Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Adam]

So you're saying that it was standard practice for a police surgeon the conclude one GSW to all the victims even though they had been riddled with bullets?

I'm not saying this. Roch is.

Although he's also leaving the 'door open' that EP shot Sheila with the murder weapon after she was prononced dead.

[Adam]

TomG, is this the biggest issue for you in CAL's book ?

That one expert mistakedly wrote that Sheila had one gun shot wound when prononced dead.

Thought there would have been more & better things in a big unbiased book for conspiracy theorists.

[Caroline]

Caroline.  At 8.44am Dr Craig makes it quite clear Sheila had one GSW regardless of when the first shot was fired.  It has been suggested by others that JB inflicted the second shot.  I am pointing out that JB couldn't have inflicted the second shot when he was outside with the cops.  So who fired the second shot after 8.44am when there was only one GSW? 

Hoots!

No, he said he only NOTICED one shot not that she only had one shot.

[Roch]

There's no way the murder weapon would have discharged accidentally. Had Sheila been alive and resisted the Police would have simply claimed self-defence. Their boss DCI Taff Jones was content with a guilty Sheila anyway, so where on earth does the cover up start?

I think it starts with vultures who were used to getting their own way and were over-familiar with some police officers while disdainful of others.  Perhaps it started by accident when the police decided to not be totally truthful about what happened in the farmhouse.  Perhaps Jeremy Bamber lost any sympathy that he once had from among the original officers - because of his behaviour or his alleged / perceived behaviour.  Maybe it's a lot easier to send a shit down for something he hasn't done, as opposed to an angel. 

[guest1199]

Roch answered this in post 343. Did you miss it ?

If you don't agree with Roch, then feel free to believe EP shot Sheila with the murder weapon. After she had been prononced dead.

My point was a response to Caroline.  I would expect Caroline to defend her own post.  It might be a good idea to let her respond as appropriate.

Hoots

[guest1199]

No, he said he only NOTICED one shot not that she only had one shot.

How would he have failed to notice the other one?  It was only a couple of inches away?

Hoots!

[Steve_uk]

I think it starts with vultures who were used to getting their own way and were over-familiar with some police officers while disdainful of others.  Perhaps it started by accident when the police decided to not be totally truthful about what happened in the farmhouse.  Perhaps Jeremy Bamber lost any sympathy that he once had from among the original officers - because of his behaviour or his alleged / perceived behaviour.  Maybe it's a lot easier to send a shit down for something he hasn't done, as opposed to an angel.

You mean the angel who burgled his own family's caravan park and went for richer pickings? Had Police shot a dying Sheila by mistake they would have claimed self-defence. There was certainly no reason to cover it up because Sheila being the culprit tallied with their boss DCI Taff Jones' point of view.

[Caroline]

OK.  Do you agree that if she was shot in an 'alleged struggle' (as a cover for having been shot accidentally), the police at the scene (when it actually occurred), would have likely experienced stress, as to how to proceed?  Especially given that it was the alleged murder weapon.  Stress that could impact upon decision making - which was effectively on the hoof.

I do think some police will have baulked at the idea of framing Jeremy Bamber.  However disconcerted that individual officers may have felt, bar raising their concerns internally - what other options do they have (options that will not effectively destroy their career?).  It was the ACC who sanctioned the investigation of Bamber - therefore the pressure was created from the top of the command structure.

No, I don't agree at all - it would have been accidental and I certainly don't think it would warrant the framing of Bamber. Yes, there might have been an enquiry but given the circumstances, a killer was killed during a siege situation, no careers needed to have been ruined. However, if it is hard for you to believe that Bamber would try and pass off two shots to Sheila as suicide, why would you believe the police would?

However the two shots happened, Bamber would have little choice in going ahead with his plan as you say what other option would he have'?

[guest1199]

TomG, is this the biggest issue for you in CAL's book ?

That one expert mistakedly wrote that Sheila had one gun shot wound when prononced dead.

Thought there would have been more & better things in a big unbiased book for conspiracy theorists.

There are other considerations with CAL's book.  How can you conclude emphatically that Dr. Craig made a mistake?

Hoots!

[Roch]

How would he have failed to notice the other one?  It was only a couple of inches away?

Hoots!

Either he was extremely hyperopic or sheila sustained a second GSW after he had visited her corpse.

[Jane]

No, I don't agree at all - it would have been accidental and I certainly don't think it would warrant the framing of Bamber. Yes, there might have been an enquiry but given the circumstances, a killer was killed during a siege situation, no careers needed to have been ruined. However, if it is hard for you to believe that Bamber would try and pass off two shots to Sheila as suicide, why would you believe the police would?

However the two shots happened, Bamber would have little choice in going ahead with his plan as you say what other option would he have'?

Aha!!! Maybe THAT'S why he accused the police of doing the shooting? He was trying to find a convincing reason for the two shots to Sheila?

[Caroline]

How would he have failed to notice the other one?  It was only a couple of inches away?

Hoots!

Not that I can answer for him and I certainly wasn't there BUT, we don't know what angle he was looking from, whether he was bent over her or how close he was. He said he only noticed one shot and I don't think anyone is suggesting that she received the second shot after the doc left. Or maybe they are? Good luck with that particular theory! 

[Adam]

My point was a response to Caroline.  I would expect Caroline to defend her own post.  It might be a good idea to let her respond as appropriate.

Hoots

You either believe Roch. That it was practice for an expert to say every dead body had been shot once.

Believe the expert made a mistake & there were two gun shots.

Believe the expert was correct & EP shot Sheila with the murder weapon after she had been prononced dead.

Which is it ?

[guest1199]

Either he was extremely hyperopic or sheila sustained a second GSW after he had visited her corpse.

How on earth would Sheila have sustained a second GSW if she was already dead for some hours as Caroline alleges?

Hoots!

[Caroline]

I think it starts with vultures who were used to getting their own way and were over-familiar with some police officers while disdainful of others.  Perhaps it started by accident when the police decided to not be totally truthful about what happened in the farmhouse.  Perhaps Jeremy Bamber lost any sympathy that he once had from among the original officers - because of his behaviour or his alleged / perceived behaviour.  Maybe it's a lot easier to send a shit down for something he hasn't done, as opposed to an angel.

Perceived? Trying to sell dodgy pictures of his recently dead sister wasn't perceived. Burning his parents clothes in the farm fire pit wasn't perceived. Leaving the running of the farm to PE and running off to enjoy himself wasn't perceived. Jumping into Sheila's flat at the earliest opp wasn't perceived. Bagging up the twins belongings in bin bags for Colin to pick up wasn't perceived. His whole behaviour was not that of a grieving son - quite the opposite.