Police V family

[Steve_uk]

 Yes of course that will be it . Not the fact that it was a crime that would have been very difficult to predict and plan every aspect . And then cover up so successfully .

He expected them all to be in bed, as did David Bain. His parents were elderly, the twins were sitting ducks. The key was Sheila and her mental and physical state, which Jeremy had witnessed from the party in Kilburn on the Saturday night.

[Jan]

He expected them all to be in bed, as did David Bain. His parents were elderly, the twins were sitting ducks. The key was Sheila and her mental and physical state, which Jeremy had witnessed from the party in Kilburn on the Saturday night.

Other witnesses gave different opinions about her mental and physical state in the days before so it seems it was not quite as black and white as you make out.

[Jane]

Other witnesses gave different opinions about her mental and physical state in the days before so it seems it was not quite as black and white as you make out.

I guess her mental state comes down to a consensus of what the majority say of it. Her doctors had no idea. They weren't there. It comes down to what those who were with her/knew her/saw her said. It sounds as if more said she appeared to be withdrawn/odd/unwashed/etc than those who said she appeared 'normal'...............whatever it is they mean by that.

[Steve_uk]

Other witnesses gave different opinions about her mental and physical state in the days before so it seems it was not quite as black and white as you make out.

They didn't really though Jan. Most locals didn't know Sheila well anyway. Painter Michael Horsnell in the afternoon described her as a "zombie" at Vaulty Manor, as did Pamela during that final conversation at 10:00pm.

[Jan]

So you are saying Jeremy saw her in a zombie state and thought that would help with his plan ?

[Adam]

He expected them all to be in bed, as did David Bain. His parents were elderly, the twins were sitting ducks. The key was Sheila and her mental and physical state, which Jeremy had witnessed from the party in Kilburn on the Saturday night.

Bamber saw Sheila just before the massacre. Saying in his WS she didn't engage at all & 'just appeared vacant'.

[Steve_uk]

So you are saying Jeremy saw her in a zombie state and thought that would help with his plan ?

Absolutely. It's backed up by Colin, who said his ex-wife didn't speak a word on the drive down to White House Farm. In that state is it any wonder she had no idea in the few seconds it took for him to wake his sister from her slumber and lead her across the landing to her demise?

[Jan]

Absolutely. It's backed up by Colin, who said his ex-wife didn't speak a word on the drive down to White House Farm. In that state is it any wonder she had no idea in the few seconds it took for him to wake his sister from her slumber and lead her across the landing to her demise?

Maybe she was angry with Colin?

So if she was that bad why leave her with the children ?

It was in one of the last books , which I am sure you have read , about different witnesses at the party and the preceding days giving different accounts of her behaviour.

Or perhaps she was heading for an episode ? Perhaps just depressed rather than zombie like ?

To say it is why Jeremy chose that day is no different to saying that is why she could have committed the murders.

[Steve_uk]

Maybe she was angry with Colin?

So if she was that bad why leave her with the children ?

It was in one of the last books , which I am sure you have read , about different witnesses at the party and the preceding days giving different accounts of her behaviour.

Or perhaps she was heading for an episode ? Perhaps just depressed rather than zombie like ?

To say it is why Jeremy chose that day is no different to saying that is why she could have committed the murders.

There weren't really different accounts of her behaviour. Didn't a nurse notice her hiding behind dark glasses, nervously smoking, averting eye contact, and guessed she was suffering from schizophrenia?

I think you could do with Lookout's help at this point, but alas she is absent. I do hope she is on holiday somewhere convivial and not fallen prey to a Brian Blackwell copycat killer..

[Jane]

Maybe she was angry with Colin?

So if she was that bad why leave her with the children ?

It was in one of the last books , which I am sure you have read , about different witnesses at the party and the preceding days giving different accounts of her behaviour.

Or perhaps she was heading for an episode ? Perhaps just depressed rather than zombie like ?

To say it is why Jeremy chose that day is no different to saying that is why she could have committed the murders.

Jan, it sounds as if you want definitive answers to everything. Supposing she was angry with Colin. It's hypothetical. We can't have convicted killers walking free on hypotheticals. If she was so bad why leave her with the children? The children were visiting their grandparents. What do you think he was going to say? Sheila hasn't spoken for the whole journey so I'm taking the children back? One has to think that Colin had possibly seen her heading for an episode, although it appears she may only have experienced the two we know of, but he doesn't make any comment suggesting this. I've always thought she was deeply depressed...................but perhaps she was just sulking?

[JackieD]

So walking on carpet on socks on top of blood spots won't squash them or distort? And no blood will be picked  up on the stockinged feet . Then I guess he took them off , before climbing out of the window.

He must be a lot brighter than I thought.

It's amazing how all these theories arise when my answer about the prints has not even been answered ?

 

[JackieD]

You've got it sorted and planned from your own perspective AND with the benefit of hindsight, PLUS you're determined that Jeremy is innocent so you can't have him doing anything which might suggest otherwise. I think Jeremy was probably steps ahead of you. He'd worked out the best way for him to do it.

She's running rings around you Jane
You either need to step up or give up

[Steve_uk]

Jan, it sounds as if you want definitive answers to everything. Supposing she was angry with Colin. It's hypothetical. We can't have convicted killers walking free on hypotheticals. If she was so bad why leave her with the children? The children were visiting their grandparents. What do you think he was going to say? Sheila hasn't spoken for the whole journey so I'm taking the children back? One has to think that Colin had possibly seen her heading for an episode, although it appears she may only have experienced the two we know of, but he doesn't make any comment suggesting this. I've always thought she was deeply depressed...................but perhaps she was just sulking?

I'm just reading Chapter 19 from Carol Ann Lee again and it' s all I can do to face it: it's almost unbearable. I'm trying to find something for the Defence to latch onto, but all I can find is June being in a different mood than the happy one she was in before she went into Vaulty Manor. Maybe it was something Pamela or her mother said, or was Sheila the cause for concern? House painter Michael Horsnell noticed Sheila again on exit and commented:

"Sheila definitely did not look normal..she was walking stiffly like a zombie from a horror movie."

Now I'm no doctor, but surely even if all her medication is out of her system she cannot transform in such a short period of time from such a helpless, static individual to one that overpowers Nevill along with all the other details including reloading a rifle attributed to her.

[Steve_uk]

She's running rings around you Jane
You either need to step up or give up

No the Defence is in denial or you are not cognizant of all the facts leading up to the tragedy.

[JackieD]

Maybe she was angry with Colin?

So if she was that bad why leave her with the children ?

It was in one of the last books , which I am sure you have read , about different witnesses at the party and the preceding days giving different accounts of her behaviour.

Or perhaps she was heading for an episode ? Perhaps just depressed rather than zombie like ?

To say it is why Jeremy chose that day is no different to saying that is why she could have committed the murders.

Thank you Jan