Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[susan]

I'm struggling to debate with an open mind.

Roch you are not alone in this respect most posters on here don't have an open mind.

[Steve_uk]

Well Ok. lets try another one.  There is this from the kindle location 4781 of CAL'S book referring to a conversation between JB and JM.

"‘I’ve had a wonderful day at work,’ she told him. ‘How was your day?’ ‘As best as can be expected,’ he replied, explaining that he had spent the entire day inside the tractor with the sun beating down. ‘You sound pissed off,’ she said. Jeremy told her, ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’" 

I've often wondered what was so special about the night of 6th to the 7th of August 1985.  Was it the last time that the family would all be together, would there never be another opportunity like that particular night to commit the crime?

Hoots!

No because there had been a lightning strike which gave him a pretext to move the telephones without arousing suspicion, Nevill's portable brick-type telephone was out of order, and Sheila was in a lethargic state he would have noticed when she and the twins came into the fields to chat to him. Was it the twins' idea to go out and speak to Uncle Jeremy and see the new tractor in operation..

[Jane]

I'm struggling to debate with an open mind.

I'm not certain that it's possible, if one feels passionately, to debate with a 100% open mind. I said I had an open mind when I joined, but quickly became persuaded of innocence. It was when I realized I was being told lies, that I started to question my beliefs. Even then, 'conversion' didn't come easily or quickly. It was quite a painful process.

[Adam]

Hmmm! That's interesting, both you and Caroline have mentioned JB having a "plan" and a "pre-laid plan".  So if you were JB sitting on the tractor that afternoon what would your plan be?

Hoots!

The plan was to kill everyone. Then attempt to frame Sheila.

But that's just a guess.

[Jane]

Hmmm! That's interesting, both you and Caroline have mentioned JB having a "plan" and a "pre-laid plan".  So if you were JB sitting on the tractor that afternoon what would your plan be?

Hoots!

D'ya know, TomG, I have no difficulties with idling away time with fantasies, but the slaughter of my family has never been one of them! I can't begin -OR, rather, I don't want- to imagine what is someone's mind set if it leads them to think of murder.

[Caroline]

Hmmm! That's interesting, both you and Caroline have mentioned JB having a "plan" and a "pre-laid plan".  So if you were JB sitting on the tractor that afternoon what would your plan be?

Hoots!

My plan would be to go to the pub after work - you see, I'm not a murderer.

[Adam]

Well Ok. lets try another one.  There is this from the kindle location 4781 of CAL'S book referring to a conversation between JB and JM.

"‘I’ve had a wonderful day at work,’ she told him. ‘How was your day?’ ‘As best as can be expected,’ he replied, explaining that he had spent the entire day inside the tractor with the sun beating down. ‘You sound pissed off,’ she said. Jeremy told her, ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’" 

I've often wondered what was so special about the night of 6th to the 7th of August 1985.  Was it the last time that the family would all be together, would there never be another opportunity like that particular night to commit the crime?

Hoots!

What was special ?

Everyone was at WHF. For a few days.

Bamber had been to WHF that night for supper. Probably a rare appearance.

Bamber had loaded the rifle.

The bike was at his cottage.

He saw Sheila was non responsive & under Haloperidol.

Bamber had plucked up the courage after having to sit on his tractor all day.

Bamber had rang Julie for the first time in 3 days. 



He could have done it tomorrow. But had decided 'tonights the night'.

[guest1199]

D'ya know, TomG, I have no difficulties with idling away time with fantasies, but the slaughter of my family has never been one of them! I can't begin -OR, rather, I don't want- to imagine what is someone's mind set if it leads them to think of murder.

I'm looking for a strategy at this point not a motive.  If you like to fantasize as you say, imagine the murders have not taken place, now what is JB's strategy according to your "pre-laid plan"?

Hoots!

[guest1199]

My plan would be to go to the pub after work - you see, I'm not a murderer.

And here's me thinking I was the piss-taker!

Hoots!

[Adam]

I'm looking for a strategy at this point not a motive.  If you like to fantasize as you say, imagine the murders have not taken place, now what is JB's strategy according to your "pre-laid plan"?

Hoots!

To kill everyone at the perfect & only possible time - while they are asleep.

Stage the scene.

Then ring the police & insinuate Sheila.

But that is just a guess.

[Jane]

I'm looking for a strategy at this point not a motive.  If you like to fantasize as you say, imagine the murders have not taken place, now what is JB's strategy according to your "pre-laid plan"?

Hoots!

OK. I imagine the fantasy would always have been that an accident would befall them all in the same place. A car accident, perhaps? He may have toyed with such an idea. He certainly appears to have briefly voiced thoughts of a major fire and, with a 'loan' of them from Julie, sleeping pills. He certainly seems, at some point, to have become aware of how serious was Sheila's mental condition. He'd been to the party that weekend. Had been in Sheila's company. He and Julie had taken Sheila home -we've never been made privy to the conversation which took place during that journey. MIGHT something have been said then that pushed his fantasy up a gear? COULD he have realized that Sheila's mental state changed the possibility of the fantasy, into reality? All he'd then have needed to do to refine it, was to work out the best way to do it to make it appear as if Sheila had.

[Caroline]

I'm looking for a strategy at this point not a motive.  If you like to fantasize as you say, imagine the murders have not taken place, now what is JB's strategy according to your "pre-laid plan"?

Hoots!

To kill the family, blame it on his sister and inherit the cash, get rid of the farm and live the high life!

[guest1199]

OK. I imagine the fantasy would always have been that an accident would befall them all in the same place. A car accident, perhaps? He may have toyed with such an idea. He certainly appears to have briefly voiced thoughts of a major fire and, with a 'loan' of them from Julie, sleeping pills. He certainly seems, at some point, to have become aware of how serious was Sheila's mental condition. He'd been to the party that weekend. Had been in Sheila's company. He and Julie had taken Sheila home -we've never been made privy to the conversation which took place during that journey. MIGHT something have been said then that pushed his fantasy up a gear? COULD he have realized that Sheila's mental state changed the possibility of the fantasy, into reality? All he'd then have needed to do to refine it, was to work out the best way to do it to make it appear as if Sheila had.

So, did he make his way to WHF that evening with that as his strategy and pre-laid plan?

[guest1199]

To kill the family, blame it on his sister and inherit the cash, get rid of the farm and live the high life!

If Jeremy is going to massacre his family he has to know exactly how he's going to do this.  How not to alert Bruce, how to stop Crispy barking at him as he climbed in and alerting Nevil who would waste no time in coming down stairs to investigate with JB finding a shotgun pressed against his nose. What order he is going to eliminate each of his family etc. That sort of thing.  I'm getting baloney so far!

Hoots!

[Jane]

If Jeremy is going to massacre his family he has to know exactly how he's going to do this.  How not to alert Bruce, how to stop Crispy barking at him as he climbed in and alerting Nevil who would waste no time in coming down stairs to investigate with JB finding a shotgun pressed against his nose. What order he is going to eliminate each of his family etc. That sort of thing.  I'm getting baloney so far!

Hoots!

Why are you assuming that he DIDN'T know all that he felt was necessary for him know to accomplish it? You're viewing this from the only place you know, which is your own frame of reference. Jeremy's was quite different from your own.