Author Topic: DNA Testing In the 80's  (Read 12654 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #135 on: April 06, 2017, 08:07:AM »
A typical example of someone constantly trying to divert the topic of the thread


 I suspect, now, as lending added weight to the innocent side by adding 'something' mysterious and secret -there was a suggestion, at one moment, that Jeremy's biological surname was really Windsor, although a loyal employee had been coerced into allowing his name to be put on the birth certificate!!!! ergo, SB had been tailing him (and his family by adoption) sinc

Absolutely barking !!!

I totally agree. I'm only passing on some of the c**p that's been put out there. DON'T shoot the messenger.

guest7363

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #136 on: April 06, 2017, 09:19:AM »
For me Caroline it's not a question of wether or not jb wanted those items. its more a case of the police destroying stuff when they clearly shouldn't of. For me it smacks of something to hide. They shouldn't of done it. What the ft should be doing is getting his legal team to prosecute for contempt of court. I don't know if he's innocent or guilty but by doing this they may have stopped anyone from finding out the truth either way.
Hi Notsure, seems strange that they didn't destroy the silencer, I would have thought if they were trying to hide something, this piece of evidence (which supporters suggest was fabricated) would have gone as well, I think if they are dealing with a murder that has been unsolved they would keep items for DNA, if, and in Bamber's case the murder was solved and passed the scrutiny of appeals, there probably is a case or time limit for retention? Nice to chat to you again.

Offline Adam

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #137 on: April 06, 2017, 09:24:AM »
As said, 1996 was 10 years after the conviction. So either an appropriate time or police protocol to dispose of several items that were no longer considered to be worth keeping.

The last appeal was 7 years ago and the next one was 6 years away. There was no internet campaign & DNA was not established. Bamber's case was a dead duck.

Important items at trial like the silencer were kept & tested. Supporters optimistically claiming contamination when June's DNA was found in it.

I suspect Bamber found out years later that items were disposed of in 1996 & has since optimistically tried to claim the police were scared DNA testing would benefit him. Once again for properganda purposes. Although no one has said what these items could be & only the police seem to know what was disposed.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 09:35:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #138 on: April 06, 2017, 09:51:AM »
Hi Notsure, seems strange that they didn't destroy the silencer, I would have thought if they were trying to hide something, this piece of evidence (which supporters suggest was fabricated) would have gone as well, I think if they are dealing with a murder that has been unsolved they would keep items for DNA, if, and in Bamber's case the murder was solved and passed the scrutiny of appeals, there probably is a case or time limit for retention? Nice to chat to you again.





They had to hang on to this as their " proof " of his conviction,it's all they had. What else ?

Offline susan

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #139 on: April 06, 2017, 10:59:AM »




They had to hang on to this as their " proof " of his conviction,it's all they had. What else ?

Lookout I was going to say the very same thing to justice who I am pleased to see posting again :)

Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #140 on: April 06, 2017, 11:04:AM »
For me Caroline it's not a question of wether or not jb wanted those items. its more a case of the police destroying stuff when they clearly shouldn't of. For me it smacks of something to hide. They shouldn't of done it. What the ft should be doing is getting his legal team to prosecute for contempt of court. I don't know if he's innocent or guilty but by doing this they may have stopped anyone from finding out the truth either way.

OK, how do you know they acted illegally? Are you willing to always accept what the CT say? They are asking for logs that prove Nevill called the police and there is no evidence that he did. I don't get this at all.
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Offline lookout

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #141 on: April 06, 2017, 11:05:AM »
Lookout I was going to say the very same thing to justice who I am pleased to see posting again :)





Great minds you see,Susan. ;D

Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #142 on: April 06, 2017, 11:07:AM »
Hi Notsure, seems strange that they didn't destroy the silencer, I would have thought if they were trying to hide something, this piece of evidence (which supporters suggest was fabricated) would have gone as well, I think if they are dealing with a murder that has been unsolved they would keep items for DNA, if, and in Bamber's case the murder was solved and passed the scrutiny of appeals, there probably is a case or time limit for retention? Nice to chat to you again.

I agree Justice and they certainly would have made sure no one knew SB were involved if there was ssomething sinister. Funy how Jeremy never thought about DNA until after the items were destroyed!
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Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #143 on: April 06, 2017, 11:08:AM »




They had to hang on to this as their " proof " of his conviction,it's all they had. What else ?

They didn't need proof that he'd been convicted -  he was convicted!
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Offline lookout

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #144 on: April 06, 2017, 11:23:AM »
They didn't need proof that he'd been convicted -  he was convicted!





For " murdering " 5 people ?? Of course they'd need proof !! And not just hearsay or a hate campaign.

Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #145 on: April 06, 2017, 11:26:AM »




For " murdering " 5 people ?? Of course they'd need proof !! And not just hearsay or a hate campaign.

He was already convicted in 1996! ::)
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Offline lookout

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #146 on: April 06, 2017, 11:31:AM »
He was already convicted in 1996! ::)





So he was convicted for the " give a dog a bad name " syndrome-----------3 strikes and it's prison.Whether you've committed the crime or not,it's on your record as being an " offender " ??
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 11:34:AM by lookout »

Offline notsure

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #147 on: April 06, 2017, 01:26:PM »
OK, how do you know they acted illegally? Are you willing to always accept what the CT say? They are asking for logs that prove Nevill called the police and there is no evidence that he did. I don't get this at all.

Caroline, I cannot be certain they acted illegally but my money goes on the campaiin team being truthful l. I just cannot see how they could be taken seriously by solicitors etc if what  they did and said was untruthful and to b honest I would rather believe who they say than some of the bull posted on here. ( not that I think you post bull lol)

it seems they back up there infoall the time ie holmes references are available, .

It all the handwritten statements and pocketbooks from the original investigation where I believe the truth lies or at least a lot of it. And if that turns out to prove his guilt then so be it.

They did ask for disclosureof all DNA evidence in 1994 which went o on to be destroyed despite the order for it to be disclosed. Now in my eyes that answers our questions. It shouldn't have been destroyed but it was. Now what is the system that allows this to happen. They are asking for them to tell them what happened aren't they.

All pre trial evidence and the first investigation information is what will tell us the truth. Isn't that what we all want.

So in a nutshell I believe the  CT because they are under if they lie and on that basis I can't see how anyone can argue for what they are asking for  .




Offline gringo

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #148 on: April 06, 2017, 03:05:PM »
   It seems that there are a few on here who are just denying reality. The idea seems to have taken hold that it is somehow routine to destroy evidence after 10 years. This is stated without any supporting evidence and much to contradict this ridiculous evidence free assumption.
    Three examples which make a mockery of this claim and there are many more.
    The Birmingham 6, Guildford 4 and Maguire 7 all had their convictions overturned after 16, 16 and 15 years respectively. The evidence was not  routinely destroyed after 10 years with the connivance of Special Branch. I can find no example of this happening. The Maguire 7, as a matter of fact had all completed their sentences and had already been released before their conviction was overturned and still the evidence hadn't been destroyed.
    Interestingly enough there is a common thread between these overturned convictions and the allegations made by JB and his representatives.
    All of the above convictions were overturned when it became clear that police had fabricated evidence and tampered with and edited statements(sound familiar). This editing and tampering with statements was discovered with the advent of a technique known as ESDA testing.
    In a nutshell ESDA (electrostatic document analysis) examines pen indentations on succeeding pages to establish whether they have been written at one sitting or added to and edited later.
    In all of the cases ESDA testing on documents proved that police had lied and fabricated throughout.
    JB's defence team have been asking for the original documents since 1994, when they went to court to obtain, amongst other items, all original handwritten statements, police notebooks and the original handwritten logs in order to carry out ESDA testing.
    Caroline misrepresents these requests by claiming that JB's team are asking for the log of Neville's call which according to her doesn't exist and therefore the request is "silly".
    What are being requested are the original handwritten logs. Whether you believe a call from Neville exists or not is immaterial to this request. The original handwritten call logs exist whether or not Neville called police.
     The excuse given by EP was that the original logs "couldn't be located". One does not need to be a cynic to treat this excuse from EP as self serving and obstructive. Quite why they would be so obstructive about this we can only guess, but it is apparent that EP do not want ESDA testing to take place.
      Without being able to locate the 1994 order myself, it is referred to by so many interested parties that it is preposterous to deny it's existence.
     Even if you really believe that the CT have forged EP notes referring to the order including, helpfully, the date of the court order referring to an allegedly mythical court case (I know it's too idiotic to even take seriously but this is what some claim to believe) you still have more obstacles to overcome.
     We also are required to believe that any number of legal professionals, respected campaigners and journalists such as Eric Allison, Peter Tatchell, Andrew Hunter et al have all been either duped or are lying.
     Peter Tatchell, in his letter posted earlier by notsure, actually gives the dates of the ignored court orders and refers specifically to requests for DNA exhibits for testing which EP refused hence the 1994 judicial review and court order to disclose. Here we are left with the choice of taking the words of informed, intelligent professionals with reputations for honesty, who have had access to all documents and correspondence on the one hand or Adam, Caroline and Jane on the other.
     Essex Police, so some would have us believe are simply, "keeping a dignified silence" rather than denying the existence of court orders and withheld evidence. I would say that you couldn't make this shit up but self evidently you can because this is the kind of drivel that that has been posted as a substitute for actual reasoned debate.
     Despite the efforts of some to disrupt the debate about withheld evidence and defiance of court orders it is perfectly clear that EP are guilty of all of the above. Read Peter Tatchell's letter where he lists the specific dates and courts so it is clear when and where the orders were made. Also listed is the evidence still required from EP.
     Denying the truth of these claims in the face of such overwhelming evidence reveals an agenda other than truth seeking.     
     

Offline David1819

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #149 on: April 06, 2017, 03:11:PM »
Hi Notsure, seems strange that they didn't destroy the silencer, I would have thought if they were trying to hide something, this piece of evidence (which supporters suggest was fabricated) would have gone as well, I think if they are dealing with a murder that has been unsolved they would keep items for DNA, if, and in Bamber's case the murder was solved and passed the scrutiny of appeals, there probably is a case or time limit for retention? Nice to chat to you again.

This should partially clarify the issue your bring up. What's strange now is the fact the silencer never appeared in the Museum!  :-\