reports of clothes being removed.

The pictures of Sheila's nightie don't show any damage or oil. But it may have been covered in GSR & other people's blood. The Industrial frame ensuring this evidence was withheld.

I have tried to find out more about how the industrial frame was organised. As it was gigantic. Roch posted one post on it & then said he would not post about it again. No one else has said much.

Perhaps you can take the lead on the industrial frame.

[susan]

There are no reports of clothes being removed.

The pictures of Sheila's nightie don't show any damage or oil. But it may have been covered in GSR & other people's blood. The Industrial frame ensuring this evidence was withheld.

I have tried to find out more about how the industrial frame was organised. As it was gigantic. Roch posted one post on it & then said he would not post about it again. No one else has said much.

Perhaps you can take the lead on the industrial frame.

Adam the only lead I can take is on my neighbours dog

[maggie]

There are no reports of clothes being removed.

The pictures of Sheila's nightie don't show any damage or oil. But it may have been covered in GSR & other people's blood. The Industrial frame ensuring this evidence was withheld.

I have tried to find out more about how the industrial frame was organised. As it was gigantic. Roch posted one post on it & then said he would not post about it again. No one else has said much.

Perhaps you can take the lead on the industrial frame.

You aren't in the least bit interested in anything Roch had to say.  You denied point blank that Sheila had scratches and cuts on her hand which could be seen on the photo put up by Bill or that the marks on her arm from photos in the archives just maybe have been nail marks which had bled. Why should anyone bother to say anymore about it if people are just going to ridicule it? 
I thought the debate was about the truth not about scoring points.

[maggie]

Adam the only lead I can take is on my neighbours dog

 

[susan]

You aren't in the least bit interested in anything Roch had to say.  You denied point blank that Sheila had scratches and cuts on her hand which could be seen on the photo put up by Bill or that the marks on her arm from photos in the archives just maybe have been nail marks which had bled. Why should anyone bother to say anymore about it if people are just going to ridicule it? 
I thought the debate was about the truth not about scoring points.

Maggie this forum is not about the truth because posters who are adamant Jeremy is guilty are not even prepared to debate on posts that do not please them.  I can fully understand why Bill and Roch will not bother posting as their posts are ridiculed.  I understand this forum is about a MOJ not Jeremy is guilty and don't even disagree or you are for it.

[Adam]

You aren't in the least bit interested in anything Roch had to say.  You denied point blank that Sheila had scratches and cuts on her hand which could be seen on the photo put up by Bill or that the marks on her arm from photos in the archives just maybe have been nail marks which had bled. Why should anyone bother to say anymore about it if people are just going to ridicule it? 
I thought the debate was about the truth not about scoring points.

Totally unconvinving.

The photo's showed smudges on the back of her hand.

I am interested in what Roch has to say. I asked him several times what other weapon Bamber should have used. As well as whether the evidence he saw in March 2017 has been passed to Bamber's legal advisors.

I got no response although Roch brought these issues up.

[Jan]

You forgot to post this section of the COA.

DCI Cook - ". We have been supplied with statements from every member of the firearms team all of whom positively assert that save for moving two stools they moved nothing and disturbed nothing upon entering the kitchen".


239. We have considered with great care the statements of PC Collins and PC Delgado who must have been the two officers who entered first at about 7.30 a.m. on the 7 August. PC Collins in a statement of the same date describes forcing an entry into the house and seeing the body of a male person positioned over an upturned chair, which balanced against a cupboard. Having described that person and concluding that he was dead he said:

"On looking around the kitchen I saw upturned chairs and stools and broken crockery on the floor, and on the floor on the far side of the room there were small spots of what appeared to be blood. It appeared that a violent struggle had taken place within this room".

241. On 30 September PC Collins made a second statement in which he said:

"I moved two kitchen stools which were laying down near to the hallway entrance. I moved these stools about 2 or 3 feet but left them in a similar position as they were found.

Like I said ainsley said yes the others said no . So what is your point ? We know there were injuries to Neville very severe , but some of them could have been caused whilst collapsed in the chair ? Or even unconscious ? And like I said there was nothing else on the table disturbed or items around the fire place ?

So where are you going with this ?

[Jan]

A recent thread was created on the advantages Bamber had over Sheila in the kitchen fight.

Not if he had been shot he didn't ?

[Jan]

No I don't think there was a HUGE kitchen fight .

There is nothing else in the room that indicates that?

Perhaps Neville stumbled around in his pain after being shot knocked over some furniture  , blood on the floor , and then collapsed in the chair ? Then was attacked .

Or perhaps as ainsley said ( the man in charge) the raid team knocked some things over ?

We have no idea what happened earlier in the evening if it was Sheila ? They may have had an argument earlier in the night and Neville thought he had calmed her down ? She may have thrown the sugar bowl at him ?

Who knows?

I don't think there is anything that indicates who was responsible .

[Jan]

It was 7.30am in the summer. Therefore full daylight.

They are highly trained & trained to not to knock things over.   I would like to see that part of the training manual .

They said they didn't knock anything over.  Disputed in police records not by posters

There was no resistance in the kitchen as Bamber shot her upstairs. ? Are you not contradicting your self?

There was no resistance in the kitchen according to the CT's/Bamber's own version.  See your next point which is correct?

Nevill was found in the kitchen with multiple horrific injuries not created by bullet shots. Suggesting there was a huge fight.   . When were those injuries caused in relation to the shots?

The raid team just had to walk through the kitchen on the way to go upstairs.  Yes I expect they took a leisurely stroll after all they had waited for hours  why rush in now?

There was a smashed ceiling light & aga scratches. Again suggesting a kitchen fight.  The raid team would not smash ceiling lights & scratch aga's.   Assumption .

The 2002 COA dismissed the suggestion the police disturbed the kitchen crime scene.  Yes well it was ainsley report that made them discuss it in the first place .

                                      -----------------

Hopefully the rather lame claim that the police disturbed the crime scene will no longer be made.

[maggie]

Totally unconvinving.

The photo's showed smudges on the back of her hand.

I am interested in what Roch has to say. I asked him several times what other weapon Bamber should have used. As well as whether the evidence he saw in March 2017 has been passed to Bamber's legal advisors.

I got no response although Roch brought these issues up.

Funny that, ngb seemed to think he could see something other than smudges but what does he know.

[maggie]

Totally unconvinving.

The photo's showed smudges on the back of her hand.

I am interested in what Roch has to say. I asked him several times what other weapon Bamber should have used. As well as whether the evidence he saw in March 2017 has been passed to Bamber's legal advisors.

I got no response although Roch brought these issues up.

You probably didn't get any response from Roch because you didn't show him any respect about the photo,

[Adam]

No I don't think there was a HUGE kitchen fight .

There is nothing else in the room that indicates that?

Perhaps Neville stumbled around in his pain after being shot knocked over some furniture  , blood on the floor , and then collapsed in the chair ? Then was attacked .

Or perhaps as ainsley said ( the man in charge) the raid team knocked some things over ?

We have no idea what happened earlier in the evening if it was Sheila ? They may have had an argument earlier in the night and Neville thought he had calmed her down ? She may have thrown the sugar bowl at him ?

Who knows?

I don't think there is anything that indicates who was responsible .

42. The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.

                                         ----------------

Broken stock of rifle, damaged & removed watch, upturned chairs & stools, smashed ceiling light, spilled sugar, aga scratch marks. A man fighting for his & his families life after being shot. Nevill's head on top of a coal scuttle.

Not sure what else needs to be supplied.

[Adam]

Reasons why Bamber would not get injured in the kitchen fight

He was wearing shoes.

He was wearing protective clothing.

He would have hands and head protection. Gloves & a balaclava.

He was physically as strong as Nevill.

He was mentally alert and not on Haloperidol.

He was physically alert & not on Haloperidol.

Nevill did not have the chance to restrain Bamber prior to being shot four times. 

The fight was 'ferocious' however Bamber could defend himself if he needed to.

Bamber was not checked for a long time.

He was fully focused and determined.



Reasons why Sheila would get injured

She was bare footed.

She was 8 stone lighter than Nevill.

She was 9 inches shorter.

Nevill was over twice as  strong.

She had no protective clothing.

She had no head or hand protection.

A fully fit Nevill had the option of physically confronting Sheila prior to shots being fired. This is what was suggested happened by Lucy. It would be a million to one that a fully fit Nevill would lose this confrontation. 

Sheila had no physical co ordinaton due to Haloperidol.

Sheila had no mental alertness due to Haloperidol.

The fight was 'ferocious' and was 'life or death'. One person dying with horrific injuries while Sheila had no injuries is not credible.

The crime scene shows a big fight occurred.

[susan]

42. The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.

                                         ----------------

Broken stock of rifle, damaged & removed watch, upturned chairs & stools, smashed ceiling light, spilled sugar, aga scratch marks. A man fighting for his & his families life after being shot. Nevill's head on top of a coal scuttle.

Not sure what else needs to be supplied.

Adam we have discussed the watch before Nevill may have removed it before retiring and left it on the table. We have also discussed and agreed that Nevill was beaten with the rifle so hard the stock of the rifle was broken.  The raid team admitted to some of the spilled sugar and it is not difficult to knock chairs over.  Scratch marks on Aga not conclusive as far as I am concerned