Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Steve_uk]

I think that the theory of Nevill being shot in the mouth for getting a call away is compelling, especially if it was only inches away.  If it was Jeremy who did the dirty deed, he had to make every shot count, having only one totally inappropriate weapon and one magazine, spiteful shots to the mouth don't come in that category,  I don't think a lust for money could cause that sort of hatred either.

Hoots

It was a combination of lust for money and indifference to the fate of all within. Jeremy had the opportunity to reload the gun, whereas Sheila's feebleness prevents her from accomplishing this task.

[guest1199]

Perhaps you were unaware that this particular area of Essex is renown for witchcraft? However, as Jeremy took so long to bring his plan to 'perfection' he probably had no need of its assistance. He could, for instance, have employed some Pavlov-type persuasion on the dogs -I wonder from whom came the information that they barked? I wonder who, of all who gave information re the daily routine of WHF, OTHER than Jeremy, was actually privy to the daily routine. Of course there were risks. NOTHING is risk free. Jeremy must have reckoned that he could handle any he could think of. Those he couldn't, he naturally wouldn't have worried about until it was too late. Rather like having to shoot Sheila twice, actually. It's possible, even in the real world to (almost) get away with murder.

No Jane, it's not risk it's imperative.

It's imperative that Jeremy gets past the dogs without them barking and alerting Nevill.
It's imperative that while Jeremy slaughters Nevill and June first, they die quietly, so that the twins don't wake up and run amok about the farmhouse looking for places to hide and ruin his pre-laid plan.
It's imperative that his completely unpredictable schizophrenic sister is going to be completely compliant and allow him to shoot her in the neck, making it look like suicide.

None of these can be achieved logically, it can only be done magically, which is idiotic, that's why JB didn't do the crime.

If any of these obligatory scenarios don't work it's a total F**K-up. JB has got to know these things in his strategy and still find go through with it anyway.  If you are suggesting he had contingency plans for the above, what were they?  You're the originator of the "pre-laid plan" but failed to define what it was.

Hoots

[Steve_uk]

No Jane, it's not risk it's imperative.

It's imperative that Jeremy gets past the dogs without them barking and alerting Nevill.
It's imperative that while Jeremy slaughters Nevill and June first, they die quietly, so that the twins don't wake up and run amok about the farmhouse looking for places to hide and ruin his pre-laid plan.
It's imperative that his completely unpredictable schizophrenic sister is going to be completely compliant and allow him to shoot her in the neck, making it look like suicide.

None of these can be achieved logically, it can only be done magically, which is idiotic, that's why JB didn't do the crime.

If any of these obligatory scenarios don't work it's a total F**K-up. JB has got to know these things in his strategy and still find go through with it anyway.  If you are suggesting he had contingency plans for the above, what were they?  You're the originator of the "pre-laid plan" but failed to define what it was.

Hoots

You have been selective of your reading of the book if you didn't follow Sheila's mental health those last few days. To suggest that a pair of dogs is going to stand in the way of a pre-conceived plan months in the making is absurd.

[Jane]

No Jane, it's not risk it's imperative.

It's imperative that Jeremy gets past the dogs without them barking and alerting Nevill.
It's imperative that while Jeremy slaughters Nevill and June first, they die quietly, so that the twins don't wake up and run amok about the farmhouse looking for places to hide and ruin his pre-laid plan.
It's imperative that his completely unpredictable schizophrenic sister is going to be completely compliant and allow him to shoot her in the neck, making it look like suicide.

None of these can be achieved logically, it can only be done magically, which is idiotic, that's why JB didn't do the crime.

If any of these obligatory scenarios don't work it's a total F**K-up. JB has got to know these things in his strategy and still find go through with it anyway.  If you are suggesting he had contingency plans for the above, what were they?  You're the originator of the "pre-laid plan" but failed to define what it was.

Hoots

These are things that are imperative to you because you have no control of them.

Jeremy may have devised a way to circumvent the dogs barking a la Pavlov.
He'd disabled the bedroom phone so no emergency call could be made.
What were the twins going to do, that he with a gun, couldn't have coped with, if they woke up?
Sheila could be controlled proxy of the twins.

NO pre-laid plan can be an absolute where human beings are involved.

[Caroline]

Let's try another one. In CAL's dramatized account she has JB killing June and Nevill first, while the kids slept on oblivious.  You can say what you like about the noise of the gun, perhaps it was minimal.  But when people die of multiple GSW's it's doubtful if they do it all quietly, there may have be screaming, shouting, crying and pleading going on.

In the real world, with real world logic Jeremy would have realised during his approach to WHF that the twins could  be alerted, running about the house looking for places to hide while all this was going on, but no, jeremy had all sussed out and included sorcery in his pre-laid plan (remember that one Jane J, the pre-laid plan that needs no definition), the twins slept on oblivious, and were compliant enough to die the same way.

Jeremy used the same sorcery on the dogs who despite the quote below from CAL's book didn't even offer a bark to alert Nevill who in the real world would have found Jeremy climbing through the window with a shotgun barrel pressed against his nose. In the real world it was Sheila who did the dirty deed, but this isn't the real world is it?

It's the fantasy world of of the pro-guilt argument where cunning pre-laid plans and sorcery exist, or perhaps Nevill and June decided that it was best to die quietly in their agony rather than wake the twins.

From CAL's book:

"Both dogs were habitually alert to intruders. Crispy was variously described as ‘very noisy’, ‘lively and always nipping at people’s ankles’ with a ‘high-pitched yappy bark’ that he used to good effect on callers. Bruce would also bark when anyone approached the house".

Hoots

My dog goes mad at anyone passing the house - never barks when I or my partner come home - no matter what time.

[JackieD]

Perhaps you were unaware that this particular area of Essex is renown for witchcraft? However, as Jeremy took so long to bring his plan to 'perfection' he probably had no need of its assistance. He could, for instance, have employed some Pavlov-type persuasion on the dogs -I wonder from whom came the information that they barked? I wonder who, of all who gave information re the daily routine of WHF, OTHER than Jeremy, was actually privy to the daily routine. Of course there were risks. NOTHING is risk free. Jeremy must have reckoned that he could handle any he could think of. Those he couldn't, he naturally wouldn't have worried about until it was too late. Rather like having to shoot Sheila twice, actually. It's possible, even in the real world to (almost) get away with murder.

You have obviously forgotton about the infamous Barbara Wilson

[Jane]

You have obviously forgotton about the infamous Barbara Wilson

That would be she who seemed not to know her a()e from her elbow?

[JackieD]

That would be she who seemed not to know her a()e from her elbow?

Perhaps you would like to elaborate?

Are you talking about now or over 30 years ago

[Jane]

Perhaps you would like to elaborate?

Are you talking about now or over 30 years ago

I'm talking a 360 degree turnaround.

[guest1199]

My dog goes mad at anyone passing the house - never barks when I or my partner come home - no matter what time.

Well, I'm not talking about your dog.  I've pasted the relevant paragraph from CAL's book upthread, it's pretty clear on the behaviour of both dogs. 

[guest1199]

Jeremy may have devised a way to circumvent the dogs barking a la Pavlov.

Really? Tell me more.

Hoots

[guest1199]

Sheila could be controlled proxy of the twins.

Really? Tell me more.

Hoots

[guest1199]

What were the twins going to do, that he with a gun, couldn't have coped with, if they woke up?

Ah! the old reversal of responsibility trick.

Well after all the noise that those die-hards Nevill and June made in their protracted demise, Jeremy now looks into their room only to find that they are not there and have ran away and hid somewhere.  Surely Jeremy had all this possibility worked out in his pre-laid plan.  I didn't originate the pre-laid plan theory, you did, you must know it's contents.

Hoots

[Caroline]

Well, I'm not talking about your dog.  I've pasted the relevant paragraph from CAL's book upthread, it's pretty clear on the behaviour of both dogs.

With strangers!

[Caroline]

Really? Tell me more.

Hoots

Simple really - he was familiar to them!