Noble cause

[JackieD]

Of course it's a huge argument Caroline, I'm not disputing that and of course no one should walk free after committing any murder.

For all that guilt or innocence has to be proven without corruption imo honesty in the judicial system is paramount. As I said any corruption noble or not is the thin edge of the wedge imo.

thank you Maggie perfect reply

[JackieD]

Maggie Justice is not just about a guilty man walking free but also about an innocent man given a whole life tariff for a crime he did not commit a case should go to Court with genuine evidence available.

Thank you Susan, there is no room for nobel cause corruption, no grey areas

[maggie]

This thread is locked until I have time to edit it once again.  Have just moved some abuse and now there's a whole bunch more.    Please try to stick to the thread and leave personalities out of it. Cheers.

[sherlock]

Hi buddy
IMO Noble Cause Corruption is never acceptable.  We are supposed to have one of the best justice systems in the world because of habeas corpus, innocent before proven guilty etc.  Even so we still should be aware of corruption in our legal system.

Have you read about the appalling case of Christopher Alder and the massive cover up by police?

It's the thin end of the wedge and we should never accept any kind of corruption in our legal system. 

Better that one guilty person goes free than we close our eyes to corruption, manipulation and lying in the legal system.

Your post is so far from actual reality that I had to log in after a few months break to correct you !
You said "We are supposed to have one of the best legal systems in the world" - how naïve are you ?
We have one of the worst legal systems in the entire world.
Miscarriages of justice happen hundreds of times a day in this country.
That includes civil as well as criminal miscarriages.
We live in a system corrupt from the absolute top down.
If Ted Heath was still alive he would be interviewed under caution for killing children.
Thatcher was extremely close friends with Jimmy  Saville.
Do you think our more recent leaders were allowed into power without our rulers already having holds on them ?
We live in an extremely corrupt society.
Actually go to any Court in this country and open your eyes.
You will see after a short time that I am 100% correct - we have one of the worst Court systems on the entire planet.
There is an illusion of justice in this country - but it is just that - an illusion.
Go to a few Court houses before answering this with opinions you have been given by our tightly controlled media.
You probably think we have a free media in this country ?
We absolutely do not.
Try to start an independent newspaper in this country and see what they do to you.
There is no free press in England - they are too scared of it to allow it.
If their secrets got out they would be finished in minutes.
I know 100% what I am talking about through huge life long experience of these things.
And remember when you come to realise how shockingly appalling our current Court system is then just remember it was a lot worse in 1985.

[sherlock]

There are over 50 pieces of forensic evidence showing it was not Sheila. So it had to be Bamber.

Although there have been suggestions from Mike, Sherlock & even Bamber of a third party commiting the massacre.

Hello Adam - don't forget Julie Mugford from your list - she also said a third party committed the massacre ...

The Yorkshire Ripper was arrested and released to kill more victims - because he had an "unshakeable" alibi - he isn't the only UK serial killer that this has happened to either - does anyone anywhere actually know what Malcoms "unshakeable alibi" actually was ?

If his alibi was ever disproved then every thing in this case would make perfect sense to me - I would have no more unanswered questions ...

WPC Jeaves almost certainly saw a rifle in the window that was not there later -( add that to the possible  "movement" spotted in another window ) - in my mind there was someone else in the farm alive when Jeremy was outside - was it Malcolm ?

Every body makes mistakes - including plenty of Police Officers - but when a firearms INSTRUCTOR says she thought she saw a gun in a window then you can bet your life that she thought she saw a gun in that window and that she almost certainly actually did see a gun in that window ...
Firearms INSTRUCTORS just don't make mistakes like that easily ...
There is a very strong possibility indeed that she was correct ...

Ask yourself this one question Adam :

What specific reasons absolutely convince you that WPC Jeaves was wrong ?

If WPC Jeaves was right then it does not mean that Jeremy is guilty or innocent - but it would mean that a third party other than Jeremy was involved in the murders ...

[orb9999]

Great point Sherlock. I have often wondered how cast iron his alibi was. He was a bit of a jack the lad and a bit of a bullshitter by all accounts but that doesn't mean he could not have committed the crimes. The only thing against this scenario is that if he was still in the house when JB and the police arrived how did he get out without being seen? Did he hide in the loft? Surely the police would have looked in there but how well did they check it. Was he the famous hunch-backed man seen walking away? Was this the reason that JB was selling loads of items in order to pay him off? So who was the lady who gave him this alibi?

[Adam]

Hello Adam - don't forget Julie Mugford from your list - she also said a third party committed the massacre ...

The Yorkshire Ripper was arrested and released to kill more victims - because he had an "unshakeable" alibi - he isn't the only UK serial killer that this has happened to either - does anyone anywhere actually know what Malcoms "unshakeable alibi" actually was ?

If his alibi was ever disproved then every thing in this case would make perfect sense to me - I would have no more unanswered questions ...

WPC Jeaves almost certainly saw a rifle in the window that was not there later -( add that to the possible  "movement" spotted in another window ) - in my mind there was someone else in the farm alive when Jeremy was outside - was it Malcolm ?

Every body makes mistakes - including plenty of Police Officers - but when a firearms INSTRUCTOR says she thought she saw a gun in a window then you can bet your life that she thought she saw a gun in that window and that she almost certainly actually did see a gun in that window ...
Firearms INSTRUCTORS just don't make mistakes like that easily ...
There is a very strong possibility indeed that she was correct ...

Ask yourself this one question Adam :

What specific reasons absolutely convince you that WPC Jeaves was wrong ?

If WPC Jeaves was right then it does not mean that Jeremy is guilty or innocent - but it would mean that a third party other than Jeremy was involved in the murders ...

Yes, weeks after the massacre Bamber did say Nevill might have said 'she' rather than 'Sheila'. As well as saying Crispy could have fired the second shot.

This was when the police said Sheila couldn't have shot herself twice.

Not sure why Nevill would ring Bamber if the killer was an unknown person. I thought Nevill rang Bamber because Bamber knew Sheila. Although so did June.

Bamber told the police he didn't like Sheila & she didn't like him. So big mistake by Nevill.

Nugs has suggested Bamber couldn't have cycled to WHF as he could have got lost, which supports his theory someone hid in the loft. Although he won't say who.

Anyway, the police checked the loft.

[maggie]

Your post is so far from actual reality that I had to log in after a few months break to correct you !
You said "We are supposed to have one of the best legal systems in the world" - how naïve are you ?
We have one of the worst legal systems in the entire world.
Miscarriages of justice happen hundreds of times a day in this country.
That includes civil as well as criminal miscarriages.
We live in a system corrupt from the absolute top down.
If Ted Heath was still alive he would be interviewed under caution for killing children.
Thatcher was extremely close friends with Jimmy  Saville.
Do you think our more recent leaders were allowed into power without our rulers already having holds on them ?
We live in an extremely corrupt society.
Actually go to any Court in this country and open your eyes.
You will see after a short time that I am 100% correct - we have one of the worst Court systems on the entire planet.
There is an illusion of justice in this country - but it is just that - an illusion.
Go to a few Court houses before answering this with opinions you have been given by our tightly controlled media.
You probably think we have a free media in this country ?
We absolutely do not.
Try to start an independent newspaper in this country and see what they do to you.
There is no free press in England - they are too scared of it to allow it.
If their secrets got out they would be finished in minutes.
I know 100% what I am talking about through huge life long experience of these things.
And remember when you come to realise how shockingly appalling our current Court system is then just remember it was a lot worse in 1985.

I said SUPPOSED I did not say we HAD.  Don't you understand the difference?  In fact your reply to my post makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
I am far from naïve and well aware there is as much corruption in our Establishment as in any other and don't need a lecture from you thanks very much.
Anyway your theory is ridiculous and I don't think even you believe it.

[Kaldin]

Hello Adam - don't forget Julie Mugford from your list - she also said a third party committed the massacre ...

The Yorkshire Ripper was arrested and released to kill more victims - because he had an "unshakeable" alibi - he isn't the only UK serial killer that this has happened to either - does anyone anywhere actually know what Malcoms "unshakeable alibi" actually was ?

If his alibi was ever disproved then every thing in this case would make perfect sense to me - I would have no more unanswered questions ...

WPC Jeaves almost certainly saw a rifle in the window that was not there later -( add that to the possible  "movement" spotted in another window ) - in my mind there was someone else in the farm alive when Jeremy was outside - was it Malcolm ?

Every body makes mistakes - including plenty of Police Officers - but when a firearms INSTRUCTOR says she thought she saw a gun in a window then you can bet your life that she thought she saw a gun in that window and that she almost certainly actually did see a gun in that window ...
Firearms INSTRUCTORS just don't make mistakes like that easily ...
There is a very strong possibility indeed that she was correct ...

Ask yourself this one question Adam :

What specific reasons absolutely convince you that WPC Jeaves was wrong ?

If WPC Jeaves was right then it does not mean that Jeremy is guilty or innocent - but it would mean that a third party other than Jeremy was involved in the murders ...

Was Peter Sutcliffe arrested and then released? I understand that he was questioned along with others but that's all. He was arrested eventually but not released.

I'd be interested in MM's alibi too - we don't hear much about that.

[lookout]

I think a third party was mentioned because JM didn't want to implicate Jeremy. It usually happens that way when one looks to someone else to blame.
If Jeremy had had relatives on his side JM would have sided with them instead of the others. It's how it goes.

[orb9999]

Kaldin, Peter Sutcliffe was interviewed many times by various police departments but was never arrested for any of the murders and then released. When he was finally caught he was taken into custody due to false number plates on his car. How they never arrested him prior to this has always amazed me. The photofit pictures done by people who survived were so much like him it was unbelievable that he was never arrested, they were so much like him.

[Kaldin]

Kaldin, Peter Sutcliffe was interviewed many times by various police departments but was never arrested for any of the murders and then released. When he was finally caught he was taken into custody due to false number plates on his car. How they never arrested him prior to this has always amazed me. The photofit pictures done by people who survived were so much like him it was unbelievable that he was never arrested, they were so much like him.

Exactly, he was never arrested and then released.

[sherlock]

Kaldin, Peter Sutcliffe was interviewed many times by various police departments but was never arrested for any of the murders and then released. When he was finally caught he was taken into custody due to false number plates on his car. How they never arrested him prior to this has always amazed me. The photofit pictures done by people who survived were so much like him it was unbelievable that he was never arrested, they were so much like him.

You are correct - my wording could have been better.
He was not arrested but was interviewed as a suspect 9 times.
If he had refused to be interviewed then they would have arrested him.
He had no choice but to take part in the interviews - he was a strong suspect.
They ruled him out initially because of his false alibi.

Did you know Jimmy Saville was also a suspect in the Ripper case ?
They made a cast of his teeth to match against a victim.
Many people say he was friends with the Ripper before he was caught.
He certainly became friends with him after in Broadmoor.
One victim was found yards from Savilles house.
Allegedly Saville was supplying children to Ted Heath to murder on his yacht.
This is one reason why Saville was above the law and could not be arrested.
Maybe this protection extended to his friend the Ripper ?
Maybe they were not able to cover up the number plate incident ?
Saville was given the keys to Broadmoor and certainly looked after his friend the Ripper in there ...

[sherlock]

I said SUPPOSED I did not say we HAD.  Don't you understand the difference?  In fact your reply to my post makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
I am far from naïve and well aware there is as much corruption in our Establishment as in any other and don't need a lecture from you thanks very much.
Anyway your theory is ridiculous and I don't think even you believe it.

I do apologise Maggie - it shows how confusing words can be.
You are very obviously not naïve and you are not under any illusions about our Establishment.
Many rulers in history use the tactic of having holds on every one below them in the hierarchy.
Hitler did this but he is far from the only one in history to do so.
Did you see what happened in Barcelona recently ?
The states violent reaction was not because they want to form an independent nation.
It was because they want to form a Republic ie without the Royal family in charge.

The first 10 times I went to Spain Hitlers mate and fellow dictator Franco was still in charge.
I take nothing for granted.
If you think you can start an independent newspaper in this country then you would be surprised at what would happen to you in my honest opinion.
I genuinely believe it would be a lot more possible in Russia or Zimbabwe for example.
This honest view is based on my very extensive experience in this country.

[Caroline]

Your post is so far from actual reality that I had to log in after a few months break to correct you !
You said "We are supposed to have one of the best legal systems in the world" - how naïve are you ?
We have one of the worst legal systems in the entire world.
Miscarriages of justice happen hundreds of times a day in this country.
That includes civil as well as criminal miscarriages.
We live in a system corrupt from the absolute top down.
If Ted Heath was still alive he would be interviewed under caution for killing children.
Thatcher was extremely close friends with Jimmy  Saville.
Do you think our more recent leaders were allowed into power without our rulers already having holds on them ?
We live in an extremely corrupt society.
Actually go to any Court in this country and open your eyes.
You will see after a short time that I am 100% correct - we have one of the worst Court systems on the entire planet.
There is an illusion of justice in this country - but it is just that - an illusion.
Go to a few Court houses before answering this with opinions you have been given by our tightly controlled media.
You probably think we have a free media in this country ?
We absolutely do not.
Try to start an independent newspaper in this country and see what they do to you.
There is no free press in England - they are too scared of it to allow it.
If their secrets got out they would be finished in minutes.
I know 100% what I am talking about through huge life long experience of these things.
And remember when you come to realise how shockingly appalling our current Court system is then just remember it was a lot worse in 1985.

Thatcher was close to Jimmy Saville so that means she knew he was a perv? I doubt he introduced himself in a manner that relieved himself (literally or not). Do you imagine she was setting him up with rent boys? Bloody hell, youre the one who sounds naive and frankly a bi cranky! Ted Heath murdered children? 

I guess you believe this load of old crap? http://yournewswire.com/ted-heath-exposed-as-a-paedophile-murderer-and-satanist-video/

FFS!