No One Would Stage A Two Shot Suicide And Then Pass A Polygraph? Would They?

[David1819]

So now this guy is innocent also? 

Certainly a possibility. I won't be losing any sleep over it tho.

[Caroline]

aren't they arguing that this type of gun can fire twice accidentally or something like that?

"Jeffery Crump, who was employed at the Michigan State Police Crime Lab as a firearms examiner, testified as an expert in firearms. He testified that he test-fired the weapon that caused Sandra's death. He test-fired the gun six times. The gun worked properly. He also tested the trigger pull and found it to require between 8-1/4 and 8-1/2 pounds of weight to get the trigger to pull. The factory specifications for this type of firearm are between eight and ten pounds. This particular firearm required the same weight for initial and subsequent trigger pulls.
Bradford Bacheldor [sic] also testified for the prosecution as an expert witness in firearms. He testified that the gun was test-fired by his son and appeared to be functioning normally. He also testified that the number of safety mechanisms inherent in this firearm to prevent accidental firing appeared to be functioning properly.

[notsure]

Yeah I read that but I Google it and they were saying g that the gun could fire te ice. Can't postlink pad won't let me. 

[Caroline]

Certainly a possibility. I won't be losing any sleep over it tho.

No GSR on the victims hands, Blood spatter fund on gun, but none on the victims hands

Doctor Cohle stated that "The first shot would would have rended her unconscious but that respiration may have continued for a bit". He had spatter on his shirt so may have thought she was still alive so shot her again.

The gun had safety mechanisms that prevented accidental firing and she couldn't have shot herself twice because the first incapacitated her.

Rod Englert testified that he observed a high-velocity mist pattern of blood spatter on the fitted sheet and pillows. He also observed a void in the pattern consistent with something having been present at the time the shots were fired to intercept the high velocity mist and prevent it from being deposited on the sheet.
He testified that the void was consistent with someone firing the fatal shots while standing behind Sandra. That person would have intercepted some of the high velocity blood spatter which would otherwise have landed on the sheets. He found evidence of blood spatter on both sides of the gun. He concluded that the absence of blood spatter on Sandra's hands indicated that she did not fire the gun.
Englert examined Petitioner's clothing for evidence of high-velocity blood mist. Using a magnifying glass and high-intensity lights, he located numerous spots on Petitioner's shirt that appeared to be blood. He testified these spots were consistent with high-velocity blood mist. He testified that these spots were inconsistent with coughed or expirated blood.
An expert in DNA analysis, Shawn Weiss, testified that three of the spots identified by Englert as high-velocity blood spatter matched Sandra's DNA on all eight genetic markers tested. He testified that the probability of randomly selecting an unrelated individual with a DNA statistic consistent with Sandra's on this stain is one in 16.6 million for the Caucasian population.

Lots of forensics there!

Point is, it's been claimed that no one would stage a two shot death as a suicide ...... well, they did and they also passed a polygraph - TWICE!

[lookout]

I think it's called a hair trigger ? Being a comparatively new rifle it would have been sensitive in the semi-automatic department.

PS,believe it or not I've just been helping out a paramedic with a neighbour who had chest-pains.She's now gone to hospital.

[Caroline]

Yeah I read that but I Google it and they were saying g that the gun could fire te ice. Can't postlink pad won't let me. 

He said the gun malfunctioned - but he claimed not to be there when she was shot. It was tested and found to be in perfect working order.

You might find this interesting https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qClDKpG_vikC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=David+Duyst,+gun&source=bl&ots=0N0W9GGikK&sig=5NPfpA_zUw6KDGlyeQxxsYwf6Vo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidvNDi8erSAhVHyWMKHevsAsEQ6AEIYzAN#v=onepage&q=David%20Duyst%2C%20gun&f=false - OH! And he had recently insured his wife and made sure a 'suicide' pay out was included.

[Caroline]

I think it's called a hair trigger ? Being a comparatively new rifle it would have been sensitive in the semi-automatic department.

PS,believe it or not I've just been helping out a paramedic with a neighbour who had chest-pains.She's now gone to hospital.

The gun didn't have a hair trigger and it wasn't a rifle and found to be in perfect working order. It had safety mechanisms built in to stop it from accidentally firing.

 

[notsure]

I think it's called a hair trigger ? Being a comparatively new rifle it would have been sensitive in the semi-automatic department.

PS,believe it or not I've just been helping out a paramedic with a neighbour who had chest-pains.She's now gone to hospital.

oh blimey lookout poor you and poor neighbour. I'm useless in an emergency like that, I just want to run away when something like that happens.

[lookout]

oh blimey lookout poor you and poor neighbour. I'm useless in an emergency like that, I just want to run away when something like that happens.

I'm quite used to it, and because the paramedic knocked,I went in to her. Not everyone's cup of tea.
I was getting up at all hours before her husband went into a home with dementia,when he used to knock 

[David1819]

No GSR on the victims hands, Blood spatter fund on gun, but none on the victims hands

Doctor Cohle stated that "The first shot would would have rended her unconscious but that respiration may have continued for a bit". He had spatter on his shirt so may have thought she was still alive so shot her again.

The gun had safety mechanisms that prevented accidental firing and she couldn't have shot herself twice because the first incapacitated her.

Rod Englert testified that he observed a high-velocity mist pattern of blood spatter on the fitted sheet and pillows. He also observed a void in the pattern consistent with something having been present at the time the shots were fired to intercept the high velocity mist and prevent it from being deposited on the sheet.
He testified that the void was consistent with someone firing the fatal shots while standing behind Sandra. That person would have intercepted some of the high velocity blood spatter which would otherwise have landed on the sheets. He found evidence of blood spatter on both sides of the gun. He concluded that the absence of blood spatter on Sandra's hands indicated that she did not fire the gun.
Englert examined Petitioner's clothing for evidence of high-velocity blood mist. Using a magnifying glass and high-intensity lights, he located numerous spots on Petitioner's shirt that appeared to be blood. He testified these spots were consistent with high-velocity blood mist. He testified that these spots were inconsistent with coughed or expirated blood.
An expert in DNA analysis, Shawn Weiss, testified that three of the spots identified by Englert as high-velocity blood spatter matched Sandra's DNA on all eight genetic markers tested. He testified that the probability of randomly selecting an unrelated individual with a DNA statistic consistent with Sandra's on this stain is one in 16.6 million for the Caucasian population.

Lots of forensics there!

Point is, it's been claimed that no one would stage a two shot death as a suicide ...... well, they did and they also passed a polygraph - TWICE!

How do you explain this?

Tim, the 11-year-old son of the Duysts, testified that the evening before his mother's death she seemed to be her usual self. He and his brother shared an upstairs bedroom; his parents' bedroom was on the main floor. When he woke up on the morning of his mother's death, he heard two loud noises that sounded to him like two loud piano cords. About ten seconds after he heard the loud noises, he heard his father move from the family room, through the kitchen and hallway and into the bedroom. He heard his father open the bedroom door forcefully.

The more I read about this case. The more this conviction seems like a case of prosecutors with tunnel vision because of two gunshot wounds.

[notsure]

Well I was thinking the same david but then you have the letter she left, would she have set him up? Evidence poi ts to guilt imo

[David1819]

Well I was thinking the same david but then you have the letter she left, would she have set him up? Evidence poi ts to guilt imo

Tim's testimony has the alleged killer in another room at the time the shots happened.

Are you saying he quickly tip toed away after the second he fired the gun. Then rushed back hoping that Tim would hear all this in order to alibi himself? 

[Steve_uk]

The first shot was instantly fatal. Thus no need what so ever for the alleged killer to fire at someone already dead. After all 'forensics is not your thing' 

Was he an expert in ballistics? Maybe he wanted to be sure she was dead. Would Sheila have died with just the one bullet or did Bamber feel anxious that she might live? Both men used the mental frailties of the women as subterfuge for suicide and both killed for money. Why did Sandra continue to live in the same house as a man who had tried to kill her with an axe? They do say truth is stranger than fiction.  https://youtu.be/3u_wiEyfdF0

[Caroline]

Tim's testimony has the alleged killer in another room at the time the shots happened.

Are you saying he quickly tip toed away after the second he fired the gun. Then rushed back hoping that Tim would hear all this in order to alibi himself? 

People can be mistaken - however, the blood spatter on his clothes and the gap on the sheet prove his was in the room when she shot.

How come circumstantial evidence weighs higher to you for this guy (although all the forensics are stacked against him) but for Bamber you argue the opposite?

[Caroline]

The first shot was instantly fatal. Thus no need what so ever for the alleged killer to fire at someone already dead. After all 'forensics is not your thing' 

No it wasn't " Dr. Cohle determined that the first bullet wound would have rendered Sandra unconscious, and, although heartbeat and respiration may have continued for a bit, she was essentially dead."