Why didn't Nevill leave WHF's front door ajar for Bamber & co ?

[Bill Robertson]

The front door was locked from inside. Bamber & the police didn't have a front door key anyway. So not much point in Nevill ringing both if neither can enter.

Nevill was also expecting the police to arrive. An open door would at least give Bews & Jones the option of entering & assisting Nevill. Everyone staying outside for hours was not why Nevill made 3am phone calls.

It is an interesting question as to why Nevill did not escape himself or open the doors. One possibility is that Nevill made his calls for help before he realised how serious the situation was and then after seeing or hearing Sheila firing the rifle he realised that Jeremy would be in danger if he entered the farmhouse. So maybe Nevill locked the doors to protect Jeremy.

[notsure]

See, I rather see the relatives as fighting to retain something they'd ALL worked their guts out for to prevent it all falling into the hands of a usurper whose only interest in it was what he could make on it.

Sorry only just catching up on this thread. Jane that is a very sad statement to make, that in my mind proves the family were going to do everything they could to stitch jb up and were unlawful in doing so. In fact it was them that were worried they would lose everything that Neville had worked his guts out for.

your take on getting justice in your eyes goes against everything we fight for in this country. An open and honest justice system.

[Caroline]

Sorry only just catching up on this thread. Jane that is a very sad statement to make, that in my mind proves the family were going to do everything they could to stitch jb up and were unlawful in doing so. In fact it was them that were worried they would lose everything that Neville had worked his guts out for.

your take on getting justice in your eyes goes against everything we fight for in this country. An open and honest justice system.

The fact that they thought he killed everyone might have had something to do it it also.

[Caroline]

It is an interesting question as to why Nevill did not escape himself or open the doors. One possibility is that Nevill made his calls for help before he realised how serious the situation was and then after seeing or hearing Sheila firing the rifle he realised that Jeremy would be in danger if he entered the farmhouse. So maybe Nevill locked the doors to protect Jeremy.

The phone call is a problem for people supporting Jeremy. At 3am a phone call to someone is a serious situation, had he not thought it was serious, why make the call, if he did think it was serious, why not just call the police?

[Caroline]

Hi Susan-------the powers of persuasion which generated from the relatives towards EP was such that it couldn't have been ignored,but it doesn't help solve a crime and this crime to my mind was never solved in the way it should have been. There is far more to crime than hating and loathing someone who you've named as the perpetrator and EP's abysmal investigating didn't go far enough.
For them it couldn't have been any easier than if JB had stood there holding a rifle.
You can't turn a murder around to suit those concerned,which is what happened. JB hadn't given anyone the runaround,nor evaded/avoided,he remained up-front right the way through.

I can't see that those who support JB wouldn't have " seen through " anyone who would be pulling the wool either,as there are some well-read people among his supporters as well as those who've parted with well-earned cash in which to help Jeremy find justice. Their determination as well as JB's is to be applauded to see this through.

Policing has changed over the years as the margin for error has become less and less and the public are made more aware through the media that dishonesty within forces is no longer acceptable. However,there are still areas of the law which need to be looked into such as the CCRC and IPCC.

People keep saying that the relatives had power over the police - explain this power?

[Roch]

The fact that they thought he killed everyone might have had something to do it it also.

That doesn't excuse their actions or behaviour.  The police and pathologist knew Sheila had killed everyone.  The police were so convinced regarding the original evidence, that they expressed disgust towards the relatives' insinuations.   Funny that - since we are constantly told on here that there is no evidence.  So the police at the time were convinced to the extent that they were disgusted at the relatives insinuations - purely based on no evidence??

The relatives were told some of the reasons as to why the police held Sheila responsible, at a time when there was no need for police to conceal certain evidence: as they themselves were not actively pursuing JB as a suspect at that point, there was far less motivation to conceal any known evidence that linked Sheila.  Whatever the relatives were told, it was enough to convince two gun experts among them, that Sheila could have been responsible.

The problem with that scenario - is that it did not resolve the self-serving concerns and fears that the relatives harboured. 

[Roch]

Sorry only just catching up on this thread. Jane that is a very sad statement to make, that in my mind proves the family were going to do everything they could to stitch jb up and were unlawful in doing so. In fact it was them that were worried they would lose everything that Neville had worked his guts out for.

your take on getting justice in your eyes goes against everything we fight for in this country. An open and honest justice system.

That is also how I read it.

[Adam]

That doesn't excuse their actions or behaviour.  The police and pathologist knew Sheila had killed everyone.  The police were so convinced regarding the original evidence, that they expressed disgust towards the relatives' insinuations.   Funny that - since we are constantly told on here that there is no evidence.  So the police at the time were convinced to the extent that they were disgusted at the relatives insinuations - purely based on no evidence??

The relatives were told some of the reasons as to why the police held Sheila responsible, at a time when there was no need for police to conceal certain evidence: as they themselves were not actively pursuing JB as a suspect at that point, there was far less motivation to conceal any known evidence that linked Sheila.  Whatever the relatives were told, it was enough to convince two gun experts among them, that Sheila could have been responsible.

The problem with that scenario - is that it did not resolve the self-serving concerns and fears that the relatives harboured.

That's a good point. For guilters.

If Taff was able to give the relatives evidence of Sheila's guilt, why did the relatives continue their pursuit by going to Peter Simpson ?

[Caroline]

That doesn't excuse their actions or behaviour.  The police and pathologist knew Sheila had killed everyone.  The police were so convinced regarding the original evidence, that they expressed disgust towards the relatives' insinuations.   Funny that - since we are constantly told on here that there is no evidence.  So the police at the time were convinced to the extent that they were disgusted at the relatives insinuations - purely based on no evidence??

The relatives were told some of the reasons as to why the police held Sheila responsible, at a time when there was no need for police to conceal certain evidence: as they themselves were not actively pursuing JB as a suspect at that point, there was far less motivation to conceal any known evidence that linked Sheila.  Whatever the relatives were told, it was enough to convince two gun experts among them, that Sheila could have been responsible.

The problem with that scenario - is that it did not resolve the self-serving concerns and fears that the relatives harboured.

Convinced? This is quite a serious accusation Roch because it would mean the relatives KNEW Jeremy was innocent and so did the police, but they ALL framed him anyway? Certainly from your way of thinking, the relatives may have had a motive - but the police didn't, they would simply have acted unlawfully but for what reason?

[lookout]

People keep saying that the relatives had power over the police - explain this power?

Manipulation and control ! RWB had threatened EP with a letter to the " powers that be " that unless they dance to his tune,he'll report their incompetence.

[Adam]

Manipulation and control ! RWB had threatened EP with a letter to the " powers that be " that unless they dance to his tune,he'll report their incompetence.

A letter ? Ohhhh

Have you got a source for this ?

What incompetence would the relatives be aware of ?  They were not part of the investigation.

[lookout]

Were not the relatives responsible for JB's category to be heightened back to Cat A  ??

[Caroline]

Manipulation and control ! RWB had threatened EP with a letter to the " powers that be " that unless they dance to his tune,he'll report their incompetence.

Bouflour wasn't party to what went on inside or outside WHF. He had a few theories and was convinced the police had it wrong, his letter was obviously compelling enough for the police to look at the case again. However, if you're saying he had something over the police, you need to say what because if not, it' an empty theory!

[Caroline]

Were not the relatives responsible for JB's category to be heightened back to Cat A  ??

As victims they have a right to object.

[Roch]

As victims they have a right to object.

In an ordinary situation perhaps.  However...

Jeremy is a victim of the relatives.  The relatives are not a victim of Jeremy Bamber.