Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[mike tesko]

Based on all the information we now have access to, the anshuzt rifle went on a journey after Sheila Caffell placed it at the box room window for the police to see at around 7.15am, that morning!

It eventually found its way into the main bedroom at around 8.44am, it was alongside the body at that stage (Craig and another), we don't know exactly where it was at 9am when PS Adams saw Sheila's body (minus the rifle), but by 9.10am we know that the said rifle was laying on the bed between the bodies of Sheila and June! We don't know where the rifle was at 9.30am, when the Coroners Officer, PC Wright viewd Sheila's body (the rifle had been removed from the body by that stage). What we do know, is that the rifle iin question was photographed by Oakey and Henderson resting near the main bedroom window as shown in photograph no. 23, and that then DC Oakey photographed Sheila in possession of the said rifle as shown in photograph no. 26 (which shows the barrel of the anshuzt rifle resting against the left side of her neck!). These activities and duties took place prior to 10am, when the first team of SOCO had controlof the farmhouse which coincided with senior officers carrying out 'infomatives' using the bodies of victims and exhibits of evidential value! Then allong came the second team of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley) after 10am, by which stage the bodies of victims had already been physically abused and staged, and PC Bird took further photographs showing the rifle in a different position on Sheila Caffells body (as shown in photographs, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, etc)...

The prosecution of Jeremy Bamber was therefore supported by concocted evidence, the exhibit references had no real value other than to enable Essexolice to pull the wool over everyones eyes, including the jury, about the validity of PC Birds photographs, a dangerous deception, claiming they represented thhe crime scene undisturbed, when in fact they were part of a police cponspiracy to pervert the course of justice involving the manner with which Sheila Caffell had died inside whf..

What must be factual is that 'Ron' Cook could not have removed any rifle from on top of Sheila Caffells body prior to 10am, and not until after PC Bird had finished taking photographs, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, etc, which as we all know he did not start taking until after 10am. So, that leaves PI Montgomery and PS Woodcock...

Well, according to PS Woodcock, it was 11.10am, before he removed the anshuzt rifle from Sheila Caffells body!

This leaves only PI Montgomery to have moved the rifle from Sheila's body after the shot under the chin once Sheila's body was moved from the bed to the floor and the rifle used in a gauging exercise on Sheila's body detonated the fatal shot which killed her outright, immediately. Montgomery stood the rifle at the main bedroom window as shown in photograph no. 23, not 'Ron' Cook..

[susan]

You think it would be wise for us to find common ground?

The only thing THEY have in common?

Well if that is not grouping posters into us and them I don't know what is.

Personally I am aware of no cheer leader . I think most posters on here clearly act as individuals and are asking others on both sides questions and most  don't have a gang mentality . They are intelligently not jumping to conclusions. 

It's not as if there have never been miscarriages of justice before and some posters have readily admitted some police officers do lie to get their man . So I think perhaps more respect .

I am sure we are all on here for a reason .

Not sure I can fathom everyone's reason , but hey , live and let live.

Jan
that is an excellent post and so very true. and worded so well. 

[mike tesko]

Yet to be adduced, is who was responsible for taking the anshuzt rifle from the box room window, into the main bedroom, and laying it alongside Sheila's body which according to the police surgeon was 'on the far side of the bed' at 8.44am, which was still on the bed inbetween the bodies of Sheila and June at 9.10am when Jones and Clark visited the main bedroom and viewed the bodies and the gun, or who was manipulating the anshuzt rifle on Sheila's body when she received the fatal shot (bullet PV/19) beneath the chin?

PS Woodcock!

[Jane]

You think it would be wise for us to find common ground?

The only thing THEY have in common?

Well if that is not grouping posters into us and them I don't know what is.

Personally I am aware of no cheer leader . I think most posters on here clearly act as individuals and are asking others on both sides questions and most  don't have a gang mentality . They are intelligently not jumping to conclusions. 

It's not as if there have never been miscarriages of justice before and some posters have readily admitted some police officers do lie to get their man . So I think perhaps more respect .

I am sure we are all on here for a reason .

Not sure I can fathom everyone's reason , but hey , live and let live.

All those who state reasons are disagreeing with others who state reasons. It isn't I who's doing the grouping. You do that yourselves. You speak mof yourselves as "intelligently not jumping to conclusions" but such -by some of your number- is EXACTLY why there are heated disagreements. You're perfectly correct in that there HAVE been previous MoJ's, and, yes, there have been, and undoubtedly, are still corrupt members of the police, but poor as I am mathematically, one plus one have never made five. I don't actually believe you have any more right to ask for more respect than the rest of us. From where I'm sitting I experience, from you, as little respect as possible for those of us who don't think Jeremy is innocent. Hardly living and allowing to live, is it?

[Jan]

All those who state reasons are disagreeing with others who state reasons. It isn't I who's doing the grouping. You do that yourselves. You speak mof yourselves as "intelligently not jumping to conclusions" but such -by some of your number- is EXACTLY why there are heated disagreements. You're perfectly correct in that there HAVE been previous MoJ's, and, yes, there have been, and undoubtedly, are still corrupt members of the police, but poor as I am mathematically, one plus one have never made five. I don't actually believe you have any more right to ask for more respect than the rest of us. From where I'm sitting I experience, from you, as little respect as possible for those of us who don't think Jeremy is innocent. Hardly living and allowing to live, is it?

Sorry you feel like that because I don't feel that is true at all .

But your post to me was lumping all of us who believe Jeremy to be innocent together and you know that's not true . You have seen my posts to Mike for example several times querying his theories . And asking David and Roch questions. So if you think I am going to jump onto any particular bandwagon in order to strengthen my belief then you are mistaken , and I in turn respect other posters who think he is innocent or guilty ( as long as they don't exaggerate or embellish for attention) .

And personally I don't think it is wise to take someone else's view and follow it without question .

Just because you have a legal ruling on your side  does not necessarily mean you are right.

In some ways I hope you are because I would never want to think of a man in jail for all these years on an unsafe conviction based on non disclosure or lies .   I really don't.

[Adam]

There is no grouping on either side.

I go by the forensic & circumstantial evidence. Together with no one being able to explain how Sheila committed the massacre. Other guilters don't believe that there being no Sheila scenario proves anything, which is strange. Others engaged with Bamber himself before coming to a guilty opinion.

Supporters give various reasons for support. JackieD because Julie identified the twins & Buddy because Bamber didn't lobb Julie overboard. Notsure is impressed that Bamber still protests his innocence via twitter while Nugs thinks poachers would have seen Bamber cycling to WHF.

[guest7363]

There is no grouping on either side.

I go by the forensic & circumstantial evidence. Together with no one being able to explain how Sheila committed the massacre. Other guilters don't believe that there being no Sheila scenario proves anything, which is strange. Others engaged with Bamber himself before coming to a guilty opinion.

Supporters give various reasons for support. JackieD because Julie identified the twins & Buddy because Bamber didn't lobb Julie overboard. Notsure is impressed that Bamber still protests his innocence via twitter while Nugs thinks poachers would have seen Bamber cycling to WHF.

Maybe someone could find some common ground with you on this Adam?

[susan]

Sorry you feel like that because I don't feel that is true at all .

But your post to me was lumping all of us who believe Jeremy to be innocent together and you know that's not true . You have seen my posts to Mike for example several times querying his theories . And asking David and Roch questions. So if you think I am going to jump onto any particular bandwagon in order to strengthen my belief then you are mistaken , and I in turn respect other posters who think he is innocent or guilty ( as long as they don't exaggerate or embellish for attention) .

And personally I don't think it is wise to take someone else's view and follow it without question .

Just because you have a legal ruling on your side  does not necessarily mean you are right.

In some ways I hope you are because I would never want to think of a man in jail for all these years on an unsafe conviction based on non disclosure or lies .   I really don't.

Jan the last point you make is very magnanimous of you to feel like that and I just wish more could feel the same way if Jeremy is found to be innocent and he is freed to have some years as a free man to try and enjoy all he has missed like a wife children and other things we all enjoy. If only some would keep an open mind and try to discuss the case as we can all learn something from a sensible debate and not scoring points.

[Jan]

There is no grouping on either side.

I go by the forensic & circumstantial evidence. Together with no one being able to explain how Sheila committed the massacre. Other guilters don't believe that there being no Sheila scenario proves anything, which is strange. Others engaged with Bamber himself before coming to a guilty opinion.

Supporters give various reasons for support. JackieD because Julie identified the twins & Buddy because Bamber didn't lobb Julie overboard. Notsure is impressed that Bamber still protests his innocence via twitter while Nugs thinks poachers would have seen Bamber cycling to WHF.

Adam you are totally misrepresenting what people have said and summarising thier opinions with single points that are not even accurate . So personally I think you are grasping at straws.

If I take one point ( just the one) I personally do think that the fact that Julie identified the twins is a CONTRIBUTING factor to some posters opinions . Most of them find it very difficult to believe that she would identify the twins when her later statements state she KNEW he had killed them . Therefore they are of the opinion that at that point of time she did not know he was guilty in other words she thought him innocent . Because who on earth would do what she did . But that of course would mean her later statements were not true and her first statements were true.

So as I say it is a point BUT NOT the total reason some posters believe his innocence .

And if you ever want some pointers about poachers and living in the countryside please let me know😎

But I can tell you 100% owls are not the target of poachers 😀

[Caroline]

What I'm trying to say is that the two marks are easier to make out in post 694 than they are in 687.  Hope this makes sense 

It makes not odds because none of those marks were there when an enlarged photograph of the back of Sheila's right hand was shown in court.

[Jan]

There is no grouping on either side.

I go by the forensic & circumstantial evidence. Together with no one being able to explain how Sheila committed the massacre. Other guilters don't believe that there being no Sheila scenario proves anything, which is strange. Others engaged with Bamber himself before coming to a guilty opinion.

Supporters give various reasons for support. JackieD because Julie identified the twins & Buddy because Bamber didn't lobb Julie overboard. Notsure is impressed that Bamber still protests his innocence via twitter while Nugs thinks poachers would have seen Bamber cycling to WHF.

Out of interest why do you think Jeremy has spent so many years going over and over the evidence to prove his innocence when at one stage he could have been in line for parole if he had admitted guilt .

And by the way I am still waiting for that one piece of forensic evidence that proves he is responsible .

[Caroline]

Out of interest why do you think Jeremy has spent so many years going over and over the evidence to prove his innocence when at one stage he could have been in line for parole if he had admitted guilt .

And by the way I am still waiting for that one piece of forensic evidence that proves he is responsible .

There are a few reasons.

Wouldn't be wanting to be known as a child killer
Once he confesses, he's no longer special
If he confessed, did his time and got parole, there would be no compo and he'd go where and do what?

[Caroline]

Who has the role of Cheerleader? 

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you that Vanezis' handwritten notes were re-written.  I touted it as a possibility.   It's not my fault that SC is covered in wounds.  It's the result of either one or both other adult victims attacking her arm, and trying to restrain her, prior to losing their own lives.  They too also sustained fight injuries in return. 

Their daughter literally went berserk.

His notes have to be fake or you theory falls flat on it derriere - OK now explain why no one picked up on those cuts from the ENLARGED post mortem photograph of the back of her right hand?

[Roch]

It makes not odds because none of those marks were there when an enlarged photograph of the back of Sheila's right hand was shown in court.

I'm not sure how you work that one out.  But anyway - the post numbers in question don't have images of Sheila's hand.  They have images of her arm.

[Roch]

His notes have to be fake or you theory falls flat on it derriere - OK now explain why no one picked up on those cuts from the ENLARGED post mortem photograph of the back of her right hand?

Perhaps his notes are not complete?  Perhaps he described contamination separately from wounds.  You're really hanging on these notes mind