Reason to believe cops shot Sheila, and how her blood ended up inside Silencer!

[guest2181]

I'd say that was Colin.

Yes, indeed. 

[JackiePreece]

Just a reminder to all forum members, this is a place to discuss miscarriages of justice

[mike tesko]

Mindset of the occupants of CA07 who arrived at the scene by 3.48am, mindset of Jeremy who arrived there some three or four minutes later (by 3.52am), mindset of PS Adams and the first group of 10 firearm officers at the scene by 5am, mindset of Sheila roaming around inside the farmhouse, mindset of PI Montgomery and his group of TFG arriving at the scene by 7am, mindset of WPC Jeapes and PC Brown upon and after sighting of rifle at first floor box room window, mindset of the six man raid team that set off intending to enter the farmhouse and bring the ongoing seige to an end, mindset of senior officers in the forward control point upon learning about two bodies in kitchen upon entry by 7.35am, mindset of same senior officers at the scene and elsewhere upon the being confirmed that a further three bodies had been found upstairs, making five dead in total by 8.10am, mindset of DCI 'Terry' Gibbons, DCI 'George' Harris, and PI 'Ivor' Montgomery, as they left the forward control point at 8.10am intent on entering the farmhouse, only to discover there was only one body in the kitchen by the time they got there, mindset of the raid team inside the farmhouse upon hearing that one of the two bodies present in kitchen from as early as 7.35am, was no longer there after 8.10am, and could be anywhere inside the premises, increasing the tension in the mindset of police inside, outside, and elsewhere, all believing that the missing female was none other than Sheila Caffell, with the possibility that she might rearm herself with a loaded gun and try to shoot dead police, mindset of ACC 'Peter' Simpson after he spoke to 'George' Harris regarding how the police operation had just gone pearshaped, etc, etc, etc...

Nothing that Jeremy could have said, or did say to police before any of these events unfolded, which caused these individual officers to have a mindset arising out for events as they were unfolding without Jeremy's knowlege, or any input from him! For example, Jeremy couldn't have known that Sheila would place the rifle at the first floor box room window, he didn't know that WPC Jeapes and PC Brown would both independent of one another report seeing the said rifle at that window, Jeremy didn't influence where police originally reported finding the bodies of the five victims, two downstairs, three bodies upstairs, Jeremy had no input in the disappearence of a female body from the kitchen which reappeared on the bed in the main bedroom after 8.10am, Jeremy didn't have any input regarding when Gibbons, Harris and Montgomery entered the kitchen only to discover the body of Neville Bamber there, and a female who was reportedly dead there around d half an hour earlier, was no longer present in the kitchen! Where had the body of that missing female disappeared to? Well, just minutes before Gibbons, Harris and Montgomery entered the kitchen a message had come back from inside the farmhouse that three bodies had been found upstairs, the time being 8.10am! So by that stage, Sheila was not upstairs, but these three copateers soon discovered that there was only one dead body downstairs in the kitchen, that being the body of Neville Bamber! The time was 8.15am...

Where exactly was Sheila concealing herself, during those critical 5 minutes between 8.10am and 8.15am, since as far as the body count downstairs and upstairs, there appeared to be a deficit of one female body downstairs in the kitchen, and upstairs in the main bedroom?

[Roch]

JB is a convicted multiple murder, that is simply a fact.

I'm sure NGB could provide you with an explanation of who he had in mind whilst referring to 'Living victims' in the 'Forum Rules'.

I accept he is a convicted multiple murderer.  I do not accept that he is a multiple murderer.

Jeremy Bamber was convicted after evidence that Sheila had carried out the killings was concealed.  The police officer who oversaw the concealment was appointed to appease the relatives. 

Colin Caffell is arguably the biggest living victim - he is a victim of Sheila Caffell (without knowing it). His chance to understand the truth in these matters, was stolen from him, when a certain officer was appointed to appease the relatives. 

Jeremy Bamber is the next biggest victim.  He lost his chance of living nearly all of his adult life a free man and of having his own family.  He was sent to prison forever, with the label of child killer hanging around his neck - because of a certain police officer appointed to appease the relatives.

The relatives have no moral high ground here.

If ngb feels I have breached forum etiquette then I would of course take his advice and views in to consideration.

[lookout]

Very well said.

[Jane]

I accept he is a convicted multiple murderer.  I do not accept that he is a multiple murderer.

Jeremy Bamber was convicted after evidence that Sheila had carried out the killings was concealed.  The police officer who oversaw the concealment was appointed to appease the relatives. 

Colin Caffell is arguably the biggest living victim - he is a victim of Sheila Caffell (without knowing it). His chance to understand the truth in these matters, was stolen from him, when a certain officer was appointed to appease the relatives. 

Jeremy Bamber is the next biggest victim.  He lost his chance of living nearly all of his adult life a free man and of having his own family.  He was sent to prison forever, with the label of child killer hanging around his neck - because of a certain police officer appointed to appease the relatives.

The relatives have no moral high ground here.

If ngb feels I have breached forum etiquette then I would of course take his advice and views in to consideration.

Are you alluding to "A" police officer in general or "THE" police officer in particular? Can you name the police officer concerned.

[mike tesko]

Mindset of the occupants of CA07 who arrived at the scene by 3.48am, mindset of Jeremy who arrived there some three or four minutes later (by 3.52am), mindset of PS Adams and the first group of 10 firearm officers at the scene by 5am, mindset of Sheila roaming around inside the farmhouse, mindset of PI Montgomery and his group of TFG arriving at the scene by 7am, mindset of WPC Jeapes and PC Brown upon and after sighting of rifle at first floor box room window, mindset of the six man raid team that set off intending to enter the farmhouse and bring the ongoing seige to an end, mindset of senior officers in the forward control point upon learning about two bodies in kitchen upon entry by 7.35am, mindset of same senior officers at the scene and elsewhere upon the being confirmed that a further three bodies had been found upstairs, making five dead in total by 8.10am, mindset of DCI 'Terry' Gibbons, DCI 'George' Harris, and PI 'Ivor' Montgomery, as they left the forward control point at 8.10am intent on entering the farmhouse, only to discover there was only one body in the kitchen by the time they got there, mindset of the raid team inside the farmhouse upon hearing that one of the two bodies present in kitchen from as early as 7.35am, was no longer there after 8.10am, and could be anywhere inside the premises, increasing the tension in the mindset of police inside, outside, and elsewhere, all believing that the missing female was none other than Sheila Caffell, with the possibility that she might rearm herself with a loaded gun and try to shoot dead police, mindset of ACC 'Peter' Simpson after he spoke to 'George' Harris regarding how the police operation had just gone pearshaped, etc, etc, etc...

Nothing that Jeremy could have said, or did say to police before any of these events unfolded, which caused these individual officers to have a mindset arising out for events as they were unfolding without Jeremy's knowlege, or any input from him! For example, Jeremy couldn't have known that Sheila would place the rifle at the first floor box room window, he didn't know that WPC Jeapes and PC Brown would both independent of one another report seeing the said rifle at that window, Jeremy didn't influence where police originally reported finding the bodies of the five victims, two downstairs, three bodies upstairs, Jeremy had no input in the disappearence of a female body from the kitchen which reappeared on the bed in the main bedroom after 8.10am, Jeremy didn't have any input regarding when Gibbons, Harris and Montgomery entered the kitchen only to discover the body of Neville Bamber there, and a female who was reportedly dead there around d half an hour earlier, was no longer present in the kitchen! Where had the body of that missing female disappeared to? Well, just minutes before Gibbons, Harris and Montgomery entered the kitchen a message had come back from inside the farmhouse that three bodies had been found upstairs, the time being 8.10am! So by that stage, Sheila was not upstairs, but these three copateers soon discovered that there was only one dead body downstairs in the kitchen, that being the body of Neville Bamber! The time was 8.15am...

Where exactly was Sheila concealing herself, during those critical 5 minutes between 8.10am and 8.15am, since as far as the body count downstairs and upstairs, there appeared to be a deficit of one female body downstairs in the kitchen, and upstairs in the main bedroom?

Where two bodies downstairs in the kitchen had become one body, and three bodies upstairs had become transformed into four bodies!

[guest2181]

I accept he is a convicted multiple murderer.  I do not accept that he is a multiple murderer.

Jeremy Bamber was convicted after evidence that Sheila had carried out the killings was concealed.  The police officer who oversaw the concealment was appointed to appease the relatives. 

Colin Caffell is arguably the biggest living victim - he is a victim of Sheila Caffell (without knowing it). His chance to understand the truth in these matters, was stolen from him, when a certain officer was appointed to appease the relatives. 

Jeremy Bamber is the next biggest victim.  He lost his chance of living nearly all of his adult life a free man and of having his own family.  He was sent to prison forever, with the label of child killer hanging around his neck - because of a certain police officer appointed to appease the relatives.

The relatives have no moral high ground here.

If ngb feels I have breached forum etiquette then I would of course take his advice and views in to consideration.

Roch, whether you accept JB as a convicted multiple murderer or not, is immaterial. It is simply a fact in Law that he is. If a person refers to JB as a murderer, then they are quite correct to do so.

The relatives (or any number of other people), who you cannot show with evidence to have acted unlawfully, should not be the recipient of any such unsubstantiated and unnecessary accusations.

I think the above is reasonable to accept.

Having said that, I'm not particularly bothered by the unreasonable postings, such rhetoric is common place on the forum and is hardly a new development.

[guest2181]

Roch, whether you accept JB as a convicted multiple murderer or not, is immaterial. It is simply a fact in Law that he is. If a person refers to JB as a murderer, then they are quite correct to do so.

The relatives (or any number of other people), who you cannot show with evidence to have acted unlawfully, should not be the recipient of any such unsubstantiated and unnecessary accusations.

I think the above is reasonable to accept.

Having said that, I'm not particularly bothered by the unreasonable postings, such rhetoric is common place on the forum and is hardly a new development.

I think your reaction (Roch) when you thought you were being accused of lying, provides an effective example of your position when it comes to unsubstantiated accusations.

[buddy]

Roch, whether you accept JB as a convicted multiple murderer or not, is immaterial. It is simply a fact in Law that he is. If a person refers to JB as a murderer, then they are quite correct to do so.

The relatives (or any number of other people), who you cannot show with evidence to have acted unlawfully, should not be the recipient of any such unsubstantiated and unnecessary accusations.

I think the above is reasonable to accept.

Having said that, I'm not particularly bothered by the unreasonable postings, such rhetoric is common place on the forum and is hardly a new development.

There are many people who have been convicted of murder by a unanimous jury decision, who were later found not guilty. JB was a majority decision, it is not unreasonable for some to have doubts.

[mike tesko]

Police at the scene, outside the farmhouse, police inside the farmhouse, police back in Chelmsford police station control room and it's incident room, and ACC 'Peter' Simpson all knew the full circumstances of how that part of the firearm operation to enter the premises and bring the seige to a conclusion had somehow gone dramatically wrong! Now, by 8.15am, three unarmed police officers found themselves trapped in the kitchen where previously two dead bodies had been reportedly accounted for...

[guest2181]

There are many people who have been convicted of murder by a unanimous jury decision, who were later found not guilty. JB was a majority decision, it is not unreasonable for some to have doubts.

Each persons views on the guilt or innocence of JB are entirely their own. Nobody has suggested otherwise.

[mike tesko]

Police at the scene, outside the farmhouse, police inside the farmhouse, police back in Chelmsford police station control room and it's incident room, and ACC 'Peter' Simpson all knew the full circumstances of how that part of the firearm operation to enter the premises and bring the seige to a conclusion had somehow gone dramatically wrong! Now, by 8.15am, three unarmed police officers found themselves trapped in the kitchen where previously two dead bodies had been reportedly accounted for...

Where, was the female body from the kitchen?

[mike tesko]

Where, was the female body from the kitchen?

By 8.10am Sheila's body was not upstairs by that stage, otherwise the TFG would have reported four bodies found upstairs, not three at that point..

[buddy]

Each persons views on the guilt or innocence of JB are entirely their own. Nobody has suggested otherwise.

That's not what I was referring to.