Author Topic: DNA Testing In the 80's  (Read 12668 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2017, 12:08:PM »
No one knew about the destroyed files until AFTER they were destroyed? So what did they know to ask for? Did SB make a list for everyone to find?  ::)





Did anyone know what was on/in them, is more to the point ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2017, 12:15:PM »




Did anyone know what was on/in them, is more to the point ?

If no one knew about them, they wouldn't know what was in them. Here we go again, "docs were destroyed but we don't know what they are"  ;D. It is well documented that the items were articles taken from WHF which had blood evidence on them, NOT files!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 12:23:PM by Caroline »
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Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2017, 12:29:PM »
   DNA testing was new at this time as we all know, notsure. Whether DNA testing had been requested is moot, EP defied a court order and given the advances in DNA profiling, the ongoing appeals and court order it is beyond ridiculous to claim that SB "may have" routinely destroyed evidence as part of their remit.
     Neither JB nor his legal team could have requested DNA testing for most of the preceding 8 years because it didn't exist for most of them. When DNA profiling became possible EP called in Special Branch to oversee the destruction.
     The pretence that this was all somehow normal procedure is desperate stuff.
     What is clear is whether or not DNA testing had yet been requested, it would become an issue. It is also apparent that EP were being obstructive in releasing evidence and were having to be dragged into court in order for JB's legal representatives to obtain evidence. There is a pattern of obstructiveness on EP,s part.
     The Court of Appeal also found this behaviour by EP to be unusual, demanding an explanation from EP as to the circumstances. Funnily enough neither EP nor SB claimed that it was routine procedure. Claims that this "may" have been somehow routine are supported by no evidence at all.
     
   

This is untrue! Pitchfork was convicted due to DNA profiling in 1988 so is WAS available. You keep saying that EP ignored a court order but won't clarify if such a court order was for the items that were destroyed and if a request was made by the Bamber team to test such items for DNA?

The CCRC demanded an explanation? Well, they must have been satisfied with the explanation given that nothing has come of it!
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Offline notsure

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2017, 12:54:PM »
Forgive me, but it's really of no moment -one way or the other- what is proven to you........OR me! As far as the police are concerned, the case HAS been proven. End of story.
NOW, let's have a look at this S(pecial)n B(ranch) thing. It's been bandied about this forum, certainly since I joined, I suspect, now, as lending added weight to the innocent side by adding 'something' mysterious and secret -there was a suggestion, at one moment, that Jeremy's biological surname was really Windsor, although a loyal employee had been coerced into allowing his name to be put on the birth certificate!!!! ergo, SB had been tailing him (and his family by adoption) since his birth!!!!!
When we reevaluate what SB means, it seems highly likely that each member probably spends their working day doing the every day duties that every day police persons do. When something comes up which requires their specialist skills, they reform to become SB. Caroline raises an excellent point. It CAN'T be possible -or it wasn't until the storing of information became digital- to hold on to reams of typewritten information. It's not unreasonable to believe that every so often it was necessary to have a mass clear out of ALL stored information. I find it unbelievable in the extreme to accept that "A" member of SB was employed JUST to destroy information pertaining to the Bamber case.

Hey Jane, can't follow you're first paragraph sorry.

I don't know anything about the special branch coming in but I do find it incredulous that a high profile case which has had tv shows made on it, was under appeal review many times, etc etc that a police officer didn't know that theses docs/evidence should have been left well alone. Come on Jane even in the dark ages there should have been some sort of system that would work, maybe a wacking great sticky label on it which had the words do not destroy on it would have worked.

Nope sorry don't buy your take on this st all

Online Roch

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2017, 12:59:PM »
The CCRC demanded an explanation? Well, they must have been satisfied with the explanation given that nothing has come of it!

What's to stop the CCRC from always being satisfied with the explanation?

What's to stop the IPCC from always being satisfied with the explanation? 

How do we know that all these agencies don't simply back each other up?  Are the police going to reply to the CCRC and say 'oh yes... we realised the case against Jeremy Bloggs would unravel if we didn't destroy this evidence'?

Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #80 on: April 05, 2017, 01:03:PM »
What's to stop the CCRC from always being satisfied with the explanation?

What's to stop the IPCC from always being satisfied with the explanation? 

How do we know that all these agencies don't simply back each other up?  Are the police going to reply to the CCRC and say 'oh yes... we realised the case against Jeremy Bloggs would unravel if we didn't destroy this evidence'?

If they're always satisfied, why ask for an explanation? If there was something sinister, they would never have admitted to  SB officer being involved. Yes, he may have been a SB officer but that doesn't mean the destruction of these items was ordered by SB. See below ....
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Online Roch

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #81 on: April 05, 2017, 01:09:PM »
If they're always satisfied, why ask for an explanation?


Effectively to pay lip service.  If their level of scrutiny ends with the first or second brush off by the police force... it's not a very effective level of scrutiny is it?  And the police forces must know this. 

If there was something sinister, they would never have admitted to  SB officer being involved. Yes, he may have been a SB officer but that doesn't mean the destruction of these items was ordered by SB. See below ....

Personally I haven't argued for the 'Special Branch' case - so I cannot really disagree with you here.  It's possible that SB has been given too much attention in this instance.  However, I could be wrong.

Offline Adam

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2017, 01:28:PM »
The suggestion that EP defied a court order in 1996 has to be dismissed.

No source has ever be supplied. Posters just posting it happened is not enough.
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Offline JackiePreece

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2017, 01:39:PM »
Forgive me, but it's really of no moment -one way or the other- what is proven to you........OR me! As far as the police are concerned, the case HAS been proven. End of story.
NOW, let's have a look at this S(pecial)n B(ranch) thing. It's been bandied about this forum, certainly since I joined, I suspect, now, as lending added weight to the innocent side by adding 'something' mysterious and secret -there was a suggestion, at one moment, that Jeremy's biological surname was really Windsor, although a loyal employee had been coerced into allowing his name to be put on the birth certificate!!!! ergo, SB had been tailing him (and his family by adoption) since his birth!!!!!
When we reevaluate what SB means, it seems highly likely that each member probably spends their working day doing the every day duties that every day police persons do. When something comes up which requires their specialist skills, they reform to become SB. Caroline raises an excellent point. It CAN'T be possible -or it wasn't until the storing of information became digital- to hold on to reams of typewritten information. It's not unreasonable to believe that every so often it was necessary to have a mass clear out of ALL stored information. I find it unbelievable in the extreme to accept that "A" member of SB was employed JUST to destroy information pertaining to the Bamber case.

Here you go again Jane

The case has been proven

Your words, what exactly are you doing here?

For many people the case is not proven and this goes for Ewen Smith of the CCRC

There are genuine people on this forum who care about justice in our country and if you think there is nothing wrong with the handling of this case or mistreatment of evidence in this case I feel very sorry for you

One day one of your family maybe found guilty of something you believe they have not done but you will accept the verdict as proven



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Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2017, 02:50:PM »


Effectively to pay lip service.  If their level of scrutiny ends with the first or second brush off by the police force... it's not a very effective level of scrutiny is it?  And the police forces must know this. 

Personally I haven't argued for the 'Special Branch' case - so I cannot really disagree with you here.  It's possible that SB has been given too much attention in this instance.  However, I could be wrong.

Well, we don't know the reason that was given so we can't really say it was a brush off, a conspiracy or anything else. I admit that it 'seems' (on the surface) strange that SB were involved but too many times claims of conspiracy have dissolved and haven't held up to scrutiny. Unless someone can show evidence that court orders related to the evidence in  question and/or that Bamber intended to have them tested for DNA purposes, this argument is a lot of points that are just unrelated and there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation why a SB officer was involved.
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Offline lookout

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2017, 03:29:PM »
When blood had been discovered on the silencer,why wasn't JB arrested at that point ?? " Evidence " was already there-----------a smoking gun ? ( no pun intended )

Offline Caroline

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2017, 04:07:PM »
When blood had been discovered on the silencer,why wasn't JB arrested at that point ?? " Evidence " was already there-----------a smoking gun ? ( no pun intended )

Because they have to put a case together.
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Offline Adam

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2017, 04:11:PM »
When blood had been discovered on the silencer,why wasn't JB arrested at that point ?? " Evidence " was already there-----------a smoking gun ? ( no pun intended )

The silencer was sent away for testing. He was arrested after they got the results.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 04:13:PM by Adam »
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Online Roch

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2017, 04:17:PM »
The silencer was sent away for testing. He was arrested after they got the results.

Yest it was in several places at once on a number of occasions  :))

Offline buddy

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Re: DNA Testing In the 80's
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2017, 04:24:PM »
The silencer was handled by multiple people, and should never have been used as evidence.
Jeremy was stitched by Jones the family, and Mugford.