Sandra Leans book "No Smoke" should be re-vised or withdrawn

[Stephanie]

when are you going to answer the question about the seamen why are you afraid to answer this question.

You come here making false and malicious allegations about me and you want me to answer YOUR questions?!

not suprising sine I mentioned fraud.

If I were you I'd stop telling blatant lies, or if you believe them to be true - report them to the police!

[JackiePreece]

Sandra

Thank you for your lengthy explanations regarding this thread

[nugnug]

i just asked was seamen ever mentioned in relations case theres a simple you can yes or no your perfectly aware what the truth is so why dont you just say yes or no.

[Stephanie]

Sandra

Thank you for your lengthy explanations regarding this thread

I wonder if Sandra is still up to her old tricks of contacting others to do her bidding for her.

I hope you also told her about Simon Hall!

Looks like you are repeating the Paul Harrisson fiasco Jackie  When will you learn

And why are you clearly obsessed with me (And Simon Hall)? I thought you said you are only interested in the Bamber case? Clearly you aren't being honest with us Jackie!

Further, 'IF' Sandra has indeed sent you a lengthy explanation behind the scenes  - this is further supporting evidence of manipulation and also brings into question her previous post where she states she talks to no one.

If she had nothing to hide she would post her lengthy explanation on the board; presuming of course what you say is true. What good does she think it will do in your hands? What does she think you are going to do with it? Make yet more subtle threats; harass me further?

[nugnug]

so whats wrong with giving a yes or no answer then steph.

[guest7363]

I hope you also told her about Simon Hall!

Looks like you are repeating the Paul Harrisson fiasco Jackie  When will you learn

And why are you clearly obsessed with me (And Simon Hall)? I thought you said you are only interested in the Bamber case? Clearly you aren't being honest with us Jackie!

Further, 'IF' Sandra has indeed sent you a lengthy explanation behind the scenes  - this is further supporting evidence of manipulation and also brings into question her previous post where she states she talks to no one.

If she had nothing to hide she would post her lengthy explanation on the board; presuming of course what you say is true. What good does she think it will do in your hands? What does she think you are going to do with it? Make yet more subtle threats; harass me further?

Steph take my advice, just ignore, it's easy.  Where Nugnug gets Sailors from I don't know?  Your too good and been tthrough to much to get involved. 

[Jane]

Steph take my advice, just ignore, it's easy.  Where Nugnug gets Sailors from I don't know?  Your too good and been tthrough to much to get involved.

Don't know about Sailor's, Justice but I feel sure he was talking about 'swimmers'

[nugnug]

why do certan people go ape shit when you ask a simple question that warrants a simple yes no answer.

[sandra L]

...Further, 'IF' Sandra has indeed sent you a lengthy explanation behind the scenes  - this is further supporting evidence of manipulation and also brings into question her previous post where she states she talks to no one.

If she had nothing to hide she would post her lengthy explanation on the board; presuming of course what you say is true. What good does she think it will do in your hands? What does she think you are going to do with it? Make yet more subtle threats; harass me further?

Let's look at the reasoning here - IF I have sent a lengthy explanation "behind the scenes" - I didn't see that claimed anywhere. Even if it had been, I didn't - the mods will be able to confirm this.

Based on this "if," and without waiting for any supporting information whatsoever, Stephanie concludes that this is "further evidence of manipulation" and "brings into question" my previous post that I "talk to no-one."

So, firstly, it's not evidence of anything - it didn't happen. Secondly, in my previous post, I said "I'm not telling anyone anything" - how did that morph into I talk to no-one? I was explaining that I was asking questions!

Stephanie is, of course, entitled to think whatever she wants about me - that's none of my business. The way I see it, anyone who would take Stephanie's opinion of me, on a forum, at face value isn't worth my time or energy.

So, having got that out of the way, I'll go back to asking my questions -

When Simon confessed, was his mental state assessed? Did he know what he was saying, or why he was saying it? Did the details of the confession fit with the known facts of the case? He had already told a mental health nurse he was "going crazy" - what was the outcome of that? Did anyone ask why he felt he was going crazy, or wanted to scream all the time? Did anyone try to understand what was happening to make him feel like he was going crazy? It was stated at the inquest that he was using Spice - were any questions asked about how that might have impacted on his mental health?

For the record, at no point in this thread have I claimed that Simon Hall was innocent. I am asking questions about the circumstances of the confession and the confession itself

[JackiePreece]

Thank you Sandra for making that absolutely clear

You are absolutely entitled to post in this forum as anyone else

[lilly15]

Having read a lot about spice in prisons, it can totally change a person and turn them into monsters. I can understand the question being asked  and wonder just how the prison dealt with it

[sandra L]

Thank you Lilly15, I've started looking at the effects of Spice (variants of synthetic cannabinoids) or K2. The things that appear to come up again and again are hallucinations, suicidal and homicidal thoughts and actions, intense fear and paranoia.

If we take each of those effects individually, they would have a significant effect on someone who has been incarcerated for more than 10 years, without any reference to the "real world" they knew before. Cumulatively, it's not difficult to see how they might make an incarcerated person feel like they were "going crazy."

[lilly15]

I watched a documentary not long ago and it showed the prisoners taking spice, what they would do to get it and how they reacted afterwards. The effects were horrific and its making prisons out of control just like the people taking it

I guess the long term side effects are yet to be discovered.

[Stephanie]

Let's look at the reasoning here - IF I have sent a lengthy explanation "behind the scenes" - I didn't see that claimed anywhere. Even if it had been, I didn't - the mods will be able to confirm this.

Based on this "if," and without waiting for any supporting information whatsoever, Stephanie concludes that this is "further evidence of manipulation" and "brings into question" my previous post that I "talk to no-one."

So, firstly, it's not evidence of anything - it didn't happen. Secondly, in my previous post, I said "I'm not telling anyone anything" - how did that morph into I talk to no-one? I was explaining that I was asking questions!

Stephanie is, of course, entitled to think whatever she wants about me - that's none of my business. The way I see it, anyone who would take Stephanie's opinion of me, on a forum, at face value isn't worth my time or energy.

So, having got that out of the way, I'll go back to asking my questions -

When Simon confessed, was his mental state assessed? Did he know what he was saying, or why he was saying it? Did the details of the confession fit with the known facts of the case? He had already told a mental health nurse he was "going crazy" - what was the outcome of that? Did anyone ask why he felt he was going crazy, or wanted to scream all the time? Did anyone try to understand what was happening to make him feel like he was going crazy? It was stated at the inquest that he was using Spice - were any questions asked about how that might have impacted on his mental health?

For the record, at no point in this thread have I claimed that Simon Hall was innocent. I am asking questions about the circumstances of the confession and the confession itself

You have showed us all you are unable to be honest or indeed mature and your manipulation knows no bounds.

IF you have any genuine questions about Simon Hall, his confession or indeed death in custody, I suggest you take them up with the Hall family.

[sandra L]

His wife when he confessed - the only contact he had with the outside world. His wife when he died - the only contact he had with the outside world.

Was his mental health properly assessed in the lead up to the confession, the suicide attempt before the confession, or at the time of the confession itself?

These are not difficult questions. His family can't answer them because he was estranged from them at the times I'm talking about.